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Title: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: UnsGub on October 30, 2019, 05:00:24 PM
Enjoyed the first two episodes.  Glad they have removed cell phones from the world.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Hawkbit on October 30, 2019, 10:41:58 PM
I can't imagine any media property that should exist less than a continued story in this universe.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tale on October 30, 2019, 11:42:18 PM
I've been planning to resubscribe to the Rupert Murdoch rip-off cable/streaming service that has the rights to this in Australia, based on rave Watchmen reviews from a professional TV critic friend. Waiting till His Dark Materials also starts there in a couple of days.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on October 31, 2019, 01:18:53 AM
I can't imagine any media property that should exist less than a continued story in this universe.

It's pretty interesting so far. It has next to nothing to do with Watchmen, but on its own its good (at least through 2 episodes).


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on October 31, 2019, 09:38:35 AM
It's confusing as fuck to me. I mean, the story they are trying to tell is somewhat straightforward big conspiracy mystery thing. The confusing part is what the fuck this has to do with Watchmen and why it's considered a sequel? Ozymandias is barely in it, and just about everything else that is Watchmen is so sublimated into the background that it could be anything else. On it's own, it's not bad and decent enough that I will continue to watch it until it pisses me off. As a completely unnecessary sequel to a series that needed absolutely no embellishment whatsoever, it's a confusing fucking mess.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: UnsGub on October 31, 2019, 02:31:04 PM
Adrian Veidt, Silk Spectre and Dr Manhattan are all in it.  It has the history of the graphic novel, raining squids was a nice touch.

It has only asked questions so far.  How it answers them will be interesting.

Veidt at least knows he is stuck in the past, with his family of cloned selves, and still is planning another event.  They are also not afraid to take on current topics with racism and police.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on October 31, 2019, 02:33:01 PM
The racism/cop story is the part that feels the most out of place here, and I'm hoping that's largely because they haven't given us enough connective bits to be able to figure out WTF is going on.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: jgsugden on October 31, 2019, 03:55:24 PM
I won't be watching this for quite some time yet, but the folks involved in making this have a history of hiding things in plain sight, of playing with expectations and using sleight of hand in interesting ways.  It sometimes doesn't work - it sometimes does.  I just get the feeling we'll think differently about the series after the first season ends than we do after watching a couple episodes.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on October 31, 2019, 08:27:29 PM
I don't really care all that much about its connection or nonconnection to Watchmen. It is telling its own story and just using that world.  For what its worth Alan Sepinwall has seen the fist six episodes and says the 2nd is the worst of the bunch (and I thought it was pretty good), so let's wait and see where they go with it.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Father mike on November 01, 2019, 08:38:04 AM

It has only asked questions so far.  How it answers them will be interesting.


It's written by Damon Lindelof, so let me know how that works out for you.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Threash on November 01, 2019, 09:15:47 AM
The Leftovers complete redeemed him for Lost, shrug.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: eldaec on November 01, 2019, 12:37:03 PM
This is written by Lindelhof isn't it?

So not so much a history of hiding in plain sight as just making shit up as he goes along while pretending it was a grand plan?

Waiting till the whole season is done for someone here to tell me if it works.

Edit : nvm. Teach me to write a post, then actually send it later without checking what was written in between.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on November 01, 2019, 08:26:23 PM
Shitting on Lindelhof's notorious history of coming up with great mysteries that he never bothers solving and acts pretentious as hell about afterwards when people start slamming him is worth continually repeating.

And I say this as someone who LIKED the Lost ending. But fuck him in the earhole for Prometheus.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Threash on November 02, 2019, 08:37:56 AM
And then after that he did The Leftovers in which the very first scene of the very first episode is all the worlds top scientists going "we have no idea wtf happened, there is no explanation, just enjoy the ride". People can learn from their mistakes.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on November 03, 2019, 10:46:11 PM
Well they certainly went deep on the original story for this third episode that’s for sure.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: MahrinSkel on November 04, 2019, 01:14:41 AM
I thought I saw the Brick Joke coming a mile away...then it surprised me when it landed.

--Dave


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on November 04, 2019, 09:26:27 PM
This show was made instantly better by the addition of Jean Smart, and I don't mean because she's one of the original characters. She was just fun to watch at this part. The rest of the cast has been decent except for Jeremy Irons who seems to be given nothing to do but chew scenery in some vague way that's probably connected to the overarching plot for this season if I've guessed what's he's trying to do correctly.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on November 05, 2019, 06:00:04 PM
Man, no one picked up on my "deep" double entendre.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on November 05, 2019, 10:34:16 PM
I'm still processing the whole Dr. Manhatten in a Suitcase thing.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on November 11, 2019, 02:14:50 AM
Man, this show is bonkers.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: eldaec on November 11, 2019, 07:00:23 AM
Watched the first couple against my better judgement, and I know the comic was utterly convinced of its own importance but jesus christ.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Rasix on November 11, 2019, 04:55:13 PM
Man, this show is bonkers.  :awesome_for_real:

Yah. That last one was just fucking weird.

