Mythic-EA shuts down Warhammer beta, tells players to come back later

[Kirth]

Instead of bringing up the Beta server and leaving it up 24/7 for free play, we’ll be moving forward with a series of focused Beta events set around a specific concept or two. These events will last anywhere from 3-10 days and will enable us to gather specific, detailed feedback from our Beta Community in regards to specific features and locations. We’ll be bringing the server down between each event for a day or two in order to prepare for the next focused event. This will also give us time to process the feedback we receive and incorporate it in future events

This is interesting. Looks like they are doing something right, rather then just letting people run wild and hope to get some useful feedback they are forcing testers to actually test what they want. 

[dr_dre]

The info they got from beta was to widely spread to be able to filter out the meaning/helpfull stuff.

This will certainly help to focus on what is wrong with area's and then copy it over the whole game with slight deviations on the topic.
Hence Im hoping this wont be a game where lvl 1-20 is the same as 21-40 etc :(

ah well maybe my view will change the moment they let me in aswell :)

[tazelbain]

Keeps are a mechanic that encourage people to hide from each other not fight each other.

Not in daoc they weren't.

Keeps and towers were the simplest way to find the other lot.

Sure people could find each other but they weren't fighting each other.

All open field means gank groups run riot.  Casuals and PUGs get together in the zerg,  and you're then forced to jump in the zerg if you don't have an A++ quality group or risk getting run down by a premade group or a zerg.  In Old Frontiers,  it wasn't uncommon to sit around your portal keep or border keep for extended periods of time waiting to put together a group.  Usually while spamming "Looking for <bottleneck necessary class> for rvr!"

Of course there needs to be control and objectives to give focus to RvR.  But when you put walls around them you shift the focus to amassing troops to attack or defend aka. standing around.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Fort_Aspenwood

Fort Aspenwood is a better model for how sieges should be structured.  Granted it is a battleground, so it would have to be significantly modified.  But the key point is that siege warfare is set up to be a back and forth process and players active during the whole thing.

I could armchair a whole system of how this would work in Open Field RvR, but does anyone care?

[Mrbloodworth]

Warhammer online Podcast #13

They talk about why they stopped beta, and what they are changing and whatnot becouse of player feedback.

[BigBlack]

Brief summary for those with no audio access at the moment? :)

[Rasix]

Warhammer online Podcast #13

They talk about why they stopped beta, and what they are changing and whatnot becouse of player feedback.

I don't know quite what to think of that. Part of me wants to be optimistic.  But really, this seems like a lot to try and pull off without pushing the game out to 2009. 

Brief summary for those with no audio access at the moment? :)

Two additions:

1. Talent trees for professions.
2. Adding persistent keeps, forts, and seige weaponry to open RVR.

Main crux being; OK we're listening to you and trying to make this game better.

[tazelbain]

Listening to people the people who want WAR to be DAoC2 is as big of mistake as listening to people who want WAR to have Open PvP.  Both groups are hardcore in their own way and are trying to pull the game away from mainstream appeal.

[Mrbloodworth]

Listening to people the people who want WAR to be DAoC2 is as big of mistake as listening to people who want WAR to have Open PvP.  Both groups are hardcore in their own way and are trying to pull the game away from mainstream appeal.

Not sure how you got to that conclusion, i enjoyed the podcast and what it talked about..

[shiznitz]

Listening to people the people who want WAR to be DAoC2 is as big of mistake as listening to people who want WAR to have Open PvP.  Both groups are hardcore in their own way and are trying to pull the game away from mainstream appeal.

It is clear to me that Mythic has alread conceded internally that WAR will not likely be a 1 million+ subscriber game so they are already working the "retention" angle in beta. I find it fascinating.

[Nebu]

Listening to the playerbase  = good (maybe !?!)

Listening to the most vocal 5% of the playerbase = bad

Being able to differentiate between the two = priceless

[Merusk]

Companies that have been able to differentiate between the two, to date? = 0.

