TF2 Dedicated Server

[Cory Jacobs]

Basically, it's to compensate for people with shitty connections and/or shitty machines.

In other words. Ookii is compensating for himself, even though we don't want people with either shitty connections or shitty machines playing.

We're going to rename it the Ironic Rate. He wants it at 66 Ironics Per Second.

Edit: Most recent update disabled 100 tick rate as an option. Also, I'm not seeing a reason to update to 66.

As someone playing on a shitty machine I find this to be offensive... perhaps I'll take my awesomeness to a different Racist Server.

[schild]

At higher tickrates, essentially, you become easier to hit.

In short higher ticrate means more pictures of where you and every1 else in the game actually is. If everything (server) and everyone (players connected) can handle the higher ticrate I think it just makes the facts of where everyone actually is in the game more accurate and there for makes you and everyone else 'easier to hit' ONLY because your dealing with more accurate information on where every person in the game is.

It seems clan use 30 in UT and 33 in Source stuff when they're playing seriously. As ping and computer speed effect what the server knows about your location. Also, 66 takes about 75% more processing time on the server. There's really no reason to upgrade downgrade.

[Ookii]

I don't even know where to begin.

[schild]

I don't even know where to begin.

Then begin at the beginning and don't just change things willy nilly. Give a reason to up the tick rate.

[MrHat]

Ok.  That makes sense sort of, so it does level the playing field for people with weaker machines, as well as let the server run smoother?

So then, if the server is fixed at XX tick rate, everyone on the server is forced to the same tick rate right? So then, how come this arguement came about in the first place?

[schild]

So then, if the server is fixed at XX tick rate, everyone on the server is forced to the same tick rate right? So then, how come this arguement came about in the first place?

Not really. I can still be running at 120fps and Ookii can be running at 10fps. But if the tick rate is high enough, we'll both be receiving more accurate data. I'll still only be updated on server information 66 times a second though. Basically, Josh gets more accurate data at the second his frame flips over, despite being on a machine with a crap framerate. Basically, it makes it easier for him to hit me, and harder for me to hit him. Mostly because at any given time, the person with the lowest framerate has the hardest time knowing where he, himself, is - but has the exact location of other players at any given frame.

I have a keen interest now in learning how MMOGs account for this. (Another topic, another time).

[MrHat]

Awesome.  I learned something today.  I knew my 5 hour procrastinating stint on Mondays are good for something.

[Ookii]

So then, if the server is fixed at XX tick rate, everyone on the server is forced to the same tick rate right? So then, how come this arguement came about in the first place?

Not really. I can still be running at 120fps and Ookii can be running at 10fps. But if the tick rate is high enough, we'll both be receiving more accurate data. I'll still only be updated on server information 66 times a second though. Basically, Josh gets more accurate data at the second his frame flips over, despite being on a machine with a crap framerate. Basically, it makes it easier for him to hit me, and harder for me to hit him. Mostly because at any given time, the person with the lowest framerate has the hardest time knowing where he, himself, is - but has the exact location of other players at any given frame.

I have a keen interest now in learning how MMOGs account for this. (Another topic, another time).

No, not really.

[schild]

Then explain it and stop wasting time prancing around it. I'd like to be wrong but signs don't point to that.

[Venkman]

Very educational thread so far. I'm also interested in understanding why, and if, you're wrong. I'll be trying the F13 server tonight with my awesome framerate, ready to be crit-hit all over the map :)

As to MMOs, and I certainly wouldn't even qualify as a newbie on the tech side, but as I understand it, a lot of this is controlled by the global clock using the same concept of tic but at a much slower rate. Servers send info out to clients at intervals, independent of framerate, which is why you get such similar behavior (invisible buildings blocking you, people getting hit before being rendered in their location, etc).

[Megrim]

Schild, sweety, don't run a 33 ticrate server. Please.

[schild]

Schild, sweety, don't run a 33 ticrate server. Please.

We have been.

Now if I'm wrong, someone explain why. All I'm doing is parroting shit on other clan sites.

[lesion]

double it and you improve server muscle tone while scaring away feeble players. [f13] HUAH!

[eldaec]

Hmmm, you know, all these vague allusions to technical knowhow without actually spilling the goods could make a guy suspect that nobody in this thread actually understands wtf tick does.

(I don't, btw).

[Megrim]

Ok, quick reply because i have to shower and head to uni, but whichever "clan sites" you've been listening to, don't. They are horrible and bad, and horribad.

Server refresh rates control the rate at which information is updated to and from client machines. A server updating at the maximum possible rate is preferable to one updating at less than maximum, because it offers equal opportunity to all connected clients to (potentially) have optimal performance as near to server level as possible (in terms of hit detection and player movemenet rendering) - as long as their connections can handle 100-level refresh rates without suffering choke and loss (use net_graph 1 through to 5 i think in Source to display this).

If you are running at an artificially symied 33 ticrate you are essentially forcing everyone connected to use dial-up rates (defaul Halflife rates are 30/20/9999... circa 1999), despite the fact that their connections can actually handle much higher levels of data access.

