2007-08 EPL Thread

[Abagadro]

I didn't see that anyone started this, so what the hell.

Chelsea got quite a gift from the ref today with that questionable penalty kick.

[sigil]

We had left the conversation in the Fantasy league discussion, but this will get a wider audience.

To sum up:

Fucking Spurs.

God damn spurs.

Thank Christ, about time Spurs.

Also, Beckham threadjack repeated, for no other reason than it was the most entertaining game I saw this weekend. And again, entertaining, not best played.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt1vioaJYBo

[HaemishM]

I didn't see that anyone started this, so what the hell.

Chelsea got quite a gift from the ref today with that questionable penalty kick.

Don't I know it. I was screaming at the TV. What the fuck was wrong with that ref? He was fucking awful, is what. He got card happy and just couldn't stop himself. Liverpool outplayed Chelsea plain and simple. Of course, once Chelsea got that gift pen, they got up to their usual douchebag tricks of pestering the ref every single time the whistle blew. But how telling is it that on the supposed foul that led to the penalty, not even Chelsea were arguing for the pen? Hell, the only person on the pitch who thought it was required was the goddamn ref. Btu at least Torres scored that goal, which was fucking fantastic. If you haven't seen it, you should, it was a great sign of things to come.

Man City beating Man U? That's so lovely. Guess without Ronaldo or Rooney, they really are an average team, which is quite strange considering how much money they piled into Nani and Tevez. 1 goal in 3 games is brutally bad for them.

Arsenal is looking particularly vulnerable in goal. In the both their games, Lehman has let in some seriously soft goals. The one against Fulham was a goddamn crime, and the one against Blackburn he should have had without trouble.

[sigil]

I guess all Sven needed was a few less Brits on the team.

[Hoax]

In Man Utd's defense they are without Solkjaar or whoever you spell it Saha hell they dont even have Smith anymore.  Its not just no Rooney its no strikers period.

Nani wasn't supposed to be starting until after xmas and Tevez will take some time to settle like he did with West Ham.  Do I think they can contend for the title after dropping 7 pts in 3 games?  Not really.

It should be really fun to see that squad in the Champion's League if they already know the league is out of reach though.  I wonder what kind of odds I could get right now on them winning it.

[HaemishM]

So who wants to give odds that Arsenal drops out of the top 4 this year? With the shaky way Lehmann is playing, it's a wonder they haven't lost both their games. However, I don't see many credible challengers. Bolton has been total shit. I thought Everton might have been in there with the way their offense was clicking, until they ran up against Reading. Tim Howard vs. Marcus Hahnemann was a damn fine game. It should have been Tottenham challenging Arsenal, but they've already shown that without Dawson and King, their defense is awful. Could Newcastle have gotten that much better from Big Sam's influence?

And does anyone think Man City has what it takes to contend the whole year?

[sigil]

So who wants to give odds that Arsenal drops out of the top 4 this year? With the shaky way Lehmann is playing, it's a wonder they haven't lost both their games. However, I don't see many credible challengers. Bolton has been total shit. I thought Everton might have been in there with the way their offense was clicking, until they ran up against Reading. Tim Howard vs. Marcus Hahnemann was a damn fine game. It should have been Tottenham challenging Arsenal, but they've already shown that without Dawson and King, their defense is awful. Could Newcastle have gotten that much better from Big Sam's influence?

And does anyone think Man City has what it takes to contend the whole year?

It may be more than two of the usual suspects out of contention.

But it's a marathon, not a sprint, that's the thing that kills teams.

[Hoax]

Honestly I like Arsenal this year.  Lehman is a crazy bastage but they play the best football in England and have only gotten younger, faster and more talented over the last two years from where I'm sitting.

[Nonentity]

This thread isn't about Eastern Plaguelands?

*Goes and wikipedias EPL*

[rk47]

Well, man utd is gonna face spurs next. It could be their first win of the season, thinking of just betting on that. But will see the injury list before doing so.

