Title: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Wolf on April 26, 2007, 03:50:24 AM Golliath ON-LINE (http://sc.gosugamers.net/news.php?id=6151)
Yeah, I know it's been comming for a while, but that's something almost solid :P Edit by Trippy: took off question mark, fixed spelling Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Ironwood on April 26, 2007, 04:01:36 AM Hmmm.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: MrHat on April 26, 2007, 04:18:35 AM Or, more appropriately:
Mmmm. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Roac on April 26, 2007, 05:35:18 AM I can't believe it's taken them this long to come to a sequel. But if the rumor holds up; yey. :thumbs_up:
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Sky on April 26, 2007, 07:23:56 AM I don't know why I clicked on this thread.
Postcount + Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: MrHat on April 26, 2007, 07:31:15 AM I bet the new race announcement is Dranaei.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Ironwood on April 26, 2007, 07:32:08 AM Shaman Vs Zerg.
FIGHT. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Wolf on April 26, 2007, 07:42:19 AM Do you know what I find refreshing? The distinct lack of mention of any sort of heroes. They mention a new race and new units... but no heroes. It'd be so good if it didn't have any. They're irritating :)
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: tazelbain on April 26, 2007, 07:46:00 AM I'd like heroes. But they should be promoted from ordinary units.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Trippy on April 26, 2007, 07:52:57 AM Do you know what I find refreshing? The distinct lack of mention of any sort of heroes. They mention a new race and new units... but no heroes. It'd be so good if it didn't have any. They're irritating :) I don't mind heroes -- it's creeping that I hate.Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Wolf on April 26, 2007, 07:56:28 AM That's what I meant Trippy - Heroes in the sense of Warcraft 3 and how they're different from heroes in, say, Dawn of War :)
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: NiX on April 26, 2007, 08:44:12 AM I hate RPG shit being thrown into an RTS. I just wish they wouldn't do it. Hopefully they don't fuck this up if it is true.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Yegolev on April 26, 2007, 09:42:11 AM There will be so, so many broken faces when Blizzard announces Diablo III instead.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: schild on April 26, 2007, 09:44:59 AM I, FOR ONE, WOULD PREFER DIABLO 3.
THERE ARE AT LEAST 3-4 DECENT RTS TITLES RELEASED EVERY YEAR. NO ONE HAS GOTTEN DIABLO LIKE. Caps just don't convey the excitement that would cause. Seas would rise, blood woud boil. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Sky on April 26, 2007, 09:49:41 AM SCHILD WANT DIABLO LIKE
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: schild on April 26, 2007, 09:50:11 AM YARYARYYARYARYARAYRYAARYARYARYAYR
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Strazos on April 26, 2007, 09:51:37 AM yar yar hump hump for D3?
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: NiX on April 26, 2007, 10:13:35 AM As much as I'll admit Blizz would rape if they announced Diablo 3, why? Like you said, Schild, no one has come close to it. Why bother? They can re-own the RTS market if they release SC2. For another decade at that.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: schild on April 26, 2007, 10:24:29 AM Starcraft probably still sells more than Diablo 2.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Nonentity on April 26, 2007, 10:36:18 AM Interesting.
But to be honest, I'm with schild on this one. I'd rather have a new Diablo. Because in all honesty, I will play a little bit of Starcraft 2 and enjoy it, and then after a few months, I'll just play custom maps exclusively. Can you imagine what the DotA for Starcraft 2 would be like? Ho ho ho. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: schild on April 26, 2007, 10:38:31 AM By the way, My Diablo statement comes on the trails that they're probably 75-80% done with Starcraft 2. They've been in development on it for... well, a looooooooooong time.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: bhodi on April 26, 2007, 10:50:05 AM where the hell did they pull another race from?
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: NiX on April 26, 2007, 11:12:03 AM The Starcraft Ghost fiasco is probably why they'd pick SC2 over Diablo 3. The amount of people that killed the poor server that hosted the Starcraft 2.com website way back when they first announced ghost is reason enough.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Murgos on April 26, 2007, 12:04:14 PM Either way they are printing money hats. It's almost certainly SC2 though because didn't the majority of the Diablo team go over to Flagship to make Hellgate?
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: schild on April 26, 2007, 12:06:50 PM Well, Blizzard North was completely dissolved.
But that's not why, once again, the goddamn game (SC2) has been in development since 2004. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: NiX on April 26, 2007, 02:45:04 PM Regardless of when they started, they made a decision 3 years ago to start SC2 over Diablo 3. Blizzard knows full well that when they start something it could very well take 5 years to finish just cause of their policy on shipping a relatively polished product.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Samwise on April 26, 2007, 06:07:46 PM where the hell did they pull another race from? There was a side story in Brood War about a third race created by the Xel'Naga that combined traits of the Protoss and the Zerg. That sounds like the safe money. Another possibility would be the Xel'Naga themselves; maybe some of them were able to escape being eaten by the Zerg and they've been hiding out somewhere trying to come up with a way to undo the damage. (edit) I almost forgot the most important part: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: eldaec on April 26, 2007, 11:23:20 PM where the hell did they pull another race from? 1) Walk into GW store. 2) Throw rock. 3) Copy whatever you hit. Sorry, too easy. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Trippy on April 26, 2007, 11:31:38 PM where the hell did they pull another race from? 1) Walk into GW store. 2) Throw rock. 3) Copy whatever you hit. Sorry, too easy. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Ragnoros on April 27, 2007, 08:27:19 AM YAY! HGL is close enough to D3 for me so this is just gravy. Heres hoping it's fun tho. Supreme Commander really let me down, and while CC3 was fun it's replay value -read: strategic options- was low. Also don't get me started on the whole heres the same game from 5 years ago only shiny that was AoE3.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Strazos on April 27, 2007, 09:24:00 AM Actually, I think AoE3 added/changed a lot of the mechanics of the game.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Sky on April 27, 2007, 09:48:03 AM I'm considering AoE3, the first two weren't bad (for rts which I dislike in general), but I like the injuns and paying $80 to play a game in a genre I don't like is insane.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Calantus on April 27, 2007, 09:54:56 AM Also don't get me started on the whole heres the same game from 5 years ago only shiny that was AoE3. You just got me interested in AoE3. I'd take AoK:TC++ over AoM2 thankyou very much. :P Now I gotta go check it out. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Triforcer on April 27, 2007, 01:45:38 PM Is there any chance SC2 will be as good as SC1? I believe that when you get balance that fantastically right over the long term (where the factions have nonidentical base abilities) it is mostly luck. Lightning can't strike twice- even a small advantage by one faction will be strategized to hell and the game will become trivial.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Yegolev on April 27, 2007, 02:43:38 PM Is there any chance SC2 will be as good as SC1? Negative. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Samwise on April 27, 2007, 04:55:53 PM Is there any chance SC2 will be as good as SC1? I believe that when you get balance that fantastically right over the long term (where the factions have nonidentical base abilities) it is mostly luck. Lightning can't strike twice- even a small advantage by one faction will be strategized to hell and the game will become trivial. Blizzard was really good about releasing patches regularly to keep the game balance good. Every now and then a really unbalanced strategy would surface, or it would become clear that a given unit was nearly useless, and it'd get a small nerf or buff as appropriate. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Trippy on April 27, 2007, 05:58:41 PM Is there any chance SC2 will be as good as SC1? I believe that when you get balance that fantastically right over the long term (where the factions have nonidentical base abilities) it is mostly luck. Lightning can't strike twice- even a small advantage by one faction will be strategized to hell and the game will become trivial. Blizzard was really good about releasing patches regularly to keep the game balance good. Every now and then a really unbalanced strategy would surface, or it would become clear that a given unit was nearly useless, and it'd get a small nerf or buff as appropriate.Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Nonentity on April 28, 2007, 08:11:48 PM Alert!
http://www.diablo3.com/cmps_index.php?page=game-coming Basically, take this with a grain of salt, but Crecente contacted Blizzard about a new Starcraft, and this is the response they got: Quote We do intend to announce a new product at the Worldwide Invitational next month in Korea, and we appreciate the enthusiasm and interest in getting an advance look at what that will be, but players will have to wait until May 19th to find out more. Also, we have a very strong connection with the characters and settings of StarCraft, and we do plan to revisit that universe at some point in the future, but we don't have anything new to announce in that regard at present. Hm. Diablo 3? Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: schild on April 28, 2007, 08:31:40 PM There's a fair chance I'd turn this into a Diablo 3 fansite if it turned out to be that.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Nonentity on April 28, 2007, 08:36:44 PM There's a fair chance I'd turn this into a Diablo 3 fansite if it turned out to be that. I'll start gathering the animated GIFs of the rotating skulls, explosions, and Diablo sprites. (http://www.thenonentity.com/skull.gif) Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Triforcer on April 28, 2007, 09:59:32 PM I didn't picture Schild as a Diablo type gamer, for some reason. It seems too...popular and grindy.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: schild on April 28, 2007, 10:09:18 PM Loot, you son of a bitch, loot.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: NiX on April 28, 2007, 10:53:14 PM I thought we all knew that Schild was a loot whore and that Diablo 2 was his lover. Thrice times.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Wolf on May 06, 2007, 05:01:04 AM Quote StarCraft MMO blasts into orbit Blizzard's new sci-fi MMO is set to rock the world later this month, CVG has learned The long-rumoured new instalment of Blizzard's massive StarCraft series is set to be unveiled later this month - and it's another massively-multiplayer online game in the style of World of Warcraft, CVG can reveal. Well placed US sources have revealed to us that the StarCraft MMO will be unveiled at an upcoming Blizzard event on May 19 in South Korea - the epicentre of the sci-fi RTS series' rabid fandom. The unveiling of the new instalment has previously been rumoured for the South Korea event, though we now know that the title is in fact an online spin-off and not a new RTS game as previously assumed. Of course this is massive news for both Vivendi and the MMO world; Blizzard's other online offering World of Warcraft has topped 6 million subscribers and is arguably the biggest game around today. The question is, is there room for both World of Warcraft and a StarCraft MMO? The later will have to be a very different type of online game to convince gamers to subscribe to both of Blizzard's pair. We will of course let you know as soon as soon as Blizzard officially confirms the game on May 19. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=163207 I guess we can move the topic now :P Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Trippy on May 06, 2007, 05:32:57 AM Double dup.
Edit for linky: http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=9875.msg297870#msg297870 Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Triforcer on May 06, 2007, 08:09:08 AM Any chance at all this is an MMOFPS? Please?
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Morfiend on May 06, 2007, 02:06:26 PM Warcraft....
in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: NiX on May 06, 2007, 03:05:41 PM Warcraft.... I know people have said that many times before, but I laughed. Taking bets on a release date and the MMO market going nuts.. AGAIN!in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Triforcer on May 06, 2007, 03:54:24 PM a_dark_templar_00 says "You Humans have ruined your own lands, you'll not ruin mine!"
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Riggswolfe on May 07, 2007, 06:24:56 AM I'd actually be tempted to play universe of Starcraft or whatever they call it. Especially if they make it a three way battle in some way, and remove the end game cockblocks like hours of raiding.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Paelos on May 07, 2007, 08:16:17 AM If it is actually Starcraft MMOG, they had better make it a hell of a lot different than WoW. It would be monumentally stupid to cannibalize your multi-million player game by releasing something similar in, what would be considered by many gamers, a more popular setting.
I will be hoping for a retooling of Planetscape in the Starcraft setting. This would get me playing both games for sure. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Trippy on May 13, 2007, 03:06:16 PM Blizzard is doing a countdown on their Web site now. "Day 1" is currently up:
www.blizzard.com No teasers or hints about what it might be yet. Edit: currently Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Shrike on May 13, 2007, 03:53:46 PM I could give a shit about Star Craft. But draenei + Sin War = gimme.
Guess we'll know for sure in a another week... /jaded Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: raydeen on May 13, 2007, 05:01:18 PM Blizzard is doing a countdown on their Web site now. "Day 1" is current up: www.blizzard.com No teasers or hints about what it might be yet. It's like an advent calendar for raving drooling fanbois. The only question is, who will be robot baby Jesus? Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: MrHat on May 13, 2007, 06:14:54 PM I hope they announce:
1. Diablo Online 2. Starcraft 2 And be responsible for hundreds of deaths. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Fabricated on May 13, 2007, 07:22:31 PM Watch it be Ghost.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: schild on May 13, 2007, 07:24:29 PM I hope it ends up on the Wii.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Fabricated on May 13, 2007, 07:29:18 PM I hope it ends up on the Wii. Yeah, and I bet you'll have to shake the Wiimote to attack like you do in every other game made for the thing.Why do people like the Wii again? Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Azazel on May 13, 2007, 08:14:08 PM They enjoy the taste of Schild's salty tears.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: schild on May 13, 2007, 08:28:32 PM I hope it ends up on the Wii. Yeah, and I bet you'll have to shake the Wiimote to attack like you do in every other game made for the thing.Why do people like the Wii again? It's innovative? It's changing the face of gaming? They can afford it? Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Azazel on May 13, 2007, 11:37:47 PM So anyway, Starcraft. How confirmable is the MMO-ness at this stage?
We have enough Wii threads. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Wolf on May 13, 2007, 11:39:09 PM Not at all. Unless Schild has inside super sikrit infoz.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Velorath on May 14, 2007, 01:12:19 AM So would nobody actually like to see Blizzard create a new IP? I mean the last new IP they released IIRC was Starcraft in '98 and even that was just kind of an offshoot of Warcraft.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Wolf on May 14, 2007, 01:23:56 AM I want Starcraft. I don't care about a new IP. I just want sweet, sweet starcraft :-D
edit: http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/8431/star1py6.jpg - this is supposedly from the korean site of blizzard. No idea if it's fake. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: eldaec on May 14, 2007, 02:31:58 AM So would nobody actually like to see Blizzard create a new IP? I mean the last new IP they released IIRC was Starcraft in '98 and even that was just kind of an offshoot of Warcraft. New IP isn't exactly Blizzard's 'thing'. - You've got generic demonic fanatsy (diablo) - Outright Warhammer fantasy ripoff. - Outright Warhammer 40k ripoff. Why would you want people who are quite good at making games, but clearly lack imagination, to waste time making up another shoddy backstory universe? Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: stray on May 14, 2007, 03:48:16 AM Diablo's pretty original. Plenty of post-Diablo games have turned that setting into something generic maybe, but I'm having a hard time thinking of things in the pre-Diablo era that were like that.
Starcraft (the setting, not the game) is not nearly the ripoff of 40k that WC is of Warhammer Fantasy. There aren't any Orks or Eldar, and there's nothing like the Zerg and Protoss in Warhammer. Not to say they weren't inspired by WH though. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Trippy on May 14, 2007, 04:12:28 AM Diablo's pretty original. Plenty of post-Diablo games have turned that setting into something generic maybe, but I'm having a hard time thinking of things in the pre-Diablo era that were like that. Zerg = TyranidsStarcraft (the setting, not the game) is not nearly the ripoff of 40k that WC is of Warhammer Fantasy. There aren't any Orks or Eldar, and there's nothing like the Zerg and Protoss in Warhammer. Not to say they weren't inspired by WH though. Protoss = Eldar (ancient technologically advanced race) Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Murgos on May 14, 2007, 04:18:40 AM Diablo's pretty original. Plenty of post-Diablo games have turned that setting into something generic maybe, but I'm having a hard time thinking of things in the pre-Diablo era that were like that. You are kidding right? Diablo 1 had no story at all. Town, dungeon, kill. That was the sum total of it's world. Diablo II went a little further but not by weaving a coherent story line. It's just went with more of the first, more towns, more dungeons, more killing. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Ironwood on May 14, 2007, 04:29:43 AM The original Diablo was awesome only because it came at exactly the right time with some stunning gameplay/graphics/sound and, above all, replayability.
It was the polished Nethack that people had been waiting for. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: stray on May 14, 2007, 04:32:41 AM Storyline isn't all that, I agree (and yeah, D2 is an improvement as well. Not just in storyline, but in classes and powers etc). I'm just talking about the general setting and character types. The whole Catholicism and Archangels meets D&D schtick.
