Mass Effect drops Nov. 20

[Tannhauser]

Didn't see this posted anywhere, got the info from xbox.com.
 
I want this game more than Halo3, maybe even more than world peace.

[schild]

Whoa.

How the hell does one get hyped about this title so much after the last 5 Bioware titles?

I'm hoping it's 10% as good as their BIS collaborative stuff.

[Big Gulp]

How the hell does one get hyped about this title so much after the last 5 Bioware titles?

Because they were all good?

Now go back to your Garry's Mod.

[schild]

How the hell does one get hyped about this title so much after the last 5 Bioware titles?

Because they were all good?

Now go back to your Garry's Mod.

No, they were all mediocre in a sea of western RPG trash.

Which, ironically, this will be as well. Hasn't been a good western RPG since... well, let's be honest, BIS was around.

[Big Gulp]

Which, ironically, this will be as well. Hasn't been a good western RPG since... well, let's be honest, BIS was around.

Do we really want to get into this?  I'd just as soon not attack you for your deviant, perverted Japanophilia, but hey, I will if need be.

Your move, sucka.

[schild]

Go on, make a list.

By the way, it was your move when I dropped the BIS name.

[Wolf]

So, KOTOR sucked?

[schild]

So, KOTOR sucked?

You're motherfucking right it did.

The graphics were dick.
A Good story couldn't be wrapped in a Star Wars shell if fucking Orson Welles himself penned the motherfucker.
The endings were both complete and utter failures.
The dark/light side was based in a world of bullshit.
Even the sound ranged from questionable to crap.

BIS pooped better games than this.

Other than Lionheart.

[Morfiend]

So, KOTOR sucked?

Come on, we all know shcild hates fun.

Japanese Panty Rippers on the other hand....

[Big Gulp]

Go on, make a list.

Jade Empire
Elder Scrolls: Oblivion
KOTOR
KOTOR II (okay, they screwed the pooch with the ending, otherwise, better than the previous game)
Arx Fatalis
Vampire: Bloodlines
Deus Ex
Gothic
Gothic II

And just to preemptively counter whatever argument you may have, I give you exhibits A and B:







You can turn in your man card any time you'd like.

[Rasix]

Whoa.

How the hell does one get hyped about this title so much after the last 5 Bioware titles?

I'm hoping it's 10% as good as their BIS collaborative stuff.

I've give you Jade Empire as a let down and possibly Neverwinter Nights since it took 2 expansions to make it decent.  That's all I'll give you.   KOTOR and both BGs?  No sorry, good games no matter what YOU think of them.

That opens the door for Mass Effect to be disappointing, especially if the combat is ultimately unsatisfying as it was with Jade Empire.  Either way, it'll be worth a purchase and a play through, just like Jade Empire was even with all of its faults.

Are any of their games comparative with either Fallout or Planescape?  BG2, possibly.  But this isn't about BIS v Bioware, don't change the goddamn argument to one you know you can win. 

Edit: Why do I feel a daywalker for being able to appreciate both Japanese and Western RPGs? 

[Wolf]

Don't really agree with everything, but I'd add ToEE to that list if you are a DnD fan :)

[Sky]

 

[schild]

Huh? BIS helped with the Baldur's Gates games if not did more than most of the work.

As for Deus Ex, I'll obviously give you that. That said, I had my dates reversed when I typed that, thought Planescape was 2000 and Deus Ex was 1999. Whoops.

Jade Empire
Elder Scrolls: Oblivion
KOTOR
KOTOR II (okay, they screwed the pooch with the ending, otherwise, better than the previous game)
Arx Fatalis
Vampire: Bloodlines
Gothic
Gothic II

You have ONE game on this list on par with BIS titles.

It's called Vampire. The rest doesn't even remotely compare.

Rasix, my point is Bioware has proven they are f'ing useless without BIS. Why would I change the subject? The quality of the games before BIS folding compared to what Bioware did afterwards couldn't be more glaringly different. I mean, comeon, Baldur's Gate era vs the rest of that shit?

Also, way to use square titles as representative of the japanese industry, Gulp. Swing and a miss.
 

Edit: Why do I feel a daywalker for being able to appreciate both Japanese and Western RPGs?

I can appreciate both. When they don't suck. For every shitty western RPG, there are 10 shitty JRPGs. But I'm done giving western devs the benefit of the doubt. It's not 2000 and they have an absolutely shitty track record for the better part of the decade.

[Big Gulp]

Also, way to use square titles as representative of the japanese industry, Gulp. Swing and a miss.

You mean Japanese RPG's aren't all filled with effeminate man-boys, nonsensical quasi-mystical/religious bullshit, and teenage angst?  I call bullshit.  I think I've summed up the situation pretty well.

