'Antisocial' Gaming

[Merusk]

All I can say is, The world is leaving the anti-social gaming recluse behind.  Adapt or die.   :-D

The above was a toss-out snarky comment in regards to some angst over Blizzard announcing they're integrating VOIP into the WoW client.  I meant it more as a joke than as a serious jab at 'old school' gamers, but I started thinking on it more as I was headed off to bed.  

It occours to me that this is much closer to the truth than not.  Voice Chat is being integrated into an increasing number of games.  The current generation about to hit the 'traditional' gaming age bracket has grown up with text messaging, cell phones, IMs, My Space and a much broader social network than any of us old coots ever had.  

Additionally, a game is seen as 'gimped' if it doesn't have the ability to play it with or against your friends. As such the inclusion of a multiplayer feature is almost mandatory these days and you're seeing more development without any single player component at all.  More and more computer gaming is a social activity rather than a solo activity.

I'm not saying that single player gaming is going the way of the dodo. There will always be a few titles developed with single players in mind, but it certainly seems to be that it's becoming ever more marginalized. Any one else agree with me?

[Nebu]

This may just be the cure I need to get out of gaming for good.  Listening to a bunch of middle class, snot-nosed white teenagers droping N-bombs in voice chat is enough to make me want to eat my liver with a spork.  I play games to escape from the real world... not to be reminded of the spoiled brats I left behind at work.

[Slayerik]

This may just be the cure I need to get out of gaming for good.  Listening to a bunch of middle class, snot-nosed white teenagers droping N-bombs in voice chat is enough to make me want to eat my liver with a spork.  I play games to escape from the real world... not to be reminded of the spoiled brats I left behind at work.

Oh come on, over these years you haven't found your own network of friends? If you haven't, I can hook you up with some good people :) If its just lack of playtime or strange playtimes, sadly this genre can be pretty brutal.

[SnakeCharmer]

To a very large degree, I'm in complete agreement with Merusk, and especially with Nebu.

I play games to escape.  90 percent of the time, I don't want to hear anyones voice unless it's PvP, and only then do I want to hear my teammates.  People, especially kids (anyone under 21) talk to hear themselves talk, and I just can't handle it in my old age.  I *refuse* to use voice on any xbox360 game, unless I'm doing co-op with a friend.

[Engels]

There's social and there's social. Most folks here have done the EQ1 pick up group grind fest, wether at Aviak Tower or Bastion of Thunder. There was a certain social safety in these activities, since there was an expected role for each person in the group, a pre-established social contract, if you will, that made even shy or anti social people 'ok' with the experience, for the most part.

Another thing is joining some disjointed WoW kiddie group and immediately being asked to interact over voice chat with them. I have enough of a sense of humor that I would probably navigate that hurdle, albeit ungracefully. However, I know plenty of people within my own guild who are absolutely panic-striken over the notion of voice chat with people they have known for nearly a decade online.

[Stormwaltz]

I'm of a peculiar persuasion. I like multiplayer games. But even online, I'm pretty sociophobic. I can't treat it as "just a game." I take online conversations just as seriously as face to face ones.

With people I've known for a while online or in RL, I'm fine. I get incredibly nervous interacting with utter strangers - it doesn't help that so many of them behave like asshats online. While I love BF42 and MMGs, I play them as solo games when people I know aren't around. In MMGs I avoid interacting with anyone. No PUGs, and no guild.

I think the last dedicated multiplayer game I bought was Auto Assault, and I never even activated my subscription.

[SnakeCharmer]

I'd agree with that, to an extent.  I'm an outgoing person in the really real world and would hardly be considered shy, but for whatever reason, I tend to clam up a bit in MMOs, and generally (as stated before) avoid Vent/TS/VOIP whenever possible.  Maybe it's because I'm a bit insecure in my voice (it's very deep, gravelly.  I sound much older than I actually am.  Then consider the accent) at times, and at the same time, I really don't want to hear some 16 year old going through puberty shriek and wail every 1 second.