I mean, I'm sure that's been done before, but I can't think of any particular thing that stands out so much that I'd call Diablo's take on it "unoriginal". Setting aside, Diablo is at least original for moving along the ARPG genre. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Azazel on May 14, 2007, 05:13:40 AM Diablo's pretty original. Plenty of post-Diablo games have turned that setting into something generic maybe, but I'm having a hard time thinking of things in the pre-Diablo era that were like that. Starcraft (the setting, not the game) is not nearly the ripoff of 40k that WC is of Warhammer Fantasy. There aren't any Orks or Eldar, and there's nothing like the Zerg and Protoss in Warhammer. Not to say they weren't inspired by WH though. Well, Tyranids (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99120106008&orignav=10) clearly have a lot in common with the Zerg, and have been around in pretty much their current form since their 1.5th ed WD articles (which is a couple years before '95 when the 2nd-Ed Army book came out). Not that much of the 'nids stuff isn't ripped off of Mr.Giger. Protoss have a bit in common with both the Eldar (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99120104010&orignav=10) and also the Tau (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=GOSWEBSPECIAL66&orignav=10). Probably partly inspired by the Eldar, but also the Predator, and the Protoss predate the Tau by years. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: stray on May 14, 2007, 08:04:39 AM Oops. I stand corrected then.
I don't play 40k (just have a passing interest in the video games and a little of the backstory). I probably should have kept my mouth shut. :) Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Ironwood on May 14, 2007, 08:10:14 AM Yeah, but this is one of those arguments that goes waaaay back. It's quite clear that GW nicked most of their stuff too...
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: HaemishM on May 14, 2007, 08:40:31 AM Yeah, but this is one of those arguments that goes waaaay back. It's quite clear that GW nicked most of their stuff too... So most Blizzard fans want new versions of third generation clones of other properties. Gotcha. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Ironwood on May 14, 2007, 08:45:36 AM Turns out, most Blizzard fans just want rings to make that 'ting' noise.
:roll: Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: MrHat on May 14, 2007, 08:50:45 AM Turns out, most Blizzard fans just want rings to make that 'ting' noise. :roll: I hear it in my head when you type it. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Yegolev on May 14, 2007, 09:08:57 AM Turns out, most Blizzard fans just want rings to make that 'ting' noise. :roll: That sound is why I played Titan Quest past the first town. Does that eyeroll mean that you don't have a Pavlovian response to The Ting? Way back when I first played Diablo, Killjoy said very loudly into my ear "That sound means there's a ring, GET IT GET IT!" Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Ironwood on May 14, 2007, 09:16:57 AM SoJ ?
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Yegolev on May 14, 2007, 11:53:19 AM You don't get a TING sound when you dupe items.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Wolf on May 14, 2007, 01:07:23 PM it's super weird with the two threads and how shit is crossing over from one to the other :)
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Morfiend on May 14, 2007, 02:24:17 PM I have quite a few friends from my WoW guild who are interested in Warhammer, but know nothing about it. They say, whats the difference between Warhammer and Warhammer 40k. I tell them:
Warcraft = Warhammer Starcraft = Warhammer 40k Also, if you look up images of Genestealers, they look a lot like Zerglings. Also, the whole idea of the Tyranids is a lot like the Zerg. Also, I always found the Protoss to be much like the Eldar. I left Warhammer before the Tau and the Necrons, but I was recently introduced to them by Dawn of War: Dark Crusade. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Murgos on May 14, 2007, 04:03:39 PM it's super weird with the two threads and how shit is crossing over from one to the other :) What's going to be interesting is to see which thread goes where on the 19th. Will the MMO thread come be merged into this one? Or will this one go over there? Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: schild on May 14, 2007, 04:07:11 PM Whatever they announce is probably going to have a monthly fee, so it'll be a crapshoot. A decision that will be made completely irrationally by myself and the other staff.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Wolf on May 14, 2007, 11:59:29 PM I never had a big thread. LET MY THREAD LIVE!
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Ironwood on May 15, 2007, 01:37:00 AM Heh.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Megrim on May 15, 2007, 03:38:31 AM I never had a big thread. LET MY THREAD LIVE! Haha, it just has to survive until they announce Starcraft 2. At which point i'll be in here crotch-first defending the new game from all the people who will say that Starcraft sucked. And this will go on for like, 50 pages. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: eldaec on May 15, 2007, 03:40:15 AM Any minute now Sky is going to show up with amusing pictures of WH40k characters in comic situations.
THEN YOU'LL BE SORRY. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: murdoc on May 15, 2007, 12:11:23 PM Sky will be happy as long as the game arrives for the PC.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Yegolev on May 15, 2007, 01:31:55 PM He will be happy if it is a PC game instead of a port from a 360 game. I predict he will not be happy.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Teleku on May 17, 2007, 09:07:27 AM So when they say May 19th, are they talking US time or Korean time? Cause the 19th is tommorrow here in Japan, and I dont want to have my hopes dashed when I go to check the internet.
Edit: I should say, I'm actually going to be on a class trip to Tenri over the whole weekened, so I'll need to buy access to an internet cafe or something to be able to see, heh. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: WayAbvPar on May 17, 2007, 09:33:28 AM I can't figure out WTF they are making a major announcement on a weekend. Are we sure it isn't JUNE 19th?
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: JWIV on May 17, 2007, 10:18:02 AM I can't figure out WTF they are making a major announcement on a weekend. Are we sure it isn't JUNE 19th? The Korean government probably requested that they do it so the country didn't shut down. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: WayAbvPar on May 17, 2007, 12:12:21 PM I can't figure out WTF they are making a major announcement on a weekend. Are we sure it isn't JUNE 19th? The Korean government probably requested that they do it so the country didn't shut down. Heh. Probably as good a guess as any. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Nonentity on May 17, 2007, 12:44:20 PM I never had a big thread. LET MY THREAD LIVE! I am so proud of my 11 page thread. No really, I am. LET US DECLARE A TRUCE. merge your thread into mine. any resistance will be met with beatings. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Wolf on May 17, 2007, 01:33:02 PM Your thread is wildly off topic and has sinij. IM NOT AGREEING TO A MERGER. EVER.
Also, they seem to be chainging the pictures sometime around 10ish o'clock in the morning my team. Which is EET. Which is around new york time (whatever that is) +6. So I'm guessing something around early-late afternoon Korean time and weird US time. So I guess 19th, Korean :) Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Trippy on May 17, 2007, 01:58:47 PM You two are funny.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: schild on May 18, 2007, 10:01:29 PM (http://blizzard.com/images/splash/day7.jpg)
There should be an image in this post in a minute or a few. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: squirrel on May 18, 2007, 10:04:13 PM On notice all: korea is about to fucking implode in a collective broadband blackhole of internet cafes. And we shall also be served. My sources are confidential. I can bribed with whisky and access to handguns.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Miasma on May 18, 2007, 10:39:50 PM (http://blizzard.com/images/splash/day7.jpg) I see you up there, MOCKING US!There should be an image in this post in a minute or a few. (http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3307/schv5.jpg) Little worried you chose the starcraft 2 thread instead of the mmo thread too :-(. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Moaner on May 18, 2007, 11:06:30 PM Starcraft 2 officially announced (http://pc.ign.com/articles/788/788627p1.html)!
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Trippy on May 18, 2007, 11:06:38 PM Wolf wins the battle of the Blizzard threads! Congrats!
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: squirrel on May 18, 2007, 11:07:41 PM Someone page/call schild. I worry.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: schild on May 18, 2007, 11:08:44 PM Suck my dick. Suck it long. Suck it hard.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Furiously on May 18, 2007, 11:12:05 PM I'm guessing starcraft online will follow?
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Litigator on May 18, 2007, 11:13:31 PM I hate RPG shit being thrown into an RTS. I just wish they wouldn't do it. Hopefully they don't fuck this up if it is true. Creeping was not RPG shit thrown into an RTS. It was a different kind of resource to gather, which encouraged early skirmishing, it was something to do during the early buildup stage, which is very mechanical and repetitive, and it was a mechanism for opening up different parts of the map at different stages of the game. I don't want to be playing the same RTS I was playing 10 years ago. C&C 3 is nice, but it is an old game in a new package, and that isn't what I want Starcraft 2 to be. That said, I hope they go in an innovative new direction rather than rehashing war3. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Litigator on May 18, 2007, 11:16:08 PM Diablo's pretty original. Plenty of post-Diablo games have turned that setting into something generic maybe, but I'm having a hard time thinking of things in the pre-Diablo era that were like that. Starcraft (the setting, not the game) is not nearly the ripoff of 40k that WC is of Warhammer Fantasy. There aren't any Orks or Eldar, and there's nothing like the Zerg and Protoss in Warhammer. Not to say they weren't inspired by WH though. Well, Tyranids (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99120106008&orignav=10) clearly have a lot in common with the Zerg, and have been around in pretty much their current form since their 1.5th ed WD articles (which is a couple years before '95 when the 2nd-Ed Army book came out). Not that much of the 'nids stuff isn't ripped off of Mr.Giger. Protoss have a bit in common with both the Eldar (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99120104010&orignav=10) and also the Tau (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=GOSWEBSPECIAL66&orignav=10). Probably partly inspired by the Eldar, but also the Predator, and the Protoss predate the Tau by years. Zerg and Protoss are unabashedly variations on Aliens and Predators. I really don't think you need to look further than that. It's a pretty unapologetic ripoff. A lot of the unit dialogue for the Terrans was just movie quotes from "Aliens." As for Warcraft, I don't think anything in fantasy can be called a ripoff of anything else. Tolkien ripped off Northern European folktales and mythology, and everything else rips off Tolkien. Fantasy is so incestuous that nobody can really be credited with inventing much of everything. Warhammer may have decided "let's give the orcs guns" before Warcraft did, but Warcraft is very self-consciously inhabiting a stereotypical fantasy world, and plays it for laughs to some extent, which cuts the absurdity factor of the straightforward, self-serious Everquest style. It really helps when the Dungeon of Preposterous Lore #26 opens up unexpectedly into a scripted set piece from "Raiders of the Lost Ark." Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: schild on May 18, 2007, 11:17:02 PM Oh right. Resource gathering for levels. Right. Oh, and skills. IMO, slowed the game down too much.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Miasma on May 18, 2007, 11:21:55 PM With all the units they are adding it sounds like it is going to be more complicated, and nearly impossible for Blizzard to balance.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: squirrel on May 18, 2007, 11:28:05 PM I seriously don't think this was worth the hype. (http://www.razorfield.com/postimages/sc2.mov)
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Litigator on May 18, 2007, 11:32:39 PM Oh right. Resource gathering for levels. Right. Oh, and skills. IMO, slowed the game down too much. We've had this argument before, where you insist Blizzard never innovates, and then I point out innovations, and you tell me they all suck anyway. 1) I like RTS game mechanisms that punish turtling. 2) I like RTS game mechanisms that give me shit to do while my base is building up. 3) I like that creeps were a different way of opening up part of the map, later in the game without resorting to "it's an island and you need a transport" Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: squirrel on May 18, 2007, 11:34:47 PM Oh right. Resource gathering for levels. Right. Oh, and skills. IMO, slowed the game down too much. We've had this argument before, where you insist Blizzard never innovates, and then I point out innovations, and you tell me they all suck anyway. 1) I like RTS game mechanisms that punish turtling. 2) I like RTS game mechanisms that give me shit to do while my base is building up. 3) I like that creeps were a different way of opening up part of the map, later in the game without resorting to "it's an island and you need a transport" Cool. You like RTS games. Which is great. But honestly this is going to be SC1.25. We all know it. Fuck it, what a waste of time. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May Post by: Nija on May 18, 2007, 11:39:24 PM http://www.gamemeca.com/news/news_view.html?seq=2&ymd=20070519&page=1&point_ck=&search_ym=&search_text= (http://www.gamemeca.com/news/news_view.html?seq=2&ymd=20070519&page=1&point_ck=&search_ym=&search_text=)
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May Post by: Fordel on May 19, 2007, 12:10:03 AM Don't know how long this will last http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUXoekeDIW8 but the opening CGI.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Azazel on May 19, 2007, 12:20:03 AM Zerg and Protoss are unabashedly variations on Aliens and Predators. I really don't think you need to look further than that. It's a pretty unapologetic ripoff. A lot of the unit dialogue for the Terrans was just movie quotes from "Aliens." I did say that the Tyranids were ripped off of Aliens as well. Hence the "Giger" reference. I also mentioned the Predators as well. Which is not to say that Blizz is past taking a sideways glance at GW's ideas when setting up their own ripoffs of the A's and P's. Quote As for Warcraft, I don't think anything in fantasy can be called a ripoff of anything else. Tolkien ripped off Northern European folktales and mythology, and everything else rips off Tolkien. We know this, but GW's somewhat distinctive take on Orcs and Goblins has been copied by many, including Blizzard/Warcraft. The current GW style of Orc and Goblin in turn is a (slight) evolution of Kev Adams' greenskin sculpts as he was the guy who really focussed, clarified and solidified GW's orcs and goblins over many years. Kev went on to continue to sculpt his exact same style of fantasy orcs and goblins many years later when he left GW and went to work for Heartbreaker Hobbies. Just through the years, Kev Adams' style of orc went on to become the GW style, which also became the Warcraft style and one of the main modern fantasy meme's of "Orc". (Right up to the cover art for Dark Messiah of Might & Magic, and so forth.) Even the (High/Blood) Elves owe a fair bit to GW's visualisation, which again is heavily influenced by Moodcock/Elric/Melniboneans. The thing is that GW's visual takes on several of the generic fantasy races have become one of the main fantasy standards for those races. (Note LOTR's very different versions of orcs and goblins, trolls..). We're talking visualisation of the fantasy races here though. Art design rather than names. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: squirrel on May 19, 2007, 12:20:08 AM YouTube version dies at about the 2 min mark or less. It's not the full cinematic.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Mazakiel on May 19, 2007, 12:31:17 AM It's all there, you just have to refresh the page a few times before it'll download all of the movie.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Kitsune on May 19, 2007, 01:04:33 AM How on earth are you getting a protoss/predator vibe? I'm hard-pressed to think of a single parallel between them. One group is a bunch of invisible assholes who perch in high places and shoot people in the head, then laugh. The other is a bunch of psychic mystics. There are much more compelling similarities between the protoss and the eldar than the preds. Which, given that Warcraft and Starcraft are both at least mildly stealing from the Warhammer line, isn't hard to swallow.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Moaner on May 19, 2007, 01:06:07 AM I'm a huge Starcraft fan, but after playing Company of Heroes it's going to be difficult to go back to anything else. Good troop AI spoils you.
The gameplay videos I've seen on youtube are not impressing me much. I think I'm more excited about the continuation of the story and game world than I am the actual game. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Azazel on May 19, 2007, 01:09:58 AM How on earth are you getting a protoss/predator vibe? I'm hard-pressed to think of a single parallel between them. One group is a bunch of invisible assholes who perch in high places and shoot people in the head, then laugh. The other is a bunch of psychic mystics. There are much more compelling similarities between the protoss and the eldar than the preds. Which, given that Warcraft and Starcraft are both at least mildly stealing from the Warhammer line, isn't hard to swallow. It's been some time since I played SC, I kind of remember some kind of triangle/triumvirate design aspect on something that reminded me of the Predator's triangle/triple red-dot sight. Also the stealth bit. Other than that they seemed Eldar-influenced, as I said earlier, but I got a feel of both. Just like the Tyranids and Zerg are both ripped off of Giger's Alien, there's also a lot of nods to the 'Nids when it comes to the other critters in the Zerg forces. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Wolf on May 19, 2007, 01:55:00 AM OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG "Hell, It's about time". Coherent comment comming when I read everything. Best shit to wake up to! :) ps: in your face Nonentity. Muahahahahahahhaha :-D Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Xerapis on May 19, 2007, 01:56:33 AM It was much better live.
I just got back from the WWI. More details to follow. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Megrim on May 19, 2007, 02:08:47 AM Courtesy of Teamliquid.net (http://fumdo.com/sc2/)
Working movie links and stuff. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: eldaec on May 19, 2007, 02:29:08 AM Quote Will there be a console version of StarCraft II? StarCraft II is being developed for the PC. We have no current plans to bring the game to any console platform. Thank heavens. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Wolf on May 19, 2007, 02:36:15 AM Stuff that stuck out for me - No new race? (expansion?) NO HEROES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm a happy camper :)
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Darkgar on May 19, 2007, 02:37:55 AM With CnC3 already out and a couple other good RTS's as well, I was hoping for Diablo III personally. The screenies look like they too the Warcraft III engine and tweaked it. I love Starcraft though, but AoE III has spoiled me. We'll see I guess. If it's nothing more than WCIII it could be boring. The new race seems a bit unnecessary, I hope it ain't Blood Elf Space Pirates (hehe).