This is without going into the synchronicity between client/server refresh rates and hit rego on automatic weapons in Valve games. Short story is, run your updaterate/cmdrate as close as possible to your fps, which should in turn run as close as possible to the server's. Which is why 100 ticrate servers are a good idea.

[MrHat]

How is that different from saying 33 tick rate is handicapping people w/ good connections and computers?

[Ookii]

[eldaec]

How is that different from saying 33 tick rate is handicapping people w/ good connections and computers?

I suspect it's that he used words like netgraph, choke, and synchronicity.

As you should be aware, explanations amoung our people can never be considered adequate without such things.

[schild]

So, wait, I was right?

Thanks.

[Ookii]

So, wait, I was right?

Thanks.

It seems clan use 30 in UT and 33 in Source stuff when they're playing seriously.

Wrong

There's really no reason to downgrade.

Wrong

Basically, it makes it easier for him to hit me, and harder for me to hit him. Mostly because at any given time, the person with the lowest framerate has the hardest time knowing where he, himself, is - but has the exact location of other players at any given frame.

Wrong

[schild]

Thanks for the explanation. I will kick you in the shins when you get home. Right in the goddamn shins.

[Cory Jacobs]

Ookii you're a god damn nay sayer....

[Strazos]

As someone playing from the east coast and on an average PC (at best), I vote against a 100-tickrate server. Not sure I'd like 66 either, as I'm pretty sure I can't maintain 66 fps in hot fights, at least at my current settings.

[rattran]

Well, an experiment could always be made. It might be better, might not.

You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

[Megrim]

So, wait, I was right?

Thanks.

I'm sorry, but i am having a little difficulty in following your line of though. You want to artificially limit anyone with a decent system and a good connection, in the name of providing a 'fair' environment for those that don't?

If i understand correctly, i can see merit in this notion; but since neither you nor i (correct me if i'm wrong) possess clear data on how many people playing on the f13 server are capable of sustaining a steady 100 or near-100 framerate, i don't see how you can argue against upgrading on that basis alone.

[Der Helm]

If i understand correctly, i can see merit in this notion; but since neither you nor i (correct me if i'm wrong) possess clear data on how many people playing on the f13 server are capable of sustaining a steady 100 or near-100 framerate, i don't see how you can argue against upgrading on that basis alone.

Certanly not me ...

[Venkman]

I just want to get on the F13 server. Both full every time I've looked. Steam doesn't seem to have a queue/waiting-list function either. Would love to have the latter with decisions made either by an online admin or by code they set.

Lotta work though.

[JWIV]

I just want to get on the F13 server. Both full every time I've looked. Steam doesn't seem to have a queue/waiting-list function either. Would love to have the latter with decisions made either by an online admin or by code they set.

Lotta work though.

There's a knob you can turn to set it to either notify you when a slot opens or to auto-join.

[bhodi]

Join your random server, bring up the steam overly, select the f13 server, select join when a slot becomes avail, and then hide the overlay. Sooner or later, while you're playing, you'll hear a sound and your game will freeze as you join the f13 server.

[Ookii]

Or just IM any mod who is online, and we'll open up a slot.

Remember you have to SPAM join, you're usually not the only person wanting to join.

[MrHat]

Join your random server, bring up the steam overly, select the f13 server, select join when a slot becomes avail, and then hide the overlay. Sooner or later, while you're playing, you'll hear a sound and your game will freeze as you join the f13 server.

Just do this.

Gets you warmed up too.

[Venkman]

Ooh, nice. Gonna check that out.

In other news, the Steam overlay works nicely with WoW too, if you launch WoW from Steam. Wouldn't recommend that for low-ram systems. 26mb process is still 26mb (though less than some freakin' IM clients). But the cleanliness of the overlay is nice.

[Trippy]

And BTW, OMFG Nerf Spies already. 

I'm waiting for this to turn green.

No kidding.  I LOVE playing the Spy, it's my most successful class, but it is trivial to counter them.  The only time I'm ever effective is if the
opposing side is too busy and not paranoid enough.

The thing I hate the most about the Spy is the sapper ability which forces an Engineer to babysit his equipment on many if not most maps. The Engineer is far less fun to play in TF2 compared to the earlier versions. I don't mind there being another counter for sentries but not at the expense of ruining another class.

[bhodi]

The thing I hate the most about the Spy is the sapper ability which forces an Engineer to babysit his equipment on many if not most maps. The Engineer is far less fun to play in TF2 compared to the earlier versions. I don't mind there being another counter for sentries but not at the expense of ruining another class.

Er, I think engineers have always been expected to stay near their constructions. In TF and TFC, you had grenade spam so your sentry was always in danger from basically every class.

Though you suggest that the engineer is far less fun to play, obviously it isn't for most people since engineer is the most popular class based on the percentage of people who play them on various maps. You practically have to beg people with "I don't think we need 4 engineers on offense".

[Morfiend]

I just want to get on the F13 server. Both full every time I've looked.

What they said about Auto-Join.

Also, it seems several other clans have found our server. Every time I have joined over the last few days there is usually 3-5+ members of another clan playing on the server. Not that I mind really, but it sucks when you get stuck on the team that the clan isnt on, with the Demoman who doesnt know that when he is glowing bright blue and shiny he doesnt need to run and hide in a corner.