[tazelbain]

Listening to people the people who want WAR to be DAoC2 is as big of mistake as listening to people who want WAR to have Open PvP.  Both groups are hardcore in their own way and are trying to pull the game away from mainstream appeal.

Not sure how you got to that conclusion, i enjoyed the podcast and what it talked about..

Did you notice the section where they literally dragged items that where labeled under DAoC and put them under WAR RvR.

"Meh. We have run out ideas and time, so we're just going to copy-n-paste the keep code from Camelot and hope EA doesn't gut us." is what Josh really is saying.

[Johny Cee]

Listening to people the people who want WAR to be DAoC2 is as big of mistake as listening to people who want WAR to have Open PvP.  Both groups are hardcore in their own way and are trying to pull the game away from mainstream appeal.

Not sure how you got to that conclusion, i enjoyed the podcast and what it talked about..

Did you notice the section where they literally dragged items that where labeled under DAoC and put them under WAR RvR.

"Meh. We have run out ideas and time, so we're just going to copy-n-paste the keep code from Camelot and hope EA doesn't gut us." is what Josh really is saying.

The RvR system in DAoC was the one thing that was almost universally praised,  even by people cancelling.  That was good enough to make DAoC the arguably second largest MMO at it's peak with subscriptions north of 300k,  depending on how you count the Euros. 

Most former DAoC subscribers would give WAR at least a month if Mythic can roll out a "fixed" DAoC v2 RvR system with the major systemic changes that were blocked by the original's Realm/Class missteps (basing dynamics around aoe CC, necessary classes that are painful to play, the interrupt system, overwhelming importance of healing) and necessary min/max group class selection problems.

Learn from WoW:  Don't do new shit just because it's new.  You just get new borked systems you're balancing for years.  Adapt and polish the shit out of the successful bits and then add in the new systems where you have problems.

[Drogo]

I like the direction that WAR seems to be heading in. My biggest gripe with WAR was that most of the PvP was going to be focused in instances just like WoW. WoW might have nine million subscribers, but I do not play it anymore because there is no world PvP, just a bunch of instanced BGs and Arenas. If WAR did the exact same thing why would people leave WoW to play WAR? Focusing on keeps, forts and seige engines is what is going to draw players to the game. They might not get nine million players, but realistically they were not going to do that anyway. If they can do world PvP well, they have a good chance of being number two in the MMO market and that would be great compared to all the other disappointing games that have come out since WoW was released.

In my opinion this is a good move by the developers and my interest in WAR took a major swing upward. A polished, fun PvP game, even if it is just DAOC v2.0, is a pretty good bet to make money, certainly more money than trying to make WoW v2.0 right now.

[Fordel]

The only reason I had any interest in WAR to begin with was because I hoped it would end up as DaoC 2. So Cool beans. 

[Kirth]

I'm actuality coming at it from the other end, I played the table top game and never touched DoAC. I'm interested with what this game could become, I'm not a huge pvper but I've enjoyed it when done right (AC, WoW before honor, Planetside) I hope it will be something like these and not a endless string of alteric valleys.

[Nevermore]

DAoC RvR with better class balance and no fucking buffbots?  That's pretty much the only formula that would even get WAR a second look from me.

[Hoax]

better class balance, no buffbots, something interesting about the combat (beyond autoattack + hotkey), world pvp, no ctf w/out score keep/relic system ala daoc and I'll actually stay playing WAR beyond the free month.

Lets be real, almost all of us are dropping the $50 to try the fucking thing.  This is a huge, very cool IP and we haven't had a MMO worthy of being tagged AAA in forfuckingever.

[Merusk]

Lets be real, almost all of us are dropping the $50 to try the fucking thing.  This is a huge, very cool IP and we haven't had a MMO worthy of being tagged AAA in forfuckingever.

Nah. My policy is, no beta time, no forking over of the cash for a month or two at a minimum.  It's saved me lots so far.  I will, however, enjoy reading what the rest of you are saying.

[tazelbain]

Will the keeps be attackable without siege? Yes, players will be able to break open the keep doors, battle the guards, fight their way to the keep lord, and try to capture the keep.

