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Title: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Nerf on November 20, 2009, 03:06:39 AM Oh god, someone erase the last several hours.
I can't even begin to describe how awful this movie, and the first twilight movie both are. None of it makes any fucking sense, and the lead vampire's one look that I'm told is supposed to be 'serious' just looks like he has to shit with great urgency. Don't waste your time on this unless you're getting something out of it. I traded to go see a midget stripper, I hope its worth it. Why is this shit so popular? I get it, young girls love the fucking books, but jesus christ the first movie was shitty shit shit, and the second was even worse. Judging from how packed the theater was, and the fact that it was playing on all 20 screens, I imagine it's not going away, but it fucking needs to. Fuck. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: K9 on November 20, 2009, 03:12:39 AM Seriously, what the fuck were you expecting?
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 20, 2009, 03:16:35 AM Okay, let's start simple: Twilight is a romance novel. Vampires and werewolves and shit are the distraction. It is, in fact, the type of romance novel that is pretty much porn for a certain very common type of woman.
Lots of women carry around certain worries --- Twilight creates a world where there's no uncertainity who loves who, there's absolute faithfullness, and love and sex aren't confused. It's no different than bodice rippers. Where it gets fun is that it was written by a Mormon teenager, and frankly you can tell that she really wanted to be Goth, but didn't dare, so her repressed desires come out all over the page. I've been informed that the last book or so is basically a synposis of "I thought I wanted to be a mommy, but babies are poop and hard work and hurt like hell coming out. Fuck that noise". (Mormon girls are raised to believe that having children is pretty much the end-all and be-all of existance, and that it is a deep joy unriveled by anything else. I suspect reality was quite a slap to the face). I've only read one of the books -- out if idle curiousity that has damned my soul, nand have not seen the movies, but my wife is a junior high English teacher and holds a Master's (not in English, a specific field devoted to teaching writing) and she had to spend more damn time reading and analyzing those books, because crap or not -- it's what kids are reading, and you get kids to read, write, and develop those parts of their brain if you work with what they're willing to do naturally when possible. She did say the movie was like a fork to the eye. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Triforcer on November 20, 2009, 03:19:11 AM In what fucking movie theater would that play on all 20 screens? I can only think of one, but I didn't know you could post to these forums from hell.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Nerf on November 20, 2009, 03:26:16 AM Midnight showing, and 12:01, and 12:02, and 12:03, and so on and so forth. The girlfriend bought tickets at around 8pm and everything except the 12:50 and 12:55 show were sold out, and the morning news is reporting now that apparently the next several weekends are already sold out at many theaters in town. It was a giant clusterfuck, which really goes along with the movie pretty well - there was no ticket checking past the actual entrance to the theater, so I imagine a lot of people with tickets to the 12:01, 12:02, etc shows ended up wandering into other theaters that started a bit later trying to find seats, which meant the theater for the 12:50 show was completely full by 12:15.
I'm going to take great pleasure in the violent collapse of the leads career though, he's apparently starring in a few other movies by the same studio, and from the previews it's pretty apparent the guy can't act at all - it was just blind luck that he was cast for 'angsty quiet vampire with IBS". Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Merusk on November 20, 2009, 03:32:28 AM I knew they were basically teen porn, Morat, but I didn't know the Mormon thing. Interesting.
The woman can't write for shit and I'm amazed your wife made it through the book given her credentials. I read a page and a half of my wife's copy and it was atrocious. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Velorath on November 20, 2009, 03:38:23 AM In what fucking movie theater would that play on all 20 screens? I can only think of one, but I didn't know you could post to these forums from hell. I'm guessing the theater has all digital projectors, which makes it pretty easy to do for midnight shows. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 20, 2009, 03:47:32 AM I knew they were basically teen porn, Morat, but I didn't know the Mormon thing. Interesting. Doesn't have much of a choice -- she does say it helps to get into the angsty, teenage, wanna-be Goth but Dad would throw a fit -- mindset. :)The woman can't write for shit and I'm amazed your wife made it through the book given her credentials. I read a page and a half of my wife's copy and it was atrocious. Still, it's what a ton of the kids she teaches reads. If she wants them to read and write eagerly, she has to start with what they like, regardless of what she feels about the literary merits of it. Show contempt for their tastes, and they'll tune you out. You leverage that stuff. So she asks them to write about why they liked it, what parts were their favorites, etc -- and use that to leverage them towards other books. "If you liked that, you'd like The Lightning Thief" or "If you liked that, I think you'd enjoy Wee Free Men", etc. Heck, she's proud of one kid she got to write (when she was teaching elementary) because she let him write about Pokemon. He fought every other teacher, but he actually wrote about Pokemon. At length. Give them something they enjoy, and they'll be more willing to do something they're less fond of. Kids do understand those tradeoffs. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Big Gulp on November 20, 2009, 03:59:17 AM Okay, let's start simple: Twilight is a romance novel. Vampires and werewolves and shit are the distraction. It is, in fact, the type of romance novel that is pretty much porn for a certain very common type of woman. Bingo. It's the Tiger Beat of vampire movies. It's sexually non-threatening which should appeal to tween girls who naturally feel scared about that. What I can't fathom is how supposedly grown women who should have come to grips with that part of life still think this is the bee's knees. It's just really, really sad. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 20, 2009, 04:10:54 AM Bingo. It's the Tiger Beat of vampire movies. It's sexually non-threatening which should appeal to tween girls who naturally feel scared about that. What I can't fathom is how supposedly grown women who should have come to grips with that part of life still think this is the bee's knees. It's just really, really sad. Bad boys, but safe. Absolute, true, unquestioning and unfailing love and fidelity. There's apparently this whole thing about how when they fall in love, it's 100% and there are no doubts, worries, or straying, and the guy is 100% focused on you.Not what he can get from you, not if he can get you in bed -- you're the entirety of his universe, the only damn important thing he has. You can understand why women might fantasize about a guy whose love is certain and knowable, whose fidelity is assured, and who treats them as if they're more important than anything else in the world. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Big Gulp on November 20, 2009, 04:17:38 AM You can understand why women might fantasize about a guy whose love is certain and knowable, whose fidelity is assured, and who treats them as if they're more important than anything else in the world. I can understand why teenage girls fantasize about that, because they're teenage girls. If you're an adult shouldn't you have a little bit more emotional depth than that? If those qualities are your fantasy just get a dog. They meet all the above criteria. And for the record, I'm not against romance movies. Remains of the Day is one of my favorite movies, but it's also about deeply flawed human beings with realistic motivations. If you're an adult you really should be embarrassed to be a fan of this kind of crap, and I think we have a civic duty to embarrass them for the betterment of society. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: apocrypha on November 20, 2009, 05:11:29 AM I can understand why teenage girls fantasize about that, because they're teenage girls. If you're an adult shouldn't you have a little bit more emotional depth than that? If those qualities are your fantasy just get a dog. They meet all the above criteria. I know loads of women (and men) ranging in age from 20 to 40 who seem, to me, to be totally emotionally stunted and locked into this false ideal of perfect, eternal love that has been thrown at them constantly since childhood by the media. The several people I know who are obsessed with this Twilight crap all fall into that category and are all clearly deeply disappointed with the reality of their lives, and yeah it's incredibly sad. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: KallDrexx on November 20, 2009, 05:21:36 AM But they have a budget for this movie! :awesome_for_real:
(What I was told when my friend asked me if I wanted to go to the midnight showing. Budget can't make shitty actors better) Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 20, 2009, 06:25:44 AM I can understand why teenage girls fantasize about that, because they're teenage girls. If you're an adult shouldn't you have a little bit more emotional depth than that? If those qualities are your fantasy just get a dog. They meet all the above criteria. It's fucking porn for women.You'd think 30 to 40 year old men wouldn't constantly wank off on scrawny, bleached, plastic chicks unenthusiasitically faking an orgasm. Or airbrushed across a page. Yet it's the biggest market in the US. What you're basically saying there is "I understand why horny teenagers wank to porn. Adults should be a bit more mature about it". Just because these women aren't diddling themselves to it (well, probably not while reading it) doesn't mean it's not fufilling the same basic, escapist fantasy that Bob Average gets flipping through his collection of Asian porn or whatnot. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: NowhereMan on November 20, 2009, 06:27:44 AM Well now you've got something to point to when women complain that men's porn is horrible and adds nothing of value to the world.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Big Gulp on November 20, 2009, 06:38:31 AM You'd think 30 to 40 year old men wouldn't constantly wank off on scrawny, bleached, plastic chicks unenthusiasitically faking an orgasm. Or airbrushed across a page. I'm 35 and I can assure you that my favorite section of RedTube is the amateur section. I want my sex dirty, poorly filmed, and somewhat authentic, even though most of that shit is still staged. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: K9 on November 20, 2009, 06:51:51 AM TMI
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Signe on November 20, 2009, 07:19:30 AM I don't have even the tiniest urge to see this crap. I bet none of the women here do. I don't even know why anyone would bother to bring it up... what? For all the women who don't come to f13? And to actually go see it? I'm sorry. There, there.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Bungee on November 20, 2009, 07:42:59 AM TMI I especially liked it paired with his avatar. Although there would be better fitting ones around here. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Rasix on November 20, 2009, 08:23:22 AM None of it makes any fucking sense, and the lead vampire's one look that I'm told is supposed to be 'serious' just looks like he has to shit with great urgency. Is that the face he makes in the TV previews? Where the werewolf is coming at him? Looks like he just chugged a gallon of spoiled milk. No fangs. Twinkle in the sun. Not overtly sexual. Sounds great. :oh_i_see: My sisiter-in-law was banned by her friends from seeing this movie with them. Apparently they didn't appreciate her laughing throughout the previous one. I'm pretty sure that'd be my same reaction. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Cyrrex on November 20, 2009, 08:53:25 AM I don't have even the tiniest urge to see this crap. I bet none of the women here do. I don't even know why anyone would bother to bring it up... what? For all the women who don't come to f13? And to actually go see it? I'm sorry. There, there. Because some people's wives (not mine, thank the maker) actually insist that their man go see this movie with them. Pretty ridiculous. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Big Gulp on November 20, 2009, 09:07:30 AM Because some people's wives (not mine, thank the maker) actually insist that their man go see this movie with them. Pretty ridiculous. That's when you say, "Fuck no, by all means go out with your girlfriends, but I'm not going to endure that shit". Of course, this is probably why I'm no longer married. There are worse fates, like not having the balls to tell your wife to take a flying leap. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: WayAbvPar on November 20, 2009, 09:48:52 AM So glad that my wife isn't in to this silly shit. Even if she was she would leave me the hell out of it and go see it with her friends.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: IainC on November 20, 2009, 09:57:16 AM Sadly my wife is in to all of this shit, she also has a couple of shelves of Laurell K Hamilton stuff to boot. She knows better than to try and take me to a Twilight movie though.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Rendakor on November 20, 2009, 10:39:05 AM So glad that my Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sir T on November 20, 2009, 11:18:48 AM Friend of mine had free tickets to the midnight showing, so we went as kind of a good bye thing as I fly out tomorrow. The line stretched across 2 sides of the fucking block, and as we were walking along I jokingly said "You know, we could just go back to your place and rent a movie" and she said "Ok"
So we went and saw Mystery Men. I think we made the right choice. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: NowhereMan on November 20, 2009, 11:20:31 AM You can never got wrong with the Shoveller.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ingmar on November 20, 2009, 11:26:10 AM I can understand why teenage girls fantasize about that, because they're teenage girls. If you're an adult shouldn't you have a little bit more emotional depth than that? If those qualities are your fantasy just get a dog. They meet all the above criteria. It's fucking porn for women.Eh it strikes me more like fucking abstinence propaganda for women. Like a romance novel without the flowery euphemisms for orgasms. But, my info is all second-hand. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Nevermore on November 20, 2009, 11:34:17 AM Which is the opposite of the aforementioned Laurell Hamilton. Her stuff really is straight up porn.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 20, 2009, 11:42:09 AM Which is the opposite of the aforementioned Laurell Hamilton. Her stuff really is straight up porn. I used to love the first three books or so in the anita blake series. It really starts out as a modern day detective/mystery novel series but then somewhere along the line the relationship stuff took over and there are literally vampires splooging on her ass. It's such a shame too because I was really digging the vibe and world she'd created until that point. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: HaemishM on November 20, 2009, 11:45:56 AM It's EMOTIONAL pr0n for women, since the ones who would probably like this shit wouldn't want to admit they are sexual creatures as well.
Robert Pattinson (the male - if you can call it that - lead) is stricken with one of the worst cases of doucheface I've ever seen. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: RhyssaFireheart on November 20, 2009, 11:51:46 AM Oh, this movie cme out? That would explain why the theatre parking lot was emptying out at 2am this morning when I was out looking for a 24hr drive through. (I was awake and hadn't had dinner! Don't judge me!)
