f13.net

All Points Bulletin (APB) is an original MMOG for PC and 360 being developed in partnership with Webzen of Korea. APB is a city based community game where players choose between playing the criminals or those out to catch the criminals; carry out or thwart opposed crimes and build up areas of the city you control, all with unprecedented levels of character and vehicle customisation.

What does his arm say?

Wasn't this originally from the GTA folks, or someone who inspired GTA? Why does this sound so familiar? Why, I ask you!

ok I have an important question - Can you go Downtown for money?

But the question is, can I be a dirty cop who forces underage girls to make out while he masturbates? 

Er, in what other media did this happen ?  Enquiring minds need to know.

Bad Lieutenant.  Harvey Keitel is suitably creepy.

Then things got impressive. There's a vector graphics and primitive shapes tool similar to what the Forza franchise is famous for. Tattoos can be made and applied -- and they look incredibly real when laid down on the skin. You can also put those same decals on any piece of clothing or any car you own, spray paint them on a wall, trade them with friends or sell them. The entire Forza livery tool is in APB (though we're not sure how many layers you can stack) in an expanded form and it's just a subsection of the game. "One thing you want to do in your clan is draft a good artist," says Jones.

Just how powerful is this character creation tool? Jones went on to show a "clan" he created specifically for GDC. He called them the Geek Squad. It consisted of Peter Molyneux with an "I heart Fable" shirt, Warren Specter, Richard Garriot and Miyamoto with a Mario t-shirt. Also, Miyamoto wasn't wearing any pants and had mushroom boxers. All of them were instantly recognizable and remarkable.

The idea of players creating the world goes a step further with the music. RealTime Worlds is working with Last.FM on an intriguing way to add tunes to the game. The radio in the car will play songs from your hard drive. If a friend gets in and they also have the same MP3, the game will play that song for them. If not, it will search for a song by the same artist. If that still isn't found, it will pull one from your collection that is closest in style.

There is no leveling in APB. Jones called grinding a broken gameplay concept and went on to explain why using World of Warcraft as an example of repetitive, thoughtless gaming. "It's called a grind for a reason and we have to find a way around there," says Jones as he pointed to Counterstrike as an example of an online game with infinite replayability and no repetition. The strength comes from human interaction and having a unique experience every time.

The difference between a new player and an experienced one.The hook to APB then is not leveling your character up and increasing stats on a spreadsheet. Personalization drives characters, Jones believes, and so as you get good and progress in the game you look cooler. A starting player will have nothing more than jeans and a t-shirt and stand out as a chump. An experienced player, well let's just say the difference is completely obvious from the start.

To begin, you choose to play as either a member of law enforcement or a gang. Everything here is player driven -- you won't be running around taking quests and reading extended text stories from NPCs. To keep things from falling into anarchy, a few basic rules are in place. The enforcement side has law and order built into the rules. The gangs have to act like organized crime where permission to commit a crime must be obtained prior to the act. If you're playing as a gang, your job is to commit crimes and steal things. If you're playing as the enforcement, it's your job to stop them.

We were shown a video to demonstrate how the gameplay works. The gang, having decided upon a target of an armored car began moving into position. Without having committed a crime yet, the enforcement is oblivious. As soon as the gang commits the crime, an APB goes out.

Here is where APB is so clever. The servers automatically match a similarly skilled set of enforcement agents to deliver the APB to in a dynamic form of matchmaking. You'll never have a clue who you'll get matched up with. It's all done automatically based on stats.

After the APB was sent out to a clan of enforcement agents, we watched a chase scene unfold. Cop cars converged on the van. One gang member drove while two others hung out of the sides firing guns at the officers. A cop car tried to block off an alley at one point…another time one took a jump over a barrier to get closer to the criminals. The scene ended with the gang making it to the drop off point at the same time as the cops and a shootout began.

Since it is all driven by experience and skill, APB won't always match teams up with even numbers. We saw another example of four new criminals (in t-shirts and jeans) trying to steal a television. As soon as they smashed a car through the store window to get at it, an APB went out to a single enforcement agent. The new players feel like they have a chance since they have numbers while the experienced player can show his skills. This mission ended with the cop killing all four criminals with a rocket launcher.

This guy was stealing a TV while a car chase from another crime sped by.The idea is that some players will build up massive reputations in the game. Perhaps one player will be known as a criminal impossible to catch, and his appearance will tell the tale in a heartbeat. The trick, though, is that like Counterstrike each mission is unique. With real people on the other side, you can't ever be sure about the outcome.

This mission ended with the cop killing all four criminals with a rocket launcher.

This guy was stealing a TV while a car chase from another crime sped by.

Besides having your character 'look cooler' as they 'get experience' I wonder what the goal is.  Also is there an advantage to 'looking cool'?  You'd think it would be better to lay low and keep the jean and T-shirt look to not draw attention.

That's what I call law enforcement:


 :awesome_for_real:

Here is where APB is so clever. The servers automatically match a similarly skilled set of enforcement agents to deliver the APB to in a dynamic form of matchmaking. You'll never have a clue who you'll get matched up with. It's all done automatically based on stats.

That's what I call law enforcement:


 :awesome_for_real:

(http://www.pcemulators.co.uk/mamepics/apb.png)

PvP games with hard coded sides and no equalizing mechanism don't work very well.  This is not a new lesson.

Persistent Counterstrike makes me hot. Do want now.

Although, if someone could see fit to make a clone of this concept with a Mechwarrior Mercenaries flavor, my inner sf dork would appreciate it.

Several of us would.

Persistent ANYSYSTEM_01 would be nice, I think. It's the draw to an MMO; a persistent world I can give a shit about. (Or at least try)

I like the way they were talking about the game, but as with any MMOG, beta or shut it.

As opposed to what? No matter the approach people are always going to bitch about PvP games, since at the end of day one side is given to find their anus sore.