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Signe on May 19, 2007, 02:38:30 AM It's not even a Starcraft MMO. It's a stupid Starcraft RTS. Bleh.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Wolf on May 19, 2007, 02:42:46 AM With CnC3 already out and a couple other good RTS's as well, I was hoping for Diablo III personally. There's no new good competitive online strategy. DoW is close, but it's no starcraft. And don't even mention CnC3, it was shit online. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Speedbrusher on May 19, 2007, 02:44:37 AM http://www.starcraft2.com/ is also online, now with movies, screenshots etc.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Venkman on May 19, 2007, 03:49:11 AM This is not the game you're looking for.
Move along. Disappointing. Maybe they'll do something more interesting than just vamping the graphics engine. Or maybe they don't need to if SC has already become an organized sport? Maybe it's enough to have broadcast-quality graphics (presumably) so they can convince more sponsors. In any case, this could have been a mere press release for how uninteresting the whole thing is. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Trippy on May 19, 2007, 03:58:04 AM Disappointing. Maybe they'll do something more interesting than just vamping the graphics engine. Or maybe they don't need to if SC has already become an organized sport? Maybe it's enough to have broadcast-quality graphics (presumably) so they can convince more sponsors. StarCraft had "broadcast-quality" graphics and in fact you might even say it was optimized for TV output.Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Yegolev on May 19, 2007, 04:59:30 AM Quote Will there be a console version of StarCraft II? StarCraft II is being developed for the PC. We have no current plans to bring the game to any console platform. Thank heavens. If there is anything totally awesome about developing for Korea, this is it. Just SC2, I am a little underwhelmed. Not surprised, just underwhelmed. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Yegolev on May 19, 2007, 05:01:20 AM Stuff that stuck out for me - No new race? (expansion?) NO HEROES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm a happy camper :) You are not seriously asking for a fourth race in SC2? You make funny? Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Xerapis on May 19, 2007, 05:03:08 AM Well, as I mentioned elsewhere, even the Koreans were kinda hoping for a Starcraft MMO. Of course, they're HAPPY with SC2, but I can't help but think that they might have been even happier with World of Starcraft.
SC and WOW received equal amounts of applause-noise during the Blizzard game montage movie. With a smaller happy-noise for Diablo. Warcraft got the least amount of excitement. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Yegolev on May 19, 2007, 05:13:09 AM Even Jack Thompson is bummed-out that this is just SC2 instead of WoS. I had a crazy idea that they might do something like AoC with a partly online and partly offline thing, but even that halfass idea was too much.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Wolf on May 19, 2007, 05:54:36 AM Stuff that stuck out for me - No new race? (expansion?) NO HEROES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm a happy camper :) You are not seriously asking for a fourth race in SC2? You make funny? Nah, I'm perfectly happy with three. It was just commonly mentioned as a rumour, plus the fourth race IS in the original game :) In fact there's even a fifth :P Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Venkman on May 19, 2007, 06:05:39 AM Quote from: Trippy StarCraft had "broadcast-quality" graphics and in fact you might even say it was optimized for TV output. I'm thinking HD though, with better Observer-mode tools, for MCs/broadcasters. 3D-based SC2 looks much more appropriate for TV coverage than bitmap-based SC1.I probably shouldn't have used the term "broadcast-quality" though as, technically, to your point it was already there. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: MrHat on May 19, 2007, 06:10:08 AM Blizzard won't make a new gametype until it's already been made 4 times by other people.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Miasma on May 19, 2007, 06:26:06 AM I can't believe Blizzard is using their shitty, much reviled bittorrent system to download the trailers.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: MrHat on May 19, 2007, 06:36:54 AM I know, I was going to download it up to that point.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Xerapis on May 19, 2007, 06:41:24 AM I'm just re-watching the trailer and gameplay demo on TV. The Korean gaming channels are showing it rather...repeatedly.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: sinij on May 19, 2007, 06:44:40 AM Do you know what I find refreshing? The distinct lack of mention of any sort of heroes. They mention a new race and new units... but no heroes. It'd be so good if it didn't have any. They're irritating :) I agree, RPG elements in WC3 is what killed all enjoyment of it for me. Its wasn't about building your base and forming meaningful attack plan, it was mostly about leveling your hero on trash and hope for good drop. Thats not RTS. Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: sinij on May 19, 2007, 06:46:26 AM NO ONE HAS GOTTEN DIABLO LIKE. ORly? What about Titan Quest? Name one good RTS released within a year. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Merusk on May 19, 2007, 06:47:37 AM I don't get the disappointment some of you are feeling. SC2 made the most sense to me, given that everything else HAS a sequel already. Of course there was hype for it, since 1) there wasn't a sequel yet, and 2) it's got a huge fanbase.
Meh, I should give up my incredulity at people's reactions. Someone will always be disappointed or rip an idea. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Typhon on May 19, 2007, 06:53:22 AM Is RTS that popular in the US anymore? I'd say the decision to announce the game in Korean pretty clearly says, "not so much". That combined with the hope that this would be some form of MMO or Diablo 3, thus the disappointment
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Venkman on May 19, 2007, 07:01:59 AM I don't get the disappointment some of you are feeling. SC2 made the most sense to me, given that everything else HAS a sequel already. Of course there was hype for it, since 1) there wasn't a sequel yet, and 2) it's got a huge fanbase. All logical. My only disappointment is the result of the hype buildup not matching the announcement. But that's my own fault. Most of us guessed SC2 from where and how they were announcing this (Korea, inviting much media, respectively). This means it wasn't for us Western players predominantly, but we followed it anyway. I wanted them to announce they were going to take over another genre for a bit, with fun engaging derivative gameplay. But only because I love to see the industry reaction, in a sardonic sorta way :) Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: MrHat on May 19, 2007, 07:18:42 AM I wanted them to announce they were going to take over another genre for a bit, with fun engaging derivative gameplay. But only because I love to see the industry reaction, in a sardonic sorta way :) Which genre haven't they done that needs the Blizzard touch? Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: JWIV on May 19, 2007, 07:40:54 AM Is RTS that popular in the US anymore? I'd say the decision to announce the game in Korean pretty clearly says, "not so much". That combined with the hope that this would be some form of MMO or Diablo 3, thus the disappointment You go to Korea to announce Starcraft because it's a state sport over there. Not because RTS isn't popular in the US. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: MrHat on May 19, 2007, 08:29:15 AM Quote Starcraft2.com: Features: * Fast-paced, hard-hitting, tightly balanced competitive real-time strategy gameplay that recaptures and improves on the magic of the original game * Three completely distinct races: Protoss, Terran, and Zerg * New units and gameplay mechanics further distinguish each race * Groundbreaking single-player "story-mode" campaign * Vibrant new 3D-graphics engine with support for dazzling visual effects and massive unit and army sizes * Full multiplayer support, with new competitive features and matchmaking utilities available through Battle.net * Full map-making and scripting tools to give players incredible freedom in customizing and personalizing their gameplay experience That last one is reason enough to buy for me. Starcraft: DotA Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Miasma on May 19, 2007, 08:31:53 AM After finally downloading the cinematic I must say it was pretty awesome. When the Burning Crusade trailer came out I remember talk of it reusing so much old stuff because a lot of their cinematic artists left. Well, they have definitely addressed whatever shortcomings they had.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Fabricated on May 19, 2007, 09:04:01 AM It looks like Warcraft 3, only instead of a softer tone for colors and pastels, they went for a more bumpmapped sci-fi (duh) look with colder colors. Yeesh. Count me out. This took a decade to make?
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Ironwood on May 19, 2007, 10:19:11 AM Hmmm. Been thinking about this for most of the day.
1 - I will buy it and no doubt enjoy it enormously. However, 2 - Another RTS after the last two bombs ? Further, the hype and countdown was for THIS ? I mean, who cares ? It's not really that, er, announcement that we were all kinda interested in. I guess in the madlands, it might be interesting, but here ? Meh. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: trias_e on May 19, 2007, 11:05:15 AM Quote That said, I hope they go in an innovative new direction rather than rehashing war3. Nope. They'll be rehashing SC1. Which is better than rehashing WC3, but still somewhat disappointing. Looking back, it was kind of obvious that Starcraft would not be made into a MMO at this point. A MMORPG would likely cannibalize WoW and doesn't really make much sense with Starcraft at all. MMOFPS isn't a defined enough genre for them to bother with yet, since they aren't in the business of being particularly risk-takingly creative. And that doubly goes for MMORTS, which would be an entirely new genre. Certainly, the franchise will likely be open to such things in the future. When other people have tried MMOFPSs and MMORTSs, and somewhat succeeded minus the Blizzard polish and execution. Then Blizzard can jump in and dominate those genres as well. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Litigator on May 19, 2007, 11:07:03 AM How on earth are you getting a protoss/predator vibe? I'm hard-pressed to think of a single parallel between them. One group is a bunch of invisible assholes who perch in high places and shoot people in the head, then laugh. The other is a bunch of psychic mystics. There are much more compelling similarities between the protoss and the eldar than the preds. Which, given that Warcraft and Starcraft are both at least mildly stealing from the Warhammer line, isn't hard to swallow. Because they look like predators and they have invisibility shields. It isn't rocket science. And you can't steal something that's already stolen. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: schild on May 19, 2007, 11:12:26 AM Hey guys. Guys. At least Diablo 3 with some sort of persistancy is guaranteed next. Rite? I mean, they have to. Rite? They don't have the creativity or balls to make a new IP... rite? :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Litigator on May 19, 2007, 11:26:17 AM Well, as I mentioned elsewhere, even the Koreans were kinda hoping for a Starcraft MMO. Of course, they're HAPPY with SC2, but I can't help but think that they might have been even happier with World of Starcraft. SC and WOW received equal amounts of applause-noise during the Blizzard game montage movie. With a smaller happy-noise for Diablo. Warcraft got the least amount of excitement. They've got an enormous team on WoW. WoW is an huge revenue generator. To serve the WoW player base and keep generating that money, they have a huge team continually building content for WoW. If they take a chunk of the WoW team off of WoW, they won't be able to update it as much. If they expanded to try to support two huge MMOs, the quality of the content would probably suffer, and it wouldn't make sense to do that, because the products essentially compete with one another. I am sure that the next Blizzard MMO is in the early stages now, but there's no reason to see that for at least a couple of years. I'm really excited about the RTS. I really enjoyed SC and War3, and Blizz has not released an RTS in almost 5 years. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: LK on May 19, 2007, 11:38:25 AM Hey guys. Guys. At least Diablo 3 with some sort of persistancy is guaranteed next. Rite? I mean, they have to. Rite? They don't have the creativity or balls to make a new IP... rite? :( :( :( :( :( You're funny to watch like this. :) Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Signe on May 19, 2007, 12:32:58 PM I DON'T THINK THEY MADE THE RITE DECISION.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Ragnoros on May 19, 2007, 12:42:36 PM Hmm put me firmly in the "Meh" 'crowd. I mean yeah it's going to be fun, possibly really really fun. Have a cool story and flashy cinematics, but make no doubt about it, it will be the same game we all played almost ten years ago. And I just can't that hyped up over playing the same game again only shiny.
Look at C&C3 it was very shiny and well polished, but in the end it was the same old tank rush. And that got old quick. I'll light a candle for ya schild, maybe we will get news of D3 at Blizcon or the new E3. Myself I am holding out hope that HG:L will be the new Robot Jesus for diablo fans. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Merusk on May 19, 2007, 12:58:11 PM At the rate they're going with new games every 2-3 years, you're going to need to wait until 2009 at least before hearing about the next project... Lost Vikings 3.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: schild on May 19, 2007, 01:12:11 PM Merusk, why do you hate me so?
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Reign on May 19, 2007, 03:01:35 PM Yeah..no way on God's green earth this was the right decision...what a screwed up year for MMO's it has been thus far- I guess its time to wait until October and hope AoC is enough to hold us over for a non-fantasy MMO that can hold water for once.
I just dont get it really...Blizzard stands to make a TON more revenue -on TOP of WoW- if they make a Starcraft MMO. I cant stand it when people try to use the argument it would suck away WoW's playerbase...Uuumm....if YOUR game is sucking away YOUR prior playerbase, who gives a rats butt? Thats called a paralell shift, and you're still getting dollars from those people. Not to mention Blizzard would gain millions of Starcraft MMO players that do not currently play WoW, and you kind of have a brain-dead decision here I think, unless theres another dev staff working behind the scenes on a Starcraft MMO. Dont get me wrong, if thats not the case, I think Blizzard will see the negative fallout from this decision and will eventually decide to go the route of a Starcraft MMO, but hell, by the time it gets developed and released it will likely be 5-7 years from now....at that point we might be all burned out in this sucky market as it is.... Im already to the point where if I see another dwarf or elf I'm going to send a pot of burning feces to the company CEO who was idiotic enough to create another fantasy game in this saturated-as-hell market. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Sir Fodder on May 19, 2007, 03:15:32 PM Interesting that the coverage seems to be all about shiny and new units, not much about gameplay. Looks like this will be standard RTS build order spastic clickfest, bleh.
Quote I wanted them to announce they were going to take over another genre for a bit, with fun engaging derivative gameplay. But only because I love to see the industry reaction, in a sardonic sorta way Quote Which genre haven't they done that needs the Blizzard touch? Real Time Tactical. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Margalis on May 19, 2007, 03:37:33 PM Put me in the 'meh' category as well. Is the gameplay going to be any different at all?
SC came out at a good time, RTS was a huge genre but still had room for polish. At this point RTS is old hat and SC2 doesn't sound like much new and different, just SC with some different units. I'm also well past the age of playing LAN battles in college. Random internet fucktards? No thanks. Edit: Those movies were so over-dramatic and the GG at the end was quite silly. It looks like all the new units are obvious hard-counters. I'm sure it will be a good game but it just doesn't excite me. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Merusk on May 19, 2007, 03:39:02 PM Merusk, why do you hate me so? It's the way you twitch when you're in pain. It's like a panoply of climaxing super models dancing on my brain. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Samwise on May 19, 2007, 05:16:50 PM In the interest of providing fair and balanced commentary, I now give you my completely uncensored reaction to this announcement.
THEY'RE FINALLY MAKING STARCRAFT 2!!!!! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is all. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Azazel on May 19, 2007, 05:29:26 PM Is RTS that popular in the US anymore? I'd say the decision to announce the game in Korean pretty clearly says, "not so much". That combined with the hope that this would be some form of MMO or Diablo 3, thus the disappointment I think it's because every single Korean person will play SC.. I also find it amazingly amusing to see people on messageboards predict massive doom and gloom because they didn't get the announcement that they personally wanted (I'm speaking of Reign, etc, not schild). Oh, and you can colour me personally totally indifferent to SC2 as well, and I'd definately have given a Galaxy of Starcraft a go, too. But it's not always about your personal preferences. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Signe on May 19, 2007, 05:56:49 PM Merusk, why do you hate me so? It's the way you twitch when you're in pain. It's like a panoply of climaxing super models dancing on my brain. OMG. I can't believe I'm the only person who read this and said, "OMG." Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Akkori on May 19, 2007, 09:06:12 PM I'm a solid "meh" also. Unless I see something pretty dramatic between no w& it's release, I don't think I will even buy it. I figure by then, EA will release a couple new expansions to Battlefield, or even a new game, and those are a lot more fun to e nowadays than an RTS. I loved them a few years ago, having played all the Age of Empires, Outpost 2 (old, but still kind of fun), Homeworld (my first 3-d flight game), Dune Emperor, Empire at War, and 2 of the C&C's. Wow, I hadn't ever listed them all before... Anyway, maybe this means in another 5 years the IP will have enough traction to start an MMO.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Trippy on May 19, 2007, 09:46:12 PM Quote Starcraft2.com: That last one is reason enough to buy for me.Features: * Fast-paced, hard-hitting, tightly balanced competitive real-time strategy gameplay that recaptures and improves on the magic of the original game * Three completely distinct races: Protoss, Terran, and Zerg * New units and gameplay mechanics further distinguish each race * Groundbreaking single-player "story-mode" campaign * Vibrant new 3D-graphics engine with support for dazzling visual effects and massive unit and army sizes * Full multiplayer support, with new competitive features and matchmaking utilities available through Battle.net * Full map-making and scripting tools to give players incredible freedom in customizing and personalizing their gameplay experience Starcraft: DotA Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Kitsune on May 20, 2007, 01:56:23 AM We won't know the value of Starcraft 2 until it's out. Starcraft's strength was in its characters and story, not the graphics or the gameplay, both of which were fairly generic RTS. Patching up the graphics and throwing some new toys into the gameplay, while not overwhelming, are still more than sufficient for Starcraft 2 to kick ass, IF they get writers as good as the ones who worked on the first one. If they just schlock out a Warcraft 3-ish plot, then yeah, 'meh' for Starcraft 2. We'll see. I certainly hope that it turns out to be a better game than the first.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: schild on May 20, 2007, 02:00:19 AM Characters and story? What? Starcraft's strength was ONLY it's gameplay. What is this character and story shit? Did I miss a Starcraft?
