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Title: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Evildrider on July 17, 2008, 10:29:50 AM http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/the-tech-observer/2008/07/17/ea-to-play-in-knights-of-the-old-republic
EA to Play in Knights of the Old Republic N. Evan Van Zelfden in Los Angeles warns, watch out World of Warcraft. In an interview at E3 this week, Electronic Arts chief executive John Riccitiello said that EA is working on the next version of Star Wars game Knights of the Old Republic, and it will most certainly have a massively multiplayer online component to it. "We've got two of the most compelling MMOs in the industry in development," said Riccitiello. The first title, based on the Warhammer property, will launch soon. "And the one that people are dying for us to talk to them about -- in partnership with Lucas, coming out of BioWare, which is, I think, quite possibly the most anticipated game, full stop, for the industry at the point when we get closer to telling you about it." Does Riccitiello mean the oft rumored Knights of the Old Republic Online? "Yes," he said. Moving into MMOs is an essential component for any gaming company, and it's a big part of the reason Vivendi merged with Activision, for that company's World of Warcraft MMO. Riccitiello told Portfolio.com that he was interested in owning World of Warcraft, and that he did discuss it, but it wasn't in the cards. "Because [Vivendi] couldn't afford control of EA, and I wasn't giving it up." But EA is firmly on that path now, with a KOTOR MMO, which would sidestep the consoles owned by Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. "Increasingly, people are going to be talking about direct-to-customer in our business," said Riccitiello. "I think we'll be talking about it louder than most." Today, two-thirds of the game industry is console systems and dedicated handhelds. "We expect in 2011 for it to be fifty-percent," Riccitiello said. MMOs will also be useful as a way to expand into foreign territories. "China's a growth market for us," he said. "We're launching some mid-session games on a micro-transaction model." In May of last year, the company announced an equity investment in a leading Chinese online game operator, The9, Ltd. "And there's a bunch more coming that we haven't announced. " The company has stated that M&A is part of the strategy, and EA is looking for core game companies "only when they bring great [intellectual property] and great teams," he said. The company is also interested in businesses that "help us build our platform in the area of Asia, online, and direct-to-consumer." "One is strategic and new, one is core and profitable -- and we're looking at both," explained Riccitiello. Future games aside, Riccitiello is most proud of EA's revenues, its console-business growth, and what's currently on display to the army of reviewers and game journalists in Los Angeles this week. "We added almost a billion dollars to the revenue last year," he notes. "This year, we've told the street that we're going to add a billion to a billion-three." And console games are a market that's doing well. "It's grown 30 percent year-to-date," says Riccitiello. "All three of the consoles are way up. The PC business in terms of it's aggregate of subscriptions/micro-transactions is also way up. " But at the end of the day, it's about the games themselves. "I think, hands down, there's not a publisher or a platform that's got what we've got," he says. In his own life, he sees how EA's games are making an impact: "I've got twenty-two nephews and nieces. A couple years there, I couldn't buy everything I wanted for them at the holidays. I can do the entire holiday -- and capture my mother for the first time -- at the EA store. That's never been the case before." Sure looks like it! Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Evildrider on July 17, 2008, 10:30:12 AM Gah wrong forum! :ye_gods:
Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Lucas on July 17, 2008, 10:32:07 AM Fap?
Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Falconeer on July 17, 2008, 10:34:06 AM you want to be a AoC boy so bad, don't you? :pedobear:
Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Evildrider on July 17, 2008, 10:38:33 AM you want to be a AoC boy so bad, don't you? :pedobear: :uhrr: Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Falconeer on July 17, 2008, 10:40:51 AM Well, don't dream it. Be it! :heart:
Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: lesion on July 17, 2008, 10:46:04 AM Wrong forum layover...and we've arrived.
Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Evildrider on July 17, 2008, 10:47:46 AM Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: slog on July 17, 2008, 10:53:02 AM While it would be cool, It's hard to imaging anything involving LucasArts, EA, and Massive online game being successfull. LucasArts puts out garbage for the most part and EA is so clueless when it comes to MMOS that they took the EA out of EA Mythic.
Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 17, 2008, 11:06:48 AM There are many sentiences and statements in that that confuse me. Such as the "sidestepping" comment followed up by the "console and handheld" comment.
Reads to me like the KOTOR MMO by bioware will be on handhelds. Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Nevermore on July 17, 2008, 11:07:57 AM But EA is firmly on that path now, with a KOTOR MMO, which would sidestep the consoles owned by Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. "Increasingly, people are going to be talking about direct-to-customer in our business," said Riccitiello. "I think we'll be talking about it louder than most." Today, two-thirds of the game industry is console systems and dedicated handhelds. "We expect in 2011 for it to be fifty-percent," Riccitiello said. Wait. They're expecting PC Gaming to increase at a faster rate than console gaming? Huh. :headscratch: Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: slog on July 17, 2008, 11:09:51 AM Is this the same EA guy that didn't know they had a MMO already?
Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 17, 2008, 11:10:06 AM But EA is firmly on that path now, with a KOTOR MMO, which would sidestep the consoles owned by Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. "Increasingly, people are going to be talking about direct-to-customer in our business," said Riccitiello. "I think we'll be talking about it louder than most." Today, two-thirds of the game industry is console systems and dedicated handhelds. "We expect in 2011 for it to be fifty-percent," Riccitiello said. Wait. They're expecting PC Gaming to increase at a faster rate than console gaming? Huh. :headscratch: Like i said, on reading that again. They are not going to put it on consoles (sidestepping), but expect the market for consoles and handhelds to be 50% in 2011. :headscratch: Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Murgos on July 17, 2008, 11:20:12 AM I like the 'direct-to-customer' buzzword. This means, fuck you Best-buys and Gamestops, we're selling straight to the kiddies and taking all da monies!!!
They aren't going to be so happy when they find out direct-to-customer doesn't necessarily mean 'stop-at-publisher-on-the-way-to-Go'. Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Ingmar on July 17, 2008, 11:21:50 AM While it would be cool, It's hard to imaging anything involving LucasArts, EA, and Massive online game being successfull. LucasArts puts out garbage for the most part and EA is so clueless when it comes to MMOS that they took the EA out of EA Mythic. LucasArts isn't doing the actual development though, Bioware is. Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: slog on July 17, 2008, 11:29:54 AM While it would be cool, It's hard to imaging anything involving LucasArts, EA, and Massive online game being successfull. LucasArts puts out garbage for the most part and EA is so clueless when it comes to MMOS that they took the EA out of EA Mythic. LucasArts isn't doing the actual development though, Bioware is. They will still mess it up, just like SWG Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Evildrider on July 17, 2008, 11:37:40 AM While it would be cool, It's hard to imaging anything involving LucasArts, EA, and Massive online game being successfull. LucasArts puts out garbage for the most part and EA is so clueless when it comes to MMOS that they took the EA out of EA Mythic. LucasArts isn't doing the actual development though, Bioware is. Only if they were as stupid as SOE and gave Lucasarts as much control as they had for SWG. They will still mess it up, just like SWG Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Nevermore on July 17, 2008, 11:40:53 AM But EA is firmly on that path now, with a KOTOR MMO, which would sidestep the consoles owned by Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. "Increasingly, people are going to be talking about direct-to-customer in our business," said Riccitiello. "I think we'll be talking about it louder than most." Today, two-thirds of the game industry is console systems and dedicated handhelds. "We expect in 2011 for it to be fifty-percent," Riccitiello said. Wait. They're expecting PC Gaming to increase at a faster rate than console gaming? Huh. :headscratch: Like i said, on reading that again. They are not going to put it on consoles (sidestepping), but expect the market for consoles and handhelds to be 50% in 2011. :headscratch: But that's down from the 66% of the game industry that they say consoles and handhelds have now. Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: TripleDES on July 17, 2008, 11:41:30 AM Aren't already too much ex-SWG developers/designers at Bioware Austin? We'll be getting the same old NGE shit, I suppose.
Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: El Gallo on July 17, 2008, 11:57:58 AM They will still mess it up, just like SWG I missed the LucasArts memo demanding that SWG be "SimBeru with HAM, the kids will love it." Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: HaemishM on July 17, 2008, 12:10:26 PM This will be a trainwreck worth watching! :drill:
Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: eldaec on July 17, 2008, 12:13:25 PM An interesting sentence fragment:
Quote it will most certainly have a massively multiplayer online component to it. I'm trying imagine what a massively multiplayer online component might mean, but it sounds like seperate MMOC and single player sections. There are a lot of problems I can see in trying to build such a product without at least one of the components being shit. Anyway, if only someone had some kind of metering device for the amount of awesome in this product... Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: SnakeCharmer on July 17, 2008, 12:42:40 PM I still wouldn't bet the farm it's a KOTOR MMO.
No official press release from either BioWare or Lucas Arts means they can always say "The reporter wrote and printed something out of context. We aren't ready to announce what it is yet." It's been a while since anyone at BW or LA has mentioned anything about their MMOs/projects, so it was time. It's just a carrot to generate some interest - even if it's not KOTOR/SW ROBOT JESUS. Somehow I don't think they're going to announce to the most rabid, obsessive, frothing nerds in the world that their train is coming home through portfolio.com. Anyway, IF it is a new KOTOR game, I'm willing to bet it's console (how much would MS pay to have it 360 exclusive?) with really stout online co-op play. Figure a mix of Mass Effect character customization, with the sandboxyness of both ME and GTA IV. Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: Montague on July 17, 2008, 12:48:54 PM I'm hoping the "will have a massively multiplayer online component" is more the reporter's idiocy than a Riccitello quote.
Makes it sound like a "hai gusy weer teh MMO 2!" failure. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: NiX on July 17, 2008, 02:28:49 PM So, at no point is there anything official announced from EA's mouth? Great. My roomie just argued that Bioware can't do wrong and they've only made good RPGs. :uhrr:
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Fordel on July 17, 2008, 02:35:50 PM Take Mass Effect, add Light Sabers and Droid BeepBoopNRROONG noises.
You have KoToR Online. Don't ask me why I Camel notate KoToR so badly, I can't explain it myself. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Ingmar on July 17, 2008, 02:38:42 PM So, at no point is there anything official announced from EA's mouth? Great. My roomie just argued that Bioware can't do wrong and they've only made good RPGs. :uhrr: Which one in particular are you thinking of that wasn't any good? The only thing that leaps to mind for me was the single player campaign from NWN... Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: DraconianOne on July 17, 2008, 03:11:23 PM Jade Empire wasn't all that.
