Star Trek Online - "Boldly going where Everyone has gone before"

[stray]

And sorry to be rude, but you're crazy to not like DS9. Besides Quark and the little cameos from Combs, Chief O'Brien is a kickass character... Really good actor there (especially the Syndicate/Donnie Brasco episode). But the real reason to watch that show is Gul Dukat. I'm not kidding when I say he's one of the best sci-fi villains ever. And definitely the best Star Trek one. Khan can suck his scaly nuts.

DS9 was the best ST series imo.  The characters on the show probably developed more then the ones on all the other series.  The fact that it was on a space station pretty much insured that, most of the time it was the character interactions that was the story.

I agree on Gul-dukat.  He was a great consistent villain for the show.  How can you forget about Garak though? ;)  The cast overall was pretty good.  I think the only character that really annoyed me on that show was Odo, although I like the actor.

Yeah, Garak came to mind right after I wrote that. I liked Odo too...At least when it came to the cat & mouse thing with Quark. Funny shit. Otherwise, he whined a bit too much.

To repeat though. Dukat is awesome. And if there's any reason to gripe about Star Trek "not going anywhere" -- it would be because of him. I don't see another villain being written as well anytime soon.

[Ratman_tf]

I loved Dukat as a villian up until they killed his daughter and made him crazy. I could hear two series worth of character exposition and development go down the toilet in that moment. 

[Margalis]

DS9 was very hit or miss, in about a third of the episodes the main plot is something that rightfully should be relegated to the secondary plot. A "best of" compilation would be great but as-is the quality is too sporadic.

Enterprise lost me in the first episode where the hot chick smeared herself with anti-bacterial ooze. Not that I'm opposed to seeing hot chicks lather themselves up with wet goo but the entire scene was too much smarmy fanservice for me.

I think up until DS9 you can say Trek wasn't too bad about repeating itself. ST:TNG was the home for morality plays, allusions, classic sci-fi themes and things of that nature, whereas DS9 had an arcing plot and more interpersonal stuff. Voyager and Enterprise both seemed like retreads without the heart, and classic SF themes can only be explored so often in a certain time-period.

Recently I saw an episode of Voyager where Q was on and he and the captain were fighting in some sort of colonial-era war that was actually a representation of some super-advanced Q-war. The entire thing seemed reminiscent of multiple other recent Trek episodes.

It kind of turned into Terminator 3 where they figured they could copy the catchphrases to capture the spirit of the older movies.

[Lum]

It took me a long time to write this response, but for the one geek that gets it... qu'

 jIyajbe'

[Furiously]

nuq

[IainC]

I watcheda few episodes of Voyager in the hope that it would get better. the nail in the coffin for me though was an episode where the ship runs into some kind of sub-space anomaly (gasp!) that bends space-time in strange and very localised ways - long corridors were now short corridors, doors opened into unrelated parts of the ship, people didn't recognise each other. Could have been cool.

Eventually they decide to wait it out to see if to goes away. They do and it does. Characterising conflict resolution is hard.

[Mrbloodworth]

Here's your actual news.

Update: Shacknews has receieved a considerable amount of new information regarding today's Perpetual news from a source close to the company, who requested to remain anonymous. Some information was gleaned from a letter detailing various changes to the company and Star Trek Online, which was recently distributed to all Perpetual employees.

Perpetual has been acquired by new ownership, reportedly a media company looking to use Star Trek Online to make its first major inroads into the video game market. Along with the acquisition comes a partial retargeting of Star Trek Online to what our source describes as a "more casual" experience, one which may potentially eschew subscription fees in favor of the practice of charging real money for optional in-game items, a practice popularized by various Korean MMOs.

Though there do not appear to have been any significant layoffs with the change in management, a number of Perpetual employees have allegedly left the company due to a dissatisfaction with the new direction the game is said to be taking.

Also job openings.