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Azazel on May 20, 2007, 02:31:48 AM dammit, schild. Stop making me agree with you.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Trippy on May 20, 2007, 04:22:37 AM Characters and story? What? Starcraft's strength was ONLY it's gameplay. What is this character and story shit? Did I miss a Starcraft? Odd, I played through the single-player campaigns for SC and Brood Wars multiple times just for the story. It's one of the few games I've done that for.Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: AcidCat on May 20, 2007, 08:43:07 AM Characters and story? What? Starcraft's strength was ONLY it's gameplay. What is this character and story shit? Did I miss a Starcraft? Yeah I couldn't tell you a single character from Starcraft's story. The gameplay itself, like Warcraft II, was just insanely addictive. Incidentally, when Starcraft came out, I didn't have a PC at the time. So when the Nintendo 64 version came out, I snatched it up and sunk hours upon hours into that game. So I'm definitely looking forward to Starcraft II. I haven't played a RTS since Warcraft III (which I was a bit disappointed in). Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Samwise on May 20, 2007, 09:00:22 AM Characters and story? What? Starcraft's strength was ONLY it's gameplay. What is this character and story shit? Did I miss a Starcraft? Odd, I played through the single-player campaigns for SC and Brood Wars multiple times just for the story. It's one of the few games I've done that for.I'm with Trippy here. One of the reasons I dropped Warcraft 3 early was that I expected a story on par with Starcraft's and didn't get it. Honestly, if they put out another expansion to SC 1, a la Brood Wars, I would buy it, even with the same old engine and gameplay. If SC 2 is an SC 1 expansion plus a shiny new engine, so much the better. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Strazos on May 20, 2007, 09:00:52 AM The same game with pretty graphics and a few new units? Pass.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: MrHat on May 20, 2007, 09:04:17 AM The same game with pretty graphics and a few new units? Pass. As someone who buys a new Madden '08 every year, I bite my thumb at thee sir. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: atricks on May 20, 2007, 09:09:38 AM Starcraft 2 will do amazingly well despite all this. Damn the stuff i'm reading here reads just like what i was reading the time Starcraft 1 came out and everyone was calling it Warcraft 2 in space.
RTS have had bit of a revival lately, with old franchises being resurrected (Command and Conquer 3, Supreme Commander from TA), Company of Heroes, etc. The time is right for Starcraft 2. Quite frankly I'm sick of MMOs, and probably will be for a while. Starcraft 2 will be good because it's a highly highly polished experience that just improves on what already worked pretty well. Take all the Blizzard bias away and it stands pretty well on its own. A starcraft mmo should be nothing like Wow or zoned based games. If anything something like a mmo version of Starflight or Star Control with planets and space battles would work. "Yet another fucking fantasy MMO" with a space skin it should not be. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Megrim on May 20, 2007, 09:19:23 AM Characters and story? What? Starcraft's strength was ONLY it's gameplay. What is this character and story shit? Did I miss a Starcraft? Yeah I couldn't tell you a single character from Starcraft's story. The gameplay itself, like Warcraft II, was just insanely addictive. Incidentally, when Starcraft came out, I didn't have a PC at the time. So when the Nintendo 64 version came out, I snatched it up and sunk hours upon hours into that game. So I'm definitely looking forward to Starcraft II. I haven't played a RTS since Warcraft III (which I was a bit disappointed in). Kerrigan, Tassadar and Raynor don't ring any bells? Come on now... Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Akkori on May 20, 2007, 09:19:35 AM At the very least, BLizzard can do *something* new with SC2 by just packing it full of storylines and campaigns. All the RTS' I played were fun, and their single-player progressions were okay, but I would love to see an RTS come out that would take at least a month to get through on easy/medium difficulty. Then they could support it with patches which regularly introduce more and more stories and campaigns that you could buy for a couple bucks each. Micro-expansion, if you will. Hell, lets go crazy and suggest that they review player-generated content, and if it is up to snuff, use it in a micro-expansion and give the player who made it a cut of the money.
If they could make an RTS that did not fall off in popularity when you did all the campaigns and "death-matched" it to death, then it would be cool. This could also work to build up the IP enough to prime it for an MMO. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Darkgar on May 20, 2007, 10:16:21 AM It will do well on it's name alone for sure and it's an upgrade to all the SC and WCIII players out there. I do feel the story will be Metzen-ized and tied to the WoW lore more tightly (ugh *shakes fist*). Based on current way they are ruining WoW, I do not want Blizzard to do another MMO, they do have this franchise and Diablo to re-visit and I would be happy even if they were a bit "more of the same just updated".
I am not going to like waiting five to three to five more years for Diablo III (a touch of sour grapes on my part - #evil grin#), but D2 for me never got old as quick as RTS's like SC do. But I will get the game the first time I can get a discount on it for kicks alone. *dreams of a Zy-El or Eastern Sun mod for D3 sometime before he retires* Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Yegolev on May 20, 2007, 11:22:59 AM I can't believe Blizzard is using their shitty, much reviled bittorrent system to download the trailers. Why are you shocked? The largest, most profitable MOG in the world uses it for patch distribution. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Litigator on May 20, 2007, 11:28:03 AM At the very least, BLizzard can do *something* new with SC2 by just packing it full of storylines and campaigns. All the RTS' I played were fun, and their single-player progressions were okay, but I would love to see an RTS come out that would take at least a month to get through on easy/medium difficulty. Then they could support it with patches which regularly introduce more and more stories and campaigns that you could buy for a couple bucks each. Micro-expansion, if you will. Hell, lets go crazy and suggest that they review player-generated content, and if it is up to snuff, use it in a micro-expansion and give the player who made it a cut of the money. If they could make an RTS that did not fall off in popularity when you did all the campaigns and "death-matched" it to death, then it would be cool. This could also work to build up the IP enough to prime it for an MMO. No, I don't want to see an endless story in an RTS campaign. RTS scenarios are built around expanding the options available and constructing the missions around the use of specific units or unit combinations, with the big combined arms battle with all the stuff unlocked at the end. The last act of the campaign needs to feel like a climax, and the arc of the campaign should teach you the units, so you can go from the campaign to the online multiplayer. I expect Starcraft 2 to be built from the ground up to replace Starcraft as the definitive tournament/e-sport RTS, although the campaign will be stellar; Blizzard's always are. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Yegolev on May 20, 2007, 11:42:12 AM OK my opinion here is that if you want to turn a RTS into a MOG, you will need to set it up so there is an end. Current graphical MUDs are designed to run continuously, but I think someone needs to set up a territorial-conquest game that terminates once someone wins and everyone starts up a new game. Of course, I don't really know if I support cross-game persistence in that, so you would not really have a MOG in that case.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Margalis on May 20, 2007, 12:02:46 PM Blizzard has stated that the single player is an afterthought.
Quote Starcraft 2 will do amazingly well despite all this. Damn the stuff i'm reading here reads just like what i was reading the time Starcraft 1 came out and everyone was calling it Warcraft 2 in space. You do realize that when SC1 was first demoed it literally was WC in space and that they totally revamped that game after that right? I don't remember anyone calling it War in space after the revamp. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: AcidCat on May 20, 2007, 01:32:25 PM Kerrigan, Tassadar and Raynor don't ring any bells? Come on now... Well now that you MENTION it! :wink: Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Tannhauser on May 20, 2007, 01:34:37 PM Allow me to predict Blizz's long-term strategery now.
Since SC2 is a RTS one may assume Blizz doesn't want another MMO to 'suck away the WoW playerbase' and compete with itself. So this means D3 will also NOT be a MMO and will be another, shinier version of D2 with more bells and even a whistle or two. I would kill my family and burn down their houses for a Mass Effect type MMO. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Megrim on May 20, 2007, 06:14:59 PM Couple of articles up on gamespot.
Artistic vision. (http://au.gamespot.com/news/6171176.html) Design theory. (http://au.gamespot.com/news/6171178.html) This is the direct rip: Art At the 2007 Worldwide Invitational event, Blizzard Entertainment is offering tournament play for its hardcore fans and open panel discussions for its inquisitive ones. The company's senior artists, including senior 3D artist Dave Berggren, senior 3D artist Allen Dilling, senior 3D artist Trevor Jacobs, lead technical artist Rob McNaughton, and senior art director Samwise Didier, sit on a panel to discuss how the studio creates art "the Blizzard way." Didier explains that within the core philosophies of Blizzard art design, "nothing is subtle--every character is over-the-top; every environment is either beautiful or battle-scarred." Says, the art director, Blizzard's characters come to life by means of strong silhouettes, exaggerated proportions, distinctive animations, and "bold, saturated colors" so that they not only look memorable, but are easy to distinguish at a glance--an important quality for real-time strategy units that must often be viewed from a zoomed-out view. Didier adds that at Blizzard, art is something that "isn't finished until the game is shipped"--artists typically work on continued passes right until games are complete. Technical artist McNaughton then takes the stage and explains how the studio uses a handful of primary art tools to create its games; Adobe Photoshop for texture art, 3D Studio Max for its low-polygon models, Mudbox for its high-polygon models, and its own proprietary toolsets, such as "Startools," to create in-game objects such as trees and other "doodads," and "Scumedit," the updated map editor. McNaughton also points out that Startools and Scumedit will be part of the map- and mod-making tools that will ship wth the game. McNaughton explains that Starcraft II's graphics will be based off of the DirectX 9.0 API will full support for Pixel Shader 2.0, including support for conventional DirectX 9.0 effets such as normal mapping and high dynamic range lighting and bloom. However, though the game will be playable on both WindowsXP and Vista, Starcraft II, in its current early state, does not support DirectX 10. The artist tempers his description of the advanced graphical effects by explaining that although the game will feature advanced graphical effects, it will scale, to some extent, downward to still allow players who don't own cutting-edge PC hardware to play the game. 3D artist Trevor Jacobs then discusses the process of how Blizzard starts with 2D concept art and eventualy arrives at finished models, using the Protoss "immortal" tank as an example to go from hand drawing to rough model (adjusted to make sure the model looks good from the traditional RTS overhead view) to texturing to polish, and 3D artist Allen Dilling reiterates the importance of creating distinctive animations for units. As an example, Dilling shows the Starcraft II flying mutalisk and tiny, doglike zerglings in action, both alone and in large crowds. Starcraft II's units will have multiple "move cycle" animations so they don't all move in unison with the exact same frames of animation; the crowd of zerglings looks especially creepy because none of them seems to be running about in the same way or in the same direction, like a swarm of hyperactive fire ants. Dilling explains that because Starcraft II is being developed with professional competition in mind, the sequel's special effects will be "tight, fast, and quick" such that they don't obscure the action or slow down your computer. However, "landmark events" like the summoning of the top-level protoss mothership unit will be accompanied by sufficient graphical fanfare to point out their importance. The panel winds down with a brief presentaton on environments from 3D artist Dave Berggren, who suggests that Starcraft II will take place both in new worlds and in worlds that had appeared in the original game. Berggren shows concepts for the protoss world of Bel'Shir, a lush, jungle planet that had once served as a religious retreat for the race before it was sacked by the zerg--the planet has since become covered in ruined temples. Berggren also introduces Braxis Alpha, the terran settlement that appeared in yesterday's video presentation. Braxis Alpha will be a combination of industrial wasteland and mountainous regions, covered in craggy rock formations and factory-like debris, such as loose gears and turbines that jut out from mountain faces. Finally, Berggren shows concept art of the zerg world of Char (where Kerrigan, the former terran ghost unit-turned-zerg-commander holds court), which will, like in the previous games, be a craggy, volcanic planet covered in lava floes. Berggren points out that although Blizzard's art team is taking advantage of modern texturing approaches to environments by mapping terrains and overlaying photorealistic textures, the art team will also make final passes to tweak environmental areas by hand. Design Believe it or not, even though the Blizzard Worldwide Invitational 2007 event is home to music concerts and some of the biggest game tournaments in the world, one of the most intriguing activities is actually sitting quietly in a theater. Three of Blizzard's top creative talents, creative director Andy Chambers, senior game designer Dustin Browder, and vice president of game design Rob Pardo sit on a panel to discuss gameplay details for the company's newly announced sequel, Starcraft II. Pardo begins the discussion by revisiting several of the studio's previous games, going back as far as Warcraft II, which the vice president cites as the first Blizzard game to garner a significant following as a competitive multiplayer game. Pardo explains that the original Starcraft arose from the team's desire to create a fast-paced real-time strategy game like Warcraft II, but in a different universe, then describes how Blizzard's subsequent RTS project, 2002's Warcraft III, took a very different approach by offering slower-paced gameplay with smaller armies, hero units, and many units with activatable abilities to appeal to "the average gamer." Pardo suggests that the units in both the original Starcraft, and in the sequel, will instead act as "movers and shooters"--mostly autonomous forces that generally lack special abilties, but will instead be used in large control groups to "do their own thing" in battle, rather than requiring the micromanagement of high-level Warcraft III play. Pardo continues to contrast Warcraft III against Starcraft II, explaining that Warcraft III had less of an emphasis on economic buildup to allow more focus on battles. The 2002 game also, suggests the VP, was much less about early-game victories. While that game did introduce "creeps"--neutral creatures that could be fought to gain experience points for your hero units, early armies in Warcraft III were generally capable of only harrassing your enemies, not defeating them outright. Pardo suggests that "with Starcraft II, [Blizzard is] really going back to its roots to make a true sequel to Starcraft"--a sequel where resource management will be much more central to gameplay, with less micromanagement of different units with special abilities, and in which full-on early-game "rushing" (making an all-out assault at or near the beginning of a new game session) will be much more viable. In fact, the VP goes on to state that the game will probably offer more early "tech tree" optons--different development paths players can take by building different structures and researching different upgrades--which will make early-game scouting more important, and will make early-game rushing a more-diverse and deeper strategy. Pardo also suggests that Warcraft III might have been a more-forgiving game for beginners--differences in skill levels seemed less pronounced in that game. Says the VP, in Starcraft II, there will be many more nuances that will separate highly skilled players from beginners, and good players from great ones. So in contrast to the sometimes-protracted matches of Warcraft III, Pardo expects the average Starcraft II multiplayer match to last about 20 minutes of real time; possibly even as little as 15 minutes when played by the pros. Pardo points out that there will be numerous subtleties added to the game that expert players will learn to use to their advantage, such as a revamped "high ground" system. In the previous Starcraft, ground units that had a height advantage by standing on high ground gained attack bonuses, but would also reveal themselves when attacking. In the sequel, units with high ground will still gain the attack bonuses but will remain concealed by the "fog of war" (the black shroud that covers unexplored areas)--a fact that can be used together with other line-of-signt nuances to your advantage. Pardo ends his part of the talk by emphasizing that Blizzard remains committed to making the three factions distinct, and to making Starcraft II's gameplay true to the original game, but also different and new. For instance, the VP cites the new protoss units and abilities that have been shown--the ability to "warp-in" to different locations, and the powerful mothership unit. Says the VP, yes, Blizzard could have also looked to create a "terran version" and a "protoss version" of these new units