Quote "I've got twenty-two nephews and nieces." Which is so pointedly a way of saying "I don't have any kids of my own so no direct experience of what it's like having children" and also begs the question who the hell the target market is anyway. Or something. I don't know. I'm drunk and in charge of a computer. Anything could happen. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Soln on July 17, 2008, 03:44:59 PM What can one say?
Bring on the Nerd Fury! :awesome_for_real: edit: I'm gonna start. First page. (http://lonestartimes.com/images/2006/09/jedi%20squirrels.jpg) Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Fordel on July 17, 2008, 04:19:09 PM I love those squirrels so much. :heart:
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Triforcer on July 17, 2008, 04:57:21 PM A SW MMO- it can't go wrong with that IP!!
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: NiX on July 17, 2008, 05:13:18 PM Which one in particular are you thinking of that wasn't any good? The only thing that leaps to mind for me was the single player campaign from NWN... NWN and Jade. Keep in mind their stable of great RPGs isn't that large and the top of their list is mostly Bioware + BIS. Not to mention the fact that it'll probably just be Bioware Austin, who had nothing to do with ME or the other RPGs original Bioware released outside of 1 person they've named. Also, looking at Biowares site, they have the MMO and this Lucas/Bioware thing seperated on their games list. It's actually under Next Gen Game. :drill: Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: UnSub on July 17, 2008, 05:52:50 PM A SW MMO- it can't go wrong with that IP!! If they launch with both stars and wars implemented, they'll be on the right track. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Murgos on July 17, 2008, 06:07:33 PM A SW MMO- it can't go wrong with that IP!! If they launch with both stars and wars implemented, they'll be on the right track. That's asking an awful lot. Would you settle for cloudy skies and a mild feud? Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: UnSub on July 17, 2008, 06:11:04 PM A SW MMO- it can't go wrong with that IP!! If they launch with both stars and wars implemented, they'll be on the right track. That's asking an awful lot. Would you settle for cloudy skies and a mild feud? Can I use a spaceship to fly amongst the cloudy skies? Title: Re: KOTRO MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on July 17, 2008, 06:40:27 PM FAP!
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Lantyssa on July 17, 2008, 07:19:08 PM Take Mass Effect, add Light Sabers and Droid BeepBoopNRROONG noises. Can we add Jedi Knight 2 to the mix as well?Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Comstar on July 17, 2008, 07:29:20 PM After all the stories about the bugs and loony tunes Wile E Coyote disaster that was SWG, I'll have to play this game.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Evildrider on July 17, 2008, 08:15:15 PM Take Mass Effect, add Light Sabers and Droid BeepBoopNRROONG noises. Can we add Jedi Knight 2 to the mix as well?JK2 is probably one of my favorite games ever. I miss doing clan tournaments in that. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on July 17, 2008, 08:32:23 PM You can question how well KOTOR would translate into an MMO, and really it's not as if anyone expects turn-based D20 combat in KOTORO anyway, but I can tell you one good thing the Bioware name says about this project. Namely, that it'll be developed with at least some idea in mind of what people want from a Star Wars RPG.
It won't be an inane virtual-world economic game with Wookie hairdressers and pikemen and fucking UO-style tamers running around. It won't be some kind of horrible space sim about asteroid mining. It won't be a tiresome "Gee, who needs Jedi anyway?" pseudo-shooter where everyone plays a generic trooper. You won't have to grind your dick off for six months to get a lightsaber and then put up with permadeath. It'll be all about pew-pew and lazer-swords and hackneyed black-and-white morality systems. Just like, you know, Star Wars. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: stu on July 17, 2008, 08:48:58 PM Will it have smuggler missions?
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Fordel on July 17, 2008, 10:25:19 PM While JK2 is awesome, I fear it may be too much for a MMO combat wise to handle properly.
Who knows though, now is the time to dream, so our dreams may be crushed later via reality! Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: AngryGumball on July 17, 2008, 10:42:08 PM You can question how well KOTOR would translate into an MMO, and really it's not as if anyone expects turn-based D20 combat in KOTORO anyway, but I can tell you one good thing the Bioware name says about this project. Namely, that it'll be developed with at least some idea in mind of what people want from a Star Wars RPG. It won't be an inane virtual-world economic game with Wookie hairdressers and pikemen and fucking UO-style tamers running around. It won't be some kind of horrible space sim about asteroid mining. It won't be a tiresome "Gee, who needs Jedi anyway?" pseudo-shooter where everyone plays a generic trooper. You won't have to grind your dick off for six months to get a lightsaber and then put up with permadeath. It'll be all about pew-pew and lazer-swords and hackneyed black-and-white morality systems. Just like, you know, Star Wars. wow you just said a whole lot of stupid attacking the failure based on the future of which you know nothing. I award you gain +2 in cheap shot artist. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: UnSub on July 18, 2008, 01:18:38 AM You can question how well KOTOR would translate into an MMO, and really it's not as if anyone expects turn-based D20 combat in KOTORO anyway, but I can tell you one good thing the Bioware name says about this project. Namely, that it'll be developed with at least some idea in mind of what people want from a Star Wars RPG. It won't be an inane virtual-world economic game with Wookie hairdressers and pikemen and fucking UO-style tamers running around. It won't be some kind of horrible space sim about asteroid mining. It won't be a tiresome "Gee, who needs Jedi anyway?" pseudo-shooter where everyone plays a generic trooper. You won't have to grind your dick off for six months to get a lightsaber and then put up with permadeath. It'll be all about pew-pew and lazer-swords and hackneyed black-and-white morality systems. Just like, you know, Star Wars. wow you just said a whole lot of stupid attacking the failure based on the future of which you know nothing. I award you gain +2 in cheap shot artist. ... and hello to the pre-NGE SWG fanbois out there! Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: DraconianOne on July 18, 2008, 02:00:36 AM I can tell you one good thing the Bioware name says about this project. Namely, that it'll be developed with at least some idea in mind of what people want from a Star Wars RPG. But they made KOTOR which, while a good game and had lightsabers and wookiees and sandpeople and elements that seemed to come from Star Wars, never actually felt like Star Wars to me. Where were the Stormtroopers? Where were the Star Destroyers, the TIE fighters, the Rebels, the X-Wings? It was like wanting an RPG set in WW2 but getting one that was set 300 years earlier during the Thirty Years War. I mean sure you've got a war and yes it's got the Germans, the British, the French and most of Europe involved and yeah there were guns but it's not WW2 is it? No Americans, no tanks, no planes but it's kind of the same, isn't it. Isn't it? KOTOR even had swords because, obviously, they featured so prominently in all of the Star Wars films. Swords. Not lightsabers - swords. Pikes I recall seeing but swords? Can't think of a single scene featuring a sword. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Bunk on July 18, 2008, 05:40:49 AM Which is exactly why Knights is a better setting for the game. "Hey, it would make sense if these guys used swords. Oh, no swords ever appeared onscreen in the movies? Oh well, throw that idea out."
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on July 18, 2008, 05:58:14 AM Yeah, I guess they did abuse the crap out of the "sword that doesn't get sliced in two by a lightsaber" thing in order to give non-Jedi characters more equipment options than just pistol/rifle and an excuse to last more than 2 seconds once a Jedi closed to melee with them. I could even deal with all that in an MMO so long as the game had a proper pew-pew bent, pistol damage stacked with rifle damage, they made droids the combat pets instead of animals, and so forth.
But if it didn't feel like Star Wars to you because the spaceships and the armor on the baddies were different, well, that's your damage. To me it contained a lot more of the spirit of the original movies than any of those stupid endless "some new Imperial warlord comes back every two weeks, forcing Han and Luke to have adventures until they're 80 years old" novels and shit. Or any game that took the time to let you milk animals to get milk to bake a cake with. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 18, 2008, 07:07:30 AM I liked pre-NGE SWG. :?
It needed work, but it never needed the NGE, hologrinds or doctor buffs. :? I would hope that this game, would incorporate some of the social aspects in the original SWG. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on July 18, 2008, 09:49:31 AM If I have to watch dancing to get healed, I won't fucking go near this game.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 18, 2008, 09:56:03 AM If I have to watch dancing to get healed, I won't fucking go near this game. I also liked that mechanic too. Cantinas were great. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Triforcer on July 18, 2008, 10:06:23 AM If I have to watch dancing to get healed, I won't fucking go near this game. I also liked that mechanic too. Cantinas were great. Your opinions are bad, and you should feel bad. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Sky on July 18, 2008, 10:15:50 AM Since the EA + Lucasarts = bad anything has been covered, and I've already done my week's allotment of ranting about Bioware's recent releases...
