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Title: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on July 03, 2007, 08:46:05 PM
Well, maybe more of a catch-all topic for recent goings-on in the X-books as there's been some fairly interesting stuff going on lately (and I say this as someone who has never really been a diehard X-men fan or anything).  X-Men #200 in particular was... well, I guess I'd just call it a fun book.  I know they've been hyping it up a bit lately, but at its heart it feels like an old-school superhero stuff, the likes of which we don't get enough of these days.  Carey and Brubaker both seem to be going back to some old X-men concepts (Marauders, Morlocks, Starjammers) rather than try to take the X-men in some "bold, new direction" that will only last as long as it takes for the next creative team to come on board.

I actually think it was a smart idea to tell the Endangered Species story in back-up strips, as it allows the writers to keep doing what they're doing without interruption.  The one-shot was little more than a pointless reminder of the ramifications of House of M (which have largely been ignored as of late in the core titles with 2 out of the 3 X-Men teams having been out in space for a year or so).  The backup strip in #200 though sets up an intersting plot though, with Beast seeking help from people like Mr. Sinister, M.O.D.O.K., Dr. Doom, Zola, and others for help reversing the "No More Mutants" thing, since the combined intellect of Stark, Richards, and Pym haven't been able to come up with any sort of solutions.

As the build-up to the big X-men crossover, I can't really give a shit, but as far as the current stories are going right now, I'm actually enjoying a lot more X-men stuff than usual these days.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: HaemishM on July 04, 2007, 02:47:41 PM
While I've been liking the individual X-Men books lately, they've suffered from a bit of scatterbrain. The core X-Men are gone or in Astonishing, which seems to take place in some pocket universe or something as disconnected as it is from the other books. The teams haven't really felt like teams ever since Carey and Brubaker have taken over, because you just know that all the characters aren't going to stay around. It's felt more like the writers are telling stories with almost interchangeable characters, which isn't what the X-Men should be about. What's really needed is consolidation in my opinion, oh and excise Wolverine from the line altogether since he's part of the New New Avengers and every other fucking book out there. What I really dislike is how the X-Men have seemed to segregate themselves consciously from the rest of the MU and how the characters in the other MU books seem to be fine with putting them in that segregation.

I've never been a fan of the Marauders, personally. I couldn't even identify most of them by sight anymore.

As for Endangered Species, the prologue was so fucking emo it hurt. Why are the X-Men and most of the MU turning into such mopey bitches? The idea of the Beast appealing to the villains I just don't buy, especially Sinister or Doom. I'll wait to reserve judgement, but so far I'm not optimistic.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on July 04, 2007, 03:01:52 PM
The idea of the Beast appealing to the villains I just don't buy, especially Sinister or Doom. I'll wait to reserve judgement, but so far I'm not optimistic.

The X-men have given villains like Magneto, Sabretooth, Mystique, and Emma Frost multiple chances at redemption.  I can buy them going to villains for scientific advice.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: HaemishM on July 05, 2007, 10:06:12 AM
Redemption is one thing. Every time they've worked with a villain, it's been mostly to give the villain a chance to turn it around. Sabretooth, for all the killing he's done, is small-time when in the same room as Sinister or Doom, or hell, even Modok.

The Beast is a Skrull.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on July 05, 2007, 11:33:09 AM
Redemption is one thing. Every time they've worked with a villain, it's been mostly to give the villain a chance to turn it around.

Which to me is even more naive (especially when Sabretooth hasn't really been looking for redemption most of the time).  I think trading scientific knowledge is on a much lower scale of stupidity than expecting someone to completely change who they are.  Besides that, Sinister's motivations at least make it in his best interests to help out the Beast.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on August 24, 2007, 11:48:55 AM
So, the end of Astonishing X-men 22...

Too bad that unless this somehow takes place after Messiah Complex it's going to get undone.  Still, I kinda called it.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: HaemishM on August 24, 2007, 12:01:24 PM
Bah, fuck me. The rest of X-Men continuity is REALLY fucking Astonishing up. I've no idea where the Astonishing stories are set in relation to the other stories in the MU, so no telling I'm to be emotionally effected by the ending or not.

Marvel so needs a new EIC.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on September 07, 2007, 07:59:32 PM
Aw crap...

(http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/xmen/disassembled/X-MenDisassembled_t.jpg)


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: HaemishM on September 07, 2007, 08:04:40 PM
Le fuck.


50-50 odds Bishop is a Skrull. Or fucking Cyclops, since they love dicking him over.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: schild on September 07, 2007, 09:21:12 PM
That's because no one fucking likes Cyclops. He's a dick.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Samwise on September 07, 2007, 09:28:52 PM
 :popcorn:


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on September 07, 2007, 11:25:22 PM
Le fuck.


50-50 odds Bishop is a Skrull. Or fucking Cyclops, since they love dicking him over.

Wolverine needs to be a Skrull.  It's the only way he can be in as many books as he's in each month.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Tebonas on September 08, 2007, 01:14:28 PM
Its Team Wolverine. They have a supercomputer to get the timing right so that there is never more than one Wolverine seen in the same time at the same place. Once in a while a body part gets cut off and develops into a whole new being thanks to Wolverines Superregeneration.

Yeah, like thats the most unlikely thing that could happen in the Marvel Universe.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on September 08, 2007, 01:46:12 PM
Its Team Wolverine. They have a supercomputer to get the timing right so that there is never more than one Wolverine seen in the same time at the same place. Once in a while a body part gets cut off and develops into a whole new being thanks to Wolverines Superregeneration.

Yeah, like thats the most unlikely thing that could happen in the Marvel Universe.

The most unlikely thing that's happened in the Marvel Universe is Cyclops getting women like Jean Grey and Emma Frost.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on September 13, 2007, 04:08:23 AM
(http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/xmen/disassembled/xf_concept_front_t.jpg)

So new Cable and X-Force books on the way (http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/xmen/disassembled/X-Who.html).  No writers announced as of yet, but unfortunately the Cable book (which launches in March) will be replacing Cable and Deadpool.  The characters in the above picture for those who can't tell who anyone other than Wolverine is, are X-23. Warpath, and Wolfsbane, with Hephzibah and Caliban also possilby on the team.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: HaemishM on September 13, 2007, 10:43:16 AM
Dear fucking God, they just can't stop can they? Wolverine's going to wear a black costume now? And be on ANOTHER GODDAMN TEAM?