and abilities, but the team did not. It is instead looking to balance the factions against each other while keeping them distinct. Pardo suggests that Starcraft II will, like the original game, still be a game about "hard counters"--such as how certain units can be directly "countered" (defeated decisively) by specific counter-units; as an example, Pardo shows a brief demonstration of protoss templar units, which are the counter-unit to zerglings, annihilating a swarm of the tiny zerg infantry with their "psi storm" ability. Says Pardo: "Yes, [Starcraft II] will stil be fast-paced and have 'multitasking' for resources and combat, but it'll be a very different game." The floor is then given to game designer Dustin Browder, who uses his time to cite specific examples of different units in play. To begin with, Browder shows a demonstration of the protoss stalker, a ground-based unit that can attack both air and ground enemies and isn't all that tough, but can "blink" (warp in and out) to any location to which they have line of sight. The obvious uses of this handy ability include pursuing fleeing units by constantly "blinking in" in front of them, but they can also apparently be used as powerful base raiders by bypassing terrain barriers if you have an aerial scout, such as the protoss phoenix, to quickly get you line-of-sight beyond terrain obstacles. In addition, extremely skilled players will be able to defeat slower-moving melee enemies with stalkers by sticking and moving, repeatedly blinking in and out of range. The designer shows a demonstration of stalkers up against a group of protoss zealots, somewhat slow melee units that simply aren't able to close in for a hit as the stalkers keep blinking away and firing constantly, eventually winning the battle. Browder shows how the new units and new abilties for existing units will help diversify gameplay and work within the counter-unit system. For instance, the protoss immortal, a ground-based tank unit, is extremely tough but slow (and can therefore be countered by quick-thinking players with enough resources to build up counter-units, and is also therefore not able to effectively flee from a losing battle), and possesses a powerful energy shield that is triggered only from heavy-duty fire. This makes the immortal a natural counter-unit for the terran siege tank, whose powerful cannons can't do much against the immortal's energy shield. However, the slow-moving immortals themselves can be easily countered by a large swarm of zerglings, which don't deal enough damage to trigger the immortals' shields, and are too quick for the tank to outrun. Browder then shows an additional example of the kind of subtleties that will separate skilled players from unskilled players. The protoss phoenix, a flying unit, has a special "overload" ability that creates a damaging energy field around itself, then renders it immobile and helpless shortly afterward. Browder shows a simulated battle between a player with six phoenix units and another player with only four. The player with six phoenixes apparently chokes and uses the overload ability too early, allowing the other player to dodge out of harm's way, then arrange the four phoenixes around the now immobile six in a loose formation and overload the six into oblivion, which suggests that sheer numbers won't always prevail in the face of high-level skill in Starcraft II. Browder then shows a demonstration of protoss warp-in technology, which can be used to mount a powerful surprise offense by summoning a large army seemingly out of nowhere. However, the same tech can apparently be used for base defense; the designer shows how an early zergling raid on a protoss base goes sour as the tiny zerg suddenly find themselves boxed in between protoss buildings and a small contingent of melee-attacking zealots, with immortal tanks lobbing fire from a distance. The designer closes by stating that the team's goals are to "recapture the magic of the original Starcraft, which was a wonderful, wonderful game," and to "make Starcraft II about these three unique races by generating new tactics and strategies." The panel then takes various questions which reveal some intriguing new details about the sequel. An audience question about future beta plans prompts Pardo to state that Starcraft II will likely have a "closed beta by invitation, similar to [Blizzard's] other products, though this time, [Blizzard] will also enlist the help of pro players to help test for balance." When asked about the status of the terrans (who were decimated at the end of the Brood War expansion pack for the original Starcraft), creative designer Andy Chambers explains that "the UED terran forces were destroyed by Kerrigan's zerg armies (though a few surviving companies may stil be around somewhere)," and that the Terran faction in Starcraft II will primarily consist of the "evil empire" of the Terran Dominion. When asked about the status of lead character Jim Raynor, Chambers replies that since Starcraft II takes place four years after Brood War, "Raynor has been having some adventures for sure," but declines to comment further. Chambers also suggests that the ancient Xel'Naga, which helped both the protoss and zerg races become what they are (but were later destroyed by the zerg) will also figure into Starcraft II's story "in a rather epic tale." To cap the presentation, Browder fields a final question that may come as a relief to some players: that there are "no plans at this time for naval combat in Starcraft II." --- So, they seem to be aware of some of the major concerns the SC community has: clarity of visual presentation - something much lamented in War3, gameplay speed, the viability of tech vs early pressure and low(er than usual) system requirement. Oh and the single-player is going to be "epic", which i suppose puts a dampener on all of you who are becrying Blizzard's commitment to the non-multiplayer part of the game. I think at the moment i am in the 'cautiously optimistic' camp (what you say? My avatar? Fanboi, huh, what? Nooo....), much the same as i was regarding Supreme Commander. Here's to hoping Blizzard have their head screwed on right. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Trippy on May 20, 2007, 06:24:23 PM Quote creative director Andy Chambers Oh, the irony :-D(Yes it really is that Andy Chambers) Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Merusk on May 20, 2007, 06:55:33 PM Quote creative director Andy Chambers Oh, the irony :-D(Yes it really is that Andy Chambers) Please explain for the slow among us who don't actually follow devs like they're sports stars. All I get from Google is some guy who used to work for Games Workshop in some capacity. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Trippy on May 20, 2007, 07:46:32 PM Quote creative director Andy Chambers Oh, the irony :-D(Yes it really is that Andy Chambers) Title: Re: StarCraft 2 Media Post by: Teleku on May 21, 2007, 08:12:59 AM Dear god that Protoss Mothership looks powerfull. Not only does it have the independance day type weapon and shield, it also can create a god damn black hole that sucks everything into it. I wonder if each race gets some sort of mega ship. They should call the Terran one a Titan ;).
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Paelos on May 21, 2007, 08:50:04 AM I own the original Starcraft. I didn't buy the expansion and I don't plan on buying this one either. Polish alone won't do it for me in the RTS market anymore. You have to do something really new for me to get excited about the game, and multiplayer RTS has sucked away the last part of my soul that gives a damn.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Morat20 on May 21, 2007, 10:41:15 AM I own the original Starcraft. I didn't buy the expansion and I don't plan on buying this one either. Polish alone won't do it for me in the RTS market anymore. You have to do something really new for me to get excited about the game, and multiplayer RTS has sucked away the last part of my soul that gives a damn. The Brood War expansion was a pretty good one. Effectively wiped out the last balance problems, added a bunch of new strategic options, and (IIRC) gave the AI a kick to the pants.Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Samwise on May 21, 2007, 10:56:34 AM I forget sometimes that the original Starcraft didn't have medics, or lurkers, or dark templar, or dark archons, or devourers, or corsairs. Which is a testament to how well the new units fit in to the game, even though many of them seemed cheesy at first glance.
Looking forward to seeing what they come up with for SC 2. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Morat20 on May 21, 2007, 11:24:48 AM I forget sometimes that the original Starcraft didn't have medics, or lurkers, or dark templar, or dark archons, or devourers, or corsairs. Which is a testament to how well the new units fit in to the game, even though many of them seemed cheesy at first glance. As a dedicated fan of all things Protoss, I did live for the days when I'd manage to snag a Zerg broodling (or whatever they were called -- it's been years) and start creating my own Zerg army. Looking forward to seeing what they come up with for SC 2. When playing against the NPC, I almost always had my own collection of Overlords for transport. :) I think I might reload the game and call up some of friends and get a little action going. I haven't played an RTS since Age of Mythology (and that damn thing never ran quite right with my router...) Title: Re: StarCraft 2 Media Post by: Register on May 21, 2007, 05:18:23 PM The full ingame demo video is out at the starcraft 2 website. There's a huge 400+ MB Hiigh Res vid there - catch is its using the infamous Blizzard Bitorrent thingie for distribution. It's pretty though - at high res you get to see the tiny moving parts and details that gets missed out in the you tube clips; and it comes with commentary discussing on the various units as they are introduced.
Quote Dear god that Protoss Mothership looks powerfull. Not only does it have the independance day type weapon and shield, it also can create a god damn black hole that sucks everything into it. I wonder if each race gets some sort of mega ship. They should call the Terran one a Titan. I think its mentioned that the mothership comes with limited energy - the one in the demo was able to use all 3 abilities only because they cheated to gave it extra energy. Also, from the looks of it the ground laser (planetcracker) seems to drain and remove the glowing blue shield around the mothership - my guess is that its an offense that sacrifices defense. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 Media Post by: Teleku on May 21, 2007, 05:39:39 PM Oh yeah, I'm sure they will balance it. It's just that all 3 of those abilities are pretty damn powerfull on their own, and all packed into one ship. Can't wait to see what the other races get.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 Media Post by: schild on May 21, 2007, 05:51:02 PM They'll balance it. It'll just take 3 years of koreans bitching and moaning on their forums until they get it right.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 Media Post by: Trippy on May 21, 2007, 06:33:18 PM They'll balance it. It'll just take 3 years of koreans bitching and moaning on their forums until they get it right. Pretty much, though they are doing something different this time around and are recruiting the top SC players to be a part of the early balancing phase of the Beta.Title: Re: StarCraft 2 Media Post by: Miasma on May 21, 2007, 08:20:47 PM Even when Blizzard eventually manages to balance it they seem to have taken the whole paper/rock/scissor idea a bit too far. Things like how battlecruisers can't touch those new protoss ships but tiny little hand held gunfire tear them up. Whenever you want to attack an enemy base you're going to need to bring about ten different units to counter everything... Gameplay is probably going to devolve into building up three or four types of units and just hoping the other guy focused on the units you can destroy.
Meh, I hope the solo campaign has a good story. That leads into an MMO damn it. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 Media Post by: Teleku on May 21, 2007, 08:41:10 PM Nah, Warcraft 3 and SC1 both did the paper/rock/scissor thing. It just means that you choose a particular build strategy based around a few unit types and hope your opponent doesnt build or has time to change his build to something that counters yours. Trying to build a few of everything doesnt seem to ever work great since you cant micro manage everything to be its most effecitive, and you wont have the time to upgrade the wide array of units you have to their full potential.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 Media Post by: Paelos on May 21, 2007, 09:05:43 PM Nah, Warcraft 3 and SC1 both did the paper/rock/scissor thing. It just means that you choose a particular build strategy based around a few unit types and hope your opponent doesnt build or has time to change his build to something that counters yours. Trying to build a few of everything doesnt seem to ever work great since you cant micro manage everything to be its most effecitive, and you wont have the time to upgrade the wide array of units you have to their full potential. Does this not seem hopelessly stupid to yall? This kind of crap made me absolutely despise those versions of RTS. I mean having units with advantages and disadvantages is fine, but making them so that they are horrible vulnerable to a specific type of unit while making them overpowering to another doesn't add to the gameplay in my view. I understand like anti-air, anti-ground, long range strike, etc, but this just seems to be overkill to the point of absudity. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 Media Post by: Teleku on May 21, 2007, 10:30:53 PM Err, what else do you want? Just build a bunch of random units with no real strength or weakness's over each other and throw them all in a blob at a base? Can you give an example of the types of RTS you like? Blizzard goes for the heavy paper/rock/scissor approach, which allows for a fairly deep tactical game (for an RTS) that remains fast paced and fun. Not saying you have to like it, but I always enjoyed it. It's a big step up from many other RTS's (past and present) where you just build up a blob of the best unit for your side as fast as you can and insta win. Blizzard, as usual, is just bending realism to better allow for fun gameplay. This is fine. If I want a terribly realistic (sort of) strategy game, I'll just start up a new game of HoI2 ;).
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 Media Post by: Trippy on May 21, 2007, 10:40:41 PM Nah, Warcraft 3 and SC1 both did the paper/rock/scissor thing. It just means that you choose a particular build strategy based around a few unit types and hope your opponent doesnt build or has time to change his build to something that counters yours. Trying to build a few of everything doesnt seem to ever work great since you cant micro manage everything to be its most effecitive, and you wont have the time to upgrade the wide array of units you have to their full potential. Does this not seem hopelessly stupid to yall? This kind of crap made me absolutely despise those versions of RTS. I mean having units with advantages and disadvantages is fine, but making them so that they are horrible vulnerable to a specific type of unit while making them overpowering to another doesn't add to the gameplay in my view. I understand like anti-air, anti-ground, long range strike, etc, but this just seems to be overkill to the point of absudity.Edit: the other problem is that if the units aren't unique and useful in some way and are just scaled versions of each other they tend to be very boring. This is one of the problems TA suffered from. They had this fancy formula, balancing resource costs with unit abilities, that they used to crank out additional units on a regular basis but many of them were just scaled versions of existing units. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Megrim on May 21, 2007, 11:26:50 PM Age of Empires uses rock/paper/scissors. Cavalry > archers > infantry > cavalry. The balance system employed in Starcraft is a little more complex than that. Furthermore, Warcraft3 uses a 'soft-counter' system, which is a different beast entirely.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Margalis on May 21, 2007, 11:36:26 PM Quote Nah, Warcraft 3 and SC1 both did the paper/rock/scissor thing. Before Brood War SC was not really Rock/Paper/Scissors all that much. In Broodwar most of the new units served a much more specific purpose, especially the air units. One of the problems Blizzard had balancing was that units like Hydralisks, Mutalisks and the Protoss airplanes (forget name) were general-purpose. It was hard to make Mutalisks balanced against both other air units and other ground units. I like harder counters to some degree, but the video was really pushing it with "now here is a new unit called the 'Tank Killer' and this one here is called the 'Zergling Zapper'" I expect Clippy to pop up and give me helpful hints. "It looks like you are repelling a mass of zerglings would you like to build some laser beam guys??" I think the big problem they have is that they are aiming at the Korean competitive market. They can't make any major changes or innovate at all without making too many waves there. An upgraded SC is exactly what that audience wants. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Megrim on May 22, 2007, 12:04:09 AM Are you thinking of Scouts?
The problem (for example) with Mutas in vanilla was not so much in and of themselves, but - against Terran for instance - in combination with 'lings. Muta/ling came out too fast (even with spawning pool nerfs) and in numbers far too large to be dealt with by Terran Wraiths/Goliaths (both do explosive damage, Mutas are 'small' in size, meaning they take 50% from explosive) especially since Goliaths did not have Charon missile range upgrade. Vanilla rines fared even worse, since Stim was pretty much a once-off thing, and with no healing available the greater cost-efficiency of the 'lings would run right over them, while Mutas drew fire. The addition of Medics meant that the Z player now had to split the Terran lines, draw M&M (Marine/Medic) goups out of position, or flank to split the concentrated fire in order to beat down a push. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Register on May 22, 2007, 12:41:46 AM So far we have not had any data on whether explosive/concussive/normal damage types still exist in SC2 - if damage types/unit size are removed for other forms of countering then the complexity have not really increased.
