Turn Based Strategy/Wargames

[tgr]

So, I decided to give ai wars a whirl since I'd bought it and all, and my internet was down at home. Turns out that test basically lasted me the entire weekend, with a short stint for hearts of iron 3 after ai wars didn't load one of my savegames. I guess it didn't like being up for more than 20 hours straight.

HoI3 is complex, but I did not like its UI at all. The units are just hard to look at and determine at a glance what is really going on, who's moving where. And the whole structure of armies, infantries, divisions etc is probably something that has an effect in-game, but it's not glaringly obvious what that is (and the tutorial didn't specify it either). I don't doubt that if it was my cup of tea, then it'd be pretty good after I put some time in to actually understand it, but I think I'm going to go with AI Wars on this one.

I probably wouldn't have been as frustrated with HOI3 as I am right now if I'd had the internet to google for answers/tips to what the fuck is going on (...no internet + big nerd == halp halp I'm taclked in a belt). Also, generally, it's just not my cup of tea, but I think I like my strategy games more viceral than HoI3 is. I like how I basically have to micromanage the fleets to wring as much effect out of them as possible vs the AI (I.e not just get enough units of fighters to counteract bombers etc).

And, unlike the AI in sins of a solar empire, this one is beatable, but god damn is he vicious in some systems. One of the last things I tried before I went to bed this morning (...4 hours after I thought "I should probably go to bed soon, but I just need to take out this one system"), was to try to take out a 3000-3500 ship system with a fleet of 7500 (zomg blobbing! oh wait, this wasn't EVE), and I just got my ass handed to me. After it'd been used and abused in nefarious ways. It wasn't pretty.

[Malakili]

Decided to pick up Birth of America as a last minute steam sale purchase.  Hell for $1.50 what have I got to lose, thats less than the gas it would take to drive me to the store to buy a different game.  I'll post my reactions after I get to play it later.

[Ingmar]

I am not super enthused by BoA so far personally. It seems way too simple in some ways, while being overly neckbeardy in others. It doesn't really strike a good balance with that stuff.

[Murgos]

If you're unbelievably hardcore, try War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition. It's so detailed, it's practically unplayable.

I don't think that I would attempt to play a full game of WitP but HERE is a link to a game in progress that some, unbelievably hardcore, person (Grey Hunter is his handle) is doing of refighting the war day by day.  He started on December 7th 2009 and he plans to go on until the end, five or so years from now.  Yes, he's only to early July 1942 and things are pretty dark.

As an added bonus, the history nerds go to pretty good lengths to add correlation and color to the action with the real world histories of ships, units and etc...

[naum]

A great writeup on "storytelling in Games" and Dominions 3, IMV, the greatest turn based strategy computer game ever made (at least to date).

Enter Dominions 3, the 2006 turn-based strategy game from Illwinter that cast players as “pretenders”: mages or supernatural beings aspiring to divinity. I have argued that games can tell a story in one of two ways: through good writing and scripted experiences, or through the actual in-game mechanics. And Dominions is one of my favourite games because of how well it uses those two methods to tell a story about a dark, high-magic fantasy world.

Start with writing. In Dominions, a game with neither cutscenes nor dialogue, this means backstory, flavour text, and world/faction design. Instead of elves and orcs, Dominions features dozens of nations based on Earth history and mythology. There are Western Europeans: Germanic, Anglo-Celtic, Iberian, Roman, Greek. There are nations based on Norse gods and Norse giants. There are nations based on the Aztecs, on China, on Japan. And then there are nations of bird-winged people, of bipedal lizards, of merfolk. There are even nations based on Lovecraft. And because you can choose to play the game in one of three eras of the world (Early, Middle or Late), you can see how the fate of each nation has unfolded across the centuries.

