f13.net

According to sites like http://www.warcraftrealms.com/ (http://Warcraft Realms) most Servers have some kind of Horde/Alliance imbalance. On most servers Alliance outnumbers Horde although the ratio might differ from server to server. Some servers are nearly balanced (1,2:1 in favor to Alliance) while on some others Horde is outnumbered (1,7 - 2:1). One can argue as to the validity of the numbers these sites produce but in my opinion these numbers are at  least a rough approximation of real numbers (although Blizzard denies that)

Now the first european server is about to be killed because of Alliance outnumbering horde. On german frostwolf players favor Alliance over horde in such a way that less than 20% of the players on frostwolf are horde (according to the census sites) since it is a PvP server those few horde players have a really hard time playing. Remember the Tarren Mill zergfests? On frostwolf Alliance usually camps the entrance of Orgrimmar or Undercity and the major instance portals without much resistance. This leads to more and more horde players leaving the server and will in due time lead to only alliance players playing. How is the situation in the US are there servers who bleed people because of one side outnumbering the other?

Jeff

If we talk about non-PvP servers, as a Horde player I think this imbalance is great.

Until now it has been brutal with the zerging at TM.  But as last night Warsong instance showed - Alliance lost every fight I was involved with or heard about.  The numerical superiority of Alliance makes them fat.  And that makes for a lot of fun for Horde players in balanced encounters in a pvp instance.

Last night's victories over alliance were so ubiquitous people in the que expressed open genuine concern that maybe Alliance would stop entering the instance.

I like the imbalance because - my prediction - is that it will give Horde players more opportunities to instance pvp since there will be many Alliance players waiting for a fight.

It is yet another facet of an online game that blizzard didn't think about.  They should have implemented a side balancing mechanic on player creation.  They didn't.  It's going to suck from here on in.

Well magtheridon has a alliance/horde imbalance ratio of 1.3/1 in terms of character number, but a 1.8/1 (80% more) in terms of activity of 50+ players.

The imbalance is noticeable in that frequently you go somewhere and thiers usually alliance but frequently no horde, but the imbalance isn't so severe that you feel helpless, at least not most of the time.

I have worried about this "snowball" effect of horde players leaving as well, on a pvp server i could only see it becoming worse over time once one side gets a really decisive advantage, though i can't really think of any solution, and apparently, neither could blizzard.

The imbalance on my server is highly noticeble, both in the huge cliched mass of alliance outside TM, and the item packed Azerothian Walmart that is their AH. It's Euro patch day today and so far our Alterac BG hasnt even started yet, as you need a minimum number of people on each side in the queue.

What horde are PVPing are probably in the (35+ mins so far) CTF queue. It will get better im sure but right now its a bit of a farce.

Holy crap some of those servers are out of balance.


That must be one boring server.

There's not a single Horde player on that server running the census mod i guess.

My server lists alliance outnumbering us 70/30, which feels about right.  I hope the alliance are enjoying their queues. The horde ones are bad enough, but over on the other side they will be so long the alliance have taken to dressing up as Star Wars characters, sleeping rough and running their own queue experience blogs.

Let's take a another look at imblance:

What if after several weeks of Warsong instances, Alliance continues to lose consistently against the Horde?

Right now, to their credit, a number of Alliance players see the Horde as having better strategies after being zerged for so long at TM.  If this reasoning is correct, as they state, it should wins should equalize in a few weeks as Alliance learns to play proper pvp.

If Horde victories continue does this mean that Horde racials are overpowered, or the shaman is overpowered, and should be nerfed?

I see two unrelated issues here:

1.  Alliance Class Frequency - Paladins.  Paladins are ubiquitous and not often played in a group support role.  The very frequency of this class choice may be impairing alliance performance, which has nothing to do with Horde being overpowered.

2.  If the Shaman or Horde racial abilities receive a nerf - this can only FURTHER decrease the number of players choosing this side to play.  The implications from there need no stating.

It will balance out.  The 'winning' disparity, that is.

The actual amount of A vs H probably won't.  For that they need to think why it exists in the first place.