Hard to explain...

[Morat20]

I'd agree with that, to an extent.  I'm an outgoing person in the really real world and would hardly be considered shy, but for whatever reason, I tend to clam up a bit in MMOs, and generally (as stated before) avoid Vent/TS/VOIP whenever possible.  Maybe it's because I'm a bit insecure in my voice (it's very deep, gravelly.  I sound much older than I actually am.  Then consider the accent) at times, and at the same time, I really don't want to hear some 16 year old going through puberty shriek and wail every 1 second.

Hard to explain...

I feel pretty much the same way. I generally leave my mic muted when I was forced to use TS or Vent. I don't mind listening so much, but I'm not there to make friends -- I'm trying to play a fucking game. Unless I'm leading something, I've got no interest in speaking. And if you're not leading it, I don't have much interest in hearing it.

As it is I'm trying to keep track of what my wife's saying in the same room, what my kid is up to on the other end of the house, the solitaire game I'm playing while all everyone is trying to figure out what's going on, and trying to decide if that sound is my dog coughing or yacking.

Mostly, though -- I read a LOT faster than you can speak. I can keep track of five or ten parallel conversations in text, but if you're all talking I can't -- plus, I can't figure out who the hell is speaking half the time.

[AcidCat]

I'm not there to make friends -- I'm trying to play a fucking game.

As it is I'm trying to keep track of what my wife's saying in the same room, what my kid is up to on the other end of the house

This is true for me as well, one of the reasons my family tolerates me playing WoW so much is I'm right there in the living room with them, usually talking and interacting to one extent or another. I'm not going to shut out my family by putting on headphones as an additional obligation to the game.

And I think it just comes down to personality too - for introverts like myself, interacting with other people is a drain. It's an effort. Not so much with text, but voice is much different - it really becomes something personal like talking on the phone. I hate talking on the fucking phone - I do it all day long at work and chatting with people - wether its strangers or guildies I've "known" for years - is just not something I want to do in my escapist entertainment.

[SnakeCharmer]

Another thing is, I spend so much time talking on the phone during the day, the last thing I really want to do to keep talking once I get home.

MMOs are an escape.  I don't want to interact with anyone unless I deem it necessary to do so.

The flip side to that is:  Then why play MMOs if you don't want to interact?

For the most part, other players to me are just well coded'd NPCs, and I keep a close circle of friends that I help and rely on them to help me.  Other players add more 'life' and 'flavor' to the game.  They're an optional path for me to take should I decide to take that road.


Oddly enough, I've noticed I have three 'personalities' when it comes to games/gaming:
1)  My ingame personality
2)  My forum personality (Forums dedicated TO that game.  I tend to forumwhore the official boards, making most of my 'friends' there)
3)  My real personality (which is seen here)

[Strazos]

Most people in MMGs nowadays are fucking asshats (as if they weren't previously  ). I really don't want to hear them. Hell, I have a hard enough time tolerating what they type out.

I can use VOIP with F13 well enough, but I have no interest in using it with random people. I don't mind listening on CS sometimes if what's being said is actually pertinent to the game, but I cannot be bothered to talk usually.

[stray]

@Merusk: Are you just asking your question is relation to MMO's? If so, then naturally, I agree. The very cornerstone of the genre is socializing. I like to solo myself in them sometimes, but even I know I'm a freak for doing it. It's just not the right way to go about it.

As for other games, I disagree. The number of single player oriented experiences compared to multiplayer ones is still pretty immense.

[waylander]

To a very large degree, I'm in complete agreement with Merusk, and especially with Nebu.

I play games to escape.  90 percent of the time, I don't want to hear anyones voice unless it's PvP, and only then do I want to hear my teammates.  People, especially kids (anyone under 21) talk to hear themselves talk, and I just can't handle it in my old age.  I *refuse* to use voice on any xbox360 game, unless I'm doing co-op with a friend.

This is my preference as well, and why my guild will continue to support its 150 man vent server regardless of what new games offer.  I don't want to hear the dumbasses that already annoy the shit out of me with their stupid text spam.

