f13.net

Can you guys talk about your classes a bit here. I am considering picking up the game for some thing to do, as I am hearing the final few patches really helped.

In beta the class imbalance was horribly bad, with solider classes and demonologist being vastly superior to the others, and assassin and barbarian being the bottom of the list.

How is everyone finding the classes at release?

I'm playin a Dark Templar (read SK) and a Ranger. So far, I'm enjoying the ranger more, due to the variety of combat. The DT is a bit more challenging anda bit more boring, but hey, its a tank, what did I expect.

I'm playing a Priest of Mitra, and I feel like a god among men.  I'm level 20 at the moment and use four damage spells when soloing, intermixed in a non-boring fashion (I have an AoE knockback that tends to line people up nicely for my cone of holy fire attack, for instance).  Plus I occasionally just smack people with a mallet.  And then, of course, there are heals.  So it's pretty fun, basically.  I wouldn't be surprised if they got nerfed, as like I said, I feel somewhat ridiculously powerful sometimes.

Been playing a Tempest of Set. Only 1 attack spell so far, at level 8 .. but my sword/whatever does pretty good damage. However, I die easy as pie. Anything with ranged damage tends to eat me alive. 2 or more bad guys in melee means I'll probably die unless I get lucky.

Certainly takes some strategy to pick your fights appropriately.

I am a Tempest of Set of 25th level and I easily destroy 2 level 27 mobs at the same time.

Assassin was at the bottom of the list?

Hur? How? Explain yourself!

Lets see. Crap damage and worst HP. Little no no avoidance. Borked Stealth during daytime.

Anyone playing a Barb? If so how are they doing now?

I gave up on my barbie.  It was awful.  I would just die die and die and die some more.  It deserves to be at the anus end of the spectrum.

I'm playing PoM, which isn't quite as bad now.  I think I'll make a fucking soldier.  I'm tired of being dead all the time.

I do have to say, as a rule of thumb. This is Conan, steel and arrows and fists are king.

Casters can do some really, REALLY sick things... But only if you let them.

Wasn't Conan a barbarian?  Shouldn't barbarians RULE?  Shouldn't they?  Huh?

I played a Barb in beta up to level 10, and I couldnt stand it any more. I could take 1, maybe 2 mobs my level. I switched to a Dark Templar, which was considered the most "gimped" of the soldier classes and I was destroying things with ease. Like 3, 4, 5 even 6 at a time once.

Priest of Mitra isn't feeling very good so far.  It isn't strong at fighting so soloing takes a while but that was to be expected.  What is surprising is how weak healing is so far.  There are a couple of HoTs and one direct heal at twenty but they're all rather pitiful.  I'm told it gets better later on though...  We also start getting some crowd control.

I don't know if I was doing something wrong in the open beta but I would get one or two shotted in the PvP minigames too.

None of my characters are much beyond level 10ish, so this is certainly not a in-depth analysis (trying to figure out what I want to play)

Tempest of Set - Controls the power of storm!!!  Storm!!!!!!  Decent but repetitive dps, gimp healing.  Is a crappy healer class :(  did I menion lightining powers?!
Dark Templar - decent dps if you don't fuck up your combos... don't fuck up your combos.  Decent tankage if you don't fuck up your combos... don't fuck up your combos
Herald of Xotli - good dps.  shape shifting powers don't last long enough, though the recharge isn't terrible (2mins).
Ranger - I didn't like the interface, if you like it, probably a decent class to play.  They definitely need something that puts a different hot bar up when you switch from bow to melee though
Bear Shaman - after you get the 2 handed weapon, very fun melee.  I three-shotted the demon boss on the way to the city (one of those shots was smash).  Seems like smash has a higher chance of triggering when wielding a 2-handed club, but maybe I was just lucky.  Smacking things around is amusing.  I didn't feel the same drawbacks from being a crappy healer class because I didn't play it high enough to have heals  :)
Demonologist - easy mode class for this level range - great range, great dps, almost everything is dead before it gets to you.  Others seem to indicate that it's very repetitive.  How can blasting things with the awesome power of lightining ever get old though?

I played most of the classes to 13ish in OB.

Right now I'm playing Guardian(at 22) and enjoying it very much. Here is the classes I spent most time in:

Guardian- Decent dps, a lot of different Combo starters, depending on whether you want to taunt your mob or not. Now that the 2 swing combos are opening up the dps is going up even more. Interestingly, the 1H + Shield is just as viable as the Polearm (our available 2H) for dps. Fun AoE knockbacks. Early Feats (talents) are very useful. Best of all...I can take lots of punishment. AoE grinding 3-4 mobs of equal level is doable. I almost never die. I haven't tanked for a group yet but look forward to it and with all the +aggro combos I have should be able to keep aggro. My only problem is I can't be a Stygian Guardian.

Tempest of Set Feels like a one trick pony with crappy survivability. HOT before pull, start casting your lightening nuke, and hope for no adds. Interestingly, the primary nuke is an AoE so you can sometimes blast a group of mobs in a couple of shots, if they are a couple levels lower. Also interestingly, you can use Polearms. I doubt I'll make it far with this toon.

Assassin From playing one, and even more from watching Schild play one, these guys are dps machines. I can see a nerf in their future, but wouldn't let that stop me from rolling one. Schild went from 20 to 27 in like 8 hours last night with one. They actually move pretty quickly in stealth, and can solo bosses and multiple pulls with ease. I hear that in PvP they are paper tigers, but in PvE they seem to kick ass. The ability to Stealth through quests is very fun, a nice change of gameplay.

Actually, he was just a thief.... Who knew how to swing axes.

[edit] BTW, we're not limited by races for the guild are we? Like... We don't have to be Stygian, right?

No, you can be anything in our guild.  Not an elf, though.  No elves.

What about half-elves? Or one-third-elves?

WE ARE ANTI-ELF. NO ELVES.

I've got a 38 assassin.  My dps isn't crap, but my hps are shitty and my armor is shitty.  Stealth is shitty during the day time too.

There are many things wrong with the class, but there are a few good things later on, theoretically.

Hm. I don't really have a problem with stealth during the daytime. And if assassins are that bad, I won't fear a nerf as my DPS has outperformed EVERYONE I've been grouped with.

Schild what build are you using?

Here's mine, though I have 6-7 points unused, waiting for 40.

http://feats.goonheim.com/assassin#t0a5b5d5e5h3k1l1t1t2

Stealth during the day, if you're solo, will get you noticed every time as you approach a target, unless it's so low it's not aggro anymore.

Our dps is sick though, PVP wise (I'm on a FFA server) we're very bad right now.  We have a knockback kick on a 2min cooldown (a feat), but no slows, roots or stuns.  We have another feet at 70 that feers/stuns someone though.

A lot of our feats are useless early on or down right broken.  Flesh Necrosis is dumb.  For each flesh rot you do 15-30 damage.  This is usually only good for longer fights I guess.

I don't use Poison stance. I use Unholy.

I'm actually trying to gimp myself: http://feats.goonheim.com/assassin#t0t1a5t2a5c3f1g2h3k1

But for soloability I've been rock solid. I just did one of the level 29 epic quests/group quests at 27 solo. Mostly sneaking. During the daytime.

I've gotten some really lucky drops though and my fatality chance is nearly at 10%.

Also, I have my sneak ability or whatever at 320/280 with my shit equipped. And skulk is at nearly 200. I get noticed a lot more if I stand still. If I walk by someone, I can generally get by anyone within 3 levels above me.

Well I can only speak for the Tempest of Set, and so far (just lev. 26) the class feels overpowered.

Who said you have to fear adds? More adds mean more XP faster! Bring 'em on!
Crappy survability? I don't know if it's me or my chosen feats and skills, but I need 3 or more on me, and higher level, to die.

Thing is you can't allow your ToS to NOT put points in the Lightning Strike feats from the get go, even if you plan to spec as a healer later on (which I am planning to do). At level 20 you should have it buffed up enough to deal some serious damage. Combine it with that power which drains your mana (very slightly) while further empowering the strike and you have a killer AOE weapon. Pump up the skills about mana recovering (and mana attractor) and you are almost unstoppable.

On the healing department, I can see why it could have problems as a main healer, but Heals Over Time are greatly underrated. They grow with you as you level up and if you time them right you can tear down almost ANY boss 1 vs. 1 without a scratch, including those higher level than you, without not even sweating if something not too nasty adds up. The AOE killer lightning does the trick. And when the shit hits the fan you still have the instant heal for like 300 HP which is half your life bar anyway. And then potions, as a last resort. Same if you are out of mana. Poof! Special green power fills your mana bar back! (recast is 30 minutes, and that feels right).

