The Inevitable Halo 3 Thread

[Litigator]

I think, at this point in time, PC snobbery is retrograde and outdated.  During the PS1 and, to some extent, the PS2 generations PC was for hardcore gaming and consoels were for lightweights.

I no longer think there is a serious argument that this remains the case. Now that consoles are very powerful and have HD capabilities, there's really no longer any justification to build the massively expensive gaming rigs that drive high-end PC gaming. Now that everyone has a PC, game devs devote a lot of PC resources to casual games, and scale almost all of them to play on very old hardware.  There is no longer a market of college students buying tricked out gaming rigs every year, because college students all get laptops now, and many serious gamers have discovered that services like Xbox live provide a pretty robust multiplayer platform, and see the need for PC upgrades as a lot less compelling.  Its a lot more tolerable to pay $400 for a piece of subsidized hardware with a 5 year lifespan than it is to pay a high-margin premium for cutting edge PC hardware that rapidly depreciates in value and is outclassed by the next thing in less than a year. So the number of people buying high-end PC hardware is not currently significant enough to justify the expense of developing games that are markedly more sophisticated than the AAA console launches, even if the hardware is commercially available. PC gamers now get console ports rather than the other way around.

The remaining vanity of PC gamers is the superiority of PC controls. I think an Xbox controller is a perfectly competent control mechanism as long as the weapon set and the map design is balanced around being played on an Xbox control.   

As for Halo, I'm working my way through the Heroic campaign right now. It's quite difficult, but the AI is not as sophisticated as Hardcore GoW, and as a single player experience, I am finding this less satisfying. I played H1 and H2 on normal mode and I remember spending a lot of time out of cover charging into groups of enemies. In Heroic, I find myself picking them off from long range with a carbine or a battle rifle, whenever those options are available.  The AI seems a lot dumber than GoW's, and I am not seeing a lot of flanking or covering maneuvers from the Brutes. They make up for not being smart by being a lot more durable, and it's really annoying to have to shoot one of the heavily armored Brutes three times in the face with the sniper rifle or beam rifle to kill him.

I feel a lot less like I am progressing because I am a super-powered, ten-foot-tall, cyborg demon and a lot more like I am, in each encounter, executing a highly precise set of maneuvers to achieve a staggeringly improbable outcome (especially since I usually fail several times before getting it).

One example: I am dealing with two Brutes on their Chopper hover bikes partrolling on a road. The road leads into a cave that is blocked by a shield that I have to disable. There is a Grunt in a shade turret on a ridge, covering the road, a sniper on a sniper platform covering the road and the ridge, and a second shade turret at road level facing out of the cave, also  covering the road. I have a beam (sniper) rifle and a shotgun. So I have to juke the two Choppers and the turret fire, run across the road, flank the turret on the ridge. and beat the grunt to death. Then I have to countersnipe the sniper on the platform. Then I have to snipe the Brutes off the Choppers. Now I can charge the remaining turret and stick it with a grenade.

This causes a bunch of wasp guys to spawn in the cave, and they fly through the shield and kill me, because I can't cover from them out in the open.

So I start at the checkpoint and repeat the process a few times, trying to shotgun all the wasps before I die.  Then I figure out that there's a structure up on one of the hills that I can cover in from the wasps to let my shield regenerate, so this time, I stick the turret and book for that, which allows me to kill the wasps and progress.

The difficulty primarily stems from the fact that Master Chief can take very little punishment, the brutes can eat a lot, and I either never have the ideal weapon, or never have enough ammo for it, and have to make due with whatever is lying around.

[schild]

PC gamers now get console ports rather than the other way around.

Team Fortress 2 says hello.

Everyone here knows I'm a PC Gamer second, and I'm sorry, but this sort of gameplay is simply not possible on a console. The scout will be a marginalized piece of shit with analog sticks and the entire experience will be trashed.

It's not favoritism, it's just the reality of it. For nearly every other genre, I'd go console first. But not FPS. No. Never. I also don't see console companies getting the balls to make keyboard/mouse a standard. I fear UT2k7 and the PS3 with it's kbm bluetooth/wired capabilities may be a one shot deal.

[AcidCat]

The AI seems a lot dumber than GoW's

Yeah, now that I think about it GoW makes Halo's single player gameplay feel really outdated.

