My Xbox red ringed... Has yours?

[schild]

No, my set does 720p just fine. But, it fucks up the PS2 thing. You've heard reports about PS2 stuff looking better on the PS2. That's because the PS3 isn't outputting through HDMI or Component when the PS2 shit is enabled at 480p. It's not anti-aliasing either. In other words. Man, PS2 games suck balls on it.

This sentence makes absolutely no sense. The only way to get hi-def out of a PS3 is HDMI and Component. Try to explain the above paragraph better plz.

[OcellotJenkins]

No, my set does 720p just fine. But, it fucks up the PS2 thing. You've heard reports about PS2 stuff looking better on the PS2. That's because the PS3 isn't outputting through HDMI or Component when the PS2 shit is enabled at 480p. It's not anti-aliasing either. In other words. Man, PS2 games suck balls on it.

This sentence makes absolutely no sense. The only way to get hi-def out of a PS3 is HDMI and Component. Try to explain the above paragraph better plz.

Those are your words not mine pal.  So do PS2 games suck on it or not?

[schild]

That was before the 1.8 firmware update. Since then I've had not a Single Problem with PS2 titles. And yes, they look better now. I can't believe I wrote that sentence.

[OcellotJenkins]

That was before the 1.8 firmware update. Since then I've had not a Single Problem with PS2 titles. And yes, they look better now.

Good to hear.

[Righ]

That was before the 1.8 firmware update. Since then I've had not a Single Problem with PS2 titles. And yes, they look better now.

I get to recycle this:

[Yegolev]

The aliasing problem was fixed back in February for me.  1.80 actually went further and added upscaling.  There are no BC issues of note in the PS3, although I do suspect the emualtion is causing my hangups in SMT: Digital Devil Saga.  No other problems, though.

Since 1.80, however, I have had a new Sixaxis problem, this one requiring me to get up off my ass and powercycle the PS3 two times.  Probably only happens when playing PS2 games.

[bhodi]

Retailers Estimate Xbox 360 Failure Rate High as 33 Percent

In an effort to gain a more accurate picture of Xbox 360 failure rate, DailyTech decided to poll retail outlets that sell the Xbox 360 and with it the option to purchase an in-store extended warranty. Out of all Xbox 360 extended warranties sold, we wanted to know how many were claimed by consumers with defective consoles, thus giving us a more accurate failures percentage.

[LanTheWarder]

It's amazing to me that almost every single person on this board that has one has had it fail....

I'm glad I didn't pay for mine.

Mine hasn't failed.  Yet...

You are just seeing the people who had problems.  This is typical of message boards which, if you check message boards for information on something, generally makes everything seem like crap.

Should I make a post asking people how many Wii's have failed? Similar sales numbers hasn't been out as long but I'm not hearing anything about huge numbers of returns or failures.

Most people are going to complain about something when it happens to them but when 15 people chime in and say me too there might actually be a real problem.

[LanTheWarder]

r u criminal?

My buddy got it for me for Christmas, I wouldn't have paid 400 for a console.

[Azazel]

No one said anything about Blu-Ray, fuckoff.

Oh, sorry mate. I thought this was like every other fucking console thread where you start ragging on the Wii and worshipping at the altar of PS3.

The point was that at $400, you should expect the 360 to break, it's too cheap for the high tech shit inside.

Then, in all seriousness, doesn't that apply to the PS3 at $600 as well, seeing as the hardware is pretty similar if not better technically, and has the blu-ray on top of the rest?

[schild]

Then, in all seriousness, doesn't that apply to the PS3 at $600 as well, seeing as the hardware is pretty similar if not better technically, and has the blu-ray on top of the rest?

Don't ask me why Sony is willing to lose money on the PS3 the way they are. I'm pretty sure, with the build quality of the 360, Microsoft has got to be making money. But the PS3, that thing is a goddamn tank. It's built like audiophile equipment.

[CmdrSlack]

THIRTY-SEVEN?

[Strazos]

As appalling as a failure rate in the mid-30s may look, I can see how that is possible.

FAR too many 360s are coming back, and they can't All be breaking due to Stupid Customers.

[cmlancas]

As appalling as a failure rate in the mid-30s may look, I can see how that is possible.