What immediately comes to mind is letting players hop servers, all the time, anytime, to anywhere. Look at it another way, and it's Guild Wars or Tabula Rasa where the whole world is instanced.

Other than that, don't code the sides, and just give people a sandbox to cause trouble in. Let players work for the punks or the cops depending on faction standing, and let them switch sides depending on how they play.

What immediately comes to mind is letting players hop servers, all the time, anytime, to anywhere.

Other than that, don't code the sides, and just give people a sandbox to cause trouble in. Let players work for the punks or the cops depending on faction standing, and let them switch sides depending on how they play.

Yes, 'zero faction' or 'sandbox pvp' is what I was thinking of.  That or the FPS mechanism that WoW battlegrounds stole.  Limited number of people to each side, with objectives.  Then, when one side has an overwhelmingly ridiculous population advantage, it doesn't affect the central game play as much.

Ok, so he mentions the "experienced" cop taking out 4 "noob" thugs.  What's going to happen 2 months into the game when the cop: thug ratio is 1:250 and it's 4 'experienced' thugs against the lone cop who bothered to login that day.

People jump over to playing cop characters because that provides them with 250 targets to choose from as opposed to the other side where 250 people have to fight over one.

That's what they said about Horde/ Alliance in WoW and Hib/Mid in DAoC.  Proved to be untrue as a whole without other incentives. The "Pretty" race in WoW got a lot of Horde rerolls, but I have no idea how/ if DAoC ever fixed it.

Well that in itself is not equalizing mechanics -- when players hop to another server because the one they're currently on puts against overwhelming odds, they're mostly looking to be on the winning side i.e. create the very same situation for some other guy, until that one jumps to yet another server in search of upper hand etc.

So how does a cop grind* faction to become a punk if they have change of heart or just want to switch side for a day? Take missions and repeatedly shoot other cops in the back until they get enough 'punk faction'? (if that's at all possible) Just no...  :uhrr:

Much easier imo to just let them have characters for both sides. These could connect to any server indeed whie maintaining personal rating record, for what i care... binding them to single small server doesn't sound like the best idea so hope that's not part of design.

PvP games with hard coded sides and no equalizing mechanism don't work very well.  This is not a new lesson.

Give me an 80's action movie police chief who says things like "You used a bazooka... to kill four thugs... who were stealing a television set... then drove your car up a ramp and onto the back of a drug dealer's semi truck, then killed the driver and drove the truck into a crack house?  DAMMIT RIGGS, YOU'RE A GOOD COP, BUT THE MAYOR IS GONNA HAVE MY ASS FOR THIS!" and I'm fucking sold.

Worked fine in daoc, and I can't think of any other PvP-focused mmogs that ever tried it, what games are you thinking of?

What sly said.

Also, there may be no "killing x mobs for level +1" 'grind' but unless you're able to instantly carry your "rep" and be an 'expert' as soon as you switch factions, there's still a 'grind' associated with fllipping teams.  Just doing away with an XP bar doesn't mean there's no advancement grind cock block.   That will be there in ANY game with advancement/ 'character development' that is done per-character instead of per-account.

Difference being, the game is supposed to match you up against somewhat equal players or groups, so you can reroll and jump right back in without getting crushed.

The positive reaction for this upstanding title bodes well for my own game in development, Date Rape Online.

What sly said.

Also, there may be no "killing x mobs for level +1" 'grind' but unless you're able to instantly carry your "rep" and be an 'expert' as soon as you switch factions, there's still a 'grind' associated with fllipping teams.  Just doing away with an XP bar doesn't mean there's no advancement grind cock block.   That will be there in ANY game with advancement/ 'character development' that is done per-character instead of per-account.

Aren't you getting too old for that shit?

I can't wait to see what the demographics are like on the 'gangsta' side.

I can't wait to see what the demographics are like on the 'gangsta' side.

I will only play if I can customize my character as the type of neon leopard print spandex, leather and spikes wearing gang member that was portrayed in such 80's classics as Double Dragon and Final Fight. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this.

Dave Jones, not the slimy pirate from the movies but the creator of GTA, recently spoke to Develop Mag where he targets APB for a 2009 launch. APB is the highly anticipated street style MMO developed by Realtime Worlds, the developers who recently made action shooter Crackdown for the Xbox 360. Following the recent news that Realtime Worlds has secured $50 million in funding, Jones believes APB can 'significantly' increase the company's earnings.

Jones seems extremely optimistic about APB as he compares it to World of Warcraft, Blizzard's massively popular MMORPG which features over 10 million players, "If we have a big success with APB on the scale of, for example, World of Warcraft, then we could be looking at hundreds of millions of pounds. It just depends what happens after we launched it," said Jones.

How can this NOT be as succesful as WoW, drawing as it does on established successes and years of lore?

Yeah, wtf is that GTA thing, anyone heard about it?

Last month, Realtime Worlds bought back the rights to APB from Korean company Webzen, who were originally scheduled to publish the game. Why the buyback? Eurogamer are reporting that, according to "a credible industry source", it was so they could turn around and sell the game to Rockstar, who could then rebadge it as a GTA MMO. Realtime are keeping quiet on the rumours, saying only that they bought back the rights to their game to "give themselves some options".

Rockstar (possibly) takes notice:

Pounds, heh.

Look at how cute he is, inventing a currency.

According to Ars Technica, this form is a beta sign-up for the game:

http://www.realtimeworlds.com/index.php?id=399&pid=3

I will play it.

The shift key. It's right there.

where/

Approximately 10,000 players per world consisting of 100 player district maps. A hundred customized players driving unique cars, doing crimes, shooting or busting each other is well worth checking out.

From their FAQ:


Best guess is population controlled districts of 50 on 50.

The Unreal engine will not handle more than 100 players per server even if they are just rendered as name tags on boxes. It's the exact same limitation that we are wrestling with and it's interesting to see how they have handled it.