Fuck.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Merusk on September 13, 2007, 11:14:16 AM
He sure gets involved with a lot of groups for being an antisocial loner.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on September 14, 2007, 03:05:04 AM
Dear fucking God, they just can't stop can they? Wolverine's going to wear a black costume now? And be on ANOTHER GODDAMN TEAM?

Fuck.

Not just Wolverine, but Wolverine and his female clone.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Nevermore on September 14, 2007, 08:06:05 AM
I know it's been a really long time since I picked up a comic, but when did Wolfsbane turn into a she-Anubis?


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: HaemishM on September 14, 2007, 10:10:38 AM
A long time ago in X-Factor. She vacillates between that form and human form and wolf form.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Llava on September 17, 2007, 10:58:09 AM
That's a lot of claws for one team.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: HaemishM on September 17, 2007, 11:18:26 AM
They should just fucking call it X-Yiffing with Warpath and be done with it. Fucking tools.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on October 04, 2007, 02:18:18 AM
The Morlock story in Uncanny wraps up in a rather anticlimatic fashion in this week's issue, and has some minor setup for Messiah Complex, which starts at the end of the month.  Magneto it seems might still have his powers.  The Endangered Species back-up meanwhile firmly establishes that the whole "No More Mutants" thing is magical in nature and is a spell that is affecting reality in seemingly every dimension and timeline.

Not really looking forward to another Magneto story personally.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: HaemishM on October 30, 2007, 08:09:29 PM
Finally finished the Endangered Species story in the backups.

What a lot of wankery, full of sound and fury, signifying fuckall. I mean, it's great that they explained it as being magical in nature, but was that the only point of the story? An attempt to explain the mechanics of a rather large, idiotic deus ex machina? How many pages have been pissed away since the original Avengers Dissassembled story to:

1) Remove the Scarlet Witch
2) Turn Quicksilver into I have no fucking idea what
3) Cut down on the number of mutants

Because that's all that's been achieved. And how long before someone decides to undo it?

Since they started with the Brubaker and Carey runs on the X-Men books, I thought they might be building to something decent. Now, I'm not so sure. There's been way too many big changes with the teams and characters in way too short a time period. Now it seems like they are either going to turn Cyclops into Logan Part Duh or kill him off.

And I can't blame the writers because it really does feel like the whole thing is more of Marvel's typical story by editorial fiat.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: stu on October 30, 2007, 08:28:47 PM
If Marvel had any balls, they would cut their monthly output to twenty-four titles for a full year- just put out nothing but top-notch stories. They hype up all this Disassembled nonsense and killing off superfluous mutant characters like it means something, but Marvel is more stagnant than ever. There was a time that I thought Quesada would be the perfect EIC for The House of Ideas, but I guess I was wrong.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on October 30, 2007, 08:49:16 PM
Since they started with the Brubaker and Carey runs on the X-Men books, I thought they might be building to something decent. Now, I'm not so sure. There's been way too many big changes with the teams and characters in way too short a time period. Now it seems like they are either going to turn Cyclops into Logan Part Duh or kill him off.

And I can't blame the writers because it really does feel like the whole thing is more of Marvel's typical story by editorial fiat.

I think at first, Brubaker and Carey either really didn't want to deal with any of that Decimation bullshit, or Marvel just had no idea of where they wanted to go with all of it yet, hence why Uncanny was set out in space for a full year and Carey built a team only to tear it completely down in recent issues.  Their most recent arcs give me at least some hope that Messiah Complex will be entertaining (especially with X-Factor seeming to be prominently involved, beyond just token appearences), although I think it will suffer for the editorial decision to use the crossover as a springboard to launch the new X-Force book.

Endangered Species was Marvel's attempt at craming in all the shit they should have made clear since the first issues following House of M.  It wasn't a story, so much as setting the ground rules for the whole No More Mutants thing and what it did and didn't affect, well over a year after they should have, all the while giving us the same "why can't I cure this?" angst from the Beast that we all got sick of back in the days of the Legacy Virus.  It also had some decent nods to past continuity (bringing back the Dark Beast, mentioning Nate Grey, following up on some of Tieri's stuff from his Weapon X book). 


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on October 30, 2007, 09:06:05 PM
If Marvel had any balls, they would cut their monthly output to twenty-four titles for a full year- just put out nothing but top-notch stories. They hype up all this Disassembled nonsense and killing off superfluous mutant characters like it means something, but Marvel is more stagnant than ever. There was a time that I thought Quesada would be the perfect EIC for The House of Ideas, but I guess I was wrong.

God please no.  As much as I hate Bendis' Avengers stuff, crap like that, and House of M sell a lot of copies.  The silver lining is that shit like that makes funding lower selling books like Runaways possible for Marvel.  It's sad, but if Marvel cut down their monthly output to their 24 best written titles, they'd be out of business before that full year was up.  I may not like how Quesada and Bendis have shit all over the Avengers, and brought down the X-Men universe (Quesada did bring us the Morrison X-men stuff though, which was the first time the X-Men had been any good in well over a decade), Reed Richards, and Iron Man while they were at it, but at the same time Quesada has given us stuff from Brian K. Vaughn, Whedon, Brubaker, Ellis, Greg Pak, Ennis, Morrison, Dan Slott, one of the best ongoings Peter David has ever done, a series of Dark Tower minis, the Ultimates, and quite a bit of other good stuff.  Yeah, there's a flood of shit that rivals some of the worst stuff from the 90's, but at the same time they also have large output of some top quality stuff too.  I could name several dozen must-have TPB's from Marvel since Quesada took over.  I can almost live with not being able to enjoy an Avengers or Iron Man book for that.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: stu on October 30, 2007, 09:32:09 PM
The first couple years of Quesada's run was awesome. I bought every issue of the Morrison X-Men run. X-Statix was great for a while and the Whedon X-Men was fun too. Other than that, I haven't bothered to buy a Marvel title in more than two years, with the exception of New Avengers #1.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on October 30, 2007, 09:48:48 PM
The first couple years of Quesada's run was awesome. I bought every issue of the Morrison X-Men run. X-Statix was great for a while and the Whedon X-Men was fun too. Other than that, I haven't bothered to buy a Marvel title in more than two years, with the exception of New Avengers #1.