FAR too many 360s are coming back, and they can't All be breaking due to Stupid Customers.

I don't know, I could easily see 10-15% due to sheer stupidity. I work in retail and I hate it.

Sample customer:

I mean, why would my box have melted? Sure, I kept it in an airtight space that doubled as a space heater, but I don't understand why it stopped working. Fix it.

[Strazos]

Yeah, there are definitely idiot customers buying the thing, but even after you account for that, Far Too Many systems are being returned. Let's be conservative and say 17% of the systems are outright failing. Way Too Many.

[cmlancas]

Aye. If the problem really is that the box runs too hot, why not just tack on some el cheapo fans until the thing runs cooler.  I think I saw something about mobo board flexing -- couldn't a nice fan mount and a fan do the trick? I never would have believed how beneficial a 120mm fan (granted that is big for a 360) was until I actually put one in my fiance's rig. It runs at room temperature -- I really thought that I had broken the thermometer hardware when I first tested the PC.

[Strazos]

Yeah, big fans are nice. There's an Antec or somesuch case going around that makes liberal use of large fans for intake and exhaust.

Even though I love my Lian-Li case, it's basically a black aluminum hotbox with some decent fans spread around. The next case I build with will be making cooling and airflow priorities.


Somewhat related, but I hate that there is a legitimate market and demand for aftermarket coolers for the 360. It's a console - shit is just supposed to work out-of-the-box.

[schild]

Just got my Elite today from the latest shipment. IRONICALLY, when I re-plugged in my old one to get The Darkness out before I brought it back to the store, the fucker red ringed.

It's definitely quieter and cooler.

[cmlancas]

Completely agree Strazos. How about a 90MM below the flex point of the motherboard and a 90MM above it? I think that would solve the problems people are having with the poor hardware.


And to reply to our psuedo-derail, airflow makes a ridiculous difference. I really was quite ignorant until I built this last PC. I just figured AMDs ran hot and there was not much I could do about it. However, when I really focused on it in my last build, the results were astounding. I'm quite surprised that it seems it was overlooked in the 360.

[Strazos]

Well, as a rule, AMDs do run hot, but it can be controlled.

My poor old Athlon XP is so beat up, I'm happy that it boots up when I need it to. I've taken to just leaving it on, because even after I login to my desktop, once I try to launch Anything, it can take 1-5 minutes before the desktop will actually "work."

[Trippy]

Well, as a rule, AMDs do run hot, but it can be controlled.

No, that's not a rule.

[cmlancas]

Well, as a rule, AMDs do run hot, but it can be controlled.

No, that's not a rule.

Trippy is totally right, but I should've stated I was working with a 3400+. He's certainly much more tech savvy than I.

[LanTheWarder]

I think when I get my 360 back I am going to buy one of these.
Xbox 360 4-in-1 Charging Fan Stand

I've heard the Nyko Intercooler causes more problems than it fixes, but I can't see how this could do anything but help and it's got a charger.

[Strazos]

Well, as a rule, AMDs do run hot, but it can be controlled.

No, that's not a rule.

 

Can we say that MY AMD runs hot, as a rule?

[Trippy]

Well, as a rule, AMDs do run hot, but it can be controlled.

No, that's not a rule.

Can we say that MY AMD runs hot, as a rule?

Sure.

[Yoru]

Then, in all seriousness, doesn't that apply to the PS3 at $600 as well, seeing as the hardware is pretty similar if not better technically, and has the blu-ray on top of the rest?

Don't ask me why Sony is willing to lose money on the PS3 the way they are. I'm pretty sure, with the build quality of the 360, Microsoft has got to be making money. But the PS3, that thing is a goddamn tank. It's built like audiophile equipment.

It's called a Loss Leader. Basic business strategy, you sell your base unit at a loss in order to entice more people to buy it (see: elastic demand curve), then make your money on products that depend on the base unit. Also called the Razor and Blades strategy. In this case, the 'blades' are the license fees collected per PS3 disc sold, as well as dev kits and peripherals.

Same reason Microsoft sold their console at a loss initially, although manufacturing costs at this point are probably down to break-even or minor profitability. At full price, the market for these machines would be much smaller - at least initially. And both Sony and Microsoft were desperate to "win" this round of consoles via marrying themselves to HD and trying to outsell the other to get that larger install base with which to pimp their platform to publishers in order to suckle on the sweet tit of Madden's platform license fees.