Why would you use the unreal server tech? (i assume you are not referring to the rendering client, just the number of players the server can handle)

Game play footage you say?

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/17693

Didn't see it posted earlier in the thread.

They're designing their game with a technical limitation that won't allow more than 100 players per server?  It seems that's highly unwise even if their design calls for only 100 players per server, since it completely closes off options for later.

Furthermore, if it's a 100 player limit on a server how is it going to work?  If you can only create 100 characters on any particular server, most of them are going to be empty most of the time.  If it's 100 players online at a time, are they going to have some queue bullshit?  If so I can't see that working out particularly well.

Don't get hung up on the 'per server' thing. Server in this case is not the same thing as an MMO server/shard/realm, in MMO terms it's closer to saying '100 people per zone'. How you manage that zone is independent of what the players perceive to be a 'server'. It can be a single zone in a larger world, or it could be unique instance of a map in the same way as an FPS server for example.

How big is the game world? And how many people fit on one server?


Approximately 10,000 players per world consisting of 100 player district maps. A hundred customized players driving unique cars, doing crimes, shooting or busting each other is well worth checking out.

Chaos server?

A bunch of ethugs pretending to be real thugs.  This is like a self-parody. 

A bunch of ethugs pretending to be real thugs.  This is like a self-parody.  

I don't see why it's still being called an MMO. I'm putting it on par with MAG, but with a bit more persistence behind it.

“There really is no overarching story in..."

BANG! Papapapapap. BANG! <sound of gunfire>
 
"Shut the fuck bitch! DIE"

I don't see why it's still being called an MMO.

The obvious question for many of our readers is simple: is APB really an MMO? Yes, and no. It all depends on someone’s definition. In the purely traditional sense, 100 man “districts” are a bit small to call it an MMO (there are 10,000 person cities, which are composed of multiple districts and more akin to a server in a traditional MMO). However, the game features persistent character progression, persistent worlds, guilds, no lobbies and all the other hallmarks. The line continues to blur between online games and MMOs, but this has more than enough of the core hallmarks that it looks and feels like one. That’s good enough for us.

The gameplay itself is match based, but there are no lobbies at all. Instead, players hang out in persistent “districts” and their actions within that common area automatically generate matches on the fly.

Call it whatever you want but having seen the character customization tool in action it is quite revolutionnary

Revolutionary in what sense?  

Serious question.  I'm a customization fan.

Revolutionary in what sense?

Serious question.  I'm a customization fan.

Watch one of the e3 vids for it.  It's pretty impressive.

If the pricing model doesn't turn me off, I'm so making an idealized punk version of myself.

Revolutionary in what sense?  

Serious question.  I'm a customization fan.

Link to customization VID. (http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/insane-apb-character-customization/319854)

That's amazing!  I hope that this is a sign of what we can expect from future games... though I doubt it.  All that customization must be a huge limiter of the number of characters that you can have on screen at one moment. 

Goddammit, the video was ruined by Barnett

Revolutionary in what sense?  

Serious question.  I'm a customization fan.

They should release the character creation tool months ahead of the game's launch as a free download.

There are already character creators like this that you can get for free

I've never ever in my life seen design your own icon and then drop and rotate onto skin or clothing.  Not ever.  

I've seen submit an icon, I've seen choose a preselected icon for a preselected placement.  Drop and rotate?  Color?  Combine?  Never seen that.

Jus sayin

Name a few?

Daz3d is/was one.
Then there are trial versions of Poser and Clone3d along with a million other 3d character modelers, many of which are open source with thriving communities (like Renderosity) wherein you can pretty much buy or borrow every conceivable appliance you can think of.

Then there's crap like Second Life, Sims, etc.  (obviously a different type of implementation though)

I am extremely wary of the last.fm or whatever music integration tool.

Can't wait to hear people driving around to Urinal Tribunal (http://www.last.fm/music/Urinal+Tribunal).

On the other hand, I can't wait to drive around in my car and force people to listen to Urinal Tribunal.

Last.fm streaming will probably be an optional setting. However I'm more interested on how they're going to moderate graphics content, given the freeform graphics editor.

I've only heard that the content you can use is pre-determined. I'm sure people will come up with ridiculous things, but the game will carry an M rating anyway.

weird generalized old-folky paranoia regarding a simple questionnaire

Damn it, I need to stop attempting to fill out beta applications on this computer, because I inevitably fill out a long form, get to the bottom and it says "attach your dxdiag" and then I've wasted me time.

And do they really need to ask all those questions about your computer when you are attaching your DXDIAG? Fuck this.

Probably some sort of idiot test.

Shit, you can even google dxdiag and just submit somebody else's. There are some really good ones out there.

Damn it, I need to stop attempting to fill out beta applications on this computer, because I inevitably fill out a long form, get to the bottom and it says "attach your dxdiag" and then I've wasted me time.

They must be doing something some other tests, as my awnser for "Why do you want to be a beta tester for APB?" would fail with any sort of punctuation. It's a free form text box so their validation was failing on commas, periods and trailing whitespace.

I have punctuation in it. But I had to pad it out with X's to get the 250 letters.

How much will APB cost?

The actual price for the game itself is still under discussion but we’ll keep you up to date. We can confirm that APB will not require a monthly subscription.

Well, it looks like there's answer to a qustion some were asking... "it's just 100 people per server so why should i want to pay monthly fee for it"

Well, it looks like there's answer to a qustion some were asking... "it's just 100 people per server so why should i want to pay monthly fee for it"

and it's "guess what, you don't have to".


(from their faq page (http://www.apb.com/faq/))

Mark Rein’s spent the last few days at Realtime World’s offices in Dundee, Scotland, playing what-Dave-Jones-did-next MMO, APB.

Want to know what it’s like? The Epic VP gave us an exclusive overview of what to expect at GDC Europe today. Hit the link.

VG247: You’ve spent the last few days playing APB?