As far as Marvel stuff goes, I read Captain America, Runaways, Thunderbolts, and X-Factor every month (and New Avengers, but only because it usually gives me something to bitch about).  I keep an eye on Brubaker and Carey's X-Men, and Pak's Hulk among other stuff but I don't consistently read them every month.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: stu on October 30, 2007, 09:57:00 PM
Marvel is a great company, but I don't think I should have to stare at 50 junk titles for every issue of Runaways. Maybe it just comes down to their editors being incompetent, like with that Wolvie story you mentioned- the one where he has to fight Death.

Also, I think I read a long time ago that part of their strategy is to flood shelves with titles so that DC doesn't gain the perception of market dominance.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on October 30, 2007, 10:18:53 PM
Marvel is a great company, but I don't think I should have to stare at 50 junk titles for every issue of Runaways. Maybe it just comes down to their editors being incompetent, like with that Wolvie story you mentioned- the one where he has to fight Death.

Also, I think I read a long time ago that part of their strategy is to flood shelves with titles so that DC doesn't gain the perception of market dominance.

You don't have to stare at 50 junk titles.  You can either pretend they don't exist, or get some measure of enjoyment out of mocking them.  I'm not so sure if it's their strategy to flood shelves with their titles now, but it was one of their strategies back in the 90's, and at one point had close to, if not more than 100 titles coming out every month.  I think it was less to compete with DC (who at least sell stongly enough to get their books on the shelves regardless) as it was an attempt to force smaller publishers like Image, Dark Horse, Valiant, and the Indies off the shelves.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Llava on October 31, 2007, 01:20:25 AM
Velo- Don't know if you have, but you should check out Immortal Iron Fist. First couple issues were okay, not great, but as it's gone on it's getting better and better. Along with Thunderbolts and a couple other books, it's one of the ones I really look forward to.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on October 31, 2007, 01:24:07 AM
Velo- Don't know if you have, but you should check out Immortal Iron Fist. First couple issues were okay, not great, but as it's gone on it's getting better and better. Along with Thunderbolts and a couple other books, it's one of the ones I really look forward to.

I read the first two issues of Iron Fist.  It was a little slow paced so I figured on checking out again later if it didn't get canceled, but as of yet I haven't gone back to it.  I really liked the art style though.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: HaemishM on October 31, 2007, 02:30:48 PM
The Iron Fist stuff is worth checking out. It got better after the first few issues. Thunderbolts I'm pretty torn on. I like Ellis, but it's tied so closely with the abortion that has resulted from Civil War, it's hard to read.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on November 01, 2007, 04:05:25 AM
The Iron Fist stuff is worth checking out. It got better after the first few issues. Thunderbolts I'm pretty torn on. I like Ellis, but it's tied so closely with the abortion that has resulted from Civil War, it's hard to read.

It's an odd book, in that Songbird and Chen Lu are really the only characters worth rooting for (although I think Norman Osborne is well written).  The highlight of the book so far has probably been American Eagle beating the shit out of Bullseye.  It also helps that Deodato does some great art, especially with the fight scenes (although his work in the most recent issue looked a little rushed).

Back on topic, the Messiah Complex One-Shot which gives us the basic set-up here.  With 12 more parts to go in the story (it runs through 3 months of X-men, Uncanny, New X-men, and X-Factor) I fully expect the story to get stretched past the breaking point if the entire crossover follows the plot thread set up in this book.  Brubaker get's the characterization of the X-Men down as solidly as usual though, and Marc Silverstri provides the art for this one-shot.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: HaemishM on November 05, 2007, 10:54:03 AM
Read the Messiah Complex book. I've no idea what to think, although the Golden Child story just doesn't really hold a lot of interest for me. Maybe I'm just sick of what they've done with the mutants as a whole lately. I think a 12-issue THIS CHANGES THE NEW STATUS QUO crossover book is going to get stretched to hell and back, especially with the new X-Furry book coming out.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Velorath on November 08, 2007, 05:45:20 PM
Uncanny X-men #492 is the second part of MC, and while a good deal of the book is spent recapping what readers of the one-shot already know (a nessecary evil I suppose so readers who aren't picking up the entire crossover can follow along), there's also some nice tension between Cyclops and the Prof., and Rictor, Madrox, and Layla Miller are brought in from X-Factor.  Oh and it was also nice seeing Nightcrawler, Colossus, and Wolverine (along with Angel) fighting together.  Still not wild about bringing in Predator X, but I guess they needed something to justify crossing over with New X-men.

Astonishing X-men #23 also came out, and it works best when you re-read the previous issue before reading this one.  Great book though, and between this and Uncanny, it's been a pretty good week for Cyclops.  Not good enough that I've stopped hoping that he'll die (again) in MC, but steps are being made in the right direction.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: HaemishM on November 13, 2007, 02:31:05 PM
Astonishing X-men #23 also came out, and it works best when you re-read the previous issue before reading this one.  Great book though, and between this and Uncanny, it's been a pretty good week for Cyclops.  Not good enough that I've stopped hoping that he'll die (again) in MC, but steps are being made in the right direction.

See THAT'S how Cyclops is supposed to act. Except for that line where he sounds like a total drag queen when Emma picks the name "Leviathan" for their secret weapon. But seriously, Cyclops is a badass motherfucker, he just gets portrayed as a pussy by lazy writers who think Wolverine is the epitome of cool.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on November 18, 2007, 03:15:08 AM
So... X-Factor #25 then.  This issue moves the MC plot briskly forward with Rictor infiltrating the Purfiers (although why they only suspect mutants who still have powers as possible spies is beyond me), Layla and Madrox going to visit Forge, the New X-men make an appearance, and Wolverine, Nightcrawler, and Storm track down former Acolyte Amelia Voght.  Overall, good artwork, good writing, and good pacing... as part of MC.  However, regular readers of X-Factor who have no interest in the larger crossover are pretty much going to be lost here, and people picking up the book as part of the crossover who don't read X-Factor aren't going to find any reasons in this issue to stick around after (arguably one of the points of doing these kinds of things is to get people to give other books in the line a try and hopefully some of them will stick around). 

In recent years, Marvel has had the semi-decent idea of giving most of their big event stories their own books, while other books can tie in with their own arcs, but still be readable without following the event.  House of M, Civil War, and World War Hulk have all done that.  Messiah Complex is a step back in that respect, like some of the recent Spider-man events like The Other and presumably One More Day now that I think about it.