I feel that in the demonstration of unit counters the matches were conveniently skewed - in the Warp rays vs. Battle cruisers example the BCs have already used up all their yamato cannons abilities and are damaged from the previous fight. Looking at the last battle, one on one BC vs WR is not nearly as skewed as one might believe, and the Yamato Cannon seems to be able to one shot/heavily damage the protoss ship still. Looking at the Immortal example, I would guess the 'hard shield' to be a creative method to buff the dragoon without just resorting to conventional methods like greater hit pts and range or damage. With this ability I would guess that the immortals should be pretty strong against battlecruisers / colossus too. The Banelings metamorphosis is an interesting way to make zerglings play a strong role even in the endgame - in fact, I see much of the balancing efforts aiming at letting lower tier units retain a role in the end game - much like every piece in Chess having their role and value, without being totally worthless once the match moves closer towards the endgame. More than merely unit vs unit countering, the introduction of complete fog of war coverage for high ground will add significant complexity to terrain - High ground units can now shower death and destruction from above with impunity (in SC1 the units on high ground reveal themselves when they fire - and open themselves to counterattack). As such, high ground might stand as high in strategic importance as choke points - and it is more important than ever to have air units to accompany your ground troops. Damn, sorry for sounding too fanboish, but the gameplay vids rekindled fond memories of old days in LAN shops fighting both friends and strangers... :mrgreen: Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Trippy on May 22, 2007, 01:48:29 AM More than merely unit vs unit countering, the introduction of complete fog of war coverage for high ground will add significant complexity to terrain - High ground units can now shower death and destruction from above with impunity (in SC1 the units on high ground reveal themselves when they fire - and open themselves to counterattack). As such, high ground might stand as high in strategic importance as choke points - and it is more important than ever to have air units to accompany your ground troops. Or you can build one of the new ground units that can move up and down levels to scout.Title: Re: StarCraft 2 Media Post by: Wolf on May 22, 2007, 02:08:46 AM Nah, Warcraft 3 and SC1 both did the paper/rock/scissor thing. It just means that you choose a particular build strategy based around a few unit types and hope your opponent doesnt build or has time to change his build to something that counters yours. Trying to build a few of everything doesnt seem to ever work great since you cant micro manage everything to be its most effecitive, and you wont have the time to upgrade the wide array of units you have to their full potential. Or you could just expand 2 times, build 15 Hatcharies and build a gadzillion hydralisks. TRY AND COUNTER THAT, BITCH. Sigh, Starcraft :-D Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Ironwood on May 22, 2007, 02:09:56 AM And when your wave breaks against the massed bunkers and locked down tanks, well, you're pretty fucked.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Wolf on May 22, 2007, 02:12:01 AM I could show you ;)
Turtling never worked in Starcraft ;) Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Ironwood on May 22, 2007, 02:17:47 AM Oh, it's ON.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Megrim on May 22, 2007, 02:27:59 AM More than merely unit vs unit countering, the introduction of complete fog of war coverage for high ground will add significant complexity to terrain - High ground units can now shower death and destruction from above with impunity (in SC1 the units on high ground reveal themselves when they fire - and open themselves to counterattack). As such, high ground might stand as high in strategic importance as choke points - and it is more important than ever to have air units to accompany your ground troops. Or you can build one of the new ground units that can move up and down levels to scout.ebay float 4 lyfe. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 Media Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2007, 08:08:26 AM Err, what else do you want? Just build a bunch of random units with no real strength or weakness's over each other and throw them all in a blob at a base? Can you give an example of the types of RTS you like? Blizzard goes for the heavy paper/rock/scissor approach, which allows for a fairly deep tactical game (for an RTS) that remains fast paced and fun. Not saying you have to like it, but I always enjoyed it. It's a big step up from many other RTS's (past and present) where you just build up a blob of the best unit for your side as fast as you can and insta win. Blizzard, as usual, is just bending realism to better allow for fun gameplay. This is fine. If I want a terribly realistic (sort of) strategy game, I'll just start up a new game of HoI2 ;). No, having no real str/wkn over other types of units would be stupid. Notice that I used the word TYPES. I loved AoE2 because you classified units into their categories which had advantages over another category, and then you had sub-units within that category that were tradeoffs based on damage/speed/defense/etc. The problem I would have with a game so entrenched in the idea of r/p/s would be that it basically becomes a wing and a prayer instead of strategy. You are essentially hoping your exact mix of units is going to be the right mix against the other players exact mix. It's not like, well I'm focused primarly around a quick ground strategy vs. a long term cav/archer strat, etc. I think if you get too specific you turn it into as much a game of luck as skill. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 Media Post by: Roac on May 22, 2007, 08:17:29 AM Hmm. I think Blizzard tends to do a good job with game development, and am not too worried that they'll fuck up SC2 via very, very basic design flaws. I don't see this as anything other than a 'must buy' for anyone who likes RTS games to any extent.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Murgos on May 22, 2007, 08:31:54 AM The game play video looked exactly like what I have come to expect from Blizzard, evolutionary changes that are cleaned and polished to a brilliant shine.
I only play an RTS once in a great while (Dawn of War was the last one, other than the demos foe Company of Heroes and that abomination from the TA guy) and I will almost certainly be playing this. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: sinij on May 22, 2007, 09:18:20 AM I could show you ;) Turtling never worked in Starcraft ;) It does, when its outside your base locking you into your initial 2 spots. 2 hatchery method works great against newbies, experienced player will make you pay for it with early rush and keeping pressure on, you ether lose second spot or will have to dig in and get later pounded by heavy air. Best counter to it is Iron Maiden rush - bunkers at choke, M&M and stepping tanks up all the way to your base. You won't get enough long ranged air in time to switch from ground to all out air or you won't have enough ground to stop tanks reaching your base. I find best is to go 6 zergling rush (not super-early one where you compromise your build) then expand and go for cracklings spam/ultralisks. 8 hatcheries can usually spam enough zerglings that at speed+adrenalin and 1/1 upgrade can tear about anything but heavy air down. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: bhodi on May 22, 2007, 09:45:47 AM And when your wave breaks against the massed bunkers and locked down tanks, well, you're pretty fucked. It doesn't break when you throw up the insect swarm. Even though mass hydras was awesome, you generally want to have SOME melee in front -- ultralisks or cracklings work nicely.It was mostly about the swarm cloud late game versus terrans though. That's what wins you the game. If someone does what sinji describes, your best bet is to rush for a drop on their base to buy yourself some time. With so many resources invested into just outside your base, theirs will be correspondingly weak. If you're good at the micro, you can do some ugly damage with hydra base harrass. In the endgame, the only thing that saves you versus the damn tank step are massed guardians (which is tough to pull off w/ their damn wraiths) Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Wolf on May 22, 2007, 11:26:39 AM Seriously. I'd like to see someone try and stop me from getting my second hatchery in a position to defend my expansion on lost temple. There are drawbacks to it, no arguing there, but nothing involving the building bunkers can even touch me. I'll just write it off to you guys not playing starcraft in a while :)
ps: 1. A bunker costs 150 minerals - that's three marines. 2. Marines inside a bunker can't be stimpacked without having to click like a madman. 3. +3 stimpacked Marines > -3 nonstimpacked ones. If someone wants to play, look me up on irc. I'm almost always ready to go :) Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Morat20 on May 22, 2007, 11:38:50 AM I'm really the odd man out here -- I prefer playing RTS in a co-op mode. All my strategies are designed around a two-man team, versus either an insane number of NPC teams or another two-man team.
Not that I was ever that good at it, mind you. :) Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: sinij on May 22, 2007, 03:58:53 PM Seriously. I'd like to see someone try and stop me from getting my second hatchery in a position to defend my expansion on lost temple. There are drawbacks to it, no arguing there, but nothing involving the building bunkers can even touch me. I'll just write it off to you guys not playing starcraft in a while :) ps: 1. A bunker costs 150 minerals - that's three marines. 2. Marines inside a bunker can't be stimpacked without having to click like a madman. 3. +3 stimpacked Marines > -3 nonstimpacked ones. If someone wants to play, look me up on irc. I'm almost always ready to go :) Most of the times it will be only 1 bunker, built before deployed tanks available, next to supply depot to make sure you don't try to rush my base or root me out of choke spot. I only have to contain you with bunker, once I have enough tanks I won't have to build anything. Your second base means on thing - once I show up with my first batch of marines to construct first bunker in ideal choke spot there is nothing you can do about it since you don't have enough units to root me out. When you do get some units you are dealing with a bunker behind supply depot next to supply depot and my range-upgraded marines. You can't easily fly out - by the time you have any meaningful air transport (2 upgrades for zerg) I will have air to take it down. To counter bunkers at your choke you can ether a) don't expand early and have enough forces to stop bunker from being completed b) rush air and hope you get more guardians, faster than your opponent gets enough tanks to smash your defenses and just marine/goliath rush few guardians you have c) hope your opponent incompetent enough to leave base open to air attacks. More often that not I play with bunker/supply and tank being ONLY thing holding choke, and instead deploying tanks at cliff above your second base. By the time you clear that whole mess up I will have 3 bases and will be mass producing heavy air. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: bhodi on May 22, 2007, 06:34:50 PM It's iffy, depending on the skill level. Zerg versus terran is a rush for terrans to fight off the mini-rush, almost all good zerg players do the 6 zergling rush, as it doesn't cripple your teching, you can smooth to hydras or rush to air or both for a drop; this is generally easy to absorb assuming the terran has some skill and builds their bunkers within firing range of the SCV cloud. The terran's challenge is then to find out where the zerg expands, see if they go for an early expansion and nail it with marine/firebat combo in the small window between start and completion of the first defensive tentacle (I like three on ST, but will generally go for 1 or 2 on other maps). This is completely possible if they are fast enough and can force the second hatchery to be built in base instead of at the expansion mineral point. Then they can bunker in and by time the battle is decided they should hvae 1-2 untech'd tanks there with siege tech researching (if the marines rushed to siege, which they should versus zerg). If the marines fail at stopping the expansion, however, the counterattack with hydras can spell doom for them, as zerg can get expansions up faster than humans and overwhelm. I don't personally like to go mutas versus humans; I generally favor the hydralisk+lurker drop on main base, especially on LT.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Akkori on May 22, 2007, 08:12:13 PM I must have really missed the boat, having never played against another player. I played exclusively against the computer. Against 4 or 6 AI opponents, you gotta really scramble. But it's also fairly predictable, hence increasing the number of your opponents. I think I still have SC1... I may install and mess with it for a bit.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: bhodi on May 22, 2007, 09:47:35 PM Against AI, it's simply turtle and go for mass air -- guardians/battlecruisers/carriers -- boring.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Wolf on May 23, 2007, 01:06:16 AM But, Sinij, you do not have to build a bunker. Why am I even explaining this to you, let's jump online and I'll show you. You never need a bunker anywhere in the game. Ever. Zerg vs Terran is my favourite match up, either side of the coin.
Bhodi has a few valid points, but the thing is that no smart zerg will early rush. It's just so easy to get a second expansion vs a human - he can basically do absolutely nothing to you before he is tech'd up to siege tanks. And by the time he is, you have a second expansion running, you have completely skipped hidras, and you're poking around in his base with 6-12-18 Mutalisks not losing a single one. Mutas/Zerglings and the odd lurker will inflict so much pain on a mid-game terran it's not even funny. You go Mutas, instead of lurkers, to force him to get Valkyries - which means he has to tech up even more. What the terran has to do to have a chance of winning is skip tanks completely, you just don't need them vs a Zerg. They have their uses, but each tank costs you 100 gas and the upgrade costs 150 and you're better off spending those resources on other things (like definately getting the first Armor upgrade on your marines, and as much attack upgrades as possible). You have to go heavy barracks and try to push in early, before he gets lurkers or mutas, and you have to have a lot of shit to brake through his defences. If you fail to do that you have to go straight up for Valkyries/Science Vessels w/ Irradiate. And continue on pumping Marines and medics and try to get an expansion going. You also have to guard your shit from mutas coming in from behind. If you manage to pump out a couple of vessels you go and hit him hard. If he skipped mutas you can make a Wraith or two and go bug his overlords. I am going to say this again - I am more than willing to put my money where my mouth is. R U GUYZ? :-D Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Margalis on May 23, 2007, 01:51:11 AM Playng the computer in any competitive game is just totally different. When you play the computer, in any game, the winning strategy is to figure out the computer blind-spots and abuse them. Even in Chess where computers are super-advanced there are still specific anti-computer strategies that get employed.
Playing against humans is just so much more fun. They learn. They react. Over time they improve and force you to improve. I find that competitive games are usually very boring vs. the AI. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Strazos on May 23, 2007, 10:02:39 AM I almost want to install SC and
But then again, I've never been huge on rush tactics...I prefer more leisurely play, and teching up to max and just overloading the opposition. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Morat20 on May 23, 2007, 10:29:09 AM Penny Arcade mentioned SC2 today (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2007/05/23). Strangely, they played the game much the way I did:
Quote Gabriel and I played Starcraft, everyone played Starcraft, but for the most part he and I would play two Terran armies against Zerg computer opponents in an effort to simulate Starship Troopers. It might sound like you could only get a couple nights of entertainment out of this scenario, but you'd be underestimating our feelings toward Starships and the proud Troopers that wait within. Only it was Terran/Protoss for me and my friends. Admittedly, one of them was an absolute demon with wraiths. Excellent at micro-managing, and could manage devestating wraith attacks with few losses while still fine-tuning production and expanding. We would sometimes play online, though I'm prepared to call those times rare in number. This was never our purpose, and so watching this aspect of the game become a global phenomenon was bizarre - like seeing discarded juice caps become a national pastime. The announcement of Starcraft 2 (kept secret, no doubt, through means nefarious) is perfectly acceptable game news, but most of what the announcement did was to make clear just how potent Starcraft's legacy has been. (The less said about its harvest of Warhammer 40k, the better. For Blizzard.) I've seen world-class Starcraft played, and it looks nothing like the game I played with my friends. They aren't just doing the things that we do, only faster. They are operating some kind of Zergling circus; they appear to have taught them tricks. There is a zergling with a ball on its nose, walking on a wire with a long stick. Gabriel and I watched Yellow play at Blizzcon and couldn't really understand it. It was as though he thought in an alien way. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: bhodi on May 23, 2007, 10:37:31 AM I almost want to install SC and There is nothing more satisfying after hearing an hour's diatribe from a friend about how awesome he is at the game and how his battlecruiser army rolls over everything (including you if you were to take him on), than to finally play a game and lock down every single one of his "incinvible battlecruiser army" and kill them to a man. With marines.But then again, I've never been huge on rush tactics...I prefer more leisurely play, and teching up to max and just overloading the opposition. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Yoru on May 23, 2007, 10:42:09 AM I watched the Starcraft 2 video. Their nuclear explosions do not pass muster. :x
More shit flying around, bigger flash and bigger particle effects, ya bastards. I did okay in a standup fight, but I much preferred to team up with one or two other folks. I'd send little token forces to help push the front line, but way in the back would be an ungodly farm of Terran Command Centers with armed nuclear silos ready to go. You haven't lived until you've seen a man go sheet-white after hearing "NU- NU- NU- NU- NU- NU- NU- NU- NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED". Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Strazos on May 23, 2007, 11:54:35 AM Fuck you guys.
/installs Starcraft + Brood War Who wants to play? I'm an easy target, so if you're feeling down today, beat up on my pitiful efforts to play this damn game. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Riggswolfe on May 23, 2007, 12:23:43 PM I always sucked at online Starcraft. I don't play these games fast. I turtle and do tech research by instinct. It's also a blind spot in Civ IV though I'm better at making myself expand in that game.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: schild on May 23, 2007, 12:49:22 PM Turtling is not a legitimate way to play RTS titles. There's a reason the end of most tech trees these days are instant win buttons.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: ajax34i on May 23, 2007, 12:52:53 PM I'd like to understand this discussion even though I've never played Starcraft, so, sorry for asking, but what is "turtling"?
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: MrHat on May 23, 2007, 12:57:48 PM I'll see about picking up YET another copy of SC + BW this weekend sometime.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: schild on May 23, 2007, 12:58:45 PM I'd like to understand this discussion even though I've never played Starcraft, so, sorry for asking, but what is "turtling"? Sitting in your base while growing tech and being a bitch. It is not a legitimate strategy in most games anymore because of the speed of rebuilding an army. Only a few games could you really turtle legitimately, Rise of Nations being one of them. And even then, it was only really easy if you had the terra cotta army wonder. Edit: Ironically, if you had the terra cotta army, you had NO reason to turtle. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Morat20 on May 23, 2007, 01:15:16 PM Turtling is not a legitimate way to play RTS titles. There's a reason the end of most tech trees these days are instant win buttons. One of my favorite missions in the original SC (single-player campaign) was like the second or third. Mission Conditions: "Survive for 30 minutes". First time I played that was sheer awesome.Wasn't hard enough, but was awesome. I turtle by instinct too, behind impenetrable walls of Protoss defense cannons and build my mighty fleet. It sucks against other players, but it's fun as hell against two or three Zerg opponents. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Roac on May 23, 2007, 01:30:19 PM One of my favorite missions in the original SC (single-player campaign) was like the second or third. Mission Conditions: "Survive for 30 minutes". First time I played that was sheer awesome. Yes. I made it first time through, but only barely. They'd busted through my defenses, were shredding my camp, and I'd backed into a corner and ringed off my units defensively just holding out for the timer. I only had a handful of units left when the timer clicked off. Ten years now and I still remember it vividly, heh. Second time I played it, it wasn't nearly as fun. Had enough stuff stacked up so that their final wave broke, and the timer ticked by with nothing left to fight. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Morat20 on May 23, 2007, 01:40:37 PM Yes. I made it first time through, but only barely. They'd busted through my defenses, were shredding my camp, and I'd backed into a corner and ringed off my units defensively just holding out for the timer. I only had a handful of units left when the timer clicked off. Ten years now and I still remember it vividly, heh. Second time I played it, it wasn't nearly as fun. Had enough stuff stacked up so that their final wave broke, and the timer ticked by with nothing left to fight. Same here. First time through I lost half the base, survived only by basically throwing down bunkers and contracting around the ore. If I hadn't been playing with spider mines right before the few waves, I wouldn't have made it at all. Ran through it last night (I'm replaying the single-player campaign -- never did finish it the first time around) and it was easy. A few bunkers at the choke points, an SCV to repair them between battles, long-distance ammo for the Marines and some towers. Lay down spider mines in the corridors near the end. Good stuff. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Strazos on May 23, 2007, 02:04:32 PM Heh, the AI still rapes me. I loaded up that Lost Temple map that everyone seems to love. I got hosed twice, though the second time I did actual attacks and stuff. Unfortunately, my marines/firebats backed up by medics get hosed by protoss defense cannons. I tried to take out the power crystals first, but well...the cannons 1-shot my infantry.