Mark Rein: Oh, it’s fantastic.

Tell me about it.

It’s hard to describe. It’s everything you’d expect that sort of game to be. If the Rockstar guys ever made an MMO out of the best version of Grand Theft Auto, this would be it.

How shooty is it?

Very shooty. It’s really, really fun to shoot. There’s tons of weapons. That’s part of the whole game, is upgrading weapons all the time, upgrading your vehicles. All the customisation is completely awesome. The missions are a lot of fun. It’s very easy to play. Somebody who’s familiar with shooters will pick it up in seconds.

Its your typical WASD controls. You know, in Gears of War we have the A button? We call it the “anything button”. They have the F button. I nicknamed it the “frigging anything” button. Jumping over crates and climbing fences, climbing ladders and kicking in doors: that’s all with the F key. It’s very, very natural for shooter players.

Were you playing it online or on a LAN?

I think we were connected to a server in Stockholm. I was in there offices [In Dundee - Ed]. And the performance was excellent.

Did you play with the character customisation stuff?

I did, yeah. I kind of made a fool out of myself, putting a big M in the middle of my face. Before I got there, they made me in the game. I got to actually play as me. They put a “powered by Unreal technology” logo on my t-shirt. But then after a few minutes they made me take it off, because they were recording it. They’re going to show the play session here [In the EA press conference - Ed], the thing that I played with Chris Collins from Realtime Worlds. We have this back and forth banter. We played it, they recorded this one main session where they want to show everything all the way through, and then we banter about it afterwards. It was kind of fun.

When you start, you go into a character customisation bit at the beginning?

Yes.

How long is it from there to actually playing the game?

Well, you don’t have to customise a character. They’ll just give you a random one if you want. It’s very easy. What’s really cool is that you can choose a main character and randomise a few things, like skin tone or face. There seem to be a lot of randomise buttons. I created a new character in, like, 15 minutes. It’s very easy. Probably the easiest I’ve ever seen.

The really impressive thing is that they’ve got this awesome stencilling system. They keep memory usage down by, instead of allowing you to just stick textures on - which, of course, would be a huge bottleneck online, as they have to send textures to everybody - they have all these stencils, and they do intersections and cuts of them, so people make really amazing logos out of cutting and pasting stencils and they remember the deltas of how you did it all.

It uses very little memory. It’s very cool. It’s surprisingly easy. I was shocked. It’s the same with the vehicles. You’ll be able to go and put graffiti on walls too.

The game itself is running around and killing people, right? Is it objective-based?

I hate to use GTA, because the comparisons are so obvious, but it’s similar to that. You get missions. You pledge allegiance; you can either be an enforcer, or a criminal, and you pledge allegiances to contacts. If you’re an enforcer, then your contacts are sometimes police, sometimes they’re vigilante characters, and they give you missions. You can actually play the game in single-player if you wanted to, but with all these other real, live players going on around you.

That’s the most impressive thing. We’re driving around, we’re going on a mission, and there’s this big crime scene going on over here. And we’re in the middle of a firefight, but we’re not involved in it. That’s basically the way it works. You can call in back-up, real live players, and the system automatically matches you up against enforcer or criminals in that mission. They’re always real people. They’re never NPCs.

Say you’re an enforcer and it matches you up against a villain, does it then show you where the villain is?

Once they start shooting at you, they start to appear on your compass, but if they haven’t shot at you and they’re being stealthy, they’re sneaking up on you. But it’s really cool. You can call in other groups. The social aspects of it are dead easy. Being able to get into a group or invite people into a group, see what your friends are doing: that stuff works really well.

They actually have a social server, with no missions going on, and that’s where you can do customisation. There’s going to be an auction house in there where you can actually sell items you’ve made or earned throughout the game. They have a pretty cool little social environment. You can watch movies, things like that. Comparable to PlayStation Home, but more of a real game environment than that.

Out of ten, how pumped are you?

Eleven. I’m serious. I might be one of the best games I’ve ever played. And I’m not just saying that because it uses our engine. It is unbelievable. After the first night of playing, all I could think about was playing it again. And I have a log-in now. So I can play.

It all sounds good, but while reading that all I could think about was who the fuck are they going to find to roll good guys?

Are there tasers?

It all sounds good, but while reading that all I could think about was who the fuck are they going to find to roll good guys?

I hope not, broizard.

That’s the most impressive thing. We’re driving around, we’re going on a mission, and there’s this big crime scene going on over here. And we’re in the middle of a firefight, but we’re not involved in it. That’s basically the way it works. You can call in back-up, real live players, and the system automatically matches you up against enforcer or criminals in that mission. They’re always real people. They’re never NPCs.

White people.

FIFY!

I hope not, bro.

This very thread went through it couple pages back.

You get to shoot unlucky punks e-thugs playing virtual thugs in the face. With a rocket launcher. What's not to like.

No, you didn't. You actually ruined the joke.

I'll be playing a punk because I'll be able to have a cooler outfit and cause mischief.

Is the clothing-line contingent on the alignment?  Or are we talking just RP here?
If I went "good" I'd try to make a Solomon Kane type character.

Is the clothing-line contingent on the alignment?  Or are we talking just RP here?

More like a Clockwork Bat Country, imo.

The only way a tricked-out punk would be on a police force is if they were undercover.

'specially if they have creepy synthesizer music for the in-game jukebox

Though it accommodates up to 100 players in an open-world environment, APB won't be a massively multiplayer online game in the traditional sense. It also will apparently not follow the norms of an MMOG when it comes to payment models, either. According to a recent update to Realtime Worlds' Web site, "The price and payment model have not been finalized yet but we can say it won't be the traditional monthly subscription model."

Though no additional details on APB's payment scheme were offered, Realtime Worlds has tapped Redwood City, CA-based Vindicia to manage the game's billing network. According to Vindicia, its CashBox platform lets developers implement a variety of business models, including subscriptions, virtual goods, and virtual currencies, and also serves as a fraud-prevention mechanism.