A+


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on November 11, 2019, 08:17:33 PM
It's reveling in weirdness for weirdness sake, most notably with the Veidt storyline, which is either painfully obvious or completely irrelevant. The show is ten times better when either King or Smart are talking, squared if they are talking to each other.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on November 11, 2019, 09:43:59 PM
I thought Lady Trieu was a great new character.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on November 18, 2019, 01:03:04 AM
Squid pro quo.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on November 18, 2019, 09:06:13 AM
This show vacillates between good writing and cringeworthy badness from minute to minute. I do like Looking Glass as a character and an actor.



Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: naum on November 18, 2019, 09:22:58 AM
A very "This is Us" vibe episode in this weird Lindelof post-Watchmen alternate history universe.

Mock me, but my favorite scene in this one was...


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: naum on November 18, 2019, 11:51:22 AM
Oh, and this Alan Moore interview (originally done in Brazil a few years ago, but just published recently in English on his website (https://alanmooreworld.blogspot.com/2019/11/moore-on-jerusalem-eternalism-anarchy.html)), some juicy morsels:
Quote
What was the impact of popular heroes comic books in our culture? Why are people fascinated by alternative realities?

I think the impact of superheroes on popular culture is both tremendously embarrassing and not a little worrying. While these characters were originally perfectly suited to stimulating the imaginations of their twelve or thirteen year-old audience, today’s franchised übermenschen, aimed at a supposedly adult audience, seem to be serving some kind of different function, and fulfilling different needs. Primarily, mass-market superhero movies seem to be abetting an audience who do not wish to relinquish their grip on (a) their relatively reassuring childhoods, or (b) the relatively reassuring 20th century. The continuing popularity of these movies to me suggests some kind of deliberate, self-imposed state of emotional arrest, combined with an numbing condition of cultural stasis that can be witnessed in comics, movies, popular music and, indeed, right across the cultural spectrum. The superheroes themselves – largely written and drawn by creators who have never stood up for their own rights against the companies that employ them, much less the rights of a Jack Kirby or Jerry Siegel or Joe Schuster – would seem to be largely employed as cowardice compensators, perhaps a bit like the handgun on the nightstand. I would also remark that save for a smattering of non-white characters (and non-white creators) these books and these iconic characters are still very much white supremacist dreams of the master race. In fact, I think that a good argument can be made for D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation as the first American superhero movie, and the point of origin for all those capes and masks.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on November 18, 2019, 02:09:24 PM
Goddamn, Alan Moore went full batshit asshole. I kind of knew this already but goddamn. Still, at least he's not racist asshole crazy like Frank Miller.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on November 24, 2019, 10:44:54 PM
Holy shit. Amazing episode.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on November 24, 2019, 11:51:34 PM
Yeah, that was visually amazing. I'm still finding myself getting taken out of the story a little bit trying to connect it to Watchmen, but it has kept me watching.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on November 24, 2019, 11:56:04 PM
Really? They just had a whole episode about the backstory of the original Costumed Adventurer that featured a bunch of the Minutemen and satirical take down of Snyder's version.  This episode was an entire examination of The Watchmen as a thing. 


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on November 25, 2019, 11:11:29 AM
Yes the reveal that Hooded Justice was who he was kept taking me out of the story, because I kept thinking that it just didn't sound right. I guess we'll call that a deconstructionist deconstruction of a deconstructionist story? It's a turducken of layers within layers of piss takes and "subverting expectations."

I'm not saying I didn't like it - I did. Like I said, it should win some Emmy's on its own just for the visuals, as they were clearly meant as an homage to Gibbons' panel construction as well as Will Eisner's work on the Spirit.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on December 01, 2019, 09:47:57 PM
Did NOT see that one coming.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tale on December 02, 2019, 08:21:39 AM
 :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on December 03, 2019, 12:22:13 AM
Want more? Have to read the supplemental stuff HBO is putting online to get this joke/reference but:



Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on December 03, 2019, 11:29:03 AM
Did NOT see that one coming.  :awesome_for_real:

I saw it about halfway through the episode and I'm still ambivalent about whether I like it or not. Clearly the next episode will explain it a little more and I'm finding that the one weakness of the show is that it kept so much of the mystery at the first part of the season that the last part has to be almost all some kind of exposition. I'm still along for the ride though, so that's positive.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: MisterNoisy on December 11, 2019, 11:44:23 PM
I'm hosting a weekly viewing party for this now, so it's at least kind of good.  That last ep was really fun to watch people watch.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on December 13, 2019, 12:44:21 PM
I've been reading the "Before Watchmen" series of comics for shits and giggles lately (this was a bunch of prequel series that focused on one Watchmen character before the story, except for the Minutemen series which focused on the group itself but mostly on the original Nite Owl). While these series are decently written and drawn, they are so completely unnecessary. They add nothing to the characters, except the Minutemen one and it's still rather unnecessary. They also will give you no insight on the Watchmen TV series.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Hoax on December 15, 2019, 10:39:26 AM
Last ep airs today, I held back until Friday (2 days ago), I'm already caught up.