[sigil]

Spurs will win this one just to fuck with their fans.

[HaemishM]

Honestly I like Arsenal this year.  Lehman is a crazy bastage but they play the best football in England and have only gotten younger, faster and more talented over the last two years from where I'm sitting.

They play pretty football, but not the best football. They have serious problems with heading balls in the box, and they still look for the perfect pass too much for my liking. They lack a killer instinct. Chelsea is the only team in the top 4 I see with that killer instinct SO FAR, the ability to just turn it on and put an opponent down even when they are behind.

I forget, are Spurs playing at home or at Old Trafford? If it's at home, I give it a 50-50 chance at a 0-0 draw, if it's at Old Trafford, I'm thinking 1-1 or 2-1 Man U.

[sigil]

It's at OT.

Probably a win for United, but I'll watch all the same.

It's sunday, FYI.

[Tige]

They play pretty football, but not the best football.

Well said.  Watching Arsenal move the ball down the pitch is the closest a Euro team gets to Brazilian precision passing.  Lehman needs to get his head together if Arsenal wants to make a run this year.  He's solid until some constant pressure is applied or a goal is scored against him.  After that he looks like his brain goes on vacation.

Chelsea got quite a gift from the ref today with that questionable penalty kick.

Aye.  As noted in the postgame show that call was in effect a 6 point swing in the standings.


On a side note.  Is La Liga and the Bundesliga not welcome in this thread?  EPL is probably the most well known league but frankly I can't agree they have the best futbol. 

[Hoax]

I would welcome it, I can't get anything but Seria A & EPL on TV myself so I would love to hear about La Liga and hell even L1 (the French one) in this thread.

[naum]

On a side note.  Is La Liga and the Bundesliga not welcome in this thread?  EPL is probably the most well known league but frankly I can't agree they have the best futbol. 

By "best futbol" do you mean club strength or entertainment value for spectator?

Since I got all these soccer channels (FSC, Gol, and another that escapes me at the moment), I've enjoyed watching all the different leagues and I would put EPL at highest level, though I confess I'm not much of a soccer aficionado, it appears that after World Cup competition, the best of the league play is EPL where MSL is like near the absolute bottom of the list (and I hate watching American soccer matches on painted American football fields…). Bundesliga and Spanish leagues (as well as all the South American leagues which are very fun to watch…) are good too. The Italian league (at least in terms of style of play), I not so enamored with…

[Tige]

I'm not too familiar with Le Championnat other than they are renown for low scoring affairs, even by soccer standards.  However with players like Ribberi, Henri and others populating Euro leagues, not to mention their World Cup performance they can hold their own.  Same for Serie A in Italy.

By "best futbol" do you mean club strength or entertainment value for spectator?

Since I got all these soccer channels (FSC, Gol, and another that escapes me at the moment), I've enjoyed watching all the different leagues and I would put EPL at highest level, though I confess I'm not much of a soccer aficionado, it appears that after World Cup competition, the best of the league play is EPL where MSL is like near the absolute bottom of the list (and I hate watching American soccer matches on painted American football fields…). Bundesliga and Spanish leagues (as well as all the South American leagues which are very fun to watch…) are good too. The Italian league (at least in terms of style of play), I not so enamored with…

EPL is definately top tier but personnally I don't see them being head and shoulders above the Bundesliga and definately not above La Liga.  Serie A in Italy also can compete.  Club strength in all of these are on par with each other in their top 10 clubs.  There are a hanful of really, really good South American clubs who basically buy players from competing clubs that pose a threat.   The clubs from, say, Paraguay can't compete salary wise with the SA powerhouses.  I completely agree about watching MSL on painted fields, it sucks.  I might break down and get Setana this season, I think that may be the channel you are talking about.  It's $15 monthly on DTV.  I've got FSC and GOL which is decent but Setana offers alot of matches.