You all talk as if Alliance is always the bigger force. On my server it's 1:1.7 in the favor of horde. Had I known this when I went to barrens last night to do my Succubus quest I wouldn't of tried to help the stupid level 30 group that went after a 50-60 shaman. I was surprised I made it anywhere close to barrens having ran past tons of horde players.

We outnumbered prolly around 1.8 - 1 on shadowmoon (we being horde) but we are better overall PVPers...

Yeah.  So ?

Sorry I had my own opinion.

The truth is Nix, on your average server the Horde is woefully outnumbered. My solution to fixing this would be to offer xp bonuses to the horde sides. Preferrably I'd like to see an incremental bonus to the amount of rest time earned in an 8 hour period depending on the overall imbalance. Show the catasses they can level to 60 faster and becoming battle ready sooner. You might get some converts.

This is one of the things Mythic tried to balance populations in DAoC. Not much effect. You draw some "tourists" who want to quickly roll up the latest fotm, but rarely those players stay for the long haul.

DAoC is probably a good lesson for Blizzard as Mythic tried unsuccesfully several techniques to balance things out.

Just like now in WoW BGs, in DAoC RvR the overpopulated realm (mostly Albion) seriously underperformed and the smaller realms (usually Hibernia) could match the opposition without much trouble. Albion became the skill-less "zerg" realm, while Hibernia developed into a tightly-knit effective fighting force. End result: balance in the frontiers, as long as the population difference isn't *too* big.

Considering I played Hibernia on the Lancelot server (we were vastly underpopulated) I know how it goes to be the underdog. Mythic didn't really do what I'm talking about. They simply offered free level bonus starts to people that ALREADY had 50s on a server. See, to me your target audience is the people who haven't maxxed out yet. They aren't fully attached to the server and they could go either way if you give them a reason. Also, in a drastic scenario, I think they should offer character defections. Take whatever level you are now, and you can go to the Horde side with a level decrease and no loot.

they should add a few more BGs. then start to release server pop numbers to players. then make it clear to players trying to get into the battlegrounds that they are waiting because they are on the fat side on that server.  self interest makes people do the smart thing, but you got to give them enough information to make a self-interested decision.

At least Mythic had the sense to make sure that each realm had a human race option.  Even then, the realm population advantage went to the realm whose racial options were simply four shades of humanity.

Adding to WoW's WoE's is that the NEs are on the same side.

This isn't all Mythic did.

Mythic also give a free level of xp every x days where x varies by population balance. Underpopulated realms have reduced costs for keep siege hookpoints and npc guards. Underpopulated realms get a % bonus to RP, XP, BP, arti-XP and coin drop. Underpopulated realms get extra xp camp bonuses.

It still doesn't work.

Also, to the realm that doesn't look like ass. I played Alb, mostly because I almost always play an archer with my first character in these things, and Alb had the pure archer. When I went back to have a go at hibgard, I spent a fair bit of time wondering how the hell hibgard players put up with that crap.

From what I gather, WoW has similar though less pronounced issues.

In DAoC Mid/Hib have generally better and more interesting classes, level faster, have a better community and recieve a whole range of bonuses. Yet *still* Albion holds more people. The lesson is pretty simple:

Side choice is purely based on psychological factors. People pick what they can associate best with, so make sure they can associate equally well with ALL your games' sides.

For WoW it's allready too late to change the design. Blizzards solution to the imbalance problem has been to institute waiting lines, but frankly that's a pretty awful way to enforce balance.

Character defection is a more interesting one  :-)

A broader philosophical point might be raised here:

Is there an imbalance if one side is more powerful or more numerous than it should be?

I don't whether Horde racials or the shaman class are "overpowered".  That kind of argument misses the point.  The Horde is underpowered from a pragmatic point view that its population is barely sufficient to support the design intent of the game (us vs. them). 

Horde population can be increased through any number of simple measures:  offer more races on the Horde side; Offer another Class on the Horde side; increase the power of Horde Racials.

These are not simple measures.  However they buff the Horde side has to be nerfable, because once Alliance and Horde numbers get equal, they need to take the Horde advantages away and make things balanced. 