This is good. Everyone should try it.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tale on December 15, 2019, 06:41:26 PM
I've got two episodes to go and I'm thinking of nominating it as my favourite show of the year (workplace has a Slack thread where we do this).


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on December 15, 2019, 11:42:40 PM
This show was good.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on December 16, 2019, 08:35:59 PM
Lindelof just cannot help himself, he just cannot write an ending that is not a "fuck you" ending.

All-in-all, a good series, a good season. Apparently HBO hasn't confirmed a second season, and Lindeloff has said he either wouldn't be involved if there was or if he was involved, he'd need some time to think of a new story. His idea was to make each season a self-contained story like Watchmen itself was, so more like a Fargo/True Detective type of show in the Watchmen universe. If they don't continue these characters, I'm not sure what the point would be since I really do want to know what happens after (see said "fuck you ending"). I do like how he tied it together and made clear all the connective tissue with the original series.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tebonas on December 17, 2019, 08:27:13 AM
I don't see the "Fuck you" in the ending, it was well-telegraphed from the beginning of the series, but it threw enough curve-balls to not make the predictable parts boring. Really liked this one from beginning to end. But I will be nervous if the press a second season out of this, the chance they would fuck that up and invalidate this ending is enormous.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Threash on December 17, 2019, 11:05:11 AM
Yeah, I don't see that as a fuck you ending at all.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Samwise on December 17, 2019, 11:29:48 AM
It'd be really hard to do another "episode" that was this good and had this many connections to the source material unless they went back in time a bit to focus on someone like, say, Nite Owl.  They got some really good mileage out of Doc and Ozy but I don't think they can do another story with either of those characters, at least not one that wouldn't cheapen the story they just told.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Rasix on December 17, 2019, 05:46:23 PM
This was good.

It we get another season, cool. If not, this was good enough as is. The ending was fine. It works as a stand alone or a lean in towards more in the universe. It was better than I thought was going to be and ended in a way that doesn't completely fuck the anything to come.

Haem, you've got some weird takes on this stuff.

And.. just to say it: Regina King's voice is kind of annoying. At least Cal's voice helped smooth things out.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on December 17, 2019, 09:43:45 PM
My biggest complaint was


There's great story seeds to be made off either answer to the question but not answering the question tells me that Lindeloff didn't think either of them were worth exploring because he is a lazy fuck. Other than that, I loved it, especially the



Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on December 18, 2019, 12:15:59 AM
It was pretty obvious to me what the result would be, but even without that, ending it that way is more cinematic than having it just happen either way and then, what, she shrugs?


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: satael on December 18, 2019, 02:15:57 AM
My biggest complaint was





Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HaemishM on December 18, 2019, 11:28:18 PM
It was pretty obvious to me what the result would be, but even without that, ending it that way is more cinematic than having it just happen either way and then, what, she shrugs?

And then second season. No matter what choice they made, there are a TON of interesting story lines that could be explored. Leaving it like they did felt very "Sopranos ending" to me.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on December 19, 2019, 12:27:16 AM
He's not doing a second season.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Khaldun on December 21, 2019, 08:39:51 PM
Stunned at how much I like this.

Didn't expect to at all.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Samwise on December 27, 2019, 02:18:51 PM
He's not doing a second season.

That's good news IMO, because I don't think the second season could not be disappointing.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Cyrrex on February 06, 2020, 07:25:14 AM
No second season?  Bummer.

I just finished this two days ago (finally).  I thought it started out super weak, but I don't know if that is simply because I know next to nothing about these characters or if it was due to the way they set up the episodes.  In hindsight, it all made more sense.  And at the end, I really dug it, the last 3 episodes in particular.  I have a feeling this is one that improves on a second viewing, at least the first half of the season.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Khaldun on February 06, 2020, 07:34:23 AM
The one odd dangling plot thread is Lube Man. Which is maybe a first for Lindelof, to leave only one odd dangling plot thread, so well done there.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Abagadro on February 06, 2020, 01:20:05 PM
It is not dangling if you read the supplemental material (the Peteypedia stuff) that HBO was putting out online week to week as the final entry identifies him definitively (it was also pretty heavily implied in the show itself as well).


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Khaldun on February 06, 2020, 02:58:38 PM
Sure, I got who it was, it just seemed like it had some meanings or implications that needed further exploration.


Title: Re: Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: jgsugden on May 25, 2020, 01:26:26 PM
Finally got around to watching this series.  Interesting, but there were elements that just seemed like a waste.  The entire placement of Adrian throughout the series was just unnecessary and convoluted for no real impact on the story.  I get the idea that it has a penance of sorts - but it fell flat.

I bet we do get another season and that it focuses on Night Owl's legacy.  They dropped the seeds for a Night Owl continuation throughout the series with the reference to him being in jail, the Owl Glider at the end, etc...  And, I bet they already have a plan for it that they're keeping quiet.  They may even put it under production under a different guise and then reveal it as a surprise closer to the release (ala Cloverfield).