I'll just say that the quote in the OP is exactly what is wrong with gaming from a consumer standpoint. Fucking capitalist pigdogs. Why do we need more mmo? What was the last one worth a shit, gameplay-wise? I think our economy is going into the shitter because so many people are sitting around raiding stupid shit for fucking drops. Therefor, raiding and by extension mmo, is a terrorist activity and should be rooted out and destroyed. Why do you hate America? I think the bit about console/handheld dropping from 66% to 50% is about some magical rise in mmo subs, especially in motherfucking china. Because there's nothing I enjoy hearing more from a massive pc game developer than they are focusing on motherfucking china. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 18, 2008, 10:19:11 AM If I have to watch dancing to get healed, I won't fucking go near this game. I also liked that mechanic too. Cantinas were great. Your opinions are bad, and you should feel bad. No. It created a reason to goto the city's, even player city's. I could understand if you were mostly combat oriented as this being a bad thing, to a point, but the social game play that emerged from it was awesome. Besides, it i was doing like, at least 4 other things during that time anyway... so it was never a large soul crushing time sink as some make it out to be. To each his own. But i have never seen the amount of social interaction that created in any other game. It broke the barrier of "playing alone together" IMO, and helped to create a world, instead of a single player game where you never had to interact with others for more than 6 seconds, online. Nothing like coming back to town, after a long journey in the desert. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: eldaec on July 18, 2008, 10:23:16 AM console/handheld dropping from 66% to 50% OMG console gaming is dead! I always wanted to say that. In other news... Vader involved in canteen incident (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muaAZE0M3LU) Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on July 18, 2008, 10:42:09 AM SWG was a shittastic fucking failure even before the NGE and if BioWare knows anything, they'll go out of their way to make it as distant from SWG as possible. Period.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 18, 2008, 10:43:32 AM SWG was a shittastic fucking failure even before the NGE and if BioWare knows anything, they'll go out of their way to make it as distant from SWG as possible. Period. I disagree. It had problems, but they were overreacted to (See: NGE). Don't you play UO, like...a lot? Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on July 18, 2008, 10:47:05 AM Star Wars is not Ultima. At all. Treating it as if it were was a horrible mistake. And whatever you agree or disagree with, the game was something of a flop.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Sir T on July 18, 2008, 10:49:32 AM SWG was a shittastic fucking failure even before the NGE and if BioWare knows anything, they'll go out of their way to make it as distant from SWG as possible. Period. If they have any sense they will make it as far away from KOTOR as they can as well. Otherwise it will be a facinating journey into the deep dark chasing after Reven and the Exile, killing Tiny Sith, Minor sith, minor green sith, Minor blue sith, average sith, average blue sith... Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 18, 2008, 10:51:22 AM Star Wars is not Ultima. At all. Treating it as if it were was a horrible mistake. And whatever you agree or disagree with, the game was something of a flop. Not to the people who enjoyed it, and would still be there if not more, if they had simpley taken more measured steps to fix/add things. Anyway, trying really hard not to let this turn into a SWG-PreCU debate. I think we did this already. Only thing i wanted to say was, i really hope that some of the social aspects of SWG preCU are considered, and adopted for this new one. instead of just another gamey-game. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Ingmar on July 18, 2008, 10:51:42 AM SWG was a shittastic fucking failure even before the NGE and if BioWare knows anything, they'll go out of their way to make it as distant from SWG as possible. Period. But tell us how you really feel. :awesome_for_real: That said, I agree. SWG wasn't Star Wars. If anything it was more Star Wars *after* the NGE. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 18, 2008, 10:53:37 AM If anything it was more Star Wars *after* the NGE. I just logged in last night (14 day free, and a friend who just cant let go), and can tell you right now. Your dead wrong about that. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: IainC on July 18, 2008, 10:57:46 AM The hardest thing about making a Star Wars MMO should be organising enough trucks to take all your money to the bank every day.
That and making it not suck of course. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 18, 2008, 11:25:56 AM The hardest thing about making a Star Wars MMO should be organising enough trucks to take all your money to the bank every day. That and making it not suck of course. I'm not sure star wars as a franchise is as popular as geeks seem to think it is. Granted it's one of the most widely recognized ones out there but honestly each year that goes by is another year original trilogy fans stop playing games and those the watched the phantom abortion grow in number. That younger crowd knows star wars, they've watched all the movies as well but their introduction to it is as a whole and their reaction to it is simply 'meh'. SWG should have had a million people buying the box if the brand was so strong, even if there was a steaming pile of shit inside(hint: there was) at least initial sales would have been better but they weren't. Conan, the brand was immensely popular for a couple reasons, first the IP hasn't been tainted and people have only minimal expectations based on movies(most having not read comics) however what they did expect was fun, cutting heads off and sleeping with chicks in chainmail. What they got is besides the point but the brand was strong. Now back to star wars. not only do you have the initial trilogy dilluting mass audiences but you also have SWG diluting the MMO crowd as well. Not to mention that if/when it is released people will be playing WAR and WOTLK respectively I'm sure, not to mention any other hard hitting games that come between now and then. I cannot see KOTOR being the blockbuster it could have been a few years ago, the brand is simply weakened. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 18, 2008, 11:31:46 AM I'm not sure star wars as a franchise is as popular as geeks seem to think it is. Tell that to my friends 6 year old. Star wars is no longer only the movies, there are so many crossovers, its not funny. Starwars is still extremely popular. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Cyrrex on July 18, 2008, 11:40:09 AM My three year old LOVES SW, and has never been anywhere near the movies or even cartoons.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Lantyssa on July 18, 2008, 11:48:47 AM That said, I agree. SWG wasn't Star Wars. If anything it was more Star Wars *after* the NGE. Hahahaha. No. It's one giant Marketing ploy and nothing more. They think sticking a lightsaber in someone's hand makes it Star Wars.It wouldn't know the feel of Star Wars if it was bit by a womp rat. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Ingmar on July 18, 2008, 11:50:25 AM That said, I agree. SWG wasn't Star Wars. If anything it was more Star Wars *after* the NGE. Hahahaha. No. It's one giant Marketing ploy and nothing more. They think sticking a lightsaber in someone's hand makes it Star Wars.It wouldn't know the feel of Star Wars if it was bit by a womp rat. More than the zero Star Wars feel it had before the NGE doesn't have to be very much. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Bunk on July 18, 2008, 01:11:37 PM If I have to watch dancing to get healed, I won't fucking go near this game. I also liked that mechanic too. Cantinas were great. Sure, for the first three weeks, before they all became overrun with bots spamming "pLEASE TIP MEE!!" while they danced. The idea to have Master rank in a Social skill be required for Jedi advancement was absolutely retarded, and they should have known the botting would happen. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: TripleDES on July 18, 2008, 01:12:26 PM It needed work, but it never needed the NGE, hologrinds or doctor buffs. :? What the fuck? When we went on missions in the middle of nowhere, we were getting doctor buffed like +4000 on all HAM bars. Pre-NGE.Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Orba on July 18, 2008, 02:05:55 PM No comment from Lucas Arts or Bioware so far, looks like EA have jumped the gun a bit. I doubt if they will say anything at least until they have the tradmark sorted.
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=77514507 Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Fabricated on July 18, 2008, 04:01:01 PM I saw "WATCH OUT WORLD OF WARCRAFT" and immediately lost interest.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: SnakeCharmer on July 18, 2008, 05:19:13 PM Interesting first post.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Count Nerfedalot on July 18, 2008, 07:21:57 PM Will it have smuggler missions? yes, but only Imperials will be able to successfully complete them :drill: Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Falwell on July 18, 2008, 08:40:12 PM Somebody wake up Stormwaltz just so he can come in and tell us he still doesn't know / can't talk about anything regarding this.
Otherwise, good shit. Oh and going straight out of the gate with full digital download for an MMO? At least somebody is trying to catch up with the times. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 18, 2008, 08:44:34 PM If I have to watch dancing to get healed, I won't fucking go near this game. I also liked that mechanic too. Cantinas were great. Sure, for the first three weeks, before they all became overrun with bots spamming "pLEASE TIP MEE!!" while they danced. The idea to have Master rank in a Social skill be required for Jedi advancement was absolutely retarded, and they should have known the botting would happen. Yes, i said it never needed hologrinds. The path to jedi system was bad. It needed work, but it never needed the NGE, hologrinds or doctor buffs. :? What the fuck? When we went on missions in the middle of nowhere, we were getting doctor buffed like +4000 on all HAM bars. Pre-NGE.It an unordered list. :oh_i_see: Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Venkman on July 19, 2008, 05:24:35 AM I'm not sure star wars as a franchise is as popular as geeks seem to think it is. It's about timing. Between Ep3 and now there hasn't been a lot of big activity (mostly product/IP placement in other realms). But consider the potential timing of this game against the upcoming movie (this year- Clone Wars) and TV show (2010- between Ep4 and 5). Often, just those alone move boxes, even set in a different timeline. No idea how many boxes SWG ever sold, but KOTOR broke 1mil just on Xbox alone. And personally, the whole pre-NGE frothing swgem vapor breather has been played out. That is a market probably even smaller than the DAoC RvR fan. KOTOR just for the Xbox itself sold more units probably than both SWG and DAoC combine. And that's the other angle I don't see anyone talking about anywhere: SW + Bioware + EA: will this just/even be a PC MMO? Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Count Nerfedalot on July 19, 2008, 06:51:01 AM It's about timing. Between Ep3 and now there hasn't been a lot of big activity (mostly product/IP placement in other realms). But consider the potential timing of this game against the upcoming movie (this year- Clone Wars) and TV show (2010- between Ep4 and 5). Often, just those alone move boxes, even set in a different timeline. No idea how many boxes SWG ever sold, but KOTOR broke 1mil just on Xbox alone. Timing is overrated compared to most other factors, especially quality/fun/polish. Look how much timing did for the NGE (Ep3 release), HG:L (Halloween special stuff), etc. About the only timing that really seems to matter is to avoid releasing anything within +/- 3 months of something new from Blizzard. Otherwise, ignore the rest of the world and release it when its done, not before. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: TripleDES on July 19, 2008, 07:26:08 AM It an unordered list. :oh_i_see: What were we talking about again, exactly?Or maybe, since there apparently seems to be a lot of developer cross-section, they picked up the old code and are working on THAT! :uhrr: Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on July 19, 2008, 07:51:18 AM Joking aside, we'll what we see. I got all excited for SWG back in the day as well, but I had smelled the stink and wandered away even before beta. I don't need a WoW killer, just something fun and Star Warsy and playable to waste time with.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: DraconianOne on July 19, 2008, 12:16:05 PM Joking aside, we'll what we see. I got all excited for SWG back in the day as well, but I had smelled the stink and wandered away even before beta. I don't need a WoW killer, just something fun and Star Warsy and playable to waste time with. You know this might suprise you as much as it surprises me but I'm in total agreement with everything you said. Apart from that first sentence because I don't actually know what it means. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Venkman on July 19, 2008, 01:33:38 PM Quote from: Count Nerfedalot wrote Timing is overrated compared to most other factors, especially quality/fun/polish. Look how much timing did for the NGE My response was specifically to Lakov's question about the relevance of Star Wars these days. Right now there's a lull. But by the time KOTOR MMO launches, well, you read it above :-)It does not supplant quality/fun of course. But timing is often used to initiate a project at all, because it's part of business projections. Just launching a good game is enough for smalle companies. But you need more than that to unlock the funds at bigger companies. Timing helps that. As does the right team with the right management with the right IP with the right game system with the right... there is no single factor that completely replaces all others. This industry wouldn't be as big as it is if it just relied on "fun". Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Count Nerfedalot on July 19, 2008, 04:37:47 PM Quote from: Count Nerfedalot wrote Timing is overrated compared to most other factors, especially quality/fun/polish. Look how much timing did for the NGE My response was specifically to Lakov's question about the relevance of Star Wars these days. Right now there's a lull. But by the time KOTOR MMO launches, well, you read it above :-)It does not supplant quality/fun of course. But timing is often used to initiate a project at all, because it's part of business projections. Just launching a good game is enough for smalle companies. But you need more than that to unlock the funds at bigger companies. Timing helps that. As does the right team with the right management with the right IP with the right game system with the right... there is no single factor that completely replaces all others. This industry wouldn't be as big as it is if it just relied on "fun". Now that there is competition in the market, first impressions for MMOGs really are the key. So much so that I think the idea of tying the release of a subscription-based game to an immovable single-point-in-time event like a movie release or Halloween or whatnot is downright stupid. And given the current sorry state of project management in the game industry, doing so is pretty much a guarantee of yet another epic fail (witness EQ2, TR, HG:L, even AoC, etc, etc). Look how fast an unready game tanks, thus losing those subscriptions, losing the momentum. losing the buzz, losing the good will of the most eager fans, and losing any chance of making a good first impression. Take EQ2. Most pundits claim it did poorly on release due to coming out at the same time as WoW. This is only a fraction of the truth. It did so poorly, especially in comparison to WoW, because it was seriously lacking in quality, fun and polish, ESPECIALLY in comparison to WoW. If WoW hadn't come out till later, EQ2 probably would have done about 50-100% better at launch. But it STILL would have been an underachiever, and STILL would have suffered horrible losses whenever WoW did come out. There is also a good chance that it would have completely lost its ability to make the comeback it did. I suspect that far fewer people would have been willing to go back and give EQ2 a second chance once they'd gotten their act together and fixed things up if they'd already wasted the time, money, and emotional energy on getting suckered in and disappointed at launch, than were willing to do so after skipping the whole EQ2 launch scene for WoW, playing that till they tired of it, then wandering off and giving EQ2 a much later chance to make a good first impression. But beside all that, my original point was that the difference between the best and the worst timing in the world won't have nearly as much impact on the success of a release as the difference between the degree or lack of quality, fun or polish. The suits, marketing dweebs, and bean counters are constantly ignoring that fact. But it still remains a fact, and they ignore it to their own financial loss. Sure, good timing will help, but not nearly as much as rushing something out the door before it's ready will hurt. (quickie edit for clarity since I Hit the Post instead of Preview button) Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: UnSub on July 19, 2008, 06:35:02 PM The suits, marketing dweebs, and bean counters are constantly ignoring that fact. In defence of the suits and bean counters, they've given the devs $20m+ to get the game done and the devs said it could be done for that amount of money. At some point, the money runs out. (Vanguard) In defence of the marketing dweebs, they rely on the devs to tell them when they can start talking about the game and bringing it to people's attention. If there are huge delays, it is hardly marketing's fault. (Auto Assault) It isn't always the poor defenceless devs being forced to dance to someone else's tune. They are complicit in what happens with their game. There are lots of reasons for being complicit, but if you say "Yes" to a request you know is unreasonable, you are still at fault when things end up going badly. (SWG) The biggest problem is (and ironically appears to have happened here with KOTORO) is that games are being talked about way too early in their development cycle. Until a MMO is very close to its feature and content targets and being beta'd, things like release date and in-game systems probably shouldn't be discussed outside of the devs. It's no fun for us - we'd love to know what Lum is working on, for instance - but it makes more sense than the constant missed release dates / announced system changes / launch that doesn't include promised systems etc that dog the industry. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 19, 2008, 08:15:36 PM Look how 'done' Diablo three was from the moment we heard about it. No one even knew there would BE a diablo three and what it seems we got was a game well into it's alpha now THAT is how it's supposed to be done.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: SnakeCharmer on July 19, 2008, 09:56:00 PM Look how 'done' Diablo three was from the moment we heard about it. No one even knew there would BE a diablo three and what it seems we got was a game well into it's alpha now THAT is how it's supposed to be done. Sure. It's easy to do that when the company that's developing said game is rolling in so much cash they issue hundred dollar bills for employees to wipe their ass with. There's not another developer out there that can do that. Not SOE, not BioWare/EA. It's especially more difficult if you're relying on outside funding. Those nice VC's that are going to give you millions of dollars to develop your game are going to want more than a presentation on why YOUR game is uber and will rule them all. They want website hit numbers, message boards, etc to show there is interest in it, and that it's a wise investment. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Ghambit on July 19, 2008, 10:05:29 PM Look how 'done' Diablo three was from the moment we heard about it. No one even knew there would BE a diablo three and what it seems we got was a game well into it's alpha now THAT is how it's supposed to be done. Last I heard the "mystery game" was playable a LOONG time ago. I remember an interview with Bono where he said he'd played the game and loved it. Now, we're assuming here that the mystery game was indeed KOTORO... but I think it's a pretty safe assumption. Now, I must run off and find the article where they said it was playable. (it might be as long as a year ago) edit: it might not have been Bono but someone else from his group... (still no luck finding the article) Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: schild on July 19, 2008, 10:10:06 PM According to gamasutra, they were hiring a lead combat designer very recently. Also the we need a cluebat emote to use on people who say bioware without austin attached to the end. Its a distinction worth making. Everyone here should know its an entirely different studio and I really shouldn't have to be the one to say it evertime a thread pops up. Bioware Austin has a Lot to prove, so does Bioware but for different reasons.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: SnakeCharmer on July 19, 2008, 10:42:51 PM @Ghambit: I remember the article. It was Gordon Walton, Rich Vogel, and some other guy if I remember right. It was one of the last interviews they gave about the game.
Anyway, for whatever it's worth, I've been of the opinion that whatever BWA (how's that?) is working on since 2005 (I think?) is not the Star Wars IP MMO. Would seem to me that the gamasutra job posting (it was posted on Ubiq's website in a round about way as well - they were looking for two combat designers, actually) is for the BWA/LA partnership. Whatever the game is that BWA / LA formed a partnership in Oct 2007 may very well be KOTOR Online; whether it's cross platform SPRPG with a heavy co-op component or whatever. Keep in mind, they are still and always have been listed as seperate entities on the BW's website. I find it hard to believe that an erroneous In Development listing would go by near a year without someone fixing it. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on July 20, 2008, 12:38:12 AM Yeah, but you basically don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Last I heard you were blabbing about how you didn't think there would be a KOTOR MMO at all, because of that exact same website entry, with Schild all but hitting you over the head going "WINK WINK I KNOW SOMETHING YOU DO NOT" the whole time.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: ahoythematey on July 20, 2008, 01:40:35 AM MMO fans and Star Wars fans are both very used to having wet dumps dropped into their mouths, but for some odd reason I don't think the potential playerbase for a KotoR MMO is going to be so accepting of the two combined. Maybe they aren't into Ménage à trois...
If this is all true I can't wait for the show to begin. It's been awhile since we've had a three-ring circus in town. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Venkman on July 20, 2008, 03:36:38 AM If it's KOTOR, then most of the raging fanboi crap doesn't apply. The most reverant psychotics only come out when it has to do with the timeline between Ep 4 and 6, whether canon or expanded universe. Nothing else has been discussed nor even defined to that degree, either because the EU stuff hasn't expanded it or because nobody cares.