For example, when we first meet the Roman-inspired nation of Ermor in the Early Age, it is confident and proud. Confident in its new faith, brought by a prophet in white; confident in its pre-Marian legions of triarii and principes and equites; confident in its powerful mages. By the Middle Age, things have gone horribly wrong. The new faith has been replaced by a Death Cult, introduced to stop a necromantic ritual gone awry, and now skeletons march side by side with the legionaries. The nation of Pythium secedes from Ermor, and the Pythian generals place their trust in Hydras (themselves inherited from the vanquished nation of Sauromatia) rather than the undead. And by the Late Age, echoing the later Roman Empire, Pythium now has to cope with mystery cults (one of which, serpent-worship, has made the Hydras sacred) and the Pythian legions have birfurcated into Limitanei and Comitatenses. Still, it’s clear the Pythians were the lucky ones – for Ermor has turned into an Ashen Empire of the undead.

Take another example: the nations based off fantastic versions of the British Isles. In the Early Age, the land of Tir na n’Og is ruled by the Tuatha, beings with lifespans of hundreds of years, powerful air and nature magic, and the ability to disguise themselves with magic glamours. Come the Middle Age, and a handful of Tuatha remain in the nation of Eriu, ruling over mostly human subjects. Eclipsing the Tuatha is the Celtic/Arthurian nation of Man, led by witches of Avalon and whose armies comprise the familiar longbowmen, sword- and spear- wielding infantry, and unicorn-riding knights of Avalon. And by the Late Age, the Tuatha have disappeared entirely, as have the witches of Avalon. Now Man is ruled by the magisters, scholars trained as judges or researchers or sorcerers, and the Old Ways are nearly gone.

[dusematic]

A great writeup on "storytelling in Games" and Dominions 3, IMV, the greatest turn based strategy computer game ever made (at least to date).

Enter Dominions 3, the 2006 turn-based strategy game from Illwinter that cast players as “pretenders”: mages or supernatural beings aspiring to divinity. I have argued that games can tell a story in one of two ways: through good writing and scripted experiences, or through the actual in-game mechanics. And Dominions is one of my favourite games because of how well it uses those two methods to tell a story about a dark, high-magic fantasy world.

Start with writing. In Dominions, a game with neither cutscenes nor dialogue, this means backstory, flavour text, and world/faction design. Instead of elves and orcs, Dominions features dozens of nations based on Earth history and mythology. There are Western Europeans: Germanic, Anglo-Celtic, Iberian, Roman, Greek. There are nations based on Norse gods and Norse giants. There are nations based on the Aztecs, on China, on Japan. And then there are nations of bird-winged people, of bipedal lizards, of merfolk. There are even nations based on Lovecraft. And because you can choose to play the game in one of three eras of the world (Early, Middle or Late), you can see how the fate of each nation has unfolded across the centuries.

For example, when we first meet the Roman-inspired nation of Ermor in the Early Age, it is confident and proud. Confident in its new faith, brought by a prophet in white; confident in its pre-Marian legions of triarii and principes and equites; confident in its powerful mages. By the Middle Age, things have gone horribly wrong. The new faith has been replaced by a Death Cult, introduced to stop a necromantic ritual gone awry, and now skeletons march side by side with the legionaries. The nation of Pythium secedes from Ermor, and the Pythian generals place their trust in Hydras (themselves inherited from the vanquished nation of Sauromatia) rather than the undead. And by the Late Age, echoing the later Roman Empire, Pythium now has to cope with mystery cults (one of which, serpent-worship, has made the Hydras sacred) and the Pythian legions have birfurcated into Limitanei and Comitatenses. Still, it’s clear the Pythians were the lucky ones – for Ermor has turned into an Ashen Empire of the undead.

Take another example: the nations based off fantastic versions of the British Isles. In the Early Age, the land of Tir na n’Og is ruled by the Tuatha, beings with lifespans of hundreds of years, powerful air and nature magic, and the ability to disguise themselves with magic glamours. Come the Middle Age, and a handful of Tuatha remain in the nation of Eriu, ruling over mostly human subjects. Eclipsing the Tuatha is the Celtic/Arthurian nation of Man, led by witches of Avalon and whose armies comprise the familiar longbowmen, sword- and spear- wielding infantry, and unicorn-riding knights of Avalon. And by the Late Age, the Tuatha have disappeared entirely, as have the witches of Avalon. Now Man is ruled by the magisters, scholars trained as judges or researchers or sorcerers, and the Old Ways are nearly gone.