From joystick

There was some crazy financial news recently for Perpetual, the publisher of long-in-development Star Trek Onine. The practical upshot is that the company is in new hands, and, according to Shacknews' source, they're taking the game in a new, more casual direction.

That doesn't necessarily mean you'll have to match three dilithium crystals to engage your warp drive, but there is a possibility the game may shed subscription fees in favor of asking players to pay real-world cash for in-game items.

Perhaps this move is for the best though. With a new Trek film still a ways off and no versions of the series getting new TV episodes, we'd imagine that the place on the Venn diagram where hardcore gamers and Trek fans intersect is getting smaller every day.

From STO.net Whos staff is doing an incredible job of worshiping.

From the pen (keyboard) of Daron Stinnett, for your consideration.

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to step in and give everyone a quick update given all the rumors circulating. We are now in the process of finding a formal publisher for STO, which involves conversations with a variety of parties. We have been working on our business model for some time and once we establish a publisher, we will work with our new partner to communicate exactly what we are building - something I know all of you have been waiting a long time for.

There was also a report about PE liquidating our assets. That report relates to a transaction that took place a while back. And while I can't go into details right now, I want to assure the community that the entire Star Trek team is still here working hard and eagerly anticipating our chance to finally share our big plans.

Thanks, and hang-tight.

- Daron

and

You guys are very charitable - thanks for the support. And I mean that. There are some really nasty and incorrect rumors circulating right now and while the support is obviously not unanimous, I was expecting much more piling-on in this thread than is the case.

I personally think that MMOs need to be a better deal. Paying $200/year is a good deal for some but I don't think that is sustainable for the category and certainly rules out a lot of people who don't have the time to get enough value out of that expense. So we are discussing this issue internally. Unfortunately that discussion leaked and the characterization is incorrect. It's also unfortunate that we have not yet come to conclusion internally so it is hard to present the real story since we are in the process of figuring it out.

But I do want to reassure everyone that STO is still going, it is still a triple-A game, and we are thinking hard about how to make our efforts even more appealing with a lower barrier to entry than is the norm.

My assessment.

1) SOE publishing won't touch them after the G&H "issues"
2) Not only is the game going to be "Tanking ships", "Healing ships", and "Shaman ships" its going to have an Item shop.

Personally, from day one i have felt that Perpetual entertainment is not the developer to be given such an IP. They have never shipped a product, and the one they were about to, tanked...and according to all accounts, its was because the game was very sub par. I feel said for the ST nerds that have dreamed of a ST-MMO since the dawn of MMO's. This has nothing to do with the people that work at PE, but rather that PE its self is untested, and to be trusted with such an IP...shocking.

Raph, save Star trek.

[schild]

Bloodworth, you're a kind of fruit. I haven't picked which kind yet. But that Raph, Save Star Trek shit at the end makes me think small citrus.

[Hutch]

Besides, Raph would make it "MMO" by turning it into a Facebook plugin, with your own customizable Star Trek Bratz avatar to visit other players' meta-holodeck-space-community-pages.

Better choose another savior.

[Mrbloodworth]

Bloodworth, you're a kind of fruit. I haven't picked which kind yet. But that Raph, Save Star Trek shit at the end makes me think small citrus.

Heh, well, its a reference to a line someone here posted. It went along the lines of. "I cant help but thinking that SWG should have been the WOW game, and Star trek should have been the sand box". Or something along those lines...

In all honesty, i think a Star trek mmo should not have come for another 5 years or so.

I look forward to hearing what kind of fruit i am. 

[stray]

But that Raph, Save Star Trek shit at the end makes me think small citrus.

So many things would have to be covered in Trek, that I don't think one Vision™ could cover it. Away missions -- everything from diplomatic foibles to Orion girl lapdances to "God" wanting your starship ; tactical space combat; life aboard a starship -- Barclay to Quark to 10 Forward.

Probably best to just leave the idea alone. No one in the MMO industry can even do 1/4 of one of those features well.

