f13.net

I think this would work out better to have a separate thread.  If you have watched the game or don't care you can post in here and otherwise avoid it.

Anyways, the first and last goals by Germany were seriously sick. I love the new ball although I wouldn't want to be a keeper. 

Poland looks like crap but it's not over yet.

It is now  :-D

2-0 Ecuador 89'th min in

Heh, second one off the post in the last 10 minutes of the game.

I like the English commentators because you get to hear things like "bulge the onion bag" and "denied by the woodwork."

The last goal by Germany was spectacular. Poland aren't looking bad at all - it was a much better match than the German debacle - Poland have had some misfortune, not least the beautiful left foot shot that went into the bar. Ecuador are remarkable however - this is a team that was crushed by Poland 3-0 in the friendlies. Changes the whole group. I still think Poland can beat Germany - where does THAT put us? They'll beat Costa Rica. No reason to think that Ecuador won't beat Costa Rica either. Even were Germany to beat Ecuador, its going to come down to goal difference, and Germany's defense is abysmal.

I thought Poland looked like they were asleep for the entire first half. They only really played a good 20 minutes (the last 20 minutes) but by then it was a bit late. They will have to bring it much better than that to have a shot against Germany.

The whole f13 communitiy had as many shots on goal in the first half as Poland did against Ecuador.

Hold your head up high, folks.

6-9-06 NEVER FORGET

(http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/5115/polandeagle6tw.gif)

See, I'm getting into this already.  If I had better mspaint skill, I'd add tears to the bird.

Maybe they could change their flag to a ball bouncing harmlessly away from a crossbar.

The real problem in this group remains the two goals against Germany. If Costa Rica can put two away with what wasn't particularly impressive play, Germany are in serious trouble. And it's not just an off day, a slow start, or, as Klinsmann put it 'a couple of mistakes'. Their whole defensive strategy is utter crap. Maybe its going to get them through the group - its more balanced than expected, but its all good news for England and Sweden.

The US studio presenters loved all the goal scoring though. More bad football please, they said. :)

That's nothing new.

What's a long touchdown pass or run, or a home run?

Someone screwed up.

ESPN has made a industry off of people not being able to do their job on defense.

Que?

Think about it, when somone breaks an 80 yard run, somebody missed an assignment or a tackle.

Most long completions are due to people not bing able to cover a reciever.

Most Home runs are caused by a pitcher throwing a bad one, like a hanging curve or a high breaking ball.

The result of those plays is a highlight reel making performance, for the team that took advantage of  the mistake.

HIghlights are what drive ESPN.

The bad rear line play for germany led to several breakaways,  one of which was actually offside, and netted the two goals.

The first goal in the match  was a result of the defender falling down and out of position, otherwise, that shot fires into a Tico defende'rs gut.

All of which are highlights, and  poor football.

Home runs... that's something in cricket, no?

My point was that rather than simply having a bad day, an off moment, a guy screwing up, an unlucky break, an error discovered in hindsight, and all the other perfectly valid reasons for ceding a goal, Germany gave away both goals because the team played amateur hour tactics.

Germany always plays with a huge ego. They probably thought 'Costa Rica, who cares...' and played sloppy. But when Germany gets neurotically competitive, that's when you have to look out. They tighten up quite a bit. I'm not talking about the current team, though, only my observations of many many world cups.

Ah, I agree with that.

Finally got home and watched the Germany game. I was going crazy all day trying to avoid my usual browsing habits of hitting up the English sports sites. Have the Poland one on DVR still to watch, but didn't care enough to avoid spoiling it.

Not much to add about the games... except for the commentary. The American guys commentating were pretty good. I was expecting some real idiots, but they did their research, and did themselves a favor by grabbing a veteran American player to offer real insight into the game. A few foibles like commenting on the amount of substitutions or the yellow card rule. But that's forgiveable considering their audience aren't as well informed about the sport as a whole.

But what really, really irked me... were the dumb, flashy NFL style graphics with swooshy noises. They took up way too much of the screen, and were totally useless. They presented the lineup of each team during open play, but it was rushed and didn't even mention the formations (4-4-2, 3-4-3?)or relative positions. It was sloppy, and I didn't like it at all.

Those shadows are really distracting.

Those swooshy noises drive me nuts, too.  I don't watch much ESPN but Righ says they do that during all the sports they show.  ARGH! 

England vs Paraguay is fun though. Roaring English crowd, preposterous German stadium, South American flair vs English know-how. Enjoying it.

Everyone knows that swooshing means ACTION!

Mine is on SBS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Broadcasting_Service) because only strange foreign people play soccer.

Maybe they should stick to flat packed furniture.

It'll probably just like in last World Cup: 0-2, then 0-4, then 3-1.


   

The Ivory Coast - Argentina match was good, although I think the announcers made too big of a deal about Argentina having never lost a World Cup match when up by at least one goal.  I also think I may have to fly to Germany and throttle the next one who states the obvious...."You really need to attack and apply pressure on the ball, while keeping the other team from scoring -- that's how you win."  No shit.  It's like when Madden says, "The team with the most points at the end of the game will be the winner."

Color commentay doesn't HAVE to be asnine to be color commentary.

We're talking about sports here.

In my case it means I'm swinging my hips too much.  There isn't much action there. :P

Is anyone besides me rooting for Trinidad?

Back to cricket(s).

It's always nice when an underdog has good fortune, but I want to see the best international football in the world. The only team that played a first class game today was Argentina. Lots of good individual performances (not least among England's players) but its team play that should win out. It was good team play that saw Trinidad draw against a team which boasts more star talent. All England need now is another sloppy win against Trinidad to progress. Hopefully Trinidad will frighten them into some team play, because otherwise England will be in big trouble in the next round.

Unfortunately England has heaps of stars, most of whom have egos that keep weighting them down. That tall streak of piss Crouch is a liability.

Is Crouch the one who was throwing up his hands when called on penalties and the like?  If I remember right, the announcers even commented on what a douche he was being.

Crouch is the ungodly tall, gangly striker.  He was getting quite abused in the box all game from what I saw.

(http://www.football365.com/mediastore/Story_Images/F365_Homepage/Lookalikes/crouchwalks.jpg)

He's the one what was carded for dissent. He's got heaps of talent, and the height to target long lobs to, but he's got to drop the attitude. The stupid thing was that even after he was carded, he still got mouthy with the ref. England does not need to be playing with 10 men. And he's no subsitute for Rooney in the attack. He's way too slow to respond, as Gamarra demonstrated by scoring (!) before Crouch had even left the ground.

He does a good robot though.

Watched the Germany and England games.

Crouch was being a twat, and there was really only one play where I saw him do anything other than throw up his arms and point his razor-sharp gob at the refs. That Paraguayan team was full of divers, Paedas the worst. Every time you turned around, the wind of a passing player had blown him over. I don't know dick about futbol, but damn England looked REAL SLOPPY. They just kind of ponced their way through the whole match, not really trying. Right near the end, Paraguay almost scored on them, which would have been real, real bad.

My non-HD feeds of ESPN and ABC are night and day. The ESPN feeds are crisp, the ABC ones muddy as fuck. One of the few times I've actually wanted HD. Though I thought the American announcers did a decent job, I'd have preferred to have at least one Brit, or better yet a Scotsman in the booth. I just love those wacky accents. And it would be nice if the announcer actually knew what a "geezer" was.

FIFA agrees with you. (http://www.google.com/url?q=http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx%3Ftype%3DfootballNews%26storyID%3D2006-06-11T160614Z_01_L11219332_RTRIDST_0_SPORT-SOCCER-WORLD-SHADOWS-UPDATE-1.XML&sa=X&oi=news&ct=result&cd=1)

It would, however, not be possible to close the ceilings. It's  awfully hot in germany right now, and those stadiums are not air conditioned,because they're normally used in the fall winter and spring, and are more for rain protection.

Ally McCoist or Andy Gray would be good picks. They're both somewhat known in the US due to their involvement in EA video games.

Argentina vs. Ivory Coast really was a great game. Argentina just outplayed them, but IVC had a lot of good chances. They just lost heart and couldn't find a way to hit Drogba. If they had played more like they did in the last 20 minutes, it would have been a lot closer. I'd love to see how they play against the lesser teams in their group. The announcers for that game were the WORST. I got really sick of one of them trying to come up with (bad) analogies to baseball or football to explain the situations in the game. Dipshits.

England was doing their normal crap. They're a great team, and I'll be cheering them to the end, but so often they just wander around listless waiting for someone else to do something. It's frustrating as all hell. Crouch is decent... but he's not going to be enough to break teams open in the later games. The rest of the team needs to wake up and make runs onto him, or around him if they keep relying on him. Owen too was a little out of it. I can't believe he botched that pass that Beckham dropped right into his stride in the box. Few more games, he'll be sharp. I'm optimistic. And Praguay? Man, FUCK them. Filthy shit divers.

Watching the Holland game now... Robben just scored the opener. NIIIICE. My dream final would be the Dutch and England.

So, I thought that my memory from 2002 was right about how scoring works...after seeing some of the scores, I guess my memory is wrong.

Do you not get points for goals?  Or is there some kind of strange point scheme? 

I thought there were points for wins, points for draws, but also points dependent on how many goals you scored.

After seeing that Ivory Coast has no points, I must assume that you only get points for goals if you win or draw?

Goal differential comes into play if there are ties in points at the end of round robin play.

The Mexico-Iran match was great. The header goal by Mexico in the second half was gold. Iran can go eat shit now.

I always enjoy watching Netherlands for some reason...maybe it is the retina-burning orange they usually wear.  Robben was a freaking dynamo.  Easily the best individual performance I have seen to this point.

England, Sweden and Poland all appear to be in deep shit.  Even if they all manage to get out of the first round, which I wouldn't bet on.

Please add Germany to the shit list. The way they played the last game was a farce.

We are going to win anyway.

Or at least play the final.

But you knew that already if you know anything about soccer.
 :-P

Well, of course Germany will be there for the final! 

But only because they're hosting the cup.   :-P :-P

My national side is about to play in a World Cup for the first time in 32 years ... there are people everywhere with green and gold flags, country is going nuts. Driving home now, then watching it with beer. Woot.

Australia 3 Japan 1

What a match! Best of the Cup so far. Hiddink looks like a genius with his subs and Cahill's second goal was a beauty. 3 goals in the final 8 minutes...wow. I hope this gets them  into the second round.

Just awesome. Pity it's 1:20am here on a Tuesday morning and only about 5 degrees celsius (very cold for us). I went outside to see if anyone was celebrating and it's silent - there will be parts of Sydney where everyone is going nuts though.

USA vs Czech Republic up next. Hope you Americans get some World Cup glory too.

Arrgh! I was catching up on the last few days of game comments and read too far- I have AUS v JAP on TiVo! I should have known better! I will still probably watch it (or FF through it), but now I can watch it AFTER the US game without fear of spoilers. Now I am panicking- I feel like I forgot to set my TiVo for USA, but I KNOW i did. Heh.

What a fun weekend! Mexico and Argentina were the best teams I saw over the weekend. England looked poor, Germany gave up 2 goals to Costa Rica (!), and Holland (other than Robben) looked lethargic.

I   :heart: Tommy Smyth. He is just far too fun to listen to; he really provides COLOR to the game.

I am nauseous with anticipation for the US game. World Cup fever, baby!

If you have to get wtfpwned, you want to get wtfpwned by quality goals like those.

Yikes, the US-Czech game is painful so far. 2-0.

Those were nice goals but were set up by atrocious defense. I'm amazed at the height difference between these two teams. The US looks like midgets out there.

Don't worry, all you need is the last eight minutes.

If you have a team with some heart, maybe.

3-nil and counting.

Fucking Beasley looks like a scared little kid out there. Take him off now and never let him back on.

First person to find a world class defensive wing or two  who could be a us citizen would probably be appreciated as well.

Absolutely fucking pathetic play.  Italy comes Saturday. God help us. I don't want us to finish behind Togo in the overal.

That was a complete utter disgrace. Absolutely disgusting. Obscene.

The Czech's were everything they were made out to be, very skilled, team oriented, and far more athletic than they were made out to be.

But they were completely beatable.

Had the US bothered to put anyone out on the pitch to play them.

Basically everyone but Eddie Johnson slept through the match. No energy. I saw players meandering around because they were too lazy to chase. Did a single pass connect? Landon, you're supposed to shoot the ball, not pass it back to the midfield. Did we have a defense? Oh yeah, they were the ones passing the ball back to Keller. Seriously, did we set a world record for the most passbacks to goal?

We always fold if they score on us first, but this was an all new low.

Is this 1998?

Absolutely disgraceful.

That were some nice goals. Rosicki is a fucking machine :)
I really hope Coller is ok, if there's a team I'm cheering for at this world cup (our slackers fucked up the quals... again) that would be the Czech. With Barosh hurt, if Coller was hurt badly, that would be really bad :(

Perhaps the US team will watch the match on TV back at camp, and learn that its not the best idea in the world to stand still and wait for the ball to be passed to you. I'm surprised that when the US actually managed to get a shot on goal that the Czech goalie wasn't caught reading a book.

The only consolation is that the Czech team did play well. perhaps Italy will fuck up, as they often do in group matches. But the US will need to play well enough to capitilze on that - and that wasn't there. Wake up.

I think the first round of matches have pretty much shown that THESE (http://www.soccerphile.com/soccerphile/news/fifa.html) were a joke.

And with the Italian game starting I'm sure we can look forward to Divefest 2006.

2-0 Azzuri.

US realistically needs a win on Saturday or it's over.

Fuck.

I'm assuming that the 'fuck' comes form the fact that Ghana were bloody unlucky to go down without getting a goal. They need to tether their keeper, and as expected, Italy still needs to get into their stide. However, I was seriously impressed with the quality of football from that young Ghanaian team. They were outclassed by an Italian side that was off their game, but nonetheless they put on some serious pressure and distinguished themselves as a very capable second string side, which is probably more than most people were expecting.

Good job by the Aussies! The Japanese goal was a farce, and it'll be talked about long after the contest is over. What a travesty, etc. When not being elbowed in the face, the Aussie goalie was in top form. He got a serious testing today. But those late goals - fine footwork in each one. First real upset of the tournament, but I knew that second place in this group was going to be tight.

Yes, The evils of Goal Differential.

Last 8 minutes of Australia vs Japan, from Australian TV: http://tinyurl.com/n9uze (174Mb download)

(general opinion is that the commentator isn't great, but the history of soccer in Australia means it's in the hands of a broadcaster called SBS that was set up to cater for ethnic minorities, so they are not exactly big budget)

No matter how bad it is, they are better than that fuckwit Shep Messing we had to listen to here in the States.

BTW our lives have turned into Lineage 2:

http://au.messages.yahoo.com/sports/world-cup/1358/
http://au.messages.yahoo.com/sports/world-cup/1502/

Heh heh - didnt even think of that.  Our squad could have run onto the field with machetes chasing the Japanese, and the Koreans would have been cheering us on every step of the way :)

Agreed. If the US plays as pathetically against Italy as they did against the Czhechs, write this Cup off. They looked like they'd never played socceer before this game. It was embarrassing. Rociscky was a fucking madman.

EDIT: I didn't finish watching the Ghana-Italy match, but Ghana played pretty damn well against a clearly better Italian team. The Ghana goalie needs to learn he isn't a field player. Every time the ball came near the goal, he was running out to get it.

Wow...sure am glad I spent my whole day in solitude to avoid being spoiled on the US match. That was easily the worst game I have ever seen them play- they even looked better with the 1990 group of misfits. The back line was getting abused by the Czech forwards, and our midfield and front did absolutely dick. As Numtini said, only Eddie Johnson looked like he cared (although Convey had a couple of moments of competence too). If Beasley plays the next game, he had better be on the left side where he is actually effective.

Sucks that the game with Ghana is going to be a consolation unless they find a way to beat Italy Saturday. If they show up, they do have a chance. They will have a better chance if 90% of the calls don't go Italy's way, which is what happened to Ghana. I have been favorably impressed by all the African teams so far- they all beat some more established sides to qualify, and they look like they belong. Unlike, say, the US.

To add insult to injury, my fucking retarded TiVo changed channels incorrectly, and I got 2 hours of fucking car racing instead of the Oz v Japan game, which sounds like it was a hell of a lot of fun to watch. Oh, then I got ganked by pirates in EVE. Was quite a lovely night.

Even if it was the British F1 Grand Prix, it wasn't much of a race. The most important parts of the Japan & Australia match are the 8 minutes at the end in the link above (which is good quality) , and the Japan foul, er goal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52zXFz-dYYA

Highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nvd7Cf1wHc

Watch John Aloisi's footwork on the third Australian goal. Superb.

]

To be fair, their goalie also kept the match from being a riot. He made so many important, spectacular saves. Got a little lost on the crosses, but that game could have EASILY been 5-0. I was really impressed with his performance.

Likewise the Japanese keeper. He made some great stops in the first half that crushed the Australian morale early on. But Guus Hiddink kept his reputation up as being a genius, and subbed on the exact players his team needed.

Thanks for the links! That keeper for Japan played his ass off- that game could have been 5-0 easily.

My thoughts on the cup so far:

Top Teams that have played (I haven't seen any of the Brazil game yet):
1. Argentina
2. Czech Republic
3. Portugal
4. Netherlands
5. Italy/Germany

re the US:
Gah that sucked, this whole Beasley thing is a real fucking mess.

Silver Lining?  We played the trap well, Keller should be motivated as hell next game, Donovan took the criticism in stride and should play more aggressively next game.  Oh and for once Reyna looked like he deserved the arm band.

The defense was suspect in '02 and they are worse in '06.  Of course ever since I heard Hejduk was injured (my favorite player by far from the '02 campaign) I was worried.  They lost another starter too although his name didn't mean much to me at the time.  When Pope is your best fullback you know you are fucked.

If they dont start Beasley (they shouldn't) it means we loose his speed getting back and he was instrumental in shutting down the few Czech attacks that we did mange to thwart.  Lewis all in all didn't play a terrible game but the mental lapse that led to the first goal was all him so he better get his shit together.  If they dont start the big guy or the 4th defender whose name was NEVER EVEN MENTIONED until he was subbed out I will be pleased.  I felt that the offense never established a good rhythm and overall they played like they were intimidated but I didn't think it was as bad as many seem to be saying.  I thought McBride, Johnson, Donovon when he actually touched the ball and Convey all showed tiny flashes of actual pro play.  Now if they can just pull their collective heads out of their asses and play some team soccer we just might stand a chance.

That is a pretty big fucking if.

At least France only got a draw, here's hoping for another world cup where les blue don't score a goal.

Oh man. The Brazilia - Croatia game was awesome. Could've gone either way. Best I've seen so far.

Ya, good game. Brazil didn't look as overpowering as they often do. What the hell is up with Ronaldo?

He is fat and old?

Brazil wasn't playing at 100%, that's for sure. I soooo wanted Croatia to punish them for it... They had their chances too.

Brazil has the smooth moves and looks like its lazy, but if you look at their well-placed passes, you see the skill behind what looks like care-free play.

They are extremely skilled a fun to watch. Kaka has a cannon. They did look lackadaisical today though.

Brazil will do just enough to win the group, and no more. Why wear themselves out? Unlike most teams, they have to play all the way to the final. :)

Australia (of the Japan pwning) is up against Brazil on Monday. We either have to beat them or Croatia to get through, so fuck it, let's beat Brazil.

I did that too. We were screaming nuts in here, afterwards I went outside and looked down the cold, quiet, dark street.

But then again, who's running into a suburban street like a goon in that temperature at that time of the morning.

Watching Spain destroy the Ukraine right now. cyas.

Here is an old match report (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wg9ox9F7Vw) to warm the cockles of your Aussie heart.

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41762000/jpg/_41762988_ronaldo203.jpg)

Hi, my name is Ronaldo. I'm a fat, squishy tube of a soccer player and I like to walk around the pitch the entire game. Why should I bother running at all? I also like to casually stroll back onto the pitch after halftime. It's because in the locker room, I spend the break eating 15 corndogs and a side of bacon, so pardon my tardiness. It takes awhile to wolf that all down sometimes.

What a fucking joke. He needs to be benched permanently for that display. Brazil essentially won with 10 players.

I was uplifted a bit to see their game not being as all-conquering as they were billed. Their reputation and expectations are obviously over-emphasized by the media, but their game had a lot of space in it to come back and beat their samba asses. I only say this because I want them to lose early on so England can cruise to the final.

There was one play where Ronaldinho nutmegged someone and passed to an onrushing defender in the box. That play, right there, was the epitomy of "the beautiful game". It's why Brazil is so exciting to watch, even when you want them to lose.

If you think England is cruising to anything you are delusional, I'm looking for the Soca Warriors to upset England tomorrow if they play another lazy 90 minutes.  I think they will get to Quarterfinals due to a pretty favorable setup but I expect Portugal/Argentina/Netherlands to beat the piss out of them at that point.

As for Brazil, dont forget Croatia is a solid team.  That will be the only time we see them tested until the round of 16 which is where the upset waits in the form of CzechR/Italy/USA(yea right).  At that time we will see if the coasting they have been doing is an intentional conservation of energy or not.  They are either going to suddenly kick into high gear and dominate or we could be in for a shocker.  Australia can't play soccer at the level required to even worry Brazil and Japan's defensive collapse was so pathetic I dont think I can even bring myself to take them seriously any more.  Which is a shame I think they have a great keeper and with their speed all over the field they can always eek out of scoring threat or three over the course of a game.

I understand national pride and all, but come on. England are only cruising for a bruising at the moment. I wish them well, but only if they play a good game of football. They need to stop flouncing around like primadonnas and start looking to use the whole pitch and start making team plays. If they play like they did in the first game, they deserve and will likely end up with nothing. Hoping that any good team fails so that England can win the cup while playing like shite isn't very realistic.

lol, I'm not even English.

But yes... they need to play well. On their day I think they can beat anyone. They're doing their normal crap of sputtering around, playing isolated games from each other. I hope they wake the hell up. If they don't, you're absolutely right they're going to go crashing out miserably.

I really like watching Brazil. Most of that stuff about them losing was tongue in cheek. But I am a little bitter towards them, mostly because of their "fans". American World Cup fever consists a bunch of frat boys buying "Brasil" warmup jackets because they're douchebag posers and want to seem cool and international. I want to punch them everytime I see one at the mall. The cool Brazilians are the ones I play with in the park, who solemnly nod a little everytime I tell them Ronaldo is an out of form fatass. And they tell me they wish they had defenders like Terry.

Wow, that Germany/Poland game was great. What a finish.

The ref certainly seemed to take a long time recognising offsides.  I emailed him and suggested he read about the rule here.

I felt sorry for the Polish team. Scratch that - I felt sorry for Artur Borac. I told you he was the man they needed in goal. If they only had ten other players with as much talent. I'd like to see the Celtic vs. DC United match on July 12th, but there's no individual ticket sales yet.

We got the worst coach ever  :cry:
The fucktard just blamed it on the players. He is going to need police protection when he gets home.
/goes to drink

Great call on that. He was superb! His defenders sold him short. They were STANDING there watching the cross come in when Neuville nipped in between them. I wouldn't call it sloppy defending or anything, just exhausted players who had given up on chasing the game and holding out for a draw instead. And they were punished for it.