Halo 3 multiplayer feels rather oldschool too. I played online a couple hours once Live came back up for me. I did have fun - it's considerably more enjoyable than the single player campaign of course. But the whole scenario of everyone spawning the same then running around a small environment collecting weapons and shooting each other was basically what we were doing in Doom. Aside from the vehicles it just feels like some kind of throwback.

As far as console FPS controls, I have no problem with a controller because that's how I started playing these games - I was a console gamer long before I got a PC. Doom, UT, QIIIA - all these I played on console. When I first got a PC the mouse/kb contol set up was incredibly unintuitive and it took me a long time to get used to it. You can adapt to any control scheme, it's just a matter if you are willing to. I do now prefer mouse/kb for games with more precise aiming mechanics like Call of Duty or Battlefield ... but for something like TF2 I think it could be done with a controller just fine for the most part ... Scout and Sniper might just be a bit more challenging, but people adapt.

[Sky]

The remaining vanity of PC gamers is the superiority of PC controls. I think an Xbox controller is a perfectly competent control mechanism as long as the weapon set and the map design is balanced around being played on an Xbox control.   

You must be all thumbs. You know, the old saying. For being clumsy. Because you use your thumbs for things requiring precise manual dexterity that is far more prevalent in the other four digits. Three of which are relegated to holding the controller.

Just sayin'. It's not some vanity.

Also, reducing a UI for viewing on non-HD sources is still a hobbling point for consoles, as is reducing the control set for a few face buttons and a couple triggers.

Back to Halo. My dad almost beat the game on Legendary before he got tired of it. My dad, who is in his mid-60s. And only started playing console shooters a couple years ago. Who is basically a non-gamer. My dad. So, yeah. Probably not the toughest game in the world.

[murdoc]

Halo 3 multiplayer feels rather oldschool too. I played online a couple hours once Live came back up for me. I did have fun - it's considerably more enjoyable than the single player campaign of course. But the whole scenario of everyone spawning the same then running around a small environment collecting weapons and shooting each other was basically what we were doing in Doom. Aside from the vehicles it just feels like some kind of throwback.

A friend of mine who has never played any version of Halo asked what it brought to the table, other than graphics, that Doom didn't... and I really couldn't answer him except for the vehicles part, which isn't necessarily a plus.

[Litigator]

The remaining vanity of PC gamers is the superiority of PC controls. I think an Xbox controller is a perfectly competent control mechanism as long as the weapon set and the map design is balanced around being played on an Xbox control.   

You must be all thumbs. You know, the old saying. For being clumsy. Because you use your thumbs for things requiring precise manual dexterity that is far more prevalent in the other four digits. Three of which are relegated to holding the controller.

Just sayin'. It's not some vanity.

Also, reducing a UI for viewing on non-HD sources is still a hobbling point for consoles, as is reducing the control set for a few face buttons and a couple triggers.

Back to Halo. My dad almost beat the game on Legendary before he got tired of it. My dad, who is in his mid-60s. And only started playing console shooters a couple years ago. Who is basically a non-gamer. My dad. So, yeah. Probably not the toughest game in the world.

Well, the real issue is that digital control (i.e. it's pushed or it ain't) is considered better for movement in shooters than analog control (it's pushed a little bit), and a gaming mouse has a more precise range than an analog stick. These things are useful in games that require you to use a railgun or a rifle while strafing or possibly flying through the air. If you want to rocket jump, turn 180 degrees in midair and rail a guy in a game like Quake where characters run at 60 mph, you can't do that with an Xbox controller. However, in Halo, where you run slower, and nobody is jumping around in moon gravity, and most of the weapons are heavier with auto fire or spread fire, a lot of that advantage dissipates.

[Litigator]

Halo 3 multiplayer feels rather oldschool too. I played online a couple hours once Live came back up for me. I did have fun - it's considerably more enjoyable than the single player campaign of course. But the whole scenario of everyone spawning the same then running around a small environment collecting weapons and shooting each other was basically what we were doing in Doom. Aside from the vehicles it just feels like some kind of throwback.

A friend of mine who has never played any version of Halo asked what it brought to the table, other than graphics, that Doom didn't... and I really couldn't answer him except for the vehicles part, which isn't necessarily a plus.

I think that's kind of the point. It's supposed to be the most polished online console deathmatch game, refined over several iterations. It's like asking what Madden 2008 brings to the table that Madden 2003 didn't.