Next week is New X-men's first entry into the crossover, with issue #44.  The ad at the back of X-Factor promises among other things that "the New X-men suffer a casualty", which if true, amongst all the various squads would put their mortality rate up at levels rivaling that of the X-Statics.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on November 21, 2007, 11:20:45 AM
Wow, you can tell Peter David just really isn't into the whole crossover thing. Very flat issue of X-Factor #25.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on November 27, 2007, 04:31:22 AM
Wow, you can tell Peter David just really isn't into the whole crossover thing. Very flat issue of X-Factor #25.

I don't blame him.  In addition to the obvious pain for a writer to set the story he's trying to tell off to the side for a few months, these things also often have a way of rearranging the pieces on the board.  In this case, Wolfsbane is getting moved over to the new X-Force title, and I don't imagine that jibes to well with whatever plans Peter David had in mind with her.

On another note, New X-men #44 released last week with the next part of Messiah Complex.  Now until a few weeks ago, I had never read an issue of New X-men (formerly New X-men: Academy X, formerly New Mutants v2.).  From what I can tell with the original New Mutants and Generation X, these things tend to follow a pattern.  They start off as students just starting to learn how to control their powers, they end up bonding, taking on some legitimate threats, grow more confident, and eventually outgrow the original concept of "the next generation of mutants, unsure of themselves, not yet a real "team", and learning how to control their powers".  Once that happens the book is dead and the characters are relegated to being bits of trivia for fans of the X-men, shuffled off to the background or killed.  Very few ever make the transistion into full-fledged co-star of an X-book.

And yet, I figured since these characters were getting once last shot at the spotlight before New X-men's apparent cancelation (the latest solicits don't have a listing for New X-men) as the creative team moves over to X-Force, it gave me an excuse to read up on these characters, which I did in the form of reading every issue of all three iterations of their book.  Aside from the abrubt change of tone midway through Academy X when the new writing team took over (and the book went from being year 1 at Hogwarts to a bizarre mix of violence and angst where it isn't a good idea to get too attached to any of the characters), it's actually a very solid book with strong characterization in the first half, and a lot of action in the second.

Issue 44 keeps MC flowing, and adds Hisako (Armor over in Astonishing X-men) to the team, although due to the art you can't really tell it's her until later in the issue.  It also once more begs the question of when Astonishing takes place since it teases the death of a character, but unless it's Lockheed, every member of the Astonishing team has now appeared in other, presumably post-Astonishing, stories.  Enjoyable book, but Humberto Ramos is the wrong fit for the book, and it will also be a shame if New X-men's final arc is part of a crossover.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on November 27, 2007, 10:26:37 AM
I'm not sure Ramos' art fits with much of anything these days. I liked him ok with Young Justice and Impulse, but he's gotten more stylized and less enjoyable to look at as he's gone on. The original New Mutants v2/Academy X stories were really good, but I haven't followed the team since before the book changed writers. And with the shitty way so many writers have handled the X-Mansion since Grant Morrison set up the mansion's status quo, I can't tell who most of these characters are now. I recognized Sam Guthrie's brother and X-23 and the big rock guy, but that's it.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Llava on November 28, 2007, 03:36:22 AM
I totally disagree on Ramos.

I think his style is perfect for just about any X-book, but it felt particularly suited to New X-Men.  I was very happy with it.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on November 28, 2007, 04:17:54 AM
I totally disagree on Ramos.

I think his style is perfect for just about any X-book, but it felt particularly suited to New X-Men.  I was very happy with it.

Well to be fair, I think some of my problems with the art are actually the writers fault (Armor not being identified until several pages after she joins the team is a script problem as well as an artistic one, and the action sequence near the end didn't really get enough time to breathe).  And somebody needs to do something about those costumes.  There's a problem when half the members of the team are wearing gauntlets bigger than the ones Surge has to wear (with boots to match).


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on November 30, 2007, 05:16:52 PM
Really enjoyed the fight in X-men 205.  Carey did a great job of having a lot of the characters on both sides use their powers intelligently.  The X-men team go into this one knowing they're outmatched, and even the few that manage to get out are in pretty bad shape.  The writers are doing a really good fucking job of making the stakes feel high here.  Once again though, not a fan of the art.  I like some of Bachalo's work (he did Generation Next in AOA if I'm not mistaken), for for a story like this, especially one that started with Slivestri on art, and then had Tan and Eaton over the next two chapters, it's a jarring swtich to go to guys like Ramos and Bachalo.  Oh well, we'll be back to Tan with the next issue.

As for the reveal near the end of the book showing who has the kid... well, I've never been fond of the character but I think it does make a bit of sense.  The plot is moving forward as a decent pace, and so far I like where this is heading.  I guess it helps make for a good crossover when you have guys like Peter David, Brubaker, and Carey doing the writing (and Kyle and Yost aren't bad when they aren't randomly killing off characters the previous creative team spent 30+ issues getting you to care about).


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Llava on December 01, 2007, 10:06:46 PM
This crossover is giving me the old "Yes, this is how the X-Men should be." feel.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on December 05, 2007, 11:45:56 AM
X-Men #205 was MUCH better than the X-Factor or New X-Men issues that preceeded it. Good old-style mutant fight (even though I hate Sinister), and a nice twist. Still not sure I like the overall story, but Mike Carey did good with this issue.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Llava on December 06, 2007, 10:55:39 AM
"At least it's like the old days again.  Everyone against us and giant robots to fight."

Indeed.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on December 07, 2007, 03:55:41 AM
Yeah, they're really keeping the action going here.  Only had two issues with Uncanny 493.  The first is that they don't really show how Storm, Colossus, and Angel managed to get away.  I had to go back and read X-men 205 to see if I missed something.  The other part would be the formation of X-Force at the end.  Not that the one page they appeared in at the end did anything to diminish the rest of the issue, but it just felt like a big, red "and here comes the stuff our editors are forcing us to put in here" flag. 

Nice to see Dust and Nezhno get something to do, although I can only recall Nezhno's powers being described in one issue of New X-men, so I imagine a good percentage of the readers won't understand exactly why Cyclops doesn't want him to get involved in this fight, especially when he's willing to send Dust in (Nezhno gets stronger and stronger each time he activates his powers, but it will eventually kill him).