However they buff the Horde side has to be noticeable, too, in a big way, because otherwise it'll take years for people to switch.  It should be a big advantage, enough to entice people to drop their level 60 Alliance characters and start new Horde level 1's.

So, let's see, they need to add a big carrot to the Horde side that they can then take away without causing an uproar.  Doable?

Evil Elves.

I didn't play horde because I found their continent and quests to be incredibly boring. I fucking hate Kalimdor.

Of course, you can experience this same dullness on Alliance by starting a night elf character.

Say what? The only usable alliance racial is Shadowmeld, and it can be countered easily if the enemy knows what they're doing. WOTF and Warstomp >>> every other racial in existence.

Escape artist.. laff.


-- Z.

This idea has been kicked around more than one place.  Blood Elves = Horde Expansion race.  It'd probably work, too.

Horde dont need elves.  Not even sure if Blood Elves would really go horde side anyhow.  What we really need is: Goblins, Ogres, or maybe even Naga (Illadin joins the horde, brings his Naga in as a playable faction?)

Adding 3 races to the Horde side would be a good incentive only if they don't add anything to the Alliance side.  I don't see them doing that.  If each side gets 3 new playable races, people will continue to prefer the Alliance.  Goblins, Ogres, and Naga sound interesting, but so do Centaurs, Dryads, whatever those cute half-naked female/deer are, Ents, and a myriad other eye-candy options they cold go with for the Alliance.

Good idea but lots of folks who played during beta are on the alliance side.  They knew the stats - yet they still chose alliance.  During beta I heard at one point the NE population outnumbered the entire horde population.

I am tempted to meet this shallow comment by arguing horde racials are not overpowered and there are useful abilities on the Alliance side.  But this misses the point, so by all means, take this discussion to the Blizzard boards.  There are many there who enjoy that banter.

We are talking about adding incentives or changing mechanics to balance faction populations.  Increasing Horde racials is one idea - adding another class only for Horde side is another.  Heck even Evil elves might be worth a look.

What's your idea?

The Horde needs an evil human race. Some wildman race that left the Alliance because of the elves. I would join this race.

Barbarians would be cool.

Don't gnomes have a pretty useful racial?

Presenting a very small target in PVP aint a bad trait either.  Gnome rogues are a fucking pain to target (tab aint always reliable).

Escape artist - get out of a root free.

It's not all that useful really, since it has a casting time and a cooldown.  Ornate mithril boots (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=4544) are better, but I guess if you have a gnome warrior you get two get out of root free cards.

This is what horde needs:

1: Races that don't have a green/blue skin tone. 3 of the races already look pretty much the same. So no Ogres, no Goblins, etc. Seriously Undead, Orcs and Trolls look pretty similar from a distance.

2: Races with somewhat decent looking females. I hate to say it but this will draw more people in.

1:  You're on crack. If you can't tell an orc from a troll from an undead at the maximum draw distance you need some new glasses.  Blue skin tone didn't stop a half million people from rolling a night elf hunter, either.  I'm guessing even orange elves would be a huge seller.

2.  Yep, it's misisng the mangina factor.  Only race that you can make a moderately non-hideous character is undead and even then, it's still a rotting corpse.   If horde had a race that was slim with the options of a two tailed pink haircut and no tusks/body rot: goodbye population imbalance.

For my friends, it came down to the Alliance were the good guys and the Horde were the bad guys.  I spent a good hour trying to pound it into their head that good and evil is relative but they wouldn't change their side.

I can tell the difference, but my point is 3 of the 4 Horder races appear greenish/blueish. Orcs, Undead and Trolls look more similar than different when compared to the alliance races. All about the same size, about the same color, etc. The races are not nearly as distinct.

There is no problem with blue skin. The problem is every race looking the same. Horde has two races, Tauren and generic-looking blue/green average-sized humanoids.

They could make trolls look more like D&D trolls, with gnarled tannish skin and more animalistic features - more feral creatures. Or they could add a race that looked significantly different in size and skin tone. At the least they could make Orcs a bit taller, broader and beefier overall.

I don't think you can discount the fact that the Horde races look much less distinct than the Alliance ones.