So far, which is roughly 1/3 of the whole Temepst of Set leveling arc, I'd say that the class is definitely solid. It can deal consistent damage and it can get much more serious if you want to spec it that way, thanks to a bunch of feats dedicated to your lightning guns. It can heal OK even if in a less obvious way, and again I am sure you can be a good healer if you want to follow that way feat-wise instead of pure AOE damage dealing.
Finally you can wear light armours, which is much better than cloth, and you can wield polearms, 1h swords and shields. You can even use bows, but those are unnecessary thanks to the range of your spells. Still a nice bonus.

1 trick pony? You have to rely on 1 big damage skill, that's for sure. But this class can hurt, heal, AOE root, single target mez, silence other casters, un-stun your party, melee and even summon a few pets later in the feat tree. I think is definitely a fun class with lots of things to do and made even more interesting by the interesting feat tree.

I know it's too soon to judge it as a whole, but so far it is definitely a powerful and fun to play class.


EDIT: The hardest time for a ToS is between level 8 and 12 I think. The volcano mission can be nasty. Right after that it starts raining powers.

Interesting, I havn't found gear that would get my hide above that.  My gear selection has been ass other that the quest rewards.

Oh, also. I have about 5-10% hate reduction. Also, 90% sure that the hide skill is divded by 10 to get the level you can sneak past. That being daylight or night time. Improves at nighttime. Which is to say, I can sneak past up to level 31-32. Maybe it's a little different. But I'm having no issues. I'm only doing orange and red quests at this point.

Where are you getting this gear?  Random drops?  I havn't seen much quest gear over the few pieces I have that is +hide, -hate

Random drops from bosses when I'm soloing quests. I have uhmmm 4 or 5 piece of blue gear right now, a few green, and then the white stuff. The white stuff sucks. Both of my daggers have fatality chance on it. All of my main gear (head, shoes, shoulder, chest, bracelet, and a ring) have hide increases.

Thanks for the write up.

I liked the idea of my ToS but had been unhappy with it so far. This has encouraged me to push on through to the mid levels.

I rarely find cloth gear thats actually not white.  Oh well.  I guess I'm very unlucky.  My gear is very slow in getting updated.

Given the number of things I've killed and the number of rare drops I've gotten, I'd say the loot system is still shitty. I've just gotten lucky with the VERY few drops I've gotten I guess.

Even though I haven't played, I'm underwhelmed by the class selection.. And the races (freaking Hyrkanians can't come soon enough). I'm going to try Conqueror maybe though. Anyone playing that?

I've gotten blues from quests only, have you gotten blue drops?  I usually ignore all looted armor since I havn't seen anything good yet.

19th level dual sword barb, don't feel gimped at all.  Can take down three to four equal level mobs if I get sneak off on one of them.  Just keep rolling with the combos.  I am not on a PvP server though, so no idea how gimped I would be in that water.

I like the idea of the Barb, so if I end up getting the game I might try one again, I had heard that they upped their hitpoints and their avoidance big time, and it made them more fun.

I also like the idea of the Dark Templar, I just dont want to get stuck tanking.

There is a merchant by the docks in Tortage that sells blue chestpieces and various green weapons and armor for cheap. Level 10 stuff though.

Err... I got a green lvl 50 weapon (I think?!), and it was only in the intro, killing those picts. Is that normal?

This game feels like dungeon seige a little... with a wow interface. It runs like fuck, even windowed.

Anyways, I'm playing a PoM at the moment. I one and two shot everything. Strange.

Yeah, so I think I figured out the bizarre level requirements thing.  When it says "requires level 50" it means that for YOU it requires level 50.  So a dagger might give your priest of mitra a level 50 requirement, because that's when a priest of mitra learns the dagger skill.  But that same weapon will appear to have no requirement for an assassin.

I'm not 100% on this, but I'm pretty sure that's what's going on.

You nailed it. Figured that out about an hour ago. >_>

(http://nocturne.us/uploads/Weapons.jpg)

My new weapons!  Badass.

Yea, I decided to go poison instead of unholy and I'm killing a lot faster now. Where did you get those from?

Lotus tree is great.  Take vile poisons over rot.

Those are off the 2nd to last boss in Sanctum of the Souls in the wildlands.   level 38-40 dungeon.

He drops two of them? Or I have to run it twice?

I'm doing flesh rot AND vile. I mean, why not.

I don't know if it's just due to my computer running so shitty, but I like range better in this game. Right now, my only range class is priest of mistra. Not the most ideal caster of course... But even so, I kill faster with him than my conqueror. I might just roll a full blown caster or ranger later...

Also playing herald of xotli. It's a little bugged -- everytime I get out of demon form, my character is bald. Also, the fire effects from some of my spells occassionally linger on me until I log off or zone out.

As for the class, I'm still a noob, but the demon form rocks. Otherwise, it's a very squishy class for melee. You get some close range dot spells and stuff like that, but they're pretty slow to cast. The conqueror can tear through shit in half the time.

Like with all classes, the trick is to go in and out of combat. Don't just stand there like in other games. Keep moving. Step back when in a grouped and take a breath (in combat healing is NOT pointless in this game, and you will recover rather fast). The demon form is really about a lot of damage quickly, then get the hell out.

Not saying you didn't know, or are not doing this, just trying to give tips.


Random thoughts: I fear a lot of people (i know first hand) are approaching this game like other MMO's and suffering for it. I sat and watched a friends GF play last night, she grew up on wow (as far as MMO "career") and she would die very very quickly, because she had been so indoctrinated to "stand and spam" gameplay.

Movement, position, and situational awareness matter with all the classes.

EDIT: oh, and potions. Use'em, love'em.

I tried Conqueror very fun class but a little too squishy for my tastes so I went back to Guardian, in my heart I love tanking and wearing big bulky armor and beating my enemies with my shield.  So hopefully I get some sweet shield bashing in soon enough!

The knock arounds on that class are really fun in PvP. Really fun.

Oh, I'm not dying too much...Yet. It's just that in comparison with Conqueror, he's nothing. And as a caster, even my priest would kick his ass.  :grin:

As for knockarounds, the PoM gets a cool AoE one.

I'm not playing this like an mmo (hell, I try not to even play mmo's like mmo's).... It's got (kind of) an action rpg feel to it. I made a comparison to dungeon seige (or diablo or titan quest) yesterday. It feels more like that than WoW (although the interface is totally stripped from WoW).

Guardians have AOE knockdowns with both 1H/Shield AND Polearms (forgot what level you get them, you'll have them both by 20).

Since you can switch weapons in combat, you can run in with Polearm, knockdown, AOE them while they are on the ground, switch to 1H/Shield when they get up, knock them down again, then finish them off.

All attacks seem to be cone-area-of-effect based, so even with 1 hand attacks you can hit 2+ mobs at the same time depending on where you are facing when you swing. I use mouselook to face directly between 2 mobs (sticky camera during combat keeps forcing me to look at targeted mob) this way ensuring I usually hit both mobs with each swing.

You can click off auto target select in the options.

Auto target is nice, I think your thinking of Autoface target, which can also be turned off.

Yeah that's what I meant.

I need some help from the higher level guys.

I cant decide what class to play, and its driving me insane. Right now its a toss up between Dark Templar, Barbarian and HoX.

I played a Barb in beta, and had fun with him even though they where gimped. They are now fixed, but almost to strong I hear, and probably have a nerf incoming. Plus I dont really like the look of the light armor they get from the few pictures I saw, but I did want to use a h2.

The Dark Templar is cool with all the life taps and stuff, but I hear they are really bad in PVP, and I want to do some PVP. But I love the look of the class, and the "evil" feel.

As for the HoX, it has the 2h weapon that I like, and the evil feel of the DT, I just dont know much about the class as to if it would fit my play style.

Can anyone give me any input on these 3 classes.

One of the things I learned while playing SWG .. it doesn't really matter *what* class you play, they are all nerfed or overpowered at random intervals throughout the game's life. Just pick something you enjoy and hope that class doesn't get nerfed or gets buffed as the case may be.

I think I'm just going to reroll my Conq to Barb (again). Fug it if they're going to get nerfed. Probably won't happen any time soon.. I'm sure Funcom has more to worry about right now.

[edit] I'm still a noob HoX, but basically, it's a cloth wearing 2 hand (preferably) fighter with dots. While fighting minions, you'll be going down on health just a little more than the average melee class. When you encounter bosses and their groups, you get into demon mode for insane 25 sec burst damage.

So far, I'm not really liking it myself. The demon mode is cool, but rest of the spellls feel like a chore when playing melee. I know this game is all about hybrids, but I want to minimize hybridization as much as possible (for that reason, I'lll probably be moving from Conq to Barb too).

Fuck. That right there might sell me. I dream of a game with no lock on targeting.

Some attacks, VERY FEW, have one target, like a crossbow/arrow attack (duh?). But swinging your sword will hit everything in that swing range. Also, I've fatalitied more than one person at once, gutting 2 people in a row in one move, etc.