[Mrbloodworth]

But that Raph, Save Star Trek shit at the end makes me think small citrus.

So many things would have to be covered in Trek, that I don't think one Vision™ could cover it. Away missions -- everything from diplomatic foibles to Orion girl lapdances to "God" wanting your starship ; tactical space combat; life aboard a starship -- Barclay to Quark to 10 Forward.

Probably best to just leave the idea alone. No one in the MMO industry can even do 1/4 of one of those features well.

I agree. Space game, land game, Ship interiors, Star fleet MOS's, hundreds of alien races,quadrant politics, ETC...... The list is huge even with simplified terms.

EDIT: OH, and have a trailer.

[Righ]

But if they get tribbles right, they'll have a winner.

[geldonyetich2]

"Oh geeze, my ship is full of furballs.  Who grief-tribbled me?"

[Venkman]

They're now looking for a publisher, or they lost the publisher they had? I am surprised they'd have been granted rights to use the IP without that already figured out. Not that there was a bunch of companies clamoring for it...

[schild]

^^

In simple terms, stupid, crap license. Have fun!

[stray]

Wrong.

Stupid, crap industry.

An actual, working Star Trek MMO would be the bees knees. It's just that no one can make it.

[Ghambit]

The key to the shiznit Trek MMO is just making the most barebones space gaming environment you can, set the rules and constraints relative to ST lore, and then give the players total control over the gamespace with the proper tools.  Done.

GMs and elite players will be "Q" charged with maintaining balance in an entropic universe.

[schild]

It's just that no one can make it.

Stray, that makes it a stupid, crap license.

[Reg]

But one with a lot of "potential" surely? 

[stray]

It's just that no one can make it.

Stray, that makes it a stupid, crap license.

If it's a crap license, then they're all crap licenses. Which is my real point. No one can make anything decent at all.

[Margalis]

I think the license is quite good actually. That said this game has all the markings of either total failure or vaporware.

[geldonyetich2]

A Star Trek MMORPG could be quite good. 

It just has to not resemble existing MMORPGs in any way.

Not likely. 

[Ratman_tf]

A Star Trek MMORPG could be quite good. 

It just has to not resemble existing MMORPGs in any way.

Not likely. 

I think that's why a Raph Koster sandbox with emphasis on the social game might work. Trekkies will run with whatever tools you give them to be Klingons and shit.

[Mrbloodworth]

A Star Trek MMORPG could be quite good. 

It just has to not resemble existing MMORPGs in any way.

Not likely. 

I think that's why a Raph Koster sandbox with emphasis on the social game might work. Trekkies will run with whatever tools you give them to be Klingons and shit.

Thats what i said...but i'm a fruit. 

[Ghambit]

I'm in agreeance.  Sandbox is the way to go with this IP.  Problem is, Devs are some of the stingiest people on the planet, errr  Galaxy in this case .  Highly unlikely they'll open their game up for Trekkers to play with.  They're more likely to do it "casual" so they can just get subs for the 1st month, which is what Perp. is doing.  They've also got more job security if they dont port the lion's share of the work out to the players.

Also, STO is looking more and more like EnB everyday.  Granted, I think EnB was a GREAT game... it just got overshadowed by other products and shitcanned by EA.  If Perp. WERE to make a "casual" STO, they'd be wise to follow EnB's model IMO... which oddly enough, it looks like they're doing.  Only better.

Therein lies the problem; "to be or not to be."  ala Undiscovered Country.  They can make a fun, casual game.  Or, they can tackle the ST universe as a whole.  The former is easier to do, but takes longer.  The latter is harder, but takes less time because you're relying on player input.

So I pose this question:  how would YOU design a STO game?  (be as specific as possible... simply saying "Sandbox" wont cut it)

p.s.
You can pretty much guarantee a ST "metaplace" once that system is up and running.