I still don't get why some parent would take their grade school aged child to this movie on a school night though. Saw a kid in the vehicle behind me while in line. As for the Twilight series, I've not touched it, thankfully. Especially not after hearing about how the characters act (stalker!Edward for starters). It's scarier to think that teenage girls may be getting their ideas about relationships from this tripe and think that some things are signs of TWU WUV! instead of the creepy shit that it is. Of course, kids these days think rape is a sign of love as well, so I guess the next generation is well and truly screwed. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: NowhereMan on November 20, 2009, 12:01:08 PM Hey Sleeping Beauty sort of consented by never saying no! Or less stupidly put, this kind of ridiculous happily ever after, true love view of romance has been around a lot longer than twilight. Worst case it's reinforcing the stereotype in a new generation of teenagers after we've had one, maybe two generations that had rejected the whole courtly love ideal. It's one of those societal memes that's been floating around for quite a while in the West. I'm never going to read it and I doubt it has any kind of literary merit but worrying this sort of stuff is going to emotionally retard generations of teenage girls is about as sensible as being concerned that Harry Potter is going to cause your 7 year old to develop a strong interest in sorcery and witchcraft and turn into a Wiccan.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Abagadro on November 20, 2009, 12:48:38 PM One correction: Stephanie Meyers wrote these in her 30's. I guess she just writes like a teenager.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Nerf on November 20, 2009, 01:01:15 PM I can't even begin to fathom the stunted emotional state that a woman in her 30s would have to be in to write this nonsense. It's just soo fucking stupid.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Pennilenko on November 20, 2009, 01:03:56 PM One correction: Stephanie Meyers wrote these in her 30's. I guess she just writes like a teenager. Assuming that it is true that the author is a Mormon. I was raised around a bunch of Mormon women, I can't speak about Mormon women as a whole, but the ones I grew up around were definitely stuck in the mindset of "naive" teenagers. Shit one of my sisters got sucked into it and turned into a baby factory and now has zero personality or any of what she used to be left. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Pennilenko on November 20, 2009, 01:04:31 PM I can't even begin to fathom the stunted emotional state that a woman in her 30s would have to be in to write this nonsense. It's just soo fucking stupid. I gonna tell every goon that you went to go see this movie. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Nerf on November 20, 2009, 01:08:06 PM I can't even begin to fathom the stunted emotional state that a woman in her 30s would have to be in to write this nonsense. It's just soo fucking stupid. I gonna tell every goon that you went to go see this movie. Make sure you emphasize the fact that I traded going to see the movie last night for going to see a midget stripper tonight. I'm pretty sure I still lost out in the end, but I'll eventually only be left with remembering why exactly girls who love Twilight are insane, but midget strippers are forever. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Pennilenko on November 20, 2009, 01:14:18 PM I can't even begin to fathom the stunted emotional state that a woman in her 30s would have to be in to write this nonsense. It's just soo fucking stupid. I gonna tell every goon that you went to go see this movie. Make sure you emphasize the fact that I traded going to see the movie last night for going to see a midget stripper tonight. I'm pretty sure I still lost out in the end, but I'll eventually only be left with remembering why exactly girls who love Twilight are insane, but midget strippers are forever. Ohh shit, I didn't read the midget stripper bit, you have redeemed yourself. :heart: My CEO Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Riggswolfe on November 20, 2009, 06:01:13 PM Vampires don't fucking sparkle in the sun. To quote the Vampire Diaries (yeah, I watch it, sue me, I'm married too.) "No, I don't sparkle, I live in the real world where a vampire bursts into flame in the sunlight..."
That said, my homophobic fundamentalist friend loves this series. To the point where he has gotten very upset with my wife and I since we don't even try to hide our scorn for this pile of shit. The man's in his mid-thirties and he thinks this stuff is the shit. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Merusk on November 20, 2009, 06:05:40 PM It lets him be a little girl filled with the love of the one man who understand him. The cold cruel world doesn't allow that, because then he'd burn in hell, like he should because his family and peers told him so.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Riggswolfe on November 20, 2009, 06:12:55 PM It lets him be a little girl filled with the love of the one man who understand him. The cold cruel world doesn't allow that, because then he'd burn in hell, like he should because his family and peers told him so. Yeah, my other friend and I have been telling him he's repressed and used this, among other things, as "proof". We mostly do it to tease him but we also talk on the phone sometimes and one of us will go "do you think? Nahhhh..." Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: schild on November 20, 2009, 06:14:07 PM I can honestly say if I were standing at a theater with a girlfriend and everything except Twilight was sold out and she was like "Might as well see Twilight" instead of saying "Fuckit, let's get Chinese" I'd break up with her on the spot, right there.
If she was excited that she got to see Twilight, I'd probably hit her. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Viin on November 20, 2009, 08:21:06 PM While it's good to scorn ridicious piles of crap, it's pretty harsh to say you'd dump a girl because she likes something you don't.
I'm pretty sure if my wife had that same attitude, I'd have a number of things she thinks is totally worthless .. Letsee, like: video games mmos in particular weak fantasy (wheel of time anyone?) all sci-fi books table top games posting on f13 :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Pennilenko on November 20, 2009, 09:08:33 PM While it's good to scorn ridicious piles of crap, it's pretty harsh to say you'd dump a girl because she likes something you don't. I'm pretty sure if my wife had that same attitude, I'd have a number of things she thinks is totally worthless .. Letsee, like: video games mmos in particular weak fantasy (wheel of time anyone?) all sci-fi books table top games posting on f13 :awesome_for_real: None of those things in your list are as horrible as twilight. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 20, 2009, 09:33:47 PM Sadly my wife is in to all of this shit, she also has a couple of shelves of Laurell K Hamilton stuff to boot. She knows better than to try and take me to a Twilight movie though. lol. My wife reads that. It's partly my fault. I started flipping through urban fantasy (Dresden Files) and then tried Rachel Morgan when I was desperate for "shit to read during an 8 hour night shift wherein nothing happens". She picked them up, liked the humor in Dresden, liked the female characterizations in the Morgan books, and then grabbed the Anita Blake mostly because I'd showed her the relevant Penny Arcade comic about the Blake books. She said they didn't start out too bad, but rapidly evolved to a place wherin she feels she MUST read the new books just to see how bad it gets. My wife's take on this thread was pretty identical to Haemish's. It's porn for women who won't look at real porn because what would their Sunday social group think!. If your wife, spouse, or other loved one is into it -- my advice is simple. Put up with it, mock it only gently, because lord knows you're certainly into something she finds just as damn lame. :) Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: WindupAtheist on November 20, 2009, 09:42:02 PM If some girl tried to make me see Twilight, I would brutally punch her in the face.
Not really, I just want to fit in. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 20, 2009, 10:13:52 PM I wouldn't get so extreme but I think a girls' opinion of twilight will be my new metric as I date to determine if I should continue or not and no, that's not a joke.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Soln on November 20, 2009, 10:46:53 PM Meyer was indeed 33 when she started her oeuvre. It's Buffy&Angel meets Kathy&Heathcliff meets Archie&Veronica ... The woman is obviously really repressed, and has idealized sex. Never read any of this stuff either. /shudder
I like that Stephen King said she can't write worth a damn. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Abagadro on November 20, 2009, 11:03:23 PM Considering the original Dracula was all about repressed Victorian sexual mores, I guess things have come full circle except for, you know, Dracula being GOOD and all.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Soln on November 20, 2009, 11:14:17 PM Bram Stoker has a relative who has just released some book apparently. And yeah, the original Dracula was not pretty...
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 20, 2009, 11:29:26 PM Considering the original Dracula was all about repressed Victorian sexual mores, I guess things have come full circle except for, you know, Dracula being GOOD and all. I don't think any aspect of Victorian society wasn't about sex. It's why the abstinence movement is pointless. And explains a lot about the obsessions of some groups. If you deny your sexuality, represss it and try to force yourself into some chaste, sexless being --- well, you'll start seeing sex EVERYWHERE. But yeah, the Twilight books are about sex. Becoming a vampire is about losing your innocence -- about losing your virginity. All it's missing is crying unicorns. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Nerf on November 21, 2009, 12:18:17 AM The midget stripper was totally worth the suffering of Twilight, I even inadvertently pissed off her boyfriend/manager before the show started. I was outside smoking (what the FUCK dallas, a non-smoking tittybar? Who the fuck ever heard of this fucking shit) and explaining to some guy also left in the cold because of retarded laws that this was midget stripper night, and was on full on "whooo! midget fucking stripper!" mode when some random guy walked up and angrily stated that they prefer the term "little people", and my reply of "No, I'm positive that they like the term midget instead" was met with "Actually, I'm her boyfriend slash manager, and they're little people".
What kind of sick fuck could date that? It was creepy as shit, like the body of a 3 year old with a normal persons head, I have to wonder if they met via some midget/pedophile dating service. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 21, 2009, 12:29:39 AM What kind of sick fuck could date that? It was creepy as shit, like the body of a 3 year old with a normal persons head, I have to wonder if they met via some midget/pedophile dating service. I would actually imagine that pedophiles would have no interest in midgets. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: WindupAtheist on November 21, 2009, 01:12:08 AM Best. Derail. Ever.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: NowhereMan on November 21, 2009, 05:44:55 AM What kind of sick fuck could date that? It was creepy as shit, like the body of a 3 year old with a normal persons head, I have to wonder if they met via some midget/pedophile dating service. I would actually imagine that pedophiles would have no interest in midgets. Sgt. Hatred and Quiz boy would disagree there :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 21, 2009, 06:21:23 AM Also, I would totally be called a dwarf. I mean honestly, who doesn't like dwarves?
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Abagadro on November 21, 2009, 08:46:05 AM But yeah, the Twilight books are about sex. Becoming a vampire is about losing your innocence -- about losing your virginity. All it's missing is crying unicorns. Just wait until the whole Bella pregnancy thing gets going in the movies and examined in the pop culture. It's twisted as all get out. I've never read this shit but living in Utah you get a bunch of it through osmosis. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Venkman on November 21, 2009, 09:14:38 AM Where it gets fun is that it was written by a Mormon teenager Source? I only ask because my wife doesn't believe you. And that debate with this thread is all I ever need to know about this IP :-) Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Samwise on November 21, 2009, 09:28:39 AM Where it gets fun is that it was written by a Mormon teenager Source? I only ask because my wife doesn't believe you. And that debate with this thread is all I ever need to know about this IP :-) Googled Twilight, clicked Wikipedia link, clicked link to author. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephenie_Meyer) Twilight was written in 2003, so she was about 30 when she wrote it. She is definitely a Mormon, though. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Rasix on November 21, 2009, 09:37:50 AM You shouldn't have said anything. Lazy Darniaq, read the thread.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Samwise on November 21, 2009, 09:39:39 AM You try saying no to those big puppy-dog eyes.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Riggswolfe on November 21, 2009, 12:09:01 PM lol. My wife reads that. It's partly my fault. I started flipping through urban fantasy (Dresden Files) and then tried Rachel Morgan when I was desperate for "shit to read during an 8 hour night shift wherein nothing happens". She picked them up, liked the humor in Dresden, liked the female characterizations in the Morgan books, and then grabbed the Anita Blake mostly because I'd showed her the relevant Penny Arcade comic about the Blake books. Total derail but my wife and I love the Rachel Morgan books. My wife has read Dresden but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I've got something like 10 books on my night table to work through first and 5 of those are Warhammer volumes which are basically thick books that collect an entire trilogy or more. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Evildrider on November 21, 2009, 12:27:38 PM Meyer was indeed 33 when she started her oeuvre. It's Buffy&Angel meets Kathy&Heathcliff meets Archie&Veronica ... The woman is obviously really repressed, and has idealized sex. Never read any of this stuff either. /shudder I like that Stephen King said she can't write worth a damn. Neither can Stephen King. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 21, 2009, 12:48:02 PM Meyer was indeed 33 when she started her oeuvre. It's Buffy&Angel meets Kathy&Heathcliff meets Archie&Veronica ... The woman is obviously really repressed, and has idealized sex. Never read any of this stuff either. /shudder I like that Stephen King said she can't write worth a damn. Neither can Stephen King. He has his moments but yes, if king is calling you a bad writer, you have problems. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: waffel on November 21, 2009, 01:31:13 PM This is teenage girl's Modern Warfare 2.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Venkman on November 21, 2009, 01:45:22 PM You shouldn't have said anything. Lazy Darniaq, read the thread. I was asking for his source so I could send it to the wife. Morat doesn't make shit like that up, so I figured I'd rely on his rather than bing* the wrong one. And with that, I go back to not caring about this IP. As waffel said, it's MW2 for teenage girls, being discussed by the MW2 audience. :awesome_for_real: * product placement ftw! They should pay me for this... Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Aez on November 21, 2009, 02:17:35 PM Went with GF, my soul survived. I'd even say New Moon > Last Harry Potter.
The worst part for me was all the retarded promises/oats (most were broken in the next few scenes anyway). I didn't feel any hate for the lead actor, I don't think he's worst than the others. Only way you could really shine with such a silly role is by sheer force of personality like Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor in SW. EDIT : edited for engrish Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 21, 2009, 03:08:09 PM Only way you could really shine with his silly role is by sheer personality like Liam Neeson Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Oban on November 21, 2009, 04:01:17 PM Went with GF, my soul survived. I'd even say New Moon > Last Harry Potter. The worst part for me was all the retarded promises/oats (most got broken in the next few scene anyway). I didn't feel any hate for the lead actor, I don't think he's worst than the others. Only way you could really shine with his silly role is by sheer personality like Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor did in SW. Your soul may have survived, but your mastery of the English language appears to have faltered. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Merusk on November 21, 2009, 04:06:23 PM He's learning English from Ms. Meyer.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Aez on November 21, 2009, 04:21:39 PM Yeah, I'm sometime able to post something decent but it takes allot of time and 5+ review. I guess I can't get with any easy posting. Will edit it.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 21, 2009, 09:36:47 PM Where it gets fun is that it was written by a Mormon teenager Source? I only ask because my wife doesn't believe you. And that debate with this thread is all I ever need to know about this IP :-) As for the pregnancy bit: Yeah, I heard aboiut that. Kinda fucked up sounding. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Aez on November 21, 2009, 09:54:36 PM Quote Stephenie Meyer graduated from Brigham Young University with a bachelor's degree in English. She lives with her husband and three young sons in Phoenix, Arizona. After the publication of her first novel, Twilight, booksellers chose Stephenie Meyer as one of the "most promising new authors of 2005" (Publishers Weekly). But she is actually Mormon. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: naum on November 21, 2009, 10:24:53 PM Quote Stephenie Meyer graduated from Brigham Young University with a bachelor's degree in English. She lives with her husband and three young sons in Phoenix, Arizona. After the publication of her first novel, Twilight, booksellers chose Stephenie Meyer as one of the "most promising new authors of 2005" (Publishers Weekly). But she is actually Mormon. Lots of Mormons in Arizona, Northern Arizona + Mesa may be comprised of majority Mormon populations… Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Trippy on November 22, 2009, 12:35:18 AM 'New Moon' takes record $72.7M box office bite (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091121/ap_en_mo/us_box_office_new_moon)
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sjofn on November 22, 2009, 01:14:21 AM The more I hear how wretched the Twilight thing is, the more I am tempted to read and/or see it because I love terrible shit like that in a "holy shit, this is terrible! Awesome!" way. But I'm pretty sure it would just fill me with rage instead, and then I would be disappointed.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Nerf on November 22, 2009, 01:24:38 AM I'll sum it for you and save you the time:
Awkward 100 year old teenage vampire with IBS: You smell pretty, I will love you forever. Awkward teenage girl: Ooo! Sparkly! I love you! That pretty much sums up the first 2 movies/books, from what I've been told the third book is basically: Awkward teenage girl: Make me a vampire so we can actually kiss and you don't have to stop yourself from eating me (in the bad way) Vampire with IBS: Marry me first, I will love you until the end of time. Awkward teenage girl: I will also love you forever, but no. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 22, 2009, 02:45:37 AM Then they get married. And she becomes a vampire. And somehow she gets pregnant, and it eats it's way out of her or something. (I'm a little iffy on those details). And then it grows up really fast so it doesn't have poopy diapers and goes into cute, potty-trained age real quick? Also iffy on those details. And then the "oh noes, werewolf love interest" that's the big part of THIS movie turns out to be in love with her baby, and was smelling her unconcieved child and thus acting all in love with her --- it's just understandable confusion, and apparently the werewolf will just hang around in a creepy, pedophile way.
