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Author Topic: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex  (Read 29378 times)
HaemishM
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Reply #35 on: November 05, 2007, 10:54:03 AM

Read the Messiah Complex book. I've no idea what to think, although the Golden Child story just doesn't really hold a lot of interest for me. Maybe I'm just sick of what they've done with the mutants as a whole lately. I think a 12-issue THIS CHANGES THE NEW STATUS QUO crossover book is going to get stretched to hell and back, especially with the new X-Furry book coming out.

Velorath
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Reply #36 on: November 08, 2007, 05:45:20 PM

Uncanny X-men #492 is the second part of MC, and while a good deal of the book is spent recapping what readers of the one-shot already know (a nessecary evil I suppose so readers who aren't picking up the entire crossover can follow along), there's also some nice tension between Cyclops and the Prof., and Rictor, Madrox, and Layla Miller are brought in from X-Factor.  Oh and it was also nice seeing Nightcrawler, Colossus, and Wolverine (along with Angel) fighting together.  Still not wild about bringing in Predator X, but I guess they needed something to justify crossing over with New X-men.

Astonishing X-men #23 also came out, and it works best when you re-read the previous issue before reading this one.  Great book though, and between this and Uncanny, it's been a pretty good week for Cyclops.  Not good enough that I've stopped hoping that he'll die (again) in MC, but steps are being made in the right direction.
HaemishM
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Reply #37 on: November 13, 2007, 02:31:05 PM

Astonishing X-men #23 also came out, and it works best when you re-read the previous issue before reading this one.  Great book though, and between this and Uncanny, it's been a pretty good week for Cyclops.  Not good enough that I've stopped hoping that he'll die (again) in MC, but steps are being made in the right direction.

See THAT'S how Cyclops is supposed to act. Except for that line where he sounds like a total drag queen when Emma picks the name "Leviathan" for their secret weapon. But seriously, Cyclops is a badass motherfucker, he just gets portrayed as a pussy by lazy writers who think Wolverine is the epitome of cool.

Velorath
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Reply #38 on: November 18, 2007, 03:15:08 AM

So... X-Factor #25 then.  This issue moves the MC plot briskly forward with Rictor infiltrating the Purfiers (although why they only suspect mutants who still have powers as possible spies is beyond me), Layla and Madrox going to visit Forge, the New X-men make an appearance, and Wolverine, Nightcrawler, and Storm track down former Acolyte Amelia Voght.  Overall, good artwork, good writing, and good pacing... as part of MC.  However, regular readers of X-Factor who have no interest in the larger crossover are pretty much going to be lost here, and people picking up the book as part of the crossover who don't read X-Factor aren't going to find any reasons in this issue to stick around after (arguably one of the points of doing these kinds of things is to get people to give other books in the line a try and hopefully some of them will stick around). 

In recent years, Marvel has had the semi-decent idea of giving most of their big event stories their own books, while other books can tie in with their own arcs, but still be readable without following the event.  House of M, Civil War, and World War Hulk have all done that.  Messiah Complex is a step back in that respect, like some of the recent Spider-man events like The Other and presumably One More Day now that I think about it.

Next week is New X-men's first entry into the crossover, with issue #44.  The ad at the back of X-Factor promises among other things that "the New X-men suffer a casualty", which if true, amongst all the various squads would put their mortality rate up at levels rivaling that of the X-Statics.
HaemishM
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Reply #39 on: November 21, 2007, 11:20:45 AM

Wow, you can tell Peter David just really isn't into the whole crossover thing. Very flat issue of X-Factor #25.

Velorath
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Reply #40 on: November 27, 2007, 04:31:22 AM

Wow, you can tell Peter David just really isn't into the whole crossover thing. Very flat issue of X-Factor #25.

I don't blame him.  In addition to the obvious pain for a writer to set the story he's trying to tell off to the side for a few months, these things also often have a way of rearranging the pieces on the board.  In this case, Wolfsbane is getting moved over to the new X-Force title, and I don't imagine that jibes to well with whatever plans Peter David had in mind with her.

On another note, New X-men #44 released last week with the next part of Messiah Complex.  Now until a few weeks ago, I had never read an issue of New X-men (formerly New X-men: Academy X, formerly New Mutants v2.).  From what I can tell with the original New Mutants and Generation X, these things tend to follow a pattern.  They start off as students just starting to learn how to control their powers, they end up bonding, taking on some legitimate threats, grow more confident, and eventually outgrow the original concept of "the next generation of mutants, unsure of themselves, not yet a real "team", and learning how to control their powers".  Once that happens the book is dead and the characters are relegated to being bits of trivia for fans of the X-men, shuffled off to the background or killed.  Very few ever make the transistion into full-fledged co-star of an X-book.

And yet, I figured since these characters were getting once last shot at the spotlight before New X-men's apparent cancelation (the latest solicits don't have a listing for New X-men) as the creative team moves over to X-Force, it gave me an excuse to read up on these characters, which I did in the form of reading every issue of all three iterations of their book.  Aside from the abrubt change of tone midway through Academy X when the new writing team took over (and the book went from being year 1 at Hogwarts to a bizarre mix of violence and angst where it isn't a good idea to get too attached to any of the characters), it's actually a very solid book with strong characterization in the first half, and a lot of action in the second.