It all sounds good, but while reading that all I could think about was who the fuck are they going to find to roll good guys?

New Trailer
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/apb/video/6228651/apb-official-trailer-3?hd=1

This is also the first trailer I have seen that contains a chatlog with what appears to be the word douche in it.

I see money hats.

The hairstyles make it look like you can be a cop that would only be found on the set of Mad Men.

I am stoked.

Exactly wtf are we gonna be able to do aside from pimp our own hairdos and jukeboxes?  Does each city essentially have a life of its own or are they just static clones of eachother?

Not server, district.

City = 10k, district = 100.

I assume city's are world servers.

Wow. Want. I did laugh that their "Unprecedented Customization" screen was followed by some guy shooting a car coming off a bridge. You'd think they'd want to show, ya know, some customization if they think it's a big enough deal and all.

I'm pretty sure they've shown off the customization stuff a number of times.  I think I've seen more of it than I have of the gameplay.

I'm pretty sure they've shown off the customization stuff a number of times.  I think I've seen more of it than I have of the gameplay.

You can't gank people.

Rocket launchers don't gank people; people gank people.

(I'm not connected to APB in any way aside from wanting badly to get into the beta, I'm just pulling info from various articles and interviews)

A couple things.

1. You can play solo. If you're a solo criminal and commit a crime, the game will sic what it calculates is a balanced amount of Enforcer weight after you. If you're kind of average that may mean another solo Enforcer, if you're pretty powerful, you may have a small squad sent out to try to gang up on you.

If you're a solo Enforcer you can be alerted to take on solo criminals..or again maybe weak groups if you're the second coming of Dirty Harry.

Also apparently solo Enforcers can stalk criminals they believe are about to do something illegal, and if they witness a crime and call it in the computer bumps their priority in the matchmaking response.

2. You can't fire on people not involved in your mission, but apparently vehicles can interact with each other at all times, so someone creative can probably make use of that. I'm not sure if you can get any real reward for such behaviors but if you just want to cause some chaos, there you go.

3. To most directly answer your question, apparently there will be "Chaos" servers that are just free-for-alls, with no "walls" between players on missions. I'm sure that'll get appropriately crazy/Darwinian.

No, according to info from another forum (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showpost.php?p=1895441&postcount=98) you cannot shoot people not assigned as your current target. Though i don't know how that'd work with the rocket launchers and splash damage.

I wonder how running over in a non-chaos zone works... Because that's maximum grief potential. You can't shoot other players cars, but they can likely run you over and kill you.

Running people over doesn't kill them. Just knocks them down.

New Trailer
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/apb/video/6228651/apb-official-trailer-3?hd=1

This is also the first trailer I have seen that contains a chatlog with what appears to be the word douche in it.

Phire and I are going to make Will Smith and Martin Lawrence. It's funny cause we are extremely white and will probably insist on driving around saying "DAYUM!"

I need someone to reenact Lethal Weapon.

With enough people, pulling a Police Academy might be fun, too.

No motorcycles.

I'm going to play an ordinary citizen, pushed to the edge by a system that doesn't care for the little guy and street punks with no respect for authority. His calls to the police ignored, he was going to stay out of it until he found that the street gangs had addicted his daughter to cough drops and got his son involved in an illegal taking-books-from-the-library-without-a-card racket. Calling on all his training as a Boy Scout leader, he's taking the law into his own hands and will make those criminals pay. With their lives.

Abe Vigoda ruled!

Two words: Cop 'stache.

If there is a decent cop stache implementation you can pretty much guarantee that the forces of Law and Order will never be under-represented. Throw in mirrored shades and the forces of evil and villainy won't know what hit them. :drill:

SABOTAGE!

Sign up for beta you jerks. (http://www.apb.com/beta-application/)

Dagnabit, requires DXTAG.

You're late. Almost 2 months late.

Mabye, but it also starts next week.

Sounded a lot like RIIIIIIIIBBBBBIIIITTTTT to me...

You're not allowed to tell everyone if you got it or not, anyway. But I do like knowing they were sent.

I don't understand.  You can't tell anyone if you DIDN'T get one?  I didn't get one.  What happens to me now?   :ye_gods:

My Character will be T-Pain and my theme song is going to be "Buy you a drank". I'll find a way to Auto Tune my voice and drop mad beats while I lay down the law.

Phire, you can be Akon.

I think a criminal gang of nerds is the way to go.

I guess I'm the only one who thinks it would be cool to make a gang that dresses like they're from an 80s side scrolling beatem up. Maybe that's because I've always wanted to wear neon pink leopard print.

It would have to be a multiracial gang, though.  For some reason gangs in the 80's weren't all about "the blood", or "la raza".  It was a more inclusive time.

You really have to stretch to Cadillacs and Dinosaurs to find anything that would be considered "multiracial."

(http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Revenge-Nerds-movie-02.jpg)

1. The Warriors and Breakin were the 70s. The end result of the 70s no less.

2. He said side-scrolling beat'em ups.

 Has the whole world gone insane???

You really have to stretch to Cadillacs and Dinosaurs to find anything that would be considered "multiracial."

Music editor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPGBILvxAWU

It does make me wonder if they've got weak project leadership (...)

It's still on, and they're apparently inviting people here and there. Not sure how they decide who gets in or not, but it must be a shitty process, since a lot of 4channers are in there.

I am happy to answer the questions that I can (or am permitted to), so feel free to ask.

I suspect a red name will be hitting me soon - so until you see it feel free to be skeptical.

Well, congrats to you, Evil Red John!  Everyone is having news lately.  New jobs and new babies for everyone!  (not me!)

That's not a new job, I just didn't redname him until it was relevant.