[HaemishM]

Setanta is WORTH IT. I ditched HBO for it and have never looked back.

As for leagues, I think La Liga probably has the "best" league, in terms of quality of football, followed by EPL and Bundesliga in that order. The Spainish game is usually just so free flowing but not because of poor defensive play. The players are top-drawer for the most part, even down into the mid-table. EPL is second, IMO, but is still my favorite league for a whole variety of reasons, the main one being Liverpool. EPL is also a lot more physical. The Bundesliga has some decent quality, but is hampered by a lack of creative play from many of the sides. I fear for my Werder Bremen side this year, because without Klose (and with Frings being down for a month), they just don't have a guy to get the ball in the net consistently. Sanogo looks decent, but he's not even half a Klose. I actually rank the Scottish Premier League alongside the Championship in quality and entertainment value (both are shown on Setanta). The Champsionship last season was just a fight from start to finish, and it shows in the sides that got promoted. The SPL is just a physical league, lots of hard tackles, small pitches but some quality as well.

I don't watch Le Championat, and Italian style defensive 4-5-1 football bores me to tears. The MLS is definitely down there in terms of quality, with lots of the games looking like a "Chinese fire drill" because of poor defensive and possession play. But I watch because it's my country, and I want football to gain a little respect here. Beckham's presence sure will help.

I warn you, though, if you go for the Setanta and have a Tivo, prepare to while away many hours watching the footie. I can easily manage 7 games a weekend, with some bleedover into the week from the MLS and SPL matches.

[eldaec]

EPL is definately top tier but personnally I don't see them being head and shoulders above the Bundesliga and definately not above La Liga.

The official UEFA rankings can be found here...

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2008.html

Germany really has fallen away in the last few years, probably not least because their TV rights are all fucked up and the the winner of the Bundesliga takes about the same as last place in England.

The Spanish, Italian and English leagues largely stomp on everyone else, which is best amoungst the big 3 is debatable, personally I don't think the Italians have the depth of clubs that Spain and England have, but at the top end you can't squeeze a cigarette paper between them.


Romania have been growing surprisingly strong lately.

[Tige]

Sold me on Setanta, calling after the ENG vs. GER friendly.  My Tivo will finally get some use. 

I agree on the MLS.  My wife gets tired of me yelling things like "Pass it, don't just kick it you fool!"   

I caught the recap of the SWE vs USA friendly.  Defense sucks.  Offense anemic.  Howard in goal was a bright spot.  Speaking of 4-5-1.  I'm still bitter USA went with 4-5-1 in their last World Cup game.  They needed 4 goals  (and some outside help) to have any chance to advance and they still wouldn't put in the extra striker.  As it turned out even if they'd scored four they wouldn't have gone on but damn, at least give yourself a fighting chance.


eldaec -

Never seen that before.  I like the modifiers like AC Milan losing 2 points for "crowd trouble" in 1995. GOIng to have to digest this after the game then get back :)


edit: eldeac posted sametime I did, edited instead of going for post count +1.

[Mr_PeaCH]

I caught the recap of the SWE vs USA friendly.  Defense sucks.  Offense anemic.  Howard in goal was a bright spot. 

GAH!  Spoilers, hellooo?!    :-D

Sooo... are you saying I don't need to watch it or... ?

DVR'd both the ENG GER and SWE USA action for after work.  (west coast)


Oh, and I've been drooling about Setana since I found out about all the stuff they show that FSC doesn't.  But I don't think I'm ready to ditch the whole otherwise sweet cable package I'm getting for a dish just to be able to get Setana... give me a few years to stew on that one; and hopefully my cable provider will get wise in the meantime.  And FSC is pretty good with the EPL stuff.

[Tige]

I caught the recap of the SWE vs USA friendly.  Defense sucks.  Offense anemic.  Howard in goal was a bright spot. 

GAH!  Spoilers, hellooo?!    :-D

Sooo... are you saying I don't need to watch it or... ?