Quote from: Count Nerfedalot Now that there is competition in the market, first impressions for MMOGs really are the key. "Now"? There's been real competition for quite some time. This genre has never been an easy one in which to launch a new title. Most players don't consume MMOs the same way they do any other genre because of the style of game (which drives the subscription fee, not because of it). They're huge timesinks. I'd wager a very VERY small minority play multiple MMOs concurrently, unless the other # are free ones. MMOs are contraseasonal by nature, ensuring there's rarely a good or bad time to launch them. The only new variable really is that since four years ago, you don't want to launch concurrent to anything Blizzard is doing. NOW add IP to the mix. IP holders don't traditionally throw stuff out there when they feel like it. Why should they? If they've got an brand/license/theme with a high awareness, they're going to milk that for all its worth, doing the same things that made drove up that awareness in the first place. That requires forethought, mostly lining up with other events like advertising, PR stunts, convention support, TV spots in primetime series (with network support), retail promo strategies, etc. Just getting a random game box on a store shelf is comparatively easy. But that's not going to move those boxes to consumers to nearly the same degree. You need to first get those consumers aware, and then compelled to purchase. That's true of any game you hope to sell many units of. Just putting money into "making a good game" isn't going to game that game sold in the sort of numbers you need to have gotten the amount of money you needed to "make it good". Having a strong license makes this activity both easier and harder. Easier because, yes, the name itself can (and does) sell units. Harder because the reasons the name sells itself is because of the marketing allowed to be spent by the bean counters, who by the way also permitted the developers to put more money into the game. Yes, licenses take more royalty off the top. But they also can compel more spending in the first place. None of this replaces the need for fun, quality and all the usual stuff. And many feel the SW brand has suffered for the string of not-so-great video games that have come out in the last decade. But we're still expecting that from this genre anyway, marketing aside. On your examples, all except Hellgate are not a good comparison to KOTOR nor this discussion for different reasons: EQ2: Not a strong IP outside of EQ players. And the game did not appeal to contemporary nor former EQ players. They originally set out to make an EQ for everyone else, but then they invited their most hardcore players to help them design it (the $39.99/mo folks). TR: What exactly was this trying to line up to? It was an RG game, that's it. AoC: What exactly was this trying to line up to? It's a new MMO with an IP most people are only aware of by having passed by two Swarzenegger movies. HG:L makes sense though because it's marketing campaign and timing didn't gel with the longevitity of play that game needed. It was a good out-of-box experience, but not after the third or so week. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: eldaec on July 20, 2008, 05:49:51 AM If it's KOTOR, then most of the raging fanboi crap doesn't apply. The most reverant psychotics only come out when it has to do with the timeline between Ep 4 and 6, whether canon or expanded universe. Nothing else has been discussed nor even defined to that degree, either because the EU stuff hasn't expanded it or because nobody cares. I'd say the EU psychotics are more bothered about the timeline in the prehistory of the emo-sith and the post empire world of Solo babies and Luke's geriatric adventures. /shrug Anyway, in any time period, paying attention to the EU causes much bigger problems than ignoring it, because the EU is such utter shite that there is no earthly way that anyone could salvage anything of value from it. Happily EU fanatics can be left to rot, because there aren't enough of them for anyone to care. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: SnakeCharmer on July 20, 2008, 06:11:17 AM Yeah, but you basically don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Last I heard you were blabbing about how you didn't think there would be a KOTOR MMO at all, because of that exact same website entry, with Schild all but hitting you over the head going "WINK WINK I KNOW SOMETHING YOU DO NOT" the whole time. Here's the thing... Do you REALLY believe that the announcement to the world what their MMO is about is based on is going to be to a third rate stock website; to some unknown reporter? Because we all know reporters (game journalists or otherwise) have never made up or embellished a news story. It may very well be the worst kept secret in the world. Hell, let's just say it's the next Star Wars MMO, nevermind the backdrop. I'm just not going to go fullout fanboy until BWA/LA announces it. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Sir T on July 20, 2008, 06:38:00 AM One factor as well is that Lucas always (queitly) said that that its not the Movie tickets that make your money, its the toys and other crap that are sold outside of the movies. All the licensed crap, basically. Thats what more or less happened with the first 3 films. The thing is that for the last 3 movies he was banking on rolling in the cash with the licensed crap, and it was exactly the opposite. The movies brought in the crowds but the actual toys etc did not sell very much. People went to see the films becasue it was "star wars." but did not care enough to buy a Jar Jar Binks mug. (Personally I saw the first one and decided I wasn't going to bother with the other 2. Only seen bits of them to this day)
I think people are seriously misrepresenting the power of the star wars IP at this stage. Star wars worked because it captured something and expanded peoples imaginations. There are people working in industries that would not exist but for star wars, or at least would not be as big. The power of the IP now has been diluted by time. That and the last 3 films were pretty awful means that you simply cannot sell a game on star wars NOW unless its independently good. In short if noone wants to buy an Anakin Skywalker mug to take urine samples in, why are they going to bother forking out a monthly subscription? (Especially if the experiance is like living in a urine sample...) Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: eldaec on July 20, 2008, 08:04:32 AM you simply cannot sell a game on star wars NOW unless its independently good. I'm confused, are you suggesting that SWG, and all the endless SW console crap is/was independently good? Because they do/did sell. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Ratman_tf on July 20, 2008, 09:06:41 AM Sure. It's easy to do that when the company that's developing said game is rolling in so much cash they issue hundred dollar bills for employees to wipe their ass with. There's not another developer out there that can do that. Not SOE, not BioWare/EA. It's especially more difficult if you're relying on outside funding. Those nice VC's that are going to give you millions of dollars to develop your game are going to want more than a presentation on why YOUR game is uber and will rule them all. They want website hit numbers, message boards, etc to show there is interest in it, and that it's a wise investment. Some might think Blizzard sprung up out of the ground successful. :grin: Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on July 20, 2008, 10:21:05 AM Here's the thing... Do you REALLY believe that the announcement to the world what their MMO is about is based on is going to be to a third rate stock website; to some unknown reporter? Because we all know reporters (game journalists or otherwise) have never made up or embellished a news story. It may very well be the worst kept secret in the world. Hell, let's just say it's the next Star Wars MMO, nevermind the backdrop. I'm just not going to go fullout fanboy until BWA/LA announces it. WINK WINK I KNOW SOMETHING YOU DO NOT. And I've heard it now from two completely independant "in-the-know" sources. This really is the worst-kept secret in the industry. It's KOTORO. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: TripleDES on July 20, 2008, 11:11:32 AM Regarding the Star Wars IP, I think they've dropped the ball all in all. The time SWG was released, you know, when the movies were showing, that was the right time. In 2010? Fuck that.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: AngryGumball on July 20, 2008, 01:20:01 PM wow some people in here are worse than wow gen discussion people
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Sir T on July 20, 2008, 04:53:28 PM you simply cannot sell a game on star wars NOW unless its independently good. I'm confused, are you suggesting that SWG, and all the endless SW console crap is/was independently good? Because they do/did sell.I know a whole bunch that agree that previous to CU SWG was one of the best games ever. Dont knock it for the failure it became. And I know jack about the console SW games and care less. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Lantyssa on July 20, 2008, 06:17:18 PM I know a whole bunch that agree that previous to CU SWG was one of the best games ever. Dont knock it for the failure it became. hiOh, wait. Sorry. DIKU rules! Woooooooh! Gimmie that repetative level grinding soul crushing crap forevermore! YEAH BABY. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Sir T on July 20, 2008, 06:19:52 PM It sells doesn't it? :grin:
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: UnSub on July 20, 2008, 06:39:30 PM I know a whole bunch that agree that previous to CU SWG was one of the best games ever. Dont knock it for the failure it became. SWG was a failure before CU+NGE too. It just became a different kind of failure after those points. I wonder how SOE feels about KOTORO? Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Evildrider on July 20, 2008, 06:39:54 PM Regarding the Star Wars IP, I think they've dropped the ball all in all. The time SWG was released, you know, when the movies were showing, that was the right time. In 2010? Fuck that. Except for the new Clone Wars movie coming out in August and the new SW TV show coming right? Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: rk47 on July 20, 2008, 06:40:03 PM I know a whole bunch that agree that previous to CU SWG was one of the best games ever. Dont knock it for the failure it became. hiOh, wait. Sorry. DIKU rules! Woooooooh! Gimmie that repetative level grinding soul crushing crap forevermore! YEAH BABY. Ever played Lineage 2? Like grinding, don't wanna pay to play? Definitely give it a spin already. Are you fucking insane? Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: UnSub on July 20, 2008, 07:01:28 PM There's not another developer out there that can do that. Not SOE, not BioWare/EA. It's especially more difficult if you're relying on outside funding. Those nice VC's that are going to give you millions of dollars to develop your game are going to want more than a presentation on why YOUR game is uber and will rule them all. They want website hit numbers, message boards, etc to show there is interest in it, and that it's a wise investment. Fallen Earth LLC is doing it, mostly. They have talked about what the game will contain a bit (and have an official forum that shows Google Ads for WoW and Eve gold selling services :uhrr:) but in general they've kept quiet about how the game will play until they were mostly feature complete. They aren't perfect, but they've done a better job in getting things right before they talk about them than a lot of other companies. Cryptic appear to have announced ChampO 18 months prior to launch (although we'll see). Thus far their promotion has been light on in-game promises and heavy on dev profiles and lore. How you court the VCs is one thing. How you court the public is a different kettle of fish. Announcing features that you have to cut, talking up in-game systems that are half-finished or starting beta before the entire MMO is ready are things we have complained about for YEARS. The future rule of MMO promtion should be show, don't tell. WAR relied on video of that excitable Englishman telling everyone how awesome WAR was going to be, but the first in-game videos are pretty bland. While I think it is a better idea for Mythic to not ship 6 half-done cities if they can release 2 done right, they would have looked a lot better if they had never talked about 6 main cities in the first place. So, there you are: UnSub's 1st Rule of Marketing MMOs: show, don't tell. If a MMO takes 5 years to develop, don't start talking about what it will contain in year 1. Wait until year 5. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Jayce on July 20, 2008, 07:54:29 PM Why did the interviewee in the OP say that Vivendi "merged" with Activision because it wanted WoW? (btw, you don't "merge" with Vivendi, they buy you)
Was Activision ever a part of the picture or did he just also not know that Blizzard developed WoW? edit: OK, google gave me some background on this Activision thing. I guess he meant Activision wanted a piece of WoW? I can't really get a sense of why the merger happened, and now that I think on it, I don't give a shit. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Ingmar on July 21, 2008, 09:32:29 AM I know a whole bunch that agree that previous to CU SWG was one of the best games ever. Dont knock it for the failure it became. hiOh, wait. Sorry. DIKU rules! Woooooooh! Gimmie that repetative level grinding soul crushing crap forevermore! YEAH BABY. A grind without levels is somehow less soul crushing? Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Lantyssa on July 21, 2008, 11:46:18 AM I didn't grind. I futzed around, RP'd, tamed babies, and went exploring.