[Tairnyn]

Add me to the list of people who feels uncomfortable using voice chat in games. I play role-playing games games to play a role, to be someone that I'm not in real life. Having to communicate using my own voice robs me of the ability to apply the 'filter' of being my character (without sounding like a total idiot, anyway) rather than just being me playing my avatar. The games that I use as an escape at times are becoming the very social interactions that I play games to avoid. For me, this is the nail in the coffin for the RP in MMORPG. The immersion is completely shattered by the voices of the reality I'm trying to escape. If only they could allow us to speak without using our own voices.

Having spent years learning how to communicate effectively through text or in-game action only, (without vocal or visual cues) voice chat seems like I'm learning all over again how to communicate using only vocal cues. I agree that it's mentally draining to be constantly prepared and willing to communicate, much like being on the phone with someone. There's no delete key or preparation time that text chat gives you, and I honestly don't feel as confident or intelligent in that setting. Sometimes I just want to zone out and play without having to be burdened with active communication with someone I may or may not like. The option of ignoring someone becomes less plausible when communication becomes audibly invasive.

On the other hand, I really like voice chat in situations where reaction time is critical. When playing BF2142 it's critical to be able to call out targets within a second without having to resort to typing and hoping they see it. Some of the best WoW groups I've been in were run by people with a good leadership personality via voice chat.

[Nija]

GET OFF MY LAWN

[Flood]

I also am in the same boat as Nebu, Merusk and well, most of the replies in this thread so far.  I admit to feeling a certain amount of justification when I read your guys replies because when I tell someone I've met in game that I refuse to use Vent/TS - I get routinely chastised.  As a tangent I think that's another symptom of MMO's generation 1 now being eclipsed my MMO Generation 2.  But that's another topic.

When I login to a game like WoW, I am in escapist mode.  I like the fact that I can have stimulating social interaction with living beings (not computer scripted AI), but if I wanted to sit and talk to people like I do all day in my job, I'd pick up the phone or go out on the town.  The other aspect of it is what I call "Light Switch Syndrome".  When you spend a lot of time on a computer you have total control over what you see, how much you see, and the duration in which you wish to see it.  I find people I know that spend waaaay too much time online get that disconnect from RL going, because they are used to being able to turn things and people "off and on" at will.  I am affected by this too, and it definitely affects my desire to have voice chat with people.  It's harder to extricate yourself from a group if you're all being chatty buddies that it is through more impersonal text.

I dunno, I just am not comfortable losing one more layer of separation in my online persona.  Also I'd say 8 of 10 people I meet in WoW are treading water in the shallow end of the gene pool, or are 14 years old.  If I want to hear people like that talk I can turn on one of those MTV shows about "real life".

[Darkgar]

They have VOIP in LOTRO but no one uses it.  I don't mind vent/TS but it is not really necessary to play any of these games.  I played years of EQ with just  chat macros and learning to type in what I wanted to say even during tough raids that I led as raid leader even.  Relying on voice can be a crutch though, you can do better having dedicated chat channels and having your players know how to play their classes to begin with.

But yes, hearing some lonely 20-somethings drunken diatribe on his odd sex life in real time does not appeal to me.

[Hellinar]

The current generation about to hit the 'traditional' gaming age bracket has grown up with text messaging, cell phones, IMs, My Space and a much broader social network than any of us old coots ever had.   

Yeah. Though I don’t hang out with the crowd who are “native” to all those technologies, everything I read says there is shift going on in how they divide up time and attention etc. I think Raph has a point when he says the big MMOGs of the future won’t be WoW clones. And not just with the teenagers, I think the retiring baby boomers will come on board with the right sort of games.

As to MMORPGs specifically, I play partly to create an interesting story for my character in a fictional world. The fiction is much easier to maintain in text than in voice. I don’t raid, so I don’t really need the extra “efficiency” of voice. At the level I play at, WoW is already ridiculously easy. At least for someone who thinks many of the best stories come from defeats, or at least close calls.