I agree they were simply worn down by constant pressure. Germany should have put that crossbar rebound in 2 minutes earlier anyways which came on the end of some real nice play.

Ronaldo may have sucked in that game, but he will always be one of the best players ever. Ronaldinho's reason for existence: "I wanted to be just like him".

He scored eight goals in seven games in the 2002 World Cup (which Brazil won), which is almost as good as Pele. When Maradona got fat and struggled around the field, he still had bursts of brilliant goal scoring, so for a coach it could still be worth betting on a Ronaldo moment.

Oh, those Germans.  It looks like they are going to come out of that group with 9 points.  Looking like roses, but smelling like dog shit.  Not only are they boring too watch (in my opinion...something about their style of play has always rubbed me wrong), but they really are playing like shit.  Man, I really hope Ecuador kicks them in the teeth.

And those Polish guys just can't catch a break.  They play fairly solid, but the ball never seems to bounce their way.

And Spain...beating Ukraine 4 - 0?  Damn.  I didn't see that coming.  That puts Spain up near the top of the list as far as I am concerned,  because Ukraine is a decent team.

The central European teams get talked up too much. They are all seriously bad. Having seen Spain vs Ukraine last night i can safely way that Ukraine should just go home now if they are going to play like that. You are supposed to chase that bloody ball, not stare at it. The spaniards on the other hand i think had like, two, inaccurate passes the whole game. If they maintain their form throughout, i'm willing to bet there is a good chance of seeing them in the finals.

I was in the front row at the Sydney 2000 Olympics football final, Spain vs Cameroon. Spain played one of the dirtiest games I've seen, causing some nasty injuries and clearly diving many times. It was 2-0 Spain at half time, but due to playing so dirty they got down to 9 men and Cameroon brought it back to 2-2, then beat Spain on penalties. Justice was done.

Spain are always skilled, but I never want to cheer for them.

BTW are you guys seeing the three games per day, or only one per day? There only ever seems to be reaction to the third match. Due to time zone I'm usually watching the first two games and missing the third (and even that is a strain as they are all after midnight!).

That would be very eastern europe. Central Europe would be the Czech Republic and Poland. And Croatia if you ask them and not someone that can read a map. Speaking of reading maps, you should really try to learn doing that. It's awesome.

Agreed. Absolutely smashing. I was cheering for Germany, but I have to give the Polish some credit. They played pretty decent defense up until the last few minutes. Their backline really saved their bacon a few times when the midfielders just seemed to give up on D.

But that sub the Germans brought in (Okinodor?) was just crazy. The bursts of speed he put on were incredible, especially against tired defenders. The only reason Germany won that game was a tired defense.

All three games each day are televised. However, the first match starts at like 5:55 AM here on the West Coast, and the others from there- either too early, or smack dab in the middle of the work day. Since I have seen all the teams I wanted to see play at least one game, I am cutting back my TiVo consumption to 1 full game and maybe one fast forwarded through to see highlights.

The Germany v Poland game broke my heart. I am in a pool with a first prize of $1500+, and was tied for 2nd. I had Poland with the upset (and to win the group!), and now I am totally screwed. Also, my maternal grandfather was Polish, so I had some rooting interests anyway.

My buddy at work jokingly wondered if Germany would invade Poland again if they won. I was telling my wife (who is like a quarter German or something) about his comment, and she said' "Tell him that in our house, the Pole invades the German on a regular basis!". Damn my wife is cool  :-D

As for the number of games I watch, I barely have time to watch one game on the Tivo a night, and sometimes not even that. I'm Tivo'ing the matches of teams I have some interest in for the first group matches, like Germany, England, USA and Italy. I'll probably try to catch more of them once they are whittled down.

Oh i'm sorry, i didn't know you were Ukranian. Bad luck about that.

Or, you could contend that the only reason that Germany won that game was because nobody tried their defense, which is as sloppy as all hell. I get the feeling that Ecuador will beat them (or at least draw) and win the group. They just won 3-0 against the team Germany beat 4-2. I predicted Germany second in the group - I just didn't expect Ecuador to be so awesome, and Poland to be so lacklustre. England vs. Germany in the next round is still on.

Absolutely. Which is why I feel so justified in his derision. I mean, look at Zidane. One of the greatest players ever, and his game for France was lackluster. But he was trying. He might not have the touch or pace he used to, but he sure as hell wanted to be in that game. Ronaldo just wandered around like an arrogant ass.

Well the lions finally put it together for the last 10 minutes of the game. They need to get it together and finish or they will not do well in the next round.

I just sat through 83 minutes of boring crap from England against Trinidad & Tobago. They finally got it together in the final 7 and scored two goals, but they missed four or five easy scoring chances earlier, three of them screwed up by Peter Crouch, the others by Lampard. Sent me to sleep.

I was both excited, and nervous as hell whenever Rooney touched the ball. Sven was a little crazy to risk him so early... but hey, it worked. I could feel Fergusson's seething red face when Rooney was subbed in.

Lampard and Crouch were both terribly wasteful. Bad day for them. Especially Lampard, he's usually so good with those finishes. I have him on my short-list of Golden Boot winners with a bet amongst friends. If anyone cares, the other two are Klose and Robben.

And John Terry!!! HOLY SHIT! I love that man.

That was crap. Ugly football. Terry was impressive though, I'll agree there. Hell, at this point I could see a broken team like Germany beating them.

The best summary of the game (and the team in general) I've read:

"Expect the Germany-Ecuador game to end 17-16, as both teams try to throw the game for the right to meet this utter shambles of a side."

No, actually, I think he just knows how to read a map.

And since I've got a part-English background, I'd come into that last game rooting for England, but fuck me if I wasn't hoping that Trinidad would pull the upset by the time the match came towards the closing 20mins. England don't deserve that 2-0 scoreline after that game.

As for Brasil and Croatia the other night, again I ended up hoping for the Croats to at least draw. Brasil has skill but just looked lazy except for flashes of brilliance. Like when Ronaldinho was taking on 5 Croat defenders and pretty much beating them off. Agree that Ronaldo has put on about 100kg since the last cup, but hopefully he'll show us what he can do.
Not in the next game, though. :p

Oh, and fuck I wish the Aussies could have gotten Tunisia or the Saudis in their group. But I guess everyone's saying that...

Excellent. I had to Google out the source of that one. Nicely played, Scott Murray of The Guardian:

http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/minbymin/0,,1788265,00.html

I love the "I'm a big banana" uniforms the Swedish sport.  At least the Dutch orange is garish enough to be ironically stylish.

God Sweeden sucks I just watched the last 20min of the first half on lunch, THEY SUCK.  I've never seen an entire team be so anemic when it comes to finishing.  I hate that Aniken Skywalker looking asshole as well.  I'm hoping for a draw or a Sweeden loss then the Soca Warriors can get in with 4pts after beating Paraguay.

There's a fantastic non-goal in the second half. Paraguay goalie runs out, ball chipped over his head to an exposed goal, but the defender beats the striker. Sweden are playing a lot better in the second half, but so are Paraguay.

Heh, highly dramatic geography lessons aside, he knew exactly what i mean. The point is that there seems to be a lot of hype (or was) surrounding some of those teams, especially the Ukranians (they conceded no goals during qualifiers?), yet when they ome out onto the pitch to play all i can do is laugh. The commentator mentioned 'stage-fright' as a possible reason, since this is their first appearance, so i certainly hope they get their act together.

As far as us having to play Brazil... meh. I think it's probably better to have a hard match straight-up rather than meaner into the next round and THEN have to run into a brick wall. At least this way they will see it coming.

Yeah that was fun. More quotes from it (remember, these are from an England supporter, plus his responses to readers):

I love reading the Guardian minute-by-minute stuff for all types of sports - football, cricket (where they do over-by-over), rugby - they do some really funny stuff - I really recommend it.

Cricket!  I can't even remember the last time I slept through a cricket match.

His Name is David Odonkor. Klinsmann was flamed into next wednesday by the german "experts" because he chose Neiville and Odonkor over other players that had more experience (Odonkor has never played in the national team before). Odonkor is fast he can run the 100 meter in 10.3.

Part of Klinsmanns emotional outbreak after the win came from the fact that those two made the difference and enabled germany to win 1:0. Expect the geramn team to get better as the tournament progresses.

If england continues to play like they did before they will be easy prey to a competent opponent.

Anyone else think Ivory Coast has a legit chance at pulling the upset tomorrow?  I really want to think they do, Drogba is a beast.

The best ever Guardian Online commentary moment was in a cricket match.


http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/minbymin/0,,1788202,00.html

How did you get to "Oh, I see. He's from Ukraine" out of my post? Not pissy anymore, so I won't troll you - but seriously go look at a map of Europe. Ukraine is like 600,000 km2. Hard to miss.

o rly?
Central Europe = Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, (Austria), (Germany), (Liechtenstein - lolz)
Eastern Europe = Albania, Croatia, B&H, Macedonia, Serbia, Montenegro, Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine

Are you calling the Czech bad? 3-0 = czechmate! :P Not to mention, Germany is considered to be part of Central Europe by some.

(I'm Hungarian btw, proudly sucking at football since 1960. We DID (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aranycsapat) pwn it up in the 50s, though! I just have to stick up for the Czech, them being the only team from my region still in the game)


-- Z.

The Ukraine might not be the best at football, but they rock at painting Easter eggs!

(http://www.punahou.edu/acad/sanders/geometrypages/eggsUkraine.gif)

They are such girls!   :-P

Anyway, I don't care what anyone (even my husband) says.  England will win the cup and if they don't... someone else will!  So there.

Well Poland is out, so I need a new team.  Most of my non-Polish heritage is german, but I dunno about that.  Maybe England, David Beckham is almost as cute as Tom Brady but seems much sluttier.   :Love_Letters:

Actually, David Beckham is much cuter than Tom Brady, in a more girly way.  Sometimes he even wears a dress.  Anyway, don't you live in DC?  Are you required to be patriotic or something?  Why wouldn't you root for the home team, anyway?  Even Righ is sort of rooting for the US and he's a Scot.  I was born in the US but I LOVE LOVE LOVE the England team.  But, then, I don't live in DC.  Should we call homeland security on you?

I just meant who I was going to root for in the second round, when the US will presumable not. . . oh God the footsteps . . . USA! USA! USA! . . . getting closer . . . USA USA US;dlkgv0k>cxz4ins*-+

Yeah, it was pretty bad. I'm still trying to figure out why they subbed Rooney for Owen, instead of getting rid of that Crouch fucker. In two games, I've seen him miss all but one of his chances, bitch at a ref and get carded. It took that perfect shot from Beckham for him to remember how to head the ball. The whole crew just looked messy, like the USA until the last few minutes. Lampard appeared to be unable to hit the goal even if it were twice its normal size. That John Terry save was amazing.

The Cornell Glen fucker from T&T was one quick motherfucker, and T&T's defense seemed to be better than Germany's.

Is it just me, or have all the "little" teams like Triny and Ghana and Paraguay just looked like they were all playing for ties? It just seemed like none of them wanted to test the defenses of the supposedly superior teams, even when those defenses were fiddle-farting around like Germany or England?

Argentina is going to win the cup. They just had a crazy match.

I think I can officially state the best team in the tournament on current form are Argentina.

6-0 , it could have been more.

And its the most entertaining football on display too.

As an Englishman, watching that and comparing it to last nights performance from the England team, its simply disheartening how backward we are in terms of tactics and attitude.

On paper the England team is a match for anyone, the reality on a football pitch is we are still playing 1966 football, and everyone else has moved on forty years.

Yeah you just beat me to the post. Great goals! Argentina 6, Serbia Montenegro 0.

(edit) Netherlands vs Argentina on June 21 is going to be a big one.

If the Dutch win (as they should) I think the 6/21 game will mostly be about not getting anyone hurt for the second round.

*cough*  I fucking told you guys *endcough*

My new top 10:
1. Argentina
2. Czech Republic
3. Netherlands
4. Brazil
5. Spain
6. Italy
7. Ecuador
8. Germany
9. Portugal
10.England

That was a delight to read. I am happy to see that I am not the only one who thinks Crouch is nearly useless (I kept thinking of Righ calling him a 'long streak of piss', which was wonderfully accurate). Terry is a stud- he saved the game on more than 1 occasion. They looked slightly better than they did the first game...maybe they will figure it out by the knockout round. I would really like to see Rooney and Owen play together.

As fucking usual African squads get no fucking help from the ref's.  They could have and should have tied that game.  What a pity that the Ivory Coast wasn't in a different group as they surely would have advaned.

I haven't watched Argentina yet - but I wasn't worried about learning the result before I fire up the Tivo... I was guessing something similar would happen. Based on the disasterous but 'good enough to advance' performances of England and Germany, Argentina are through to the semi-final. Probably against Brazil.

Here's how history marks these teams: EVEN. Of 87 meetings, 33 have gone Argentina's way, 33 have gone Brazil's way. The rest were draws. Brazil has the upper hand in the World Cup, and they could just be playing their usual dull group game before unleashing the magic.

The Dutch completely underestimated the strength of the Cote d'Ivoire team and played a game that was lacking their opening match spirit. But who cares about the result of the presumably wonderful Argentina vs. Netherlands game? Like it matters who wins or loses - group D aren't going to put up a real challenge to either of them.

But the Dutch could get to meet the Argentinians again in the final...

Another thanks for posting the link to the minute by minute log.  Those are great, got me through a dull day at work.

As ever the media just about everwhere seems to have decided the outcome of the world cup already; however, I'll tell you something - Argentina probably won't win.

History is littered with the corpses of teams that peaked too soon. And if previous world cups in Europe or South America tell us anything the effect of such a massively partisan crowd at the business end of the competition can't be ignored. If Argentina or for that matter Brazil were to win, then I'd rate it as the greatest world cup achievement since 1958 - which was the last and only time a non-european side took the trophy in Europe (however, they had Pele, so you could argue they were cheating)


If I were a betting man I'd look for value in European teams. Germany (9.8), Netherlands (16.0), Italy (12.5) or Spain (12.0) look good, espeicially the dutch.

Most likely final I see as holland vs brazil. Holland to win.



(Odds are uk prices)

My current final four prediction looks like this:

Argentina
Czech Republic (although I really want to predict a Croatia upset in this slot, but I need to see more)
Germany (after loosing to Ecuador, beating England and beating Holland -the German side should get stronger as the tournament progresses)
Spain

I've got Germany vrs Argentina in the finals.

But all of that falls apart depending on how Spain, Brazil & Italy play judging them all from one game is just too hard esp. with the Brazilian side playing such an obvious going-through-the-motions game and still beating a quality team.

That would require Holland to beat Argentina outright in their last group match.

Are you sure don't mean Germany to meet Argentina in the QF?

Personally I don't see Germany losing to Ecuador, but I do see them beating Sweden in round 2, looking at my fixture list my Holland v Brazil final is out the window unless Holland do beat Argentina next match. I don't think they are ready to do that yet - I'm guessing a draw is likely.


 rest of my guesses....

Round 2

Germany v Sweden

England v Ecuador

Argentina v Mexico

Portugal v Holland

Italy v Austrailia

Brazil vs Czech Rep

France v Fuck knows

Spain v Switzerland


QF

Germany v Argentina   on penalties

England v Holland

Brazil v Spain

France v Italy

SF

Holland v Brazil

Germany v Italy

3rd place

Brazil v Italy

Final

Holland v Germany

Muahahahaha! That's jinxed half the teams in the tournament right there.

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=7157.msg192259#msg192259

Is Holland really that good this year? Traditionally they are fair to midlin. Certainly never a match for Germany or Brazil.

Holland have a good *enough* team to be capable of beating anyone, they always do, but this time the usual soap opera associated with the squad is abscent, normally by this point someone has walked out, gone home, and left half the squad fueding with the manager.

Also Germany is as good as home turf for the dutch, and of the good European sides they are the only side without an obvious flaw.

There are (imo) 7 teams capable of winning the competition. But Brazil & Argentina are too far from home, Germany lack a defence, Italy could have half the team arrested at any moment, England won't get started till faced with elimination - and then the manager will make crazy substitutions to stifle any creative play, and Spain, well, Spain is Spain, they'll do fine till the spotlight is on.

Holland are a young side with solid international class front to back, they'll take a while to get going, but if they bring the side together well enough in time for the quarter-finals I see them being a match for anyone.

I thought Van Persie had already started moaning about Robben hogging the ball? And thats just after the first match. By the semis they will be facing off with pistols at dawn. Holland wont win this tournament.

Uhm, this has never stopped them before. Why now? They're in football stadiums and high priced hotels, not roughing it in the bavarian hinterlands.

By "never stopped them before" I assume you mean never stopped any team with Pele in it in any year that was 1958. Which the only time that a non-European team has won in Europe.

Obviously the disadvantage is declining as more and more of the best South American players play in Europe, and as the training methods become more and more sophisticated. But doing this whole shebang in your home continent and climate is a big deal (and not least because when Brazil play a top european side the Brazilian fans will be outnumbered by at least 5 to 1). If Brazil or Argentina do win, it'll be the greatest world cup campaign for nearly 50 years is all.

Well the Czech v Ghana game today was a beauty, 2nd only to the Argentina game

So many defensive breakdowns on the Czechs part, I thought I was watching a replay of the US game.

Cech saaved that from being 5-0, easily.

And now it gets intersting for the Yanks. A draw doesn't kill them. Technically,  neither does a loss, but goal differential will make that an near impossibility.

Ghana looked strong.  The early goal is the key.

The US scored...sort of. USA! USA! USA!

Way to um...stand around and wait for the own goal. Strategery!

Well, McHead was going to put that ball in anyway. It was a perfect easy goal for him.

I thought the ref was tossing a lot of calls to Italy even before and the Mastroeni red was absolutely ridiculous. Lousy tackle, but not uncommon and the studs were very clearly down. If Italy hasn't gone ahead by the 70th minute, I'll be surprised if the ref doesn't hand them the game.

With one exception, the US is the team that I'm used to seeing. Donovan has to go though.

The de Rossi sending off was quite fair. That was pure thuggery. The Mastroeni tackle was late, but it was a yellow at worst. Total "evening up" call by the idiot ref. Pathetic.

Italy is playing horribly, USA is better, but Italy's second goal was valid.

And the takle was a sure red. You know, there are rules, if you takle without taking the ball with BOTH feet you are out. It's not an "opinion".

From what I've seen, it's more guidelines than rules.

 :evil:

Er, no. The "second goal" was "scored" by an offside player. Run back the Tivo, its plain as day.

The tackle wasn't even slightly red, and that's not a rule in football.

I didn't think there was even going to be a yellow, but I could understand that.  The red card, however, shocked me!  That ref needs a spanking.

2 reds for the USA. Any doubt about the ref?

Uhm..

I didn't see this last one.

Anyway. The player on the second goal wasn't in offside. Not even in line since there's another USA player closer to the camera ahead of every other Italy player.

The "always red" are the takle on the front with both feet, takle from behind and when you stop the action as a "last man".

Btw, if the ref gave him a yellow card he was still out since he had already one.

This is horseshit. What the hell is up with this Italian team?  You breathe on them and it's like they've been shot by sniper fire.  The ref is eating it all up too.

20 fouls on the US, 7 on Italy. 

And this last offside wasn't there as well.

No. Dangerous tackles with the studs up are certain red cards.

Which is what happened in that situation..

Another offside that wasn't there.

This isn't a play-by-play thread.

I'm sure you'll agree with the (valid) offside on the second USA "goal". I smell partisanship.

I didn't see it actually, I didn't even understood what caused it.

People here said there was someone disturbing the gatekeeper but I have no clue.

And for God's sake. Even this one at 26' wasn't an offside.

Yes, the goalkeeper's view was obscured by an offside player. No goal. Correct call (by the linesman for the ref). Now the ref gives a bad yellow card call on Italy. He's useless.

I have not seen the first US game, but it looks like they are seriously playing and actually trying to win.

But there are way to many italian players on the field now.

Good luck.

Watching the Wikipedia page for Jorge Larrionda (the ref) update is amusing too (check the history page for some of the screamers):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Larrionda

HRose looks so cute when he tries to defend the stinking Azzuri. :)

Now,  let's root for them against the Czechs. I hope we play with that type of heart we saw today against Ghana.

From The Guardian's wrap up of the US/Italy match:

Actually I'm fairly neutral.

In this case Italy played an awful match and USA did much better than expected, they were extremely aggressive.

On the other side I think that the ref did some big mistakes. Most of the offsides were wrong (this is not even the fault of the ref), the first yellow card on Totti was wrong (he arrived on the ball). Then the expulsions were fair on both sides, imho.

So bad match for Italy, decent enough for the USA, and the ref did many mistakes but I don't think he has favored Italy at all.

And I think at the end it was a 9 vs 9? Did the italian player who got hurt came back?

The spanish paper El Pais is calling the game 'Corage Yanqui', or Yankee Courage. This is very rare, since El Pais is the 'socialist' paper and rarely has anything good to say about the US. They were very impressed with the US stamina and morale during a tough fight.

Now, I'm going to ask you a serious question here and I want an honest answer.




Are you fucking retarded?

Edit: As for impressions of the match, the US was lucky to come away with a tie.  Italy had a lot of opportunities toward the end of the match.  And yes, the reffing was horrible (even the Italian commentator they brought in thought it was bad).  At worst it should have been 10 on 10. 

Edit #2: Meant "tie." 

I may have posted this before, but under the circumstances: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccDyp2aRRCg

Seeing as how Italy scored all the goals, yes I would say the US was quite lucky.

I skipped all this shit but here is my unbiased opinion of this bullshit.

1- The red card to Mastroeni was utter bullshit.  Nobody in their right mind would say otherwise.
2- The US did have some very favorable looking offside's bail them out I counted 2 that looked onsides and one that was 50/50.  But claiming that the one was "Italy's second goal" is stupid.  Keller stopped because the whistle blew.  I think one of the linesmen was trying to make up for the shithead ref.
3- The first card on Pope was questionable, the 2nd was warrented.
4- Italy is still the fucking lamest team in the world cup.  The fact that not one card was given for diving is atrocious, throw in a super dirty play and I had half a mind to head down to North Beach and start tossing bricks...   :x
5- Beasley's goal should have been called back, it isn't exactly a given but I dont dispute the call.
6- Italy was outplayed until the final ~15min when everyone was so tired that nobody could do anything but defend and hope to last to the final whistle.

It is a real fucking shame that the US only now shows up, it is an even bigger shame we now should root for Italy.  But it doesn't matter, despite the great showing today I have little hope for them to beat a strong Ghana squad without Pope.  I did see a lot of great things from some of their players.

Beasley still sucks if you ask me, that disallowed goal will get him back in the lineup but I dont think he deserves a spot, Johnson is a better player.  People talking shit about Donovan are crazy as fuck, he is by far our best player.  The drama will be high as both games to finish the group happen simultaneously we are setting up two TV's in a friend's living room...

In the end the US lost the game for themselves, the play on that free kick was so stupid it hurts my head.  Also Arena really needs to do a better job teaching his players how fouls work in the world cup.  The free kick came from a bonehead fucking play that was not necessary.  Trying to play the ball through a man will always result in a dive-foul if the other player wants it to.  I saw far too many stupid challenges and tackles that is really my only complaint about the way they played.