We ran it twice.  Mostly the same loot drops each time.

I tested out flesh rot.  With a stack of 5 debuffs, and grim corruption and the feat being 5/5 I was doing 31 damage a tick (yawn).

:grin:

:heart:

What is the HP scale like in this game? How long does a face to face melee fight last in PvE against equal level mob? Fuckity fuck fuck I didn't want to buy this.

Assassins are still gimp in pvp.  I couldn't out dps a Bear Shaman's HOTs last night.  It made me very sad.

Are you familiar with WOW?  We 3-man the first group dungeon twice in about 2.5 hours.   PVE is fast and fun.  It's soooo good.  I'm turning into a fanboy real quick, but it actually feels like youre in the game due to the fact you control everything your character does.

Conq (lvl 7 now): Hmmm. Could be a cool class, I haven't logged him in since I found you could distribute skill points (LOL I know I fail). Pretty fun, but hard to tell how he will turn out this early on.

Tempest of Set (level 13): I'm good with my root and scoot tactics but I get overpowered semi easily by a 2-3 mobs. I have learned to sprint my ass off out of fights, cause I'm pretty much paper (as to be expected). I'm guessing when I get a touch more CC I'll be pretty sick, but I'm just not sure yet. Doesn't feel OP. The healing is pretty weak...but as long as you have time to prep the HoT before a tougher fight, it helps a bit. The other heal I have is pretty sub par. My guess is once I get a lot specced into Lightning I'm going to be an AoE death machine.

I like the fact that I can use a polearm on my ToS. Those things can lay some decent hurt. Sword and shield can help for tougher fights as well.

 :pedobear: Shaman is fun so far. I'm not totally over the top overpowered like a lot of the caster classes seem to be, it has similarities to a eq1 shaman except with melee instead of doting. at 19 I have a group hot that is activated on my next attack, 15 second cd. A cone HoT that lasts 30 seconds(I have a feat that gives this one a direct heal at the end if I'm attacking something when I cast it) and a group direct heal that puts a weakened soul type effect on anyone healed by it. For attacks I have a bleed effect, 2 knock back effects, a few generic combo attacks. I also have a taunt ability, that says I should be able to tank in a limited fashion. Of the 3 buffs I have one Increases hp the other two have damage reduction effects with a procs that can further reduce damage.

Hah,  Pedo Shaman made me laugh.

Is there an allakhazam/thottbot/wowhead/uostratics-type place I can go to see spells, skills, feats, classes etc in some detail? I need to plot out my joyless number-crunching while I am downloading this uberpatch. It's my biggest joy in any game.

http://www.wikiaoc.com/The-Age-of-Conan-Wiki

Best we have so far. The catasses haven't got around to parsing combat logs yet so no detailed info yet.

BUT WHAT IF MY STAT ALLOCATION MEANS I DO 3% FEWER DPS!!!??! /cut /cut

Thanks :)

Conqueror's rule.  Me and the wife are putzing around in White Sands and we get overwhelmed by like 6 gorillas. She's a Priest of Mitra, I'm a Conqueror. I try to keep her alive but a couple of gorillas smack her down. I pop a potion and try to take down as many as I can when she goes "woah". All of a sudden she's back up and healing me.

Turns out Conquerors have a passive ability called Furious Inspiration that acts as a passive heal or rez on a proc chance. That was just 100% pure Colombian awesome.

Quoting this to update on my ToS experience:
I am 37 now and the Tempest of Set feels more OP with every new batch of spell upgrades I get. When I thought I was a powerhouse, I got a new uberpowerful trick. Maybe it's me, used to crappy classes in other games, but the ToS keeps giving me plenty of satisfaction as I can mow through waves and adds of mobs 3 levels higher than me with no problem (and lots of XP). Surprise: right now (but I guess that will change back somwhere in the future with more feat points spent on it), I am not even using lighting strike anymore, and I still rule over the masses. Great, powerful and fun class.

That's good to know, I've been struggling with my level 11-12 ToS .. however, I did just get my first stun which helps a ton! (Lightning strike, stun, lightning strike, fast lightning strike before they even get to me, sometimes).

Edit: Struggling is the wrong word. I don't mind dying and having to apply tactics to win fights - it just seemed like any two guys with big sticks could pummel me pretty good unless I had *every* heal spell I had on me, and sometimes a potion too. There are places where attacking them from a distance to get that first alpha strike in is hard to do.. and once you have aggro, getting away is hard!

Tip of the day: Don't forget this game has an active block, and a shift key for run.

Viin, my bread and butter with ToS vrs. 2 mobs is as follows:

Lightning Strike
Charged Blast

Then mobs are up in your face...

Quicksand - Back up

Lightning Strike
Charged Blast

MELEEEEEEEE

Mix in stun if needed , but same thing...back up!! Sneak the Hot in before fights if ya can, or during after the stun and normal heal.

The hardest time for my ToS was between lev. 8 and 13 I'd say. Then it starts going downhill.
Maybe the feats matter a lot, I placed my first 10 - 20 points in mana regen (Ether Flow), then Improved Lightning Strike. Then again, applied the feat which empowers your Life of Set (Faithful of Set) when you use Lightning Strike. So basically you get a better HOT and a better nuke. So big nuke, HOT, small nuke, big nuke... rinse repeat until level 35.

If things get harder then throw in the small HOT too, (long casting time, sadly) maybe after having mezzed (which is instant) at least one one the mob to minimize incoming damage during the cast. Vitalizing Jolt (instant heal for 400) is another friend (can't remember when you get it).

Finally, I spent all my skill points to max out Mana Regen, Mana Attractors and Casting Concentration. I wasn't interrupted once in 37 levels, and never ran out of mana unless I got chain aggroed for 3 minutes straight, in which case you have a 30 minutes recast spell that refills your mana 100%. Seriously, it's overpowered so far.

This might get me to play my Conqueror again :)

Thanks, much appriciated even if I wasn't the one asking for it. Maybe it'll save me from the worst of gimpdom. :)

Trying to decide on a class, hepl.

I like specialization, but I don't like healing. (I'm a team player, I just don't care quite enough about other people to babysit health bars as a top priority.) I'm equally comfortable in the role of a tank or DPS.

Just observing, it seems that the Guardian is the best overall tank, while the Assasin is the best overall DPS. Can anyone confirm this, or offer some alternate suggestions for classes?

Also, what is needed more in the game, tanks or DPS?

Barbs probably come second after Assassin in the shredding department. With probably more benefits in the aoe department (skill wise, and perhaps reach-wise). There's some aggro holding skills, perhaps for situational off-tanking/saving someone's ass, but it's pretty much a dps class. If I'm quitting, then that's one less barb in the guild. I know Morfiend is one, but not sure who else (not even sure if he's in Bat Country).

I played four different classes (Necromancer, Assassin, Herald, ToS) before finally finding one that spoke to me- Demonologist.  I point at things, and they go BOOM and die.  Maybe I'm too tuned in to WoW-MMO mode, but before the Demo if more than two things were on me I could never win.  And it seems like every kill quest tells me to kill mobs that only travel in huge roving mob gank squads. 

So far I'm not much liking PoM.  All I do mostly is spam the smite key.  There's not time in between.  When they get too close, I smack the spell that pushes them away.  Usuaully, they're spam smited to death before they get close again.  When I try and fight with my hammer, I mostly die.  I hated barbie, too.  Assassin was ok, though.  PoM is the only one I got over 10 though.  I want to get one char to at least 20 before I choose a new main.

That smite spell is deadly though...

I'm sure the fun of the class is in the actual priestly duty of things....With a group. If that's your thing.

I'm enjoying the ranger quite a bit. Its harder to play than, say the DAoC hunter, but not by much. Having to you know, actually aim to get your combos to hit is a new one to me, and I routinely get the crap beaten out of me on one failed Salvo I combo. On the other hand, its ranged DPS with the possibility of survival at close combat. The close combat combos for ranters are by and large ONLY aggro reducers, but there are talents that can boost your DPS output at close quarters.

I just saw that some people play necromancers.


How are they ?

I've been levelling a demonologist in the little time I've had to play, and finally got my first demon, and it seems rather...underwhelming, power/ability wise.  Does the pet get better? 

Also, how do necromancers compare? 

Necromancers are rolling death squads that only increase in power as more things die (not joking, i had 9 Things/pets out last night at level 26. 2-3 Frozen hates, and like 4 skull-guys). Theyt are also the hardest clases to play due to squisheyness and the fact that everyone knows kill him, kill the pets. I have found they are more of a support class. But i can hold my own VS. any other class if i am smart, or they are dumb. Other than that, Necromancers love large groups of mobs...love'm.
Please group up while PvPing a Necromancer please  :grin:

Best implementation of a necromancer i have played to date. And i have played a lot.