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Cim on December 11, 2007, 08:48:17 PM
Wait, what is going on? Why is Marvel ruining everything?


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on December 12, 2007, 03:09:39 AM
Wait, what is going on? Why is Marvel ruining everything?

They already ruined everything.  Messiah Complex is actually an exercise in unruining everything House of M ruined.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Cim on December 12, 2007, 06:00:16 PM
Oh, then they can continue the unruining and what not.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species
Post by: Ubvman on December 13, 2007, 03:55:16 AM
Aw crap...

(http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/xmen/disassembled/X-MenDisassembled_t.jpg)

This artist can't draw black people. Storm looks like Paris Hilton in blackface, ditto Bishop (well not the Paris Hilton bit).


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on December 13, 2007, 03:18:45 PM
'ASSEMBLE THE X-FORCE!"

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

The rest of the issue was decent, but this new team is what... a hunter-killer team meant to take down Cable? Or just any rogue mutants?


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on December 13, 2007, 03:21:52 PM
'ASSEMBLE THE X-FORCE!"

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

The rest of the issue was decent, but this new team is what... a hunter-killer team meant to take down Cable? Or just any rogue mutants?

Right now the team's mission is to kill Cable, but since it's going to be a monthly series I imagine its overall purpose as simply being the X-men team that kills people.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on December 13, 2007, 03:38:34 PM
DOUBLE GAY.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Cim on December 13, 2007, 04:26:43 PM
They're trying to kill CABLE?!


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on December 13, 2007, 04:47:16 PM
They're trying to kill CABLE?!

File under "Things they should have done 10 years ago".


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Cim on December 13, 2007, 05:38:17 PM
True enough I suppose.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Nevermore on December 14, 2007, 07:41:29 AM
What did Cable do that's so horrible that an X Hit Team had to be created?  Even Magneto never got that kind of treatment.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on December 14, 2007, 10:36:36 AM
He stole a newborn baby. That baby happens to be the first mutant born since the whole "No More Mutants - House of M" stupidity, and it apparently manifested its powers at birth unlike other mutants that manifest at puberty.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: NowhereMan on December 14, 2007, 11:40:16 AM
Magneto had to repeatedly try to wipe out humanity before people had the whole moral discussion about just killing him for the greater good but Cable kidnaps a baby and suddenly the gloves are off? Have the X-men actually changed that much or are the writers just writing stuff in to give pointless moral quandaries/badly redo continuity?


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Llava on December 14, 2007, 12:25:49 PM
They have changed quite a bit, not the least of those changes being that Cyclops is calling the shots now rather than Professor X.  He's always been a bit more authoritative than Chuck, but his relationship with Cable may have left him feeling extra qualified to say it's time for him to go.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on December 14, 2007, 03:15:28 PM
or are the writers just writing stuff in to give pointless moral quandaries/badly redo continuity?

Got it in 1.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on December 14, 2007, 03:17:34 PM
Magneto had to repeatedly try to wipe out humanity before people had the whole moral discussion about just killing him for the greater good but Cable kidnaps a baby and suddenly the gloves are off? Have the X-men actually changed that much or are the writers just writing stuff in to give pointless moral quandaries/badly redo continuity?

The new mutant child could be the key to saving the mutant race, which is currently bordering on extinction.  Cable has unknown plans for the child, but they obviously conflict with what the X-men have planned, since he faked his own death, and more recently might have been the cause of the sentinels parked outside the X-men's mansion attacking (and they were quite willing to use lethal force).


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Llava on December 14, 2007, 03:45:40 PM
And after I posted, I read this week's X-Factor where the first thing that happens is Prof. X yelling at Scott for authorizing deadly force on Cable, and Scott saying stfu I'm in charge now and we are done fucking around.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on December 14, 2007, 04:00:23 PM
I liked the part where everyone sneaks past the guard, only to have Warpath just knock the guard out.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on December 20, 2007, 05:36:23 PM
Only thing I currently have to say about New X-men #45 is that having a character shot doesn't work as a dramatic moment when that character is fucking Caliban.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Cim on December 20, 2007, 05:42:57 PM
Wait, I just thought about something;  Isn't Cable Cyclops' kid from the future?


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on December 20, 2007, 06:09:04 PM
Wait, I just thought about something;  Isn't Cable Cyclops' kid from the future?

Yes.  Cyclops has sent a team out to kill his own son.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Cim on December 22, 2007, 12:55:46 AM
That is awesome in so many different ways.

I read this alternate world X-Men comic years ago.  Xavier dies and Magneto takes up the X-Men leader mantel and it made cable all sorts of bad ass.
They should bring HIM in to remove the cable that sucks.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: SnakeCharmer on December 26, 2007, 11:18:29 PM
I *really* don't need to read these threads.  All they're doing is stomping all over the dreams of my childhood.

I actually went to the local B&N to check out some of the new stuff.  After about reading about 8-10 of them in the store, I put them back and vowed never to read another comic again.

Fuck you, Marvel/DC....


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on December 27, 2007, 05:15:49 AM
I *really* don't need to read these threads.  All they're doing is stomping all over the dreams of my childhood.

I actually went to the local B&N to check out some of the new stuff.  After about reading about 8-10 of them in the store, I put them back and vowed never to read another comic again.

Fuck you, Marvel/DC....


You're reading the wrong stuff.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on December 27, 2007, 10:36:25 AM
Amen. You want good X-Men? Find Grant Morrison's X-Men run, then don't read anything after that until they package up the Mike Carey stuff (and the Brubaker before this Messiah Complex thing).


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Cim on December 27, 2007, 08:09:47 PM
I want good stuff!


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on January 11, 2008, 04:58:33 AM
It's a strange world when one of the only things I'm enjoying from Marvel right now happens to be an X-men crossover.  I haven't really said anything about the two most recent parts of the story and... well, that's not really going to change here either.  Marvel has managed to keep the weekly pace up on this series, so I'm content to wait for the last two issues before saying anything else here.