DVR'd both the ENG GER and SWE USA action for after work.  (west coast)


Oh, and I've been drooling about Setana since I found out about all the stuff they show that FSC doesn't.  But I don't think I'm ready to ditch the whole otherwise sweet cable package I'm getting for a dish just to be able to get Setana... give me a few years to stew on that one; and hopefully my cable provider will get wise in the meantime.  And FSC is pretty good with the EPL stuff.

Damn sorry Mr_Peach.  I'll keep that in mind

[HaemishM]

FSC carries about 4 EPL games a weekend, Setanta does another 4. With both packages, you can generally see every single big 4 game, and a good selection of the other teams each weekend. And I think only Directv carries.

Plus, SPL and more international Europe matches. And Le Championat and the English Championship, and sometimes even English League One and Two. And FA Cup ties, and UEFA Cup and Champions League as far back as the group stages as well.

Fuck, they should be paying me for the good things I'll say about Setanta. It also carries Rugy and Australian Rules Football if that's your bag as well.

[sigil]

If you're not demanding  absolute perfection and had a fast connection, Setanta broadband pumped out to a standard definition TV does well for me. It's a little washed out and you get  a little bit of the old artifact bug from time to time,  but  if the alternative is no Setanta, I'd at least try it out.

Setanta has also upped their quality of production and gotten some new ads as well. Good for them.


Going back to yesterday, the US had two significant problems to go with some promising things in the midfield and goal.

We need a striker. Now. I think it's time to blood Altidore. Get him in against Brazil. in the US.  Maybe even the European swing  later this year.  Even still, we're going to have severe trouble with a team like Sweden with  6'.5" guys on the back line.  I'd like to point out that one of those 6'5" Swedes also outran "Speedster" DMB in game situations.

Second, if Jonathan Bornstein is our one great hope for left back, we're truly fucked.

It's not always the coaches fault.


As a side note, Spurs seem to be handling their vaunted run for  Champions league in  true Spurs fashion, with a shaky start and a Coach looking like he's going to get the sack from a backstabbing front office.  Also, Robbo is  shit, but stands up for his club.

[HaemishM]

The USA team's biggest problem is going to be on the back line for quite a while. We have two great goalkeepers in Howard and Hahnemann. But just looking at the MLS, we have no Euro quality defenders, which is why the MLS suffers as a league. Defense is just terrible, and it's why Becks got 2 assists against the Red Bulls the other night. MLS and American defenders have NO CLUE how to handle that level of quality service.

Yet.

As for strikers, yeah we need to put Altidore in there with Eddie Johnson. Those two could burn the eyebrows off most defenses.

[Hoax]

Did they play Justin Map(p?) for 90 minutes?  If not fucking shame on the US soccer org as usual, he was the only interesting new player besides that guy who did a good imitation of a solid center attacking mid throughout the entire gold cup.

I didn't watch any of the friendlies myself, but LoL@England.  God I can't wait for them to draw Israel at home and be truly fucked out of Euro '08.

[HaemishM]

Justin Mapp should be playing A LOT more for the US team. They didn't get him nearly enough minutes in the Copa America or the Gold Cup. Faehlhaerber (or however it's spelled) is decent, too.

[sigil]

Copa America showed why Mapp shouldn't play more  for the Nats.

His tricks work well against second string Danes and  CONCACRAP, but he was getting owned by los Sudamericanos.

Here is the US dilemma:
1: The standard is now set, Qualification to the world Cup is no longer  sufficient. We want advancement. and to guarantee a good shot at advancement means seeding, Seeding means we dominate  as much of the world as possible.

2:We're young. We're  thin and worse, we're losing top american prospects to other nations. I'm looking at you Mexico and Italy.

As much as folks like to rag on MLS, if you want the nats to ever mean anything, you better start hoping   the MLS academies start digging up good talent to fatten up the pool. That and the cool new school Brad Friedel opened up over here  and a dozen others like it.