They can remodel or add extra models to the undeads and the trolls, something without bones and with better hairdos for the undeads, and less fangs and scowling for the trolls.  It would help if they didn't slouch all the time, either.  That would make these existing races more attractive, so that when they add new ones, you don't have everyone playing blood elf females only.

Not only relative, but after playing WC3 you come out with the feeling that the Alliance is probably more decidedly on the bad side than the Horde.


Whatever they were to add would need to be explained in the MMO or be consistant with Warcraft lore.  Goblins, it has been decided, are competly neutral.  (Adding them to the Horde side would take some explaining around Gadgetzan, Winterfell and BB.)  Naga are anti-everyone for some reason I've never really understood, even after playing through WC3.  Ogres would be a very good choice, since they're supposed to be part of the Horde already. Their omission is kind of glaring and hasn't been addressed by Blizzard.  Kind of makes the whole Rexaar campaign in WC3 pointless.  Thus the speculation from many that it will be Blood Elves.  They joined Illidan because of their racial addiction to magic, but you could probably argue some segment of them would join the Horde. They are, after all, just looking out for themselves.

Also, the sad fact is that folks are shallow.  They want the eyecandy and a large portion of people won't play Horde because they're "Ugly" and, as gimpyone pointed out, also percieved as 'Evil' due to traditional fantasy prejudice.  Give them something 'cool' like Evil Elves and you'll have the same problem the Alliance has.. and likely even-out the population a bit.

Edit: Rogue sentences that wander to the end of paragraphs make me sadf

Do the responsible thing and rescind your driver's license.

Yah, alliance has racial distinction oozing out of every pore.  Humans, extra short humans, short humans that are also fat, and then finally blue, skinny humans with pointy ears.   Veritable Armor Hotdogs commercial right there.

That sounds more like the cover of an ACLU brochure.

*BADUMP*CHING*

Add evil humans, and some sort of death knight class.  When I came into WoW, I didn't want to be a member of some pigfaced race of savages, but I still wanted to be Horde.  So I started to make an undead warrior, until I realized I didn't want to be a humpbacked bastard with blue skin either.  Then I rolled a human pally.

Yeah, I think that would do it really.. Evil Humans + Dark/Chaos/Shadow/Black Knights + Sexy/Cutesy Ebil Elves will even out a lot of the imbalance problems. Even Ogres are doable, after all, how many factions of essentially PVE-Only player races are out there? Scarlet Crusade/Gnomish Lepers/Dark Iron Dwarves/Endless Trolls in STV etc, so Ogres would still be doable in this context..

They have less calories in them, 'cause they're Fish.

The problem is that most of the PVE races don't really fit the profile of the Horde, which isn't evil, just a collection of misplaced/misunderstood races that on the large just want to be left the fuck alone.

Naga, as I understand it, are twisted night elves.  The method of their creation probably makes them insane, which is why they're anti-everyone.

Funny thing is that I would have thought that joe gamer would want to play Horde because they're (perceived as) evil, goth, badass, etc.  I guess mangina trumps angst.  Who woulda thunk it.

However, with blood elves, you get angst along with your mangina.  4 teh win!

It's not like you are adding a sixth act to Hamlet, and literate junior high school student could write an explanation for any race joining any faction and have it be consistent with Warcraft lore.  "Thrall saves the [insert race here] princess from the evil demon kill'ja'lol'mok'thogg'magog'keke forming an alliance between their people for all time" and you're done.  Half of the shit in the game now makes no damn sense as it is.

My point with the PVE races was mostly discussing ogres and why the fact that they're aggro to everyone doesn't preclude them being a Horde race. I never played WC3 but I did finish WC2 and it's expansions, and from reading this thread, Ogres are part of the horde in both. \

As for motivation, a "dark"knight class doesn't have be set up in a retarded EQ-style "we're the dark elves of evil and we worship the dark god Inny of evil and in EQ2 we live in the city of evil called Freeport where all the town guards and trainers and so forth tell us that we should go out and evilly perform acts of pure evil because it's good to be evil.