I will mention though that New X-men seems to be in an unenviable position of trying to wrap up the book during a crossover.  The result is that a final showdown with Predator X next issue seems shoehorned into the MC story.  It has nothing to do with the story of the Mutant Messiah either plotwise or thematically, but in aside from the Purifiers, whom the New X-men just faced off against,  Predator X is the closest thing the team has to a nemesis.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on January 24, 2008, 01:35:11 PM
Ok, Messiah Complex finally wrapped up yesterday.  Overall I think it's a pretty successful crossover, especially compared to Marvel's recent output.  Sure, I've got some nitpicks about that last issue.  Bachalo's art flat out sucks at times here, especially in the opening face off between Cable and Bishop (and since when has Bishop carried around a gun that requires ammunition?).  Also, one of the characters gets drastically injured at the end.  From the way the book is written, and the fact that the characters are all just standing around the "body" rather than rushing him to a hospital, it really does look like the character is dead.  Reading the solicits for the next few months though (some of which are actually provided at the end of this issue), shows that the character is actually in a coma, making the last few pages of this book not make a lot of sense when you look at them.  I'm also not sure what they're doing with Bishop's character.  This new background they've given him doesn't seem to match up at all with the X.S.E. stuff, unless there's something I've missed in the past that reveals how Bishop's timeline goes from having all mutants locked up in an internment camp, to the formation of the X.S.E..

On the plus side, the kids get to see a play a somewhat important role, and their replacement book, Young X-men, is now solicited for April.  Marc Guggenheim is writing, which I'm looking forward too.  I didn't think his work on the last Blade comic was all that great (but then the last time anyone knew what to do with that character was in Nightstalkers), but his short run on the Flash (the arc where Bart dies) I thought was really good.  Uncanny seems to have a bizarre story arc coming up, involving an alternate version of San Francisco in 1968.  Crime novelist Duane Swierczynski, who has only written 3 or 4 individual comics for Marvel in the past has been put on the new Cable book.




Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on January 25, 2008, 11:53:11 AM
So that's what they were building to?

Blearg. You were right about the art, it was some of Bacahlo's worst. The solicits for the next X-Men issues don't make any sense.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Lantyssa on January 25, 2008, 12:43:11 PM
Was anything resolved, or was it just to cripple/coma/kill this one character?


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on January 25, 2008, 01:07:43 PM
Spoilers in black:







X-Men disbanded, X-ForceFurry created, X-Men kill a bunch of minor villain characters, Bishop turns into a turd, Layla Miller banished in the future, Madrox has an M-tattoo, New X-Men get yet another new book, Xavier in a coma, Rogue kills Mystique, loses all 8 billion personas except Mystiques and her own, fucks off somewhere else.  

Lot of little nothings. Cyclops turning into a "Just kill everyone between us and the baby" kind of guy was retarded.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Llava on January 25, 2008, 01:23:31 PM

Rogue kills Mystique

Mystique isn't dead. They're pretty clear on that.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on January 25, 2008, 02:19:43 PM
Oh well, even bigger waste of time then.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Johny Cee on January 26, 2008, 11:00:09 AM
Amen. You want good X-Men? Find Grant Morrison's X-Men run, then don't read anything after that until they package up the Mike Carey stuff (and the Brubaker before this Messiah Complex thing).

Mike Carey is still writing comics?  I thought he had moved on to churning out urban fantasy novels.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on January 26, 2008, 04:19:57 PM
Carey's run is pretty good.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on January 26, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
Oh well, even bigger waste of time then.

I wouldn't exactly call it a waste (aside from the damage done to Bishop's character), but I would say that this story didn't require a 13 part crossover, and there's somewhat of a large plot hole as to why Cable couldn't have just gone to Cyclops for help in the first place.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on February 07, 2008, 03:40:05 AM
Uncanny 495 reinforces my idea that the end of MC would have worked a lot better without all the empty drama at the end in regards to Prof. X "dying" and the X-men disbanding.  From the start of this issue Cyclops pretty much admits that the X-men aren't disbanding, they're all just more or less on vacation trying to sort things out.  So in this issue we get Cyclops and Emma getting some downtime in the Savage Land, and Wolverine, Colossus, and Nightcrawler traveling around in Germany and then heading off to Russia.  Some beautiful art from Mike Choi helps sell the issue, and there's also always been something about issues where we get to see the X-men getting some time to relax, particularly after big storylines that I've always found intriguing.  The post-Onslaught issue of Uncanny which consists entirely of them all getting together for breakfast for instance, I found to be better than anything in the actually Onslaught crossover itself.

More issues like this please.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Lantyssa on February 07, 2008, 02:17:46 PM
... Wolverine, Colossus, and Nightcrawler traveling around in Germany and then heading off to Russia.
Just like the ol' days.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on February 16, 2008, 05:21:08 PM
Continuing on with the post-MC X-books, this last week saw the release of X-Factor #28, and thanks to a one week delay, X-Force #1.

Starting off with X-Factor, Peter David once again seems to be doing his best to get some milage out of a recent crossover.  This shouldn't come as much of a surprise really.  X-Factor after all is the book that managed to turn Layla Miller from a House of M plot device into a character, did the best it could with damaged goods character Quicksilver, and put a focus on M-day and the decimation when other X-books were going off into space or doing whatever else they could just to avoid the situation.

In this issue, the team is falling apart after loosing Layla Miller in a possible future, and with Wolfsbane jumping ship to go join X-Force.  While there's a couple obligatory fight scenes, the main focus of this issue is some of the best character interaction you'll see in a Marvel comic (or just about any comic really).  Jamie and Rictor get hit the hardest by MC, and while hopefully this doesn't drag the book too far and too long into being dark and depressing, this issue leaves me wanting to see how the team continues to try to cope with everything they just lost.

I'm not really sure what to think of X-Force.  The biggest problem I think I have with it is the characterization of Cyclops, and in particular him enlisting X-23.  I'm also still not particularly moved by the death of Caliban and it falls a bit flat as any sort of motivation for Warpath.  In fact, with Wolfsbane only getting about two lines of dialogue in this issue, Logan is the only one that really makes sense in this book so far (and to be fair I think the writers did a good job getting Logan right).  There is some clunky fucking dialogue in this book though with the worst offender being Warpath's "He was going to kill you so I -  I killed him" rationalization for what I would presume to be the first time he's killed somebody.

I enjoy Clayton Crane's art in general, although I think maybe he isn't the greatest sequential storyteller.  His action scenes feel a bit muddied, and there's some blur effects he uses at times that bring Bourne style shakycam stuff to mind when I see it.  I'm not really fond of the glowing red eyes on all the members of X-Force either.  I assume they're supposed to be special lenses or something in their masks, but it just looks silly.