The demo pets do get better, and i think its the herald that also does fire debuffs (?), group with them.

Conquerors have a group buff that gives you a proc that debuffs fire inmunity by 50%, make friends with one.

Your pet is almost worthless, they only added it in since they didn't want to have a class called wizard.  You also just got hit with the nerf bat, all your AoEs now have cooldowns.

Thats the one!

Hm.  Thanks for the all the input, guys. 

I was gone all weekend and couldn't remember if those cooldowns were there before or not, I didn't think that they were and now I know.

As far as Demonologists, mine is I think 23 and I'm not finding it all that worthwhile.  Most fights I find myself just spamming the same spell over and over hoping they die first.  I find the pet to be more of a liability than anything else.  Things remain agro'd on you even if you've managed to run away because your pet is still there doing it's pitiful damage.  Maybe it's supposed to be that way but I find it pretty annoying.

I'm thinking of trying a Conqueror.

There goes the only thing the class had going for it.  Glad I have some alts in the works and a lvl 20 barbarian I put on hold.  I'm not sure now I'd be able to take a 3 pull without biting it and that happens enough to make this an issue.  Those spells didn't need a nerf bat, they have significant casting times and are ground targetted, so they're painful enough to use.

Pretty much if you're rolling a demonologist, you're rolling a shock wizard.  Fire right now is just bad.  The fire feats are pretty much worthless and the ones that aren't don't work or don't work in a way that's helpful (buff that only procs on melee strikes..  :awesome_for_real:).  Your base spell has no AE effect other than a minimal splash damage.  Hurl a fireball at two closely bunched guys and only one gets singed.   And if your damage absorber (5 minute duration) goes down, you're going to get gibbed by a 2 pull.

And yah, the pets are nothing but a complete disappointment.  I doubt you'd notice playing without one out.

If they are anything like necromancers, look at your talents. Necro also has a must have up buff, part of why i say all casters are harder to play. But will be sick in the end game or any large scale PvP.

Playing a Tempest of Set. Currently level 19, just left Tortage.

This far it has felt like a punishment for something I did in a former life. Not necessarily hard, but very very monotone. The utility spells have no real purpose unless you urge to make things complicated. Will update if they give me a break.

If you are on Zug, you should group up with some BC people. I found grouping to be very fun. Mush less repetitive, and just explosions and gore.

I'm playing a Demo and he seems pretty awesome (if a bit squishy). The first pet is a mana buff pet so you basically never run out of mana. You get a health pet and a new defense spell at level 25 (which I just got). Last night I was almost able to gank a level 30 warrior of some kind with two level 25 guards stabbing me in the back.

I pretty much just use the one Fire of Eternal spell or whatever it's call. Over and over. All the other spells are useless. I put all my feat points into buffing that one spell. I can usually take two mobs no problem and sometimes three. If I think about it I do use the root spell. If I run away and get my health back I can usually turn around and kill a chasing mob. I can kill a solo mob with my dagger. And yeah if your 5 minute defense spell runs out you get jacked pretty quick.

I have my skill points maxed in mana regen, caster concentration, and run speed. I'm on a PVP server so I also did 50 climbing, 50 hiding, and 50 perception so far. I don't think I've ever used Rest.

I meant that more as, while most classes have directional attacks that mean something and a lot of spells have smallish AE radii, the Fires of Gehenna has a pitiful splash damage that requires the mobs to be nearly humping each other.  You get a talent that says something cryptic, but all it does is double that less than useful splash damage.  It doesn't really make a difference and never would in pvp. 

Effectiveness in large scale PVP is pretty much a moot point at the moment, isn't it?  Fire tree has no CC also. 

Edit: That mana buff from the pet scales for shit.  It's like 90 mana at level 80.

Edit numero dos:  I'm not saying I don't find the class fun, I do.  Burniating is fun, but I think the class is poorly conceived and a bit gimpy.  Holy shit, that Havoc tree is butter.  Respec time. I will miss the burning.

Playing on the EU farm with some friends, "unfortunately".

I got to say that casters seem like total boredom reading the replies here. Everyone of them appears to be a one-trick pony.

This is probably a stupid question but you are leading with the AE, chaining a mob with the electricity, blasting with fires of g until they are near dead, then finishing with the quick cast to eliminiate the first mob, yes?  Also, you can lead with the AE, let them come in and blast with the cone of fire, then root with chains, back up a bit and blast till dead and repeat.

The first AE does a decent amount of damage, from my experience.  It's like fighting mobs that are half of what they were after (maybe I was fighitng lower level mobs though).

I'm not sure why my 0-15 (demo), 0-20 experience seems so much different from what I'm seeing here.  I don't think either are squishy (for different reasons).  HoX is pretty much the only class that I've played that I'd call squishy, which is probably why you get a root spell, so you can run like a little girl.

I haven't looked at the demo, but what i was trying to compare was, i have a few talents that make single target spells, AOE by a chain-lightning sort of thing.

On paper, the demonologist looks completely awesome. But in actual play, I found it rather boring and repetitive. Bums me out because looking at their skill and feat list makes them seem like the ultimate in wizardry with a bag of tricks to match. But I ended up wanting to kick the pet to the curb and getting bored with nuke spam. It hurts double when you've played a melee class where you're constantly moving around and doing all kinds of fun and engaging things.

I agree that casters aren't remotely as engaging as the melee.  And there are many simple battles that require the use of just the one spell, which is boring.  But I didn't think the demo was squishy to the level that I played it (16).  I could see how it might have more issues later on if more/multiple mobs was the rule (4 is hardish).

Squishiness isn't an issue for me either as a ToS, -but-, while I can kill three, maybe four mobs, it doesn't feel rewarding at all. All it's about is kiting and self-healing and spamming my "nuke". I have no real control over what's happening and it feels like I'm running on a timer. Two mobs I can just leave to hit me while I spam lightning on them. Regen rates generally don't motivate elegant play.

That.

42 ToS here on Dagoth. The ToS is becoming much more engaging since I have dumped all but 5 feat points into the Lightning tree and have 3 extra active skills from it. The level 40 mark seemed to make a big difference for that, as half the tree was unavailable up until that point.

Quicksand is only used in emergencies. Most bad guys are dead before they get two swings in. It's still very straightforward gameplay. But i am the kind of person that does not like having to flip between multiple hotkey bars mid fight. One bar for combat and one for out of combat buffing is a sweet spot for me.

That sounds interesting.  Do you end up using a variety of spells or tactics in battle?  I'm tempted to play one but scared of the "1-2-3 repeat" playstyle.

Depends on what i am doing, and whats around me. So, i guess, yes? Be warned, its not an easy class to play, and in PvP, that goes even more so. Be not afraid to die.

Then again, i did hold the record for most deaths on my old Eq2 server, i think i was like in the top 40. But thats because i will toss myself at something, just to see if i can.

I grouped with a HoX last night that pulled off a 9k crit using one of talents.

Flame lance or somesuch IIRC.

Fire Lance, yeah, its like the HoX one really good ability right now, that pretty much all specs include. The problem being its a 5 combo chain, so its pretty hard to hit someone with it in PVP.

I'm not so sure I'm digging on Assassin at this point (mid-20s.) He feels like a class that needs a group to be effective (and so far I'm not seeing a lot of incentive to group.)

I really only feel confident fighting 2 enemies while solo, and even then I get squished pretty hard sometimes. My DPS is high, so they die at about the time I start getting dangerously low on health.

The few times that I have grouped it let us take on more tougher monsters, and I felt that my DPS was winning most of those fights with high direct damage and decent DOTs.

I'm still enjoying it at 45, soloing can get a bit hairy if you pull more than 2, but duoing with a PoM is just fucking amazing, the squishiness goes away and the raping goes into overdrive.

I've been happy with how my Guardian is playing (even if aspects of the game make me pissy).  I'm entirely sword and board, leveling with my feats mostly centered around doing dps.  As I near the 70-80 mark I'll respec into a pure tank build for guild use and abuse as I can. 

I'm constantly amazed with how much I can handle.  At lvl34, I can handle 3 of the "Ymir Destroyer" elite mobs.  Takes me five minutes to kill them, but my absorption is outstanding.  Also at lvl34, I solo'd the outflow quests under Tarantia.  Often I'd have 4-5 lvl35s on me, but still scrape through.  I can't wait to see full plate. 

I'd wager I level slower than most classes because I can't dps as well, but I'm ok with it.

My Dark Templar hit 20 tonight.  It was a little slow going at first, but now that I have some abilities it's starting to be lots of fun.

Unless I'm mistaken, you only need to hit with the very last swing of the combo for it to connect.

DISCLAIMER: All that follows is my interpretation from several days of being apprenticed into the mid-60s with abilities equivalent to mid-to-upper 40s.  I'm guessing things improve as ability ranks scale.