Well I know why it did for me. Because I just checked my beta application and somehow had to reregister and fill it all out again. :(

Oops.  I suppose it's my fault it's in the wrong place.  But it was almost three years ago.  I was young and rebellious!  (and didn't notice)

"Each game world or server has a limit of 10,000 players concurrently online. These players will be playing on district maps which each hold up to 100 players for action districts or 250 players for social districts. Each world has 100’s of these district maps so although a single action district has a 100 player limit, there is no limit to the number of other players you will encounter. "

Aren't what you call APB "servers" more like instances anyway? from their faq:


It'd be kinda like demand Guild Wars not to be discussed in MMO forum, they run on similar model.

You'd need to exclude ST:O and even City of Heroes then as well.

Thats fine too.

It's complicated.

I intend to limit my involvement so you don't get an influx of annoying posters looking to get answers that they can't get elsewhere

And I blame Signe, does she still eat brains?

Companies need to make a point of using their best testers for the gameplay demos.

I totally agree that video felt awkward.

That was a good video but it really reminded me how much I hate watching video of people who aren't good at the game they are playing.

So, because the driver was bad, you're writing off the driving?

The music stuff is cool, but I'd put in resources to make the driving game better rather than waste them on a side "cool" feature.

Thats fine too.

In other news:  Realtime would be foolish not to do a Cyberpunk (not S-Run) xpac. for this game.  It's a ridiculously obvious content direction to go and wouldnt be hard to implement given the foundation they've got in place.  I just KNOW they're thinking about it.  EJ??  What say you?

Why exactly would they do a 180 and go into the future with this game? Nothing hints to anything like that.

But don't take my word for it, try the beta (when we let more in) - leave feedback - and buy it if you like it. If you don't, no hard feelings on my part. ;)

Ooooo.

After WAR, I don't know if we'll be getting that.

Beta is a good time to be hyper critical. Saying something is fine for now, even if its completely fucked up, because it's beta is letting the dev get off easy. If you keep the pressure on, they might actually make some changes before they ship instead of seeing a player base content with current implementation.

I'd have thought APB would fit into that category, but then there is the question of overpowering districts with "organized" numbers - making it unfun for others.

It's going to happen in the live game, anyway, so why not try and see its effects in beta already, giving them a chance to think and find something to influence these scenarios before release?

This beta is done this week anyways.  Safe to assume they'll be ramping things up fairly soon, including testing of the chaos server.  (u have no pvp protection on chaos)

I'm just leaving this here...

http://apb-evolved.com/news/123-apb-payment-model-faq

EDIT: Yeah, yeah, I know there's a sub alternative. I just think it's funny. Also... two currencies? One to play, one to customize? Overcomplicated, IMO.

* All Realtime Worlds services, including Gametime packages are purchased with RTW Points – real money values shown above are RTW Points-value equivalents.

Hey, neat. They're trying to modernize AOL's payment model for the original Neverwinter Nights.

Pay by hour will totally work.

EDIT: Yeah, yeah, I know there's a sub alternative. I just think it's funny. Also... two currencies? One to play, one to customize? Overcomplicated, IMO.

The intent of the nominal Manufacturing charge is to prevent high volume of low quality items from crowding the Marketplace listings.

Like the entrance barriers have ever prevented 90% of stuff be crap, in any creative field.

This isnt a game where people will buy crap.  And over time, that 25c manuf. fee adds up.

This isnt a game where people will buy crap.

How are we defining "crap" btw?  We talkin crap as everything in the game?  Or we talkin crap that just looks/sounds like Packaged Ass.

THAT's when things become interesting.

Most of my game time will be spent happily playing dress the dolly, so the cheapest available plan works for me.

I'd have expected a GTA-like large roaming zoneless gameworld. Which APB is not.

To do this, you have to shoot people in the face... and then break out the Wacom.

You can also use RTW Points to purchase items from other players on the Marketplace or sell your own items on the Marketplace to gain additional RTW Points.

Can I create items and sell them to other players?

Yes. However, selling your creations to other players incurs a small RTW Points fee. This process is called Manufacturing a customized item.

The following Manufacturing costs will be present at release:

Item Type (MFG cost in RTW points)

All vehicles (10)

Clothing - Major (head, torso, legs) (5)

Clothing - Minor (accessories, underwear, and footwear) (2)

Theme / Song (2)

Symbol (2)

Remember, there are NEVER any charges for all personal customization.

Why charge such low RTW Points value Manufacturing costs at all?

We believe the quality of the experience would suffer if the Marketplace were inundated with junk. The intent of the nominal Manufacturing charge is to prevent high volume of low quality items from crowding the Marketplace listings.

Additionally, we are investigating systems that would recognize reputable sellers and save on their Manufacturing costs.

Why is the amount I receive for a successful Marketplace sale different than the final auction price?

Similar to other auctions, there is commission on successful transactions.

However, there are no listing fees nor is there any charge for unsuccessful Marketplace auctions.

What about items I’ve already equipped or worn?

When you equip a weapon or wear a customized shirt, for example, that item becomes “worn”.

“Worn” items cannot be traded to other players without first paying a Refurbishment cost.

This Refurbishment cost is charged in the same currency as the original item.

For example, if you wear a customized shirt that you purchased from the Marketplace – the Refurbishment fee would be in RTW Points as that shirt would require a Manufacturing fee before it could be traded or sold.

However, if you purchased an N-Tec Assault Rifle from a Contact, equipped it, and then decided to trade it to another player – the Refurbishment fee would be in in-game currency because the item was originally purchased in the same fashion.

Simple rule: if the item was originally a customized item – such as clothing or a vehicle – Refurbishment would cost RTW Points; otherwise, if it was purchased from a Contact – Refurbishment would cost in-game currency.

The following Refurbishment costs will be present at release:

Item Type (REF cost in RTW points)

All vehicles (10)

Clothing - Major (head, torso, legs) (5)

Clothing - Minor (accessories, underwear, and footwear) (2)

Theme / Song (2)

Symbol (2)

Of course with no Aussie servers it's pretty much a non starter anyway, high pings are bad.