Yeah, I'm not making that up. The werewolf-vampire-normal girl triangle is entirely a mistake on the werewolf's part, as his destined mate isn't her but the offspring of her and Sparkly Vampire Dude. And then when the kid is born, apparently Werewolf guy just....hangs around in a creepy, overbearing, always there, massive pedophile way....until she's old enough to bone. Fucked up. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Samwise on November 22, 2009, 09:21:35 AM (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40386/Macros/gigity2.gif)
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: WindupAtheist on November 22, 2009, 11:41:48 AM I'll just link this (http://cleoland.pbworks.com/Twilight#Bookdiscussionentries). She apparently posted her reactions to each chapter upon reading it for the first time, rather than reading it all and then writing it up.
Quote from: link OH FUCK DID JACOB JUST IMPRINT ON THE NEWBORN DEATH BABY? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? I JUST WHAT THE FUCK HOLY GODDAMN HELL. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sjofn on November 22, 2009, 02:18:12 PM Ha, awesome, now I don't even have to think about reading them. <3
The baby thing is um. :ye_gods: Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 22, 2009, 03:15:02 PM Ha, awesome, now I don't even have to think about reading them. <3 In between telling me how creepy it was, my wife informed me of the lengths the author went to to explain how it wasn't creepy. Because it's apparently Twue Wuve, which means that Werewolf boy will be exactly what she needs when she needs it, and won't even think about anything else. So he'll be a big brother or cool, not interested in fucking you at all Uncle, until she's an adult and mentally and emotionally ready for a relationship, in which case he'll suddenly transform from "Hey, I'm like your Uncle and totally not interested in you in other than a protective, family way" into full blow "TWUE WUVE AND SPARKLY HAND HOLDING UNTIL MARRIAGE".The baby thing is um. :ye_gods: Which at least indicates that the author was pretty aware that creepy "future mates" hanging around young children doesn't really work out. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sjofn on November 22, 2009, 03:48:31 PM And yet, somehow, that is EVEN CREEPIER. :ye_gods:
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Selby on November 22, 2009, 04:33:17 PM And yet, somehow, that is EVEN CREEPIER. :ye_gods: Yeah, the more I read about this from various sources the creepier and creepier it gets. It goes from "lame romance novel fluff that people read" to "are you serious?" into "you can't make this shit up" territory.Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: RhyssaFireheart on November 22, 2009, 04:50:23 PM OMFG! These chapter recaps from that link are freaking hilarious! I've got tears here from laughing.
Now I want to read the books just to see how fabulously bad they are. Train wrecks are fascinating to watch, after all. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: lamaros on November 22, 2009, 04:51:06 PM I am slowly being drawn in. I will have to read this shit if this keeps up.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: pxib on November 22, 2009, 05:16:32 PM I hesitate to take Twilight anymore seriously than I take Harry Potter. Fads that get this popular may tap into a deep and mysteirous need, but most often its our deep human need to be part of popular fads. At some point all of your friends are raving about Twilight and you go from "WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?!" to "Wait... what am I missing?" When everybody's talking about it, it's nice to have something to talk about. Much of the runaway success of World of Warcraft falls under the same banner. Cross that popularity tipping point (for whatever reason) and it becomes self-sustaining. Much as pundits, anthropologists, fans, haters, and the uninitiated may run themselves ragged looking for deeper meaning, it's probably just another popular fad.
Twilight is escapist fiction. You're not supposed to think about it. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Margalis on November 22, 2009, 10:59:02 PM You all sure seem to know a lot about Twilight.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: NowhereMan on November 23, 2009, 12:32:45 AM I can honestly say pretty much everything I know about Twilight I learned from this thread. Does reading this thread mean I can count myself as a part of the popular fad?
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 23, 2009, 05:23:13 AM I can honestly say pretty much everything I know about Twilight I learned from this thread. Does reading this thread mean I can count myself as a part of the popular fad? Yes. For every fad, there's a fad of people bitching about the lameness of the fad. And then there's another layer, who bitch about the people who always bitch about the lameness of the fad. Those people are assholes, though. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: lac on November 23, 2009, 05:25:31 AM Twilight Fans Get Punked - Funny or die (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/35358066cc/twilight-fans-get-punked).
Quote Twilight fans show up to what they think is the red carpet premiere of "Twilight New Moon" only to discover that they are not going to be seeing Twilight, but instead will be forced into a vampire intervention. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Pennilenko on November 23, 2009, 05:27:38 AM I can honestly say pretty much everything I know about Twilight I learned from this thread. Does reading this thread mean I can count myself as a part of the popular fad? Yes, we are all doomed. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: WindupAtheist on November 23, 2009, 05:47:53 AM Everything I know about Twilight, including that link, I learned from a friend of mine who has read the entire series despite loudly claiming to absolutely hate it. Supposedly she read it in that "gawking at a trainwreck" sort of way, but I wonder if she doesn't secretly love it and just feels guilty for doing so.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ironwood on November 23, 2009, 06:04:42 AM That's fairly common.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: NowhereMan on November 23, 2009, 06:52:13 AM Twilight Fans Get Punked - Funny or die (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/35358066cc/twilight-fans-get-punked). Quote Twilight fans show up to what they think is the red carpet premiere of "Twilight New Moon" only to discover that they are not going to be seeing Twilight, but instead will be forced into a vampire intervention. I have to say quite a few of those people took that pretty well. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: naum on November 23, 2009, 07:30:43 AM (http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Rob/excuses.png)
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: WindupAtheist on November 23, 2009, 07:45:47 AM No such thread is complete without the AMAZING BOOOOK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-turfrcQY-w&feature=channel) video. Or the Billy Jean remix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_iVRcLAYc0) thereof.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: K9 on November 23, 2009, 08:20:48 AM No such thread is complete without the AMAZING BOOOOK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-turfrcQY-w&feature=channel) video. Or the Billy Jean remix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_iVRcLAYc0) thereof. For the first time ever, the youtube comments come through. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: NowhereMan on November 23, 2009, 08:32:54 AM I randomly watched one of her other videos and she looked like a fat, white Klingon.
Also some guy wanders in and starts saying how New Moon is worse than the Holocaust and she nearly cries. Hilarious. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: IainC on November 23, 2009, 08:49:50 AM No such thread is complete without the AMAZING BOOOOK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-turfrcQY-w&feature=channel) video. Or the Billy Jean remix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_iVRcLAYc0) thereof. What. The. Fuck. I'm going to expound some poorly thought through opinions in a Youtube video; that'll silence all the haters! Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Cadaverine on November 23, 2009, 10:21:04 AM ANGRY POTATO DEMANDS VAMPIRES
:awesome_for_real: Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 23, 2009, 10:26:33 AM ANGRY POTATO DEMANDS VAMPIRES :awesome_for_real: That one made me giggle as well. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Threash on November 23, 2009, 02:25:18 PM So which one wins, necrophilia or bestiality?
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Johny Cee on November 23, 2009, 03:00:29 PM Ha, awesome, now I don't even have to think about reading them. <3 In between telling me how creepy it was, my wife informed me of the lengths the author went to to explain how it wasn't creepy. Because it's apparently Twue Wuve, which means that Werewolf boy will be exactly what she needs when she needs it, and won't even think about anything else. So he'll be a big brother or cool, not interested in fucking you at all Uncle, until she's an adult and mentally and emotionally ready for a relationship, in which case he'll suddenly transform from "Hey, I'm like your Uncle and totally not interested in you in other than a protective, family way" into full blow "TWUE WUVE AND SPARKLY HAND HOLDING UNTIL MARRIAGE".The baby thing is um. :ye_gods: Which at least indicates that the author was pretty aware that creepy "future mates" hanging around young children doesn't really work out. Actually, this kind of future mate thing is not that uncommon in genre works, mostly when there's a time-travel angle or an immortality angle. Dan Simmons, Anne Bishop, Orson Scott Card, and Anne Bishop all used it off the top of my head. It's a major plot point in Glen Cook's "Dread Empire" books, and Erikson comes at it from the reincarnation angle. I haven't seen either, but isn't that really the point of both The Time Traveler's Wife and the Benjamen Button movie? The real life angle is the huge number of teachers that go on to have relationships with former students. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sjofn on November 23, 2009, 03:12:26 PM The real life angle is the huge number of teachers that go on to have relationships with former students. Yeah well, I find that creepy too. And at least those teachers are not there FROM BIRTH hanging around waiting for you to get old enough to fuck. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: NowhereMan on November 23, 2009, 04:10:36 PM Time travel stories it's a little weird but really the time-traveller has fallen in love with their future (adult) self. It's not hard to say they're not really in love with the 7 year old they bump into back in time but they do recognise that this is the person they're going to fall in love with, I guess in the way if you find a very early draft of a novel you love you really enjoy seeing the rough outlines of all the ideas that made you love it. It's not the book you love but you can see where it's going to become that and that makes you love it too though not in the same way.
I'd say on the prophesied love type situations it's also usually a case of people not really knowing each other even if they believe they're destined to fall in love, they just think it's going to happen. The werewolf imprinting thing (what I've read of it) is kind of creepy because you're trying to argue they've got the exact same love for the person they're just expressing it in different ways. If you've got the sort of idea of love (that I thought was pretty common in western culture) the Greeks had with all different sorts then that just doesn't make much sense. You can't be a father/older brother figure to someone then change into a friend when they hit their teens and then become a love when they're 18 and it be the exact same love you always felt and it not be fucking weird and really fucking creepy. The reincarnation falling in love thing is kind of creepy too though I don't know if many authors go for the angle of, "Oh my love is dead. Fortunately I know she has been reincarnated and is presently in the body of a 3 year old in the next village. I shall go and announce my love and hang around her until she's of age." When you throw in either memories on both sides of previous lives or just both totally unaware of fate then those stories don't seem nearly as weird and creepy. Then again reading the site WUA linked to (which has given me far too great a knowledge of Twilight but it's nicely condensed 'too awful to stop' reading) Twilight's author generally seems to have a really creepy view of how love should be or at least manages to do some of the accepted romantic tropes to such a ridiculous degree that they are clearly creepy. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Der Helm on November 23, 2009, 04:39:46 PM I kind of watched Twilight today, thank God that VLC has the ability to speed up the movie so much, that you can't really understand the dialogue anymore.
Sparkling vampires ? What the ... :awesome_for_real:/ :why_so_serious: / :raspberry: Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Johny Cee on November 23, 2009, 04:49:03 PM Time travel stories it's a little weird but really the time-traveller has fallen in love with their future (adult) self. It's not hard to say they're not really in love with the 7 year old they bump into back in time but they do recognise that this is the person they're going to fall in love with, I guess in the way if you find a very early draft of a novel you love you really enjoy seeing the rough outlines of all the ideas that made you love it. It's not the book you love but you can see where it's going to become that and that makes you love it too though not in the same way. I'd say on the prophesied love type situations it's also usually a case of people not really knowing each other even if they believe they're destined to fall in love, they just think it's going to happen. The werewolf imprinting thing (what I've read of it) is kind of creepy because you're trying to argue they've got the exact same love for the person they're just expressing it in different ways. If you've got the sort of idea of love (that I thought was pretty common in western culture) the Greeks had with all different sorts then that just doesn't make much sense. You can't be a father/older brother figure to someone then change into a friend when they hit their teens and then become a love when they're 18 and it be the exact same love you always felt and it not be fucking weird and really fucking creepy. The reincarnation falling in love thing is kind of creepy too though I don't know if many authors go for the angle of, "Oh my love is dead. Fortunately I know she has been reincarnated and is presently in the body of a 3 year old in the next village. I shall go and announce my love and hang around her until she's of age." When you throw in either memories on both sides of previous lives or just both totally unaware of fate then those stories don't seem nearly as weird and creepy. Then again reading the site WUA linked to (which has given me far too great a knowledge of Twilight but it's nicely condensed 'too awful to stop' reading) Twilight's author generally seems to have a really creepy view of how love should be or at least manages to do some of the accepted romantic tropes to such a ridiculous degree that they are clearly creepy. I'm not arguing it's a healthy expression of intimacy. It is a common female sexual hangup, though, and Meyer seems to be brilliant at tickling all those creepy and deep-seated adolscent female sexual fantasies. The "violent/hyper-agressive/jealous man who really loves you" bit is just a tweaked up version of the cheerleader and the sports meat-head.... and the basis for more than a few Lifetime movies. It's as crass as the portrayal of women in male wish-fulfillment action movies. At their best, most times it's a helpless damsel in distress who rewards the hero for his prowess in combat by sleeping with him.... at worst, you have the man overcoming the woman in combat and then she realizes she loves him... or James "Date Rape" Bond. That all plays to male adolscent hangups relating to sexual dominance. Obviously, Meyers can't be too far out of the norm as she is wildly popular with teens and older women from a variety of backgrounds. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: NowhereMan on November 23, 2009, 05:50:23 PM Honestly the way that site presents it (and I'm aware she's probably cherry-picking slightly in terms of her own perspective) but nearly every love story in this book takes classic symbols of romance and just goes so far it's really creepy. I think it's probably less intentional for the most part and more, "Normal love can be signified by thinking about your beloved and maybe writing poems and always wanting to be with them. If this is epic love then he should actually always be with her," which she just didn't quite realise was stalking. Since he loved her so much it doesn't count. Seriously this book really is fucked up relationship wise, which I don't think I appreciated until actually finding out what happens in detail.