All Horde races have warriors, all Horde races have priests/shamans/casters of various sorts, so the idea of "Horde Knight-guy who runs around in spiky plate armour with a giant frickin' sword and casting various spells of some kind for the good and the honor of his people is not much of a stretch, especially for an expansion pack, since the whole WC universe is built upon stuff sequentially. Nor is a Faction of the Elves Who Have Become Tired Of Their Persecution From Somethingorotherontheallianceside Who's Females Have Pink Hair and Huge Breasticles And Who's Males Are All Called Drizzzzzztle Instead Of Legolazzz a real stretch for a computer-game fantasy world. Not to mention that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon fits in with every one of these pulp-fantasy worlds we're discussing here..

Hell, even Warhammer, who has a long-established and filled-in Fantasy world which only slightly mostly resembles Early-Renaissance Europe retrofits shit like this all the time. The "World"of Warcraft is a positive lightweight compared to WFB's world in terms of history and background.

It's a game after all, not a work of high literature.

Az

Hmmmmm, Breasticles.

Ogres do belong to the Horde in WoW, they're just not a playable race (yet). There is an ogre outpost in Dustwallow Marsh which belongs to the horde, so at least one ogre tribe supports the Horde, very much like it's the case with the trolls.

Adding Ogres would solve nothing. Step 1 is identify the problem, Step 2 is solve it. Ogres don't solve any problem. They are just another monstrous looking ugly race. Adding more races just for the sake of adding more races isn't going to solve anything.

Alliance are the good guys, they have the reputation of having a more developed game overall, they are more popular already, they have hot females, and they have races people can identify with. (Humans)

I'm going to have to agree that adding Horde-y humans and Horde-y Manginals (i.e. Elves) would certainly give the Horde a legup on population balance, especially if the females are teh hawt. I can't help but feel sad that there are so many Night Elf players out there just screaming to come out of the closet.

I agreed with both the ebil humans and hentai elves points, but I also think that Ogres could be a big Horde Selling point (TM) as well, if done properly. One thing that the EQs did well at least was to use the Games Workshop (pre OK) template for how their ogres look. They look like big mofos that will tear your head off and eat your liver. Unfortunately the WoW ogres look like cartoon ass.

Az

I hate that perception.  It was inevitable I guess, thank you J.R.R.T.  I don't consider Horde any more evil than the Mongols or the Huns.

Well, fortunately, only the male Ogres seem to be in game.  Thus, they could make the female models hawt, kinda like Lineage 2's dwarves, but with mature hot females, not kids.  That would let players who wish to play something similar to their RL personna play Ogre males, and players who wish to "roleplay" play females.

I'd much rather see goblins as a playable race then stupid ogres.

Goblins only have about, oh, a BILLION TIMES more personality/ cool-points then ogres.  They have actual cites, and things they are known for besides being giant pieces of flesh-colored shit.  I would also like to see engineer as a character class for goblins, sort of an uber-expansion on the engineering prof, available only to goblins.  Thier mount could be those wish-i-was-starwars-episode-one hover-thingies from the shimmering flats, and they should be faster then normal mounts (both normal and epic versions).

The only thing ogres get props for is dancing.  But this is wow, not a strip joint (unless you play on ER).

I know this is on topic and all, but damn that is the geekiest post I've seen in a long while.  Congrats.

Before you argue with me, just read it as if you were somebody "not in the know."  Hell I'm in the know and I'm thinking that.

I speak geek too, but this just struck me as funny.

Horde Teenage Mallrats?

I'm still searching for your response to the rumor of Horde Blood Elves.  I actually thought of you when I heard that.  Something along the lines of several lines of unintelligble curses directed at everyone and everything....especailly Blizzard.

Now you too can raid with asshat manginas!

A cow-man in a teepee isn't evil/goth/angsty OR mangina-riffic though.

Udderly ridiculous? Silliest thing to go pasteurize all day?

Since your 2D god was crucified you have been a bitter man.

Mangina will not fix the horde / alliance imbalance.  The fact the Barrens is about as dull a zone as you can make for x many levels has a lot to do with it.  Just like I can not stand the starting zone of the dwarves... Hello snow blindness....

I think I've unleashed at least one curse filled diatribe here regarding blood elves. It's been mentioned here since beta I'm sure and if not, I bet our resident queen elf lover, Llava, has brought it up. I'm just beyond the point of offereing an angry, curse filled response.