[schild]

Except the PC has had more solid, polished deathmatching in multiple genres for years predating Halo.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

I think I am the last person who should comment on this, seeing as I am not a very big FPS player, but I really cannot get into Halo. I really, REALLY have tried. I just think that its draw is much like other casual friendly examples of any given genre. (I'm looking at you DOA) I think that Halo offers accessible game play and a large player base grouped into skill levels so you don't get the inevitable beat down that you deserve. Unfortunately that "beat down" is what makes good players, and what cause good players to push the boundries of what advanced play is. When these new levels of skill are reached, developers can build around the new techniques and add other things, further advancing the game play experience. It seems like Halo doesn't allow for this because it caps everyone off, then when techniques are discovered, they are done away with. (all that L,B,L stuff and mellee combinations were taken out from what I am told) Halo 3, from what I played and saw, just feels freaking dated. The truth is, as a lot of people pointed out here, NONE of this is stuff we haven't seen on PC. Seems like Halo is exactly what it sets out to be, accessible FPS on console with a huge player base and balanced, albeit dated, game play. Whether this is good or bad is debatable, but as for me, I would much rather play other FPS games on PC, heck I actually think that Timesplitters owns Halo all over the place, but that is just me.     

[Yegolev]

I can see autoaim fucking with the 360 version of TF2 when it comes to demoman.  Killjoy will be getting the 360 version so I'll be able to tell you more about it later, perhaps.  If you don't have autoaim in TF2, well... it should be an option if it is in there at all.

As for the scout, how would someone run across the top of the bridge in 2fort to hit a homer with someone's skull using a gamepad?  R3 = jump?  Taking your thumbs off the sticks is not an option.  On the 360, I figure Halo 3 would be a better choice than TF2 thanks to gamepad-oriented design/tuning, but I can't say until I get some time with those versions.

[Falwell]

To be honest, the reason consoles have closed the gap with PC's is because they are copying them in more and more ways. Online activity, hard drives, downloadable content and patches etc. etc.

The only differences between PC's and consoles as of now are the controls and the ability to upgrade the hardware. Neither of these differences are going to last much longer either.

[Rasix]

I wonder what sort of reaction I'm going to get when I go into EBgames tomorrow and ask them to put my Halo 3 preorder money towards Beautiful Katamari.  Maybe I should avoid buying Soul Nomad at the same to make sure I'm getting the "wut u no liek halo?" look and not the crazy jap gamer look.

[schild]

Go for both, start walking out and then turn around and be like "Oh, let me get Soul Nomad."

And then when they counter with, "WHY NO HALO?"

You can respond with, "CAN YOU KILL A MOTHERFUCKING GOD IN HALO, DICKCHEESE? NO? OK THEN SOUL NOMAD STAT THX."

[Samwise]

I don't know, I'd have to say that the Forge sounds pretty cool, and would seem to be one of Halo 3's major selling points.

(snip)

Big Game Hunters, Halo 3 style?

Or for those who didn't get the Starcraft reference: like Garry's Mod but shitty?

Console games have to start somewhere with this kind of thing.  I mean, do you seriously want to criticize them for not having something on par with Garry's Mod, when the extent of map customization in console FPS games before this was pretty much only being able to select what weapons you wanted available?

No, I don't criticize them for not having Garry's Mod.  I criticize them for pretending that what they have is bold and revolutionary and fun.  "HALO 3 ALL WEAPON MADNESS SERVER LOLOLOL!"  It sounds like all they've got is the very worst aspects of the sort of customization that's been available in PC games for more than a decade now.

I mean, sure, it's important to take those baby steps, but you don't get to pretend you're the first person on the planet to ever think of putting one foot in front of the other.

And hell, it's not even a console vs. PC thing.  LittleBigPlanet is a PS3 game and from what I've seen it looks awesome.  Halo in all its iterations is just grossly overrated is all.

[schild]

Microsoft today announced that the Xbox 360 exclusive game “Halo 3” has officially become the biggest entertainment launch in history, garnering an estimated $170 million in sales in the United States alone in the first 24 hours. The Xbox 360 title beat previous records set by blockbuster theatrical releases like “Spider-man 3” and novels such as “Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.”

It's gonna break $250M this week.

Hollywood and music industry pwned. Yes, even with my vile hatred towards gaming mediocrity, this makes me happy.