Fortunately, good soccer talent can have a different body type and skill set from the other sports, so it's not like it's a total lost cause.

[HaemishM]

I think in about 5-10 years, you're going to start seeing a result from those academies. Soccer has gotten almost as big as football and little league for the young (pre-10 years old) kids, starting in the 90's, and those kids are about to become adults. The biggest hinderance is that high schools in many places don't have soccer programs.

[Mr_PeaCH]

Not EPL but...

Anyone watch the much ballyhooed L.A. Beckhams v. Chivas USA "Super Classico" (!!!) match on ESPN Soccer Night in America last night?  Boy, Becks sure got his side fired up with the nice stare-down at the end of the half; so much so that his side forgot to play any defense in the 2nd.  Most exciting part of the night was getting to see the end of the WNBA 1st round playoff game going into triple OT before they would cut over to MLS.

Back to EPL; looks like a good slate of games on FSC this weekend with Arsenal hosting undefeated ManCity, a good Everton team hosting Bolton and of course the ManU - Tottenham match on Sunday.  With lots of 'stars' like Berbatov, Ronaldo and Rooney all out the match still has a lot of significance as both teams are off to lousy starts.

[sigil]

As much fun as it is to laugh at the Galaxy, let's see their injury list.

OUT: DF Troy Roberts (R ankle); DF Chris Albright (R hamstring); MF Kelly Gray (R calf); DF Abel Xavier (L knee); DF Quavas Kirk (L foot);

PROBABLE: MF Cobi Jones (R hip); DF Kyle Veris (R hip); MF David Beckham (L ankle); FW Edson Buddle (L Achilles)

All four starters out. one backup questionable. One Defensive midfielder out.

Harmse has been moved from the bench to the midfield, because Becks doesn't play enough D right now.

Becks had to get Xavier to lend a hand second half. No anchor in the back against Galindo, Rastov, marsch and Klejstan? Hello 3-0.

A team with a thin d that gets hammered by the injury bug on their d line? Goodbye playoffs.

[naum]

What is wrong with these pictures?

[HaemishM]

Hmmm, I bet Landon Donovan is about ready to stab a motherfucker over that Galaxy poster.

[sigil]

Hmmm, I bet Landon Donovan is about ready to stab a motherfucker over that Galaxy poster.

The great irony is that unless the Gals get a second DP slot, Landon has to leave or take a massive cut in pay this year. Originally it was thought that Houston would be giving up the slot to their sister team, Now it appears that the Dynamo will do their own thing, leavng the gals to scramble. San Jose would be open, which would complete the circle, since LD left San Jose for LA because he didn't want to be out of SoCal.

Meanwhile Houston keeps on keeping on. Dallas signed Denilson as their DP.

The other thing wrong is there's no Luciano Emilio or Fred on DC Uniteds poster. Without them , United sucks ass.

[Hoax]

I'm recording (vhs old skool) the Juve game on Saturday & the Utd game on Sunday, going to watch most of if not all the Arsenal and Blackburn games on FSC live'ish.

So fucking spoiler boxes on the Utd results at least until Monday heathens, also none of this Spurs gah ooooh  wooo DAMN edited posts stuff either, that counts as spoilers.  I'm going to try to stay away from the thread but I will want to post about the Saturday games since they are really interesting match ups that will tell us a great deal about the four teams involved.

Although Yakabu to Everton = I hope they challenge for a CL spot this year.  I already loved their team w/ Cahill and Arteta this only pushes them into super badass.  Which is surprising considering how much I hate English strikers, but Johnson is my favorite out of the bunch until I see this Bent kid do something consistently.

On another note...

Anyone been able to figure out why Villa is pussyfooting around so damn much this year in the xfer market?  I mean have they signed anyone but Harewood and Reo-Coker (both signings I like, fuck WHU that org is poison to players) this year?