The prospect just fills me with absolute horror.  It's like outsourcing jobs overseas, you know it makes sense and is in the best interest of the company, but that doesn't stop you from recoiling in terror everytime it's mentioned.

I'd likely quit the second it's officially announced, just in protest to another game going the way of "more elves. step #2. profit!"  But the way I feel about the game currently, I probably won't be around when it happens.  My love for this game runs pretty hot and cold and Schild could probably tell you (I'm sure he's fed up with my "god I'm going to quit PMs").  It's not that I don't still like the game, it's just that I've felt like I've experienced all there is for the game to really offer.  And part of my current apathy is due to the large imbalance.  Alterac Valley, during a large portion of the time I want to play, has a dwindling horde population.  Really, once you get less than 30 on a side, it just turns into a bloodbath and it makes it not fun.  This usually occurs during the last hour or so of time I want to play.  I'm not sure it's going to be a sustainable avenue for fun.  I guess I've just hit burnout hard. 

Yah, fuck elves. 

Geekiest?  So where on your ruler does measuring degrees of geek on a messageboard devoted not just to games, but MMOG's, fall?

Thx for putting yourself there.

Actually I think it would be better if the Horde had a really goth looking race, but they don't. Undead don't really look Goth.

There are a lot of problems right now:

1: Alliance are the "good guys"
2: Alliance has the reputation of being more developed - better quests, better zones, etc.
3: Alliance has humans that people can identify with.
4: Alliance has some attractive members. (Humands and night elves)
5: Alliance has cutesy characters (Gnomes)
6: Alliance is popular, which means if you want to play with your buddies you should probably choose alliance since they are alliance. (Chicken and egg problem)

New horde races would address some of this, but not 2 or 6.

Here's my plan for fixing the Horde:

Step One:  When asking players to choose the visual avatar by which they will be identified for months or even years to come, give them at least one character option that doesn't look as if it's mere presence could stink out a meat-packing plant.  Something which neither draws inspiration from some manner of barnyard animal, nor suffers from the active rotting of it's flesh.

Step Two:  Add a unique class to the Horde side, one more aesthetically pleasing than Shaman.  In a game where both sides feature warriors and mages the genre is built upon, is it any surprise that the Horde-only bonus of being able to play a tribal voodoo witchdoctor isn't carrying the day?

Step Three:  Slight but definite XP bonus to the underpopulated side.

EDIT:


Since it was confirmed that UO will have a quest where you cut off elf ears and turn them in for lewts, I've been mulling over sticking around for a while.   :-D

My idea is that there isn't any "quick fix" for this. Joe Average will play the side his friends play and undead rogues are just as common a sight as NE Hunters anyway. I just said that improving racials wouldn't help things, since they are ALREADY better than the alliance racials [with the exceptions of NE, trolls and maybe orcs] and you wouldn't get more horde players with them, just more biatching. Well, except if you improved trolls, I don't think anyone'd complain about them. They really got the shaft.
Let's say we implemented a "Thrall's Resolve" horde-only passive racial ability, 50% fear resistance or something. The omghardcore pvpers are already undead (undead make up more than 40% of the horde pop on my server, go figure), all this'll accomplish is a wave of nerf posts on the blizzard forums. And we all love those.

The only thing that'd work is give a minor passive bonus to the 'underdog' side on each server [as WUA suggested], like +10% xp. Or something.


[fwiw I play both Horde and Alliance, both on pvp servers]


-- Z.

so.. the population imbalance sucks, but the idea of giving the horde elves of their own as a way to get players to redress that balance makes you sad.

Good luck going down that creek, I guess..

On a quest last night, I met a couple of Blood Elves.  So, they're in the game already....

Blood Elves are in the game, yes. But putting them in as a horde race would be silly. The ones I can think of are:
- several neutral questgivers [Blasted Lands, Ratchet, Booty Bay, Gadgetzan]
- several alliance questgivers / run-to people [Theramore, EPL, Nethergarde Keep]
- quite a few hostiles [Blasted Lands, Azshara]
- alliance city guards [Theramore]

I assume the ones in the game are the ones that didn't leave with whatshisface in WC3:TFT and thus are either independent, or still loyal to the alliance.