That said I'm not going to fear that it's about to turn a generation of girls into abused women who constantly go after men that treat them like crap/never manage to have a real relationship because it won't meet expectations. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sheepherder on November 23, 2009, 06:09:57 PM Robert Jordan is a borderline creeper too sometimes.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Numtini on November 23, 2009, 06:23:29 PM The best stuff I saw on the entire thing was a series of Livejournal posts (http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html) that go into all the Mormon stuff. Yes, it's just Mormon abstinence porn.
And my favorite feminist answer back, that shows off exactly how creepy the whole male/female attitudes of the series are: And then Buffy staked Edward. The End (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyCot4ORdOA). Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: lamaros on November 23, 2009, 06:33:59 PM The best stuff I saw on the entire thing was a series of Livejournal posts (http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html) that go into all the Mormon stuff. Yes, it's just Mormon abstinence porn. And my favorite feminist answer back, that shows off exactly how creepy the whole male/female attitudes of the series are: And then Buffy staked Edward. The End (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyCot4ORdOA). Excellent video! Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Johny Cee on November 23, 2009, 06:46:05 PM Robert Jordan is a borderline creeper too sometimes. Jordan started out with an interesting theme of separate spheres of male-female power and dominance. The later books really just devolved into male wishfulfillment and diminishing the circle of female power. I wouldn't put him in the same ballpark as James Bond's "seduction" of Pussy Galore in Goldfinger, or even the Sleeping Beauty fable if you really look at it... The only way the princess can be freed from the magical curse is inappropriate sexual contact? And I'm assuming that it gets told as a kiss, but you know what was really meant. Even that stuff is pretty tame compared to alot of things that are borderline best-sellers, or topics that were standard for the scifi/fantasy greats to write about decades ago. I propose that Morat, WUA and Haemish do a joint review/round table discussion of Anne Bishop's "Dark Jewels" trilogy, or Jacquiline Carey's "Kushiel" books. One has magical cock-rings to keep males in line, and the other has a powerful female protagonist who's superpower is submissive S&M sex. That thread would be EPIC. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Johny Cee on November 23, 2009, 06:57:49 PM The best stuff I saw on the entire thing was a series of Livejournal posts (http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html) that go into all the Mormon stuff. Yes, it's just Mormon abstinence porn. And my favorite feminist answer back, that shows off exactly how creepy the whole male/female attitudes of the series are: And then Buffy staked Edward. The End (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyCot4ORdOA). Umm. Buffy has the exact same relationship with Angel: He's a monster who tries hard to be good, because he loves Buffy so much. If he's ever bad, and good girl Buffy has sex with him (because good girls don't have sex), he turns into the monster that will try to kill and eat her. And this is a series that has explicitly identified vampires feeding with rape. (Premarital sex leads to rape.) Not too mention that Buffy doesn't admit she has feelings for Spike until after he beats her up? I can't remember now, but doesn't Spike do the old hold her down and kiss her routine? Way to go Joss! Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Riggswolfe on November 23, 2009, 07:49:10 PM I propose that Morat, WUA and Haemish do a joint review/round table discussion of Anne Bishop's "Dark Jewels" trilogy, or Jacquiline Carey's "Kushiel" books. One has magical cock-rings to keep males in line, and the other has a powerful female protagonist who's superpower is submissive S&M sex. That thread would be EPIC. *writes those names down* Huh? What? Uhhh....just for research... Umm. Buffy has the exact same relationship with Angel: He's a monster who tries hard to be good, because he loves Buffy so much. If he's ever bad, and good girl Buffy has sex with him (because good girls don't have sex), he turns into the monster that will try to kill and eat her. Uhhh...you're confusing Angel and Spike. Angel is good because of a curse and massive amounts of guilt. Something he gets teased about relentlessly by Spike and others. As for the Angel and Buffy sex issue it was a metaphor for typical teenage girl fears which I'm not sure is what you meant in your post above. It is very much a literal version of "I had sex with him and now's dumped me and turned into a jerk." Quote Not too mention that Buffy doesn't admit she has feelings for Spike until after he beats her up? I can't remember now, but doesn't Spike do the old hold her down and kiss her routine? Way to go Joss! Well, that's Season 6 stuff and they'd pretty much left some of the metaphors and such from earlier seasons behind. Buffy was pretty fucked up in that season though from the resurrection and being pulled out of Heaven. I'd argue that Buffy in earlier seasons would have just kicked his ass. That season's Buffy was in a bad place. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sjofn on November 23, 2009, 07:49:54 PM The best stuff I saw on the entire thing was a series of Livejournal posts (http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html) that go into all the Mormon stuff. Yes, it's just Mormon abstinence porn. And my favorite feminist answer back, that shows off exactly how creepy the whole male/female attitudes of the series are: And then Buffy staked Edward. The End (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyCot4ORdOA). OK, that live journal thing about the mormonism is cracking my shit up. My favorite so far is: "HI THERE CREEPY AUTHOR WANTING TO BONE YOUR PROPHET. (I have no problem with bible slash, etc. Just... I don't think she knows she's doing it.)" laaaaawl Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sheepherder on November 23, 2009, 09:13:22 PM Jordan started out with an interesting theme of separate spheres of male-female power and dominance. The later books really just devolved into male wishfulfillment and diminishing the circle of female power. Birgitte is also a cougar. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Margalis on November 23, 2009, 11:02:06 PM Johny Cee is ripping into Buffy and James Bond. This is awesome.
One of the reasons I can't hate on Twilight that much, even though it's obviously extremely lame, is that it really isn't much lamer than a bunch of stuff that we just accept because they are expressions of dominant male culture. James Bond is the perfect example of that, he's basically a serial killer who preys on women. I like how Alan Moore put it in his intro to Dark Knight Returns: "we begin to see that the overriding factor in James Bond's psychological makeup is his utter hatred and contempt for women." it's always amazed me that a single woman on earth could stand to watch those movies. Not only are they pure schlock but the type of wish fulfillment they represent is more than a little disturbing. Apparently the perfect life is sleeping with and then killing as many women as possible while taking time out to masturbate with cool gadgets. I can't honestly say that sparkly 14-year-old super douche vampires is any worse. Edit: As far as Whedon goes, his female characters strike me as obviously created by a dude to appeal to dudes. Buffy was conventionally hot, SMG was laughably bad in fight scenes (but it doesn't matter cause she's hot), and her entire character was defined by her angsty relationships with men. Compare that to say Xena, who looked like a genuine ass kicker and didn't spend half of each episode pouting about how the latest Vampire Cyborg forgot her birthday or some shit. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Nerf on November 23, 2009, 11:22:41 PM (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/86041/funny-twilight-photoshop-picture.jpg)
:oh_i_see: Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Velorath on November 24, 2009, 02:53:41 AM One of the reasons I can't hate on Twilight that much, even though it's obviously extremely lame, is that it really isn't much lamer than a bunch of stuff that we just accept because they are expressions of dominant male culture. James Bond is the perfect example of that, he's basically a serial killer who preys on women. That might be an interesting point if James Bond fans were anywhere near as obsessive as Twilight fans. I think that's the main reason anyone even takes notice of this Twilight shit. It has nothing to do with dominant male culture and everything to do with the "what the fuck is wrong with kids today" mentality. It's probably more similar to how older people felt when everyone was going crazy over the original Star Wars trilogy. "Wait, those two who just kissed are actually brother and sister? What the fuck is this shit?". Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ironwood on November 24, 2009, 03:35:01 AM So I'm watching Snow White at the moment with the wean.
It's clear to me that this Prince is a 45 year old man and Snow White is about 16-17. Also, she's a domestic slave to seven twisted almost men. My advice would be not to overthink current fads and JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE. Don't even get me started on the Socio-economic theories inherent in Special Agent OSO. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Numtini on November 24, 2009, 04:06:05 AM The difference between James Bond and Twilight is that Bond is feeding male supremacist fantasies to men. Twilight is feeding male supremacist fantasies to girls.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 24, 2009, 05:52:28 AM I propose that Morat, WUA and Haemish do a joint review/round table discussion of Anne Bishop's "Dark Jewels" trilogy, or Jacquiline Carey's "Kushiel" books. One has magical cock-rings to keep males in line, and the other has a powerful female protagonist who's superpower is submissive S&M sex. My wife would kill me. I have a book list two feet high of stuff she wants me to read (half of which is teenage literature -- the best of the modern stuff that she tries to get her classrooms to read, and wants a male perspective on), and if she found out I read a new series entirely to get ready for a slap-fight online about it's literary merits, psychosexual hangups, or general ridiculousness/awesomeness -- well, she'd either kill me or demand to get to name the next set of books.That thread would be EPIC. On the other hand, magical cock rings? You have my attention. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: schild on November 24, 2009, 10:18:37 AM I'm on my phone so I'll be brief: Margalis, that was some super retarded shit.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 24, 2009, 10:27:12 AM Johny Cee is ripping into Buffy and James Bond. This is awesome. One of the reasons I can't hate on Twilight that much, even though it's obviously extremely lame, is that it really isn't much lamer than a bunch of stuff that we just accept because they are expressions of dominant male culture. James Bond is the perfect example of that, he's basically a serial killer who preys on women. I like how Alan Moore put it in his intro to Dark Knight Returns: "we begin to see that the overriding factor in James Bond's psychological makeup is his utter hatred and contempt for women." it's always amazed me that a single woman on earth could stand to watch those movies. Not only are they pure schlock but the type of wish fulfillment they represent is more than a little disturbing. Apparently the perfect life is sleeping with and then killing as many women as possible while taking time out to masturbate with cool gadgets. I may agree, if not for bonds back story of how he got that way. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 24, 2009, 10:29:06 AM Alan moore is also one of the last people that should be commenting on how to write female characters.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ironwood on November 24, 2009, 10:34:35 AM I was thinking the same thing.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ratman_tf on November 24, 2009, 10:49:23 AM My advice would be not to overthink current fads and JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE. End of the internet right there. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ingmar on November 24, 2009, 11:03:39 AM Put me down on the "emperor has no clothes" side for Whedon too. The embracing of Buffy as a "feminist" hero of any kind that I see happening (not just here, all over zee Internet) fairly baffles me.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ironwood on November 24, 2009, 11:11:43 AM My advice would be not to overthink current fads and JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE. End of the internet right there. I'm strangely ok with that. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 24, 2009, 11:23:07 AM Put me down on the "emperor has no clothes" side for Whedon too. The embracing of Buffy as a "feminist" hero of any kind that I see happening (not just here, all over zee Internet) fairly baffles me. I've never thought of her as feminist, although casting her in the role of vampire hunter rather than vamipire bait was at least a depature.With everything else, she seemed...complicated. (Although I'd like to pretend everything after High School never happened). Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sjofn on November 24, 2009, 11:36:40 AM One of the reasons I can't hate on Twilight that much, even though it's obviously extremely lame, is that it really isn't much lamer than a bunch of stuff that we just accept because they are expressions of dominant male culture. James Bond is the perfect example of that, he's basically a serial killer who preys on women. That might be an interesting point if James Bond fans were anywhere near as obsessive as Twilight fans. I think that's the main reason anyone even takes notice of this Twilight shit. It has nothing to do with dominant male culture and everything to do with the "what the fuck is wrong with kids today" mentality. It's probably more similar to how older people felt when everyone was going crazy over the original Star Wars trilogy. "Wait, those two who just kissed are actually brother and sister? What the fuck is this shit?". I am pretty confident part of the reason ladies are overdoing the OMG SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE thing with Twilight is that it's one of those glorious few times they get to openly lust over a pretty, pretty man and generally be complete morons over something silly. Dudes are allowed to indulge in their "durrrr, EYE CANDY YAY" all the time, and are also more often allowed to be stupid fans of stuff that just isn't that important or good. Ladies are supposed to be ABOVE wanting men just for their hot, hot bodies and are also alleged to be too "mature" to obsess over silly things like HOBBIES or FANDOMS. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: HaemishM on November 24, 2009, 11:42:13 AM That might be an interesting point if James Bond fans were anywhere near as obsessive as Twilight fans. I think that's the main reason anyone even takes notice of this Twilight shit. Actually, my problem isn't with the fans so much, as let's face it, these are just bodice rippers without the bodice or ripping. There will always be shit lit out there, whether abstaining chick or not - it makes lots of money, and at least people are reading. No, my problem with this is the same problem I had with Harry Potter - the goddamn media. The first movie and the books make a mint selling shit lit to functional emotional retards, and suddenly, I can't turn on the GODDAMN TELEVISION without hearing otherwise rational news people wanking over the newest book or movie release like it was the goddamn second coming. Same problem I have with Dan Brown - not only are there fucktastically bad writers out there making huge advances and selling movie rights (bad enough in itself but understandable) while I can't get the time of fucking day, but they are getting an absolute metric fuckton of BIG TIME EXPOSURE FOR FUCKING FREE. Diane Sawyer is slavering over the New Moon premiere on the morning show? Do you know how I would stab to death with my rigid cock to get 15 seconds of air time and one URL mention on Good Morning America? And this sloppy cunt writing rape fantasies and the douchiest looking boy band reject in the world are plastered on every media outlet I can find? I can't even get a fucking pancake platter at Burger Goddamn King without being ejaculated on by the latest media wankfest, and everyone involved is treating this shit like it's the modern goddamn Wuthering Heights. At least Wuthering Heights had some redeeming qualities - Twilight is just a Harlequin Romance without the sex. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Nevermore on November 24, 2009, 11:45:24 AM I am pretty confident part of the reason ladies are overdoing the OMG SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE thing with Twilight is that it's one of those glorious few times they get to openly lust over a pretty, pretty man and generally be complete morons over something silly. Dudes are allowed to indulge in their "durrrr, EYE CANDY YAY" all the time, and are also more often allowed to be stupid fans of stuff that just isn't that important or good. Ladies are supposed to be ABOVE wanting men just for their hot, hot bodies and are also alleged to be too "mature" to obsess over silly things like HOBBIES or FANDOMS. So Twilight is just a live action American bishonen anime. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Velorath on November 24, 2009, 02:03:18 PM I am pretty confident part of the reason ladies are overdoing the OMG SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE thing with Twilight is that it's one of those glorious few times they get to openly lust over a pretty, pretty man and generally be complete morons over something silly. Dudes are allowed to indulge in their "durrrr, EYE CANDY YAY" all the time, and are also more often allowed to be stupid fans of stuff that just isn't that important or good. Ladies are supposed to be ABOVE wanting men just for their hot, hot bodies and are also alleged to be too "mature" to obsess over silly things like HOBBIES or FANDOMS. I don't know, I see ladies openly lusting over men all that time. For instance, any time a movie with Channing Tatum comes out. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: lamaros on November 24, 2009, 04:12:03 PM The difference between James Bond and Twilight is that Bond is feeding male supremacist fantasies to men. Twilight is feeding male supremacist fantasies to girls. I think this is what bothers me the most, but then I might just be trying too hard. So I'm watching Snow White at the moment with the wean. It's clear to me that this Prince is a 45 year old man and Snow White is about 16-17. Also, she's a domestic slave to seven twisted almost men. My advice would be not to overthink current fads and JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE. So we're cool with perpetuating world views in which 45 year old white men act out their fantasies? I mean, sure, I get your point, but there's certainly scope for people to say "hang on, think about it: that's fucked up!" too. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: gryeyes on November 24, 2009, 04:27:47 PM Quote So we're cool with perpetuating world views in which 45 year old white men act out their fantasies? World views should be based on reality right? Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sjofn on November 24, 2009, 05:40:09 PM I don't know, I see ladies openly lusting over men all that time. For instance, any time a movie with Channing Tatum comes out. It isn't really the same. I don't know how to explain to a guy just how pervasive their "right" to check out women and declare their worth at the drop of a hat is compared to "omg Channing Tatum is hot." (I don't even know who that is, I'm so old and hermity. :( ) Also how they're allowed to declare if they would have sex with a woman, personality be damned, and no one ever cares. But women shrieking over sparkly vampire guy (in a safe silly way, even!)? Man, what's WRONG with them? EDIT: Yeah, Nevermore, I guess that's pretty much what I am saying. :P Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Samwise on November 24, 2009, 06:03:05 PM But women shrieking over sparkly vampire guy (in a safe silly way, even!)? Man, what's WRONG with them? Women openly shrieking over a hot guy isn't really what's being made fun of here. What's being made fun of is women who pretend that that's not the reason they're going to see the movie. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Abagadro on November 24, 2009, 08:03:38 PM The problem isn't with the themes, it's the ham-fisted and lame way they are conceptualized and implemented combined with the ridiculous level of devotion said drivel inspires.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sjofn on November 24, 2009, 10:42:19 PM The problem isn't with the themes, it's the ham-fisted and lame way they are conceptualized and implemented combined with the ridiculous level of devotion said drivel inspires. Sure, but I do find it funny that people (not necessarily you dudes, just in general) care so much when it's women eating up the ham-fisted bullshit with a ridiculous level of devotion, what's wrong with those crazy ladies? But men? At worst, they get called nerds. Oh noes! Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: pxib on November 25, 2009, 12:13:03 AM Sure, but I do find it funny that people (not necessarily you dudes, just in general) care so much when it's women eating up the ham-fisted bullshit with a ridiculous level of devotion, what's wrong with those crazy ladies? But men? At worst, they get called nerds. Oh noes! But but... she's having fantasies about the beautiful, wealthy, eternally young scion to one of the most powerful families on earth who promises to turn her into a superhero as soon as they're married. How can I possibly live up to that? :ye_gods:Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: lamaros on November 25, 2009, 12:17:02 AM You can even things up by not being a psychopath stalker with repressed homicidal urges? I think chicks dig that?
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: NowhereMan on November 25, 2009, 12:25:32 AM It shows you care!
Also I'm pretty sure we'd be bashing people who thought the Da Vinci Code was a literary masterpeice, fuck Haemish stuck them in the exact same category. They're horrible books but Twilight fans have elevated it to the status of art, so we mock them. If people went around claiming the James Bond films were cinematic masterpieces that really the intricacies of the Cold War they would be mocked just as much. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Margalis on November 25, 2009, 01:02:31 AM I've never met a real life Twilight Fan, let alone a gaggle of obsessive ones who claim it's the best thing ever. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: NowhereMan on November 25, 2009, 01:04:29 AM But I've seen them on the interwebs! Also yeah, I guess it's really closer to the Da Vinci Code. It's shitty popular literature some people think is really good and we mock because it makes us feel better than them.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Velorath on November 25, 2009, 02:09:43 AM I've never met a real life Twilight Fan, let alone a gaggle of obsessive ones who claim it's the best thing ever. Just sayin'. If you were at your local theater for the midnight opening you could have probably met hundreds of them. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: apocrypha on November 25, 2009, 02:54:47 AM I've never met a real life Twilight Fan, let alone a gaggle of obsessive ones who claim it's the best thing ever. Just sayin'. My girlfriend works in an open-plan office with something like 8-10 such people. They're all women, they apparently talk about it endlessly and some of them are actually fairly intelligent and mature. Them being all in the same office has clearly given confidence to those who would otherwise have kept as their dirty little secret and come out into the open. It's driving my gf round the bend. I think the need for escapist fantasies is stronger in society than many realise. And yes, I am WELL aware that such needs are not gender-restricted, especially on a forum dedicated to gaming :drillf: Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Big Gulp on November 25, 2009, 04:33:33 AM My girlfriend works in an open-plan office with something like 8-10 such people. They're all women, they apparently talk about it endlessly and some of them are actually fairly intelligent and mature. Them being all in the same office has clearly given confidence to those who would otherwise have kept as their dirty little secret and come out into the open. It's driving my gf round the bend. It was all every woman I worked on last week could talk about. It only served to heighten my already powerful misogyny. :grin: Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ironwood on November 25, 2009, 04:35:36 AM You know, if we didn't know you were a tatoo artist, that line would be creepy as all fuck.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: schild on November 25, 2009, 05:41:45 AM Quote I think the need for escapist fantasies is stronger in society than many realise. And yes, I am WELL aware that such needs are not gender-restricted, especially on a forum dedicated to gaming. Perhaps, but I think I'd prefer all the fans of Twilight be big Halo nerds instead. It'd be less annoying at least. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Stewie on November 25, 2009, 08:20:29 AM I gotta say that Im not really familiar with Twilight at all other than what I have heard her and that it is really popular.
That being said here is a Twilight Intervention that I found somewhat amusing. (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-15166-Dallas-Comedy-Examiner~y2009m11d25-Funny-video-shows-vampire-intervention-for-Twilight-New-Moon-fans-with-video) Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 25, 2009, 09:11:06 AM (http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/twilightretards0.jpg)
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sheepherder on November 25, 2009, 01:28:53 PM Perhaps, but I think I'd prefer all the fans of Twilight be big Halo nerds instead. It'd be less annoying at least. Unless they got onto a "artistic significance of the Cortana interludes" tangent, in which case any sane person would be morally compelled to shank them in the brain. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: LK on November 25, 2009, 02:01:40 PM I'm happy Twilight was made and is reaching such popularity. All the better to mock with biting humor like the above. It helps there is no one in my life screaming about it though.
It IS funny to read about a lesbian friend of mine wishing her girlfriend was more like Edward / Jacob. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Raging Turtle on November 25, 2009, 03:45:44 PM Piers Anthony was creepier.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 25, 2009, 04:17:46 PM Piers Anthony was creepier. Oh damn, was he ever. He had a really freaky fascination with underage sex. Of course Heinlein threw in incest and group marriages, every one of Chalker's books had the male character ending up with tits, and of course Goodkind writes Objectivist/BDSM porn. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sheepherder on November 25, 2009, 05:18:22 PM Of course Heinlein threw in incest and group marriages, every one of Chalker's books had the male character ending up with tits, and of course Goodkind writes Objectivist/BDSM porn. Robert Jordan manages all of those except incest (he implied he was heading that direction though), he still isn't as fucking weird as Meyer. Her book is even terrible thematically, it's about how a girl needs this guy in order to justify her existence, couched in terms of "true love", the end. Even motherfucking Ayn Rand is better than that. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Riggswolfe on November 25, 2009, 08:50:43 PM Of course Heinlein threw in incest and group marriages, every one of Chalker's books had the male character ending up with tits, and of course Goodkind writes Objectivist/BDSM porn. You know the weird thing is that Heinlein made an interesting case for some of his perversions in his novels. Really it boiled down to "consenting adults should be free to fuck each other regardless of family ties and/or marriage arrangements." Though the dude who had sex with his female clones almost did me in. As for Goodkind, I don't think you've ever read porn if you consider his stuff porn. Now..if you'd mentioned Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty stuff... And finally, I want to know what version of Bond Margalis is seeing where he sleeps with women and then kills them later. Bond is a misogynist asshole but Margalis makes him sound like a serial killer or something. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: UnSub on November 25, 2009, 09:11:19 PM Also, I would totally be called a dwarf. I mean honestly, who doesn't like dwarves? Elves? (http://th04.deviantart.net/fs26/300W/i/2008/104/6/6/___Twilight_Elf____by_de_vill.jpg) Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sheepherder on November 26, 2009, 01:29:37 AM And finally, I want to know what version of Bond Margalis is seeing where he sleeps with women and then kills them later. Bond is a misogynist asshole but Margalis makes him sound like a serial killer or something. Except it's irrelevant. Bond is an individual rendered scarred and callous by betrayal who places no value on his life, your basic antihero story, except it doesn't conclude nicely. Twilight is pure author self-insertion into a stillborn plot. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Margalis on November 26, 2009, 02:38:19 AM And finally, I want to know what version of Bond Margalis is seeing where he sleeps with women and then kills them later. Bond is a misogynist asshole but Margalis makes him sound like a serial killer or something. Whenever Bond sleeps with the big bad's female cohort she dies. We know that, Bond knows that. The fact that the writers always find some contrived way to kill them off in a fashion that makes Bond not directly culpable is just a way to keep him presentable and it gets increasingly lame with each passing movie. Having Bond strangle them immediately after sex would probably be just slightly too overt, so instead it's the tired old Bond has sex with them in the bed of their boss with ten henchmen spectating then expresses feigned mild surprise when they turn up dead 7 minutes later. Whether or not that is serial killing or serial making-death-imminent is academic. Quote Except it's irrelevant. Bond is an individual rendered scarred and callous by betrayal who places no value on his life, your basic antihero story, except it doesn't conclude nicely. Twilight is pure author self-insertion into a stillborn plot. And this right here is exactly what I'm talking about. Bond is total junk and transparent male power fantasy of the highest order. To pretend that Twilight is lame while Bond has some deep-seeded meaning is daft. It's fucking James Bond, the series where a guy with a metal jaw fights on the moon with a Chinaman who throws a deadly hat while negroes fire off laser guns that Denise Richards invented. I'm sure Twilight fans would tell you that sparkly ultra-douche is a 500 year old boy-man who can't love as his heart has been scarred by centuries of failed relationships or some such shit. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Velorath on November 26, 2009, 02:53:55 AM Stillborn plot? Have you seen A View to Kill? I guess making fun of people for liking terrible fiction isn't so fun when you're on the receiving end. I think most Bond fans will acknowledge that there have been a lot of bad Bond movies. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Margalis on November 26, 2009, 03:09:44 AM I edited those sentences out, but I'm glad you quoted them.
Quote I think most Bond fans will acknowledge that there have been a lot of bad Bond movies. And I'm sure once there are 27 Twilight movies Twilight fans will acknowledge that the one with nazi horse breeding vampire wasn't up to par. Then I'm sure we'll all congratulate them for having such discriminating tastes. Edit: Fun fact: The best Bond movie is In Like Flint. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: IainC on November 26, 2009, 03:21:37 AM The other thing about Bond, is that no-one sane is really trying to make the case that it's somehow profound and important. Bond can be mind-meltingly dumb at points but almost no-one is treating it as anything more than a very long-running popcorn franchise. Most people I know who go to watch Bond movies go and see the film, maybe buy the blu-ray and then pretty much forget about the oeuvre until the next one comes out. The Dan Brown parallel that was brought up is spot on in my opinion, it's not a 'boys' stuff vs girls' stuff' mockfest, it's a 'stupid crap that people take far too seriously' mockfest, Twilight fans have more in common with Birthers and Truthers than Bond fans or people who went to see Titanic over and over again.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Margalis on November 26, 2009, 03:39:37 AM Where's the evidence that Twilight fans take it super seriously, other than the protestations of some 30-something dudes with a creepy amount of knowledge about a series they claim to despise?