Why did you feel the need to grind? What end were you trying to win in a goalless game? Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Ingmar on July 21, 2008, 12:41:09 PM I didn't grind. I futzed around, RP'd, tamed babies, and went exploring. Why did you feel the need to grind? What end were you trying to win in a goalless game? The first time I logged in, I was doing the little tutorial thing so I took my wookie scout (I think he was a scout, it was sooooo long ago) to the terminal and started doing the tasks set out for me. First task, go kill some wildlife and get a pelt from it. Great, I can do this, go out, am a bit weirded out by the totally non-Star-Wars-y combat, but whatever, I can get used to that. Come back, turn it in, get some credits, some more tutorial crap to read. Second task... go kill *90* of the same damn things. That's like the *definition* of grind to me. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: cevik on July 21, 2008, 01:26:32 PM I didn't grind. I futzed around, RP'd, tamed babies, and went exploring. Why did you feel the need to grind? What end were you trying to win in a goalless game? Hologrind. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 21, 2008, 01:35:12 PM I didn't grind. I futzed around, RP'd, tamed babies, and went exploring. Why did you feel the need to grind? What end were you trying to win in a goalless game? Hologrind. One of the things the game never needed. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: cevik on July 21, 2008, 01:39:53 PM I didn't grind. I futzed around, RP'd, tamed babies, and went exploring. Why did you feel the need to grind? What end were you trying to win in a goalless game? Hologrind. One of the things the game never needed. So now it's "Pre-CU/NGE SWG is the BEST GAME EVAR (if you ignore all the parts that sucked!)"? Not to mention, getting master smuggler second my server sucked balls and was a serious grind. Mostly because after there was one master smuggler, why let some second rate scrub have a chance of fucking up your weapon when you could just wait for the Master Smuggler to log on and have a better chance for success. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 21, 2008, 01:45:05 PM I didn't grind. I futzed around, RP'd, tamed babies, and went exploring. Why did you feel the need to grind? What end were you trying to win in a goalless game? Hologrind. One of the things the game never needed. So now it's "Pre-CU/NGE SWG is the BEST GAME EVAR (if you ignore all the parts that sucked!)"? Not what i said. I always have said there were things that were bad, but did not require the NGE to fix. AKA: Knee jerk reactions. I think i already listed the things that i felt were a bad part of the game, in an unordered list, that someone tryed to correct my time line, that i didn't post, because it didn't matter. Also, i played before that system even hit. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: cevik on July 21, 2008, 02:33:12 PM Not what i said. You didn't, but others did: I know a whole bunch that agree that previous to CU SWG was one of the best games ever. Dont knock it for the failure it became. hiOh, wait. Sorry. DIKU rules! Woooooooh! Gimmie that repetative level grinding soul crushing crap forevermore! YEAH BABY. Fact of the matter is, Pre-CU/NGE SWG sucked and was grindy as hell. But of course I'll be told I didn't play it right. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Soln on July 21, 2008, 02:37:14 PM this caught my eye awhile back, only available now via Google cache since the company was bought out and no sign of the deal with the new parent:
Quote Engenuity's AI.implant to Power BioWare's Next Game Award-winning artificial intelligence middleware to bring new dimension to BioWare Corp.’s upcoming titles PDFSAN FRANCISCO – March 7, 2007 – Engenuity Technologies Inc. [“Engenuity” or the “Company”] [TSX: EGY], a global leader in providing artificial intelligence (AI) tools and middleware for games, animation and simulation, announced today that BioWare, one of the world’s most respected independent game developers, has selected AI.implant for a major upcoming title. AI.implant’s tight integration with Epic Games’ Unreal Engine 3 (UE3) game platform was a key factor in the selection. This allows game developers at BioWare to take advantage of enhanced AI tools directly within the UE3 development environment. Tools such as AI.implant’s unique Visual Brain Authoring enable fast, programmer-free creation of complex decision-making trees, while features such as Dynamic Path Refinement bring smooth, life-like motion to even the most complex game environments. “BioWare is known worldwide as a leader in character and story-based games. Our fans look to us to bring them superior immersive gaming experiences,” said Greg Zeschuk, president of BioWare Corp. “Innovative and powerful tools such as AI.implant help keep our titles on the forefront of next generation gaming. While we considered other technology options, AI.implant’s leading Unreal 3 integration, dynamic pathfinding and great support made it a very simple decision to make.” In addition to the first title, Canada-based BioWare Corp., developer of well-known titles such as Baldur’s GateTM, Jade Empire, Neverwinter NightsTM, and Star Wars®: Knights of the Old RepublicTM, has also purchased options to use AI.implant in future titles. “For a high profile game developer like BioWare to select AI.implant, is a testament to the depth and quality of our middleware solution,” said Dr. Paul Kruszewski, chief technology officer at Engenuity and founder of AI.implant. “From customer support to our aggressive development cycle, Engenuity’s commitment to the needs of high-end game development studios, like BioWare, makes AI.implant the premium AI tool.” For more information, please visit www.ai-implant.com. -30- About Engenuity Technologies Inc. Engenuity Technologies Inc. (TSX: EGY) is a global leader in visualization and simulation software solutions for the aerospace, defense, automotive, games and entertainment markets. The company’s products and services are currently used by more than 800 customers in 40 countries, including many of the world’s largest organizations. Engenuity was recently awarded the prestigious Frost & Sullivan Product Innovation Award (2006) in Distributed Mission Operations, and AI.implant was honored with the 2006 Game Developer Magazine Frontline award for Middleware. Engenuity has offices and distributors throughout North America, Europe, and Asia. www.engenuitytech.com About BioWare Corp. BioWare Corp. is an electronic entertainment company which develops computer, console, handheld and online video games focused on rich stories and memorable characters. Since 1995, BioWare has created some of the world’s best-selling titles including the award-winning Baldur’s Gate™ and Neverwinter Nights™ series, as well as the 2003 Game of the Year, Star Wars®: Knights of the Old Republic™. Original BioWare-created IP includes the 2005 RPG of the Year, Jade Empire™, with next generation titles Mass Effect™ and Dragon Age™ currently in development. With studios in Edmonton, Canada, and Austin, Texas, BioWare is always hard at work on innovative entertainment products including a new title for the Nintendo DS™ and a massively multiplayer online game. For more information on BioWare, visit www.bioware.com. All media inquiries can be directed to Matt Atwood at matwood@bioware.com. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Lantyssa on July 21, 2008, 06:05:56 PM Fact of the matter is, Pre-CU/NGE SWG sucked and was grindy as hell. But of course I'll be told I didn't play it right. You're the one who suggested the hologrind above as if it was a good thing. And ground out a smuggler.I. Didn't. Grind. I had fun. Not my problem if you played it like a DIKU and expected a better result than, well, a DIKU. So no, you weren't playing it right. At least if you wanted any hope of enjoying it. :-P That's not to say there weren't problems. When the five or so internal factions started to each trying to pull the game in their own direction without even agreeing on a path, the game became doomed. But that wasn't what was asked nor implied. If you want that, we've got two 100+ page threads to cover that ground, along with assorted other ones and an on-going ability to swamp threads about any other game. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: UnSub on July 21, 2008, 08:15:19 PM KOTORO: Enabling SWG threads since 2007.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Sky on July 22, 2008, 05:22:38 AM Do you motherfuckers have any idea how hard it is to find new Vader pics? KotORO better not suck.
(http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/01/darth-plays-guitar-hero.jpg) Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: TripleDES on July 22, 2008, 05:48:24 AM Except for the new Clone Wars movie coming out in August and the new SW TV show coming right? There's actually a movie coming it? When I saw the trailers here in Europe, I thought it'd be the same bundle-and-show-as-movie shit they've done with the Clone Wars minisodes. I doubt that the movie and TV show are going to have as much pull as the live action movies.Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: cevik on July 22, 2008, 06:04:01 AM Fact of the matter is, Pre-CU/NGE SWG sucked and was grindy as hell. But of course I'll be told I didn't play it right. You're the one who suggested the hologrind above as if it was a good thing. And ground out a smuggler.I. Didn't. Grind. I didn't suggest it was a good thing. I thought it was a stupid thing. You asked: I didn't grind. I futzed around, RP'd, tamed babies, and went exploring. Why did you feel the need to grind? What end were you trying to win in a goalless game? And I answered. There were plenty of reasons to grind and the game was just as grindy as another other "DIKU" like game out there. Just because it didn't have "levels" (well the levels weren't numbered at least), doesn't mean it wasn't grindy. Fuck there was a new word created specifically because of one of the grind in Pre-CU/Pre-NGE SWG. Great for you, you didn't grind. Just because you played the game wrong doesn't mean it didn't suck. If you'd pick up any "diku" and pretend it was a goalless game and ran around in newbieville never grinding out any levels you could have the same silly "social" experiences, but for some reason a game's grindiniess is somehow judged now on whether or not Lantyssa chooses to grind in it. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Sir T on July 22, 2008, 06:21:36 AM Do you motherfuckers have any idea how hard it is to find new Vader pics? KotORO better not suck. One word... "NOOOOOOOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOOOOoooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooO!" Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Lantyssa on July 22, 2008, 07:42:15 AM And I answered. There were plenty of reasons to grind and the game was just as grindy as another other "DIKU" like game out there. Just because it didn't have "levels" (well the levels weren't numbered at least), doesn't mean it wasn't grindy. Fuck there was a new word created specifically because of one of the grind in Pre-CU/Pre-NGE SWG. Okie, I did ask that and kinda lumped the reply and your second post together and mixed it with a healthy dose of being badly distracted. I'm sorry.Great for you, you didn't grind. Just because you played the game wrong doesn't mean it didn't suck. If you'd pick up any "diku" and pretend it was a goalless game and ran around in newbieville never grinding out any levels you could have the same silly "social" experiences, but for some reason a game's grindiniess is somehow judged now on whether or not Lantyssa chooses to grind in it. But no, I've found the social experiences couldn't be had in other games. There was a lack of support in the game tools, the devs, and the players along with my own social inadequacies where things just 'clicked' in this game. Sure there are little social RP enclaves, however the overall atmosphere was just different. And sandbox-yness is more than just the social aspects. That option simply isn't out there in any semi-decent playable form. Not to mention a skill system where I could pick and choose... Holocrons did add grind. It was a stupid thing to do, and was the beginning of a series of bad decisions. The sad thing? I ignored holocrons other than curiosity and trying to find a pattern in the system. I already knew what classes I was interested in mucking about with, and through a weird quirk discovered my hidden profession. I would have actually unlocked a jedi, just playing the game in my own little aimless way, like the idealist devs intended. But because everyone was grinding out jedi, they pushed the number of professions required up. How's that for being the anti-thesis of their own game design? Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 22, 2008, 07:44:51 AM I dont even think the original path to jedi had anything to do with professions and mastery, i believe that was an "we need to hurry up and put in jedi".
I also never grinded. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Jayce on July 22, 2008, 07:54:04 AM Aren't there other SWG threads for you guys to nerdrage on each other?
Let's talk about KOTORO. I am intrigued but I'm not sure it will translate. There will have to be some seriously talented designers around it. The idea of a Star Warsy world without being shackled to the canon has a lot of potential, but given that it's EA, I think that there is a huge risk they will actually just strangle the IP in its infancy. Or maybe starve is a better metaphor... Neglect? Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: cevik on July 22, 2008, 07:56:16 AM How's that for being the anti-thesis of their own game design? I don't think it was the anti-thesis of Raph's game design. I see nothing in the original design that indicates to me that it was intended to be anything but grindy. To And the combat professions were no different than any "diku" combat profession in any game. Well other than they lacked questing (unless you consider the terminals to be questing, which is pretty weak). So to Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Ghambit on July 22, 2008, 10:10:18 AM My hopes for KOTORO is a game that combines some of The Force: Unleashed, JTL, Bushido Blade (for Playstation), Enter the Matrix/MxO, and WW2O in a pure action/adventure dungeon-crawling, wing commander-esque extravaganza. All of this would take place while we get the microscopically detailed narrative of life as a budding Jedi to a Jedi Master, to a Jedi Ghost. Skills would be non-apparent and only realized/improved/maintained through monk-like disciplined practice. Also, the Sith MUST be a playable class and factionalized combat and RvR a reality. An AOO similar to WW2O or Darkfall would be nice for PvP... the sith and the jedi would battle it out for the galaxy in sky, sea, air, ground, and space.
