5 years and still going

[grunk]

Every year, a new game comes out. and every year it fails to reach the expectations that I have from playing FFXI for the last 5 years. Even games that come out, dont even reach the graphic quality of this game. Nothing that I have played even comes close. Guess my question is, will there ever be something that carrys on what Variant started and what imo, SE made perfect. Will there ever be another one.

Vanguard, was suppose to be it but failed on all levels. Aion could be it, but to me it just looks like a JP-WoW clone. With a new expansion coming out, im sure that FFXI will be around another 5 years but with all the bombs, and the new ones i just dont see there being another.

Grunk
the DRK of remora

[Merusk]

No.

Enjoy.

[Hutch]

In terms of gameplay, there's one thing you can point to in WoW and say, "This is better than FFXI", and that's the fact that you don't have to have a perfect group of 6 to gain xp. FFXI slavishly follows the tank-healer-dps paradigm, and once you're level 8-12 or so, you can kiss solo play goodbye.

In terms of technology, of course, SE limited themselves (imo) by making the game cross-platform to the PS2. I hated the keyboard interface in that game.

Outside of that, I thougt that it was a great game. I tend to agree that nothing has come out since that's better at what FFXI does (i.e. forced-grouping diku-descended mmog).

[grunk]

In terms of gameplay, there's one thing you can point to in WoW and say, "This is better than FFXI", and that's the fact that you don't have to have a perfect group of 6 to gain xp. FFXI slavishly follows the tank-healer-dps paradigm, and once you're level 8-12 or so, you can kiss solo play goodbye.

In terms of technology, of course, SE limited themselves (imo) by making the game cross-platform to the PS2. I hated the keyboard interface in that game.

Outside of that, I thougt that it was a great game. I tend to agree that nothing has come out since that's better at what FFXI does (i.e. forced-grouping diku-descended mmog).

your dead wrong about the perfect party stuff. No, you do not need a perfect party, you do need a balanced party. and what i would define as balance is 3 back line and 3 front line. Now it doesnt matter what they are, as long as they are of that arch type.  As far as the lack of solo play, thats also not true. I have a friend who soloed hes blm to the high 60s (by killing pets). I really would rather no have the whole WoW debate.

[Nebu]

your dead wrong about the perfect party stuff. No, you do not need a perfect party, you do need a balanced party. and what i would define as balance is 3 back line and 3 front line. Now it doesnt matter what they are, as long as they are of that arch type.  As far as the lack of solo play, thats also not true. I have a friend who soloed hes blm to the high 60s (by killing pets). I really would rather no have the whole WoW debate.

1. Reading this made my eyes bleed. 

2.  You're trying to engage in a debate that chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla.  If you want to start a thread about the wonder that is FFXI (A game I couldn't stand), I'd focus on the mechanics/graphics/UI elements that you feel made it superior. 

[grunk]

1. Reading this made my eyes bleed. 

Emo Much?

[Abelian75]

I really feel like I missed my chance at the whole random, controversial question-as-first-post thing.

[Nebu]

Emo Much?

Do you have a point?  Look at the sentence structure and capitalization in that post and tell me that it doesn't make you cringe a little.  We're grown-ups here.

[grunk]

Do you have a point?  Look at the sentence structure and capitalization in that post and tell me that it doesn't make you cringe a little.  We're grown-ups here.

Emo Allot?

[Nebu]

Emo Allot?

Thank you.  You've made my point for me.

[grunk]

A lot*

you emo A LOT. how about, I take your avatar sig, and give him a box cutter?

[Nebu]

My point isn't EMO, but rather that any new poster to these forums will be taken more seriously if they attempt to write in a coherent manner. 

Or if you prefer: +1 OMGLOLZ

[Teleku]

FFXI was one of the more painfull games I have ever played.  Yes, it was pretty.  But everything else about it was fucked up in MMO terms, from the forced grouping (YOU CANNOT SOLO.  IF YOUR FRIEND FOUND A WAY, IT WAS BY DOING THE MOST HORRENDOUS GRINDIEST THINGS IMAGINABLE FOR HOURS UPON HOURS EVERY DAY), shit-tacular movement speeds, harsh death penalties (for how insanely easy it was to be pawned by a rabbit 5 levels lower than you), etc.  