I've never seen anyone claim that Twilight is "profound and important." If you go to Amazon and look at 5--star reviews of the first book this is what you see. These are in order, I'm not cherry-picking: Quote This book is a guilty pleasure! The negative reviewers are, I am sad to say, correct about the downfalls of the story.. Quote The biggest downfall to this series is not that it is jam-packed with cliches, or that Bella is completely hopeless. The biggest downfall has got to be the marketing--the fact that every one of you disappointed readers had gotten your hopes up for 'the next big thing,' only to find that it wasn't to your liking. Quote Edward Cullen, the vampire, is perfect - and we are reminded of exactly how perfect nearly too often. While reading the book, I found myself frustrated with the never-ending descriptions of his perfect body, perfect hair, model-like looks (maybe I was jealous? Quote I loved this book and can say I was obsessed with it for months after I read it. I encourage everyone looking for a great modern romance to try this one out. This sounds less like a creepy cult of insane devotees akin to idiotic political movements and more like some people read a book and enjoyed it. OH NOES! What's so sinister and disturbing? A lot of people really like it but I don't see a whole lot of "THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT WORK OF ALL TIME" hyperbole. Edit: Stop making me defend Twilight. Yes it sucks. But most genre fiction is escapist fantasy that appeals to a certain demographic in ways outside observers can't connect with. Our book thread here is 95% about books where dudes shoot space lasers at each other or a band of heroes including the lovable irascible dwarf defeats the evil dark emperor. Birthers and truthers? What? Step away from the politics! Oh no, some people like bodice ripping vampire soft porn! That's the same as thinking 9/11 was an inside job! The demographic for Twilight is pretty much the exact same demographic as the Titanic audience and they like it for the same basic reasons. Birthers and truthers? Come on. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: IainC on November 26, 2009, 04:24:55 AM I dunno how you can claim that there somehow isn't a gigantic groundswell of overwrought sentiment about this series, because there very clearly is (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=twilight+is+the+most+awesome+thing+ever). You've been comparing this to male escapist fantasies when that isn't really accurate. It is a female escapist fantasy but there are a lot of people who are building this stuff up into some kind of gift from heaven in a way that simply doesn't happen routinely. I compared them to birthers and truthers because they have the same mentality with regards to evangelising their truth and bunkering against hostile points of view - more so than with pretty much any other pop-fad in recent times. I know several women who went and saw Titanic every day for the first couple of weeks that it was released. When discussing why I didn't like the movie I got shrugs and 'oh well, it's not really for you', I told the same women that I didn't like Twilight and I was lucky to escape with all my limbs.
I don't know, perhaps it's the magnifying effect of the internet again but I'm seeing a lot more 'my life has been changed' type stuff about Twilight than I remember seeing from any other shitty genre fiction in a long while. Anyhow, want to know what's worse than Twilight? Twilight fan-fic. Want to know what's worse than regular Twilight fanfic? Tila Tequila Twilight fanfic written by the lady herself (http://www.tilashotspot.buzznet.com/web/tila/journals/tilatequila/entry/5406831/). Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Abagadro on November 26, 2009, 09:34:39 AM Let me know when legions of men start referring to themselves as part of Team Blofeld.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 26, 2009, 09:53:32 AM Let me know when legions of men start referring to themselves as part of Team Blofeld. And now I have a guild name. Thanks!Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: K9 on November 26, 2009, 10:11:43 AM The to 20 Unfortunate Lessons Girls Learn From Twilight:New Moon (http://www.wired.com/underwire/2009/11/twilight-lessons-girls-learn/)
Quote 1. If a boy is aloof, stand-offish, ignores you or is just plain rude, it is because he is secretly in love with you — and you are the point of his existence. 2. Secrets are good — especially life-threatening ones. 3. It’s OK for a potential romantic interest to be dimwitted, violent and vengeful — as long as he has great abs. 4. If a boy tells you to stay away from him because he is dangerous and may even kill you, he must be the love of your life. You should stay with him since he will keep you safe forever. 5. If a boy leaves you, especially suddenly (while telling you he will never see you again), it is because he loves you so much he will suffer just to keep you safe. 6. When a boy leaves you, going into shock, losing all your friends and enduring night terrors are completely acceptable occurrences — as long as you keep your grades up. 7. It is extremely romantic to put yourself in dangerous situations in order to see your ex-boyfriend again. It’s even more romantic to remember the sound of his voice when he yelled at you. 8. Boys who leave you always come back. 9. Because they come back, you should hold out, waiting for them for months, even when completely acceptable and less-abusive alternative males present themselves. 10. Even though you have no intention of dating an alternative male who expresses interest in you, it is fine to string the young man along for months. Also, you should use him to fix things for you. Maybe he’ll even buy you something. 11. You should use said male to fix things because girls are incapable of anything mechanical or technical. 12. Lying to your parents is fine. Lying to your parents while you run away to save your suicidal boyfriend is an extremely good idea that shows your strength and maturity. Also, it is what you must do. 13. Car theft in the service of love is acceptable. 14. If the boy you are in love with causes you (even indirectly) to be so badly beaten you end up in the hospital, you should tell the doctors and your family that you “fell down the steps” because you are such a silly, clumsy girl. That false explanation always works well for abused women. 15. Men can be changed for the better if you sacrifice everything you are and devote yourself to their need for change. 16. Young women should make no effort to improve their social skills or emotional state. Instead, they should seek out potential mates that share their morose deficiencies and emotional illnesses. 17. Girls shouldn’t always read a book series just because everyone else has. 18. When writing a book series, it’s acceptable to lift seminal source material and bastardize it with tired, overwrought teenage angst. 19. When making or watching a major feature film, you should gleefully embrace the 20 minutes of plot it provides in between extended segments of vacant-eyed silence and self-indulgent, moaning banter. 20. Vampires — once among the great villains of literature and motion pictures — are no longer scary. In fact, they’re every bit as whiny, self-absorbed and impotent as any human being. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sheepherder on November 26, 2009, 10:28:03 AM And this right here is exactly what I'm talking about. Bond is total junk and transparent male power fantasy of the highest order. To pretend that Twilight is lame while Bond has some deep-seeded meaning is daft. It doesn't have meaning, it has most of the components of a story though, and that's enough for most popcorn movies. Twilight is a romance / vampire genre story with absolutely no conflict at all, starring Mormons, without the gestalt of a vampire story. You could count the boyfriend choosing as conflict, if it wasn't made abundantly obvious at all times that the protagonist wants vampire dude. Yeah, that's completely comparable to Bond. Incidentally, all of my sisters think this is shit. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: stray on November 26, 2009, 10:48:37 AM Mormons are the perfect model for Vampires though. I believe they keep harems, posses some form of mind control, sit outside people's windows and beckon them, offer eternal life, etc..
edit: Ugh.. I pull that awful shit above on many girls. Especially the "stay away, I might kill you" bit. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Velorath on November 26, 2009, 11:22:15 AM Where's the evidence that Twilight fans take it super seriously, other than the protestations of some 30-something dudes with a creepy amount of knowledge about a series they claim to despise? I've never seen anyone claim that Twilight is "profound and important." If you go to Amazon and look at 5--star reviews of the first book this is what you see. These are in order, I'm not cherry-picking: You didn't cherry-pick the reviews but you certainly cherry-picked the parts of them you quoted. Anyway, we aren't talking about the fucking Sasquatch or the Loch Ness Monster here. I'm not sure what kind of evidence you're looking for (the fact that it set the record for midnight showing box office grosses and opening day box office grosses should be some sign), but while you're crawling the Internet trying to prove their existence, most of us have actually seen them. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: stray on November 26, 2009, 11:50:08 AM If I was to judge by people I know, I don't think they take it seriously. They're just sort of obliviously fanatical. I know a few who are responsible for those "midnight viewings", and even think they need to see it a second (or third!) time, and are so clueless that they just want to pick up and make me see it too.. "cause I'll love it."
I sort of see it in the same way that I view the Road Warrior or CCR. I've yet to meet one woman who liked them. Even though I think they'll "just love it". Basically Twilight and Road Warrior are both on the extreme ends of female and male interest, and neither is gonna give a shit about the other. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: lamaros on November 26, 2009, 04:34:26 PM Marg is more right than the rest of you.
I don't know what the problem is, do some of you just like Bond that much? A friend of mine was roped in to seeing Twilight at midnight for her friend's birthday with a bunch of other girls. She bought said birthday girl a life sized cutout of wassisname as a present. Guess what? They all thought it was a huge and hilarious (and sometimes disturbing) joke and had a lot of fun with it. None of them are demented psychopaths. Twilight is just Harry Potter for adolescent girls and 40 year old women. I've see far worse from male fans of Fight Club. Good god they are surely the most self-righteous stupid bunch of idiots in existence. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Margalis on November 26, 2009, 05:07:43 PM I dunno how you can claim that there somehow isn't a gigantic groundswell of overwrought sentiment about this series, because there very clearly is (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=twilight+is+the+most+awesome+thing+ever). Your link includes "The Most Awesome Science Video about DNA Ever Made" and "Metroid Prime Trilogy - The Most Awesom-iste Thing Ever." Unless you're trying to claim that science nerds and Metroid fans are also equivalent to birthers and truthers I would suggest reading your links before you throw them out as evidence of something. Quote from: Lamaros I've see far worse from male fans of Fight Club. Good god they are surely the most self-righteous stupid bunch of idiots in existence. Ruh-roh now you've really done it! Quote from: Velorath I'm not sure what kind of evidence you're looking for (the fact that it set the record for midnight showing box office grosses and opening day box office grosses should be some sign), Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it dethrone a movie about a rich playboy detective in bat long undies fighting against a killer clown who has been arrested and released from jail roughly 14,000 times to keep the same plot on life support for 50+ years? I think it's also important to point out that every year features numerous blockbuster movies aimed at men. This year we had giant robots fighting the movie, nerds in space the movie, and man with metal claws the movie. Stuff aimed at women is mostly rom-com garbage or Oscar bait. Big popcorn movies aimed at women are relatively rare, so it's only natural that when they come around once every ten years or so they do well. Anyway you've gone from arguing that Twilight fans are crazy obsessed freaks to arguing that Twilight is popular. Yeah, no shit. So is Michael Bay. But some of the people in this thread are as obsessive as actual Twilight fans. It's kind of funny that a bunch of older dudes who claim to hate Twilight know the plot details, have worked up intricate bios on the author, read Twilight fan fiction and keep tabs on the fanbase. Twilight is popular and it probably sucks. Sure. That's it? Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: UnSub on November 26, 2009, 05:52:44 PM That's it. And you shut your mouth about Batman! :why_so_serious:
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: WindupAtheist on November 26, 2009, 06:51:27 PM I pretty much made up my mind when the aforementioned "I read it because I hate it!" friend told me about how the guy would break into the girl's house to stare at her in her sleep. Without him being taken as a huge creep in the eyes of the author/fans. That whole thing where the one werewolf dude falls in love with the girl's newborn half-vampire superbaby is just the insane icing on the lunatic cake.
It's like the Anakin/Padme thing from Star Wars, except played straight as True Eternal Love instead of ending with the girl being strangled to death. The problem men (and some women) have with Twilight isn't "Oh noes a FEMALE fantasy movie!" in comparison to male fantasies like James Bond. The problem is "Wait, your fantasy is to be STALKED? Really? If my sister had a boyfriend like this I'd beat his ass!" Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: lamaros on November 26, 2009, 07:12:19 PM What's worse, a fantasy of being stalked by someone who is hot and turns out to love you devotedly and whatever, or to fantasise about rape/incest/physical and mental domination/murder/what the fuck ever... which is found much more commonly and explicitly in most of the shit we read and watch all the time?
I read David Wingrove, but I sure as hell didn't buy into the disgusting shit he wrote about. Pretty sure I can give myself a pass on being able to discern those worrying elements and avoid them (when I was in my early teens), so I seems hypocritical to turn around and say "oh, what I really don't like about Twilight is the female fantasies it demonstrates" as if it's going to corrupt the minds of women everywhere who read it... I had a bit of a reaction like that myself, but I'm more inclined to think I'm being a controlling dick when I think such things. I don't need to babysit my female family and friends, they're able to see just how stupid some parts of the book are as I am. Most of the reaction in here strikes me more of a "we know what's best for young girls, how dare they read Twilight" conversation than anything else. Which, considering the demographic, is pretty hilarious and disturbing in its own right. Edit: Doubly so when you consider that I'm inclined to agree with Numtini, in that Twilight is pretty male, not female, in a number of its fantasies. "Oh no, we don't want to condition young girls into dealing with creepy behaviour by guys, we want them to be more like the girls in our novels, where they put out and do what they're told all the... wait..." Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: stray on November 26, 2009, 07:14:28 PM Vampires have been staring at people sleeping at least since Lugosi.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sjofn on November 26, 2009, 09:11:11 PM I see the level of silly fanish-ness a lot more comparable to something like Star Wars. It isn't, at its core, very good, but it's a fun escape and a lot of people (mostly men) take it way too fucking seriously. But we don't have people doing all this bullshit over Star Wars. But Twilight? THOSE CRAZY LADIES!
You know why women like Twilight? Edward wouldn't be a crybaby about Bella reading Twilight. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Megrim on November 26, 2009, 09:43:00 PM Oh, that's a low blow.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ratman_tf on November 26, 2009, 09:44:41 PM I tried dressing as Count Chocula and breaking into a girls bedroom to stare at her while she slept.
It didn't work. :heartbreak: Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Velorath on November 26, 2009, 09:53:31 PM I see the level of silly fanish-ness a lot more comparable to something like Star Wars. It isn't, at its core, very good, but it's a fun escape and a lot of people (mostly men) take it way too fucking seriously. But we don't have people doing all this bullshit over Star Wars. But Twilight? THOSE CRAZY LADIES! Yeah, nobody holds negative opinions of obsessive Star Wars fans :roll: Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sir T on November 27, 2009, 12:59:57 AM That link to that ggirl doing the chapter walkthrough was some of the funniest shit I've read in a long time.