I'm playing a HoX right now (49) and I can tell you that group PvP is largely a bitch.  I get to blow my big 3 minute cooldown (the lance) by getting CC'd and losing the combo.  After that, I get to run through my stam bar trying to hit some jackass that just keeps running in circles (I think I've managed to hit one person with Body and Spirit Wrack) or gets massively healed (think: bear shaman, ToS, PoM).  All the while, someone's calling targets in vent and I'm stuck tabbing through a million goddamn pets and cyclones--because with all the effects on the screen, it's impossible to see shit.  Eventually, someone takes notice and I get wrecked.

Okay, I'm sure that sounds a little vitriolic, but the point I'm driving at is this: life as a paper-tiger melee in a game dominated by crowd control and healing largely blows.  I'm sure many melee classes can say the same thing--especially assassins, since they can't re-stealth if anyone in the group is currently in combat  :awesome_for_real:.  On the upside, it looks like this latest patch fixed the cyclone/totem spam, so at least things are a little less cheesy.

I have a love/hate thing going with my Ranger.  After throwing some cash into redoing my feats a couple times, I've settled on a X-bow heavy spec with a stance that adds a good sized chance to knock back the enemy with each shot (though I hear it only rarely knocks back in PVP).  I can take around two or three mobs of even level at a time, but I can't say it's a really fun class to play.

Part of the problem (and I'm sure this is probably true for most of the classes) is that new combos and abilities really seem to dry up in 20-40 level range.

Depends on the class. My assassin got more vicious, but my ranger gets less abilities.

I don't know what to say. I am a lev 51 Tempest of Set and I never felt any kind of monotnoy other than in the first 10 - 15 levels. The class gets new tricks as it grows, and you can get more of it with feats. Totems, stuns, roots, aoe, damage shields, procs. Even pets later on. I really don't know what were you looking for but I'd say you are playing the class wrong. Plus we can use crossbows, shields, polearms meaning we can dish out a good melee beating too. It's the most interesting hybrid spellcasting class I've ever played in a MMORPG. Ever.

Did I mention that you have to be a smart healer now, using positioning and hoping your party keeps the formation tight? And I am talking about PVP here. Gone are the days when you just stood somewhere behind the lines clicking names on the group window and spamming heals on the dying ones.

Demonologists can one shot mobs?
pic (http://www.chewystrats.com/exploitproof.JPG)

He says he's level 19. You say it's boring for the first 10 to 15 levels. Are you sure it wasn't the first 20 levels. In other words, it's entirely reasonable that your post only confirmed his feelings. In fact, it did. ^_^

Uh oh.

Erm... well... right... then keep on! Things will get better  :grin:

:-) I will then, but I was hoping for some elegance also in the early game.

I kind of like the concept for healing however. But I liked clicking green bars too. I did it for years. :pedobear:

More proof
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xFB8hM0FzoI

I think a lot of that is that if you play a melee class, you need to learn how the shield thing and combos work so they want to give you some time before they drop too much on you. You don't get that with a caster, it's the same old click the smite button as every other game.

It's probably also a remnant of the "play solo until 20 and then start characters at 20" thing that seems to have been dropped.

That was the exploit they took the servers down for four hours to fix a couple days ago.

You guys made me buy this game!  :uhrr:

Got a level 12 assassin now, enjoying her (yes, I made a girly... I decided if I was going to look at a bum for many hours it might as well not be a big hairy male one...) a lot, once I worked out how to use stealth - I've been 1-shotting some mobs a couple of levels lower than me which is cool :p

She does feel a bit squishy sometimes though but I'm putting that down to my own inexperience - sometimes I take on 2 mobs my level and omgbbq them... sometimes they omgbbq me  :ye_gods:

Enjoying the class and the game though :)

17th Herald of Xotli here.

If find I've been ignoring Flame Breath and doing nearly all my damage through combos; it just seems ineffective next my 2H-sword.  Was loading up on all these mana items until I realized I hardly use any mana.

They're pretty squishy but I can handle multiple mobs if I unload my biggest combo right away.  Ranged casters supporting a couple melees give me trouble though.

I played an Assassin and a Barbarian up to 10 or so and they mostly played the same to me, except the Assassin died easier.

What are the big differences between the two later on? Are there some defining skills or abilities to really separate them?

My flame breath has always done more damage than my non-combo attacks, and since it doesn't delay your attacks why not use it while getting combos off.  It's like extra free ae damage.

Sadly, I'm still excited about playing yet another character through Tortage. Well, not so much Tortage, but my need to sate my curiosity of how the different classes play. Oh, and what each archetype's role is in the Tortage story line.

Ya I'm an altaholic. But demmit, I'm looking forward to going home and rolling up that Stygian Assassin I've been thinking about playing.  :grin:

Then it's a  :pedobear: Shaman...

I think after that, I'll be done. Except for finishing up either my Demonologist or my HoX through Tortage. Unless I decide to try a Necro.

If I pass out, someone please remove the needle from my arm. Thanks.

Well shit. You learn something new every day.  I thought they would interrupt.

I like my Priest of Rhona Mitra. She's pretty great. And I'm player her topless because:

1. It's super hot.
2. Armor doesn't do dick?

O.o

Tests have been done? I'll be seriously pissed if that's the case...

The difference at low level is super nominal. Not worth it when the alternative is titties.

In Tortage the difference of 0.2 defense from armor is about nil. Edit - I really need to pay more attention to the red text when it pops up.

But the tit differential is HUGE.

Well ok you can't attack and cast at the same time but what I means is it will only delay your next attack by it by 0.3 seconds, assuming you put 5 points in possession line (which is recommended anyways).  Either way you barely lose any time and increase your dps by quite a bit, and during battle there isn't too much to spend mana on so it's essentially a free blast every 4 seconds.

Yes indeed. Speaking of tits, I am peeved that I did not get to bed that Alyssa wench from the Thirsty Dog. She seemed willing but gave me that line that "Come back when you're not hunted by the Red Hand" or some such. I even went so far as to come back to Tortage after killing the leader to collect my just "rewards" but she was still giving me the Red Hand line. Lame.

 

On another note, I got my female toon to sleep with a drunk, then blackmail him by threatening to tell the whole town that his dick was limp. Go Go M rated quest writing!

You want to put your first 5 feat points in to the Flame Breath casting time reduction, then you go Combo, flame breath, combo flame breath, and pretty much any even level pack of mobs is dead. If you put 5 points in to that feat, your flame breath casting time is .3 second. It makes it much much better.

I totally want to do her.  And get Sancha's outfit for myself.  Okie, maybe I want to do her, too, in the process of getting her clothes.

I'm such a whore.  (It's okay though, I follow Derketo.)

I get it now. I better read those talents again.

Edit: Um yeah, what Morfiend said actually.

It's nice to use when you've got a huge group of mobs around a single tank.  The downside is that its range is super-short, so if someone (say, your PoM) keeps repulsing (even though you've told him a million times to fucking stop) it's just a big whiff.  When I'm off by myself, I admit that I rarely use it, and I haven't blown the 5 talent points on its upgrade yet.  It looks like I'll have to do some calculations and a little talent planning.  For those that are wondering, my flow is basically an alternation between Molten Steel Slash and Hell Strikes.  I throw in Burn to Death from time to time, but honestly, things die so fast that its DoT effect never really seems worthwhile.

Regarding equipment; I've heard that our class gets boned on itemization.  As far as I know, the current recommendation is to use assassin gear.

Yeah, because we need stamina more than mana. Assassin gear sometimes has +dagger damage bonuses, which is obviously useless for us, but it does also sometimes have a -hate modifier, which is nice.

With out the feat its not very good, once you put 5 points in to the feat it becomes a staple of your class. It does amazing damage and is damn near insta cast. I recently changed servers, and playing a lowbie HoX (pre level 14) sucks. All I want is to get to level 14 to have my 5 feat points in Imp Flame Breath. It is that good.

I usually open with Molten Slash for the debuff, then FB, combo, FB. Pretty much everything around me dies.

As an update my Priest of Mitra is feeling much better now.  The healing does get more powerful as you level although some of the eighties are saying Bear Shaman have better HoTs at max level while we have a CC specialty.  Once you get your AoE knockdown spell you also feel a lot more powerful in combat, I can do some pretty nice damage.  I have some feats which proc one of my HoTs on me as soon as I'm hit so I don't usually even have to heal myself.  Lance of Mitra is a pretty good spell too since it damages anything in a line.

And I got some blue PANTS to replace my skirt as a drop last night from Sanctum so I'm happy.

Damn. Now that i know that, I wish I had a feat respec for my HoX who's still sitting at 15. =(

Playing as a lvl 20 Guardian, I feel slow, and ineffectual. Sure, I generate hate, but not enough to pull shit off casters with the slow ass combos.