And I have to say, this thread pretty much held my nascent desire to get a 360 for Mass Effect and a few other titles under the water until it drowned in the tub. I'll wait for a hardware revision that doesn't have glaring structural defects. And is reasonably priced - say, $300 or less for a non-crippled model.

[Righ]

It's built like audiophile equipment.

Probably not. No, it isn't.

[schild]

Ok, wiseass, what's it built like? It's most definately built better than Audiophile on a Budget shit, but where does it cap out?

I can confidently say it's built better than my crapped out Integra 7.2 receiver.

Edit: I'm snippy tonight for some reason, apologies.

[Bunk]

Got my Elite the week after they came out, only issue so far is one time it hung on booting. Turned it on and off and it was fine.

It Hung or the graphics turned into a checkerboard.

If it's the latter, oh man, that sucks.

No, nothing like that. I turned it on and no picture came up. I turned it off and on again and everything worked.

[Murgos]

THIRTY-SEVEN?

TRY NOT TO SUCK ANY DICK ON THE WAY OUT OF THE PARKING LOT!!!

Took me forever to get that.  Kudos sir, your brilliance has astounded me.

[HaemishM]

Well-played, Clerks. I didn't get it until you said something. I knew it, it was right on the tip of my brain.

[Righ]

Ok, wiseass, what's it built like? It's most definately built better than Audiophile on a Budget shit, but where does it cap out?

Audiophile equipment is designed to do one thing well - produce high fidelity sound. Extra crap is left out of the circuits so that a minimum number of things get in the way of sound reproduction, cheap components with conventional tolerances are replaced with disturbingly expensive ones with very high tolerances and high electrical and heat stability. It also tends to be hand-built, if only because the number of units involved tends to be low due to the high prices. What Sony have done is not similar - they are using regular tolerances, complex circuits filled with compromises to fidelity to provide features - the system is well built because of manufacturing quality assurance rather than design.

[CmdrSlack]

And what's beautiful is that Clerks reference also kinda refers to the state of the 360, even though it was directed at something else.

 :mrgreen:

[Chimpy]

And what's beautiful is that Clerks reference also kinda refers to the state of the 360, even though it was directed at something else.

 :mrgreen:

I got it right away when I saw it yesterday (before you bolded it) but my only thought was to post "In a row?!?!" but it would not have added anything to the conversation.

And on the 360 thing, maybe the fact that they can be turned into decepticons and attack you through the box has something to do with the problem? heh.

[Kitsune]

Ventilation is more than just the holes in the console's case, a lot has to do with the environment it's in.  A lot of TV center furniture has little cubbyholes for the electronics that allow for NO airflow, the things just sit there and cook in their own waste heat.  It doesn't matter how open or ventilated the case is if the air is trapped just outside the case.  My old TV stand was like that, and you could nearly burn yourself by putting your hand on the receiver.  My new stand is completely open on the sides and back and has glorious ventilation for everything, and as if by magic the receiver is now much cooler.

Likewise, leaving equipment on a carpeted floor is just begging to have the underside vents plugged up by carpet.  Voila, overheat.  It's like the people who put their laptops on their beds.  Surprise, fuckers, those puffy blankets covered up the area under the computer that was supposed to give it airflow, and lo and behold it caught on fire.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that 360s are flawed for overheating when placed in a spot that denies them fresh air, but the engineers were certainly short-sighted for not taking less than optimum environments into consideration when designing the heat systems.  They should've had massively excessive cooling systems to compensate for the average living room.


As for the PS3, the scaling problems of PS2 games were fixed.  However, there are still scaling problems for PS3 games, ironically.  Owners of older HDTVs that can only do 1080i are still fucked with PS3 games that don't support 1080.  The PS3 tries to send at 720p, the TV can't do 720p, so the PS3 drops to 480p and looks like shit on their TV.  Apparently whatever method it uses to upscale PS2 games to 1080 can't be done on PS3 games.

Of course, only a very few HDTVs are out there that can't support 720p, so the problem only affects a small minority of players.  That minority is rather pissed off, though, to read their petition posts on the Playstation forums.