[Bunk]

So, KOTOR sucked?

You're motherfucking right it did.

The graphics were dick.
A Good story couldn't be wrapped in a Star Wars shell if fucking Orson Welles himself penned the motherfucker.
The endings were both complete and utter failures.
The dark/light side was based in a world of bullshit.
Even the sound ranged from questionable to crap.

BIS pooped better games than this.

Other than Lionheart.

You go to Hell! You go to Hell and you die!"-Mr. Garrison

[schild]

You mean Japanese RPG's aren't all filled with effeminate man-boys, nonsensical quasi-mystical/religious bullshit, and teenage angst?  I call bullshit.  I think I've summed up the situation pretty well.

And Western RPGs have nearly no style, are fucking CHOCK FULL of bullshit lore and relgious trash, and have adults written like teenagers with the same sort of angst but with a better grasp of english. There's a reason Deus Ex and Planescape and Vampire stand out among the crowd.

By the way -

Effeminate man-boys, nonsensical quasi-mystical/religious bullshit and teenage angst is the fucking definition of everything associated with Star Wars.

[Signe]

I never understood the problem with effeminate man-boys.  Most of the man-boys I know are effeminate.  It's why I like them.  Also, you lot have no room to complain.  Do you how long us women have had to play games with no female option at all?  Fucking hell!  We're STILL playing them!

Sometimes I just have to growl.

[Montague]

You mean Japanese RPG's aren't all filled with effeminate man-boys, nonsensical quasi-mystical/religious bullshit, and teenage angst?  I call bullshit.  I think I've summed up the situation pretty well.

And Western RPGs have nearly no style, are fucking CHOCK FULL of bullshit lore and relgious trash, and have adults written like teenagers with the same sort of angst but with a better grasp of english. There's a reason Deus Ex and Planescape and Vampire stand out among the crowd.

By the way -

Effeminate man-boys, nonsensical quasi-mystical/religious bullshit and teenage angst is the fucking definition of everything associated with Star Wars.

All we need now is Schild slagging Linux and we will have a forum-crashing Nerd-Rage Trifecta all in this handy little thread.

[Signe]

Bah.  Linux.  Stupid Unix emulator.

[Morfiend]

Isnt this about as manly as they get?

[murdoc]

That transvestite looks awfully angry.

[Murgos]

Is this entire thread really just Schild bashing Mass Effect for no real reason?

[schild]

Is this entire thread really just Schild bashing Mass Effect for no real reason?

Nope, just wanted to kill the hype train for a way overhyped game. It's not something worth frothing about, imo.

[Bunk]

No such thing as too much frothing. Much like I bought my PS2 for GTA, I bought my 360 for Mass Effect. Bioware is one of the few remaining companies that seems to remember that plot and story are a vital ingredient in an RPG.

I won't argue with you on specifics - I loved NWN HotU, KotoR, and Jade Empire. Mass Effect could be poop in a box and I'll still be enough of a fanboi to love it.

You want to convince me that JRPGs are worth while, go right ahead. No need to make it an us vs them.

Point me at a JRPG with the following, and I'll play it and give you an honest opinion:

 - At least some degree of character creation/design (Don't make me play as Tidus the Wonderdouch)
 - A combat system that is not FFish (ugh)
 - A decent story, preferably not too linear, with some choice to my character's actions
 - Half decent graphics (ideally where I don't appear to be 6 years old)

[Tannhauser]

Mass Effects lets you
-Fully customize your character, your teammates, your equipment and vehicles
-Lets you explore a brand new galaxy along the main storyline or off the beaten track
-Incredible new graphics and a new way to interact in dialog, facial expressions, etc.
-Real time combat or you can pause the action to order your teammates more tactically

Japanese RPG's lets you
Pretend you're a 10 year old hemaphrodite swinging a blade longer than a tractor-trailer

As an avid RPG'er why in god's name would I NOT be in a froth for ME?  American RPG's kick Jap RPG's asses when it come to storylines as well. I'm gonna get in the Normandy, pick a star system and just start exploring.  How many Jap games allow you that freedom?

Mass Effect advances RPG's as well, I don't see too many Jap games expanding the genre, just more and more FF knock offs.

(the term Jap not meant as an insult)
 

[schild]

I'm not going to argue about freedom. At least not in world-sense.

But there's not a single Western RPG that allows you as much character freedom as any of the Disgaea games and there has not been a western RPG with a storyline that touched them (1 or 2, or makai kingdom, or soul nomad) since the Planescape/Deus Ex golden days.