Will Keeps change in appearance based upon which race controls them? In future patches (pre-launch), the appearance of the keep will change to reflect that the enemy realm has captured it. At this time, we are not planning to entirely replace the keep with a new structure with different geometry. So, an Empire keep captured by Destruction will still look like an Empire keep, but it will change to look like it's been under siege and show some signs of its new owners.

Will there be NPC guards and a captain to kill rather than a "run up and click the flag" we see in other games? There will definitely be more to capturing the keep than just interacting with an object or entering an area. There will be guards and a "lord", with the numbers of guards present based on factors players from both realms can affect. More details will be released closer to Beta re-opening.

Will there be non-typical types of keeps? (i.e. ships, trains, mountains) At this point, we aren't planning on using anything that deviates too far from a "keep" style structure.

Will keeps have multiple levels and if so, will they use ladders or stairs? The keeps will have several floors of combat space. Both the keeps and the outer walls will use stairs or ramps, with no ladders to be found.

Will Battlefield Objectives play a part in the keep system? Yes, there will be connections between the BOs and the keeps. Sorry folks, this is another one that we have to say "more details to follow later".

-RvR Team

   The finest Player vs. Door action money can buy.

[Draegan]

Well the beta is coming back soon.  The podcast said December.  I look forward to getting back in and seeing what the improved.

[Chinchilla]

Lets be real, almost all of us are dropping the $50 to try the fucking thing.  This is a huge, very cool IP and we haven't had a MMO worthy of being tagged AAA in forfuckingever.

Nah. My policy is, no beta time, no forking over of the cash for a month or two at a minimum.  It's saved me lots so far.  I will, however, enjoy reading what the rest of you are saying.

I agree w/ this statement.  No beta than I will wait until you get those free trail offers.  I haven't heard or read a single new or fascinating thing yet about any of the recent games coming out.  Its only major draw is that its Warhammer, but I can still wait just fine.

I didn't make it past the first 1 month free w/ WoW and its now just a coaster in my house.

Especially after Mythic's wonderful POS expansion that killed DAoC for me... ToA.

[Merusk]

Will there be NPC guards and a captain to kill rather than a "run up and click the flag" we see in other games? There will definitely be more to capturing the keep than just interacting with an object or entering an area. There will be guards and a "lord", with the numbers of guards present based on factors players from both realms can affect. More details will be released closer to Beta re-opening.-RvR Team

   The finest Player vs. Door action money can buy.
[/quote]

Yeah, I'm very amused by the "we want a PvE encounter for the capture" nature of this question.  The flags are flags in WoW's BG becasue.. well..  PLAYERS are the "boss mob"  Once they're dead (or distracted, or CC'd) clicky clicky.   Seems much more PvPish than "Oh well the captian is still up we can run off on our merry way and not worry about defending."

[Nevermore]

Will there be NPC guards and a captain to kill rather than a "run up and click the flag" we see in other games? There will definitely be more to capturing the keep than just interacting with an object or entering an area. There will be guards and a "lord", with the numbers of guards present based on factors players from both realms can affect. More details will be released closer to Beta re-opening.-RvR Team

   The finest Player vs. Door action money can buy.

Yeah, I'm very amused by the "we want a PvE encounter for the capture" nature of this question.  The flags are flags in WoW's BG becasue.. well..  PLAYERS are the "boss mob"  Once they're dead (or distracted, or CC'd) clicky clicky.   Seems much more PvPish than "Oh well the captian is still up we can run off on our merry way and not worry about defending."

It's an almost direct cut and paste of DAoC keeps.

[Hoax]

I still think all you DAOC fanbois are going to be in for a rude awakening when you encounter "RvR" without your rosey glasses.

DAOC's pvp "system" isn't shit to be excited about.  Never has been.  My biggest pet peeve on this sub-board is the people who insist on holding up "RvR" as some kind of great accomplishment in persistent world pvp.

[Xanthippe]

The only reason I had any interest in WAR to begin with was because I hoped it would end up as DaoC 2. So Cool beans. 