Issue 44 keeps MC flowing, and adds Hisako (Armor over in Astonishing X-men) to the team, although due to the art you can't really tell it's her until later in the issue.  It also once more begs the question of when Astonishing takes place since it teases the death of a character, but unless it's Lockheed, every member of the Astonishing team has now appeared in other, presumably post-Astonishing, stories.  Enjoyable book, but Humberto Ramos is the wrong fit for the book, and it will also be a shame if New X-men's final arc is part of a crossover.
HaemishM
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Reply #41 on: November 27, 2007, 10:26:37 AM

I'm not sure Ramos' art fits with much of anything these days. I liked him ok with Young Justice and Impulse, but he's gotten more stylized and less enjoyable to look at as he's gone on. The original New Mutants v2/Academy X stories were really good, but I haven't followed the team since before the book changed writers. And with the shitty way so many writers have handled the X-Mansion since Grant Morrison set up the mansion's status quo, I can't tell who most of these characters are now. I recognized Sam Guthrie's brother and X-23 and the big rock guy, but that's it.

Llava
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Reply #42 on: November 28, 2007, 03:36:22 AM

I totally disagree on Ramos.

I think his style is perfect for just about any X-book, but it felt particularly suited to New X-Men.  I was very happy with it.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Velorath
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Reply #43 on: November 28, 2007, 04:17:54 AM

I totally disagree on Ramos.

I think his style is perfect for just about any X-book, but it felt particularly suited to New X-Men.  I was very happy with it.

Well to be fair, I think some of my problems with the art are actually the writers fault (Armor not being identified until several pages after she joins the team is a script problem as well as an artistic one, and the action sequence near the end didn't really get enough time to breathe).  And somebody needs to do something about those costumes.  There's a problem when half the members of the team are wearing gauntlets bigger than the ones Surge has to wear (with boots to match).
Velorath
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Reply #44 on: November 30, 2007, 05:16:52 PM

Really enjoyed the fight in X-men 205.  Carey did a great job of having a lot of the characters on both sides use their powers intelligently.  The X-men team go into this one knowing they're outmatched, and even the few that manage to get out are in pretty bad shape.  The writers are doing a really good fucking job of making the stakes feel high here.  Once again though, not a fan of the art.  I like some of Bachalo's work (he did Generation Next in AOA if I'm not mistaken), for for a story like this, especially one that started with Slivestri on art, and then had Tan and Eaton over the next two chapters, it's a jarring swtich to go to guys like Ramos and Bachalo.  Oh well, we'll be back to Tan with the next issue.

As for the reveal near the end of the book showing who has the kid... well, I've never been fond of the character but I think it does make a bit of sense.  The plot is moving forward as a decent pace, and so far I like where this is heading.  I guess it helps make for a good crossover when you have guys like Peter David, Brubaker, and Carey doing the writing (and Kyle and Yost aren't bad when they aren't randomly killing off characters the previous creative team spent 30+ issues getting you to care about).
« Last Edit: December 02, 2007, 03:28:13 AM by Velorath »
Llava
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Reply #45 on: December 01, 2007, 10:06:46 PM

This crossover is giving me the old "Yes, this is how the X-Men should be." feel.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
HaemishM
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Reply #46 on: December 05, 2007, 11:45:56 AM

X-Men #205 was MUCH better than the X-Factor or New X-Men issues that preceeded it. Good old-style mutant fight (even though I hate Sinister), and a nice twist. Still not sure I like the overall story, but Mike Carey did good with this issue.

Llava
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Reply #47 on: December 06, 2007, 10:55:39 AM

"At least it's like the old days again.  Everyone against us and giant robots to fight."

Indeed.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Velorath
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Reply #48 on: December 07, 2007, 03:55:41 AM

Yeah, they're really keeping the action going here.  Only had two issues with Uncanny 493.  The first is that they don't really show how Storm, Colossus, and Angel managed to get away.  I had to go back and read X-men 205 to see if I missed something.  The other part would be the formation of X-Force at the end.  Not that the one page they appeared in at the end did anything to diminish the rest of the issue, but it just felt like a big, red "and here comes the stuff our editors are forcing us to put in here" flag. 

Nice to see Dust and Nezhno get something to do, although I can only recall Nezhno's powers being described in one issue of New X-men, so I imagine a good percentage of the readers won't understand exactly why Cyclops doesn't want him to get involved in this fight, especially when he's willing to send Dust in (Nezhno gets stronger and stronger each time he activates his powers, but it will eventually kill him).
Cim
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Reply #49 on: December 11, 2007, 08:48:17 PM

Wait, what is going on? Why is Marvel ruining everything?

Theres a place on your face that can save the human race, its called a smile, the positivity that it creates takes awhile, but the grin will turn an inch into a mile.
Velorath
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Reply #50 on: December 12, 2007, 03:09:39 AM

Wait, what is going on? Why is Marvel ruining everything?