Proceed to tell me I suck at tank. You may be right.

No, just your teammates need to lrn2play without threat meters and to adjust to a new paradigm.

Yep, casters get -#% to hate on the equipment. Its not the role of tanks in this game to create hate, its the casters role to lesson their hate. I think. Don't quote me.

I have some of that problem.  I'm a Dark Templar duoing with a Priest of Mitra.  It takes some time for my things to build up while the priest is blasting away and doing more damage.  Whatever though.  If the priest wants to start blasting before I reach the mobs so I have to turn around run back, they can take the hits.

NICE.  I need to go back there for that shit.

Okay, mid 20s the Guardian gets a bit more effective. Still can't pull mobs off a PoM though.

 :pedobear: shamans are houses.

My HoX tanks better than my assassin, that does not make me the happy.

And they should. Stop making up things to bitch about that make no sense.

Okay, having played around with several classes I'll give my verdict on those. This might serve as tip for people who are interested in rolling one of the following. I will also compare a bit to other games where people might feel more familiar with what I'm talking about.

Barbarian - Up to level 46
Barbarians are killing machines. They wear light armor and are not designed to be a tank versus heavy punishment, but a decent HP pool, tons of stuns / CC's / knockdowns with Berserker build (2 Hander build) more than makes up for it. In PvE, if you go Berserker build or Reaver build doesn't matter, Barbarians got very high damage output and can easily solo 2-3 mobs +2 levels above them, probably 4 of same level mobs without issues. Since potions and foods / buffs are so cheap to get, having them run 24/7 and potting up in big fights will allow you to be a very effective solo leveling class and even better in group, teamed with any class. Your high damage output will generate a lot of threat, and the stamina usage is overall high, but some handling and not combo chaining 24/7 will allow far greater efficiency in group play.

PvP-wise Barbarians are currently kings of PvP while leveling. To put it simply in World of Warcraft terms, imagine an MS/Fury Warrior merged with all the best feats of the Rogue class, just AoE.  I'm not sure of my exact stats, but sitting at 3XX kills and 21 deaths currently, solo playing and fighting same or higher level opponents, and often multiple of them. If you are skilled, you will defeat most classes with ease and some feats like No Escape (An ability where you throw your weapon and impale the enemy stunning him and watching his HP bar tick from 100% to 0% mostly), Earth Shatter(Yet another AoE Stun and Finishing Blow(A charge that increases the damage of your next attacks by.. a lot, not sure exactly how much, but you will do massive damage after this charge. Can probably put out 3k-4k damage with crits after a Finishing Blow at lvl 46) are insanely good and not to be passed up. Also picking up Excellent Balance and Unstable Mind is a must for PvP, the former makes you immune to knockbacks for 10-15 seconds (1-5 points spent) and the latter breaks you free out of any root / stun / snare and grants you temporal immunity. I'm personally expecting several nerfs to the Barbarian class, but it is a blast to play anyhow. Also with full points in Hiding, your stealth is very effective and is the best in the game alongside with others who specc fully for it, but has no penalties and with Skulking maximized you will move as fast as everyone else.

Also make good use of your rest ability and put points in Fast Recovery, it will regenerate your stamina very rapidly after fights.

Going to write about Tempest of Set, Assassin and Conqueror once they are in the 40's.

Priest of Mitra are completely imba and ridiculous in PVE. Between the second feat tree and the number of AOEs/Cone Fires you can learn, you can effectly take on multiple even to +2 mobs. I don't even know what to say. I expect a massive nerf. At 30 I feel nearly unstoppable. Nearly. I tend to push things and get myself killed. But that's my fault, not the class' fault.

Rattran wants to try out PVP tomorrow.

Priest of Mitra are very vulnerable in PvP versus rogue / mage archetypes, so do not expect any nerfs. Nerfing one will kill the other. However, Tempest of Set is a God amongst the rest for PvE mob killing, Priest of Mitra is also efficient, but compared to the Tempest AoE abilities its not quite there in damage / AoE output. It is rather squishy at lower levels, but at 30 plus it starts to shine massively. At 35+ you can pull 5-6-7 mobs and kill them with a manabar.

The other classes I've played include Ranger, Necromancer, and Assassin. Ranger is getting a bit more powerful (read: a lot) than my assassin.

Necro is a huge fucking mess.

But honestly, PVP is always going to be a minority of players and I'll never play on a straight PVP server. I'm sure guild wise things will be more tactical than FFA, but short of doing the architecture, I don't know how much I'll be involved - though some of it sounds hot. For the most part though, I'll only ever speak to PvE.

I see, however there are no decisions Funcom can make to nerf the Priest of Mitra that would gimp it too much in PvP, so you got nothing to worry about. For now at least  :awesome_for_real:

Yesterday I leveled my  :pedobear: shaman to 20 and while the increase at 15 was already noticeable, at 20 he really starts getting fun!

Started up an Assassin and I  :heart: it so far. He's only 12, though, so that opinion obviously deserves salt. Still, though, it is quite fun.

I'm a little confused about what sorts of abilities bear shamans have when they're grownup.  HOTs, rez?, melee damage, is there any shapeshifting?  Where does the bear part come in?

Also -- are the two pet classes pretty much borked at this point?  I haven't heard anything good about demonologists.

Personally I'm not worried about a nerf, I'm hoping for one.  I just can't play mine anymore at level 41, it feels just absurdly powerful and I have no real motivation to get gear/levels as I already feel like a god.  I dunno, it just feels lame to me.

From my brief alting experiences I have to be honest and say that my impression is that the classes/skills/feats are pretty damn close to first passes with the general "feel" of the abilities in place but the values and damage amounts pretty much pulled out of thin air.  Same goes for items, really.

I know what you mean, its like me with my Barbarian. Its almost unfair. Honestly to me it feels like the WoW warrior era with 200% Mortal Strike and Arcanite Reaper which I had where I twoshot everyone and everything. I kinda know the nerfbat is coming my way, so I picked Conqueror as my main now, which is awesome and versatile.

Ow yeah I stopped my Tempest also currently, it is just too strong. I feel like a walking Tesla Coil with a drunk russian engineer who keeps repairing me when I get hit. (Means heals aren't that effective, but I'm full Lightning / General feat for now)

Bear shaman have the best HoTs, they get rezzes (at low levels too) and I think some of their healing is triggered from melee (although that might be tempest).  I don't know about shapeshifting.

Demonologists suck right now, there is really nothing going on there.  I don't know about necros but their forum is all up in arms about their bread and butter spell getting nerfed.  They seem to have a hard time solo but if they can team up with someone else to take the hits they have good dps.

My assassin at 51 is awesome in PVE but very very squishy.

However the class needs a lot.  A lot. 

Sprint and stamina mechanics are retarded.  The stam requirements for sprinting are % based.  So with nearly 2000 stam at level 51 I use that up just as fast as a caster with 500 stamina.  He regenerates his 500 faster since stam regenerates on a hard number while it takes a rediculous amount of time for my stam to regenerate to 2000.

Hide mechanics are broken.  As an assassin you need stealth.  However I can't hide during the day. or around dead bodies since they are still observing me.  I can't hide if my group mate is in combat on the other side of the zone. 

We have no CC/Stun at all.  We have snap kick on a 2min cooldown with a 90% fail rate in PVP that is in the middle of one feat tree, and we have another CC in the 2nd to last tier in the other feat tree, and I can't tell you how long the cool down is though since I'm not that high level.

If I get bashed, or stunned I'm done for since my paper armor lets me die in 2-3 hits.  Woot.

There are a myriad of other problems like our dagger not having a very big range of attack vs. polearms.  Our combo animations are too slow and all someone has to do is watch for us to wind up and back up slightly and we miss.  If we move at all during a combo animation it cancels.

Many of our buffs don't execute properly if we're in the middle of a combo or we press them in the wrong spot, we don't get the benefit but we get the cooldown!

All in all, we're pretty good in PVE mostly, but in PVP we're awful.

Anyway I've leveled to 50 as lotus and now I'm corruption.  Ask me question if you want.  I would of rerolled to a HoX or a ToS if I knew, but I'm not that much of a catass anymore to get back up to my level without pissing away another few weeks. 

Make sure you download the AOC Combat Parser.  Runs in real time from your desktop and can spit numbers to you in game as well.  It's an awesome tool to help you bugger out different specs, weapon combos etc.  Very easy to use.  So if you like numbers it's the way to go.


/bitching

At 51 I have 2 hots, one it triggered off a melee attack one is just a hot but it gets better with the more attacks I do, a direct heal that can be used every minute, and a combo heal that has a 2 minute cooldown (the last one is a feat). I can res, I have 4 self buffs and a group buff, I have 1 aoe short aoe stun on a minute cd. most of my damage comes from melee combos, the 2 I use are crush armor which is an armor debuff and another one that I can't recall the name of that puts a bleed dot on mobs. Most things die in two combos. No shapeshifting but most of the spell effects have bear themes (the res is really cool looking).