At least it finally looks like we belong, here is hoping we can play a strong game against Ghana and let the chips fall where they may.

P.S.  Fuck Italy

P.P.S.  No Italians were harmed in the making of this post (unfortunately)

The refereeing in the game was atrocious in all regards. Everyone has already summed it up, but really... send that jackass and his linesmen home.

The offside was very valid after I watched the replays, I thought. Not only was McBride kind of obstructing the goalkeeper's view, but he moved his leg up and out of the way of the ball a bit, thereby interfering (by not interfering) with the play. Very unlucky, but it seemed valid. Beasley could have had more chances if he'd have just, you know, sprinted around. He spent too much time holding play for his tired teammates to catch up. I think he could have had several chances to just run circles around the tired Italian defense, but didn't feel like it. A shame, really.

I watched the Argentina game and was stunned by the fluidity of it. This team scares me more than any other. They were unstoppable. Can't wait to see how Holland do against them. I love how both teams have attacking formations. 3-5-2 for Argentina, and 3-4-3 for Holland. Good stuff, makes for great viewing and exciting football. The two of them together could be THE game of the tournament.

Just watched Japan and Croatia play to a disappointing draw. I didn't think Japan did particularly well, and they had a lot of passes up the field to noone in particular, especially towards the end. The Croats played as a team of individuals, and not especially well either. I can't believe they're the same team that played so hard against Brazil the other night.

Next: Brazil vs Australia.

 :nda:

Half Time. 0-0.

I'm so glad that Brazil is playing that Fat Fuck Ronaldo tonight. He's fucked up everything that's come near him.

To be fair, he was truly great. OTOH, he's not all that anymore.

Yeah Japan vs Croatia was boring.

I'm so happy that Australia has made it to half-time at nil all, but I have a continuing sense of dread about the fact we're playing Brazil. Go Guus!

Best moment was when Ronaldo was yellow carded for kicking the ball into the goal long after the whistle had already blown for offside. Followed closely by the Bresciano shot near the end of the half. The Aussies are damn fit from all that training - Viduka said the other day it felt like they were going to war, the amount of tough training they had to do. Can see why.

2-0 Brazil. Kewell blew it, had an open goal and blasted it over the top instead of tapping it in. He blew it a few other times, too. Brazil was always likely to win it, but we also lost it. And the referee was a bitch.

I didn't find the ref to be especially bad. Problem was that despite all of the ability to open up the Brazilian defenders and create chances we still couldn't finish. That open goal from Kewell right after he came on was a shocker, but then again the Brazilians also had a few unlucky shots, especially right at the end.

Ah well, a Draw vs Croatia is all we need. I'm expecting a bloody game from that one.

I recall reading that part of the reason why Ronaldo is going down hill soccer wise is that he's spending a lot of time gaming instead.  :lol:

The Australia game was just... uuuuugh. They absolutely need to do something about Viduka. I mean i understand he is a "world class striker" and all, but seriously, come on. People say Ronaldo is fat (which he is, lolz) but having watched Viduka dead-balling the play everytime the ball went anywhere near him, not being able to even turn quickly or let alone keep pace with Kewell to play a break away just makes me rage. So many wasted chanses  :cry:

Australia were intimidated, but that happens to supposedly better teams who face Brazil too. It's the result that everybody expected, however, and a two goal defeat to Brazil never looks too bad. Brazil still aren't looking as dangerous as they could be later.

Japan played too cautious a game, and Croatia just played a poor game with some good individual performances. Apparently they've been watching England.

France against Korea was interesting. Bad call on the second French goal, and the foolish fouls that resulted in cardings are going to cost them heavily in the next game. And while France were penalised by a goal by the poor call, the Koreans were just unlucky.

Just wanted to point out that another part of the guardian's fantastic world cup coverage is their daily podcast -> http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/worldcupshow/0,,1791676,00.html - a great 30 minute summary of each day's games, commentary on how rubbish England are playing, and making childish jokes about Togo's coach's name, Otto Pfister.

Let me guess it has something to do with fists?

Pfister is an old german dialect variety of baker btw.

Otto?  Otto parts?



/plate of shrimp

The wife and I watched the Italian game. Now that's what the US is supposed to look like, competitive. I know little about soccer, but the ref just sucked it. There were way too many cards tossed in that game, especially reds. I was under the impression red cards were supposed to be rare? Not to him. I actually think that overall there's been a few too many cards in the games I've watched, but as the US announcers kept saying, FIFA wanted to crack down on tugging and pulling. I think they'll back off from that next time or hopefully in the next round. I'm really cheering for the Italian team against the Czechs, since even if the US is eliminated, I'll have to root for Italy because my wife is Italian.

I thought the Aussie/Brazil game was a good one. Ronaldo... this guy is supposed to be great? He certainly didn't look it there. I thought Adriano was a much better player in that game than either Ronaldo or Ronaldhino. The Aussies were a tough match.

Quick group rundown:

A)  This group is done but the Ecuador v Germany game for 1st place will be mighty interesting.  Germany's defense can't afford to half-ass this game but many have predicted that Germany would get stronger as the tourny progressed and so far I believe that has born out.  But now is the time for the German side to step up if they want me to believe they will be in the hunt for the championship.

B)  What should have been a decent group turned into such shit.  England's woeful play is eclipsed only by that of Sweden, whoever advances in 2nd will be a free win for the winner of Group A's match.  Can England actually beat the 2nd place team from A though?  I have no idea, when your only offense is Beckham hitting people in the head with well-struck balls you are in trouble.  Have any of their other stars done anything?  I may have been asleep as I haven't been able to remain awake through 90minutes of English play.

C)  One of the two "groups of death" Argentina versus Netherlands should be the best game of the group phase.  Deep down everyone expects them to choke at some point but while they play like this they are damn near unstoppable.  What a shame that Africa's two top teams (Ghana and Ivory Coast) were both put in tremendously hard groups...

D)  This group has truly underachieved but nobody has noticed due to so many other pathetic groups in this years world cup.  Portugal has immense individual talent but can't play like a team to save their lives.  I've seen a dog employ more strategy while taking a shit then this team has in their two games so far.  It still may be enough to top a Jekyll and Hyde Mexican side.  If they score first they are dangerous but if you put them down a goal it seems their confidence goes out the window.  They are the antithesis of the solid fundamentally sound European squads.  Whichever way first and second place turn out in this group I expect group C to sweep D in the round of 16.  It is unfortunate really as both Mexico and Portugal have some very fun players to watch.

E)  With the monster bias of American media coverage (have they managed to block a goal with some stupid graphic of the group E standings yet?) I dont see any reason to talk about this one.

F)  Somehow Croatia will only have to play one decent game to advance, beat the socceroo's and its welcome to the round of eight.  What an underperforming team we have here, even the Swiss managed to put some goals in against a weaker opponent.  Japan is a huge dissapointment as well.  I love their keeper but nothing else about them can even be called solid.  The aussies deserve to advance they have played harder the other two but really it doesn't matter.  First place out of group E should be able to handle their opponent without much trouble.  Brazil may be headed for an upset though the current Brazil team sure looks like they could find a way to loose against a Czech or Italian side that brought their A game.

G)  This is fun, we're down to the last game and France could be eliminated.  It will not happen though I'm afraid my fellow France-haters.  Togo just doesn't seem to have the talent needed to compete at this level.  But suddenly South Korea versus Switzerland has become a surprising must-watch game.  The winner should be able to book tickets to the round of 8 (a great accomplishment for either squad) after laying the smack down on whatevever team accidently comes in 2nd in group H...  France versus Spain should be the type of game that preps one of those two teams to make a legitimate run for the finals.  Or it will be a crappy game where one team falls into a win.  Here's hoping for the former.

H)  So Spain and some other guys (who might as well be named losers A, B & C) played a set of matches, and we didn't find anything out.  Does anyone actually have a sense of how good Spain is?  I sure as hell dont.  Hopefully somebody pulls themselves out of the depths of mediocrity in a hurry.  Any of these three teams if playing in top form should be able to legitmately challenge the Swiss/Korean winner for a shot at becoming the cinderella story of the tournament.  That is unless somehow the US advances...   

England might actually end up losing to Sweden. That would put Sweden on 7 points, and England on 6. But the chances are England are going to top their miserable group, and they have deep pockets of talent, so they could upset the second place team from group A, thus Germany and Ecuador have to play to win. Unless Sweden and England pick their games up, Ecuador will get through the following round too.

More than anywhere else, the outcomes of groups C & D shouldn't matter. Nobody in group D stands much of a chance against Argentina or the Netherlands. If Portugal beats Mexico by two goals more than Angola beats Iran, Angola are going through in second place, so group D isn't a sure thing yet.

Group E is wide open, but watch Italy play for a scoreless draw. Probably an interesting game only for the fortunes of the USA and Ghana. Could see fireworks if Ghana are ahead at half-time though. Bizarre stuff could yet happen in group F (Brazil resting their talent lose to Japan, Australia win by three goals), but realistically it just comes down to the Australia vs Croatia game.

Group G is great, after France beats Togo, it'll look like second place in the group for them, the winner coming from the Switzerland vs Korea game. But wait... even if France wins, a draw between Switzerland and Korea will put them out on goal difference (and Switzerland will win the group). Watching now? The Ukraine just recovered some of the talent that brought them to this cup, making group H more of a threat. Spain are in great form, though they haven't really been tested by a solid midfield.

Wow- big weekend. The Czech Ghana game was a joy to watch. I am seriously impressed with all the African teams this year; every one of them is dangerous enough to beat someone on a given day (haven't seen Tunisia yet, so I am not sure about them). Both teams lost a few players for their 3rd games due to yellow card accumulations. FIFA needs to tone that crap down a bit.

US v Italy. Wanted to vomit after Italy's goal. When the hell is the US central defense going to learn to mark people right in front of the goddamned goal?? Own goal was useful, but I think US had a nice chance to score regardless. The de Rossi red card was completely warranted- that was as ugly and deliberate an attempt to injure as I have seen recently. The Mastroeni red was a fucking joke- probably deserved a yellow, but a red was a complete and utter overreaction and an obvious attempt to even the sides up. The Pope 2nd yellow (red) was probably a good call too- Pope can't put himself into that situation when the referee is handing out cards like escort pimps on Las Vegas Blvd. Beasley's goal was a good call too- McBride was definitely offsides. Keller played a fantastic game in goal- he saved our ass a few times when the defense was too exhausted to cover any longer. I still can't figure out for the life of me why Arena didn't use his last sub- stick Eddie Johnson in for McBride with 10 minutes to go and let him and Beasley run circles around the tired Azzuri defense! I think we missed an opportunity to win the game there.

France got totally screwed against Korea. That 2nd goal was EASILY in- I called it with my naked eye live as it happened. Really disappointed to see Zidane get a 2nd yellow to keep him out of their next match (see above- FIFA needs to chill on the yellows by about 30%). He is a pleasure to watch, even if he is a step or 2 slower than his prime.

Problem with Sweden is that all of our 3 world class players are under performing. If you've watched some of the Swedish games you've probably noticed that the team dominates the play, but can't seem to get the ball into the net. Zlatan Ibrahimovic which dominated the last World Cup is held back by what's called an injury, which apparently is true according to his most recent diagnosis. Henrik Larsson is also under performing, and even if Fredrik Ljungberg did score the last game and saved Sweden, he has been mediocre at best. Sweden hasn't lost to England in like 30 years or something like that, so the statically the odds are in Swedens favor. However, going by most recent performances of the both teams England has a clear advantage.

@Righ:  nice backup with some nifty possible outcomes.  I agree with you about Group D but you can never be sure.  Mexico scoring first is ALWAYS super dangerous (they score in bunches and play some great football with the lead) and Portugal has loads of talent if they actually remember this is a team game.

Spain sure played well against adversity in the first half of the Tunisia game.  They just could not get anything on net and I saw no frustration or desperation at all in their play.  It remained smart disciplined and deadly.  I didn't see the second half but I'm guessing eventually they got rid of their jinx and blew the African side out.  We could be looking at a contender here, a France v Spain game should really propel one of them towards the finals if that is how it plays out.

Really I would love to take the rest of this week off very interesting games all over, but instead I will only be catching the Group E games live on Thursday, woe is me and shit.  I can't bring myself to think about the Sweden v England game.  Zlatan Ibrahimovic's play alone makes me feel sick let alone the other 21 men who will be on the field esp that stork-like motherfucker Crouch, god I hate him.

Crouch is getting rested, along with Gerrard. Owen and Rooney will start, with Hargreaves in front of the back 4 to push Lampard up.

I'm hoping this will wake the team up. Without Crouch around, they won't get distracted playing the long ball. Owen and Rooney will focus and force them to come up from the ground, through the midfield. You know... the midfield. Where all of Englands best players are. Fancy that, actually USING it.

Some past Ronaldo:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6929277165700686790

A quick one (poor quality, but you can see the magic):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbsNCokH5oU

That's not the man I saw. The man I saw must have eaten that man.

You know what I love about those videos. I love how he just rides tackles instead of diving. I've always respected the Brazilians to just keep slogging on through tackles where teams like Italy or Paraguay (hell... nearly any South American team) would just petulantly dive to the ground. Good show Brazil.

This always happens. A stellar footballer from [insert Brazil or Argentina here] joins Barcelona FC, plays amazingly for 4 years, then turns into a tired mule of a man. Happened to Maradona, happened to this guy, we can only hope it won't happen to Ronaldinho.

England playing a little more as a team vs Sweden, however indvidually not that well (Rooney and maybe Carragher excepted so far) - and losing Owen is a fucking catastrophe. Twisted knee apparently.

Happliy Sweden are incapable of hitting a proper dead ball.

Cole goal was a thing of beauty. Rooney has been spectacular. That's probably the last we'll see of Owen this World Cup - that looked bad. At least England have a handy excuse if they lose to Ecuador now.

Guardian live commentary link for current match if anyone forgot it:
http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/minbymin/0,,1788366,00.html

:)

http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/minbymin/0,,1788361,00.html


 :-D  Thanks for the reminder Tale, real shame that Paraguay scored.  Can't take anything away from Sancho though he played great in the Soca Warrior's first two games.

2-2

At this point I have no idea what Fat Frank is actually for. Playing 4-3-2 probably isn't a good strategy.

Ashley Cole really needs to learn to defend.

Hargreaves, Terry, and Carragher did well.

Thank heavens for Steven Fucking Gerrard.

Two fine goals for England. Sorry Sweden, two crap goals for Sweden. Comedy defense, and how do you play a five man midfield and get dominated by the Swedes? Can these guys really pull it off against Ecuador? I have to say, I actually have faith in a Germany win next round against Sweden. .

I don't think you can count Frank Lampard as a midfielder. Or a footballer. That was a four man midfield.

Unless you are counting Steven Gerrard twice.

This just in from Wife News :  English Commentators Suck Ass.

 :roll:

Fixed that.

imo it's not sky or other pay-tv outfits who should be banned from listed sporting events, it's ITV. (adverts in the middle of a grand prix ffs etc)

TV on mute + Radio 5 commentary ftw.

GOD DAMN ASHLEY COLE!!!

He spent most of the match passing to the Swedes, or fluffing crosses across the box.

Then when it really counts, when a dangerous ball bounces into the middle of the box, he decides to take several steps away from the ball and hide behind Robinson's shoulder, lest the ball scuff his shiny new head. And Larsson decided, well shit... I can't let such a fine gift go untaken. WHAMO.

Joe Cole's volley was incredible. I could watch that all day.

American commentators suck ass even harder.  They should get Murray Walker to commentate.  At least that would be a good laugh.

As I assume it is being treated over there like Barbaro was over here with 15 minute updates, what's the word on Owen?

He's dead to me.

Scan on his knee today - expectation is that it will confirm he's out of the tournament.

EDIT: Cruciate ligament injury - out for 5 months. Fans of Newcastle reported to be mildly wailing and gnashing teeth.

Um, No.  Not in this case.  The hype and bias that comes through during an England match is verging on the fucking hysterical.

Of course, it's actually Hysterical when Henrik puts one in at the 90 minute mark.

Fuckers.

Watched the Argies play the Dutch. Some good football there, but way too cautious on both sides, and it was a bit of a snorefest. Should have watched the other game. Thank goodness for DVRs.

Courtesy of a link on the Guardian blogs, I discovered this accurate depiction of Glasgow football:

(http://www.nosebleedpress.com/314rangersfanssite.jpg)

Holy Crap, Crouch was even more worthless against Sweden than in the other games. I've seen him make two good plays in 3 games, and yet they still keep sticking him in there. That Owen thing looked bad. Joe Cole... damn, that boy was playing. Rooney had a good game, IMO, especially for a guy with a month layoff. But that 2nd Swedish goal... what the fuck was that? It looked like none of the English defenders wanted to touch the ball. To be scored on like that on a throw-in is just bush league.

Germany, however, looked deadly.

To be fair on Sven (why?), they've pretty much run out of strikers that don't need wheelchairs or white sticks. At least he provides some comic relief as he trips over the ball or his own legs repeatedly.

Chances of USA squeeking out tomorrow? I don't give them much hope against Ghana. It'll be close, but Ghana will edge them out. I'm expecting it to be a great game. Both teams have great fighting spirit, and never tire or give up. But Ghana are so good at keeping the ball, it's going to be hard to upset them.

As much as I loathe them, I think Italy will beat the Czechs. The Czech defense seemed terrible when faced with a zestful attack (something the US could not provide against them in their opener). But they have Baros back... will he be enough to keep them alive? I doubt it. Should be a fun end to the group, but I'm calling Ghana and Italy to make it out alive.

If Italy lose, and the Ghana-US game goes to any result that kicks Italy out due to Goal Difference, expect cry-baby whining and conspiracy theories for MONTHS from those fuckers.

Brazil are through easily in their group, and I think Australia will be confident and quick enough to top Croatia as well. Which is nice for them, they totally deserve to go through.

God that would make my decade if that happened. Then we could joke for years about Italy paying off the wrong officials.

I think there's everything for the USA to play for - the team has shown that they have the ability to beat a team as good as Ghana. They just have to beleive that themselves, and play as spirited a game as they did against Italy. That won't guarantee them a win, but its the only way they stand a chance to get one.

Yes, and he seems to be saving Theo Walcott, the 17 year old he has never seen play before he was picked for this tournament, and who couldnt get into the first team squad at Arsenal this year (and oddly enough whos Arsenal chairman was at squad selection time a senior member of the FA) as some sort of 'secret weapon'.

However, I find it most odd they spent 3 days training and developing tactics that revolved around Rooney and Owen upfront, playing the ball to feet and using both players skill and speed, then , 1 minute in after Owen's injury, having a choice of putting Walcott on, as a direct replacement for Owen , and Crouch, which entailed changing tactics and to an extent shape completely to accomodate him, Sven chose Crouch.

The revelation that the Swede managing the Swedish team gets paid in a year what the Swede managing the England team gets paid in a week sort of sums up why England are perrenial underacheivers.
In a game where heart can be the difference between success and failure, they put all their trust in cash.

You also have to believe that the US team is bound to actually make a few shots on goal in this game, and that perhaps even a couple of them will roll in.  The laws of probability must be on their side.

Meanwhile, the Argentina vs. Holland game - which on paper could have been a fabulously entertaining match - was so boring that I nearly fell asleep.  I mean, they weren't playing for much, but jesus criminy.

If they were training to play back-to-goal pass-to-feet football then Crouch would have been the perfect selection for Gerrard, Rooney and even Lampard to run on to. Owen and Walcott you need be playing into space and have the strikers running off the defender's shoulder, the whole set up with them would have to be more counter-attacking and it never quite works when your team are favourites.

Contrary to popular assumption, Crouch is good on the ground, average in the air, excellent at keeping the ball and holding play, but a bit slow. Lazy journalists make other assumptions simply because he is 9 foot tall.

England's overuse of the long ball is down to the fact that Beckham has been making poor pass selections, Cole keeps running down blind alleys and running out of other options(albeit in a very exciting manner), while Lampard is doing nothing whatsoever other than the occasional pass back to the opposing keeper. At the moment only Hargreaves, Gerrard, and Lennon (as well as Carragher and Terry in defence) seem to understand how to play the simple ball without losing possesion.

Judging on current form alone England should play...

-----------------------Crouch---------------
------------Rooney------------------------
JCole-------------Gerrard----------Lennon
--------------Hargreaves---------------------
Bridge----Terry-----Carragher----Neville
-------------Robinson-----------------------

But based on the fact that Sven appears to consider Beckham, Rooney, Owen, Gerrard, Lampard, Ashely Cole, Terry, Ferdinand and Neville to undroppable when fit, my realistic hope for the lineup is.....

--------------Rooney-------------------
JCole-------Gerrrard-------Beckham
--------------Hargreaves--------------
ACole-----Terry----Ferdinand--Neville
-------------Robinson-----------------

.... Lampard will also be on the pitch but I haven't put him in the formation as on current form he won't actually do anything so there is no point considering where he will stand while making no contribution. To be fair to him, this formation may help him play better.

You are probably right on the team likely to play.
I thought lennon was the reason they beat T&T myself, sure , Rooney lifted moral when he appeared, lennon did the work though.

Despite the criticism he got in previous matches, i thought Hargreaves was probably Englands best player during the first half against Sweden, certainly on a par with J Cole at least.

Id still like to see them play 4-5-1 , with cole, gerrard, hargreaves ,beckham and lennon accross the midfield.

Th eone thing I do find incredulous is after 4 years, the manager still hasnt accepted gerrard and lampard are incapable of playing effectively as a midfield pair.

It's not funny because it's true.

I've decided to turn to Satanism to try and help England win the cup.  I will also not be shaving my legs until they return home, victorious.  (http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smilies/sports/soccer.gif)

Neither will I.

The screw job on the US continues with that rediculous PK call. Although both goals were created by horrific play along the back line.  Do those guys not know how to clear a freaking ball?

I can't remember an international series with as much horrible reffing as this cup. Regardless of which way it goes, play has been about surviving the referees. That's exactly what they're not supposed to be doing.

Have all the refs always been this bad?  Or do they wait for the Cup to show us their dark side?   :|

They've always been this bad. Actually it's FIFA's fault - they choose the World Cup to put on the 'greatest' display of refereeing. Which means that FIFA tells the refs to card at every available opportunity, to reinterpret the rules of footbal in ways no players (or referees) are familiar with, etc. So then it comes as no great surprise when the referees fuck up more often.

It adds to the drama, you see.

Also, I like the Czechs, but fuck 'em. Italia is in!

By the end of the match, I didn't even care who the foul was against, I was so tired of hearing the whistle I could have screamed.

Did the US deserve to advance? Probably not. Donovan was a complete no show. And we frittered away a lot of very good chances. And Ghana definitely played and played and played.

But the players in the last two games were secondary to the refs in terms of the outcome. And that's just leaves a really really bad taste in the mouth.

Italy. You'll sound like Strazos if you write English with Italian affectations, and we'll point and laugh.