I kind of liked its auction system.

Many of my friends and I all started playing it as our first group mmo (I have been playing MMOs since the beginning, but finally got a group of friends to play with me), and all of us lasted no more than two months, most of us only one.  WE JUST COULDNT DO IT.  Even when we all worked together, over ventrillo, to go grouping.  It just wasnt fun for any of us.  After that, with all those exact same people, we all started wow together, and stayed solidly subscribed from the time the game launched until right now (all of us finally unsubscribed this month due to burn out/work/gong to school half way across the world/lack of other people to play with for those reasons, etc.).

Its nice that you like it, and the game certainly had a certain amount of charm in its style, but holy fuck.  To me, at least, it fucked up about everything I can think of in terms of mmo gameplay.  Just too painful to casuals, even with a group of dedicated people to group with.  Advancement was so painfull slow :(

edit: christ, there was only 2 responses when i started typing this.  Grunk is kind of a dick, I wish I hadnt drunkenly responded now.

[Numtini]

If FFXI is your thing, I think the closest thing to it would be EQ2. However, they've spent a lot of time moving EQ2 away from the heavy group thing. I still spend all my time (and I mean all) in a group though. I think the graphics are good, they get better in the new zones where they went more for a fantasy look and less with the photorealism.

It's still more soloable and not quite as punishing as FFXI was. There's no meaningful death penalty and you can solo. While you can group with, say, all mages, but it's not as efficient as the classic tank/healer/utility/dps thing and the whole dynamics of a party with different roles working together is there.

In any case, the trial is free. It won't show you the "real" game though any more than soloing up to 10th will show you what FFXI is about.

If you like FFXI and you can find groups and such, I don't see any reason why you'd want to switch. The getting a group was the killer for me. The last time I reupped was one of those come back we'll restore your character, I took the time on the phone to get it restored, everything was there. I spent 3 nights sitting with my LFG tag, begging, spamming, and all that for the kazam key without a single offer. I find the fun of grouping to be worth spending 15 minutes or a half an hour looking for a group, particularly if I can craft or do easy quest steps or such. But not multiple entire evenings. And I was an WHM. Goddess help other classes.

[tazelbain]

Teh gram snak is emoz oic ty -- bff jill

[grunk]

FFXI was one of the more painfull games I have ever played.  Yes, it was pretty.  But everything else about it was fucked up in MMO terms, from the forced grouping (YOU CANNOT SOLO.  IF YOUR FRIEND FOUND A WAY, IT WAS BY DOING THE MOST HORRENDOUS GRINDIEST THINGS IMAGINABLE FOR HOURS UPON HOURS EVERY DAY), shit-tacular movement speeds, harsh death penalties (for how insanely easy it was to be pawned by a rabbit 5 levels lower than you), etc.  

I kind of liked its auction system.

Many of my friends and I all started playing it as our first group mmo (I have been playing MMOs since the beginning, but finally got a group of friends to play with me), and all of us lasted no more than two months, most of us only one.  WE JUST COULDNT DO IT.  Even when we all worked together, over ventrillo, to go grouping.  It just wasnt fun for any of us.  After that, with all those exact same people, we all started wow together, and stayed solidly subscribed from the time the game launched until right now (all of us finally unsubscribed this month due to burn out/work/gong to school half way across the world/lack of other people to play with for those reasons, etc.).

Its nice that you like it, and the game certainly had a certain amount of charm in its style, but holy fuck.  To me, at least, it fucked up about everything I can think of in terms of mmo gameplay.  Just too painful to casuals, even with a group of dedicated people to group with.  Advancement was so painfull slow :(

edit: christ, there was only 2 responses when i started typing this.  Grunk is kind of a dick, I wish I hadnt drunkenly responded now.

My friend, played about 4 hours a day as a blm and got to lvl60 full AF, in about 2 months. He would put hes flag up and go solo. really easy stuff. Now he mostly just plays in mana burn pt's (get a bunch of BLM's and blow $hit up). I point him out because, I wish i had it that good when i was of lower level.

[grunk]

If FFXI is your thing, I think the closest thing to it would be EQ2. However, they've spent a lot of time moving EQ2 away from the heavy group thing. I still spend all my time (and I mean all) in a group though. I think the graphics are good, they get better in the new zones where they went more for a fantasy look and less with the photorealism.