What is with calling for just about every class to be nerfed? An MMO where you actually get more powerful (instead of weaker) the more you level is a breath of fresh air. At level 80 I should be able to take out a whole fucking zone in an orgy of pillage by myself.

You're suppose to be a hero not cog #3 in a 25 man raid. That's fucking stupid.

Totally agree.

I was messing around with my baby  :pedobear: shaman last night and it was all fun and games until I got to the first trip to the volcano on the destiny quest. Die/Respawn/Die/Respawn/Die/Respawn. Kind of discouraging. Then I go back to my Barbarian and I feel much better.

:ye_gods:

Balance.

What do you think is going to happen if everyone gets to 80, and 3 classes are totally dominant in PVP?

Buffs, not nerfs.

Only the last move of a combo requires you to stand still.  :grin:

Oh, that happened to me too!  I died 4 times.

It sounds good later though.  I think I'll suffer through for a while longer - I like how it plays, just don't like dying.

Yeah I haven't given up on him yet, from what I hear they do get better after 20 or so.

Yeah, I died a lot there as well. Low level  :pedobear: shaman get raped by two enemies of comparable level. But it gets massively better. By the time I killed Strom I was in a blood frenzy and killed those buggers left and right while laughing at whats left of their faces after I crushed them with my hammer.

Instances scale to your level. Having issues? Enter the instance, then leave, gain a few levels somewhere else, and come back, they will be the same level as when you bound that instance to you (as in the first time).

Moar posts by this guy, the rest of you are carebear bitches.

Shut the fuck up, Donny. 

Edit: I'm completely serious, don't bring that here.

The Tempest of Set is God Mode in PVE.

Let's be more clear:

Since level 60 (and I am 65 now), I've been able to pull up to 5 (five) mobs 3 and sometimes 4 levels higher than me and destroy them in 15-20 seconds. 5 mobst at once, 4 levels higher than me. No minions involved.
That results in a 5 chain kills which gives bonus XP, hence mobs that usually give you like 1800 xp pile up with the chain kill bonus to somthing like 11000 xp per pull.

Yes, 11k xp per pull, in 20 seconds.

I have no downtime, mana recovery is a joke, same with health (I heal myself). The only downtime is with the totemic Idol of Set, which takes like 45 seconds to refresh, but I don't need it unless it's a 5 mobs pull. And there's no zone in the game so far where mobs respawn fast enough for me. The bottleneck to the XP rampage of a ToS is the mobs respawn rate.

It's uncanny. I've been accused of cheating by passers by more than once and 1 out of 2 guildees is secretely rerolling a Tempest of Set.
Maybe we suck in PvP, I don't know, but in PvE we are playing in God Mode. It's close to not fun.

My TOS kept dying and dying and dying. Was pretty good in a group though.

Then again, with my decent computer specs I was probably playing in waist deep water and controlling him by semaphore.

You won't make me believe a MMORPG can be about skills. I suck, still the ToS is on autopilot, he can win the game alone.
Yes, you probably were doing something really wrong. Or you put points in the wrong feats. Or then again, you were under level 15.

I thought ToS just got nerfed and you couldn't do that anymore?

I thought so too. I was wrong.

I still can.

My ToS hit 26 last night. Already I can pull 3-4 +1 mobs and nuke them to oblivion. All I need to do to manage is to cast the HoTs before entering combat. Some advancement curves (mob HP to lightning DPS) go fucked around level 22-23 it seems.

My POM is pretty broken too. At 35 I can solo +4 mobs, +2 elites, +2 boss and two +2 helpers, and 4-5 even-levels quicker [and safer] than my even-leveled DPS guildies, and I am specced for healing (I only have 2 points in the vengeance tree). The only real weakness is running out of mana, but that'll cease to be a problem once I stop being a cheapskate and get some lv30 mana drinks / pots and max out ether flow. Fighting elites with KD is also risky, and I might need to burn a few cooldowns (invulnerability, burst heal); fighting multiple casters is blah because I can't AOE them (there are no LOS objects in the wild).

Lance (they're clustered up so usually two of them gets hit), Smite (while they're closing in, they're close enough to all get hit at this point), Repulse (it hits just when they get into melee range), strafe to the side, Lance the farthest mob (hits all of them while they're getting up), optionally fear a caster, repeat Smite and Lance until Repulse is back up, optionally Rebuke to finish the main mob off and switch, should only take one more nuke per mob at this point, at most. If I got Cleansing Fire into my build (0.5s cast cone AOE, early veng talent) or the talent that turns Radiance into an AOE smite, they'd die even faster. As it is, I don't even need to look at normal adds (when fighting a boss) or minion adds (for any sort of pull) since they'll die to the first Repulse or very quickly after that.


-- Z.

I'm kinda bummed I picked the ToS now, as it is looking to be the FotM.

Oh well, back to my AOE leveling :P

This is where the vengeance tree makes a difference. There's a mana tap skill that pretty much cuts cost down on spells to 25-50%.

Wow.  And I was feeling powerful on my bear shaman mid-20s because I could fight 3 even con mobs at once (after casting my HOTs and keeping them up).

I wonder how many PoMs and ToSs will quit when the classes get adjusted?

On another note: I have heard very little about the tanks.  What's the deal, are those classes the most balanced/least broken and everyone's happy but not ecstatic?  Complaints about the pet classes, bear shamans, and mix for the rogues, but little about the tanks.

PoMs and ToS that get past level 40 (the smart ones who don't just switch to be FoTM) probably won't quit. It would take a MASSIVE nerf to make the PoM be less useful. It's just a great class period.

I've only tried Guardian for the tanks, but it was tediously slow until about lvl 24, then got fun in the low 30s. I just hit 40 last night, and am feeling pretty powerful for a change. Not as much dps as the Barb, but a huge amount more survivable. I can take 3 +3 mobs without much problem, though 2 even con casters will give me problems.

It only takes 1 ranger ripping me to tear apart my PoM or my ToS. But now that I know that, I run up to any fucker with a bow and arrow and make him punch me with it.

That's what SHOULD be powerful.  The ridiculous power of the PoM is just unfun, imho.

I'm pretty sure a Herald of Xotli could be specced to be a god having looked through the skills. That's actually my next class after I hit 40 with my Tempest (who is 31 or 32 now). I'm glad I decided to play through a bunch of characters to 40. I really, really, really like the first 40 levels.

Mine is taking the slow boat to 80, and is still 51. But it seems like we only do well with mobs that allow themselves to be bunched up. If there are a mix of melees and ranged mobs, or all ranged, then I struggle.

Do you use storm field? What are the must have feats for grinding like you do?

It could be, if (no joke) around 40% of their Feats where not broken. I am having a lot of fun with the class, but it is pretty tough. Cloth + Melee + very limited CC = one mistake and death.

My ranger is 14 now.

I don't feel overly tough, but I certainly have no issues doing things in at either ranged or melee.  I started getting medium armor drops, which may help my melee survivability some.  Can't say anything bad about my damage output, though.  Fights are nice and quick.  Against stuff just under my level, I rarely lose any hp fighting just one, and with a bit of luck, or me pulling with a bow combo, 3-4 is not problem.

I've only died twice, both times from not really thinking and just running into/by stuff.

Admittedly, I haven't played any other classes yet.  But I can see being a terror in a group, just sit back and tear up enemies from range.  And big enemies... not gonna stand much of a chance against a group.

A lot of people have posted about problems with things spawning mini-bosses on them... Do they becoming relatively harder as you level, or are they playing weaker classes?  I can just tear mini and normal bosses up; moreso if I get to initiate combat, but they stand little chance even if I don't.

As a ToS I can take a mini or even a normal boss all by itself no problems if I have time to setup - if it surprises me (around a corner) and aggresses before I can get my heal buffs setup I'll probably die unless it's a weak one or I get some lucky crits. If it has 1 or 2 minions that get on me too, I'll most certainly die.

At level 19, playing a ToS is tough work (can only wear light armor/cloth) and you really have to pick your fights and make sure you are setup for them. DPS is high but paper thin armor and low HP = lots of death against multiple baddies unless you can setup for each engagement. For reference, I've probably died 15 times, 3 during the Destiny quest alone and I'm still not done with that.

Around level 30+ the deaths will stop. At 40+ you will be Jesus. At level 50+ you are God. So its all uphill. Also ToS is definitely the FoTM, but so is Barbarian in PvP and our nerfs just started, I'm expecting much more.  :uhrr:

ToS is only going to get nerfed a little. And even then, not much. Getting 40+ just doesn't matter because there's very little content.