DAOC's RvR was very fun.  The rest of the game, not so much.

If WAR has similar pvp in it, I'm on it.  If not, I'm likely not playing.  I like largescale battles rather than dueling.

[Nebu]

I still think all you DAOC fanbois are going to be in for a rude awakening when you encounter "RvR" without your rosey glasses.

DAOC's pvp "system" isn't shit to be excited about.  Never has been.  My biggest pet peeve on this sub-board is the people who insist on holding up "RvR" as some kind of great accomplishment in persistent world pvp.

It's still better than any other mmog pvp system to date... with the possible exception being EvE.  That being the case I'd be happy if WAR were little more than DAoC 2 since there's NOTHING ELSE WORTH PLAYING IN MMO PVP RIGHT NOW!

[Ratman_tf]

DAOC RvR needed timers for keeps and relics. The thing about RvR that burned me out was the keep flipping during low population times.

There was no territory to hold, if even for a short while. Flip-flop ping-pong.

[Johny Cee]

I still think all you DAOC fanbois are going to be in for a rude awakening when you encounter "RvR" without your rosey glasses.

DAOC's pvp "system" isn't shit to be excited about.  Never has been.  My biggest pet peeve on this sub-board is the people who insist on holding up "RvR" as some kind of great accomplishment in persistent world pvp.

Name a system that did a better job of serving casuals, semi-serious players, and hardcores with single, small group, large group and zerg sized pvp action.  As Nebu said,  Eve is really the only other MMO in the same league.

And both have significant systemic flaws.

The only other game system that comes close to offering the same amount of flexibility and utility to varied playstyles is Magic Online,  and their big problem is on the technical end (hi2u Magic 3.0 and server stability issues),  with a side of pricing issues.

[tazelbain]

Since it looks like Camelot keeps are inevitable now.  I hope that that they aren't worth VP but serve as forward bases for supplies, respawn areas and guild vanity.  Nice to have, but not mandatory.

[Hoax]

I still think all you DAOC fanbois are going to be in for a rude awakening when you encounter "RvR" without your rosey glasses.

DAOC's pvp "system" isn't shit to be excited about.  Never has been.  My biggest pet peeve on this sub-board is the people who insist on holding up "RvR" as some kind of great accomplishment in persistent world pvp.

Name a system that did a better job of serving casuals, semi-serious players, and hardcores with single, small group, large group and zerg sized pvp action.  As Nebu said,  Eve is really the only other MMO in the same league.

And both have significant systemic flaws.

The only other game system that comes close to offering the same amount of flexibility and utility to varied playstyles is Magic Online,  and their big problem is on the technical end (hi2u Magic 3.0 and server stability issues),  with a side of pricing issues.

Remember when EQ1 was immpressive because Diku was new and MMO's were new and all the new car smell masked the fact that the car was made out of futuristic fecal matter pressboard?  Your "DAOC has great pvp" theories are kind of like that, but less good.

[Typhon]

You're just talking out your ass.  DAOC RvR was very good.  If they find some way to combine the open field RvR with battlegrounds (DAOC battleground, not WoW battlegrounds) - say like mountain passes or islands that give strategic value, it will be very cool.

[tmp]

The info they got from beta was to widely spread to be able to filter out the meaning/helpfull stuff.

Wasn't it that very beta feedback that supposedly made them shut the previous beta and go back to drawing board? So it'd seem it was quite filterable, meaningful and helpful for them. At least to point where they decided to take it seriously.

[HRose]

Two additions:

1. Talent trees for professions.
2. Adding persistent keeps, forts, and seige weaponry to open RVR.

So they are patching WoW and DAoC into the soulless turd? ;)

[IainC]

Two additions:

1. Talent trees for professions.
2. Adding persistent keeps, forts, and seige weaponry to open RVR.

So they are patching WoW and DAoC into the soulless turd? ;)

Clearly. As everyone knows, skill point based advancement systems were entirely unknown before WoW came along and revolutionised the genre with its truly ground-breaking advances in games design.