I'm sorry you can't deal with the art. But pigeonholing a game because of it, well, it makes you look like a gibbering moron.

See, the thing is, I play AND ENJOY western RPGs and JRPGs. I'm just not going to froth for something from a company that hasn't delivered in the past half-decade. And they're only further proving that by hiring Shadowbane 2.0 as their MMOG dev team. Surely I'd LOVE to be proven otherwise, but it's just not likely. I'll play Mass Effect like the rest of you, but I don't have that much of a hardon for running around space. I highly doubt they're going to do it better than Rogue Galaxy. Sure, tehre might be more planet-hopping, but I expect a far less lively world and more OMG THERE'S WAR HERE TOO.

[Signe]

I also enjoy both sorts of rpgs.  I probably like Japanese rpgs better, though.  I do wish they allowed more customisation, however.  I'd love to be able to customise the look of my 10 year old hermaphrodite character.  Righ is looking forward to Mass Effect, however, and having enjoyed KOTOR is probably the reason why.  Anyway, that's not really what I want to say.  What I REALLY want to say is that it takes longer to type "(the term Jap not meant as an insult)" than it does "Japanese."  THAT'S what I REALLY wanted to say! 
 

[Tannhauser]

What can I say I work for the government.  :-D

 

[Tebonas]

Some Japanese RPGs could really be improved just by changing the art style. Not that it ever kept me from playing a game, but I enjoy seeing my effeminate manboy main characters dying during the game more than I probably should.

And Mass Effect doesn't have to give me a blowjob and be the best game ever. It has to be finished when it comes out and it will already have exceeded my expectations for modern role playing games.

[Kail]

Mass Effects lets you
-Fully customize your character, your teammates, your equipment and vehicles

Is that true?  I was kind of feeling "meh" on Mass Effect because it looked (from the early videos I'd seen) like there was fairly little customization, at least for the main character.  Gender, already chosen.  Name, already chosen (this really bugged me).  Job, already chosen.  Background, already chosen.  It looked like the main character was less customizable than JC in Deus Ex, to me.  Has that changed since whatever I saw last, or was I misinterpreting something?

[Amaron]

Huh? BIS helped with the Baldur's Gates games if not did more than most of the work.

I don't understand your love for BIS.  They don't deserve credit for much of anything at all regarding BG.  They tried to copy it with the IWD stuff but basically could only do a passable effort.   The BG console games were trash as well of course.

I'm not really sure I agree with giving Black Isle credit for Fallout either.  The game was in development for many years prior to the formation of the Black Isle studio.  If I recall correctly Black Isle wasn't even named till a year after Fallouts release.   Tim Cain, Leonard Boyarsky and Jason D. Anderson left after laying the foundation for Fallout 2, to form Trokia.

Planescape was made by mixing fallout stuff with infinity engine stuff but was obviously very good and thus the only reason why I won't say BIS was purely riding on other peoples coat tails.

More on topic Kotor is a masterpiece.   It pretty much nailed what it was supposed to do in every way possible.  It's amazing a game that was designed for a crappy console managed to be such a good and proper RPG.

Jade Empire had some bad mistakes that worry me but it clearly was good in the area's Bioware is strong at.   Bioware has not ever worked on creating certain RPG mechanics since they always used the dnd stuff.   Thus some mistakes had to be expected.   Mass Effect is really Biowares chance to prove that those mistakes were learning errors instead of a lack of ability.  If it's mediocre for the same reasons Jade Empire was then I'll firmly agree further Bioware games won't deserve much anticipation.

[LK]

Yeah I'll have a tarnished opinion of Mass Effect if they are still using d20 shit.

[Amaron]

Has that changed since whatever I saw last, or was I misinterpreting something?

From Wiki:
Commander Shepard is the fictional hero (or heroine) in the Mass Effect series of video games created by BioWare. Shepard's gender, physical characteristics, and first name are determined by the player, and in effect becomes the player's "alter ego". [1] Bioware also provides a default character model that the player is free to use instead of creating their own.

Basically everything is customizable about the main character from what I learned perusing for 1 minute.  I would guess his storyline job of "guy/gal who saves our bacon" is probably set in stone but I don't think the profession/class/whatever is predetermined.

[Trippy]

I don't understand your love for BIS.  They don't deserve credit for much of anything at all regarding BG.  They tried to copy it with the IWD stuff but basically could only do a passable effort.   The BG console games were trash as well of course.

BIS did do Planescape themselves but otherwise I would agree with you. All the key people (lead designers, lead story writers, lead programmers, etc.) on BG and BG II were/are Bioware people. The role BIS had with the Bioware stuff was as a publisher and not as "co-developer".