Armor Sets and the Expansion: Waste?

[jpark]

Teir 1, 2 and 3 armor sets are all level 60 gear - that represent a fair amount of work to introduce into the game and are by no means old.

With expansion going to level 70 - and mudflation what it is - is Blizzard really going to allow all these armor sets to descend into irrelevance as a level 70 green may be superior?

I find this really hard to believe.  I realize some will reach back and get the level 60 gear - but most will not - and for those that do - it will be the Teir 3 set in all likelihood.  EQ2 does not even really have armor sets - it takes a lof work to implement these things - I just find it hard to believe it will all be tossed aside.

I am hoping - but not predicting - that some sort of upgrade path will be made availabe for this gear so it retains some relevance at level 70.  Socketable items does not really work - since why bother socketing a level 60 Teir 3 armor set when you can socket a level 70 armor set?

Thoughts?

[Zane0]

From my time dredging up every hint from bluetracker, it is said that change won't be too drastic.  Karazan is supposedly where you start getting serious upgrades, and that is the first level 70 instance, so the journey from 61-70 is probably going to give tier two and three some mileage.  I'd say the average raider is looking at perhaps a few months of time post-expansion before current equipment starts seriously breaking up, but that's almost a complete shot in the dark.

What I'd like to know is how long it's going to take for me to get rid of my priest's 3-piece tier 2 set bonus; I already know that it's going to outlast what tier 3 I may receive.

[Merusk]

I was thinking about this earlier, and did some research.  I figured that most of the current raid gear would be outleveled and be about equal to blues.

 However, the Item Level on Naxx stuff is all L86+  T1 gear is only L66, and T2 is 76.. so Naxx gear will be the equiv of T2 gear when you hit the new level cap and T2 will be equiv to T1 gear now -  IF all things remain equal on Blizz's item budgets.

The real question becomes, will there be Level 96 gear out of the smaller 25-man raids or will blizz come out with a new Level+ expansion before everyone starts getting the itch for more uber runs?

[Fabricated]

It annoys me that they had to put in a completely, vastly overpowered Tier 3 set at level 60 before the expansion since it renders most of the new content totally useless for raiders outside of experience and quest rewards/disenchants for vendoring. It'll take the cool "this hasn't been beaten yet" element right out of the expansion since I imagine Tier 3 will be more than enough to run roughshot over Karazhan...because if Tier 3 and Naxx weaponry isn't enough for Karazhan, the level 65+ blues will HAVE to be better than Tier 3.

To be honest I thought Tier 2 completely rendered whatever itemization scale WoW was supposed to have moot. What's the point of item classes like rare/epic/legendary/etc if item level means jack shit in relation? Why is a level 60 epic dagger from Naxx 20+ item levels better than one from MC? Why not just make the stuff in Naxx legendary quality? That'd make more sense.

[caladein]

Math's here, but the short version is:

Any Epic requiring level 62 or higher to equip, will be better then the T1 equivalent (think world drops or Felstriker Mk. 2). Now, if gems like the ones in the preview are sort of common-place, then Full Socketed Blues at Level 70 will get very close to near T2 (the gems from the preview added about 15 levels on top of the item's base level).

T3 though is still pretty out of reach outside of the blues, and even the first bit of epics though (although a socketed BC-Tier 1 equivalent should rival it).

This course assumes that Epics will be of the same rarity pre-25-man raid as they are now, which is really the big unknown (along with gems) in terms of figuring out how current gear will stack up with all the new shinnies.

[Fabricated]

Math's here, but the short version is:

Any Epic requiring level 62 or higher to equip, will be better then the T1 equivalent (think world drops or Felstriker Mk. 2). Now, if gems like the ones in the preview are sort of common-place, then Full Socketed Blues at Level 70 will get very close to near T2 (the gems from the preview added about 15 levels on top of the item's base level).

T3 though is still pretty out of reach outside of the blues, and even the first bit of epics though (although a socketed BC-Tier 1 equivalent should rival it).

This course assumes that Epics will be of the same rarity pre-25-man raid as they are now, which is really the big unknown (along with gems) in terms of figuring out how current gear will stack up with all the new shinnies.

God I hope that isn't true. There's nothing I'd like better than Tier 3 being rendered moot at about level 65.

[Strazos]

Nice...so with mudflation, PvPing without being in a hardcore raiding guild will be even MORE pointless.

[Velorath]

I'd love to see Legendaries with sockets drop in the low 60's just to piss off all the raiders.

[Ironwood]

hahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahah


*wheeze*


hahahahahhahahahhahahahahah

Snork

Giggle.

Drool.

[Simond]

Interesting.

[Zetor]

Apparently blizz cut the ilevel requirement for stamina to 1/3 of the original value, so you'll be seeing characters with a LOT more HP in BC. I see it as a good thing, mostly -- I'm sure they're compensating for the increased HP pools in pve, and it cuts down on the 2-shot-crit-boom aspect of pvp. However, burst classes like mages and rogues might be annoyed...


-- Z.

[Phred]

Interesting.

When I saw that series of screenshots it included an obvious fake. The fake is removed but I don't believe the rest either.

The fake was labled paladin only. Can't find the pictures anymore.

[jpark]

Nice...so with mudflation, PvPing without being in a hardcore raiding guild will be even MORE pointless.

I don't think this is correct.