There have also been a number of ads and previews for Young X-men.  I suppose my biggest problem so far is that Dust and Rockslide are the only members returning to the team, with Wolfcub (who has only ever really been a background character) and Blindfold also joining them (and the promo art for her makes her look slightly more active than we've seen her in the past).  No Surge, Elixer, Prodigy, Mercury, Hellion, etc...?  I don't have a problem with writers wanting to introduce a new character or two, but I just don't want to see some of Marvel's more interesting characters get shuffled off to the void like with what happened with a lot of the Generation X characters.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: TenaciousMike on February 18, 2008, 10:33:05 PM
with what happened with a lot of the Generation X characters.

Actually, they're still around.  Jubilee and Chamber are New Warriors.  M is in X-Factor.  Penance/Hallow is the only once not really in an active book, he was in Loners last year, though.

The rest are dead.  (I think Husk was depowered in DeciMation and killed in New X-men, but I can't find confirmation of it...)

So, they're still around (or dead).


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on February 19, 2008, 01:59:30 AM
with what happened with a lot of the Generation X characters.

Actually, they're still around.  Jubilee and Chamber are New Warriors.  M is in X-Factor.  Penance/Hallow is the only once not really in an active book, he was in Loners last year, though.

The rest are dead.  (I think Husk was depowered in DeciMation and killed in New X-men, but I can't find confirmation of it...)

Husk is still around.  It was a different Guthrie sibling that died in New X-men.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on March 06, 2008, 12:50:32 PM
People who don't want to read spoilers for the end of Astonishing X-men might want to avoid reading Uncanny for a bit.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: TenaciousMike on March 09, 2008, 09:47:04 PM
People who don't want to read spoilers for the end of Astonishing X-men might want to avoid reading Uncanny for a bit.

Yeah, wish I'd been warned ahead of time. ><


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Cim on March 13, 2008, 03:00:20 PM
I was happy with Astonishing when it first started, why do good things have to end so horribly.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on March 16, 2008, 02:48:00 PM
Various bits of X-men related information have come out of Wizard World LA:

- In addition to the already announced Quicksilver one-shot, Peter David will also be writing a Layla Miller one-shot continuing the plot thread of her being stuck in Bishop's future.

- Longshot and Darwin will be joining the X-Factor cast at some point.

- Ellis and Bianchi's Astonishing run will be 24 issues long.  When asked about how they'll keep on track with the scheduling, editor Axel Alonso gave the stock (and not particularly comforting) explanation of using the lead time to get sizable head start.

- Cyclops will again be the team leader of the Astonishing team.  If they keep getting great writers to write Cyclops, things may reach the point where I don't wish death on the character any more.  Of course Ellis was unable to make Dr. Druid intersting many years, but made up for it by having Hellstrom burn him to a crisp.  I'd settle for something similar here.  Beast, Emma Frost, Wolverine, Storm and Armor appear to round out the cast.

- Matt Fraction, will be joining his Iron Fist co-writer Ed Brubaker on Uncanny X-men as well staring with issue #500 along with artists Greg Land and Terry Dodson.  Faction and Brubaker will alternate on writing, with Faction writing issues #501-503.  From the promotional art, Cyclops, Emma Frost, and Wolverine appear to be in both this book in addition to being in Astonishing.  Here they are joined by Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Pixie (from New X-men).  The team will apparently be relocating to San Francisco, even beyond the current story arc.

- The Wither plot thread from New X-men will be continued at some point in X-Force.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Llava on March 17, 2008, 01:51:13 AM
Beast, Emma Frost,  :awesome_for_real: Wolverine :awesome_for_real:, Storm and Armor appear to round out the cast.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on March 17, 2008, 02:46:17 AM
Beast, Emma Frost,  :awesome_for_real: Wolverine :awesome_for_real:, Storm and Armor appear to round out the cast.

But it's Ellis writing Wolverine.  There has to be some potential in that.  Hell, I like Wolverine as written by Whedon or Brubaker.  It's the other five or six guys writing him each month that need to fuck off.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Llava on March 17, 2008, 04:27:23 AM
He's leading another X-team at the moment, isn't he?

And he's in the Avengers?

And solo books?

Do we really need him in this book on top of all that?

I know, I know.  :dead_horse:


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Lantyssa on March 17, 2008, 08:21:18 AM
Being multiple Skrulls was a little far out.  Maybe he has been infected with the Maddrox virus?


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on March 17, 2008, 04:36:11 PM
He's leading another X-team at the moment, isn't he?

And he's in the Avengers?

And solo books?

Do we really need him in this book on top of all that?

Yes, I need to see Ellis' take on the character.  It Wolverine's other books we don't need.  X-Force is shaping up to be crap, he doesn't need to be in the Avengers, nor does he need three solo books (Wolverine, Origins, and the new Wolverine: First Class book) and various one-shots like "Wolverine: The Amazing Immortal Man And Other Bloody Tales" (no I'm not making that title up).


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on March 18, 2008, 10:22:07 AM
various one-shots like "Wolverine: The Amazing Immortal Man And Other Bloody Tales" (no I'm not making that title up).

Oh for fuck's sake.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: HaemishM on March 20, 2008, 03:45:08 PM
People who don't want to read spoilers for the end of Astonishing X-men might want to avoid reading Uncanny for a bit.

Yeah, no shit. I read it having completely forgotten about this statement. That just plain fucking sucks it. Just when we had a writer who knew how to write taht character.

As for X-Force, yeah that book is shit. The artwork reminds me way too much of the muddy, grim tone of all the Marvel books now. It's like all the light has been drained from the Marvel Universe, and all that's left is shit-covered shit. Cyclops has now gone from one of my faves to a complete fucking douchebag. He's essentially telling Wolverine that killing is not only acceptable, but do it as much as possible plzkthx. X-Force isn't even about doing "what's necessary" it's about slaughtering the fuck out of whoever gets in the way. Wolverine actually had better characterization than Cyclops with his valid concern about X-23. I will be surprised if this book makes it 24 issues.

X-Factor I'm not sure about anymore, with the removal of Rahne and all the angsty depression lately. But the addition of Arcade was a welcome one. He's just not used enough these days.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Khaldun on March 28, 2008, 11:47:46 AM
Brubaker and Fraction, hooray.