I Googled this game intent on buying it.  But it's $55.00 and looks like this:  



  Um, wow.  Cocky bunch, Shrapnel Games.

Edit:  To be fair, they are running a "monthly special" that knocks $5 off. 

[Sky]

The assy look has always turned me off, too. I think if you can't do a good 3D engine, just stick with sprites. I don't know why sprites were dropped so quickly for ugly 3D.

[Ingmar]

Yeah I check every once in a while to see if they have a sane price on their 4 year old homemade game yet. Nope!

[dusematic]

The assy look has always turned me off, too. I think if you can't do a good 3D engine, just stick with sprites. I don't know why sprites were dropped so quickly for ugly 3D.

I agree.  



Besides, in the age of Steam, how can I rationalize paying $50 for a 5 year old game?

[naum]

Yeah I check every once in a while to see if they have a sane price on their 4 year old homemade game yet. Nope!

The graphics suck. The UI is decent, substandard by modern aesthetics, but it gets the job done. But it's a turn based game where the graphics really are not that essential — the battle scenes are decent enough and you can mouse over / pause / fast forward and get a breakdown of the action — you don't make any "moves" once in battle, it's all about formation, setup, and scripted orders.

As far as the price goes, I can't think of any game that's delivered as many hours played other than a MMORPG with a monthly fee. And that includes any in the Civ series.  But a big part of the problem, besides the amateurish graphics, it takes a little doing before you get hooked — when starting out, you don't know what you're doing, and it's just confusing. To play effectively, you need a plan from even before game begins, when you choose a race/nation, "roll up" your God and select dominion settings to fit.

And while you can compare it to glitzy presentation of other games, all those other strategy games are like "checkers" compared to Dominions 3, including Civ, EU, etc.….

As that essay describes, playing the game is like unraveling an epic fantasy novel. Heroes grow stronger, prophets rise and die, the world is altered, supercombatants are spawned, etc.… Multiplayer is even more intense, though it's a different beast entirely than your 20 minute SC3 matches — games take weeks to play (though, certainly not "continuous").

[Modern Angel]

Dom3 is AMAZING and worth every penny. I do think the price should come down a bit, absolutely, but even then it's worth it. It really is.

[WayAbvPar]

That sounds really fun, but yeah...price needs to come down about 75% before I even consider it. Steam sale plstia.

[Ingmar]

The last time I trusted one of these threads I ended up with "X3: Single Player Eve" so... yeah. I'll pay $10 for something like this, or maybe $20 if the buzz is like, Mount and Blade/Minecraft level universal love. And I haven't even tried Minecraft yet...

[WayAbvPar]

  that is EXACTLY what I thought of when I read this. I have that one too.

[Modern Angel]

That's completely fair. There is a demo. The real problem is that the game isn't accessible. It's got a learning curve and the fact that you only set up orders for your armies and let the computer run the actual battle is very weird at first. But it's deep, atmospheric, evocative...

[PalmTrees]

Yeah, the limited level of scripting/orders and computer run battles just made the game completely unfun for me. Played a couple campaigns and then it got put away.

[Furiously]

No one has mentioned Darkwind, then again it's more mmo'ish.

[FatuousTwat]

The last time I trusted one of these threads I ended up with "X3: Single Player Eve" so... yeah.

That sounds like the worst game in existence. The only thing good about Eve is the interaction with other players, all the NPC stuff blows.

[Modern Angel]

No one has mentioned Darkwind, then again it's more mmo'ish.

This reminds me that I should head back for my yearly fix after the holidays.

[raydeen]

Found this today after this thread got me interested in trying some TBS games.

Projekt W
http://www.saschawillems.de/?page_id=114

Looks pretty amazing for a freeware game. Haven't tried it yet due to being at work. It was from a list of freeware TBS games.

http://www.freewaregenius.com/2008/05/15/an-overview-of-free-turn-based-strategy-and-war-games/