But seriously everyone is glossing over the most retarded bit. Apparently the only reason the guy even noticed her was he could not read her thoughts, and then once she had gotten his attention (by not having a mind to read which drove him crazy becasue he is a paranoid obsessive) he noticed that she smelled... delicious... Excuse me while I go fall in love with a hamburger. Oh and my friend who's read the books said the closes thing to action in the second book was when one of the "bad" vampires tried to kill her by drowning her, and the wolf comes and saves her. Excuse me but if I was a vampire I could think of a few different ways the kill someone you wanted to get rid of, other then drowning them. Hint: it could involve a drinking straw. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: WindupAtheist on November 27, 2009, 02:31:49 AM Excuse me but if I was a vampire I could think of a few different ways the kill someone you wanted to get rid of, other then drowning them. Hint: it could involve a drinking straw. That's for pussies. Asteroid bombardment or GTFO. Wait which thread is this? Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ironwood on November 27, 2009, 02:40:06 AM Put me in the camp of people who are stranged out that we've talked about this for 6 pages.
All clearly hating it and wondering why anyone's talking about it. As far as I can tell, it's just a much weaker Harry Potter. Big whoop. This would appear to be the new formula for success; weak book, weaker movies, milk it until it's dry. Again, I refer the right honourable Gentlemen to the 'Big Whoop' I gave some moments ago... Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: stray on November 27, 2009, 03:43:36 AM I don't hate it (well, haven't seen this one). I don't care either way, I guess.. But it is funny that so many get pissed off about it. And it's funny as well that some women are building expectations/fantasies of men from it. Some. I think.
The only thing that disappoints me is that some (not all) of the Twlight fans I know actually think it's better than True Blood. I feel like wringing their necks out. Especially considering that it's more their "age" demographic too. But the thing is, it's a romance too --- just better. That's a fact. I will think you an idiot if you just prefer Twilight over it. I wouldn't necessarily consider one an idiot just for liking Twilight. Damn, I typed too much. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: NowhereMan on November 27, 2009, 05:01:00 AM Edit: Doubly so when you consider that I'm inclined to agree with Numtini, in that Twilight is pretty male, not female, in a number of its fantasies. "Oh no, we don't want to condition young girls into dealing with creepy behaviour by guys, we want them to be more like the girls in our novels, where they put out and do what they're told all the... wait..." See I think the fact that it's kind of marketing 'male' fantasy to girls is weird, the whole 'oh noes my one true love said he's going to leave me forever, now I must mope for months in a bottomless pit of depression. Wait, it's alright he came back, thank god my life can go on again. Also I can tell the nice guy that's actually been there for me that he can go back to being just a good friend." The thing is the weird and creepiness requires taking a step back (not a big one) but some sort of step back from the novel (I'm guessing, I doubt it would have sold as well if she'd straight up written Edward as an abusive stalker) so that's not such a 'OMG she's ruining the next generation of girls you guys!". It's something which is fun to point out to people who are strongly fans of the series in the same way some people enjoy pointing out plot inconsistencies and other shit to Star Wars fans. Teasing people over silly things is fun, especially if it really doesn't matter and they get annoyed (and you're not dating/married to them). However like Ironwood said, it's a fucking series of books that girls enjoy and that's also gotten itself a huge fucking marketing campaign going. Noone's going to launch a 6 page thread on the fucking baby sitter's club for telling girls that all they really need in life is to look after children because it's a stupid book that girls enjoy reading, it's not a pamphlet on how to live one's life. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 27, 2009, 05:27:38 AM But seriously everyone is glossing over the most retarded bit. Apparently the only reason the guy even noticed her was he could not read her thoughts, and then once she had gotten his attention (by not having a mind to read which drove him crazy becasue he is a paranoid obsessive) he noticed that she smelled... delicious... Oh sokie. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: stray on November 27, 2009, 05:59:38 AM Edit: Doubly so when you consider that I'm inclined to agree with Numtini, in that Twilight is pretty male, not female, in a number of its fantasies. "Oh no, we don't want to condition young girls into dealing with creepy behaviour by guys, we want them to be more like the girls in our novels, where they put out and do what they're told all the... wait..." See I think the fact that it's kind of marketing 'male' fantasy to girls is weird, the whole 'oh noes my one true love said he's going to leave me forever, now I must mope for months in a bottomless pit of depression. Wait, it's alright he came back, thank god my life can go on again. Also I can tell the nice guy that's actually been there for me that he can go back to being just a good friend." The thing is the weird and creepiness requires taking a step back (not a big one) but some sort of step back from the novel (I'm guessing, I doubt it would have sold as well if she'd straight up written Edward as an abusive stalker) so that's not such a 'OMG she's ruining the next generation of girls you guys!". It's something which is fun to point out to people who are strongly fans of the series in the same way some people enjoy pointing out plot inconsistencies and other shit to Star Wars fans. Teasing people over silly things is fun, especially if it really doesn't matter and they get annoyed (and you're not dating/married to them). However like Ironwood said, it's a fucking series of books that girls enjoy and that's also gotten itself a huge fucking marketing campaign going. Noone's going to launch a 6 page thread on the fucking baby sitter's club for telling girls that all they really need in life is to look after children because it's a stupid book that girls enjoy reading, it's not a pamphlet on how to live one's life. I don't know why you want to point out that one is creepier than the other. From what I understand, Edward Cullen is not exactly creepy in all these ways you want to jokingly warn girls about. He has all the typical creepy vampire behavior, but she also dismantled the vampire archetype with him. I mean, he's a dude who loves his family, plays baseball, and abstains from the typical vampire diet. One who holds back lust as well. Basically, all of the writer's silly Apple Pie shit projected on to a vamp character. Sounds like a nice kid. He only stands over the bed because he's "concerned". Anyways, I've not seen the movie/read this book, but just because a dude leaves a chick for awhile (if that's what I read right) doesn't make him an asshole. I could be missing a whole bunch of shit as to why he's an asshole, but why is that creepy? And if we're going to overanalyze, from what I understand, the Indian dude is xenophobic (those damn natives!). He's not nice either if you think about it. [edit] Eh, not sure why people bailing on another/coming back etc is male fantasy either. Women do that shit all the time. Seriously wtf are you guys talking about? Or maybe I'm not just not reading shit right today. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 27, 2009, 06:37:42 AM I don't know why you want to point out that one is creepier than the other. From what I understand, Edward Cullen is not exactly creepy in all these ways you want to jokingly warn girls about. He has all the typical creepy vampire behavior, but she also dismantled the vampire archetype with him. I mean, he's a dude who loves his family, plays baseball, and abstains from the typical vampire diet. One who holds back lust as well. Basically, all of the writer's silly Apple Pie shit projected on to a vamp character. Sounds like a nice kid. He only stands over the bed because he's "concerned". I feel horrible about this, but it's a true fact: Vampires who don't drink blood and don't act like Dracula are mainstream vampires now.The vampire archtype is a whiny bitch filling his diary with angsty rants about his fight against his desire to drink blood, and practically cutting himself because he can't bask in the brilliant sunlight. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Merusk on November 27, 2009, 06:45:45 AM You're right. I blame Anne Rice.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Big Gulp on November 27, 2009, 07:36:44 AM You're right. I blame Anne Rice. Come on, it started long before her. Bela Lugosi started the whole "sexy vampire" thing, although I'll give him props for not being a whiny bitch about it. Nosferatu is still the reigning champ of vampire movies. That movie is all about decay, death, and dread. No one has bettered what Murnau did 90 years ago. ETA: Upon further reflection, Bela wasn't even the start of that. Shit, Varney the Vampire and Camilla came out well before Stoker wrote Dracula, so the whole succubus/incubus combined with vampirism theme has been with us since at least the 19th century. Other authors also touched on the whole curse of immortality thing, but I guess you're right that Rice really amped it up and threw in a healthy dose of homoeroticism to boot. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: NowhereMan on November 27, 2009, 07:45:47 AM Stray, I said most of that stuff only becomes creepy when you step back somewhat from the novel. It's not written to be taken that way and plenty of fans reading without seeing that (or ignoring it or acting totally in denial over it) at all. The thing is though creeping into someone's room that you don't know just to watch them sleep (and in fact planning on going back to do it again so it isn't even some bizarre sudden giving into temptation thing) is creepy. Yes, he does it because he loves her so incredibly much and it's fine because she loves him just as much. It's just so easy to point to it and say, "Hey look! Weird and creepy those are all things you specifically don't want people to do in real life." Hell the last book reveals that half the time in the first book when the girl thinks she's alone he's actually watching her from the bushes and thinking about how great she smells.
Also waiting by windows, etc. might be typical vampire things but it still really doesn't work as a romantic lead type thing. If her tore her throat out or used his glittering hypno power to seduce her it would also be a typical vampire thing but wouldn't really be the kind of thing that should be in a romance novel. At least not in the normal healthy vision of what romance should be like. As the woman writer in WUA's link said it's much more satisfying to read this as two weird masochist types who find the perfect partners to pay weird attention to each other. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: stray on November 27, 2009, 11:31:08 AM Stray, I said most of that stuff only becomes creepy when you step back somewhat from the novel. It's not written to be taken that way and plenty of fans reading without seeing that (or ignoring it or acting totally in denial over it) at all. The thing is though creeping into someone's room that you don't know just to watch them sleep (and in fact planning on going back to do it again so it isn't even some bizarre sudden giving into temptation thing) is creepy. Yes, he does it because he loves her so incredibly much and it's fine because she loves him just as much. It's just so easy to point to it and say, "Hey look! Weird and creepy those are all things you specifically don't want people to do in real life." Hell the last book reveals that half the time in the first book when the girl thinks she's alone he's actually watching her from the bushes and thinking about how great she smells. Also waiting by windows, etc. might be typical vampire things but it still really doesn't work as a romantic lead type thing. If her tore her throat out or used his glittering hypno power to seduce her it would also be a typical vampire thing but wouldn't really be the kind of thing that should be in a romance novel. At least not in the normal healthy vision of what romance should be like. As the woman writer in WUA's link said it's much more satisfying to read this as two weird masochist types who find the perfect partners to pay weird attention to each other. I dunno man. It sounds like you're kind of going some other extreme where you want.... umm.. I guess.. "realistic" romantic values to be cherished. Whatever those may be. If that's the case, and you're not alone, and sort of.. one of the billion Al Bundys out there or something, then it's exactly why some chicks eat these type of stories up. Heh. ;) There's the whole twist to vamp literature that stands apart from other romantic stories that makes them weird, I'd agree, but it sounds like you're calling their romantic intensity creepy as well. And then BigGulp is above you just wanting vamps to be grotesque like Nosferatu and shit. I disagree with both of you. I think Edward Cullen is too watered down, but the "sexy vampire" in general is a cool thing. For example, there's a line that Gary Oldman's Drac says when he first spots Mina - "I have crossed oceans of time to find you.." I'm a guy, but I'd admit that dude was fucking money in that scene. And if we're going to criticize intense romantic desire, then may as well call the cops on equally creepy - non vamp "romantic" characters like Cusack blasting his boombox outside his ex-girlfriend's house. Or that old fart in the Notebook who literally moves in a nursing home to be with his Alzheimer's wife - and thinks he can remind her who he is and that he loves her. That stuff is unrealistic and creepy too, but I'd hand it to anyone who actually had it in them. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 27, 2009, 11:33:39 AM I gotta admit, his pimp hand was strong.
(http://thetorchonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gary-oldman-dracula.jpg) Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: lac on November 27, 2009, 12:03:11 PM So nobody who has posted in this thread has actually seen the movie?
It's about time somebody takes one for the team. also: (http://imgur.com/15pq0.jpg) Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: stray on November 27, 2009, 12:11:21 PM I'll do it I guess. :grin:
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: IainC on November 27, 2009, 02:29:35 PM So nobody who has posted in this thread has actually seen the movie? It's about time somebody takes one for the team. Apart from the guy in the very first post you mean? Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: schild on November 27, 2009, 07:06:05 PM So nobody who has posted in this thread has actually seen the movie? Grenades, imo.It's about time somebody takes one for the team. also: (http://imgur.com/15pq0.jpg) Yes, that is pun. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Slyfeind on November 27, 2009, 07:22:06 PM Anyway you've gone from arguing that Twilight fans are crazy obsessed freaks to arguing that Twilight is popular. Yeah, no shit. So is Michael Bay. But some of the people in this thread are as obsessive as actual Twilight fans. It's kind of funny that a bunch of older dudes who claim to hate Twilight know the plot details, have worked up intricate bios on the author, read Twilight fan fiction and keep tabs on the fanbase. Buffy haters are the same way. I think it's a vampire thing. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: schild on November 27, 2009, 07:46:27 PM Anyway you've gone from arguing that Twilight fans are crazy obsessed freaks to arguing that Twilight is popular. Yeah, no shit. So is Michael Bay. But some of the people in this thread are as obsessive as actual Twilight fans. It's kind of funny that a bunch of older dudes who claim to hate Twilight know the plot details, have worked up intricate bios on the author, read Twilight fan fiction and keep tabs on the fanbase. Buffy haters are the same way. I think it's a vampire thing.I couldn't tell you anything about either of them. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: ghost on November 27, 2009, 07:46:42 PM I had to watch this piece of shit tonight.
