Relatively new site on MMOG theory and design.

[Lindorn]

Lindorn, how good do you think Darkfall will be?

It's really tough to say honestly.  Since so little information exists about the details of the project it is difficult to say.

The things we do know are that.

1. The project is very well funded
2. The team started "official" development in 2003 (so it hasn't been that long in the scheme of things...hell look at TR)
3. They have a lot of good talent (although admittedly 0 game design experience).  Most of their talent comes from guys with previous experience designing AI for military simulations and programming for said computers/equipment.

I will admit that I have a lot of "faith" in the Darkfall Online project specifically because I really think that arbitrarily or otherwise these guys have the right idea.  I have confidence in that idea, but it takes a lot of skill and understanding of the intricacies of virtual worlds to really implement properly.  I think people's ideas of what MMORPG's can and should be are experiencing a paradigm shift away from things like level treadmills and "item whoring".  While it may be a slow process, Darkfall definitely is an example of what I believe more virtual worlds will be like in the future.

It encourages a rich and open ended social dynamic as well as allowing players the freedom to participate in a world that they can actually impact in the long term.  "Good" is a relative term but I think a lot of people desire to make a difference in the worlds they play in and want the ability to explore more than just the menial and trite aspects of MMORPG's.  How many more EQ's can we play before the industry starts to implode on itself?

So what will make a game like Darkfall "good" to me is the open ended game play.  Of course a system of consequences for asshats is necessary, but at the same time allowing player organizations to dominate the happenings of a virtual world.  Things like politics, diplomacy, economics, intrigue, social dynamics, interaction, adaptation, military conflict, building, trading, and most importantly changing.  No instances or other divisive barriers that remove players ability to interact with each other.

I think Darkfall will be great if it delivers.  Will it deliver?  I don't know, but I definitely think they have the right idea and are following the advice of Richard Bartle in the opening pages of his book.

"Before we ask ourselves what classes we want to have in our game, we should ask ourselves why we should have classes to begin with"

It is really important that more devs start questioning the status quo, because a lot of less-than-optimal choices have been made in the past.

[Engels]

See, Lindhor, you didn't make a mistake. Posting a link to your website is fundamentally a neutral act on the internets. What was a misjudgement was your inability to predict that said 'neutral' action would be seen here as marketing and propaganda and pretentious etc etc. As I said, F13 is a special crowd. It has a fair degree of internet acumen, for certain, and your 'mistake' was not seeing that its earned that acument precisely by taking your type of content and beating it to a bloody pulp.

Furthermore, you opened yourself up to widespread derision in thinking you somehow would be spared.

F13: Noone is spared here.

[Signe]

Lindorn, how good do you think Darkfall will be?

It's really tough to say honestly.  Since so little information exists about the details of the project it is difficult to say.

The things we do know are that.

1. The project is very well funded
2. The team started "official" development in 2003 (so it hasn't been that long in the scheme of things...hell look at TR)
3. They have a lot of good talent (although admittedly 0 game design experience).  Most of their talent comes from guys with previous experience designing AI for military simulations and programming for said computers/equipment.

I will admit that I have a lot of "faith" in the Darkfall Online project specifically because I really think that arbitrarily or otherwise these guys have the right idea.  I have confidence in that idea, but it takes a lot of skill and understanding of the intricacies of virtual worlds to really implement properly.  I think people's ideas of what MMORPG's can and should be are experiencing a paradigm shift away from things like level treadmills and "item whoring".  While it may be a slow process, Darkfall definitely is an example of what I believe more virtual worlds will be like in the future.

It encourages a rich and open ended social dynamic as well as allowing players the freedom to participate in a world that they can actually impact in the long term.  "Good" is a relative term but I think a lot of people desire to make a difference in the worlds they play in and want the ability to explore more than just the menial and trite aspects of MMORPG's.  How many more EQ's can we play before the industry starts to implode on itself?

So what will make a game like Darkfall "good" to me is the open ended game play.  Of course a system of consequences for asshats is necessary, but at the same time allowing player organizations to dominate the happenings of a virtual world.  Things like politics, diplomacy, economics, intrigue, social dynamics, interaction, adaptation, military conflict, building, trading, and most importantly changing.  No instances or other divisive barriers that remove players ability to interact with each other.

I think Darkfall will be great if it delivers.  Will it deliver?  I don't know, but I definitely think they have the right idea and are following the advice of Richard Bartle in the opening pages of his book.

"Before we ask ourselves what classes we want to have in our game, we should ask ourselves why we should have classes to begin with"

It is really important that more devs start questioning the status quo, because a lot of less-than-optimal choices have been made in the past.