As much as I love the Sandbox (as you all well know), it doesnt fit into the idea of KOTOR. Although I DO believe giving players simple choices goes a long way. Player housing being one of them. Custom starships, speeders, clothing, and weapons another. As simple and great as all this sounds though, we all know they'll give us shyt in comparison and the game will probably be a disappointment. Let us not forget how LucasArts operates these days. And EA is here with us also. The odds are not with us here fellas. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: cevik on July 22, 2008, 10:26:37 AM As simple and great as all this sounds though, we all know they'll give us shyt in comparison and the game will probably be a disappointment. Let us not forget how LucasArts operates these days. And EA is here with us also. The odds are not with us here fellas. The only hope I have is that before SWG was released conventional wisdom was that you could shit in a box and put the Star Wars label on it and it will hit 1 million+ subscribers easily. So SOE got Raph to shit in a box for them, they labeled it Star Wars and it flopped in a tremendous way. It was such a disappointment that they've now tried three different smelling loads of diarrhea (in both chunky and smooth varieties) in the same box to see if they can get anything to sell. So maybe, just maybe, they've decided the shit in a box business model isn't all it's cracked up to be and they're going to go a different path with KOTORO. I'm not going to hold my breath (unless I walk near any SWG boxes in the bargain bin!). Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Ghambit on July 22, 2008, 10:46:55 AM As simple and great as all this sounds though, we all know they'll give us shyt in comparison and the game will probably be a disappointment. Let us not forget how LucasArts operates these days. And EA is here with us also. The odds are not with us here fellas. The only hope I have is that before SWG was released conventional wisdom was that you could shit in a box and put the Star Wars label on it and it will hit 1 million+ subscribers easily. So SOE got Raph to shit in a box for them, they labeled it Star Wars and it flopped in a tremendous way. It was such a disappointment that they've now tried three different smelling loads of diarrhea (in both chunky and smooth varieties) in the same box to see if they can get anything to sell. So maybe, just maybe, they've decided the shit in a box business model isn't all it's cracked up to be and they're going to go a different path with KOTORO. I'm not going to hold my breath (unless I walk near any SWG boxes in the bargain bin!). I'd always thought SWG would've been fine if WoW hadnt come along. WoW stole subscribers along with brainwashing the folks at Sony to drink plenty of Castor Oil, thereby producing said buckets of diarrhea. Regardless, KOTORO's game design is most likely set in stone... so any "ooops, this is gonna suck" (which is likely) isnt going to be fixed in time for a viable release schedule. A lot of today's gaming mantras wont make it into the Alpha... so today's shit is literally yesterday's diarrhea (coagulated and extra smelly). Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Ratman_tf on July 22, 2008, 10:53:47 AM Not what i said. You didn't, but others did: I know a whole bunch that agree that previous to CU SWG was one of the best games ever. Dont knock it for the failure it became. hiOh, wait. Sorry. DIKU rules! Woooooooh! Gimmie that repetative level grinding soul crushing crap forevermore! YEAH BABY. Fact of the matter is, Pre-CU/NGE SWG sucked and was grindy as hell. But of course I'll be told I didn't play it right. It was the best sandbox since UO. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: cevik on July 22, 2008, 11:11:34 AM I'd always thought SWG would've been fine if WoW hadnt come along. WoW stole subscribers along with brainwashing the folks at Sony to drink plenty of Castor Oil, thereby producing said buckets of diarrhea. The diarrhea was in the original box. The game sucked as release and greatly underperformed it's expectations. The general rule of thumb around these parts before SWG was released was that it was easily going to top 1 million subscribers. But it doesn't matter what we said here, it matters that SOE and LA believed it was going to top 1 million subscribers. The game was released June of 2003, WoW was released in November of 2004. They had a year and a half to build a subscriber base before there was any competition from WoW. If I had come to whichever incarnation of these boards existed in 2002 and said "SWG will top out at 300,000 subscribers at it's all time peak" I would have been laughed off the board. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Margalis on July 22, 2008, 11:13:05 AM Raph's design for SWG was bad but I can't blame him. He was the wrong fit for that game. It's like getting the City of Lost Children guy to direct Alien 4, not a bad director just a bad fit. To me the blame with the execs who stuck the wrong guy on the wrong project and ended up with very predictable results.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: cevik on July 22, 2008, 11:15:37 AM It was the best sandbox since UO. We agree on this point, but when I say that sentence in my head it's probably much more insulting to the game than you intend it to be. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Gutboy Barrelhouse on July 22, 2008, 03:56:23 PM So everyone thinks the Bioware/LEC/EA "interactive product" will be an actual MMO more or less like any other MMO and not something radically different?
Not something that plays on consoles and your cell phone and your PC? Or something like a "Star Wars Hero" game with your own lightsaber and footpad so it would be like a "Star Wars Fit" game? Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: schild on July 22, 2008, 04:21:02 PM Quote So everyone thinks the Bioware/LEC/EA "interactive product" will be an actual MMO more or less like any other MMO and not something radically different? Not something that plays on consoles and your cell phone and your PC? Or something like a "Star Wars Hero" game with your own lightsaber and footpad so it would be like a "Star Wars Fit" game? 1. It's possible that they're making more than one title. Especially with Lucasarts farming EVERYTHING out these days. 2. Gordon Walton, Damion Schubert, Ashen Temper. Comeon. Yes, it'll be an MMOG more or less like every other MMOG. Of course, it's entirely possible they hired all of them to just confuse everyone, but it's unlikely. These are specific people with specific skills in a specific genre. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: eldaec on July 22, 2008, 04:22:57 PM So everyone thinks the Bioware/LEC/EA "interactive product" will be an actual MMO more or less like any other MMO and not something radically different? Not something that plays on consoles and your cell phone and your PC? Or something like a "Star Wars Hero" game with your own lightsaber and footpad so it would be like a "Star Wars Fit" game? Bioware Lucasarts Electronic Arts Now, what do you think is more likely? These companies may have many fine qualities, but innovation isn't one of them. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: rk47 on July 22, 2008, 05:59:24 PM WTB Midichlorians:Force Push
WTS E11 Blaster Rifle +2 'You must hunt down these Tusken Raiders till you find my missing moisture vaporator for my farming equipment!' Farmer Skywalker Reward: Tusken Stun Rod Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Simond on July 23, 2008, 03:39:09 AM WTB Midichlorians:Force Push And it'd still be a better game than SWG. :drill:WTS E11 Blaster Rifle +2 'You must hunt down these Tusken Raiders till you find my missing moisture vaporator for my farming equipment!' Farmer Skywalker Reward: Tusken Stun Rod Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Murgos on July 23, 2008, 04:03:38 AM Quote So everyone thinks the Bioware/LEC/EA "interactive product" will be an actual MMO more or less like any other MMO and not something radically different? Not something that plays on consoles and your cell phone and your PC? Or something like a "Star Wars Hero" game with your own lightsaber and footpad so it would be like a "Star Wars Fit" game? 1. It's possible that they're making more than one title. Especially with Lucasarts farming EVERYTHING out these days. 2. Gordon Walton, Damion Schubert, Ashen Temper. Comeon. Yes, it'll be an MMOG more or less like every other MMOG. Of course, it's entirely possible they hired all of them to just confuse everyone, but it's unlikely. These are specific people with specific skills in a specific genre. After the SWG debacle anyone even dreaming the phrase, 'radical design' would come in to work the next day to a box of their stuff and a pink slip. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Jayce on July 23, 2008, 07:55:10 AM Bioware Lucasarts Electronic Arts These companies may have many fine qualities,. Leaving aside Bioware, name one. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: UnSub on July 23, 2008, 08:08:34 AM Bioware Lucasarts Electronic Arts These companies may have many fine qualities,. Leaving aside Bioware, name one. Sheer market power. Also: getting people to buy their output, en masse, almost regardless of quality. But maybe I repeat myself. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: eldaec on July 23, 2008, 08:21:24 AM Bioware Lucasarts Electronic Arts These companies may have many fine qualities,. Leaving aside Bioware, name one. May have. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Ghambit on July 23, 2008, 09:42:37 AM I dont really understand what all the hype with Bioware is about. Sure, they have some arsty fartsy content in some of their games; but, what's truly "zomg" groundbreaking about their stuff?
Honestly, this next MMO (whatever it is) is their breakout game IMO - if they FUBAR it they'll be in the bargain bin and/or reliant on EA to bail them out. Public perception is the thing here. EA? well... uh... yeah (moving on) LucasArts is a big "?". What exactly is their capacity in this? If I had to guess it'd be simply creative management over the project and nothing else. It gives legitimacy to the design and takes a healthy chunk of licensing costs away by throwing their label on the box. Or does it cost more to put their label on the box? When you license a Star Wars IP does that mean you're basically licensing LucasArts? Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Ingmar on July 23, 2008, 09:50:33 AM I dont really understand what all the hype with Bioware is about. Sure, they have some arsty fartsy content in some of their games; but, what's truly "zomg" groundbreaking about their stuff? Honestly, this next MMO (whatever it is) is their breakout game IMO - if they FUBAR it they'll be in the bargain bin and/or reliant on EA to bail them out. Public perception is the thing here. EA? well... uh... yeah (moving on) LucasArts is a big "?". What exactly is their capacity in this? If I had to guess it'd be simply creative management over the project and nothing else. It gives legitimacy to the design and takes a healthy chunk of licensing costs away by throwing their label on the box. Or does it cost more to put their label on the box? When you license a Star Wars IP does that mean you're basically licensing LucasArts? They've basically defined the western RPG? That's pretty relevant I would think. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: cevik on July 23, 2008, 09:52:27 AM I dont really understand what all the hype with Bioware is about. Sure, they have some arsty fartsy content in some of their games; but, what's truly "zomg" groundbreaking about their stuff? Honestly, this next MMO (whatever it is) is their breakout game IMO - if they FUBAR it they'll be in the bargain bin and/or reliant on EA to bail them out. Public perception is the thing here. You should share your crack, it is unkind to bogart the stash. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: eldaec on July 23, 2008, 10:52:31 AM I dont really understand what all the hype with Bioware is about. Sure, they have some arsty fartsy content in some of their games; but, what's truly "zomg" groundbreaking about their stuff? Honestly, this next MMO (whatever it is) is their breakout game IMO - if they FUBAR it they'll be in the bargain bin and/or reliant on EA to bail them out. Public perception is the thing here. EA? well... uh... yeah (moving on) LucasArts is a big "?". What exactly is their capacity in this? If I had to guess it'd be simply creative management over the project and nothing else. It gives legitimacy to the design and takes a healthy chunk of licensing costs away by throwing their label on the box. Or does it cost more to put their label on the box? When you license a Star Wars IP does that mean you're basically licensing LucasArts? They've basically defined the western RPG? That's pretty relevant I would think. Ask most people what defines a western PC rpg and they'll either start talking about WoW, or if they are an old fucker they'll start talking about the Bard's Tale and Ultima. I'll grant you they pretty much defined the Baldur's Gate phase of the western rpg. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: NiX on July 23, 2008, 11:51:54 AM So, wait, have they officially announced it's KotOR yet?