It gave me an idea for a new book, however, that I think will work. It will center around a coven of short, balding, non-athletic, dull witted, out of shape men that mostly sit around playing Dungeons and Dragons, Magic: The Gathering and Warhammer. They do this (of course) to protect their potential victims from their monstrous nature. From time to time they will interrupt this to go on a feeding frenzy that consists mostly of Papa John's pepperoni (they're "vegetarians", you know"). It all gets turned on its ear when one of them (the hot, mysterious one) falls in love with the check out girl at the local comic book store. It is all he can do to keep from turning her into a fat vampire, too. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: schild on November 27, 2009, 07:49:21 PM It gave me an idea for a new book, however, that I think will work. It will center around a coven of short, balding, non-athletic, dull witted, out of shape men that mostly sit around playing Dungeons and Dragons, Magic: The Gathering and Warhammer. They do this (of course) to protect their potential victims from their monstrous nature. From time to time they will interrupt this to go on a feeding frenzy that consists mostly of Papa John's pepperoni (they're "vegetarians", you know"). It all gets turned on its ear when one of them (the hot, mysterious one) falls in love with the check out girl at the local comic book store. It is all he can do to keep from turning her into a fat vampire, too. I think you stole that from Kevin Smith. Also, here's some :oh_i_see: for you. Seriously, that sort of argument sometimes works, but it doesn't here. Much like Harry Potter, most Twilight fans can not talk about Twilight intelligently. In fact, they don't talk about anything intelligently. It's why they're into fucking Twilight. With games (games is a bad point because the Madden and FPS communities bring down the average, but you know what I'm getting at), D&D, and hell, artsy cinema, you'd be hardpressed to find someone who couldn't at least "fake" intelligent discourse. I'll take a fat slovenly nerd over someone who thinks vampire novels are hot any day. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: ghost on November 27, 2009, 07:55:17 PM Thanks for the :oh_i_see:. It makes me feel all giggly inside, like a little school girl. Or maybe that's the residual Twilight effect.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: schild on November 27, 2009, 07:56:51 PM Thanks for the :oh_i_see:. It makes me feel all giggly inside, like a little school girl. Or maybe that's the residual Twilight effect. The Oh, I See was for your crap argument. Twilight just made you retarded. Edit: But it's ok, Margalis tried to make that argument further up and it was stupid then, too. I'll admit, I know a whole lot about stupid shit (not Twilight, but still), and frankly, I'm at least willing to call that stuff "Stupid Shit" and don't claim it to be any sort of good or even remotely awesome. Except Congo, that shit is off the hook. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: ghost on November 27, 2009, 08:05:37 PM The Oh, I See was for your crap argument. I was arguing? Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: schild on November 27, 2009, 08:10:47 PM The Oh, I See was for your crap argument. I was arguing?Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: WindupAtheist on November 27, 2009, 08:15:19 PM Everyone's seen it but I'll post it anyway.
(http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/7200000/twilight-blade-twilight-series-7218972-400-267.jpg) Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: bhodi on November 27, 2009, 08:19:40 PM And it makes me laugh every time.
Every. Time. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Morat20 on November 27, 2009, 08:37:51 PM Blade's not technically a vampire, right? So we can claim he falls outside the "Not Vampire Vampires Are Today's Vampires" thing.
Of course, as someone noted above -- vampires have never actually been vampires, and what defines vampire has and always will be fluid. So I guess technically it's just a matter of taste if you prefer your vampires to be the hot, angsty, obsessive Children of the Night or the creepy, fucked up monsters that prey on all that is good in the world. *shrug*. I thought the movie sucked, and I desperately wished I'd brought an iPod (yes, I saw it today. Not by choice). Then again, I tried the first book after I caught my wife talking to it and couldn't stand the writing, plot, characters or...well, anything...and tossed it after about three chapters. About the only common answer I've gotten about the appeal of the books or movies is that it lets people's inner 14-year old girls out, creepy stalker overtones or not. And since I just got done playing X-Com because it let MY inner 14 year old out (my inner 14 year old -- or roughly thereabouts -- haveing played it when it first came out), I suppose I can't bitch much. Still, The Dark Is Rising was better. It did make me think of Carpe Noctum, though. I think there's plenty of room for a vampire movie in which vampires convince humanity they're beautful, sad, emotionally vulnerable people cursed to fight against their animal urges and leverage that into controlling the world --- then laugh and feast off us behind the scenes. More or less like the Blade movies concept, but with vampires having commissioned all this angsty shit so their prey loves them and donates to them and frankly can't imagine them being, you know, predators that eat people. I'd watch that movie. Especially if a Twilght fan got eaten first. :) Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: schild on November 27, 2009, 08:40:49 PM (http://www.firstshowing.net/img/fido-poster-red.jpg)
No, it has nothing to do with vampires, but this thread desperately needed something awesome. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: lamaros on November 27, 2009, 09:11:38 PM Thanks for the :oh_i_see:. It makes me feel all giggly inside, like a little school girl. Or maybe that's the residual Twilight effect. The Oh, I See was for your crap argument. Twilight just made you retarded. Edit: But it's ok, Margalis tried to make that argument further up and it was stupid then, too. I'll admit, I know a whole lot about stupid shit (not Twilight, but still), and frankly, I'm at least willing to call that stuff "Stupid Shit" and don't claim it to be any sort of good or even remotely awesome. Except Congo, that shit is off the hook. You are not representative. I'm sure we can rustle up a number of people, from this board no less, who are incapable of talking about the stupid shit they like with any sort of intelligence. Let alone the internet generally. You admit you know shit all about Twilight, what makes you think you have any idea about the people who read the books? Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: schild on November 27, 2009, 09:17:28 PM Quote ...what makes you think you have any idea about the people who read the books? I'm an excellent judge of people. For example, you're not being a white knight. You're an internet douchebag being argumentative for no worthwhile reason. Of course, that's unfair since it's how 99% of your posts come off and 2903 is a fairly safe sample size for such a thing. Hell, let's just go back a couple pages: Quote Twilight is just Harry Potter for adolescent girls and 40 year old women. I've see far worse from male fans of Fight Club. Good god they are surely the most self-righteous stupid bunch of idiots in existence. Twilight isn't Harry Potter for adolescent girls and 40 year old women. Harry Potter is Harry Potter for adolescent girls and 40 year old women. But anyone who knows the demographics of the readership of both would never say anything so stupid. Also, male fight club fans aren't the problem. It's males who fancy themselves clever after watching something like Fight Club and saying "Oh I get it. It's art." Just like Twilight and Harry Potter didn't make these people stupid, Fight Club didn't either. It's just the mass market demographic that's like that. Like what you ask? Stupid. That's what. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: lamaros on November 27, 2009, 09:40:43 PM Also, male fight club fans aren't the problem. It's males who fancy themselves clever after watching something like Fight Club and saying "Oh I get it. It's art." There are other kind of Fight Club fans? Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: schild on November 27, 2009, 09:52:34 PM Also, male fight club fans aren't the problem. It's males who fancy themselves clever after watching something like Fight Club and saying "Oh I get it. It's art." There are other kind of Fight Club fans? Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ratman_tf on November 27, 2009, 10:02:56 PM You know what this thread reminds me of? All the hate that single adults had for Barney the Dinosaur. I never could figure out why the fuck they even cared about a kids show in the first place.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: ghost on November 27, 2009, 10:14:45 PM Fight Club actually had very little to do with fighting.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: schild on November 27, 2009, 11:15:28 PM You know what this thread reminds me of? All the hate that single adults had for Barney the Dinosaur. I never could figure out why the fuck they even cared about a kids show in the first place. Because he was fucking everywhere and annoying as fuck to anyone over 6 years old and those people's parents. If he'd been confined to Nickelodeon or whatever and never appeared anywhere else, it'd have been tolerable. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: stray on November 27, 2009, 11:37:03 PM Bah. Fight Club is awesome, fuck the haters. Not a big fan of IKEA here. Or being 30.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: WindupAtheist on November 28, 2009, 12:55:26 AM If we're talking about horrifying children's shows, I have to mention Lazy Town. I saw it exactly one time and it was completely fucked up. I mean there's a kid with pink hair and a dude with a blimp, and whatever, I'm not paying that much attention. Then I notice that all the girl's friends are puppets, and she even refers to one of the puppets as her uncle.
Hmm. Abruptly the overly analytical part of my brain that leads to ten page threads about mechs and dumb shit like that perks up and says "Hey they can't be related, he's a puppet and she's a human being!" Then the other half of my brain goes "Dude he's not supposed to be a puppet in the context of the show. Big Bird was a guy in a costume but everyone just acted like he was a talking bird. Same thing, so quit thinking about this bullshit." Fair enough. I go back to not really paying attention as the show's badguy goes about... I dunno... trying to steal everyone's snacks or whatever he was doing. Only he doesn't really talk, he just sort of mutters. After being somehow thwarted by one of the puppet characters, he mutters "I hate those puppets!" FUCK. HE CAN SEE IT TOO. HOLY SHIT. FUCK. Suddenly I was filled with empathy for this poor man, the only sane man in an insane puppet-ruled hellworld, desperately lashing out at everything around him. There are only like three real people in the world, and two of them are completely out of their minds and treat the puppets like human beings. I'd do a lot worse than steal cookies in that guy's situation. I'd start slicing open puppets and pulling out their puppet guts and showing them to that little bitch while she screamed "Oh no look at all the blood!" and I'd be like "IT'S NOT BLOOD, IT'S FOAM YOU LITTLE SHIT! I WILL MAKE YOU SEEEEEEE!" Fuck your Barney. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ironwood on November 28, 2009, 01:09:06 AM Seriously, when you have a kid who watches Barney Non-Stop, you'll know the true horror of Barney.
Good post WUA. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Soln on November 28, 2009, 01:11:49 AM personally, I would be more interested to know what the LDS thinks of all this Twilight sexo stuff and how it's from one of their own.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: ghost on November 28, 2009, 08:08:38 AM Just throw the fucking TV out the door. Then you won't have to worry about Barney or any of that other shit disrupting your kid's development.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ironwood on November 28, 2009, 09:13:45 AM Yeah.
How many kids ? Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: waffel on November 28, 2009, 09:14:12 AM Please make the 4th movie.
http://chud.com/articles/articles/21684/1/THE-DEVIN039S-ADVOCATE-WHY-BREAKING-DAWN-MUST-BE-MADE-INTO-A-MOVIE/Page1.html Quote Even though New Moon has made a bazillion dollars and even though the third Twilight book, Eclipse, is already filming, Summit has declined to announce the fourth and final Twilight book as a movie. There's a good reason for this: Breaking Dawn is completely fucking insane, and it is probably totally unfilmable. But if they do film it... man, we are in for a treat. Breaking Dawn opens with Bella Swan, the lacteal heroine of the series, finally getting married to Edward Cullen, the mopey vampire hero. They go off to honeymoon on Isle Esme, a Brazilian island the Cullen clan owns (this is already ridiculous beyond belief. Imagine a vampire going snorkeling; it basically happens in this book), and Edward is afraid to fuck his new bride. The reason: he's super strong and she's just a human - Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex type of situation here. But Bella wears him down and Edward throws it in her - and knocks her the fuck out, leaving her badly bruised. :grin: Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Abagadro on November 28, 2009, 09:29:09 AM personally, I would be more interested to know what the LDS thinks of all this Twilight sexo stuff and how it's from one of their own. They eat it up. The theaters here in Utah had the highest per screen attendance in the nation opening weekend I believe. It's all okay because they get married, or something. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ratman_tf on November 28, 2009, 11:17:00 AM Please make the 4th movie. http://chud.com/articles/articles/21684/1/THE-DEVIN039S-ADVOCATE-WHY-BREAKING-DAWN-MUST-BE-MADE-INTO-A-MOVIE/Page1.html Quote Even though New Moon has made a bazillion dollars and even though the third Twilight book, Eclipse, is already filming, Summit has declined to announce the fourth and final Twilight book as a movie. There's a good reason for this: Breaking Dawn is completely fucking insane, and it is probably totally unfilmable. But if they do film it... man, we are in for a treat. Breaking Dawn opens with Bella Swan, the lacteal heroine of the series, finally getting married to Edward Cullen, the mopey vampire hero. They go off to honeymoon on Isle Esme, a Brazilian island the Cullen clan owns (this is already ridiculous beyond belief. Imagine a vampire going snorkeling; it basically happens in this book), and Edward is afraid to fuck his new bride. The reason: he's super strong and she's just a human - Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex type of situation here. But Bella wears him down and Edward throws it in her - and knocks her the fuck out, leaving her badly bruised. :grin: He can't just lay down and let her do all the work? Or is this some symbolism that I'm missing? :oh_i_see: Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 28, 2009, 11:38:26 AM Please make the 4th movie. http://chud.com/articles/articles/21684/1/THE-DEVIN039S-ADVOCATE-WHY-BREAKING-DAWN-MUST-BE-MADE-INTO-A-MOVIE/Page1.html Quote Even though New Moon has made a bazillion dollars and even though the third Twilight book, Eclipse, is already filming, Summit has declined to announce the fourth and final Twilight book as a movie. There's a good reason for this: Breaking Dawn is completely fucking insane, and it is probably totally unfilmable. But if they do film it... man, we are in for a treat. Breaking Dawn opens with Bella Swan, the lacteal heroine of the series, finally getting married to Edward Cullen, the mopey vampire hero. They go off to honeymoon on Isle Esme, a Brazilian island the Cullen clan owns (this is already ridiculous beyond belief. Imagine a vampire going snorkeling; it basically happens in this book), and Edward is afraid to fuck his new bride. The reason: he's super strong and she's just a human - Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex type of situation here. But Bella wears him down and Edward throws it in her - and knocks her the fuck out, leaving her badly bruised. :grin: He can't just lay down and let her do all the work? Or is this some symbolism that I'm missing? :oh_i_see: It was written by a mormon woman, she's lucky if she even knows the missionary position. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Sir T on November 28, 2009, 11:42:11 AM He can't just lay down and let her do all the work? Or is this some symbolism that I'm missing? :oh_i_see: Symbolism that involves him biting the pillow in half. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: ghost on November 28, 2009, 12:14:20 PM It was written by a mormon woman, she's lucky if she even knows the missionary position. I'm sure her father taught it to her. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Pennilenko on November 28, 2009, 02:13:53 PM It was written by a mormon woman, she's lucky if she even knows the missionary position. I'm sure her father taught it to her. :rimshot: Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Ratman_tf on November 30, 2009, 12:41:24 AM (http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/ratman/The_Real_Twilight_by_pippin1178.jpg)
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: lac on November 30, 2009, 02:32:21 AM Finaly! The youtube one minute re-enactment synopsis thingy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bXeQ7baYEE&feature=popular) you've been waiting for.
Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Mrbloodworth on November 30, 2009, 08:50:20 AM Finaly! The youtube one minute re-enactment synopsis thingy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bXeQ7baYEE&feature=popular) you've been waiting for. Awesome. Title: Re: Twilight: New Moon Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 30, 2009, 10:00:25 AM Finaly! The youtube one minute re-enactment synopsis thingy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bXeQ7baYEE&feature=popular) you've been waiting for. The dog got me pretty bad. |