On an unrelated topic - pvp - Blizz has said they breaking pvp into 2 separate tracks:  grind and ladder.  Currently, pvp uses both simultataneously.  So... in the case of the pure ladder - with little grind - groups will be set-up against each other not just based on level - but on gear as well.  It's too early in the morning to provide linkies -but look up arena pvp and their plan for ladder progression for that type of pvp.

[Strazos]

Interesting.

They're all fake, especially the Band.

[Zane0]

I'm not sure if those specific items are real, but critical hit rating is in.  22 critical hit rating does not mean +22% crit though; it's technically a nerf.   At level 60 it's 14 for 1% crit, but as you level up, you will need more to get that same 1%.   This is to prevent mudflation from allowing you to eventually accumulate 50% or 60% crit, or whatever.

[caladein]

Math's here, but the short version is:

Any Epic requiring level 62 or higher to equip, will be better then the T1 equivalent (think world drops or Felstriker Mk. 2). Now, if gems like the ones in the preview are sort of common-place, then Full Socketed Blues at Level 70 will get very close to near T2 (the gems from the preview added about 15 levels on top of the item's base level).

T3 though is still pretty out of reach outside of the blues, and even the first bit of epics though (although a socketed BC-Tier 1 equivalent should rival it).

This course assumes that Epics will be of the same rarity pre-25-man raid as they are now, which is really the big unknown (along with gems) in terms of figuring out how current gear will stack up with all the new shinnies.

God I hope that isn't true. There's nothing I'd like better than Tier 3 being rendered moot at about level 65.

Well no, you'd need the set from whatever BC's version of Molten Core is (so BC-T1) and socket it with some decent gems (so 70+).

Out of the box, the BC-T1 set will be around T2, maybe a tad lower (since it may be that an item's Gem Matching Bonus, like the +6 Stam in the example, is counted in the item's itemization). With gems the level of those in the preview, it would hit T3 easy, or more then likely surpass it (this all depends on the strength of the gems though...).

It does kind of make sense that the first Raid set would beat the last one from before the expansion (by about the same difference as say, between the AQ40 and T3 sets).

(math)

[Xanthippe]

I imagine all sorts of crying from either raiders complaining their equipment is too nerfed or non-raiders crying that they cannot access levels 60-70.  What I cannot imagine is how Blizzard will make both sets of people happy.

Will it still be possible to level to 70 solo without being so painful it's no longer fun?

It will be interesting.

[Threash]

Speaking as a rogue i simply do not see how they can balance bc with current equipment disparity.  A non raiding rogue is currently sporting 40dps weapons with around 650atk power 20-25crit and maybe 5hit from random gear.  A raider would have 65dps weapons, around 1100atk power, 30-35 crit chance and around 15+ hit gear.  Theres just no way they can balance the mobs for both of those rogues, either the raiders will have zero challenge or it will be impossible for the non raiders to solo.

[Morfiend]

*Edited as I dont think I can say that*

[Ironwood]

You know, when you hit a mob and it becomes 'yours' it goes grey to other players.

Wouldn't it be interesting if it scaled at that point too.

[Kail]

You know, when you hit a mob and it becomes 'yours' it goes grey to other players.

Wouldn't it be interesting if it scaled at that point too.

Woah, I know a few hardcore raiders who would probably spontaneously combust or something if that were implemented.

"So you're saying that if I took off my purples and pulled some cheap greens off the AH that I'd actually have a EASIER time levelling?!  YEEEEEAAAAAAAARGH" *foomph*

[Ratama]

Theres just no way they can balance the mobs for both of those rogues, either the raiders will have zero challenge or it will be impossible for the non raiders to solo.

I don't see any reason why they'd radically veer from the status quo; raiders, at least the DPS class raiders, cut through non-elites of the same level faster than they can spawn; with my brother's tier-2 rogue, I can keep an entire Twilight camp cleared, without needing to eat or use consumables/timered abilities.

i'd imagine the expansion will be the same; the Tier2+ folks will out-level non-raiders quickly (which is good, as it will help clear some of the levelling-based logjams at spawns), and be back raiding asap.

[Merusk]

You know, when you hit a mob and it becomes 'yours' it goes grey to other players.

Wouldn't it be interesting if it scaled at that point too.

Woah, I know a few hardcore raiders who would probably spontaneously combust or something if that were implemented.

"So you're saying that if I took off my purples and pulled some cheap greens off the AH that I'd actually have a EASIER time levelling?!  YEEEEEAAAAAAAARGH" *foomph*

Only the idiots.   I don't plan on leveling in purples at all.  "Just" cloth can cost my T1 priest anywhere between 3-6 gold to repair.  Mail on my hunter (who has far fewer epics) costs 5-10 gold.. and I know the wars in the guild can easily hit 20g per repair without having gear in the red.   I'd much rather just take the hit on a few greens.  The highest bill I had when wearing green/blues in mail was 2g and most stuff was red then.

[Morfiend]

In full t2 leather (Bloodfang) I run abour 2g per death or so.

[Merusk]

Yeah I should mention that I don't repair after every death.

[bhodi]

In full t2 leather (Bloodfang) I run abour 2g per death or so.

whatwhatwhat?

I run 1.5 per and I'm 8/8 w/ 2 pugios.

[SurfD]

stop repairing at repairbots imo.  Learn to repair with Honoured / rank 3 faction discounts.

[Morfiend]

In full t2 leather (Bloodfang) I run abour 2g per death or so.

whatwhatwhat?

I run 1.5 per and I'm 8/8 w/ 2 pugios.

Maybe swords cost a bit more to repair? Donno.