[cmlancas]

I wanted someone else to have a crack at that one first, but I want to add my piece too:

 

[Hoax]

Seriously Lindor just ride it out, or fuck off for a week and come back and just post in threads where you have something useful to add most of us will have forgotten all about this.

Or go away.  I hate being the 8th person on this page to explain how the internet works but its like you just don't get it.

Fucking Darkfall, jesus wept man, HE WEPT FOR YOUR MISGUIDED SOUL.  Even I'm not retarded enough to try to say nice things about Darkfall.

[Montague]

Friggin Darkfall?

Jesus Christ on a crutch.

[Rasix]

Lindorn, how good do you think Darkfall will be?

[Stephen Zepp]

Lindorn, how good do you think Darkfall will be?

'xactly---and you fell right into it.

This is an extremely unforgiving crowd--and you got pushed with someone crouched behind your knees just now :(

You've got two options:

1) listen to Hoax's advice, and be careful regarding questions out of the blue--they will probably be designed to see if you can detect the traps.

2) Pull a Grunk, and eventually die off in a fit of frustration or embarrassment.

Personally, I'd just accept the hazing, ignore it completely, and once they (we) realize you aren't responding, they (we) will move on to other more vulnerable targets and you'll be accepted by default.

Note: If you follow my advice, you'll be one of the few (if any) in the past several months to do so. Not quite sure why--it worked for me :P

[Slayerik]

I think you should be forever known as "Pussdaddy". The daddy of all things Pussified. King Pussy is reserved for WUA's carebear ass. Er wait, maybe cmlancas since he missed his hazing.

Pfft, you're the fag who thinks TNG is better than DS9.  You can watch Picard teach Planet Pussulon the value of sharing through the power of political correctness and gentle hugs if you want.  I'll take Sisko punching Q in his motherfucking face, thank you very much.

If I wanna watch ugly bitches and freaky looking bartenders, there's a few bars here on the bad side of Flint I can hit up. At least there I know something might happen. Thats more than can be said for Deepthroat Nine.

And Picard was just a pussy so Riker could be a bad ass. Well, kind of a bad ass.



Hey, isn't this another thread WUA? hehe .....  Anyways, schild is right (I find myself agreeing with him too much lately). You tried to dictate what conversations you would allow. And about the grief title thing. I thought grunk kinda deserved one though :)

[Oban]

Lindorn, how good do you think Darkfall will be?

You are one

[WindupAtheist]

If I wanna watch ugly bitches and freaky looking bartenders, there's a few bars here on the bad side of Flint I can hit up. At least there I know something might happen. Thats more than can be said for Deepthroat Nine.

Ugly bitches?  Tasha Yar looked like Dolph Lungren in a dre...  Well she didn't wear a dress, she just looked like Dolph Lundgren.  Wesley's mom wasn't exactly a MILF either.  The only passable woman on the show was Troi in her tit-shoving bodystocking uniform, and frankly even she wasn't really all that great.  As for freaky bartenders, bitch please.  Two words:  Whoopi Goldberg.

And Picard was just a pussy so Riker could be a bad ass. Well, kind of a bad ass.

Riker just highlighted how pussywhipped the entire show was by demonstrating how very little it took to be considered a badass by local standards.  Sisko makes him look like he's wearing a fucking dress.  I mean, have I pointed out yet that he literally punched out Q?  Socking an omnipotent being in the face is badassery of positively Kirkian proportions.

Shit, Kira was more badass than that god damned fat eunuch Riker.  Kira would fuck Riker's shit up in a fight.  Plus she was hotter than Troi.  I mean she didn't have her tits pushed up to her chin 24/7, but she just seemed like she would be a fucking freak in the sack.

In conclusion, I am right and you are wrong.  While DS9 was far from a perfect show, it owned the shit out of TNG.

 :-D

[Arthur_Parker]

Lindorn, how good do you think Darkfall will be?

You are one

Hey it's not like I wasn't being obvious about it, I even mentioned trammel earlier. 

Sorry Lindorn but even if by some miracle Darkfall makes it to release, there's no way it will be any good.

[WindupAtheist]

Needs more rapping.

[Merusk]

Lindorn, how good do you think Darkfall will be?

You are one

Leprechaun != Troll.  They're fae.   

[Oban]

Leprechaun != Troll.  They're fae.   

That was not trolling, that was some bad ass evil leprechauning.

[Azazel]

Where is the grief title? It makes me sad that he doesn't have that one yet. The masses clamor!

I'm waiting for it.  I better not be wearing this avatar for nothin.

Shut up and talk about something more interesting than this crap. Continuing to circularly post about your own posts is boring.

Grief title? Pah. Do you have anything to talk about beyond the "memememmemememememmeme"? If so, don't bother to reply to this post. Go involve yourself in another thread and try to be interesting.