Since there's absolutely no client side prediction or anything, you have to lead your shots, and that without having a clue about latency, since you can't just TAB into the scoreboard and see your ping.

oops.  http://gamers.eurogamer.net/giveaways.php?id=87022

There's thousands of beta keys on Eurogamer now.  I don't think it matters where you're from.

That is kind of weird, isn't it?  Maybe people just believe it's for Europe only and, as we already know, every single person in Europe has at least three of these already.  I don't know.  I haven't even downloaded it yet.  I wonder if you can get into the beta forums once you make your account.  I'm afraid to look.

I'm in.

Are you allowed to say that?

Yes.

stuff

I'm confident that you can't actually say anything about the beta - what's in it, good or bad, etc. No matter how inconsequential it may seem.

I'm in the US beta.

I'm wondering if I can switch, because being in Seattle, the UK servers  :nda:

There's a US beta?

There's a US beta?

Hell yeah there is, and it's much better than that EU beta!

:(

Hell yeah there is, and it's much better than that EU beta!

The algae is greener on the other side of the pond.  (You Yanks have that oil slick after all.)  I'll stick with my European brothers and sisters.  Solidarity!

I posted a link from Eurogamer.  Where the fuck did you guys think you were going to end up?

Brain dead in a gutter, next to the corpse of a malnourished Dutch whore?

Did some dirty Euro highjack Lantyssa's account, or did I fall into some weird form of Sarchasm?

I posted a link from Eurogamer.  Where the fuck did you guys think you were going to end up? (http://jadedsouls.net/forum/images/smilies/crybaby.gif)

I thought Euro was just slang for gay.

So you'd have a completely different opinion about the Euro going down in Greece then?

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I'm neither skilled nor hip enough for this game.  :sad:

(Not a comment about APB, but about me.)

Do we have a forum for beta discussion? I have some things to say about my experiences.

Yah, I'm pretty sure we've broken the NDA a few times in here.

Next person who says shenanigans is getting pistol whipped.

I see the ea and apb site have a digital download with a "guarenteed beta" and 3 day head start + unique cars + extra emote. But do any retailers with actual boxes have a similar deal going?

Pretty easy to find beta leaks anyway and they seem universally negative. Which surprises me not at all when their design document seems to have been "GTA online? moneyhats!". Pretty hard to enforce an NDA when you have lots of people involved and lots of them don't care enough about the game that getting banned counts as a risk.

EvilJohn could probably green-light a private forum for the NDA folks.

Don't preorder it.

I'm totally preordering it.

APB Microtransaction Charges Changed (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/54959/APB-Microtransaction-Charges-Changed)

Whole fallacy of this was the fact they never thought to let the players earn RTW points and transfer them to RL cash if they wanted.  Instead, they charge you an xtra fee even just to make something... sure, you make some in-game coin from the sale, but upon /unsub it all disappears along with the RL money you paid to make the stuff.   :awesome_for_real:

Please do, so we can rejoice from your QQing. --edit: vvv And yours.

Fallacy?  That's good sense.  DDO, Eve, and Puzzle Pirates don't let you convert currency to RL memory and do just fine.

Please do, so we can rejoice from your QQing. --edit: vvv And yours.

And Ghambit, the second players can somehow get RL money out of APB is the day the entire game changes for the worse gets shut down for tax evasion, laundering, and/or illegal gambling. When a game pays out, it changes the nature of the game.

U mad?

 :why_so_serious:

crimecraft... sank without trace.

And anyone who pre-orders without knowing anything about the game is a hopeless optimist given the terrible MMO launches we've seen. Especially since the last game of this type was crimecraft and it sank without trace.

If you haven't learned by now not to pre-order anything, there really is no help for you.

I'm beginning to realize half my pleasure in following the MMO market is imagining the panic when the company realizes the game isn't working out but they've got to launch it anyway. And not bugs, they'll always be there and they can be fixed without changing the game. More the things that someone should have been flagged as an issue when the game was still a design brief on paper with a bunch of people poking at it.

It looks like APB is going to be entertaining :)

Hurr durr durr hurr, I what? :uhrr:

Incidentally this seems to be why Valve and Blizzard have been putting out consistently good games.  Both seem willing to go back to the drawing board on mechanics even relatively late in the game (Half Life 2) or scrap something all together if its hopeless (Warcraft Adventures).

Interestingly the thread that got referenced actually has a APB developer contributing to it, so I assume they're not working too hard enforcing it.

Not sure what his spiel is. He only gets upset when screenshots are posted.

The difference is, they can afford it.

Interestingly the thread that got referenced actually has a APB developer contributing to it, so I assume they're not working too hard enforcing it.

If you're pre-ordering this without having seen or read anything beyond the marketing materials, you deserve what you get. Good-day sirs!

If you're pre-ordering this without having seen or read anything beyond the marketing materials, you deserve what you get. Good-day sirs!

And that is true of any game...

When it comes to payment, you want players to be thinking as little as possible about it, rather than thinking about if they got enough value from 50 hours to put some more cash in.

Which means this is a good thing, right? Supporting quality over mindless dickery? The fall of the almighty dollar! Utopia! Healthy bacon!

I saw that too.

I can see the decision making process that goes, "This will be GTA Online - the business model will build itself!" but it is flawed because actually collecting money is critical to seeing the game continue to live. It also influences design decisions.

I don't disagree with some of their pricing options - pay for hours rather than a month's unlimited subscription if you want - but I think they should have put the model they preferred out there as the default (which would be a monthly payment, not 50 hours with the box) and then get the player to opt out if they choose to. When it comes to payment, you want players to be thinking as little as possible about it, rather than thinking about if they got enough value from 50 hours to put some more cash in.