It's still more soloable and not quite as punishing as FFXI was. There's no meaningful death penalty and you can solo. While you can group with, say, all mages, but it's not as efficient as the classic tank/healer/utility/dps thing and the whole dynamics of a party with different roles working together is there.

In any case, the trial is free. It won't show you the "real" game though any more than soloing up to 10th will show you what FFXI is about.

If you like FFXI and you can find groups and such, I don't see any reason why you'd want to switch. The getting a group was the killer for me. The last time I reupped was one of those come back we'll restore your character, I took the time on the phone to get it restored, everything was there. I spent 3 nights sitting with my LFG tag, begging, spamming, and all that for the kazam key without a single offer. I find the fun of grouping to be worth spending 15 minutes or a half an hour looking for a group, particularly if I can craft or do easy quest steps or such. But not multiple entire evenings. And I was an WHM. Goddess help other classes.

I just feel the need to point out, a lot of misconceptions. In regards to harsh XP penalty. With Raise two on my lvl75 I loose 500 XP (in no way harsh at all). With raise 3, I think I loose like a 100 and change? I mean, I fail to see this as harsh?

The only thing i felt was hard... was CoP.

Now as far as LFG, I am DRK so I have always had trouble LFG. Here is the thing, at around lvl40 or so, i stopped LFG. I actually went and built my pt and every night, as long as i follow the 3 back line / 3 front line I was good. Sure some nights, you dont get the balance you want but there is a lot to do in FFXI.

[Numtini]

I didn't think the death penalties in Everquest were harsh either until I played something without them.

FFXI is extremely punitive compared to other games in terms of death penalties, group composition, and soloability. If you don't think so, then it's because you haven't played anything else.

[Morfiend]

Grunk is awesome.

Next he is going to tell us that FF is where "teh hardcore sons of emo btichs play".

[Murgos]

For those of you late to the thread:

OP "Will there ever be another game as great as FFXI?"

Reply "Well, WoW is pretty good."

OP "We're not talking about WoW."

Reply "FFXI sucks compared to almost every other game out there."

OP "FFXI does not suck, you just don't understand it's greatness."

Reply "Well, what's great about it?"

OP "One guy managed to solo most of the way to the cap.  Once."

And a slight detour off into grammar snake land in the middle there.  So far this is my favorite thread today.

[Nebu]

All we need now is a captioned cat picture or a Rick Astley video link.

AMIRITE?!?!?!

[grunk]

Grunk is awesome.

Next he is going to tell us that FF is where "teh hardcore sons of emo btichs play".

Nah, I am not trying to travel down that road. I would say, I am HC when i have time to be HC. I work 40+ hours a week... hey sometimes i got a lot of time to play and sometimes i dont. Now, did the bulk of my milestones happen in FFXI while i was out of work for 6 months? sure but the truth is, most of the people who play other mmos, play them a lot no matter what. IMO, this guy, who logs on for 2 hours a day. He doesnt exist.

[Abelian75]

Just to clarify here, are you saying that you think long-term subscribers who play less than 2 hours a day on average do not exist (or are virtually non-existent)?

[Slayerik]

sure but the truth is, most of the people who play other mmos, play them a lot no matter what. IMO, this guy, who logs on for 2 hours a day. He doesnt exist.

Seriously, this is probably the best line ever.

Praise be Grunk.

[Vanifae]

Preach the gospel that is FFXI.

It was fun when I played it, now that I am smarter and wiser, I will never play it again.

[Sky]

My MGI is lvl 60 when he GHW with KYH. Sometimes I go to HG to JAK but when HGY I can also LDI for JE.

I have a friend who soloed hes blm to the high 60s (by killing pets)

Why do you hate freedom? You only embolden the enemy.

IMO, this guy, who logs on for 2 hours a day. He doesnt exist.

2 hours? Heh. Try half-hour to an hour. Maybe two hours on a weekend if I'm not busy. YOIW. But not to a shitty game like FFXI.

I solo, don't use up much bandwidth nor content, and I stay subbed for about half the year, every year. I am the target audience. You are an anomaly.

[grunk]

Preach the gospel that is FFXI.