Greg "trace with my lightbox" Land? Puke.

What a horrible combination. That's like getting a beautifully cooked steak with shit sauce on top.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on March 29, 2008, 03:46:47 AM
X-Men Legacy #209 shipped a few days ago, and remains a difficult book to judge.  This is the second issue since the book was re-branded and given a change of focus.  At first it seemed like the book's premise was going to be "Xavier has flashbacks of the past while in a coma", but since he regains consciousness partway into the issue, I'm not sure exactly where Carey is going with all this.

What I do know is that in this issue Carey manages to do the umpteenth rehash of the debate between Magneto and Xavier's philosophies, but for all the feeling that we've been there and done that several times before, the characterization is spot on, and it's always intersting seeing these two reconnect every so often.  Magneto is (supposedly) depowered, and Xavier just had half his brain blasted away, and they've both seen that after all this time neither of their dreams have amounted to shit, so it is good to see Carey playing with how that effects their always fluctuating friendship/rivalry.

Exodus is a character I remain skeptical about.  He started off as very much a product of the 90's when he was created.  He was one of those characters that the writers made to be mysterious, just because they thought that was what made Wolverine popular.  Like a lot of 90's characters he dropped out of sight for a while, but now he's back and being used as a replacement Magneto.  I guess the positive side of that is that it fills that niche for now, allowing Magneto to go do something else and be a more interesting character for however long this lasts.  It also allows for moments like the one near the end of the issue between Magneto and Exodus, where it's almost like Magneto is talking to a younger version of himself and realizing how stupid he was back then.  I still can't say I like Exodus in his own right, but Carey is setting up an interesting conflict for the next issue.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on April 05, 2008, 05:10:38 AM
So, Young X-Men #1 then...

Having enjoyed the previous iterations of this book, I'd have to say I'm pretty disappointed with how this relaunch turned out.  Look, I like Blindfold, but she only works in small doses, especially due to her speech pattern (which Guggenheim must have noticed since it gets dropped for a sentence or two here and there).  Rockslide feels incredibly flat here compared to the humorously tactless character he was in the previous volumes, while Dust is lacking any characterization here whatsoever, and don't even get me started on trying to figure out why Wolfcub is part of the main cast.

There's nothing approaching a character moment in this book.  Cyclops forms this team because they're the last generation of mutants.  Why he feels that's a good reason for them to put on costumes and fight supervillains isn't made clear, nor is any case made for why he chose these mutants in particular, or why they would want to join for that matter.  If anything, you'd think the X-Men would want to avoid actively putting the youngest generation the nearly extinct mutant species in harms way, especially with the rest of the X-Men teams laying low for the time being.  In fact, the entire premise of Cyclops putting this team together feels like a complete conflict with what's going on in the main X-men books, where the characters are still trying to sort out exactly what direction they're going to take in putting the X-men back together.

All in all the book is a mess with no characterization, and a direction that doesn't fit in with the line as a whole right now.

Meanwhile Cable #2 continues to drag out the Cable vs. Bishop conflict essentially making it feel like Messiah Complex never actually ended.  Really, this is a bad way to launch a new book.  Instead of getting an idea of this title's direction, we're getting a seemingly unending epilogue to MC.  Remember back when the first couple issues of a new book set up the direction of the book, and introduced you to the supporting cast?  Instead I feel like I'm reading a reworked proposal for Nomad 2099 or something.

If Cable's job is to keep the baby safe, why the fuck is he teleporting to "random point in the future where a lot of people seem to be wandering the streets with guns" to get into gunfights with said baby strapped to his chest?  I like the new directions both X-Men books and X-Factor are taking post-MC, but every launch/relaunch that has come out of the crossover has been total crap.


Title: Re: X-men: Endangered Species/Messiah Complex
Post by: Velorath on July 03, 2008, 02:56:46 AM
The final issue of Whedon's run on Astonishing shipped a few weeks back, and now Ellis' first issue has hit stores.  I'd like to hope that this isn't the last time we see two issues of Astonishing X-Men ship in close proximity, but I'd be fooling myself.

Whedon's run ends in a manner consistent with his entire run.  The story itself isn't great.  Hell, this issue could be summed up as "the X-men try to stop a giant bullet from hitting the Earth".  His strength has been in how well he writes the characters, and this issue is no different.  It was lessened somewhat by the spoilers that appeared over in Uncanny, but there's nothing to be done about that now I supposed.  Also, it has to be said that I am really going to miss Cassaday's art on this book.  Sure most, if not all the delays were probably on his end (though largely Mavel's fault for assigning him more work and prioritizing it over his X-Men stuff, but some things are worth the wait.

Briefly want to mention Uncanny #499 here, which is part four of Brubaker's five part time killing exercise before he can firmly establish the X-Men's new status quo in issue #500, even though other writers are already leapfrogging ahead of him and running with the new setup.  This has been a rather clunky storyline.  The Wolverine, Nightcrawler, and Colossus storyline has been fun, although I could have done without it being dragged down into an Omega Red fight.  The San Francisco "hippie" storyline on the other hand had several issues of build up only to be quickly resolved with a couple panels of Emma breaking Martinique Wyngarde's control.  It's anticlimactic, and it doesn't help that in the middle of it, Angel rescues someone from getting hit by a car and she just happens to be the mayor, and that's how they end up getting invited to relocate to S.F..  I love Brubaker's work on Cap.  I want to love his work here, but I'm starting to get the feeling he doesn't have complete control here.

Onto Astonishing X-Men #25 and Warren Ellis... well, I don't really have much to say here yet.  As one of the aforementioned writers who is skipping ahead of Brubaker's current arc and just getting right into the S.F. set up, he seems to be stealing a bit of Brubaker's thunder here.  While other books like X-Factor have merely mentioned the X-Men's move to the West Coast in passing, Ellis actually spends a lot of time here showing us the team's new base and transportation, as well as their working relationship with the local authorities.  In fact, it's hard to judge this issue, since it's largely set-up.  I don't think Ellis writes the characters as well as Whedon, but he comes close enough that the transition isn't as jarring as it could have been.  All in all, not a lot happens, although we do get a very basic setup for what the villains here are, as well as some talk of a junkyard where all the crashed space ships on Earth get taken to (which feels very out of place here since it seems like something that would have been mentioned in the Marvel Universe before now).