They already ruined everything.  Messiah Complex is actually an exercise in unruining everything House of M ruined.
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Reply #51 on: December 12, 2007, 06:00:16 PM

Oh, then they can continue the unruining and what not.

Theres a place on your face that can save the human race, its called a smile, the positivity that it creates takes awhile, but the grin will turn an inch into a mile.
Ubvman
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Reply #52 on: December 13, 2007, 03:55:16 AM

Aw crap...



This artist can't draw black people. Storm looks like Paris Hilton in blackface, ditto Bishop (well not the Paris Hilton bit).
HaemishM
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Reply #53 on: December 13, 2007, 03:18:45 PM

'ASSEMBLE THE X-FORCE!"

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

The rest of the issue was decent, but this new team is what... a hunter-killer team meant to take down Cable? Or just any rogue mutants?

Velorath
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Reply #54 on: December 13, 2007, 03:21:52 PM

'ASSEMBLE THE X-FORCE!"

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

The rest of the issue was decent, but this new team is what... a hunter-killer team meant to take down Cable? Or just any rogue mutants?

Right now the team's mission is to kill Cable, but since it's going to be a monthly series I imagine its overall purpose as simply being the X-men team that kills people.
HaemishM
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Reply #55 on: December 13, 2007, 03:38:34 PM

DOUBLE GAY.  swamp poop

Cim
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Reply #56 on: December 13, 2007, 04:26:43 PM

They're trying to kill CABLE?!

Theres a place on your face that can save the human race, its called a smile, the positivity that it creates takes awhile, but the grin will turn an inch into a mile.
Velorath
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Reply #57 on: December 13, 2007, 04:47:16 PM

They're trying to kill CABLE?!

File under "Things they should have done 10 years ago".
Cim
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Reply #58 on: December 13, 2007, 05:38:17 PM

True enough I suppose.

Theres a place on your face that can save the human race, its called a smile, the positivity that it creates takes awhile, but the grin will turn an inch into a mile.
Nevermore
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Reply #59 on: December 14, 2007, 07:41:29 AM

What did Cable do that's so horrible that an X Hit Team had to be created?  Even Magneto never got that kind of treatment.

Over and out.
HaemishM
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Reply #60 on: December 14, 2007, 10:36:36 AM

He stole a newborn baby. That baby happens to be the first mutant born since the whole "No More Mutants - House of M" stupidity, and it apparently manifested its powers at birth unlike other mutants that manifest at puberty.

NowhereMan
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Reply #61 on: December 14, 2007, 11:40:16 AM

Magneto had to repeatedly try to wipe out humanity before people had the whole moral discussion about just killing him for the greater good but Cable kidnaps a baby and suddenly the gloves are off? Have the X-men actually changed that much or are the writers just writing stuff in to give pointless moral quandaries/badly redo continuity?

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Llava
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Reply #62 on: December 14, 2007, 12:25:49 PM

They have changed quite a bit, not the least of those changes being that Cyclops is calling the shots now rather than Professor X.  He's always been a bit more authoritative than Chuck, but his relationship with Cable may have left him feeling extra qualified to say it's time for him to go.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
HaemishM
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Reply #63 on: December 14, 2007, 03:15:28 PM

or are the writers just writing stuff in to give pointless moral quandaries/badly redo continuity?

Got it in 1.

Velorath
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Reply #64 on: December 14, 2007, 03:17:34 PM

Magneto had to repeatedly try to wipe out humanity before people had the whole moral discussion about just killing him for the greater good but Cable kidnaps a baby and suddenly the gloves are off? Have the X-men actually changed that much or are the writers just writing stuff in to give pointless moral quandaries/badly redo continuity?

The new mutant child could be the key to saving the mutant race, which is currently bordering on extinction.  Cable has unknown plans for the child, but they obviously conflict with what the X-men have planned, since he faked his own death, and more recently might have been the cause of the sentinels parked outside the X-men's mansion attacking (and they were quite willing to use lethal force).
Llava
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Reply #65 on: December 14, 2007, 03:45:40 PM

And after I posted, I read this week's X-Factor where the first thing that happens is Prof. X yelling at Scott for authorizing deadly force on Cable, and Scott saying stfu I'm in charge now and we are done fucking around.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Velorath
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Reply #66 on: December 14, 2007, 04:00:23 PM

I liked the part where everyone sneaks past the guard, only to have Warpath just knock the guard out.
Velorath
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Reply #67 on: December 20, 2007, 05:36:23 PM

Only thing I currently have to say about New X-men #45 is that having a character shot doesn't work as a dramatic moment when that character is fucking Caliban.
Cim
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Reply #68 on: December 20, 2007, 05:42:57 PM

Wait, I just thought about something;  Isn't Cable Cyclops' kid from the future?

Theres a place on your face that can save the human race, its called a smile, the positivity that it creates takes awhile, but the grin will turn an inch into a mile.
Velorath
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Reply #69 on: December 20, 2007, 06:09:04 PM

Wait, I just thought about something;  Isn't Cable Cyclops' kid from the future?

Yes.  Cyclops has sent a team out to kill his own son.
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