The US lost the game, bad ref call or not. Ghana played fairly well, but they were clearly a beatable side that made plenty of their own mistakes. The US defense was horrible, and there were so many squandered opportunities in their midfield play. The problem is that half of the US will now stop watching as the football gets better, and too much blame will be ascribed to the refs. Bruce Arena has done a damned good job getting the US to where they are today and deserves everybody's respect, but its probably time for some fresh blood in the coaching camp. There's a lot of young talent in the US, and it needs to be converted into a great team by the next Cup.

I think the US should send a squadron of lawyers to sue FiFa for that penalty. We can't win by football, but by god, we know our lawyerin! Ok, just kidding.

I'm rooting for Brazil in Brazil vs Ghana tho. Still, I think Argentina's gonna win this one. Dutch wunderteam or not.

Amen. It would be nice to see a major sporting event where the referees are largely invisible due to their competence. Although at this point competence would stick out like a sore thumb. The PK call was laughably bad.

The US didn't play their best game by any stretch. The ball Reyna gave away was just godawful- this is our CAPTAIN?? However, I would have liked to see how the game progressed if Ghana hadn't had the lead giftwrapped for them. They likely would have played the 2nd half very differently, especially with Italy only holding a 1 goal lead (at the time).

Good for Ghana though. I am glad to see one of the African sides go through- most of them played pretty well this Cup. I will be rooting for them against Brazil (fat lot of good that it will do).

Go England and Holland!! And go Argentina, I guess, since I picked them to win it (not sure if it was here or not).

The US is not ready for prime-time.

They had the skills/speed/strength as individuals to beat almost any team in the field but they never played with the type of strategy or inteligence required to succeed at the international level.  They also played flat as fuck for the vast majority of group play.

Yes, its clear that the US now has the depth of talent to compete strongly on the world stage. Probably several times over given who they took, and who they left behind. That said, the selection was arguable, the team failed to capitalise on opportunities, and they made far too many mistakes. Despite what he's brought to the team, inviting Arena back at this stage would just be foolish.

Jesus some of you people sound like Mavericks fans.

Edit- Erci Wynalda is as much of a whiny bitch as an analyst as he was as a player.

Why, because we don't want to see the same coach for three tournaments in a row? Even if the USA won the damned final there would be a case for changing the coach. It's hardly a "lose one game, cry for coach blood" reaction.

For me, there is currently only one game going: Australia vs Croatia. However,
JAPAN IS LEADING BRAZIL 1-0!

(edit) I must put in a good word for the Guardian's Australia vs Croatia commentary, however. I have laughed out loud several times thanks to Scott Murray's wit (http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/minbymin/0,,1788392,00.html).

I'm part Italian, but, you know, feel free to fuck off.

As for the effing, I mean, reffing. It's a mixed bag really. I for one would like to see a video ref put in to just fuck all of these controversial descisions right off. Something should be a penalty? make it so. Something should not be a penalty? nope, override. Handball to score a goal? (Hand of God) nope.

It'd also cut down a little on the fake diving and so on. The problem there is consistancy, when you compare the card-confetti from FIFA's quad-annual "tough on crime" spree to the various leagues the players play in there's a world of difference. The "new ball" that we seem to see especially for every World Cup does noone any favours, either imo...

 

The Guardian has had some good stuff, are they only doing this for the World Cup or do they always have minute-by-minute commentray during the season?

Not sure, but they definitely do online commentary for international cricket matches. Scott Murray is also involved in that.

Where do they get these fucking refs? That's 2 times now that there were pretty blatant penalties against Croatia, but the Ref is seemingly blind...

That was a pretty damned good game between Australia and Croatia. Despite being down twice, the Aussies brought a tough determination to bear. After the second Australian goal, the Croatians just turned into thugs. Had I been the ref, I'd have red carded four of the buggers - not least the two that manhandled him.

And the Aussies are thru!!!!!!!!! :thumbs_up:

Gotta love Australia's relationship with the referee though...  :mob:

I should preface this with "woot! we're through to the second round!". But I'm feeling pretty drained - that game was just WIERD.

If you get two yellow cards, you are automatically sent off (equivalent to red card). But Simunic was given two yellow cards and the referee forgot to send him off. He started walking off, then realised the referee forgot, and nobody else on the field realised. Then at the end, he practically assaulted the referee and became the only man in history to get THREE yellow cards :)

Final comment from the Guardian's Scott Murray sums it up (referee's name is Graham Poll).


At the start, a Croatian player jumped onto Viduka in the box and wrestled him to the ground, a clear penalty, but the referee ignored it. There was also a blatant handball in the box by Croatia in the second half that should have been a penalty - Croatian player visibly punched the ball out to stop Australia, and the ref missed that too. My team won through to the next round, so this is not sour grapes, but that was the worst refereeing I've seen in a World Cup game.

I love the english...  :-D

Wooo!!!!!!!!!!

Still high about Australia making it through,

Australia did well overall but we seriously lack finishing ability...

The amount of chances squandered is just madness... 59% possession at the halftime...

The way we play right now we have no chance to beat Italy...

Although Italy did well at beating a 10 man Czech team

Yeah, I'm part Italian, too, (my mother was born in Abruzzi) but if wandered around New Jersy talking about "Roma" and "Italia", even the Sopranos would point and laugh at me.

Oh and... GoGoAustralia!  Very odd last few minutes with Croatia, though.

I'd like to see more matches where the players get to be the stars of the game, and not the umpires.

It's true, Australia is very weak on finishes, on the other hand, I could see Australia pulling one out of their arses against Italy.. either a last-minute rally as we've seen before, or more likely 0-0 and the luck of the penalty shoot-out after extra time.

Lygon St is going to be interesting next week.


I didn't realise that posting on an internet message board was akin to wandering around New Jersey, but to let you know, that if I walked down Lygon St or Carlton talking about "Italia" going through to the next round, noone would look at me edgewise or give a shit, outside of agreeing with me. The world is bigger than your own little slice of it.

Australia could crush the Italy that drew agast the USA. If they put on another miserable performance like that, its a stroll into the the quarter-finals. Frankly, looking at the possible match-ups, Australia could even make it to the semis now (probably to then meet Argentina).

Add to that -

Calling fulltime as the ball was literally crossing the line for a third Australian goal, yet still slightly under the 3 minutes of added time. Which he didn't announce until nearly 2 minutes in.
Not having the balls to send off the Croats who were busily shoving him, as Righ pointed out. I've never seen a ref let players put their hands on him before with no recourse.
The second Australian goal which was scored while we were offside.
2 balls on the pitch at once at the very end.

It's good to have gone through, but there really needs to be something done about the refereeing.. I'd hope that this dickhead never sees another World Cup again, but then again, the Uruguayan ref we had in the first game against Japan had been suspended previously to this cup (and he allowed the foul on Schwartzer that resulted in Japan's gioal). Uruguayan ref for the first Australia game. Good fuckin' choice that was.

Life is good. I've got the day off so I don't have to rush to work like everyone else is currently doing, and now I get to watch the Brazil game over breakfast.

I never really understand why Graham Poll gets these gigs amoung the English League Refs.

Most of the time he is a decent referee, but he's always had a habit of just losing control of a game once every few months and having to send off a whole bunch of players as a result.

As regards the penalties I thought Viduka had a stone cold penalty denied in the first half when he was rugby tackled, the actual handball penalty given was harsh but cancelled out against the second half stone cold handball not given.

I also don't understand how the Croatian who pushed Poll stayed on the pitch.

On the point the Guardian guy made about the yellow card after full time, referees have always been allowed to give yellow cards after the final whistle, though forgeting to check if the guy had already been booked before the second one was of course beyond comical. And technically blowing the whistle as soon as time runs out is correct even if the ball is heading into the goal. It's also stupid ofc.


Austrailia were good tonight but ultimately they remain a mid-table premiership side and I don't see them scoring against Italy. Currently you can get 6.2 on Austrailia in the second round - tbh that seems fair.

I don't know about harsh. Tomas was pretty blatantly playing a different form of football to the rest of the players on the field going by the way he was blatantly punching the ball there. Twice.

And going by the clock on my TV screen, the one that starts counting the moment the ref blows the whistle to start, there was still a good 15-20 seconds left. Which would have been even a little longer if you added the time he spent arguing with the Croats when there were 2 balls on the pitch. Have to agree (again) with the pushing thing though. That was just bizarre.

I don't think anyone was objecting to the yellow after full-time (though the ref did blow full-time twice, once before and once after the yellow).

There were three minutes of extra time. But when he blew for full-time just as the third Australian goal was crossing the line, the TV coverage clock (at least) still showed a few seconds to go. The fact he blew full-time again afterwards suggests this might have been another error.

And while Australia "shouldn't" beat Italy, it all comes down to how both sides play. Italy were shit against the USA, if they play like that again and the Australians can come up with enough heart and arse, again, it could happen.

It wouldn't be the first upset from this tournament, after all. Czech, anyone?

I dont agree with this at all, the Italian side looked fine against the US they got jobbed on 2 offsides calls (possibly three) and Keller had to make some good saves to keep that game at 1-1.  Don't forget the US goal was flukey as hell, and McBride was clearly offsides on the Beasley no-goal.  I hate Italy more then any other team in the world cup but they are a top-notch squad when they put their mind to it.

Also, the socceroo's look and often play like thugs at least judging from the Brazil and Japan games I saw.  Combine that with Italy's penchant for the art of diving and I expect them to pick up a great deal of nicely placed freekicks outside the box if not a PK or two.  I see the chance of an upset as quite slim.

If I had to pick upset specials in the round of 16 so far I would take:
Netherlands - Portugal, if Portugal can play like they did versus Mexico.  Which means like soccer is a team sport, while they have their superstars in the lineup they could be dangerous against a Dutch side that I just can't figure out.
England - Ecuador, assuming that Beckham can't bounce the ball of Crouch's stupid ugly head to take advantage of the smallest non-asian team in the cup they may have offensive troubles (or was that just because I most recently saw them against the German geneticaly engineered giants?).  Ecuador's speed + lazy/stupid English defending could equal GOOL!@!!

I just can't see underperforming Sweden beating a German side that has been building a scary head of steam with each match so far.  Likewise Ghana without Essien(sp?) just doesn't have the talent to match Brazil's scoring ability.  Argentina would have to choke and choke hard to loose to Mexico unless the Tricolors can score first and go into crazy-confident mode, also is Borchetti out for the whole tourny?  Somehow I missed the update on his injury.

I don't think it's quite fair to say Australia play like thugs, when you have Croatia pushing the referee and wrestling opponents to the ground. Japan started the "Australia play dirty" thing as a tactic in their pre-match press conference, then dived all over the place to convince the referee (who bought it at first, then realised what was going on). Brazil also ran with it in their press conference because it obviously rattled Viduka, then also dived everywhere. As a big guy, Viduka in particular was put under pressure because he wasn't allowed to breathe next to a defender without the whistle blowing.

As a result, Australia had more fouls against them than any other side, but most observers thought the team didn't deserve it. There were two or three definite bad challenges that I'm embarrassed about, including some studs to the shin at the start of the Brazil game for which I think an Australian should have been sent off, but we didn't get any red cards until the Croatia game, and that was for a handball.

With the USA out and Australia into the round of 16, this guy is a laughing stock: "Australia is only in the world cup to make up the numbers." - Bruce Arena, USA Coach, 2006

Italy may be top notch when they put their mind to it, but they didn't put their mind to it in the match with the US. The American team was mentally there, and the Azzuri weren't. Where the US went today, well, that's another story. And why does Beasley get to start, anyway? Never mind his assist today, which was quite nice -- the rest of the time, he was a lump on the field.

On the other hand, if I had to pick one thing to send the US back to school for, it's passing. The percentage of passes that reached target and were then controlled to within a foot of the player was pathetic in all the matches. I got tired of balls going yards away from anyone. In the end, that's what kept Ghana alive -- the US had a lot of chances that they just completely failed to capitalize on.

For the record, I am a sports fan for only around 1 week every four years. :)

Was the US really ranked 5th in the world by FIFA? Why? I thought the consensus was that they were expected to suck and had no world-class players.

Yes, the USA was ranked 5th in the world based on results in their best seven FIFA recognised matches each year in the last eight years. A couple of wins in the CONCACAF Gold Cup, loads of goals scored, and the political inability of FIFA to apply reasonable regional weightings resulted in the USA being ranked 5th alongside Spain. Similarly, Mexico are ranked 4th due in large part to their CONCACAF performance. The USA and Mexico are hugely dominant in their region. They could mark down the value of wins in this region, but the silly method of picking the best seven matches would still screw up rankings. They're going to replace the system this year. With another system thats entirety daft, no doubt.

The CONCACAF competition - the biggest threats being countries not recently destabilised by CIA/DEA operations or engulfed in lava and which have a population high enough to field a football team without running out of people to run the airport:

Anguilla
Antigua and Barbuda
Aruba
Bahamas
Barbados
Belize
Bermuda
British Virgin Islands
Canada
Cayman Islands
Costa Rica
Cuba
Dominica
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
French Guiana
Grenada
Guadeloupe
Guatemala
Guyana
Haiti
Honduras
Jamaica
Martinique
Mexico
Montserrat
Netherlands Antilles
Nicaragua
Panama
Puerto Rico
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint-Martin
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Sint Maarten
Surinam
Trinidad and Tobago
Turks and Caicos Islands
U.S. Virgin Islands
U.S.A.

English press is giving hell to referee Poll's three-card trick (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002390000-2006280832,00.html).

(http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2006281598,00.gif)

And this (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rugby2zc.jpg) is apparently not a penalty ... *cough*

(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6351/rugby2zc.jpg)

Just shows how thuggish those Aussies are, right?

I never realised that the US qualifying region was so harsh. It reminded me of the Oceana region, actually. Well, except that the Oceana region doesn't have 2 places permanently held for Australia and, um, New Zealand like CONCACAF has for the US and Mexico.

On a brighter note, reading that list made me want to play Sid Meier's Pirates! again sometime.

Love the pics, Tale. Do you have a higher-res one of the bear hug? I'd like to use it as my desktop.



 

And from a slightly higher-quality paper then The Sun

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,28749-2240171,00.html (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,28749-2240171,00.html)


The Beeb

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5108722.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5108722.stm)

Sorry it was just an imageshack upload (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rugby2zc.jpg) someone posted on Whirlpool (http://whirlpool.net.au).

Got some more quality British press re Mr Poll (remember this is from people who usually hate Australia). The Guardian says:
Three bookings for one player: Poll loses the plot (http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/story/0,,1804177,00.html)
Defrock these pernickety refs (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/worldcup06/2006/06/22/defrock_these_pernickety_refs.html)
Referees need help (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/worldcup06/2006/06/23/referees_need_help.html)

I just have new respect (um, no, not respect, more like admiration for the thought process behind how it gets readers) for The Sun, as my very bright boss is a former Sun journalist. Knowing my enemy, or something.

Fortunately we escape the Oceania qualifying group next time. We're part of Asia now. Oceania (as you know, but others may not) does not even have one entry to the World Cup - the top team has to play the 5th-place South America team for a chance at a place in the World Cup. That is why Australia is so motivated in this tournament: to get into the matches you just saw, we had to defeat everyone in Oceania, then defeat Uruguay (past winners of the World Cup) who were the 5th-place South American team. Which took two games and a penalty shoot-out, while dodging the poisoned food and violence Uruguay defeated us with in 2001.

Uruguay won the World Cup back in '38 and the very first tournament in '30  :-D

Back to Australia, if the socceroos play as well as the played against Brazil and actually score goals instead of choking it they might draw with Italy for penalties or even beat Italy.

Inzaghi didn't play very well even with the goal he scored, wasting a few chances ala Socceroos style  :-D

Good articles btw Tale

I think you're mistaken. The British hate Australia less than most other countries. However, we're justifiably pissed off that history records us sending prisoners and neer-do-wells off to a land of sunshine, beaches and clear oceans. Actually, most of of the Brits' xenophobic insults stem from self-loathing. Except the French ones.

OTOH, it is teeming with flora and fauna that just can't wait to poison you or swallow you whole.

Hate was too strong a word. I meant sporting rivalry: you love to beat Australia at sport. I'm actually a dual citizen, born in Scotland but mostly raised in Australia. My cousins still give me hell about the Ashes :) And the French are my favourite people in the world, rudeness and all.

Re Australia vs Italy, I think Italy will win. But if there's a miracle and Australia wins, it will get even more exciting: if I'm reading the groups right, we would face Ukraine, Switzerland, Korea or France and have a very good chance of going further.

I'm with you there. The coach seemed completely against subbing anyone until it was just obvious he had to. I kept hearing that DeMarcus Beasley was this fast as lightning guy, but every time he got the ball and a little space, he stopped. It was almost as if he remembered the coach telling him to play conservatively. The one time he went buck wild, they scored. Donovan was fucking useless. Onyewhu looked like he needed shoulder pads and a helmet. Reyna got pickpocketed like a 3-year old on that first goal. Where was this vaunted US team? They had about 3 players show up, the rest just lolly-gagged around the field like zombies at a brain buffet.

The reffing has been mostly bad to horrible, and I'm still trying to figure out why Ghana got that PK. I've had rougher bowel movements. 

Not so much footie as Rugby and Cricket.  Everyone wants to beat Australia at those!  I also think Italy is more likely to win, but I'm still cheering on Australia in that match.  I can't help it... Italians make me angry and Australians make me giggle.  I'd rather giggle.

As for the French, I'm also a fan.  I love spending time even in Paris where they might let me pick my own peaches when I shop, but they glare at me if I touch them first!  I like the way the French live, especially in Paris.  It's so nice to walk around in the evening, have a wonderful dinner, then stop by a jazz club for an hour or so of music and your after dinner pastis.  When we're in Paris, the TV is never turned on.

It turns out nobody actually got three bookings after all. The third 'booking' was the correct response to having noticed the earlier foul up.


In general the British dislike referees. But have no issues with Austrailians.

If the british *did* have issues with Austrailians then everyone in London would die of thirst, where 80% of all barstaff appear to be Austrailian. (I gather the reverse is true in Syndey due to some complex but unspoken exchange program arrangements)

Mmm, avoided the scores all day yesterday (which was HARD since I went to go play soccer at lunch)... and I get home and tell my wife, "Hey, I'm gonna watch the US game after dinner." To which she responds sarcastically, "Yeah, they lost. ha ha." Oops! Oh well, at least it kept me from watching the rest of the game after halftime.

I really can't wait to see the rest of the Australia game now. I watched the first half, and that handling of Viduka in the box was a howler. This is gonna be great fun to watch the rest of it.


Anyways... to revive something back a few pages... I think this would make a fun England formation:

--- Rooney -- Walcott/Lennon ---
------- Gerrard -- Lampard -------
- J.Cole --- Carrick --- Beckham -
-- A.Cole -- Terry -- Carragher --

3-5-2 with Carrick hovering around in front of of the back line, and Gerrard and Lampard roaming around in the middle. I think it'd be fun to see, and I'm gonna try it out next time I load up Winning Eleven. Ashely Cole could be replaced with Bridge, yeah... but is that really much of an improvement? I'd rather take Cole's speed if I had to choose between two meh performers. Terry and Ferdinand could be swapped equally, same with Hargreaves and Carrick. Carrick played excellently for Tottenham in that position, with some scathing passes through the midfield to start up plays, I'd like to see what he can do out here.

edit: derrr, I missed a player.

Sounds like a weak resolution to Group H this morning. Normally I wouldn't give either of them much chance of going further, but they both luck out and get to play the other weaksauce Group G in the knockouts. I sure wouldn't be too scared of France/South Korea/Switzerland... and they really shouldn't be too worried about Ukraine and Spain either. Why couldn't have the Ivory Coast gotten in a group like those?! They played SO well, such a disappointment to see them go home. France better not get seeded next time, unless they wake up and win Euro 06 or something.

Bridge can defend.

Defending is an important quality in defenders.

I'd actually like to see Bridge at LB and ACole at LW tried in a friendly. After all, there is a name of players who are good on the left or right hand side of the pitch, and who are better going forward than in defence, and it isn't full-back.

If Sven were to be kidnapped by aliens tomorrow, opening the way for a back 3, then I think you'd have to put ferdinand in at the back. Playing 3-5-2 I'd go...

-------------------Rooney--Crouch--------------------
---------JCole------------------------Gerrard-----------
Acole-------------Hargreaves-----------------?????
----------Ferdinand--Terry----Carragher-----------
-------------------Robinson-----------------------------

The real problem here is right wingback, Neville is the only member of the squad who would be even a possibility to play all the way up and down the right touchline. Beckham and Lennon can't tackle, Carragher can't run and you'd want a better crosser. However, Neville is still injured.

This is all pie in the sky ofc because Sven is more likely to play Theo Walcott than deviate from a back 4.

Back in crazy Sven-world, leaks from the England camp suggest England will be playing 4-5-1 on Sunday, bizarrely, Carrick will play at the back of midfield with Hargreaves replacing Carragher at RB.

You couldn't make this shit up.

So at the end of group play I think that concacaf and asia both deserve to have one of their automatic slots taken away and those teams forced into some form of a playoff.  Giving an extra possible slot to europe (I hate to say it, I really do) and the other to south america (conembol?sp?).

Because the Czechs and Polish played so well?

If it were purely on merit you'd just play West Europeans vs Argentina and Brazil. But it wouldn't be much of a world cup then would it?

Also, part of the problem with the idea of Europe or SAmerica gaining slots is that you only come to that conclusion based on analysing the performance of the best teams from those continents, but if you add more slots, you get more teams like the worst qualifying teams from those continents.

Oceania's worst (and only) qualifier was Austrailia, Asia's was Japan, Europe's was Serbia, South America's was Paraguay. I'd rather have more Austrialias and Japans than Serbias or Paraguays.

But I do agree that North America probably has more slots than it can usefully fill, I don't even know which team you'd classify as worst from that region.
 

W.T.F.

Why did he even bother taking Walcott? Gah.

Either way, yeah... I think 3-5-2 could be a great formation for the team. They need another guy up front to score goals, and with their best defenders lining up in the back they could hold out pretty well. Just a question of juggling the players... and yes, mind-controlling Sven. Maybe we can bribe him with a barrel of smoked mackerel. Swedes like dried fish, right?

So now we have:

Germany v. Sweden
Argentina v. Mexico
England v. Ecuador
Portugal v. Netherlands
Italy v. Australia
Switzerland v. Ukraine
Brazil v. Ghana
Spain v. France

I think it will result in the following quarters:

Germany v. Argentina
Both teams will sweep aside their opponents to get here. Sweden miiight beat Germany, but unlikely. They have been sputtering up front too much, and Germany are riding a great swell of confidence and support.

Australia v. Ukraine
Guus is going to rock Italy's boat. Australia play sooo fast, and so physically. Italians will fall before them. Expect lots of filthy diving and time-wasting from Lippi's squad. I think Ukraine will beat out the Swiss... maybe on penalties?

England v. Holland
England will do another sloppy win over Ecuador. Holland will push through Portugal with style... expect Robben to light the pitch on fire dancing around everyone. And C.Ronaldo will get a red card for petulant fouls and diving.