Like others here, I too use voice/hearing as my local, physical location channel and don’t want that moving in game. I'm hoping Blizzard has the sense to put up some non-VOIP servers for us.

[Slayerik]

Well guys, sorry...but welcome to 2nd gen MMO.

If you want to PVP, use voice. If you want to get smoked...use text. If you want to be effective in raids, use voice. If you want to wipe, use text.

I found that I have been part of the same group of MMO peeps for about 6-7 years. I went to Eve with a friend, and guess what? I talked on vent and made a whole new set of friends while pwning noobs. So I guess I can step out of my comfort zone.

I guess what I'm saying is, its not going anywhere. Select "Mute all" or something. Its as common as ICQ use in UO. The tools always start out of game and become encorporated into them as they become the standard. You can continue to use text and I'll continue to dance on your corpse. ;)

[ShynDarkly]

A number of the typical complaints about VoIP additions to MMOs and games could be so readily addressed with a little more forethought; throw in voice changer tech to help with the RP cross-dressing issues, add in some voice base mute /ignore support, but most importantly, don't force it upon folks, and don't remove the text interface for use socio-phobes who are never going to pickup a headset anyway :p

[waylander]

They could do like BF2 and have global, local, and team (group). Then toss in a guild voip channel, and it would be like vent.

But I can personally guarentee I'll have all of them but guild and team turned off in future games. I probably wouldn't use any of them except the team one in the rare event I'm stuck with a PUG.

[Slayerik]

I think we should all sound like robots so I can RP better.

[Strazos]

If Xbox Live is any indication, VOIP is somehow going to make online gaming Less Fun. For me, anyway.

[Hellinar]

If you want to wipe, use text.

Exactly. The point is, I do want to wipe.. now and then. Sure, if you are playing to max your score, you don't want to ever wipe, and voice helps. But I am playing as much for the story as the score. A story that is "Our heroes defeated a dragon. Our heroes defeated a demon. Our heroes defeated a dragon.. " for 99 out of 100 pages is a really boring story. An adventure in which you never suffer any setbacks in not an adventure, its a vacation.

I like to hope that if Blizzard put up a non-VOIP server, it might preferentially attract people for whom winning isn't everything.

[Strazos]

Or, you know, you could just play competently instead of relying on VOIP.

[Tebonas]

Hmm, now that I think of it I never raided again after my guild switched to mandatory VoIP. Granted, I don't like raiding anyway, but thats the point where I couldn't even be bothered anymore to help other people out when they were low on manpower or had healer shortage.

[Sir Fodder]

I crave a much greater degree and more varied types of social interaction in MMOGs than what is seen at present, just without voice chat.

[Slayerik]

Or, you know, you could just play competently instead of relying on VOIP.

Gimme a break. Its like saying "learn how to fight with a sword", when it sure is more effective to point a shotgun at something and pull the trigger. If you don't use the tools available to make you (and your team) better at a game, you better ALL be extremely good at what you do. And you still wont be as good as the team of guys using the tools available.

[Engels]

EQ1 raids, probably some of the harder raid content in any MMO, has been done for years and years without the aid of voice chat. Just because millions of ADHD morons joined the Boring Legion WoW raids and can't get their shit together without someone hollering directly into their PC speakers doesn't mean that should be an expected industry standard for raiding 'tools'.

[Slayerik]

EQ1 raids, probably some of the harder raid content in any MMO, has been done for years and years without the aid of voice chat. Just because millions of ADHD morons joined the Boring Legion WoW raids and can't get their shit together without someone hollering directly into their PC speakers doesn't mean that should be an expected industry standard for raiding 'tools'.

Please attempt to argue the merits of VOIP vrs no VOIP when it comes to raiding/PVP. 

[Slayerik]

Since I am coming across as a raging VOIP lunatic, I should explain why.

Its that fucking essential in competition today. Helps when you enjoy hanging out and talking with the people you are on voice with. So, throw me in the 'social gamer' category.