Murlocs should be the new horde race, imo. :p


-- Z.

Yup, that'll zip the horde up in numbers as everyone rushes to play....frogs.

Female Frogs.  With lovely spawn.

You could start up as a tadpole at level 1 and then eventually you'd be able to have your own pad.

As someone already said - identify the problem.  Put Blood Elves in the horde with MAAAAAAAAAAASIVE boobies.  Sorted.

Seriously.

FWIW, The Alliance ones aren't Blood Elves they're the last of the High Elves. I can't recall off the top of my head who mentioned it, but I learned that from one of the Alliance NPCs.  Apparently, BEs are only magic users.  Oh, and they have red eyes instead of blue.

IMO, there's not much point to worrying about the opinion of a self-admittedly burnt out player. By definition, he's not going to be able to work up any enthusiasm for anything in the game. He's burnt out.  If I were a Blizzard rep I'd concern myself more with finding out what caused the burnout than worrying about their opinion of a new addition to the game. I mean it wasn't the existence of blood elves as a horde race that caused the problem right?

Bring on the hot, sexy elves. It's the obvious solution to the problem. For that matter they could add in a couple of non-repulsive undead models while they're at it.

Yes just what we need.  Another unbalanced Horde magic user.

NERF SHAMANS!!1!

Adding new races takes 6 months of balancing with a company that actually works quickly.  With Blizzard, at least a year.

Giving an xp bonus, a gold bonus, an armor bonus, or a damage bonus to the under-represented side would take like a week.

playable satyrs and succubi... course, they'd have to fix the succubi ass.

yes, i know, they are burning legion material. as someone else pointed out, write up some nonsense about the undead queen extorting demons for support, or the legion lending support to horde to counter act the real undead, and there you have it - teh hawt in a leather corset with a whip. have her dance on a poll and make moaning/whining sounds.  a large part of the player base would simply be unable to unsub.

hmph. i'm more evil then i thought. sorry for the no capitals, pretty damn tired tonight, editing punctuation is proving beyond me.

What's to balance about ebil elves? Just photocopy the Night elves across to the horde with slightly different models featuring biger titties and you're done. Adding a new class I can see taking a bit more time.

Cancelling your subscription takes two hands?

Ok at this point why not just put in Drow Lesbian Sex?

PS:  do DLS references auto-move a thread to the den?

Horde salvation through mangina.

It was in the boobies all along.

What have we come to, humanity?

I'm sorry Sam, but your post wasn't in proper 5-7-5 form.

You get one demerit for improper use of the Haiku.

It was a joke dude.  Chill.  And yes, I already admitted to being a geek.  I was laughing at myself. 

I for one don't want the "problem" fixed. If Ogrimmar saw half the stupidity that goes around Ironforge I'd have to cancel.

I'm in a conundrum.  I completely understand your concerns - I dont want the night elf manigna crowd in the Horde either.  But I've been waiting 3 days to get an Alterac Valley instance going (ctf is all very quick and boring and 'pointless' (as much as playing any computer game can be called pintless) whereas to me Alterac is more a serious, involved, and ultimately fun battle), and there arent enough Horde on our server (Proudmoore, which is pretty busy) to get one instance going.  And when it does get going in the past - we tend to be outnumbered 40:30 or 40:20 - so Hordies get demoralised coz its TM all over again, and they quit.  So I want to stop the imbalance, so everyone can have more fun.

Getting more manginas seems a dirty, dirty way to do it.  But I dont know of any other way to do so.  Its a conundrum.

I wank off to elves
Horde has no hot fem for me
Too bad I'm not furre

Or you can improve your current character models. 

Every Horde male has bad posture.  For those not interested in the mangina, playing a "weak" toon doesn't fly either.

Good point - that does bug me.

Then again, I am Horde.

I couldn't even get a decent CTF battle last night during primetime. Every one that started the horde side was outnumbers 6 or 7 to 10 and people just hearthed out rather than be an honor point farm for the alliance side.