Brazil v. Spain
Brazil will get past Ghana now that they've finally picked up a little. Ghana get their strikers back, but I don't think they have the skill to edge them out. Spain will demolish a slow, uncreative, old French team.

After that... well, we'll see when we get there.

I still say that England and Holland are at greater risk going into the round of 16 then Italy...  we'll see who is right I suppose, I've been having a hell of a time deciding how good I actually think Ecuador is.

re: Eldeac

Here is what I based my selection changes on, goal differentials are in parenthesis':

0pt teams>
Serbia Montenegro (-8) europe
Costa Rica (-6) concacaf
Togo (-5) africa

1pt teams>
Japan (-5) asia
Suaudi Arabia (-5) asia
Iran (-4) asia
USA (-4) concacaf
Trinidad (-4) concacaf
Tunisia (-3) africa

Teams in the round of 16:
Europe: 9/13
South America: 4/5
Africa: 1/5
Concacaf: 1/4
Asia: 0/4

When you look at it like that giving both new playoff qualifing opporunities to south america (allowing them to potentially qualify half of their teams) doesn't even sound like a terrible idea  :wink:



Also I didn't say give south america or europe another automatic slot just give them another playoff qualifier opporunity and turn one of asia and one of concacaf's automatic qualification spots into a playoff.

Germany v. Sweden- Germany

Argentina v. Mexico -Argentina

England v. Ecuador- England (although this is dicey)

Portugal v. Netherlands- Netherlands (this is a coinflip in my view)

Italy v. Australia- Italy (LOVE to see the 'roos pull an upset here though)

Switzerland v. Ukraine- NO idea here (have only seen 1/2 of a Swiss game and no Ukraine yet)....gonna go with Switzerland

Brazil v. Ghana- Brazil; Ghana has no shot without Essien

Spain v. France- Haven't seen Spain yet, and France looked dodgy (haven't watched v Togo yet). I will say Zidane wills them through to the quarters. France.

Okay, let me see how my first round of guesswork went:

Group A: Poland, Germany
Group B: England, Sweden
Group C: Holland, Argentina
Group D: Portugal, Mexico
Group E: Italy, USA
Group F: Brazil, Croatia
Group G: France, Korea
Group H: Spain, Ukraine

Instead, we got:

Group A: Germany, Ecuador
Group B: England, Sweden
Group C: Argentina, Holland
Group D: Portugal, Mexico
Group E: Italy, Ghana
Group F: Brazil, Australia
Group G: Switzerland, France
Group H: Spain, Ukraine

So... 12/16 of my picks through, 3/8 groups on the money. Ah well. Time to revise my following guesses:

I think it'll be Germany vs Argentina, England vs Holland, Australia vs Ukraine, Brazil vs Spain.

They both played better than the USA.  :|

I'm seeing way too much love for Ukraine and Austrailia in these predictions. My predictions with current odds...


1.68 Germany v. Sweden 6.6
1.41 Argentina v. Mexico 13.5
1.54 England v. Ecuador 8.4
3.45 Portugal v. Netherlands 2.4
1.54 Italy v. Australia 8.0
2.6 Switzerland v. Ukraine 3.05
1.29 Brazil v. Ghana 13.0
2.4 Spain v. France 3.4

Spain and France I can't call, if I really had to I'd go with Spain.

If you are looking for an upset outside of that match Ecuador and Ukraine are the only remotely backable options for me. But I'm surprised you can't find longer odds on Ukraine.

Bet of the round has to be a double on Netherlands and Switzerland for 6.24. If you throw Argentina, Brazil and Germany onto that as an accumulator you can ramp up to 19.2, the danger in doing that is the possibility of a someone holding out for a draw.

I'd pick the same as you Eldaec, but I would have bolded Spain for sure.

at 4.50 I'm tempted to put something on the Aussies... although 1-4 for a draw...

Spain definitely is incumbent against France, scrapping in off the last match... not very impressive at all

Another one for Haemish: a laugh at Ronaldo's expense (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1723130120904751807).

I liked the commercial, that was from '98 right?

Sweden is lucky to have such a long, alert goal keeper, otherwise the score would have been Sweden 0, Germany 12.   :-P

Germany still didn't look like they've got enough to bring a game to Argentina.

Today Germany were flattered by a poor Swedish display. But the same can be said of every Argentinian performance so far - noone has played well against them either.

I wouldn't write off the Germans on home soil. I don't see either side keeping a clean sheet - and I'd still back the Germans to sneak out on top.

That was the best 45 minutes of football so far, and it was unimpeded silly ref calls. By comparison, Larrionda would have sent off several people and everybody else would be carrying a yellow card.

Well, it didn't get better, but the result was probably just in the end. The second Argentine goal was clearly onside, and though the Mexicans ran away from their goal to try and create an offside trap, they reacted too late. Good job for the Argies that they have young talent to carry them though the extra time. Both teams played well, but the Argentinians deerved that, and pulled it off, not least due to good use of subs.

That offside call against argentina was in line with the sideline refs' pattern of favouring the defending team throughout the '06 cup. They're hard calls to make; the sideline ref can rarely have his eyes centered both on the ball and on the last defender at the exact instant a pass is made, and as such the important thing is consistency rather than withstanding scrutiny by frame-by-frame TV replays. They've done a good job of being consistent on the tougher calls.

I thought overall Mexico Argentina was one of the more exciting games so far. Both teams were talented and very used to playing each other, but rather than creating rigid, deadlocked matches like most european teams tend to do in such situations, they played a fluid game throughout.

I have a hard time agreeing that Argentina "deserved" the win any more than Mexico would have, had they pulled it off. The mexican coach stated after the game that he couldn't make the substitions he had planned, because of a couple of injuries, and that probably ended up playing a bigger factor that people realize. As for that second Argentinian goal, it sure was beautiful, but it was hardly a group effort succeeding in breaking the mexican defense; moreso a brief flash of outstanding individual skill by Maxi, something Mexico also exhibited at times.

I agree that it was probably the most fun game I've seen so far.  I'm worried for England, though.  I think they might have to cheat or something if my voodoo doesn't work.   :|

England only have to beat Ecuador, local betting agency puts Ecuador at 1-7

Holland have got Argentinians to beat to prove they're not underachievers

What's your voodoo do for England anyway, aren't they suppose to give bad luck?  :evil:

I waggle my fingers a bit and imagine David Beckham naked.  I don't know if it helps them, but it gets me through the night.

Just watched the Arg-Mex replay, since I fell asleep during the first half since it was about 5:30am.

That was really a beautiful game, and since I have nothing invested in either team I was able to just sit and watch and enjoy the skill and talent of both teams without risking an aneurism. Really, I think both of those teams deserved to go through to the final 8. Just a great match from both.

Ecuador is a dangerous team, I wouldn't put them in the same league as Paraguay or Trinidad; they are much more capable of punishing England for sloppy plays or lapses in concentration. They are mostly unknown outside of south america, but lately they have had the structure to compete well against the south american teams, and unless England is on top of their game, they'll certainly get a run for their money as well.

England looked like they inended to play as unit for the first time today, though it's slow going working the kinks out of the new formation.

Lampard and Beckham were still ultimately passengers.

But for me it would still make more sense to put Crouch on instead of Lampard and have Rooney play from deeper. Lennon > Beckham right now, but we can disregard that as a bridge too far for Eriksson.

Carrick did well. JCole had a shocker. ACole was much improved over the group games.

Is everyone in shock about the Portugal vs Holland game?

I don't know how Marco van Basten can be so passive with a game with 4 red cards, 16 yellow cards.

Omg Kuyt sucked so bad too, I don't know why Ruud van Nistelroy didn't get on for the last 10 minutes too.

England must be laughing their heads off with Deco and another player suspended for their Quarters and Pretty boy Ronaldo injured possibly.

Very exciting, I would have enjoyed the game more if I wasn't supporting Holland

A still underwhelming England through to the semi-finals then. Both the Dutch and the Portuguese were totally robbed in that game. It was irrelevant who advanced, since they're both carrying enough yellow cards to make it easy even for a totally lousy England to advance. So, now England get to play the Portugal B team, and all they need to do is turn their backs to whoever comes near them. Brazil can spend a few nights on the town, secure in the knowledge that they're into the final.

Surprised to see Holand go out on such an average performance.

On the other hand from an England perspective, I'm pretty confident about the QF now, Portugal minus 2 important players suspended and a third possibly injured *should* be emminently winnable.

The Portuguese were definitely the better team, but I'm not sure many of those yellow cards were unwarranted. Figo could have gotten a red card for that headbutt.

I guess your waggling worked Signe  :-D

For me Kuyt was so frustrationly bad though, the lack of finishing was worse than Australia's! They didn't seem to be running with passion and fighting for the ball even though they were down a goal and were 1 man up for most of the game.

Just bad, so bad

Could it be that you just don't like germany much? This was a great game and it seems to me that you are a bit biased because of personal grudges.

Argentina vs. Mexico: The ref should have sent the argentinian player off for that foul.

I know.  I was just saying that to Righ.  I think I'm afraid of my fingers now. 

And... we like Germany, actually, Jeff.  I'm hoping they do well.  They may not have the better team, but they're not far off.  I'm hoping being at home gives them that extra bit of oomph they need to pull it off.

Against a fully prepared Portugal I think England would have had a hard time, and it'd have been a great game to watch. But as it stands, I'm not too excited.

Portugal Holland was just awful, shit hit the fan and neither team managed to keep level heads; the game was basically over after about the 60th minute.

Portugal is a tough team and they play pretty physical football.  It looks like that might work against them in this case, however.

I think England and Germany are great teams that are under-performing for their depth of talent. They have some of the very best players in the world who play at a top level for longer than most countries' players, world class coaches, and excellent pedigrees. They need to be performing much much better than they are. I think Germany can win the cup, and I'd certainly rather they did so than a South American country this time round. But right now its not looking good, is it?

I don't think I have a "personal grudge" against any nation as it happens, least of all Germany (after a few people I know had relatives die in the Falklands conflict and after working a stint in a military hospital around that time, I should really favor Germany in their next match if I bring external prejudices into play, shouldn't I?). And I have a deep love of German music and beer. But I'm still rooting for the Australian underdogs to astound everybody.

But hey, call me a fucking nationalist hater if you want, it seems to me that it just shows you up an imbecile and a presumtuous asshole.

Playing rough football is one thing, but towards the end both teams were out and out fighting; at least half of those yellow cards were for actions having nothing to do with the course of a play. Now, on top of having an injured C.Ronaldo, Portugal has a suspended Deco and very likely a suspended Figo too. Who does that leave to carry the team forward? I don't know what kind of players they have on the bench, but they'd better be pretty damn good.

Despite all the crap that the ref got in the broadcast here in the USA, the fault seemed to be more with the thuggish play/fighting of the players. 

I agree the majority of his cards were warranted. I think i remember seeing one or two yellow cards that seemed weird, but that still leaves about twelve or fourteen yellows that were entirely justifiable, especially towards the end when people were getting clipped left and right for no reason other than frustration on the other team's part.

In fact, there were at least two instances before general mayhem broke out where the ref let some pretty serious stuff slide that would have otherwise resulted in Portugal losing a second player, possibly conceding a penalty kick in the process.

I'd agree, you could easily throw a few extra yellows in for 'simulation' and Figo was lucky to get his yellow for the headbutt. If the referee had missed that then fifa would almost certainly have suspended him for the quarter final as well.

Deco's first yellow should have been a straight red so the referee was actually a bit too lenient  :-D  And how the little diving cnut Robben stayed on the field is another matter, he needed someone to come in and chop his legs away so as to have a real reason to writhe about on the floor.

I thought the ref completely lost control of that match.  He stunk.  Good for England, maybe, though.

Such a striking contrast, where the games on Saturday had excellent referees, and the next day.... geez. I remember that same ref from one of the Champions League legs with Barcelona and Chelsea. And he let that game get a little out of control too, as I recall. They ravaged Messi left and right before he called them for it.

The Portugal game was moments away from turning into an all out brawl, and I think it's fair to blame the ref for a lot of it. The players were playing rough, but the ref missing calls, calling bad ones, it sets up a mindset in the players that things are fair game, or that they need to get back at the others. The more he slips up, the worse it gets. I like the shot near the end of Deco and Van Brockhurst, teammates in Barcelona, sitting on the stairs talking to each other about how the ref was total shit.

I was rooting for Netherlands, up until they decided to not return that one ball back to Portugal. That was terrible, terrible sportsmanship, and lost me as a supporter in that game immediately. Embarassing, really.

One thing about the "kick it out when a man down" thing that annoys me is that when a team is putting on a performance of Macbeth on the pitch to try and milk out the clock the onus should not be on the other team to kill their own momentum by kicking it out of bounds.  Legit injuries are one thing but requiring you to knock it out because someone is compiling their Academy Award audition tape just doesn't sit right with me. I got the sense that the Dutch just got fed up with all the crap Portugal was playing and decided to keep playing. Bad sports all around and IMO not one-sided despite the breach in protocol.

Maybe.

But the Dutch were diving, and seeking penalties far more than the Portugeuse, I thought. I felt that it was a terrible disgrace. Not just that one incident, but their playstyle most of the game. The cleats to Ronaldo's thigh (good thing that player wasn't wearing blades...), the way Kuyt scythed down Ricardo near the end (you can see him letting his leg trail and stab into his thigh, he totally could have avoided that). It was just rotten and dirty all around. A shamble of a game.

That was going on both ways. The cleats to the shoulder in the box (can't remember the name) and putting a big boot to the Dutch keeper's forehead come to mind.  And I'm not referring to just this particular game in my comment about the kick out.  My feeling is that if play continues naturally and the guy isn't laying in the middle of the action so that he is in danger it should basically be "play on" until a stoppage or there is no longer an attack in progress. Otherwise it opens it to abuse and abuse of injuries is one of the things that aggravates me the most when I watch the matches.

I spent three weeks in Portugal in December and everything was football. National pride was up, despite the ever-present gloom of the Portugese (their national character is saudade, aka "things were better in the old days", which is basically true). Food was great, wine was fantastic, scenery was beautiful, pace was relaxed. Seeing them advance in the World Cup this year doesn't surprise me.

Yeah, fair enough. Play acting and writhing around just plain sucks. Kind of a catch-22 I guess. You don't kick it out, then when it's your turn to be face first in grass the other team just runs through. Kick it out and you have to deflate your momentum and let the other team waste time. Meh.

So now England have to face Scolari again. He knocked them out of WC 2002 with Brazil, and sent them home with Portugal at Euro 04. One wonders if he can do it again... without Deco, Costinha, and likely without Ronaldo and Figo (who I'm going to guess is gonna get a retroactive booking for that "headbutt"). I'd normally pip Portugal to beat them again at full health, but this time maybe the lads lucked out. Who knows.

And as a side note, I can't count how many crosses and bobbles in the box I saw Holland waste. Van Nistelrooy would have run riot with the service they were producing for that flap Kuyt.

Well after watching the match against Sweden I am positive that we can also beat Argentina. It will be a tough match but I think we can make it. If brazil keeps playxing the way they did until now then they can also be beaten. England is playing pathetic but I think this is more the fault of trainer Eriksson. Most of england's players are not team players. Players like Beckham expect that the team is working for them to provide them with what they need to score. It is not sufficient to just take your best players, stick them in a team and hope for the best. You have to build a team out of those 11 individuals. That is something that Eriksson has not achieved and it shows.

England is currently not showing its full potential because of that.


I didn't call you anything like that. You just keep pointing out that you think germany is playing pathetic and I keep wondering why. Thats all. I thought the game vs. Sweden was a great performance by a team that many here in germany wouldn't even have thought to be in the quarterfinal if you'd asked them five weeks ago.

It has pretty much always been like this though. England has often had very good players but never played good together as a team. The historical statistics when it comes World Cup for England isn't all that impressive.

Just wanted to quote that for how untrue it ended up being. Ecuador never seemed to play with any urgency whatsoever. The only real shot they had was that play that Cole broke up with his leg, other than that, they lollygagged. Of course, England played with even less heart. I don't think I've ever seen such a boring fucking game. It's like no one wanted to challenege anyone, other than maybe Rooney. He looked like he wanted to win. Everyone else just kind of ponced about. Had they been playing Germany, they'd have gotten killed. The Beckham kick was nice, but other than set pieces, he was invisible. When is this team going to actually play?

The Portugal-Netherlands match was insane. I forgot to Tivo it, and only picked up it up right at about the 45 minute mark. The second half was atrocious, and those refs should have been red-carded. I could not believe how much shit they let go, like the head butt, or how many stupid yellows they handed out. That play where Deko(?) got his second yellow was completely stupid. So he gets a yellow for holding the ball too long, but the guy who slings him to the ground doesn't even get a talking to? WTF? That was an awful display of stupid on both sides, but mostly on the refs.

England vs. Portugal has the makings of a complete embarrassment for the English, even though the Portugal side will be missing what 2 or 3 good players? Maniche and Figo may just embarrass the shit out of Robinson.

EDIT: And more about England's performance... why the fuck is Lampard even in the games? Every shot he's gotten on goal he has missed, at least from my recall. He's had at least 3-5 good scoring chances in all the games, and yet I can't recall him hitting a one. Most either go sailing out of the stadium because they are so high, or just flat miss both posts. What does he bring to the table that someone else wouldn't?

Germany v Sweden- snorefest

Argentina v Mexico- what a fantastic game. Of course, my goddamned TiVo cut off about 3 minutes before the GW goal, so I missed the end. I have since rectified that by setting all my future matches to tape for an extra hour. I sure would like to see Messi and Tevez get some more time- they are fun as hell to watch.

England v Ecuador- another mediocre performance by England squeaks them through. Everyone bitched about Beckham- I thought he actually played ok; I saw him working defensively FAR more than I normally do, plus the free kick was pure brilliance.

Holland v Portugal- ARRGH. I have been a Holland fan since 2000 or so (had a buddy on my soccer team who was Dutch, so I adopted them). Not playing Van Nistelrooy was a fucking joke. The guy scores a LOT of goals. Unless he was hurt, there is no excuse. Portugal, OTOH, I have always hated. They play a dirty, diving game, and drug Holland into the muck with them yesterday. I actually felt sorry for the ref- once things got heated, he had pretty much no control over the game and did his best to keep both teams from killing each other.

Go Socceroos!

Another world cup match decided by a bad ref call. Disgraceful.

That was some serious bullshit for Australia there.

If there was a video dictionary, the "foul" that triggered the penalty kick that won the match would be attached to the entry for diving.

That was the biggest non-foul I've ever seen, even after the one that gave Ghana the penalty kick which lost the match for the USA.

Now I have to hope that Italy is crushed in the quarterfinals.

Welcome to my 3am heartbreak.

(edit) TV just crossed to reporter in downtown Melbourne, with thousands of people in the background chanting "bullshit, bullshit".

that's why I only watch football once or twice a year.

That shit was ridicolous.

re: England, I dont get you fuckers at all, hasn't Beckham pretty much won 3/4 games for you?  I realize he doesn't do much on the defensive side of the ball but he has single handedly won 3 of 4 games.  Lay off?


I have to say, when I first saw the Italian go down in the box I thought it had to be a pk, it wasn't until I saw the slowed down replay that i realized he was just out of gas and let himself be tripped up.  I have no sympathy though, Australia should have already scored who knows how many times.  Italy's midfield winked out of existence in about the 70th minute.  Meanwhile on the other end they let that guy beat two defenders and as much as it pains me to agree with that fucker Balboa the 2nd defender perhaps should have not tried the slide tackle.

Italy earned that game by default because Australia clearly didn't want it badly enough I found their play confusing and frustrating as usual...  How many people had open looks at the top of the box who didn't shoot and instead passed it to a guy a little farther in with 3 Italians at his back?  Not to mention any long distance shots they took were over the net.

I may have missed something though, I was falling asleep throughout.

I think I mentioned the need for a video ref once or twice earlier in this thread. That's all I have to say.

That was a pretty good game overall, Hoax.  Would be nice if refs were alert enough to spot obvious dives.  I hate refs.

If you were falling asleep throughout, you're not a good enough football fan and will suck at being a decent hooligan. 

NO FOOTBALL THUGGERY FOR YOU!

http://www.thefootballfactory.com/ (http://www.thefootballfactory.com/)

And to be fair, Materazzi shouldn't have been given a red off the bat like that, either.

That's true, but Italy also missed several major chances when they should have scored. They were the more skilled team and everyone knew that from the start, but the fact is Australia held them to 0-0 and it would have gone into extra time with an Australian advantage (it goes to 15 mins each way, then if no result a penalty shoot-out). It would have been much healthier for football if that had gone ahead.

You're probably right about the OT, Tale.  I hate seeing any game depend on a shoot-out, however.

I am just spewing. Totally bull crap, it's true we didn't finish well. But we were attacking as much as they could. They may not of been able to score but not for the lack of trying. It's true we didn't make full advantage of the extra man either. But it doesn't mean that we deserved to lose like that from a penalty at the end of injury time.

spewing. :mob:

That's why it was a bad ref call. Just as it would have been stupid to penalise the Italian actress for her ballet dive, it was stupid to award a penalty for Neill lying prone in front of an attacker. At that point in the match, play on, if nobody scores, let them prove themselves in the following half hour. The ref obviously had a dinner date and needed to get out of there.

Well I can't wait for the next match to see the new and interesting ways the refs will continue fuck this World Cup up. Much the same way that Russian ref saved Graham Poll this Spanish ref (Spain wtf? apparently FIFA can't find any refs from North Amerca, South America, Asia or Africa to call this game) saved that Russian guy. Think anyone will be talking about yesterday's match now?

Right now I'm a very angry little Aussie.

I hope that referee dies in a bath of acid.

That alone does not convey how pissed I am.

I'd think of something worse but right now creativity isn't quite my strength

I mean the frigging ref was 5metres away for god's sake

:mob:

I understand the hate, but really it has to be a 'learning experience' too. Neill was frankly a Silly Nelli to let himself get exploited. Most of your hate should go to poor sportsmen (like Grosso) that play act to gain advantage. At that point in the game it was a bad ref call, but its the kind of crap that happens, and the Aussies let themselves get mugged. Blame the mugger, not the stupid policeman however.

What was up with Italy and the thumb thing at the end? Wasn't able to watch the game, but all the pictures have the Italian players with their thumbs in their mouths.

I think its meant to be a trumpet or something. They've also 'played a violin' when scoring. They've likened their goals to symphonies in press conferences, and that they are writing music with their football. I think it all sounds a bit sad, and they look like babies when they suck their thumbs, but I've seen worse celebrations.

frankly I'm not sure what Neil could have done to not have impeded Grosso a millimetre. Dig a hole in the ground?! This World Cup will be know for the referees. And frankly FIFA is to blame, after 2002 you'd think something action would have been taken.

gah. out of words.

Italy deserved the win. Working the defenders for a mistake in the dying stages of the game is very much a valid tactic. The one thing i do not understand is why they did not bring in Aloisi for Viduka at half time. Australia played very well throughout, but they seriously have 0 finishing power without either Kewell or Aloisi on the field.

If you no longer care about sport or sportsmanship, yes.