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: eldaec on July 23, 2008, 12:28:04 PM No. But give them time, we're only on page 5.
It took 13 pages for Blizzard to formally admit to Diablo 3. But they'll break in the end, they always do. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Jayce on July 23, 2008, 12:35:07 PM The fact is that they've defined SOMETHING. Maybe you consider it a down phase in the history of the Western RPG, maybe you don't, but given the piles of crap out there, to make anything that's genre-defining even for a moment in time deserves recognition.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Lantyssa on July 23, 2008, 12:54:36 PM No. But give them time, we're only on page 5. We have to grind to even find out what game we're discussing?It took 13 pages for Blizzard to formally admit to Diablo 3. But they'll break in the end, they always do. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: cevik on July 23, 2008, 12:56:23 PM No. But give them time, we're only on page 5. We have to grind to even find out what game we're discussing?It took 13 pages for Blizzard to formally admit to Diablo 3. But they'll break in the end, they always do. No no, we are exploring our unique social sandbox until we reach Master Conversationalist. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WayAbvPar on July 23, 2008, 01:01:44 PM Is that a prereq for Master Debater?
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: cevik on July 23, 2008, 01:06:56 PM Is that a prereq for Master Debater? You must achieve Master rank in at least 8 of the forums here before you unlock your debater sensitive slot. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Soln on July 23, 2008, 01:20:53 PM Lest we Forget: 5 Year Anniversary of SWG (http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/players/content.vm?id=66963).
5 years sounds to me a good contractual limit in a license. SOE had 5 years of exclusivity maybe? Doubtful for the time it takes to make an MMO. But you never know. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on July 23, 2008, 09:21:40 PM We have to grind to even find out what game we're discussing? No no, we are exploring our unique social sandbox until we reach Master Conversationalist. :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: rk47 on July 24, 2008, 12:53:18 AM Bioware Lucasarts Electronic Arts These companies may have many fine qualities,. Leaving aside Bioware, name one. if one just concentrate on money pumping and the other advising the lore...while the smart one just makes a game...it could be a killer combo. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Sky on July 24, 2008, 06:31:51 AM You must achieve Master rank in at least 8 of the forums here before you unlock your debater sensitive slot. I think we have more than enough sensitive slots around here already.Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 24, 2008, 06:38:28 AM You must achieve Master rank in at least 8 of the forums here before you unlock your debater sensitive slot. I think we have more than enough sensitive slots around here already.LOL! Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: grunk on August 06, 2008, 06:34:04 PM I am going against the mob and saying the following:
It will fail, if the game is made especially for the PC. Sorry but the PC has had its many chances to get it right when it comes to mmos and simply, these development studios are made up mostly of engineers and not real game designers. As I log in for another … fun filled night of AoC something seems clear to me now. Sometimes, it’s good to have a limit in terms of what you can do from a tech side of things… forces the developers to maybe make a game that’s fun… and also works (AoC was fun). I loved the kotor games, I love mass effect… but if they release a kotor mmo that doesn’t use the skill based system they use in kotor (ie that DnD shit) I fucken quit at the beta login (not that I got into beta you fucken asshats) Oh and one last statement. Fuck PVP. For real, I get nothing from pwning you n00bs in an mmo, not a god damn thing. But dragging one of u fuckwads on to c/s or cod4 and hearing you scream and cry while my AK goes through your dome, shit is great… so fuck you. Give me a great PVE game over this bullshit, fake sense of accomplishment you RTARDS get from a PVP mmo… because you know what, no matter how hard you try, how many hours you log… when you go on ur xbox or a pc fps… your still gona have guys like me, with my ballz bouncing off your fucken far head. PEACE Grunk – 75 Dark Knight Remora Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: rk47 on August 07, 2008, 12:57:35 AM preach on brotha'
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Cyrrex on August 07, 2008, 04:22:07 AM I love how that post was largely coherant initially, only to devolve into some crazy rant.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: slog on August 07, 2008, 04:46:02 AM Oh and one last statement. Fuck PVP. For real, I get nothing from pwning you n00bs in an mmo, not a god damn thing. But dragging one of u fuckwads on to c/s or cod4 and hearing you scream and cry while my AK goes through your dome, shit is great… so fuck you. Give me a great PVE game over this bullshit, fake sense of accomplishment you RTARDS get from a PVP mmo… because you know what, no matter how hard you try, how many hours you log… when you go on ur xbox or a pc fps… your still gona have guys like me, with my ballz bouncing off your fucken far head. PEACE Grunk – 75 Dark Knight Remora I'm reminded of a scene in some movie where a serious scientist gives a serious talk on AIDS or something then puts on a tinfoil hat and starts talking about how the it's the muslim using their space-combulators that are causing the epidemic. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Nevermore on August 07, 2008, 06:05:42 AM It's like he suddenly remembered he's teh Grunk towards the end of the post.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Murgos on August 07, 2008, 08:36:03 AM It's like he suddenly remembered he's teh Grunk towards the end of the post. The beginning doesn't really make that much sense either, it's just less frothy. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Ghambit on August 07, 2008, 10:59:53 AM Wth is a Dark Knight Remora?
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Soln on August 07, 2008, 11:07:12 AM Wth is a Dark Knight Remora? (http://supermantv.net/wallpaperbattles/batmanbegins/batman.jpg) + (http://www.west.asu.edu/achristie/hsw4kids/animals/sharks/remora1.jpg) Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Morfiend on August 07, 2008, 11:26:31 AM (http://nullword.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/dkremora1.jpg)
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Brogarn on August 07, 2008, 11:45:37 AM Nicely played, Soln and Morfiend. The combo of your posts is hilarious.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Typhon on August 07, 2008, 05:54:50 PM I agree, that thar is some funny shit. Forced the wife to look at it. She snorted. hmph, chicks.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: grunk on August 07, 2008, 08:34:40 PM It's like he suddenly remembered he's teh Grunk towards the end of the post. The beginning doesn't really make that much sense either, it's just less frothy. As if, i could simply copy & paste bs comments. Indeed, to one day become a shit bird, like yourself. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WayAbvPar on August 08, 2008, 08:14:48 AM Where did you get a drool proof keyboard? I will need one when the kids are born.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Jayce on August 08, 2008, 10:02:57 AM Appears that this thread has been grunkified.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Cyrrex on August 08, 2008, 10:20:13 AM I only wish he posted more frequently. It'd be fun to troll him.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Rishathra on August 08, 2008, 11:24:02 AM That's a big part of his charm, though. You never know when your thread will be visited by the Grunkster. Both the anticipation and the shock of contact are hightened by his relative scarcity.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: TripleDES on August 08, 2008, 01:43:57 PM That's a big part of his charm, though. You never know when your thread will be visited by the Grunkster. Both the anticipation and the shock of contact are hightened by his relative scarcity. He's about as charming as having a horse cock up your ear is comfortable.Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Furiously on August 08, 2008, 01:47:44 PM This is the internet. Someone likes it.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: ahoythematey on August 08, 2008, 02:21:17 PM ...Sorry but the PC has had its many chances to get it right when it comes to mmos and simply, these development studios are made up mostly of engineers and not real game designers. Blizzard says hi. Also, love the pvp hate. I would agree that MMO's haven't really done pvp just right yet (speaking from personal experience, I've yet to play EVE), but I strongly disagree with not even bothering to try. If they fail, usually the failures are fantastic spectacles, and if one were to finally succeed at really making the fun and engaging PvP within a big gameworld, I'd have more than just counter-strike to make you cry bitter emo tears because your precious FF XI touched you in a bad place over and over. And over. By the way, of all the Halo/xbox kiddies I've seen post in the forums I frequent, you are probably my favorite. I bet you and your bouncing balls feel proud. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: DraconianOne on August 08, 2008, 02:35:02 PM (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3276/2745250050_719943d17e_o.jpg)
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on August 10, 2008, 11:54:32 AM Give me a great PVE game over this bullshit, fake sense of accomplishment... Pot, kettle, black. (http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/GrimDysart/sig4.jpg) Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Drugstore Space Cowboy on August 10, 2008, 01:01:30 PM Give me a great PVE game over this bullshit, fake sense of accomplishment... Pot, kettle, black. Quoted for making me laugh. And making me wish I had caught that. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Gutboy Barrelhouse on August 16, 2008, 07:56:33 PM Also from a guildy that is at SOE fan fair, Blixtev said that the Kotor Bioware/LEC/EA game is NOT a MMO, the closest thing to it would be what Diablo 2 is now (as far as online access). So you can do the story line solo or team up with some players to do it online as well.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on August 16, 2008, 10:45:57 PM Who the fuck is Blixtev, and why would anyone at SOE know shit about it?
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: schild on August 16, 2008, 10:50:21 PM Who the fuck is Blixtev, and why would anyone at SOE know shit about it? Without revealing anything I may or may not know, people at SOE are far more likely to know than say, you. Considering a lot of Bioware Austin IS ex-SOE.Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on August 16, 2008, 11:23:01 PM I AM OFFICIALLY DISPLEASED.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/GrimDysart/sig4-1.jpg) Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: schild on August 16, 2008, 11:34:49 PM I AM OFFICIALLY DISPLEASED. (http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/GrimDysart/sig4-1.jpg) Dude, look. You need to just not froth. Hope for the worst and be happy that you get better. Please. I don't want to hear you polishing your Star Wars dvd box set with your own tears. Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: WindupAtheist on August 17, 2008, 12:18:40 AM The all-Anakin nature of the meter should be a clue that I'm taking the piss outta my own reputation. I don't even own any Star Wars on DVD. I went to see all the prequels repeatedly with different people and had fun doing it, but I guarantee that probably 75% of the people around here have given George Lucas more money in games alone than I have altogether.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Lantyssa on August 17, 2008, 09:06:02 AM I dunno. A KotOR/Diablo cross with Privateer-like space twitch where I can play with my friends and has some random map generation sounds pretty fun to me. MMOs aren't the end-all be-all. A point I'm being well reminded of by playing Mass Effect.
Title: Re: KOTOR MMO Official!? Post by: Furiously on August 17, 2008, 02:24:50 PM I'd much rather see a lot more co-op playing type games then more MMO's.
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