It was fun when I played it, now that I am smarter and wiser, I will never play it again.

I see it as. Someone has a negative experience and instead of trying to figure out, why that happens, they quit.

That most of the negative experiences that people have had in FFXI due to them not fully understand what they were actually doing.

Of course, if you don’t want to think, yeah you can go play WoW.

[Krakrok]

FFXI must have popped grunk's cherry.

[Morfiend]

So what you're you saying is that people who dont like the game are actually having fun, but they just dont realize how much fun they are actually having do to the crappy design of the game?

[bhodi]

You know, I played FFXI in a fixed group on a semi-casual basis with real life friends for almost a year. We played 1-2 hours, maybe 3 times a week. I guess I don't exist.

We hit the renkai(?) cockblock. We all decided to get up early on Saturday to camp this one mob for the little papyrus or whatever the fuck you needed for the leveling quest until we all had completed it. After 7 hours and only two drops, most, including me, said fuck it. The only people who would have camped a spot for a ultra rare drop so they could continue to play the game are people who enjoy getting kicked in the balls.

It didn't seem so bad at the time, except you know the fact you could actually DE-LEVEL, the gigantic cockblocks like the subjob quests, the eternal noobs in vulkrum dunes who aren't competent enough to group and thus stuck there, at the last place you can basically solo in the game, and the completely unforgiving combat. If you get an add, you are dead. If that mob cons at the high end of 'strong' or whatever you are dead. If a group wayyy over on the map dies, you die because of a mob train. Oh, and don't forget the minimum 20 minute travel to get to the fun. That was the best.

It's saving graces were the art style, the auction house, and the combat chain extra damage system. When compared to latest generation casual-friendly games like wow, this game is garbage. Yes, some of these issues have been fixed, no I will never go back. I forgot the playonline little shitty way to get into the game that took two minutes longer than it should have. That was terrible too. No, fuck you, I don't want to play tetra master.

Furthermore, you really scream 'mole' or possibly 'deluded idiot' and sound about 13. How the hell did you find this place, and why did you decide to open that metaphorical hole in your face before you scouted the lay of the land?

[Bunk]

My friend, played about 4 hours a day as a blm and got to lvl60 full AF, in about 2 months. He would put hes flag up and go solo. really easy stuff. Now he mostly just plays in mana burn pt's (get a bunch of BLM's and blow $hit up). I point him out because, I wish i had it that good when i was of lower level.

[snip]

I just feel the need to point out, a lot of misconceptions. In regards to harsh XP penalty. With Raise two on my lvl75 I loose 500 XP (in no way harsh at all). With raise 3, I think I loose like a 100 and change? I mean, I fail to see this as harsh?

The only thing i felt was hard... was CoP.

que?

[Vanifae]

FFXI must have popped grunk's cherry.

It popped my cherry, and like most first times it seemed great until I got with an experienced partner.

[Teleku]

Preach the gospel that is FFXI.

It was fun when I played it, now that I am smarter and wiser, I will never play it again.

I see it as. Someone has a negative experience and instead of trying to figure out, why that happens, they quit.

That most of the negative experiences that people have had in FFXI due to them not fully understand what they were actually doing.

Of course, if you don’t want to think, yeah you can go play WoW.

Haha!

You are funny!  And witty!  I like you!

Since you are cool and funny, I am going to share with you this awsome video I just took while I stumbled to the mcdonalds for a mega mac. 

Its the most fucking amazing sign I have ever seen!  Its like a holigram.  The quality is horrible on this stupid cell phone picture, but in real life, you can actually make out the details of the fake mans helmet and vest and stuff.  The flag even billows and waves as he swings it!  I cant believe we actually pay people to do this in America when Japan just puts uncaring awsome light hologram thingys.

I wanted to steal it, but then the light turned green behind me, and I almost got run over by several angry japanese drivers.  On the bright side, after initially refusing me service at the drive through (the inside part was closed), the mcdonalds guy finally let me buy food when i explained to him I was driving an invisible car, so it was ok.

[Abelian75]

Of course, if you don’t want to think, yeah you can go play WoW.

Oh!  Oh no!  There it is!

[grunk]

FFXI must have popped grunk's cherry.

Nah EQ was my first.