How is bad refereeing against a no-name team a new thing? Try and find the Bulgaria - Italy Semi-Final game from the 1994 cup. I was 10 back than, and remember the fucking call like it was yesterday. It was basicly the same thing as tonight. Can't fucking stand italian football ever since

yeah but this is the World Cup that gave 3 yellow cards in 1 match to the same person.

The Ghana penalty was suss too, there's just too many to mention, Portugal vs Hollahnd, Australia vs Croatia, Japan, Italy. US vs Italy? was that dodgy? The list just goes on. I'm certain that Ivory Coast was denied a few well deserverd penalties.

Horrendous.

This just strengthens my hatred of Italian football. I hope their league goes down in flames and all their star players end up picking olives in Tuscany for the rest of their lives.

Sepp Blatter says the referees suck (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5116414.stm). Yeah, no shit Sepp. AND IT'S ALL YOUR DAMN FAULT, YOU FREAKING JACKASS!

I agree it was an interesting match, the sleeping was not indicative of the quality of play as much as how little rest I got this weekend and how worn down my body is.  I'm not at work right now because I really can't walk with 3-4 blisters on each foot.

Obviously walking the streets as a rent boy is not the job for you!  Become a computer professional!  You'll never have to stand up again!   :-P

Here is where an ignorant American makes suggestions that won't work about a game he does not understand:

1. When somebody goes down injured or the ball goes out of bounds, blow the whistle and stop the clock.  This prevents people from wasting time and taking advantage of the fact that stoppage time never seems to be long enough.  It also gets rid of the "how long can I waste time and pretend I'm looking for a guy to inbound this ball to before I get a yellow card" minigame.  Or just keep more precise stoppage time.

2. Would a halfcourt rule a la basketball (i.e. once you take the ball to the offensive half of the field, you cannot kick it back into your defensive end) help cut down on the "kicking it backwards and around to run down the clock" issue (or is that not considered to be an issue by most people?).  Or would the costs (e.g. allowing defenders to trap offensive players as they come across the midfield line) be even worse?

For the first one, I think the extra time component handles it well enough as is.

As for the second:

Apart from changing the game on a fundamental level, like instituing a pitch clock in baseball, or  making it three downs  per side in American football, you mean?

There's enough turnovers in soccer as is, no need to add more. Besides, most time wasting is done as far away from the defense as possible. Most of the passbacks are along the lines of, "this isn't going to work, let's try again with a different approach." Once you cross midline, even a bunkerball team is more likely to contest the pass and set up a counter.

I"m not getting a real feel for how the Swiss and the Ukranians are doing from Matchcast, but  it's heading off to exra time. I should pull up the guardian minute by minute and catch up.

Both teams have bad first touches. They're losing the ball a lot, or making bad passes. It's the only thing keeping the game interesting really, since all the changes of possession was making it nearly end-to-end stuff. But it always breaks down at the 18 yard. I don't think whomever wins will have much chance of beating Italy based on how they are playing.

1) personally I agree, most of the world disagrees however. /shrug

2) Not really, football isn't a territorial game, it's a possession game, doing this would force people to play for territory by just hoofing upfield in order to get away from the half-way line. Poncing about with the ball around the half way line is a valid tactic anyhow, the best teams use it to pull the other team out of position before moving forward.

My reading of the Guardian's report was  probably twice as interesting as the game so far, with the extra added component of getting the summary of Miss Marple in the meantime.

Quote of the day:

This game is like watching England play England - A guardian update viewer

Edit:  So, Ukraine on PKs 3-0

Amazingly pathetic turd of a game just then. And now the answer to this question, "Name  a country to be eliminated from a World Cup Knockout Stage while allowing zero goals all tournament?" has the answer of Switzerland. My thanks to the guardian for that little trivia stumper. I guess I should fact check that to ensure no other teams have had such an odd distinction.

Knowing that they were about to face Italy, both teams put on a tremendous display of falling over as soon as they reached the penalty box. For some reason the referee played a different game this time round. As a result, no score, and a penalty shootout.

It's that consistency of the officiating that has me so riveted in this years Cup ;)

Good lord. Even the penalty shootout was as goalless and droll as the game. How do you not even score on the spot... after three tries?!

I fell asleep a bunch during that game also.

This thread has actually made me appreciate NFL refs. 

To be fair, neither side is nearly as well-practiced as the Italians when it comes to this sort of thing.  I am starting to realize that one of the things I so enjoy about Brazilian and Argentinian style football is that the players tend to adapt more of a "you couldn't knock me down if you were driving a beer truck" attitude.  It even works to their advantage, as they often get through situations that would have your average Italian player being sent off to the ER....only to miraculously recover after 5 seconds on the sideline.

a bulgarian commentator cracked me up yesterday:

"The Ukrainian coach is staying at the same hotel as the famous porn star Paris Hilton"  :-D

Funnily enough....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/5034522.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/5034522.stm)

from what I saw the Argentinas like to dive as well as play dirty with shirt pulling...

I am boycotting Italian food until they are eliminated, that was awful.  I will work in some shrimp to this weekends bbq in sympathy (and some shiraz, yummy stuff)

Go Argentina (the most fun team to watch) and England (though I wonder, are there other choices than Lampard or Crouch to play alongside Rooney, there has to be).

Well, there's Walcott. And er, um Crouch does a nice robot dance, no?

So, here's the question for the the day.

What will be the higher number?

1)Goals scored by Thierry Henry (or France in general)

2) Red Cards issued

3) Bananas thrown onto the field by rabidly racist Spanish supporters?

I tried to watch some of the games to see why so many people like soccer but I just can't get past all those dives, they disgust me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGlXKDJnEiY&search=dive%20football).  There should be penalties for faking it.

(http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-cha.gif) (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-cha.gif) (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-cha.gif) (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-cha.gif) (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-cha.gif) (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-cha.gif) (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-cha.gif) (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-cha.gif) (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-cha.gif) (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-cha.gif) (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-cha.gif) (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-cha.gif) (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ban-cha.gif)

That's what I'm hoping for.

Righ posted that earlier, without the Chumbawamba.  And technically, you can be carded for a dive, especially  in the penalty area. It's just that there's a lot of wiggle room that certain cynical , pathetic and morally bankrupt teams can use to take advantage of the situation.

Technically, the ref made the right call against Australia, but a better ref probably lets that go, given the cynical nature of the foul. Play on.

He seems to be there for nothing other than taking free kicks. The rest of the time he nonces about the field doing mostly nothing. If he never gets a good opportunity for a free kick, he's pretty much wasted.

Well, after Australia's knockout, and the cowardly dive the Italians took to do it, I'm out of 1st-tier favorites to support. So it's onto my second-tier team. England. Except, well, they're not really playing especially well, are they? I'll add in one of my third-tier teams as well then. Hm, Ghana being knocked out as I type this. Viva Argentina!

Ghana is giving it a good attempt, but they just don't have quite enough. It didn't help matters any that Ghana got hosed on a blown offsides call on the second goal.

And now a yellow card that leads to a red card for diving? (I believe the red card was due to second yellow, but whatevs)  Where was this kind of officiating yesterday vs. Italy  or last week vs. the U.S.?  These are the most inconsistent refs -- granted my frame of reference is basically this world cup and last, but still, these refs suck ass.

Teams to root for:

1.  Spain
+ never won before
+ very fun to watch
+++ would have to beat France
+ team name is "the Fury"

2.  Argentina
+ very fun to watch
+ great individual talent but play as a team
+ not Ukraine
- sort of greasy

3.  Portugal
+ some magnificent players
+ never won before
+ would have to beat England thereby ridding us all of having to hear about how terrible England is

Gyan was a little :too: obvious. Second yellow deserved.

Goal now by Ze Roberto. That's all she wrote.

Luckily for England, Portugal has about 7 yellows.  Hopefully, they'll piss off the ref enough to make them all turn red. 

Are you saying he's a slow, ponderous player with no pace at all? That he can't effect a game unless he can casually stroll up to a deadball? That he's unnecessary weight plodding around the field?

(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/offbeat/gallery/2006/0622/02.ap.jpg)

Is that Posh on top?

All that may be true about Beckham, but as a woman, he pleases my eyes.

Have him bathed and brought to me.

I personally think he's great. People are too hard on him. With Gary Neville making overlapping runs to open up more space for him (since he's not a very deft dribbler), he plays wonderfully. The last game he was tracking back to the last third making defensive tackles and pressure, between his spells of vomiting. That's commitment, and great leadership. Keep him in.

This one's for Signe: Hawtness (http://www.vnn.vn/dataimages/original/images619639_david_beckham2a.jpg)

It's also what rightwingers are for - you don't get bonus points for tracking back, you get shouted at for not doing so.

Beckham is usually better than this. Lennon is currently playing better.

So,

Germany vs Argentina
Italy vs Ukraine
England vs Portugal
Brazil vs France


I'm going to stick my neck out a little and back Germany, Italy, England and France.

I actually think Germany look like the team on the rise, while in Argentina's display against Mexico they were looking a little uncertain of what to do when the pressure is on, Italy are the easiest pick - they're just flat out better than Ukraine, England might be below expectations but I suspect they still have enough to get past a Decoless Portugal, finally France are getting it together, wheras Brazil's 3-0 scoreline flattered them today - I get the feeling France have a real opportunity this weekend.

You have to get two yellow cards in the same game to get an indirect red.

What all those yellow cards mean is that if those players pick up another yellow during the England match and Portugal wins, they will be suspended for the next game.

Getting a red card (direct or otherwise) during a match also suspends you for the next game.

Although I hadn't actually seen a full spain game, I'd picked them to win this game today based on what I'd heard so far. But they played very badly today, appearing inexperienced, unable to control the ball or retain possession for very long, and had it not been for that penalty which was rather unintentional on the defender's part I thought, they'd have lost 3:0.

I pick Brazil over France, Italy over Ukraine, Portugal over England (wishful thinking, probably won't happen), and tentatively Argentina over Germany.

Portugal then loses 3:2 to Brazil, who go on to face Argentina in the finals.

Of course, Brazil has a shameful history against France, but let's hope the game isn't rigged and the refs aren't corrupt this time around.

Whomever wins between Germany-Argentina will make it through to the final. Both of them can definitely beat Italy/Ukraine, I think. Lucky them.

Looks like a lot of really great games. England v. Portugal, a rematch of the Euro 04 semi that saw Rooney with a broken foot early on. He'll be wanting to amend that a lot. I get a sense one he gets that first goal, he's going to explode. Brazil v. France, a rematch of the 98 final. Brazil will want to put that straight as well. The old guard of France will want one last go at glory before retiring, maybe that will keep them kicking on all gears. Germany and Argentina have been the most exciting teams to watch, so it'll be great to see them go at each other. Riquelme's finesse vs. Ballack's drive. Good stuff to come. Let's hope the referee's keep their current form up too... they look to have been getting a little better as we get deeper in.

Speaking as an American,  I think we're just not wired well for possession over territorial games.  All our popular sports emphasize position more than possession.

It was really tough to change the way I thought when I played rugby in college.  The instinct is to charge down the field,  when you want to advance while maintaining solid possession and sucking in the opposing linies to create gaps and have the scrummies pummel them a bit.

Germany vs Argentina- Argentina (especially if they get a clue and play Messi and Tevez more than 10 minutes)

Italy vs Ukraine- Italy seems to have a horseshoe stuck up their ass (and a large retainer paid to the refs), so I guess they go through

England vs Portugal- England. Portugal and their thuggish tactics are crippled by missing players, thankfully.


Brazil vs France- Brazil, although I will root like hell for France. I love watching Zidane and Henry play.


If someone spoils any game other than Italy v Ukraine (the one I easily care the least about), I cannot be held responsible for my actions. Not that any of the folks who post in this thread would- it is others that worry me.

I surely hope not. Germany FTW ;-).

Well I will watch the game in one of the large public viewing areas here in Nuremberg. So I will most probably be too drunk to spoil anything. Either because we are celebrating Germanys victory or to drown the sorrow in alcohol.

This is the "2006 World Cup Chock full o' spoilers thread" ...

Hush!  You ruined the fun!  Tattletale.

Heh. I was referring the trollish fuckwit that mentioned the Brazil v Ghana result in a thread in MMOG. Grrrr.

What you said.  I would start both of those guys, in favor of basically anyone on their squad (or, yeah, play them a whole lot more than 10 mins).  Tevez is just a total playmaker and trying to defend Messi must be about the most demoralizing thing imaginable.

Germany - Argentina    Close match, early goals by Klose and Schweinsteiger are equalized through a failing defene. A goal by Messi a.e.t.

Italy - Ukraine       Too much defense, too much Totti, too much diving.


England - Portugal           The ride's about to end, but not today. A depleted Portugese team still manages to get Ing-er-land on the ropes, but a late goal  lallows the Brits to be smoked by either:

Brazil - France    Something tells me to pick France. Maybe it's the fact that Brazil hasn't  won a cup in Europe since the 50's.  But even if Ronaldo is munching an entire box of Krispy Kreme's finest before the match, I can't pick against him and  Ronaldihno. Even though there was some friction evident in the waning moments against Ghana, I think  they make it through.

Looking forward to tomorrow. :)

Germany - Argentina was an awesome game. Ballak should've gotten a yellow card for that dive though. I didn't get that at all - why the hell call the dive and not give a card when you did the same thing 10 minutes ago.

I was rooting for Argentina, so I'm a bit down right now.

What was up with the dustup after the penalites?

And I think Peckerman, what a name, has to be held  accountable for not getting Messi in the match with one of the subs, even if you did have to pull Abbondanzieri.

I hate Germany.

It is far too early for Argentina to be sent home.  Which makes me hate Italy even more for getting to play Ukraine in the round of eight.

If France and England win I'm going to just quit watching...

WoW Germany vs. Argentina was just awesome.

A pity though that we had to face Argentina in the Quarterfinals, this would have been a very good final.

Italy had not much work to do to beat Ukraine

I agree. Germany finally stepped up their game. Ballack and Klose were great of course, but what made all the difference in the world was Germany's defense. They're finally starting to show that they have the ability to realise the potential of this team.

I hope England improve as much tomorrow. Italy were disappointing again - a few minutes of brilliance at the start of each half. I guess that's all they needed.

I think argentina would have won if Messi hadn't sat the whole game.  I know they lost two changes due to injuries but putting in that other guy... Cruz? i think, instead of Messi on the last one was a horrible mistake.  Hell, not having your best player on the starting lineup is pretty fucked up to begin with.

Italy and Portugal in the semis. They should change the name to Divers 2006.

So, we've got an improving Germany against a mediocre Italy. Now a dull Portugal go through. Neither Portugal nor England were able to win a game against poor defense. It looks like the best that we can hope for is a Germany vs. Brazil final.

Rooney's sending off was well deserved (assuming that the ref did it for the stomp to the goolies, and not the girly shove) but it should never have happened. He should have been yellow carded ten seconds before that.

Ya. That play got out of hand because the ref swallowed his whistle. It was a 3 person scrum for a good 5 seconds before the offending boot to the groin.  That puss Ronaldo of course had to run up and stick his beak into the melee after the action and escalate it too.

I'd be curious to see if Rooney gets the same treatment from the English press Beckham did in 1998. I'm betting they go soft on him.

I already hate him, just like I hated Beckham back then.  I'll get over it.  Mostly.  Maybe.

That was fine football, the best game of the cup so far. France were magnificent today. They just showed how much a team can improve from the group stages. More of the same in the semi-finals please.

That was indeed a beautiful game. About time one showed up in this Cup. Zidane was unbelievable.

Brazil's shots on goals -1

France shut down Brazil consistently the entire game. That, combined with Zidane's wizardry were the keys to victory, from my point of view.

Lol, it's just that Totti's wife had a child recently and he dedicated the goal to him.

It's not a trumpet :D

It was a Spanish bloke who started it a while back, no?  He dedicated his goals to his kid who always sucked his thumb.  I could probably find it via google but I can't be arsed.  I just remember that it's been copied numerous times since then.

Did anyone else catch on the ESPN commentary after Rooney stamped that guy's nuts? The commentator was like, "Yeah, Rooney is from Liverpool, a real scouser." Kind of implying that's the reason he made such a thuggish foul. And then I think he realized the somewhat inflammatory way he said it, his tone kind of trailed off. I got a chuckle out of it.

France vs. Germany then? If France keep playing like that... it's going to be an awesome final for sure. I'd love to see Zizou retire in a final, he's just so entertaining to watch.

These don't work simply because soccer is based on other cultural influences. So that's not the goal.

The american football is like a mmorpg treadmill. You are forced to move forward, progress. If you move backwards it means you are losing, like losing experience when you die in a mmorpg. This type of movement is a simulation of a deep cultural influence that in definitely based on a constant, unrestrainable "progress". The idea that America is helped by God along the way and will always overcome the difficulties. "Moving forward" as the only real goal. The "game" is just a "rite" to reenact what is part of America's past and culture. In this case the conquest of the west. A vertical front that moves onward, building railroads along the way with all the people following those locomotives and building mobile villages along. The "west" was the promised land. An Eden on earth. Then they reached the opposite side and this model faced a crisis. But America is big, so there's always a "somewhere else" where you can go. In fact in the American cities you don't see "integration". You see specialized areas: Chinatown, Little Italy, towns with people with pets, towns with people with no pets.

The soccer is traditionally more European and even this because of cultural values. Europe is smaller than America and packed with people. You couldn't go somewhere else, you couldn't go hide or ignore something. You were surrounded. And this is why soccer doesn't symbolize a continue, constant and infinite progress, but instead diplomacy and politics (something, uhm, lacking in the US). That's why the game is less territorial, more variable and mobile and where you can even lose time through the possess of the ball. There are more complex and intricate dynamics, a more tactical approach. These are all elements that aren't justified by a "fun" game. The rules aren't set by a designer to be "fun". But to symbolize those precise cultural values.

How many different ways did he just lose the internet with that post?  Person to find them all gets a cookie.

Um, lots.

If it wasn't for the new Signe Avatar, I would've died.

The first sentence was almost interesting.  And then it all went down hill from there.   


I remember the last time I went through a town with  people with no pets.  It was spooky, what with all the dogs that weren't barking and all the people just standing around.  Reminded me a lot of American Football.

Well the italian team keeps on doing what it does best. Being complete fuckwads and using every cheap trick possible to get an advantage over another team.

Well, after the Germany vs. Argentina match things got a bit out of hand. A couple of Argentinian players started a minor fight but things broke up after a few seconds. Unfortunately an Argentinian player was booked with a red for assaulting a german player. FIFA had claimed on sunday that they would close investigations into the subject and that no other member of the German or Argentinian team would face any repercussions

After looking very hard for three days the Italians claim that they have found proof that one of the German players hit one of the Argentinian players in the face and they are now demanding that the respective player should be banned from the tournament because of that. The player in question is Torsten Frings one of the key players on the german team.

Sky Italia claims to have TV footage showing that Frings hits the Argentinian player Cruz. I will provide the picture if I can find it.

Cruz on the other hand claims that Frings hasn't hit him. The German team managers have until 13:00 to respond to the accusations, the decision will be announced before 18:30 on monday.

If Frings is found guilty he will face at least a 6 games ban and will not be able to play the rest of the world cup.

Just to be clear. I do not condone violence on the pitch. If Frings has actually hit the Argentinian player then he has to face the consequences of his actions but it is cheap for the Italians to try to get an advantage of the germans by framing one of our players.

Fricking comedy gold.

The basic rules are set according to what a few english teams in the 19th century thought would benefit them the most.

They are refined by a badly run commitee of the British FAs and FIFA based mostly on the principles of money and self-interest. Despite this it all seems to just about work.

To be fair I suppose this does reflect well the decision making processes of the EU, if not of actual european culture.



Back to the actual World Cup, it's got to be Germany all the way now, Italy don't have enough to stop them, and while France will glide past an average Portugal, I don't see them improving enough to beat Germany in the final. A 3rd place play off between Italy and Portugal will be hilarious, I will be surprised if either team finish with more than 9 players.

Regarding England's exit, if Crouch and Lennon had been on from the start instead of Lampard and Beckham England would be in the semi final (where they would probably be beaten by France. Even the penalty shootout was effectively conceded by choosing a lineup with only 4 players plus Frank Lampard. bah. Also, Eriksson's press conference after the match was hilarious, espeicially where he asked everyone to not blame Rooney - NOBODY IS BLAMING ROONEY EVERYONE IS BLAMING YOU, MORON!

Finally, the Argentinian who ref'd England vs Portugal should get the final - best refereeing performance I've seen so far, he dealt with all the Portugese diving and Rooney's stamp,  really well.

The FIFA is the Association of all national football associations (fédération internationale de football association. So stating that the rules are refined by the british FAs and the FIFA is incorrect since the british FAs are part of the FIFA, as are the german FA, the french FA and every other FA in the world. All in all there are 207 FAs organised in the FIFA.

The executive committee consists of representatives of all the major FAs (24 overall) and from Great Britain only scotland is part of the EC. Look at www.fifa.com for further info.


Could we please keep politics out of the so far very nice world cup thread. Especially if it is such drivel as your statement or the one by HRose?

I have no clue as to how much of what eldaec wrote was true or untrue, but it seems unfair to label it as drivel when given a side-by-side comparison to HRose's entry.  If it was the World Cup of Drivel, then HRose just bicycle-kicked his way to the title.

Back on topic:  I can't bring myself to root for the Germans (I find their style a bit boring), but I am not sure I have a choice.  Portugal would have once been the obvious choice as an underdog you could get behind, but the thuggery and theatrics they have displayed has been a major turnoff.  Italy would be a great team to root for - because they actually play exciting football - if only they'd stop acting like a bunch of bitches all the time.  ALL THE TIME.  Stop it already, Italy.  France would be a good team to root for, with all the over-achieving they are doing with their geriatric squad.  Also, Zidane on the top of his game is a sight to behold, and he tends to bring the good stuff for the big games...he basically humiliated Brazil.  They've had their day in the sun, though.

So yeah, go Germany.  I guess.

I was referring to the international board - which sets the laws of the game, for historical reasons the rules are still set by a commitee of the English, Welsh, Scottish, and Northern Irish FAs plus 4 FIFA nominees. The board meets annually (I think) and can change the rules if 6 of the 8 agree.

The fifa executive runs the game, but can't change the rules.

What rules do you want to change anyway? Its not that Soccer is rocket science. Put the small round thing into the large square thing.

Or to quote a very famous german coach.

The ball is round
A game is 90 minutes.
The round has to go into the square
The next game is alway the hardest
Everything els is just theory

Well, it was only 12 years ago that the rules were changed to ban tackling through the player (it used to be legal to scythe someone down from behind so long as you got the ball as well), plus the offside law gets tweaked every five minutes, allowing concepts like golden or silver goals gets discussed, the rule about a foul by the last defender being a red card is also relatively new, and so is the rule preventing the GK picking up a backpass etc etc etc....

Some number of rules changes get made at most IFAB meetings.

Yes, but those rule changes suck and make soccer more boring.

I repeat the question with the proper emphasis. What rules do you want to change anyway.

 8-)

OK you are right. Eldaec, I apologize for labelling your post as drivel. HRose's post is still drivel however.

I realize that it may be the American in me talking, but there are probably a few interpretations of the rules that would do a world of good to make things less boring.