[LK]

I always like how mitigating factors like "We're charging 6 times the amount a movie ticket costs" aren't mentioned.

[schild]

I always like how mitigating factors like "We're charging 6 times the amount a movie ticket costs" aren't mentioned.

Uh? That's because it doesn't matter? You don't think movie theaters would charge $60 if they could get away with it?

[Triforcer]

Meh. I'll wait for Left 4 Dead.

[Velorath]

I always like how mitigating factors like "We're charging 6 times the amount a movie ticket costs" aren't mentioned.

Uh? That's because it doesn't matter? You don't think movie theaters would charge $60 if they could get away with it?

If we charged you $60 a ticket, we wouldn't be able to get you to buy any of our overpriced food.

[Johny Cee]

No, I don't criticize them for not having Garry's Mod.  I criticize them for pretending that what they have is bold and revolutionary and fun.  "HALO 3 ALL WEAPON MADNESS SERVER LOLOLOL!"  It sounds like all they've got is the very worst aspects of the sort of customization that's been available in PC games for more than a decade now.

I mean, sure, it's important to take those baby steps, but you don't get to pretend you're the first person on the planet to ever think of putting one foot in front of the other.

And hell, it's not even a console vs. PC thing.  LittleBigPlanet is a PS3 game and from what I've seen it looks awesome.  Halo in all its iterations is just grossly overrated is all.

You do know the derivation of Forge in regards to Bungie, yes?  That was also the name of one of the two editing tools Bungie released (and supported) with Marathon Infinity in '96.

[squirrel]

I always like how mitigating factors like "We're charging 6 times the amount a movie ticket costs" aren't mentioned.

Because it's irrelevant? Marginal Utility is what it is. Your average unit price is irrelevant when measuring revenue this way. Now what they're not saying is that any of those movies will destroy them over a couple years due to DVD rentals, sales and 3rd market releases. But arguing on unit price is stupid.

EDIT: Actually, only Harry,  Spidey and Pirates are likely to do so. But then they're the only ones that had opening days/weekends that compare. Keep in mind a film like Pirates 2 made around $350 million pretty quickly. But yeah, impressive numbers for a 360 game no doubt. Personally I consider it a mediocre game, but w/e i didn't like Spidey 3 either.

[Samprimary]

I never bought into or paid attention to the hype or the game's meta-politics so Halo 3 came off as a solidly fun and compelling time with some really fun firefights and great multiplayer. I try to have my attitude towards games be equivilant to how they would be if I had never heard of the game/series before but had just thrown it in my console to see what it was like.

Of course sometimes this has been exactly how I've found a game to like (Prince of Persia) but other times you have to wade through hype and expectations and fucking game fuel and ignore it all in order to not be playing the game with a perma-scoff on your face.

[Samwise]

You do know the derivation of Forge in regards to Bungie, yes?  That was also the name of one of the two editing tools Bungie released (and supported) with Marathon Infinity in '96.

I did not know that, but it makes any claim that this is bold new technology all the more silly.

Not that I've seen Bungie themselves making that claim -- I refer mainly to the knob-slobbering IGN review that Vel posted on the last page.  "Spawning lots of ammo" != "near limitless possibilities".  /sadf

[Velorath]

It's new for consoles, and is likely about the best we can expect for any sort of map customization or editing in a console game for now.  Despite vague promises of allowing mods for UT3 on the PS3, fear of Hot Coffee type situations pretty much kills the chance of modding ever being allowed on consoles to the extent that it is on PC's.

I don't plan on picking up Halo 3 anytime soon, so I haven't had a chance to mess around with Forge at all, but I think giving players a way to mix things up on the map a little bit can only be a good thing.  Sure it's not going to seem exciting to the PC gamer, playing Team Fortress 2 on a dedicated server, messin' around with Garry's Mod, or trying out the Crysis beta, but then it's not really meant for that crowd so much as it's meant for the 9 million people that bought Halo 2.

[AcidCat]

I played the first campaign mission again on the higher difficulty, Heroic, and I have to say it was more enjoyable. The Halo games have always had more rewarding gameplay on higher difficulties and this one is no different. It turns a run and gun experience into something much more tactical.