And Picard was just a pussy so Riker could be a bad ass. Well, kind of a bad ass.

Riker just highlighted how pussywhipped the entire show was by demonstrating how very little it took to be considered a badass by local standards.

OH GOD LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE YOU FUCKING COCKMUNCH!

It's a Star Trek nerdfight.

I'll take Windu over all those guys. At least when he fucked shit up, it stayed fucked up. Erm, right until he fucked up by trusting Little Orphan Annie. Damn. What a dumbass.

[Slayerik]

If I wanna watch ugly bitches and freaky looking bartenders, there's a few bars here on the bad side of Flint I can hit up. At least there I know something might happen. Thats more than can be said for Deepthroat Nine.

Ugly bitches?  Tasha Yar looked like Dolph Lungren in a dre...  Well she didn't wear a dress, she just looked like Dolph Lundgren.  Wesley's mom wasn't exactly a MILF either.  The only passable woman on the show was Troi in her tit-shoving bodystocking uniform, and frankly even she wasn't really all that great.  As for freaky bartenders, bitch please.  Two words:  Whoopi Goldberg.

And Picard was just a pussy so Riker could be a bad ass. Well, kind of a bad ass.

Riker just highlighted how pussywhipped the entire show was by demonstrating how very little it took to be considered a badass by local standards.  Sisko makes him look like he's wearing a fucking dress.  I mean, have I pointed out yet that he literally punched out Q?  Socking an omnipotent being in the face is badassery of positively Kirkian proportions.

Shit, Kira was more badass than that god damned fat eunuch Riker.  Kira would fuck Riker's shit up in a fight.  Plus she was hotter than Troi.  I mean she didn't have her tits pushed up to her chin 24/7, but she just seemed like she would be a fucking freak in the sack.

In conclusion, I am right and you are wrong.  While DS9 was far from a perfect show, it owned the shit out of TNG.

 :-D

I would argue your points, but I couldnt make it through the drivel that was DS9. And I tried to like it.

ANYWAYS!

Back to our regularly scheduled flaming!

[cmlancas]

Trammel.

[WindupAtheist]

It's over Slayerik, I have the high ground!

[Triforcer]

Stop dispensing the advice, this guy won't make it.  If the trolls/malcontents/idiots of F13 were the Batman villains' gallery, this guy would be Orca, and he is already dying in the same way.

[Azazel]

Tell me more of this "Orca"...

[Merusk]

Tell me more of this "Orca"...

After googleing it, you really don't want to know.  So DC and Marvel are both utter shit holes now, eh? Glad I don't read comics much anymore.

[Der Helm]

Tell me more of this "Orca"...

[Triforcer]

That's the exact pic I was thinking of.  As I went through the thread, the OP seemed increasingly like a half-eaten torso, and this just popped to mind. 

[Amaron]

Lindorn how do you feel about Hero's Journey?

[Merusk]

Lindorn how do you feel about Hero's Journey?

Aww, man? We're calling that one VW too?  Crap, I had some small hope it'd happen.  Simu does nice work.

[Slayerik]

I heard Dawn is gonna be top notch.

[Amaron]

Lindorn how do you feel about Hero's Journey?

Aww, man? We're calling that one VW too?  Crap, I had some small hope it'd happen.  Simu does nice work.

Well I figure it deserves honorable mention for being the Duke Nukem of MMO's even if it does manage to come out eventually.

[pants]

I heard Dawn is gonna be top notch.

Not as good as Duke Nukem Forever.  I tell ya, that game is gonna roxor!

EDIT: Curses!  Beaten to the punch with a Duke Nukem reference!

[Morfiend]

So, about the Phantom....

[Lindorn]

listen to Hoax's advice, and be careful regarding questions out of the blue--they will probably be designed to see if you can detect the traps.

It was pretty obviously a trap and I thought about that beforehand.  I just figured I'd answer it because the guy who asked it was one of the few people on this thread that hadn't been a blatant ass yet.

Of course there were going to be 15 posts to the effect of "lololol vaporware".  It's pretty much the same everywhere you go on the internet.  It doesn't bother me.  At least you guys seem to be having fun in this thread, so I guess all is not lost.

[schild]

Yea, but when people around here call things vaporware, they're mostly right.

As in, we're mostly right.

It's how we roll.

[Lindorn]

It may very well be.  I don't have anything to lose by exploring the conceptual design of the game though.

[cmlancas]

No, you have no pride to lose with that post. But we do have much lulz to gain.



Post on, brave soul, post on.

Edit: Clarity is hard fucking hard sometimes.

[Lindorn]

lulz are good for everyone.