-More leniency in off-sides rulings.  I am not advocating an actual change of the rule, but holy crap it gets tiring to watch them raise that flag 50 times during the course of a match, especially when they only seem to get it right about half the time (maybe that's too harsh).  As it is now, the defending side is almost always given the benefit of the doubt, and I think it should be the exact opposite.  Give an invisible half-meter of leeway to the attacker.   Another part of this rule that irritates me to no end is when you get the old bouncy ball situation down within the penalty box, where the ball is going all over the place, suddenly pops out to an attacker after hitting the post (or whatever) who then proceeds to get it into the net...only to have it called back.  I know that these are offsides according to the rules, but it doesn't feel like it.  Shoot, eliminate the offsides rule completely within the box.

-Fouls in the penalty box that lead to instant victory.  Too many questionable calls in the box that basically hand the game to one side (especially when so many of these games go 0-0).   Maybe make it so that only cardable offenses lead to penalty kicks?

-Player gets hurt on the field (or does he?).   They call out the stretcher, perform life-sustaining CPR, haul the guy off to the sideline.   Miraculously, after a quick spray with that magical cure-all aerosol thingy (what the HELL is in that can?!), the guy is ready to return to the pitch in 10 seconds.  Fuck that.  I'm not sure how you deal with this without penalizing teams when a player is legitimately hurt, but surely a hurt player needs more than ten seconds.  Maybe he needs 5 minutes...and maybe the faker needs 5 minutes too, if you catch my drift. 

Okay, done ranting.

Heh, that used to be much worse, until the mid nineties you were treated on the pitch, and the game waited for you.

Shortly after the rule was changed to the current version David Beckham managed to get himself booked because after picking up a knock he just walked off the pitch instead of rolling about and waiting for the stretcher.

Technically I believe Micheal Owen should also have been booked in the game against Sweden for trying to do the same thing.

Right, but that is why I posted that somewhat random idea of a 5 minute quarantine instead...the theory being that the hurt guy needs it (getting subbed out would negate the 5 min requirement), and the faker deserves it.   The ref always walks over to the player and makes a quick evaluation before calling out the stretcher anyway, so that is your chance to get off your arse.

Another positive side effect would be that either the Italians would stop playing stuntman...or they would never have more than 5 or 6 guys on the pitch at any time.  It's win-win.

I'm just shooting out my behind at this point.  But nothing pisses me off as much as all the diving shit, and I wish they would do something about it.

The problem with a system like that it sets up a situation where a player will end up standing back up too quick to avoid the 5 minutes off the field and do himself a more serious injury.

The only way to fix diving is a detailed post match video review with a one match suspension as the penalty for diving, lying to the ref, or simulating injury to a part of the body that wasn't touched.

People sometimes fall over under their own steam, and contact is almost impossible to spot when you only get one full speed view of the incident and you aren't ready for it.

If a player appeals to the ref in any way after a no-contact fall, you ban him. It's the only way.

I think the diving is hilarious and entertaining, especially on replays where you see people get hit and react to other parts of their body or get 'knocked back' from a hit that was actually a miss. It adds some flavour and colour to the game, and an interesting dynamic of how much you can get away with, which teams push it and which don't, &c.

They should change the rules to let England back to kick everyone ass.  Everyone needs a good ass kicking, if you ask me and England needs kicking practice.  Then they should tie up the refs, all of them, an leave them in a Athens locker room with their trousers at half mast and let the Greeks take care of them.  That's what I think, that is!  (Sorry if I was too political)

What was I saying?  Oh yes... have this World Cup removed and let us never speak of it again.  Rugby is a much better game. (http://harlekins-online.de/Videos/williaml_spot_haka2000%5B1%5D.mpeg)  And they have better adverts, anyway.

Oh well, FIFA has banned Frings for the semifinal. He also got 6 months of probation but will be able to play again in the finals if we get that far.

This is a hypocritical decision. On the one hand FIFA is dead against TV proofs and says that all ref decisions are sacrosanct, on the other hand players get banned retroactively because of TV footage.

Well expect the Italy vs. Germany game to get really messy tommorow. The german fans will cry bloody murder because of the italian media framing Frings and I do not believe that all german players will refrain from taking it out on the italian team. Well without Frings it will get much harder to beat Italia in the semis but that is not the worst.

After today I am really fearful for tomorrows match. I hope that the german fans will not do something irresponsible but that might be wishful thinking if the game goes badly for us.

 :sad_panda:

Italy as a nation seems to have forgotten what sport is about. It's not just football that they will take any measure to get the upper hand at. They have more credibility in their parliament than they do in any of their sports teams and associations.

Simple change to top level soccer rules.

Add a second ref, period.  I dont think having 4 linesmen would be a bad idea either but a second ref is a must-have.  This world cup has proven to me that one person cannot actually be expected to cover the entire pitch.  Beyond that, one ref seems to lead to a bunch of bullshit calls made on a personal level not a rules level.  Make up calls, truly bizarre cardings, tons of yellows for dissention etc.

Get a second ref on the field, one for each side of the ball and watch the yellows flow for dives.

About the cup itself, here's hoping Portugal at long last remembers how to play defense, I'm not getting my hopes up but a Germany/Italy v France final sounds so lame to me I want to cry.

Why? France have played the best game of the cup so far. I want a Germany v. France final.

Because I'm sick of the european super powers.  All I wanted this year was for the final to not have two of the 7 fucking teams who have already won in it.  Not looking too good on that front at the moment.  Also who doesn't hate France?  Pass me the fucking freedom fries.

P.S.
No game involving Germany is ever interesting because of them; some -like the game v Argentina- are interesting in spite of them.

*edited to more closely resemble English*

With the match fixing investigation currently ongoing back in Italy, which involves clubs three quarters of the national squad play for, and is likely to see those players and clubs all relegated to a lower division and even the possibility of some prison sentences handed out to people they decide to make scapegoats (if a a match is fixed, players simply have to be involved, club chairman cannot do it alone) , it seems the current Italian football professionals deem winning the only thing.

Shame really.

When they actually forget about the acting and histrionics, they play some entertaining football.

Fucking whiny Italian bitches! I hope it won't help them amd they still get kicked out of the World Cup. If you can't win on your own merits, you shouldn't compete.

OK now I have an english language link from the guardian.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/story/0,,1811750,00.html

Still no picture

This very well could find its way into a signature. Comedy GOLD.


Amen. Does this mean that England should have sent tapes of Figo's fucking headbutt in the Holland game to get him banned before their match??

God I hate the Italian and Portuguese diving. I wish serious and mortal injury whenever I see that shit. ARRGH.

France played a SPECTACULAR game against Brazil. Zidane has just been a joy to watch- I will be sad to see him go.

Here's to a Germany v France final (FUCK the divers), with Zidane going out a champion.

I was amazed. Crouch was actually decent in this match, better than I've seen him the whole Cup. Lampard, though... what a fucking waste of time he was. I swear, he couldn't find the goal with the ball if the goal was as high as the stadium. He just looked completely lost out there. Beckham was pretty much a waste on the field as well, except that just about all of their scoring was because of his free kicks. That's the sad part. The team just looked unwilling to press anything. And why was Wolcott even on the team, since he never even got to warm up during a game? Is that normal?

The team they put out there sucked it. There were a few decent performances, Joe and Ashley Cole, Gerrard was mostly ok, Lennon and Neville were good, and Rooney looked to be trying even though he rarely had any support. I've no idea if Owen would have helped, he got hurt too soon. The rest of the team just lollygagged about.

I still think France counts as a new kid to the table. They only got that one star, and that was only 8 years ago. Their previous results have been far from "superpower" status. And I agree with you, it'd be nice to see Portugal in the final, just to shake things up a bit. But at this point, I have to root for France. They have Henry, who is without a doubt my favorite player in the world. And Zidane, who for my money is the greatest man to touch a football since Pele.

You were intimating a preference for Argentina over Germany and Brazil over France earlier. What about those two teams winning doesn't scream status quo? Having only been to the final game once each, England and France don't count as much of the World Cup Order. Even repeat losers Hungary, Holland and Czechoslovakia are more a part of the establishment.

And I hope that Australia win the 2014 World Cup as hosts, he said, snubbing Brazil's bid. :P

Speaking of future World Cups...

All the commentators and pundits have been talking about the next Cup being held in South Africa, and how the big teams who have been suffering in the summer heat of Germany are going to have it even rougher.

Earth to idiots. South Africa is in the Southern Hemisphere. It's a wonderfully comfortable 68-74 degrees of coastal winter right now. It's going to be an awesome venue for the World Cup. It makes me think they should hold them all in the Southern Hemisphere. It keeps the games livelier without the stifling heat.

Maybe Australia for 2018, and Brazil or someone else in the deeper bits of South America can have it for 2014. Nice and cool, southern winters. The players and teams would appreciate it more, I bet.

That would be the Turks, not the Greek. The Turks from Anadola to be exact.

Wolf - providing politically incorrect local knowledge since 2006.

It is normal for a significant proportion of the squad to never play (there were 23 players in that squad after all). It's not normal for someone to be taken who wouldn't be played under any other circumstances other than perhaps when 4-0 up in order to give him a run out.

As for Beckham, while he got a goal and 2 assists, the reason that turned out to be such a high proportion of the total is that neither he nor Joe Cole was capable of bringing the central midfield into play, they both insisted on tonking high balls up to Crouch the whole time (who, isn't actually that good in the air remember). When Lennon was on the pitch he looked much less like scoring himself, but was much better at bringing the rest of the team into play. If Lennon had been playing then Rooney, Gerrard, and Crouch would have been even more effective.

The reason Crouch was at his best vs Portugal was that Beckham and Joe Cole were off the field.

Thank you, Wolf.   :heart:

So. At half time I say that both Germany and Italy played pretty much on the same level. It's a good match till now, well balanced. Italy had a few more occasions but Germany got a couple of more dangerous ones.

I guess by now you are already all yelling savagely at Totti's diving and the yellow card ;p (but then it's again rules that, like em or not, do exist in this game. You cannot tackle from behind, miss the ball and hit the legs)

I am nervous, games like that tear on my nerves.

I guess I am to old for this shit.

Damn.

I didn't want Italy to win but that first goal was beautiful.

So much for that. We are out. Third place here we come.

Great game by both teams, great goals from Italy.

As much as i dislike italy i gotta say they earned that one.  Both of those goals where beautifull.

Now, that was an awesome game.

I didn't really see what was so good about brazil-france, as brazil didn't show up at all. BUT THAT GAME WAS AMAZING. If you didn't love every second of it, you don't love football. Plus I was rooting for Italy, so I woke up half the neighbourhood when they scored the first goal :)

WOOT! Italy in finals :)

The second half time Germany was much more aggressive and Italy seemed much more tired, even if they defended well. Then the extra times they woke up, hit one pole (or whatever you call that), hit the traverse and then got more juicy occasions.

I guess Germany went out of fuel.

Certainly looked like it.

Gah I hate the damn Italian divers but they earned this win unlike the penalty free win pass go to the final whistle game.

The goal by Grosso was very nice, and the Italians had two chances deflected by the woodwork.

GO FRANCE!!!! :-D

Well it was fun while it lasted.

Italy dived like there was no tomorrow but they earned the victory. The game vs. Argentina has taken its toll however. The last ten minutes the germans were just plain k.o.

Well I m still a bit sad. Go France.

Is it too early to start praying for the french national team to the diety of his or her choice?

We can't have an all diver finals.

When that ball  was held up at the top of the box,  I had this  overwhelming sense of dread. It was very much like waiting for the axe to fall.  Fortunately it was quick.

Italy were on pretty good behaviour most of the game. I don't begrudge them their win at all. Their two goals were from clear, clean plays and finished with aplomb. Good show, Azurri. Keep it up.

I'm not sure about that.  Football certainly, hockey kind of (dump-and-chase being a valid tactic), but not basketball (baseball is hard to categorize on this ground).  In basketball, possession is more important than position; passing around the perimeter and even retreating--all the while probing for weakness and giving your teammates opportunities to find those weaknesses and move to favorable scoring positions--is the name of the game.  But without rules designed to keep the game moving, basketball would devolve into a "score two baskets and then play four-corners for 47 minutes and hope to win 4-0" snoozefest.  Soccer reminds me of basketball, except without the over-and-back rule or the shot clock.  It's obviously not as bad as four corners basketball, but it has a bit too much of that feel to it for my liking. 

Now, I'm sure ripping rules from basketball and applying them to soccer isn't the right way, but the they should have a similar goal: cutting down on egregious clock-milking.  Rule changes like the "goalkeeper can't punt it out when played back to him" are basically in that vein.  I suppose HRose sees that as some horrible American infringement on the game of his father, and his father's father.  I'd ask why he hasn't boycotted the sport since that rule change out of solidarity with the American Indian, but he's the living embodiment of everything people make fun of grimwell.com for, so who gives a rat's ass.

(oh yeah, politics was not flamebaity enough, I went THERE!)  :evil:

The game is not of italian origin. They're just the rules lawyering punk bitches who happen to be good as well.  Bastards.

While they were on good behavior today, I would venture that was more to the fact that the ref would have none of it.  That dive against Australia is worth two cups worth of grief from my view.

I am rooting for France until HRose cuts some of that hair off his face.  It's like some sort of facial forest!  I bet his mum hates it, too.

I can't root for France or I get fired. 

At least, that's what I heard.

Italy vs Portugal would be a finale to watch. 22 people falling down on cue and clutching their hurt legs in pain.

It's all good as long as France loses.

If I can ever figure out why Koreans think that Canada and France are cool....

Well, actually, my brain will probably implode.

It would be like Haemish discovering some deep hidden truths hidden in every Uwe Boll production that suddenly revealed Uwe to be a true genius of our times.

Hehe...

I'm so weird.

Yeah, both those goals were great. A complete breakdown on the part of the German defense and the Italians took advantage. Neither one were caused by a dive. I just hated that I got the ending spoiled by ESPNNews before I could finish watching the Tivoed match.

EDIT: I'll have to root for Italy in the Finals. The wife is Italian, so she'll be rooting for them. I can't in all good conscience root for France, as I'll be expecting them to surrender any moment during the match. And Portugal... they just play shitty, thuggy ball.

Sure, Italy sounds good.

Do the Italians have cute players this year?

Compared to the gracefull swandives of the Italians, it could be a good game. I'll be rooting for France though, I always enjoy football when Zidane brings his best.

Thank you! I was wondering if they moved South Africa when I wasn't looking the way they were talking about how hot it was going to be. Dear sweet God I hope they get some semi-competent talking heads for the next Cup. ESPN/ABC's band of idiots have been excrutiating.


GO FRANCE!!!! I wanna see Zidane win 2 more games to go out like the champion he is. Love watching him play. Absolutely loathing Italy and Portugal also makes France a bit easier to root for.

Yay for a game that was decided by the players in regulation/overtime and not by overzealous refs or shootouts.  Was rooting for the Germans but have to give it up for the Italians.

Any chance FIFA will clone that ref for all future international matches... or at least force the other refs to watch the game footage to see how it's supposed to be done?

(And throw me in with the 'never-thought-I'd-say-it-but-COME-ON-FRANCE!' crowd... Zidane 4tw)

For a second there, I misread your crest as saying "We Do Not Solo".

Maybe I'm just tired :P

Speaking of tired....TIRED OF WAITING FOR THE NEXT BOOK, GRRM!!!

We have thread titles for a reason.  I know you're bored, but please attempt to stay remotely on topic at least once.

re:  my comments on who I've pulled for and why.

I didn't mind Argentina or Brazil because neither of them are in Europe, and Argentina played at least one half of every game at the level everyone else has just started picking themselves up to.  Also Tevez/Messi are such a joy to watch, Requelme isn't too shabby either.

I hate France because they are France, asking me to explain that is just asinine.  Oh yeah, the fact that most of their players aren't even French is annoying.

Therefore I am now pulling for Portugal (who aren't nearly as bad a bunch of divers or thugs as people have been saying suddenly imo) to beat the stuffing out of France and somehow get Italy to a shootout so their keeper can stand on his head and win them the cup.  Plus Portugal has some truly talented individuals and on the odd occasion they actually try to play as a team they are a joy to watch.

With Germany being out, the only decent and sportmanlike team I have left to root for is France. Supporting cynical manipulators of the rules like Italy or Portugal would be like supporting Michael Schumacher and Ferrari, it would pollute my very soul, and damn me to hell for all eternity. As for France's players being the offspring of immigrants, well... that's never happened in another country.  :evil:

Hoax, you said you won't root for certain teams because they're in Europe and you don't want a team from Europe to win.  Fair enough.   You said you wouldn't mind Argentina or Brazil, because they're not in Europe.  Now you say you're pulling for Portugal.  Where exactly do you think Portugal is? 

Just sayin'....

PS  Portugal aren't bad divers at all!  They're quite good at it, actually, though not to the level of Italy.  Italy has it down to a science.

They add a certain amount of thuggery though which makes up for their lack of acting skills.

Like Righ, I'm routing for France mostly due to the sportsmanship issue.  I was trying to get behind Brazil, but I just couldn't bear to watch another Shamu inspired dive from Ronaldo.

Damn, what a furious end to that game.

Pizza vs. croissants.  Oh boy oh boy.

Actually my original rooting strategy was anyone-who-hasn't-won-the-cup-before, hence Portugal.

This final is about as bad as it can get, I wonder if I'll even bother to watch...

Amen to that Righ, Italy and Portugal are diver teams. Irony is that France beat Portugal with Henry diving  :evil:

Portugal had more attacking opportunites and Figo made a meal of that screw up by Barthez.
I don't know why the commentator was ranting on how good and safe Barthez's hands were, in the Brazil game he made 3 screw ups in the last 20 minutes that could have given an equaliser to Brazil. ah well

Go France and Germany!  :-D

The PK was a legit foul.

My favorite was late in the game there was a cross with Ronaldo and another guy in the box and they both simultaneously hit the ground without any contact whatsoever.   It was beautiful.

actually there was one replay, that was only played when Henry got substituted, that really showed what happened. The defender did touch henry's foot, but he made it out of the tackle without falling down than after he saw he can't reach the ball he fell down. I won't argue, there was a foul, what I'd argue is the referee calling that. It was a ticky-tack foul, that 9 out of 10 referees won't call a penalty on, and decide the game (which is exactly what happened). It was lame. And tbh France had only one other real chance to score, they really didn't deserve to win this game... but sigh, that's football for you.  Also, Portugal are not thugs, they had 2 red cards in the last 2 years, both of them against the Netherlands.

Anyway, it's a good final. The golden France generation will have one last go at it and Italy, one of the two true European historical football superpowers, was due for a final (they are there every 12 years - 82, 94 and now 2006). I'm defo rooting for them, I just fucking hate how arrogant French players (and people in general tbh) are.

Rooting for France would be great, actually quite l33t given the reputation of the French. And rooting for Italy, well, that's just your typical Italian male.

Now read that again in my local vernacular ...

http://psy.otago.ac.nz/r_oshea/FUN%20STUFF/oztaboo.html
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/root


That would take some doing!
http://english2american.com/dictionary/cat_sex.html
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pull

I'm going to pull for France, because they're old and may need some help with that kind of thing. But I'll probably get drunk and wake up in a strange place after rooting for Italy. Oh well.

I thought the very same thing...until I saw it from another angle and could see that not only did the defender have one foot on Henry's foot, but he flat out smacked him across the shins with his other leg (ball no where to be seen).  I agree that Henry then did a bit of a dive, but the fact of the matter - in my eyes at least - was that Henry was almost certain to score and the defender impeded.   In my book, that is the very definition of a deserved penalty kick.  It wasn't ticky tack...it prevented an almost certain goal.

I don't know about the penalty. Let's just say that it was lame that the game was won and lost only on it. Certain goal? Not so much, a shot on goal yeah but you never have certain goal as Figo quite resourcefully proved :)

By "certain" I mean in the relative context.  He would have at least had a golden opportunity, probably nearly as good a chance as your average penalty kick.  Whatever, he appeared to have a lot of room to work with right in front of the goal and no defenders in close proximity.  In my head, this is what PKs should be granted for.

Edit:  For the sake of comparison, you recall the Italian PK that got them past the Aussies?  Good call according to the rules (I suppose), but total bullshit in my mind.   

Yes, Tale, it all sounds weird to me, too, and rooting makes people sound like rent boys or pigs.   With people rooting and pulling all over the place, you have to just forget what you think you know and go with what it means in the American vernacular.  Today is moving day and even by Sunday I shall still be busy and much to weary to pull a whole football team and root them.

i.e. you'll be rooted.

And then I'll be knackered.

Shhh they are thugs and divers, that's the way it is.  I would be truly dissapointed in the match if the Portugese hadn't responded to having a pk awarded against them by diving all over the box to try to get their own.  It was by far and away the worst display I've seen from them all cup.  They also were screwed as they have been all cup  by Figo and Miguel on the right side of their offense.  Figo just didn't have it in him to be a star this cup and never looked sharp.  His best performances would net them a corner many didn't even accomplish that.  Here's hoping for their sakes that they have someone worthy of lining up opposite of Rinaldo come 2010.  Miguel would show flashes of brilliant ball movement and speed but I swear that guy choked on 8/10 passes and 10/10 if said pass was into the box.

 

You'd be bollocksed as well.

Yay France! Have I mentioned how much I enjoy watching Zidane play? The ball looks like it is on a string tied to his foot. Ribery is gonna be really good too, it looks like. If he can learn to temper his enthusiasm enough to last an entire match  :-D


It was sadly predictable, and pathetic to watch. Ronaldo himself was ready for the Summer Olympics with all the diving practice he got. I am just glad the referee (who made a shambles of the Italy/USA game) didn't fall for their bush league 'tactics' this time.

You must not have watched the Netherlands game, or the one against France last night. It was getting downright silly for a while there, and luckily the ref didn't buy it too much. I will say though, Ronaldo is a helluva talent. That motherfucker is just lightning fast. But Zidane... I can see why they call him the Maestro. That was just beautiful. How does a guy get that good a PK with only a 3-step drop? If my wife wasn't Italian, I'd be rooting for them.

Portugal has very snappy uniforms at least.  Who would think a France-Italy encounter would be such a fashion disaster?

I really dig the Portugese colors. I just wish the players inhabiting them weren't such total douchebags.

I just watched France's evening news (got a digital channel that shows foreign bulletins 24/7) and they had a funny highlights package of the Portugese dives and the "lol what a movie star" reactions from France's coach. First 20 minutes of the news was all football stories, then the Tour de France, then Amelie Mauresmo at Wimbledon, then some political stories :)

I was listening to the Guardian podcast yesterday. A pretty good daily show they have on their website covering the games coming up, the previous games, and commentary from all sorts of people. Anyways...

They brought up some interesting facts about the tournament so far. For example, there's only been 20 games where both teams have scored, out of 62 games played. Already there's been 3 games decided on penalties. No one has scored a hat trick. There haven't really been any emerging, breakout new talents on display. 141 goals. While any World Cup is always exciting, the predominant mood seems to be that this one is turning out to fall a little flat.