[Fabricated]

I'm pretty sick of hearing about Halo 3 on TV now. Jesus Microsoft we get it, Halo 3 is out and it's all you have to push your piece of shit system now that everyone has forgotten about Gears. Stop it with the goddamn CNN/MSNBC stories.

Also, can someone kindly burn down Kotaku and kill all their hack writers? I looked at the place for the first time in quite a while and half their stories for the last week are about Halo 3.

[NiX]

I've been playing this with my friends online and my god is it fun Co-op on heroic. You really do have to pick your battles wisely and utilize the fact that you can actually guide other people who aren't as dumb as the AI.  The best part is that you can have a friend log into your xbox while you're playing co-op online and play with you while you play with other people on XBOX live. I hate to say it, but at least Bungie acknowledges that co-op is something people want and really making an effort to add it in every way possible.

[Fabricated]

I've been playing this with my friends online and my god is it fun Co-op on heroic. You really do have to pick your battles wisely and utilize the fact that you can actually guide other people who aren't as dumb as the AI.  The best part is that you can have a friend log into your xbox while you're playing co-op online and play with you while you play with other people on XBOX live. I hate to say it, but at least Bungie acknowledges that co-op is something people want and really making an effort to add it in every way possible.

This is the one thing that will probably make me consider Halo 3 when I get a 360 (after the new hopefully non-explodey build comes out). Halo 1 and 2 were incredibly mediocre (and Halo 2's multiplayer blew nuts compared to uh, every online PC shooter ever), but the coop was a gas, especially when you were trying to make the game do things it didn't want to do.

[Morfiend]

I bought it. Played for about an hour or so. So far I am extremely unimpressed. But, I bought it for the coop. Still, I some how thought iot would be a lot more cooler. Gears of War is a MUCH better game IMO. For people who bought this instead of Gears, I feel pity.

[Kitsune]

If the console companies and publishers writing for them weren't being stupid cocks about keyboard and mouse control, yeah, a console FPS would be dandy.  As it is, the Metroid Prime series is the only console FPS I can stomach.

[rk47]

uh, can we even plug in a keyboard and mouse on 360 to play Halo 3?

[AcidCat]

I've been playing this with my friends online and my god is it fun Co-op on heroic.

I did the first two levels online with my friend last night and it was a really good time.

Playing this game alone is really almost pointless.

[LK]

Just an FYI, the first level is pretty bad compared to the others for some reason.  I noticed that I had a much more fun time from the 4th level on.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

It's new for consoles, and is likely about the best we can expect for any sort of map customization or editing in a console game for now.  Despite vague promises of allowing mods for UT3 on the PS3, fear of Hot Coffee type situations pretty much kills the chance of modding ever being allowed on consoles to the extent that it is on PC's.

I don't plan on picking up Halo 3 anytime soon, so I haven't had a chance to mess around with Forge at all, but I think giving players a way to mix things up on the map a little bit can only be a good thing.  Sure it's not going to seem exciting to the PC gamer, playing Team Fortress 2 on a dedicated server, messin' around with Garry's Mod, or trying out the Crysis beta, but then it's not really meant for that crowd so much as it's meant for the 9 million people that bought Halo 2.

I kinda think Forge just sounds lame. I mean, Timesplitters 1,2, and 3 had a pretty damn decent level builders and would let you place items and weapons anywhere. Not only that you can make all kinds of silly game types and single player missions. TS3 was the damn shit...

[Morfiend]

Ok, so thinking maybe I was missing some thing, I went looking for some reviews. This section of the gamespy review made me want to seriously punch some thing. I actually clenched my fist and looked around the room for some thing to hit.

While an argument could be made that the single-player campaign alone wouldn't quite be enough to garner a 5/5 score for Halo 3, the entire package is more than satisfying enough to warrant it. The Forge is a gargantuan achievement that puts game design in the hands of players, daring you to be creative and invent a Halo 3 multiplayer experience all your own. Of course, the multiplayer is every bit as astonishing as it has been in past iterations and even eclipses its predecessors in many respects.

In a lot of ways, this review is merely a formality, because there's no doubt in our minds that everyone with a 360 and a hunger for viscious multiplayer should own Halo 3 immediately. In fact, there are probably millions of people who do not yet own 360s that should go out and buy them just so they can witness the majesty that is a furious Halo 3 multiplayer match (provided they enjoy serious competition).

Quite simply, Halo 3 is the reason the Xbox 360 exists.