* Purchase a retail version of APB – either in-store or online.
$49.99 US – £34.99 UK – €49.99 EU (Suggested Retail Pricing)

* APB includes 50 hours of Gametime and unlimited free access to the Social Districts where all of the game's customization takes place

* After the 50 hours of Gametime are consumed, choose either:

* Gametime 20 hours for $6.99 US – £5.59 UK – €6.29 EU – for those who expect to play infrequently. (Gametime Hours never expire)

* Unlimited Gametime 30 days for $9.99 US – £7.99 UK – €8.99 EU – for those who expect to play frequently. (With discounts for 90 day and 180 day selections)

* All Realtime Worlds services, including Gametime packages are purchased with RTW Points – real money values shown above are RTW Points-value equivalents.

* No commitments – you’re only charged when you select additional Gametime to purchase, no automatic payments are required.

* Earn RTW Points by selling your customized creations or rare item rewards on the Marketplace, and use these RTW Points to purchase services such as Gametime packages!

If using that icon is bad form, why do we have it?

Thing is, he did say right in that article that the game is not designed for people to sit there and play 12 hour sessions, its oriented to be played like other titles not in the MMO sphere.

Reads to me like they waited to form the payment model until they knew what the game play was to be like, who they wanted to target and how much people typically play games of this nature per month (market research).

Lets be real here, 50 hours in a month is a good chunk of play sessions spread out, i would almost dare to say that most here even in traditional MMO's do not put that much time in, the other large factor is those hours only go towards time in action zones, its is completely irrelevant to the time you put in the social areas.

Thing is, he did say right in that article that the game is not designed for people to sit there and play 12 hour sessions, its oriented to be played like other titles not in the MMO sphere.

Other titles are free.

That's incorrect, your just not the one paying. I am sure many players do indeed think they are free though.

It's PvP only. PvP-centric titles aren't for casual players. And its main competitors only charge the box cost to start (and keep) playing.

I know, you keep saying this, I just don't agree.

Mostly: PvP-centric titles aren't for casual players.

This casual gamer politely disagrees with you.

Hello, my name is EJ Moreland and I have been involved in the development of APB for the last three years as the Lead Designer. I'd like to take a moment to talk about APB and the choices we've made.
 advertisement

What is APB?

For those who haven't heard of it, APB is a persistent - online - action game that focuses on player creativity and player-to-player conflict. Players participate in fast-paced third-person combat across a sprawling urban city and have a comprehensive set of customization editors at their finger tips to create their own unique designs for imagery, clothing, vehicles, and music.

Ultimately, we believe players will show off their prowess at the action game or their creativity with the customization - or both - to become a celebrity within the community.

What's so different about APB?

Well, for starters, we're an action game, not an RPG, and though we do have progression, the focus of combat is your ability to put the cross-hairs on your opponent, work within small-group tactics, and know your surroundings. Add diverse urban environments with a hundred players where the combat moves between alleys, main streets, and even in frantic car chases across the city and we believe APB isn't your typical online game.

Another key difference is that we are purely a player-versus-player game and all your teammates and opponents are living, breathing human beings. To accomplish this, we've created a matchmaking system that lives in the background and does its work while you're playing rather than making you wait in lobbies to find ideal opponents.

Lastly, APB is about players expressing their creativity and tastes. Starting with your avatar, you customize physical details with a myriad of choices, including body size, hair, scars, muscularity, ethnicity, facial structure, and even tattoos, which can be created by you in the Symbol Designer.

However, we don't stop with physical appearance. You can also use the same imagery created in the Symbol Designer to create clothing designs with hundreds of clothing choices at your disposal - shape, texture, coloring of various aspects, and image design/placement.

You can do the same for several types of player-owned vehicles including paint schemes, additional physical and audio components, and the same powerful image design and placement choices.

There are even ways to express your creativity and tastes with audio. The Music Studio allows you to create music that can be used as taunts called Death Themes, which play for your opponent when you kill or arrest them. Players can even create longer compositions that can be played from your car or various jukeboxes in the Social areas.

Don't want to make your own music to listen to? We have many licensed music tracks as well as the ability for your to bring your own MP3 library into the game - and play it from your car stereo for others to hear if they have the same track in their library, otherwise our music matching will use last.fm technology to find a comparable track for their listening pleasure.

"Create. Conflict." is not just a catchy tag-line... it is what makes APB something quite different.

Check your expectations at the door

We're an open-world, urban action game where Criminals fight Enforcers - it's seems easy to have expectations such as " online" or "Cops and Robbers online", right?

Not exactly. We certainly share some similarities with both expectations above but we recommend coming into APB with an open mind - it shares as much with experiences like Counter-strike as it does with any open world crime game.

All Points Bulletin is something that we feel is completely different than what's out there online or offline - and at its core it's about you... your tastes, your creations, your skill, and your stories.

See you in San Paro.

I use "casual gamer" in the sense of "non-competitive / play for fun" rather than "plays for two hours a week." I feel "raison de jouer" is a more useful metric in quantifying the style of a gamer than time they invest in gaming.

I play games for around 20 hours a week and have been known to stay up until 7AM doing so. However, I have a relatively low tolerance for frustration and difficulty, so I classify myself as a casual gamer. Conversely, I know people who play FPS very competitively for just a few hours a week and don't mind being headshot over and over and over again. I classify them as hardcore gamers.

I'm gonna side with Bloodworth here. I think we need to redefine the term 'casual', because according to Stormwaltz, I'm an anomaly playing BF:BC2 for an 20 minutes to an hour every other day. Sure, its taken me a bit of time not to die constantly, but it didn't require serious catassing to do so. No more than CoD MW or W@W.

Mostly though, I'm not sure me and Unsub are in any real disagreement, other than He feels that a sub for this game type isn't worth it, I don't. Everything else is not really relevant, and neither of us know if we are right.

So how're Global Agenda's numbers doing?