A lot of the complaints around the excitement of the games centered around the prevailing formation (or variants) of 4-4-2 with 2 defensive holding midfielders... essentialy 4-2-2-1. I've also been reading a fair amount of editorials with various ideas on how to liven things up again, bring up the amount of goals scored, etc. Some of them are a little extreme. Things like reducing the team size to 10 men, or changing the offside rule to work like hockey's icing with a three-line rule. Actually, the three-line rule I think might be worth experimenting with. When I play in indoor leagues, it works pretty well. I can't see how it would effect things too, too terribly on a normal pitch. Who knows... but at the least, it might be worth experimenting with in some exhibition matches or something.

Some of the others though, I thought sounded pretty reasonable. Increasing the size of the pitch for one, which would free up a lot more space, and spread the game out, opening more attacking oppurtunities. The size of Barcelona's pitch at the Camp Nou (107m x 72m) was used as an example of how a huge playing field resulted in some really fun, attacking football. The other one was increasing the size of the goals. The average goalie these days is something like 6'3", using goal dimensions from when they were barely closer 5'9" or so (the numbers are a little hazy). Stretch the corners out another... 4-6 inches, and you've got more chances.

I dunno... it seemed they all had some decent points. And it's something to talk about until Sunday. :)

I like having two ref's and four linesmen.  The rest of that stuff is for the birds.

Mmm, yeah. That's probably the best one. But that only solves the problems with bad calls during the games. It won't change the tactics of teams though to go for midfield containment instead of attacking the box. But maybe it's really not the responsibility of FIFA or the IFAB to try to influence tactics by changing the rules around.

This one's pretty funny. Props if you can read Portugeuse.

Watch in real time as Roberto Carlos decides to retire from international football: http://globoesporte.globo.com/ESP/0,,AG32062-6093,00.html

Better use of that link, click Otras Gallarias and click on Portugal x France...

So what did it say, Carlos fucked up by not paying attention to Henry?

Not simply not paying attention but basically just staying in one spot with his hands on his knees while france scored.

I don't know what to think but this is the most SURREAL match I've ever seen.

After the first minute one France player nearly faints, minutes of downtime, then a yellow card, then back to the game only for a penalty that looked really unsure (in the replay it seems there was no contact at all, but it wasn't clear), with Zidane mocking Totti's way of kicking it. Every couple of seconds someone falls down and the game stops and then a goal for Italy scored by Materazzi who risked own goal a minute before and even caused the penalty.

Just crazy.

It has evened up now. Looked like France could more easily have been given a penalty for that other challenge in the box, but the ref decided not to give it. Now they have a fair half-hour battle for the Cup.

Unless they want to rely on penalties, France need a more attacking formation in extra time. Twice they have just needed one extra man in Italy's box to score. Italy just needs to keep doing what it's doing and hope it works. If France do go more on the attack, Italy will have more room too.

I might sound biased, but if you want to watch a Surreal game check out Australia's first round game with Croatia.

This game is interesting, funny I should be behind Italy, but after the way their second round game with Australia ended I'm more of a casual viewer, and don't really care who wins, I'm just watching to see a good game. And Ralli Ratsic's sterling commentary.

ah well. 90mins, 6am. Time to go watch the last 30mins from bed. Night!

With a definite superiority of France for the first part of the second half. Really great defence for Italy.

Now it's all about who has more stamina or lose concentration. Or the penalties at the end.

I have set up a "bed" in my lounge room in front of the TV. Fortunately I don't have to work until 2pm today :)

Lol. Are you sure? (Zidane losing his mind)

Wow nice headbutt from Zidane heheh  :-o

Too bad that ends his career I guess. 

Disgraceful headbutt from Zidane. What the hell did Materazzi say to prompt that sort of reaction from somebody as level-headed as Zidane usually is? Pressure, emotions and and fatigue I suppose.

Not questioning the red card here, but I am wondering what the italian player said to Zidane right before the headbutt ?

edit: In other words, what Righ said ...

The Guardian says: "Materazzi's crime was to, erm, tweak Zidane's nipple. I kid you not."

http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/minbymin/0,,1788448,00.html

Also, I wouldn't call it a "nice headbutt". That would have been forehead to brow. It was a shockingly effete and substandard headbutt. :-P

France looked much better in the midfield and on the attack. Italy were fantastic in defence. The PK for France was doubtful. The denied one probably should have been one however. Shame it comes down to PKs. With Zidane off and Buffon in goal, Italy should have a slight edge here.

Headbutt action:

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/6720/zidane4qf.gif

Shoulda posted in green then, but on second thought it was nice for a frenchman :p

But yeah totally stupid thing to do when you know you are gonna hurt your team, being their best PK player and everything.

Guess it don't matter when your goaltender sucks.  Divers win.

And so Italy win, and go home world champions, to be demoted to third division players. Congratulations. :)

I get the impression Zidane realised about quarter of a second too late what he had been goaded into, hence the fucked up non-violent violence, still, the italian's fall was as impressive as ever.

Bit of a shame the way the game ended up with the result that it did, for a final it actually wasn't that bad.

Someone really does need to think of a better way to end these things though.

That shit was so funny.

I hate Italy.
Yes, I hate my country. It happens.

Would hate to be Zidane right now, can't imagine how much shit he is gonna hear after that.   If they had pulled out the win anyway without him it would have been bad enough but losing like that in the final game... ouch.

None of those players will stay in their actual club. Actually, they will be sold elsewhere and will get better wages being World Champions.
You could say that they will benefit from the demotion of their teams.

Commentator on Australian TV said at the start of the game that Zidane had signed a multi-million dollar commentary contract with French TV station Canal +. Wonder how that sits now?

(http://www.ecosyn.us/A_Vigilante_Story/PistolsBroderickDuel.JPG)
?

Full Zidane nipple tweak and headbutt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBV52GPhNjw&feature=Recent&page=6&t=t&f=b

http://youtube.com/watch?v=j1i_l0OeeMc&feature=Recent&page=1&t=t&f=b

Heh. Love the "Pourquoi? Pourquoi?

I think he's saying "mais pourquoi?" ("but why?"). The Dutch clip shows the nipple tweak, but the French clip is from behind so the commentator is still trying to figure out why Zidane was offended.

Its impossible to see a nipple tweak from either angle, but zidane does tug on his jersey like hes telling him not to do that.  I think the dude just pulled on his shirt.

I don't think so. The first video (Dutch language) shows it was more of a feel-up than a shirt-pull and possibly a nipple tweak. Zidane was then heading back into play, but the Italian must have said something as he passed which made him turn around. All calculated to have the resulting effect and get Zidane off the field.

Meh i see a shirt grab and then the other dudes head completely blocks it.  If it had been a tweak i would expect the reaction to have been inmediate rather than after exchanging words.

What I'm thinking is that having ruffled Zidane with the pull/tweak and the initial exchange of words, Materazzi muttered something offensive like "and I bet you enjoyed it, faggot", or racist (Zidane aka Zin ad-Din Zidan is of Algerian descent).

I was rooting for the French...at least it was a close game, which is really all you could have asked for.

I can only guess it was something about Zidane's mother. Because otherwise, that was a completely shitty way to cap off a career.

A compilation of some of Materazzi's antics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKGcUr0S-FU

Holy crap. What a thug. It makes the confrontation with Zidane seem less one-sided for sure.

Regardless, Zidane should know better. I wouldn't say it cost them the game... the game was aching for France to finish it off way before he went walking. Sub in some more strikers to pile into the box, and they would have had one easy. Too bad Saha got suspended this game, him and Trezeguet both running around up there with Henry would have shut that game down. I blame Domenech for the loss, more than anything. Zidane's headbutt was just a strange fluke.

I'm really just bemused with the contrast in Zidane's game. He opens the game up with the most cocky penalty kick and pulls it off. Pure class, and chuztpah. Then he goes and levels someone onto the pitch when his team needs every player they have, and it's looking like PKs.

I hope Cannavora gets player of the tournament. He was the best player throughout, always on form, always involved. Really good stuff from him. I loved how he was totally cool and stonefaced during the penalties. His teammates would pump their arms after each one Italy nailed, but he just stood there waiting. Very resolute. Great stuff.

No, Zinedine has been awarded with the title "best player of the tournament". FIFA obviously thinks that headbutting players is OK, maybe that is what Frings should have done instead of just bitch slapping the argentinian? ;-)

The internet wins:

(http://de.fishki.net/picsp/france_italy_48.gif)

.....

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8770/125e067ac32841a86fc20e71015e58.gif)

While that was interesting that isn't proof of dick tbh.  I'm sure you could find a similar video for almost every single defender at the pro level.

Although I agree that he's probably not the worst in terms of intent, he's definately the best in flair and execution.

Apparently the voting was done at half time.

So....

LOL

Did the other bloke die?

Actually, the voting is usually done at half-time and the award made immediately following the cup presentation. From what I've read, the voting actually took place after the match this year.

(http://www.tshirts365.com/store/thumbNail.asp?size=200&image=/store/catalog/ZidV_detail.gif)

Wow. Even ignoring the headbutt, I don't think he was the best player throughout the tournament. He was practically invisible in the group stages, and just had one and a half amazing performances at the end. It's not fair to the other players who were stellar throughout. Like Cannovaro, Jens Lehmann, or maybe even Philip Lam.

What about Buffon?  The guy was rock solid throughout giving up only the goal to France in the finals (and an own goal). No love for the keepers.

 

I did mention Lehman...

But hell yeah, Buffon rocked. Ricardo did a great job between the posts too. The point being there are several players all over the pitch who I thought had a better tournament than Zidane. I guess even the guys voting at FIFA get star-struck and go for the mainstream, populist choices.

The people voting were the international press, and it's my presumption that they wanted to hand a "thank you and goodbye" to one of the greatest players of our time, and that their votes weren't for what Zidane did in the cup, good or bad. It's a somewhat underhanded move, but it wasn't a particularly special World Cup tournament anyhow. Fortunately, in four years time, most of us will have forgotten how much the whole thing annoyed us, and we'll get caught up in the euphoria again.

I'm putting a bunch of money in a CD for 3 years and fully intend to be in South Africa for the 2010 cup, otherwise I would probably never go to anywhere in Africa so it is a win-win.

Isn't that the truth? I am going to try keep up with the EPL a bit more now as well- I was a big Man U fan until they got rid of Beckham. Not sure if I can root for them now unless C. Ronaldo goes away. I fucking hate that diving little bitch.


How will you survive the brutal African summer heat?

I'm glad he got best player.  I hope everyone who has anything to do with football is really, really pissed off about it and it festers for the next four years.  World Cup 2010 should be a bloodbath.

You could just cheer for Liverpool like real men.  :evil:

Actually, I'm considering adding DirecTV's Sports Pack onto my service. For $12 a month, I get an asston of all sports channels, including all the regional Fox Sports channels (lots of regional baseball coverage), as well as Fox Sports Socceer Channel, which has about 240 EPL games, Itaian and German league games and some other stuff.

Apparently Materazzi called Zidane a "dirty terrorist" (http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldFootballNews&storyID=2006-07-10T163843Z_01_L10406204_RTRIDST_0_SPORT-SOCCER-WORLD-FRANCE-ZIDANE.XML) but he's ignorant and doesn't know what it means (http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=sportsNews&storyID=2006-07-10T173324Z_01_L10426945_RTRUKOC_0_UK-SOCCER-WORLD-FRANCE-ZIDANE-MATERAZZI.xml), so it wasn't racist. What does this mean for the FIFA anti-racism campaign? (http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/matt_foot/2006/07/zidane_an_injustice_waiting_to.html)

Yeah, I have had the soccer channel since it was Fox Sports World. I recently upgraded to make sure I had TVG as well; daddy needs his gamblin' fix  :-P

As for Liverpool- meh. I still like Scholes and Giggs and Keane and Tim Howard for Man U. Rooney I am not sure about yet. He seems douche-y, but he is a hell of a lot of fun to watch. Van Nistelrooy scored 3 goals when I saw him play in Seattle a couple of years ago, so he is ok too. I am still getting to know some of the lesser known guys through Winning Eleven 9 (X-box). Very cool game.

Edited to respond to Righ-

Like I needed another reason to fucking loathe the Italian team. Between them and the Portuguese they really uglied up this Cup badly.

Not excusing his diving (which seemed to have reached a peak at the World Cup), but he's still a fantastic and amazing player. I've been a Man. U fan for awhile... and frankly I hope we keep him. He's going to get tons of stick from opposition fans, but he's a huge talent. Hopefully with Fergusson back in charge of him, with teammates like Neville and Scholes they can put him back on track. I'd hate to see him tuck tail and run off to Real Madrid.

And a hearty recommendation for Fox Soccer Channel. If the World Cup has done anything to pique your interest in soccer, it's pretty much the only way to follow what constitutes the "normal" soccer world between major tournaments. Club level games are often more exciting than World Cup matches. The FA Cup final with Liverpool and West Ham, for example... one of the best football matches I've seen all year. My only complaint about the channel is they don't show any games from La Liga at all. Which is a shame, since they seem to be drawing some great talent away from England lately(Robben, rumors of Fabregas, V.Nistelerooy, and maybe even C.Ronaldo). And the big EPL matches are always pay-per-view... which sucks. I don't wanna pay $25 to watch Liverpool take on Man U... but hey, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do.

If you pinch someone's nipple and call them a dirty terrorist, you deserve a headbut to the chest at the very least.  Zidane for Prime Minister.  Of Earth.

That's assuming that South Africa is able to actually host it. I keep thinking of Colombia '86.

noone likes my funny gifs :(

I did.  They've done the rounds of the work already.

:)

The flash game is the best, tho  (http://clients.eightart.com/zidane.swf)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2slJ9CBnk0&search=zidane

Here's a great angle of the headbutt. You can see him tugging Zidane's shirt, and you can see how he's looking away when it's coming, and totally gets laid out. No playacting there.

Well there are rumours that South Africa will lose the 2010 World Cup because they are years behind schedule. USA might host the 2010 cup instead because they are one of only a few countries that might be able to pull of the org in 4 years. Germany was also considered but they will not want to award one country with the chance to host a cup two times in a row.

I wouldnt stress too much about any South AFrica wont be ready in time rumours - they always happen before any big sporting events, and we do have 4 years to go.  Remember all the carryon about 6 weeks before the Athens olympics in 2004 because noone thought they would be ready in time.  But they sorted it out and it went fine.  The Africans will do great. 

On a related note, gotta love the jingoism of the Australian press.  After a good run in this world cup, the local press is already pushing for bids for hosting 2014 or 2018. 

Good. Oceania has never hosted the cup, and should get preference over similarly capable bids. Also, Australia has more usable stadiums already in place than most candidates, although they are spaced quite far apart.

Mixed feelings about that. Be great to be able to attend the games, but our current popularity in the world coupled with our mediocre national team might make it far less fun. Gimme 12 years to wash the taste of GWB out of the world's mouth and for Freddie Adu to grow up  :evil:

Not to mention asking the world to trust our security enough to prevent an attack on an obvious terrorist target. Probably not going to happen for the next 20 years.

USA's start times would be prime time in Europe, to throw  the money side of the equation out there.

Security is an moot point, it's a risk wherever you put it.

Some side notes:

According to the BBC, Materazzi said, "I wish an ugly death to you and all your family," and then told Zidane to "go fuck yourself". (http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/story/0,,1817551,00.html)

The momentum has already started for the "No South African World Cup" movement. From South Africans, no less. (http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/story/0,,1815122,00.html)

Following the fiasco through which the 2006 cup was given to Germany, FIFA have set up a process by which the cups are allocated to a continent on a rotating schedule, at least until 2014.

The 2014 cup has been allocated to south America, with Brazil strong favourites as they have CONMEBOL support - they do have a problem with providing adequate stadia though, and as yet no announced plans to fix that. It would be a surprise if Brazil don't get it, and utterly astounding if South America don't get the tournament at this point.

2018 hasn't been allocated to a continent as yet, and you can find a pretty good wiki on the runners and riders here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_World_Cup_2018) (countries with an announced interest are Australia, England, Mexico, Netherlands & Belgium (jointly), and Spain).

The favourites at this point are England. Reasoning thus...

Mexico last hosted too recently (1986) and are too close to S America which will host in 2014.
Australia don't *currently* have sufficient stadia (too many of the big stadia are cricket/aussie-rules ovals - which are unlikely to be easy to pass off as football stadia to FIFA).
Spain hosted too recently (1982).
Netherlands and Belgium are jointly bidding, FIFA have a passionate hatred of the joint bid concept after the political debacle that preceded Korea/Japan (or was that Japan/Korea?), and they don't have sufficient large stadia.

Also, of the European bids, much of the UEFA hierarchy seems to be leaning toward England simply on an 'it's their turn' basis.

I would be mildly surprised if in 2018 the whole shebang doesn't roll up in either England or Australia (massive stadia building programme permitting).

I honestly can't see Australia building a bunch of stadiums just for the soccer. The game is just not that big or important here for governments to justify the massive spending on single-purpose venues that won't get a much reuse as ones that can fit all four of Cricket/Aussie Rules/Rugby/Soccer in them.

It'll happen here eventually, and it'll happen with the vast majority being the current venues that we have today. If not Australia in 2018, then probably 2024.

Screw England. They've had it before. It's time to upgrade Firhill, Tannadice and Pittodrie parks and have it north of the border.

Maybe Australia can build a bunch for football and then use them for rugby and cricket after.  They might even be big enough for beer and wet tee shirt contests!  They won't go to waste. 

I think a World Cup in Glasgow would be way too fun for my heart! 

If they give it any of the UK, I will do my level best to be there for at least some of the games.

The next strange thing is the updated FIFA world rankings: Australia placed in the top 16 in the World Cup, but is now ranked 33rd in the world, behind many teams who did not even qualify for the tournament (although up nine places). Japan fell 31 places to 49th in the world despite being in the World Cup round of 32, and similarly Korea was dropped 27 places to 56th. Surely they have to drop this system.

I think this is the new system, the top 10 sounded pretty good to me but yeah dropping S.Korea that far (if at all) smacks of utter retardation.  At this point using the BCS would be an upgrade.

They should just let journalists vote for who they think the best national teams are, and Blatter can nullify the votes later.

I don't think anyone really gives a crap about world rankings.

They don't drive the seeding systems and so they don't really matter.

Actually they do. The seeding for the 2006 World Cup tournament was derived from the world rankings at three fixed points from each of the prior three years as well as the results from the two prior World Cup tournaments. I'm not entirely sure how the seeding for the next one is being done, but I'm sure it will be along similar lines.

The seeding system gets rewritten each time from scratch according to whom fifa wants to see in the seed positions, at most world cups it has been based on a points system driven by the round each team reached at each of the last 3 world cups. Again, the points system changed each time.

The formula can pretty much be considered a bad joke.

Note how teams such as the US which everyone knows full well are overranked by the rankings *just* missed out on the seeded places by a couple of points. What a fortunate coincidence.

I wasn't joking, a BCS-style system would be a million times better then the horseshit politics-driven FIFA favoritism bullshit we have now.

Well in terms of the seeding, it mostly works.

It would be hard to argue with the 8 seeds this time around (bar Mexico).

This seemed like the best place to post this, Splinter Cell: Zidane Edition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbE-sNsR_vo)

Yeah, that was some funny shit.

I tied with Ivory Coast last night versus S&M in our 6-man world cup recreation using the ps2 game...  Which put S&M through after Argentina lost all 3 of their games (it was really bad luck for him, but he also has France and Brazil so whatever).  I'm very pissed off.  But yeah I remember we were talking about this video game a bit somewhere, it does kick a great deal of ass when people become pro at defense as well as offense.  If I could just get the AI to work a bit better on both sides of the ball w/ regards to offsides, turn auto-switch off completely and give a bit more visual indication on free-kicks it might be perfect.  Oh the keeper always diving on the ball is annoying as shit too.

Somehow though the next version will break 2 things that were fine before and fix only one of those three problems.  I give it two thumbs up for any console owning household that has a steady supply of people to play against.  This is the most fun I've had with a sport's game since our 6-12 man NHL2002 tournaments.

Um, no. Too small.
They can just use the existing stadium and add more low-level seating like they did for the Olympics. We don't need arenas for beer and wet t-shirts, though you might want to check out http://www.blokesworld.com/ (http://www.blokesworld.com/)

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060713132152AAFSlyI (http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060713132152AAFSlyI)

lyrics
Coup de Boule
Attention c'est la danse du Coup de Boule!
(Coup de boule, coup de boule)
Coup de boule à droite
(Coup de boule, coup de boule)
Coup de boule à gauche
(Coup de boule, coup de boule)

Allez les bleus!
Allez,
Zidane il a frappé, Zidane il a tapé (Coup de boule!)* 4x

Le rital, il a eu mal
Zidane il a frappé
l'Italien ne va pas bien
Zidane il a tapé
L'arbitre l'a vu à la télé
Zidane il a frappé
Mais la coupe on l'a ratée
On a quand même bien rigolé

Zidane il a frappé, Zidane il a tapé (Coup de boule!) 4x

Trezeguet n'a pas joué
Quand il a joué il a raté
Il a tout fait capoté
La coupe on l'a ratée
Barthez n'a rien arreté
C'est pourtant pas compliqué
Les sponseurs sont tous fâchés
Mais Chirac a bien parlé

Zidane il a frappé, Zidane il a tapé (Coup de boule!) 4x

Attention c'est la danse du Coup de Boule!
(Coup de boule, coup de boule)
Coup de boule à droite
(Coup de boule, coup de boule)
Coup de boule à gauche
(Coup de boule, c

===========================

Head Butt

Watch out, it's the head butt dance
Head butt, head butt
Head butt on the right
HB, HB
HB on the left
HB,HB

Come on the Blues!
Come on
Zidane has hit, Zidane has struck
HB....

The Iti was hurt
Zidane has hit
The Italian's not well
Zidane has struck
The ref saw it on tv
Zidane has hit
We lost the cup
But we had a good laugh

Zidane has hit, Zidane has struck HB....

Trezeguet didn't play
When he played he messed up
He wrecked it all
We lost the cup
Barthez didn't stop a thing
Even though there was nothing hard
The sponsors are all furious
But Chirac spoke well

Zidane hit, Zidane struck HB...

Look out it's the head butt dance etc (as Before)

The final spoiler:




























































... it was his sister ...link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/5315618.stm).

Zidane showed quite some restraint then given the cultural background he is from.

Either that, or given the fact he's a grown-up, he really ought to act like one.

Seriously, players sledge harder than that in Cricket, and yet even over a five day match, you don't get this kind of crap. In cricket, you get fined your match fee just for giving the umpire a funny look. Football needs some of that shit.

People make way too many excuses for footballers.

But then Cricket players don't run around trash talking the sister of other players either. Lets say that more than one player should have acted grown up here, and I put the original blame squarely on the one that started it.

You're kidding right? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sledging_(cricket)) And it's not just the current Aussies who do it. Folks like Trueman and Boycott were rather famous for it too.

Ok, I stand corrected. What does a continental European know about cricket anyway. "The wife is fine, but the kids are retarded". Nice comeback. See thats how you are supposed to react to something like that. But having a sister myself, I know the feeling that you want to headbutt the shit out of the offending party. No excuse and I would never do it, but I am not all that surprised if somebody does.

Cricket players have more time to think up snappy come-backs.