I still suck at this game. Also, I suck at being aggressive in this game. At the end, I still had a few thousand minerals left, though I thought I had build a sizeable army of 2 full marine groups, half a group of medics, some tanks, wraiths, valkeryies, and 1 battlecruiser. I got hosed by another terran AI who had all kinds of fully-upgraded units. Stupid vespene gas. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Kail on May 23, 2007, 03:10:12 PM Heh, the AI still rapes me. I loaded up that Lost Temple map that everyone seems to love. I got hosed twice, though the second time I did actual attacks and stuff. Unfortunately, my marines/firebats backed up by medics get hosed by protoss defense cannons. I tried to take out the power crystals first, but well...the cannons 1-shot my infantry. Yeah, ditto. Reinstalled last night, fired up some custom map. Got three bases going as the Zerg, figured that was pretty much an "I win" situation, but they kept irradiating my mutalisks (and whacking my guardians with valkyries) and hitting my ground troops with siege tanks (out of thirty zerglings, maybe six actually made it to the tanks). Eventually ran out of minerals in all three bases and quit. Aaaargh! Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Calantus on May 23, 2007, 05:29:37 PM Turtling is not a legitimate way to play RTS titles. There's a reason the end of most tech trees these days are instant win buttons. One of my favorite missions in the original SC (single-player campaign) was like the second or third. Mission Conditions: "Survive for 30 minutes". First time I played that was sheer awesome.Wasn't hard enough, but was awesome. I turtle by instinct too, behind impenetrable walls of Protoss defense cannons and build my mighty fleet. It sucks against other players, but it's fun as hell against two or three Zerg opponents. I'm replaying SC now and did that mission a couple days ago. What I did was throw waves of marines at the zerg and killed them all in 15 minutes and ate dinner while it counted down the extra 15 minutes. I just hate defending on SC, you get harassed from everywhere and have to react to what the enemy is doing. I prefer them reacting to what I'm doing, more control that way. Plus in that mission they throw like everything at you all at once near the end, but if you go on the offence you get to tear their armies down piecemeal. Mostly I just go for marine zerg until tanks and reavers hit the battlefield (cause then marines just die), just make 3-4 barracks and constantly pump out marines, sending a group off when they hit 10-12. I love me some tank stomp against the AI as well. All you need is something to handle air and something to see stealth and you just can't lose. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Morat20 on May 23, 2007, 08:23:20 PM I'm replaying SC now and did that mission a couple days ago. What I did was throw waves of marines at the zerg and killed them all in 15 minutes and ate dinner while it counted down the extra 15 minutes. I just hate defending on SC, you get harassed from everywhere and have to react to what the enemy is doing. I prefer them reacting to what I'm doing, more control that way. Plus in that mission they throw like everything at you all at once near the end, but if you go on the offence you get to tear their armies down piecemeal. Nah, double bunkers, some marines up high, and spider mines in the corridor and you're fine on that mission. I just had one where you had to resuce a downed battlecruiser. I overdefended the battelcruiser (I expected lots of attacks there, and I had one SCV -- got together two bunkers, a barracks, and some towers. Filled the bunkers and the area with marines and firebats.Mostly I just go for marine zerg until tanks and reavers hit the battlefield (cause then marines just die), just make 3-4 barracks and constantly pump out marines, sending a group off when they hit 10-12. I love me some tank stomp against the AI as well. All you need is something to handle air and something to see stealth and you just can't lose. Realized later that the map was full of zerg -- lots of AA stuff on all approaches to the downed cruiser, and you're supposed to get two dropships in there. I wasted a lot of money on wraiths as I was scouting around. Ended up using a ton of marrines to just blow a hole through the zerg AA and rushed in drop ships behind three sacrifice wraiths. Next mission was a bit more fun -- got to use leapfrogging seige tanks, backed by science vessels and enough Goliaths to handle the occasional Wraith. Even killed a Battlecruiser with the Goliaths. Leapfrogging seige tanks are too damn fun. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Samwise on May 24, 2007, 12:25:32 AM There is nothing more satisfying after hearing an hour's diatribe from a friend about how awesome he is at the game and how his battlecruiser army rolls over everything (including you if you were to take him on), than to finally play a game and lock down every single one of his "incinvible battlecruiser army" and kill them to a man. With marines. Replace "with marines" with "with one nuke". :-D Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Megrim on May 24, 2007, 01:55:17 AM Actually, ugh, Battlecruisers are the one unit in the game that survives a nuke.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Samwise on May 24, 2007, 08:50:36 AM Hm. They must have been slightly dented already the one time I saw someone pull that off. A squad of ghosts vs a fleet of cruisers... locked em all down in one spot and called in a nuke to clean them up. Le brilliant.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Morat20 on May 24, 2007, 10:08:49 AM Hm. They must have been slightly dented already the one time I saw someone pull that off. A squad of ghosts vs a fleet of cruisers... locked em all down in one spot and called in a nuke to clean them up. Le brilliant. I remember using an Arbiter to cloak a strike force once -- I had a forward tower and defensive positions, and it was obvious he was massing for a major assault and expected to be dealing with carriers and my turrets. I had two carriers and a pair of scouts there, to be sure. But mostly I had Zealots. He didn't expect the Zerg I had burrowed in right where a smart man would place his seige tanks. I destroyed about 2/3ds of his forces with cheap zerg units and a pair of lurkers. I cleaned up the rest with my carriers and Zealots, then razed two of his bases just for giggles. I love being Protoss. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Samwise on May 24, 2007, 11:35:58 AM Did you mind control a drone, or was this some freaky custom game?
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Morat20 on May 24, 2007, 11:54:06 AM Did you mind control a drone, or was this some freaky custom game? Controlled a drone. Managed to keep the little sucker a secret, too. Had a zerg creep and hatchery and a few other buildings in the far back of my original base, where his spies, scouts, comsats and whatnot never bothered going. I had a zerg base rather close to my original spawn point, and basically contained them until I could get mind control and snag a drone. It was worth the effort -- wouldn't have tried it on a serious game, but we were playing on a LAN and I got to hear the "WHAT THE FUCK?" when they popped up. I try to grab drones if possible -- if nothing else, the units you make using a MC drone take from your opponent's unit cap -- not yours. I always make the effort against NPCs (generally if I'm facing NPCs, it's or 2 or 3 per human player in the game -- mininum), but against other people the oppurtunity rarely arises, and is even more rarely worth doing. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Samwise on May 24, 2007, 12:09:52 PM Speaking of unit caps, another once-in-a-blue-moon trick I saw once (in a 2v2 game where one side severely outclassed the other) was to have one guy pump carriers and the other guy make a big DA army. The supply limit doesn't get checked when you mind-control something, so the carrier guy kept cranking them out and sending them over to the DA squad so his teammate could take them off his hands. By the end of it the mind-controller had something like 200 carriers (about 8x over the max supply limit). Suffice to say that when they finally attacked, the interceptors blotted out the sun.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: ahoythematey on May 24, 2007, 12:15:45 PM That's what I loved about starcraft at LAN's: no other game seems to produce so many shouts of "WHAT THE FUCK" and "Oh My God".
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Ironwood on May 24, 2007, 12:46:14 PM Supreme Commander did that, tho.
"What the fuck am I playing ?" "Oh My God, This is Fucking Lame." Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Morat20 on May 24, 2007, 01:15:37 PM Speaking of unit caps, another once-in-a-blue-moon trick I saw once (in a 2v2 game where one side severely outclassed the other) was to have one guy pump carriers and the other guy make a big DA army. The supply limit doesn't get checked when you mind-control something, so the carrier guy kept cranking them out and sending them over to the DA squad so his teammate could take them off his hands. By the end of it the mind-controller had something like 200 carriers (about 8x over the max supply limit). Suffice to say that when they finally attacked, the interceptors blotted out the sun. I remember my first Brood War game -- didn't play the campaign, didn't even really scan the new unit types. My friend and I just booted up a multiplayer map and went head-to-head with the usual number of opponents.First, the upgraded AI was a shock -- kicked our asses. Second, neither of us play Zerg -- so the new Zerg units did a number on us until we worked it out. Brood War was a good expansion. I became pretty fond of Valkeries when playing humans. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Megrim on May 24, 2007, 04:33:34 PM Hm. They must have been slightly dented already the one time I saw someone pull that off. A squad of ghosts vs a fleet of cruisers... locked em all down in one spot and called in a nuke to clean them up. Le brilliant. Ya, sorry, i didn't mean to sound snarky - just that it's always amused me how BCs can actually survive a direct hit. A nuke will do either 400 damage or 2/3's the life of a unit/building (whichever is greater), so the BC will survive with hp equal to it's armour (iirc default is 4); so one shot from pretty much anything will finish it off. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Miasma on May 24, 2007, 07:41:38 PM EB has already pulled a fictitious release date out of their asses. (http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product_id=647051) October first... 2008.
:hello_kitty: Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Strazos on May 24, 2007, 08:00:02 PM EBstop tends to love to assign arbitrary release dates in Q4. November is also pretty popular.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Simond on June 06, 2007, 04:12:23 PM Anyone seen this interview (http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=20192&type=mov&pl=game) with Mike Morhaime of Blizzard?
Point to ponder: Towards the end, where he's asked which Blizzard universe he prefers...look carefully at the 'Diablo' box. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Merusk on June 06, 2007, 08:06:57 PM Anyone seen this interview (http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=20192&type=mov&pl=game) with Mike Morhaime of Blizzard? Point to ponder: Towards the end, where he's asked which Blizzard universe he prefers...look carefully at the 'Diablo' box. I think I just heard Schild's joygasm from all the way in Kentucky. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: schild on June 06, 2007, 08:42:13 PM (http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6739/diablo3whatme8.png)
What. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Calantus on June 06, 2007, 09:10:55 PM Anyone seen this interview (http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=20192&type=mov&pl=game) with Mike Morhaime of Blizzard? Point to ponder: Towards the end, where he's asked which Blizzard universe he prefers...look carefully at the 'Diablo' box. You are a beautiful person. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Yegolev on June 07, 2007, 06:50:45 AM Foe? Toe?
Shop? Title: Re: Starcraft 2 annoucment on the 19th of May? Post by: Sky on June 07, 2007, 07:36:04 AM Any minute now Sky is going to show up with amusing pictures of WH40k characters in comic situations. I don't like Starcraft. RTS yucky. And I was too lazy to find WH40k marines in funny situations, it's not like they're Vader or anything. So have a guy in a Tron suit.THEN YOU'LL BE SORRY. (http://www.georgehernandez.com/h/aaBlog/2004/media/04-21_TronCostumeByJayMaynard.jpg) Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Merusk on June 07, 2007, 09:15:28 AM Foe? Toe? Shop? Doing so to a video interview hosted on gametrailers would be impressive. Unless you're saying that gametrailers itself did the job. That I could buy. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Yegolev on June 07, 2007, 12:45:53 PM I am just trying very hard to not get optimistic. I did mean someone may have "touched up" the pic before it was put in, but I'm really just lying to myself. Sssshhh!
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Ragnoros on June 08, 2007, 02:55:06 AM Damn forums need some sort of auto save feature. Another post to the abyss.
Anyway I have seen that Pic before of the D3 boxart last year either as a Hoax or just cause someone made and posted it somewhere. As to why it's there my guess is either A. Gametrailers is fucking with schild, or B. Someone at gametrailers wants it as bad as him. I'm sure they are working on D3 in some form tho. I remember hearing in a "leak" last year (GamingSteve maybe?) that it was a good way in but they scraped it due to it not being fun. Even if thats not ture I'm sure they have someone on it. I mean really how many people can it take to Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Megrim on June 14, 2007, 06:06:05 PM Update:
New gameplay movie apparently posted up on the official SC forums. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30MBljXxg3M) Features new Protoss units such as: - the Dark Carrier. Tempestuous by nature, it has been rumoured to possess a powerful anti-ground shield, but no innate anti-air defences. - the - Phase Cannon. The new and improved version of the regular cannon, now with the ability to teleport around onto any Pylon grid. Totally not imba. - Twilight Archon. Not the Dark Archon, and not the regular Archon, this is the new metrosexual archon, sensitive to the needs of the other player and at ease with it's role in the modern world. Also featured are a new, slimline Reaver (still as stupid apparently), some Assault Marines armed with flamers and a High Templar somewhere in the background, casting Stasis on a Bunker. * edit: Added the high definition version. (http://files.filefront.com/StarCraftII_PCGAMER_HDwmv/;7782062;;/fileinfo.html) Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Samwise on June 14, 2007, 11:38:11 PM What? No homicide crabs?
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Teleku on June 14, 2007, 11:46:32 PM Dang, they are adding in alot of new shit. Going to be interesting to see how they balance this.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Morat20 on June 15, 2007, 07:10:41 AM What? No homicide crabs? Are you talking about those pretty much defensless Zerg flyers that can obliderate ground targets from roughly halfway across the map? Jesus, I've had more than one game fucked over because three of those showed up when my air defenses were occupied elsewhere.Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Akkori on July 08, 2007, 09:03:18 AM I like crabs.
BTW, has anyone here read the Starcraft novels? I saw them yesterday and was tempted. I recognized a couple of the authors as having done quality stuff before. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: rk47 on July 08, 2007, 09:10:07 AM Against AI, it's simply turtle and go for mass air -- guardians/battlecruisers/carriers -- boring. no you don't. you send one worker. shoot on their workers. then run back to your base where the marines are waiting. they never fixed this till i quit IIRC. the computer will chase it round and round and round. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Kail on July 08, 2007, 10:43:52 AM BTW, has anyone here read the Starcraft novels? I saw them yesterday and was tempted. I recognized a couple of the authors as having done quality stuff before. I read some StarCraft novels, but that was like, five, six years ago? There were only two, and I read them both (Liberty's Crusade and Shadow of the Xel'Naga, I believe). And they were both completely fogettable. I guess there have been more of them published since, but really, I can count the number of excellent novels that I've read based on video games with one finger, and that's mostly just to give myself a margin of error. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Typhon on July 08, 2007, 05:21:10 PM ...on one finger! oh man, that was a perfect setup for a nose picking joke and you just let it pass. Where the hell is your commitment to comedy!? You dont' even care about comedy, do you?!
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Wolf on July 09, 2007, 06:49:59 AM BTW, has anyone here read the Starcraft novels? I saw them yesterday and was tempted. I recognized a couple of the authors as having done quality stuff before. I read some StarCraft novels, but that was like, five, six years ago? There were only two, and I read them both (Liberty's Crusade and Shadow of the Xel'Naga, I believe). And they were both completely fogettable. I guess there have been more of them published since, but really, I can count the number of excellent novels that I've read based on video games with one finger, and that's mostly just to give myself a margin of error. Liberty's Crusade was actually pretty decent. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Megrim on August 04, 2007, 07:14:50 AM Thread update, yesh yesh!