[Nebu]

Granted, I think EnB was a GREAT game... it just got overshadowed by other products and shitcanned by EA. 

You lost me here.  Completely.

[Venkman]

Everyone's right.

STO would be a great sandbox game. It's "just" that nobody has the stomach to make one and the few that could do so pretty well don't have the resources... because nobody has the stomach to make one.

And "just" is in quotes because it really isn't that easy.

[stray]

Sandbox, and a ton of scripted content to boot.

And if you think it through, neither one could be done justice.


Just take one element that lends itself to sandboxing, for example: Planet exploration/surveying. Getting your virtual Darwin on. To be true to the idea of "science officers", you definitely couldn't cheapen it with a bunch of copy & paste maps, and identical mobs and resources everywhere like in SWG.

Then there's the other science officers who study cosmological events and anomalies...


And if you play down those two elements, and say, "Oh, it isn't very important", then you fucking fail. Both activities were basically the catalysts for almost every single storyline and encounter in Star Trek.


And this just exploration we're talking about here.

[Ratman_tf]

Sandbox, and a ton of scripted content to boot.

And if you think it through, neither one could be done justice.


Just take one element that lends itself to sandboxing, for example: Planet exploration/surveying. Getting your virtual Darwin on. To be true to the idea of "science officers", you definitely couldn't cheapen it with a bunch of copy & paste maps, and identical mobs and resources everywhere like in SWG.

Then there's the other science officers who study cosmological events and anomalies...


And if you play down those two elements, and say, "Oh, it isn't very important", then you fucking fail. Both activities were basically the catalysts for almost every single storyline and encounter in Star Trek.


And this just exploration we're talking about here.

I would probably boil exploration down to something like Eve's system. There is no goddamned way you could have a new race to encounter or planet to explore every time you log in. Not to the extent that a sci-fi writer can do in a script. (Which was about 12-24 hours of "content" per year, if you try to compare a TV series to a game...)

So have ancient artifacts that you can scan for and dig up, and increase your "Archeology" status. Ding, gratz.
Then have some of those artifacts start a mission chain if you analyze them in a lab... shit this stuff writes itself! Give me dev status!

[Draegan]

EnB was the first MMO I ever BETA tested.  Heh.  That game was awful.

Anyway, I think before you even enter in STO design questions, you have to ask yourself where you want to focus on?  Space Combat or Exploration?  Pick one and then make that the best you possibly can.

[stray]

I'd rather have an exploration one... Hell, Starfleet only if it came down to it. Star Trek combat sucks. I don't care much for tactical/submarine like warfare. Not exciting! Give me dogfighting/Wing Commander instead.

[Slyfeind]

EnB was the first MMO I ever BETA tested.  Heh.  That game was awful.

Anyway, I think before you even enter in STO design questions, you have to ask yourself where you want to focus on?  Space Combat or Exploration?  Pick one and then make that the best you possibly can.

I think that would be best thing to do. (And I would favor exploration over combat myself.) Now my question is, after you chose one, could you publish an expansion for the other? SWG tells us no, but for its own reasons....

[Nebu]

Not exciting! Give me dogfighting/Wing Commander instead.

Ace of Aces Online = WIN!

It seems to me that the only way to do Star Trek online would be as an exploration-type carebear game.  Combat wasn't really the point of the show.  It would have to be something like diplomacy meets ATitD in outer space to really be worthy of the license.  I guess to market it to the masses you'd have to make it kill-a-klingon-liscious.

[Mrbloodworth]

I'd rather have an exploration one... Hell, Starfleet only if it came down to it. Star Trek combat sucks. I don't care much for tactical/submarine like warfare. Not exciting! Give me dogfighting/Wing Commander instead.

Star fleet does have fighter craft (as do a few other races), and DS9 introduced the defiant class capital ship. I have always felt, the naval combat was best suited for the huge ships, and twitch should be used in small one/two man fighters.