[Tairnyn]

When the VoIP fails you can tell who the skilled players are versus those who are just doing what they're told when they're told. It levels the playing field by allowing the unskilled masses to be given direction faster without requiring critical thought. In my experience the cleanest, most effiicent fights are usually those in which not a word is spoken other than, "Good job" at the end. Making it an integral part of the game will not increase the skill level of your average player, in fact it will most likely do the opposite.

Like most technology, it reduces the value of having well-trained individuals that can adapt and react to unexpected challenges.

[Slayerik]

When the VoIP fails you can tell who the skilled players are versus those who are just doing what they're told when they're told. It levels the playing field by allowing the unskilled masses to be given direction faster without requiring critical thought. In my experience the cleanest, most effiicent fights are usually those in which not a word is spoken other than, "Good job" at the end. Making it an integral part of the game will not increase the skill level of your average player, in fact it will most likely do the opposite.

Like most technology, it reduces the value of having well-trained individuals that can adapt and react to unexpected challenges.

They don't need to adapt. I tell them how to adapt :)

I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying. Many of the good fights there isn't a ton being said. But when you spot a group of people about to jump you from a direction, and can make an escape or a counter...instant communication trumps all. By the time you type, and I read your alert...its already to late. Using VOIP = losing skill ? Not buying it buddy.

On the flipside, I used to do some raid leading. No amount of instant communication in the world is going to make a player go from 'horrible at what they do' to 'solid raider'. They can be yelled at appropriately though for fucking up yet again ;)

[Lightstalker]

When the VoIP fails you can tell who the skilled players are versus those who are just doing what they're told when they're told. It levels the playing field by allowing the unskilled masses to be given direction faster without requiring critical thought. In my experience the cleanest, most effiicent fights are usually those in which not a word is spoken other than, "Good job" at the end. Making it an integral part of the game will not increase the skill level of your average player, in fact it will most likely do the opposite.

Like most technology, it reduces the value of having well-trained individuals that can adapt and react to unexpected challenges.

VOIP allows your skilled individuals perform like a skilled team.  If your opposition never does anything particularly interesting or clever you are good to go without it, so long as your skilled individuals are well aquainted with both each other and the opposition.  As soon as the opposition becomes difficult, or even has the advantage, skill alone will not set aside skilled teamwork.  If the time before an action is required is much greater than the time allowed to communicate you can get by with text (or even email depending on the format).  In this context of Raiding or PvPing, where characters can die in seconds, VOIP is really the only method of communication fast enough to handle the required information flow.  We'll even skip the bit where humans hear/say information much more quickly than they can read it and again much more quickly than they can type it.

One of the chronic problems in American Rugby is that American players don't talk to each other enough on the field.  While individual technical skills may be excellent, lack of communication in the heat of competition allows weaknesses in the team to be exploited.  Teams that are always talking know where each other are, what they are planning to do, and what risks they've adopted with their current tactics.  I don't have time to write a little post-it note to hand to you when I'm trying to cover an opposition attack, similarly I don't have time to type out observations in the midst of an encounter where I need both hands to move my character and issue commands.

Personally, I prefer not to talk on VOIP in computer games - unless we're PvPing.  I use it to react to things going horribly wrong in raids since most Raids aren't really that complicated.  Raids are designed to be solved, other people are not.  It isn't like you've got to deal with 15 guys who can take your head off for both friend and foe at the same time in a Raid.  It is when you are up against other people in real time where VOIP becomes a necessity.

[Venkman]

Voice chat seems much more appropriate for games in which the lore/immersion doesn't matter, or for those young whippersnappers. If people could be relied on to be in character, and use voice fonts, I'd turn on VoIP. And if I was in a PvP setting, where I couldn't care less about being immersed in lore, yea. Otherwise, if there's voice at all, I'd prefer it come from the game world, like what EQ2 had at launch and seemed to spend money again on for Fae.

RP Immersion <> Voice, basically.