Blizzcon has predictably yielded some new information on everyone's favourite RTS. The main page at www.starcraft2.com (http://www.starcraft2.com) has been updated with unit information for the Terran race. Gameplay video can be found here (http://au.gamespot.com/video/939643/6176216/starcraft-ii-official-movie-4). Understandably, teamliquid.net is going berserk, so I've taken the liberty of shamelessly ripping the following link (http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=57389) (which contains a whole slew of stuff, including current 'toss and Terran tech-trees). There are a couple of live blogs running on their forums, they may be worth checking out for those who are interested. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Teleku on August 08, 2007, 08:32:34 PM I was quite happy to see that Blizzard decided to give the Terrans Valkyrie fighters (http://www.starcraft2.com/features/terran/index.xml?tab=viking) aparently:
(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8871/ss32ze4.jpg) (http://www.steelfalcon.com/Macross/Images/VF19kaigerwalk.gif) :heart: Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Simond on August 09, 2007, 04:08:26 AM They're even called 'Vikings'. ;)
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Teleku on August 10, 2007, 09:43:40 AM Yeah, I noticed that as well, heh. To bad the Terrans already had a Valkyrie space ship, which these ones are replacing apparently (if I read the lore right).
I'm really hoping the Terran super ship will be the Macross :evil: Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Teleku on September 12, 2007, 10:40:51 AM Just in case anybody cared, blizzard does a weekly question and answer batch on the starcraft 2 forums. Figured I'd post them here since there is some good info that isn't put up on the main site, and most people are probably to lazy to dig through battle.net/fansite forums for this:
Quote Batch 1 Also, Blizzard continues with the Macross/Robotech'ing of the Terrans: (http://www.starcraft2.com/features/terran/thor.xml)What is this: http://temporal.pr0.pl/varia/SC2/ss1-hires.jpg - http://temporal.pr0.pl/varia/SC2/addon2.png ? It appears to be a drop ship of some type maybe, can we comment on this unit? The unit seen is a building add-on, and well be revealing more on the Terran building upgrades in the future. What type of scripting language is being used? Aspiring map/mod makers would like to know. StarCraft IIs editor features a proprietary scripting language that is based largely on C with some special parameters specific to the game. Of course, for most users, they will have access to the more user friendly Trigger Editor which will allow beginner and intermediate map designers to make advanced maps without having to learn the particular details of the scripting language. Well release further information about the world editor as we move forward. Players have pointed out that the nuke laser dot graphic showing their destination is quite a bit larger and more noticeable than the original games. Is this a finished graphic and are we intending to make incoming nukes easier to spot now? In the announcement gameplay video the incoming nuke marker was shown as if launched by the player. To other players it will still be shown as a smaller dot very similar to the classic StarCraft nuke. The mothership time distortion doesn't seem to stop all incoming projectiles or fire, what exactly does it protect against? The Mothership time-slowing ability is intended to deal with all types of incoming attacks, although only incoming missiles were shown prominently in the announcement gameplay video. Game Balance The announcement gameplay video used more than a few tricks to show off each unit. The Mothership for instance was set to be indestructible for a good portion of the time it was on screen, as well as having additional energy so that we could display all of its special abilities in a shorter amount of time than would normally be possible. In addition to the multiple changes made just for the video, the gameplay in the video is not indicative at this time of what the final balance will be. The announcement gameplay video was showing off the game and units in the coolest way possible, and not necessarily in a way that would resemble an actual match. Game Speed As some of you may have seen in the developer panel held at the Worldwide Invitational after the announcement of StarCraft II, it was revealed that the gameplay in the announcement video was shown at Normal speed so that we could really showcase it and let everyone see the detail and work put into the game. There will still be the faster game speed settings many players are used to from the original game. Batch 2 Will players be able to select multiple buildings simultaneously? We are directing much attention to polishing and improving the user interface. On that note, players will definitely be able to select and build from multiple buildings at the same time. You cannot drag-select buildings, but you can shift-click on them and add them to a control-group for ease of unit production. Will workers auto-gather resources if the rally point is set to a mineral node or a geyser? Of course. Will we be able to select more than 12 units at the same time? Currently, unit selection is unlimited, but this may change with further development and testing. On a given map, will there be one Mothership per map or one Mothership unit per Protoss player allowed? We are still testing out many possible circumstances in order to make skirmishes more fun and challenging. At this time, each Protoss player will be able to have only one Mothership at a given time, but as mentioned, everything is still subject to change. Batch 3 What is the role of heroes in StarCraft II? Will they be the same as in StarCraft? StarCraft II campaign heroes will fulfill roles similar to what appeared in the original StarCraft single player experience, but they will have even more unique abilities from standard units, and will be more innovatively integrated into the story campaign. Heroes will not be buildable in multiplayer. What is the max unit count population for each faction? Unit population count for each faction will be very similar to the original StarCraft. Will there be an in-game option to change hotkeys around? Currently it is planned to have this feature, though much testing has yet to be done on it. We are looking into several innovative ways to make the UI customizable to players, to allow flexibility in their style of game play. Is Karunes Battle.net Forum Avatar a Protoss High Templar? Yes it is. Will the Robotics Facility have a similar upgrade to the Warp Gate allowing it to warp units in? There are no plans for this at the moment. Currently Warping technology is limited to the Warp Gate. Of course, we are still testing and balancing this, and nothing is set in stone. Batch 4 Are the yellow minerals shown in the trailers harvestable? Yes, they will be a harvestable high yield resource, meaning each harvest rotation will result in greater mineral quantities than the standard blue minerals. This gives players more strategic choices when trying to evaluate where they wish to expand. Expand to the high yield but risk easier discovery? Or expand to a safer area but earn fewer resources? Will resource sharing be allowed between allies? Yes, it is our plan to have this in the game, though there is still much testing and balancing revolving around this ability. Will allied chat be enabled by default for pre-set teams? Yes. Is the Zealot charge ability an upgrade as well? Yes, this ability is upgraded through the Protoss War Shrine. What types of future community updates will there be? Starcraft2.com will be updated with regular unit and building profiles. Furthermore, there are several projects in the works planned for the Blizzards RTS Community as a whole, which we will share at a later time. Batch 5 Will you be increasing the max players beyond 8? We are exploring this possibility, though currently it is defaulted to 8 max players. If you have multiple casters selected when you cast a spell, will they all cast it or only one? (ex. will 8 ghosts all use lockdown on a unit or only one?) Currently, unit abilities are set as smart casting, meaning when you have a group of casters selected, each time you wish to cast a spell, you will either have to click the icon or press the hot key and follow it with a click on the designated place on the map for it to cast. This will obviously prevent locking down a single unit with more than one ghost, though we are also still exploring possibilities to have different methods of casting for casters in which players would want to have multiple casts executed in a single command. Will building placement still be grid based? Building placement will be grid based. What races will be playable at BlizzCon? This will be revealed at BlizzCon! See ya there! Why do marines have shields now? The shields seen on marines in screenshots and videos are an upgrade that can be purchased through research, increasing the marines' overall hit points. Batch 6 Are Photon and Phase Cannons 2 different buildings? The Phase Cannon is the new version of the StarCraft Photon Cannon. There will not be a Photon Cannon in StarCraft II. Will carriers (Tempest) produce more than one drone type? Not at this time. Fans noticed in your art video that thye Colossus ground unit was under fire from missile turrets. Is this due to the Colossus's exceptionally high attack profile (tall stature) or a ground-to-ground attack feature/option for the turrets? Because of the Colossus's height, it will be susceptible to Anti Air defenses like the Terran Missile Turrets, as well as both ground and air attacks. It is possible for the Colossus to be hit by ground and air attacks at the same time. Will there be critters units and can they attack? There will be critters, but they wont attack. If they did they would be creeps. Will holding the Alt button show unit/building hit points overhead as they did in Warcraft 3? Yes, when holding the Alt button, all health bars of buildings and units on the screen will be displayed. This is an excellent way to quickly assess which units are healthy and which units are damaged. Batch 7 1) Will the look of the siege tank be changed for the final version? In response to much fan feedback, the siege tank has indeed been redesigned, with a much more powerful look to it. This visually redesigned siege tank will be shown at BlizzCon 2007. 2) Will there be a ctrl-a key stroke to select all your units on screen? Not at this moment, but the hot keys have not been finalized yet for StarCraft II. 3) Will we get to hear the return of some of the original melodic themes from SC1 (like the Terran themes), or will the music for StarCraft II be completely new? There will mostly be new epic theme songs with similarities to the original faction music. Music is still definitely in the works, thus we will not rule out a reprise of one of the original songs. 4) Will the High Templar still be able to create hallucinations? In the current version of StarCraft II, the Hallucination ability will be back, but not as a High Templar ability, but rather a Star Relic ability. 5) When will you release a StarCraft II Fan Site kit? The Fan Site Kit will be released around BlizzCon. —StarCraft II Q&A Batch 8— 1) Will there be upkeep in StarCraft II? No, there will not be. 2) What will be the highest number of upgrades for the shields, armor or weapons? Currently, the highest number of upgrades per weapon/armor/shield type will be 3, which is the same as the original StarCraft. The values of each upgrade will be determined through much balance testing. 3) Will the StarCraft II Editor be easy or hard to use? Blizzard game editors have always been aimed at empowering the community to create a huge variety of fun game modes and maps. This editor will be no different. The editor for StarCraft II will be very easy to use for new players to create their own custom maps and games. Furthermore, this editor will have many more scripting options available to players, to allow for even more player creativity in their maps beyond that seen in prior RTS titles such as Warcraft III. 4) Will the Zealot charge ability cause more damage on the initial attack than on all other attacks? No, the Zealot charge will close the distance between the Zealot and its target, which will be a significant advantage in many situations, compared to a Zealot without the upgrade, but will not actually give it more attack power or an initial stronger attack. 5) When selecting the Phase Prisms I noticed they have a 3rd, yellow meter below their shields and health. Is this meant to represent mana or storage capacity (warp-in capacity)? This bar represents the Phase Prisms storage capacity, as it also serves as an aerial transport unit. ---StarCraft II Q&A Batch 9--- 1) In the gameplay video the UI is toggled on/off several times. Will that be an option in-game? Currently, the UI will only toggle off during game cinematics. There are currently no plans to implement this for single-player or multiplayer as it would give some players an advantage over others. 2) Will the Twilight Archon have abilities? Yes. In the BlizzCon build, the Twilight Archon had the feedback ability. We are still doing much work on this unit, so none of this is final. 3) Can Protoss Units be attacked during the Warp-In process? Yes. When units are warping in, the unit will increase in hit points until they are at max hit points and at that point youll be able to control the unit. 4) Will there be some old units from StarCraft be included in the Map Editor for StarCraft II? There will be units included in the Map Editor which will not be in the standard multiplayer skirmish mode. These will include various units from the original StarCraft, such as the Protoss Dragoon. 5) Will different races have different max-squad caps? Currently all 3 races will have the same maximum population cap at 200. 6) Can the Planetary Fortress lift off? Once the Command Center has been upgraded to be a Planetary Fortress, it can no longer lift off. Furthermore, the Planetary Fortress cannot be changed back into a normal Command Center with lift off capabilities. Batch 10 1) What does the "Intercept Missiles" function of the Predator do exactly? The Predator is equipped with a point defense laser system which destroys incoming enemy projectiles. This ability makes the Predator an excellent support fighter to help defend slower capital ships, such as the Battlecruiser. 2) Can the Radar Tower also detect invisible units even in Fog of War? No. On the other hand, Sensor Arrays and Radar Towers do allow all Missile Turrets in its range to also detect invisible units within those Missile Turrets range. 3) Can the Thor defend itself against air units well? The Thor unit can attack air units, although it has a relatively slow rate of fire. It is always still better to escort your Thor units with additional support units. 4) Can the Thor be attacked by the Missile Turret like the Colossus? No. 5) Will phase cannons dissipate if they travel outside influence of pylon matrix? No, phase cannons will not be destroyed if they travel outside of pylon power. However, phase cannons caught outside of pylon power will still be able to move but will also be stuck in energy form. They cannot redeploy until they are back in range of pylon power. Also, while in energy form, phase cannons have no shields and are extremely vulnerable to enemy fire. 6) When a player in a team game leaves will the computer AI take over? Or, will the remaining players be given control of that person's team? Computer AI will not take over if your ally leaves in a team multiplayer game. Although, if you have allied control set, the player will be able to control their allys units after they leave. ---StarCraft II Q&A Batch 11--- 1) Will map sizes in StarCraft II be similar or larger than the maps in the original StarCraft? Map sizes can fluctuate on a per-map basis, but generally the playable area on maps are about the same. The terrain cells were converted over into the new editor to proportionally match the original StarCraft (i.e. 128x128 SC1 is about the same as 128x128 in SC2 ). 2) Will StarCraft II Heroes have unique abilities? Heroes will have unique abilities different from regular unit abilities. Heroes will be playable only for single player and will not be a part of the multiplayer skirmish experience. 3) Will the Terrans be weak to melee without the Firebat? Dont worry, the Terrans will have plenty of other counters to melee units. Nonetheless, because we know there are so many people who do love the Firebat unit, it will be in the map editor. 4) Will Mutalisks attack still hit multiple targets? Yes, the Zerg Mutalisk unit is currently designed to hit multiple units with a single attack. 5) Will a submerged supply depot still be able to be attacked? Will it have more hit points while submerged? Yes, the submerged supply depot will still be able to be attacked, and no it will not have more hit points. The ability to submerge a supply depot is designed to allow units to move over them strategically. Players will not only be able to keep enemies out, allow friendly units to pass through, but they are also powerful roadblocks in separating incoming armies in 2. ---StarCraft II Q&A Batch 12--- 1. How useful will tier 1 units be in the late game? (broodwar.de) As a staple of the original StarCraft, which we intend to carry over to StarCraft II, is that every unit has a specific role in that factions army. Every unit will fulfill a unique role, which complements the other units, some better than others of course. In subscribing to that idea, tier 1 units will be quite useful in late game as well as early. Many of the tier 1 units will be able to be upgraded to keep up with the later game units as well. For example, the Terran Marine currently has 3 upgrades available to it, as well as its standard attack and armor upgrades. New upgrades such as the combat shields, increasing the Marines health will be important in having the Marine deal with later game units. 2. Can we expect units to replace the Reaver and the Soul Hunter? (starcraftzone.com) Yes, we are always testing the addition of new units as well as the removal of older units. For instance, in our current build, the Terran Firebat is back in the game, as we test how he interacts with the new additions into StarCraft II. Of course, nothing is final though. 3. What was the reasoning behind axing spell X (lockdown, mind control etc)? (sclegacy.com) As mentioned above in question 2, much like with units, we are also testing several new abilities for StarCraft II. If these abilities do not work as we would intend, it is always possible for a reintroduction of original abilities from the original StarCraft. We are constantly striving to improve and complement what has already been very successful with StarCraft for StarCraft II. 4. Will there be a black player color? (starcraft-source.com) We have tried using black, but it was too difficult to differentiate units on the mini-map from the fog of war. 5. Will you be able to use custom army colors in the game? (teamliquid.net) In custom maps created through the Map Editor, players will be able to select any color for their factions. In multiplayer games, players will be able to choose between approximately 12-18 colors. (http://news.softpedia.com/images/news2/Starcraft-2-Update-New-Terran-Tank-Revealed-2.jpg) (http://www.robotech.com/images/content/MEC_15_1_7893.jpg) Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Trippy on September 12, 2007, 07:04:59 PM Also, Blizzard continues with the Macross/Robotech'ing of the Terrans: (http://www.starcraft2.com/features/terran/thor.xml) They've stolen about all they can from Games Workshop so they need other sources now.(http://news.softpedia.com/images/news2/Starcraft-2-Update-New-Terran-Tank-Revealed-2.jpg) (http://www.robotech.com/images/content/MEC_15_1_7893.jpg) Edit: typo Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Samwise on September 12, 2007, 07:20:41 PM Quote There will be critters, but they wont attack. If they did they would be creeps. This is the funniest thing I have read all day and I don't know why. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Abagadro on September 15, 2007, 10:38:21 PM Being able to macro buildings to all build at once is a great new feature. Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Megrim on September 16, 2007, 12:53:12 AM Yea, while there's been a whole bunch of whining from the "h4rdc0r3" crowd about that, truth be told it's a welcome change that's been a long time in the making. It will take away from the macro is some sense, but the added emphasis on early and mid-game skirmishing should balance it out nicely.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: Samwise on September 16, 2007, 12:44:15 PM I'm very pleased by any change that lets me spend my time thinking about big-picture strategy instead of watching a handful of egg timers.
Title: Re: StarCraft 2 announcement on the 19th of May Post by: MrHat on September 16, 2007, 01:49:07 PM Egg-timers.
What a fantastic idea. I never thought about it that way. Anyways, I just hope the DOTA All-Star guys do a conversion. |