Hey Schild, I saw that you have a necromancer. Conceptually im having trouble with my little 12 necro. I die almost anytime i get jumped by 2 even level mobs. Back when you were a little necro, what were you doing to avoid dying at every 2 pull? I would appreciate any advice at all anyone has though.

Keeping in mind I'm only 23 (and have two on different servers), my Dark Templar feels well balanced.  My conqueror feels a little stronger, but is only in her teens.  My roommate's Conqueror is tough, but not ungodly, at least certainly not to the extent I'm hearing about other classes.

My 45 conq is pretty decent, i can take about three mobs a couple levels higher than me at a time.  In a group he becomes a monster as long as someone else is tanking.  furious inspiration a class buff that stacks up to 10 times when someone else is getting hit adds 20% dmg total plus it randomly heals and REZZES my group mates, if i can sit there in frenzy stance and lumbering hulk while someone else tanks im scary.  All the group buffs, auras, formations, commands, orders are nice too, although i havent really used them much.  Its very hard for tanks to keep aggro off me, even with zero points in taunt, i CAN tank if needed but im not really the ideal person for the job.

A lot of classes suck terribly until mid teens or even 20.  Bear shaman was squishier than my demonologist until he got bloodflow.  Even then, he had problems until about 20 and I feel has really only come into his own at 25+.  It seems most classes go through a bit of an awkward phase from 8-14.  Except barbarian, that was retardedly easy all the way until 20. 

I'm really curious about trying a necro just to see how bad it really is.

Ranger doesn't really have a weak spot so much as a role confusion spot.  Am I melee?  Bow user?  Crossbow user?  Which is mostly answered by the DPS of the weapon drops you've gotten lately.  By 14 I've done all of the above as my 'primary' method.  Currently use bow either until the enemy archer/caster is dead, or if all are melee, until stuff gets into melee, then switch to the beat-stick.

I've yet to find a spot where I don't think the class can do what I need to; but then, I don't tend to try red-colored quests, or the like.  I've got too many that I'm outleveling to do that yet.

Finally someone else who plays Conqueror. So far in the thread it's all been "I think I might try a Conqueror" or "make friends with a Conqueror, they're worth having around".

Mine is only 30 so you'd know more, but here's how I see it: Conqueror is the tank class with the highest DPS. (Edit - As others noted below, this is totally wrong - it might be the theory, but it's not the practice - the Conqueror's damage output is a bit crap at the moment.).  It's nothing like the DPS of a DPS class, but it means Conqueror is fun to play in a game whose major innovation is the melee system. It also means Feats are what determines whether the Conqueror is a worthwhile tank or not.

We are all specced for levelling at the moment, not tanking, so we're currently not good tanks and people are only noticing our group procs/buffs (which can also be significantly boosted with Feats). We might find at the high end people will be selling themselves to groups/raids as "tank conq", "buff conq", "dps conq", etc, based on Feats. (Edit - This also is totally wrong, according to the class boards. Conquerors are also pretty bad tanks compared to Guardians and Dark Templars. Sigh.).

I die all the time.  ALL THE TIME.  It doesn't matter what class I play.  I was a decent healer in SB and CoH, but I still died ALL THE TIME.  Luckily, most of the games I play now have trivial death penalties.  I can't help trying to kill stuff that is well beyond my ability at least twice before I move on.

Conquerors do have some nice group buffs.  I'd like to see what a group of Conquerors could dish out.

Ive heard Guardians do more damage than Guardians currently.

A conq group would be insane, even with no heals whoever died would almost instantly be rezzed.  I specced 2h because DW had no cc and it wasn't cutting it on a pvp server.  Now i've got two knockdowns, a stun and a 95% snare that only lasts a few seconds and i can easily hold my own 1v1.  I tanked all of sanctum at 43 without really trying too, the 39 guardian simply couldnt keep aggro.

That just blew my mind.

Level 53 toons can't keep aggro when I'm playing my 40 PoM. I don't really think Hate works.

Like, at all.

Then how am i pulling aggro? :P

Or PoMs.

Thats probably due to Overreach.  Its a Guardian combo that does heaps of damage, but then you have -10% or something for the next 5 seconds or so.  Combine that with stance dancing into Frenzy stance as you hit that combo, and there is much 'nerf them' doomcasting going on on the forums about Guardian spike damage and how we all need to be nerfed.

Me, I'm enjoying my baby Guardian (20 now, just left Tortage).  A lot more survivable than my ToS (who is only 14, and I understand 15 is the first wow level for Tos), and the combo/melee system is just fun.  Anyone know if there are any visual clues for how to actively manage your shields?  Or are people just going even spread of shields?

At level 35 is where ToS becomes basically a walking god. If you've got the right mana tap stuff up and the right feats, it's death city. But it definitely starts at 35. I fear what 40 will do though.

Obviously I meant Conqs, my guild had this same conversation on vent earlier and people insisted that Guardians can out DPS a Conq. Fuck if I know...

These are my feats at level 67.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3274/2552453681_29d78e854d_o.jpg)

Please keep in mind that I have NO idea if they have been spent well or no. I never respecced yet and I know I'll have to do it soon. This build came out of nothing, just randonly experimenting. And while I am sure there are tons and tons better than this, I just know that I am a moving grinder, destroying everything in my path in a matter of seconds (PVE). Yes, I use Storm Field all the time, that is simply too powerful. It destroys everything in like 10 seconds, everything. It's insane. It's even better when you couple it with the Storm Crown thing, but is when you unleash the totem (fully specced) that mayhem starts. Don't be hassled by archers, charge them in! Place a totem right by them, HOT yourself and charge in! They'll be dead in 3 seconds. You have to think like a tank to grind effectively with the ToS, not like a squishjy caster. Your HOTS make you tough as nails and the X key is your friend while the Storm Field does its job.

Without the totem I am pretty much unkillable in PVE unless they are 5 levels higher than me and in huge numbers. With the totem it's God Mode.

Ive actually went and tried the general Priest tree for a minute with my level 39 ToS...

http://conankave.com/kave_calc/tempest_of_set/kave_calc.php?t1=11&t1feats=_503300000000000000000000000&t2=0&t2feats=_00000000000000000000000000&t3=21&t3feats=_550000023000050010

The extra physical resistance, the extra electrical and melee damage, and less cooldowns for the heals is sweet. The Vengeance of the gods ability is on a 3 minute timer, so it's like every other pull. Throw in the increasing good storm crown and I'm an AoE machine.

So, is the bear shaman always about spamming blood flow for the feat buff when you're soloing? Because I'm 15 with mine and it's already getting a wee bit tiresome. It's difficult to keep that and renewal up while still doing combos.

Everybody says that bear shaman suck during the teen levels but that they get much better in the higher levels.

I've heard the same. I'm just wondering if that blood flow spam continues through the life of the character.

Just got my  :pedobear: shaman to 32 and tbh she rocks.

Soloing is no problem, can take 3+ mobs my level, more sometimes. Mobs 3+ my level are doable singly, any higher than that is tough. But she also rocks in groups. Awesome healer, every single group I've had past 30 people have commented on the good healing.. and all I've been doing is spamming Bloodflow and Renewal :)

So far Blood Flow is the way, all the way. Don't need to worry too much about having it stacked 5 times for the damage buff but when fighting I always keep it up.

From what I've heard from higher level players BS's are also PvP machines  :grin:

I think I'm going in this direction with Priest of Mitra - http://www.conanarmory.com/feat.aspx?id=10 (http://www.conanarmory.com/feat.aspx?id=10#::e3fef3efe2f2def3ef2bf3e3f3e2f2ef16ebf2efbf3df2ef2ef)

Not sure how big of a help this would be, but might help for people having issues with archers.

On my ranger, I've noticed that I do a LOT more damage with Mid attacks than with left or right ones; 50-100% more damage.  So when facing archer enemies, it might be a good idea to shift a shield to the top, probably the left 1. (alt-1, alt-2).  Reversing the sequence would move it back.

Next time I get in an archer duel, I'll try this and see if it goes even easier than average.  (Ranged bleeds 4tw...  6hp/sec damage adds up quick, on top of me usually hitting for more.)

SOmeone asked here about using shields, and that's the best idea I can come up with off hand.

--
Alkiera

The knockback power on Repulse is something I really wanted to avoid increasing. You see, the way it is, if you have 5 guys in front of you (about the max number you can get without getting surrounded), it's the perfect distance to hit yourself with a maxed out radiance, and then hit them with the 120 degree arc spell. Basically, raping them. Any further would fuck that up. And it's already got enough downtime to get away from folks.

I think the points are actually needed to get down to the meatier stuff, apparently the rest of the further down stuff is useless or broken.

@photek or anyone else playing a guardian. Finding it boring?

Now that I have 2 Cimmerians (DT, BS) and a Stygian (Assassin) out of Tortage, I really want an Aquilonian next and can't decide what class to make em.

I am still on Tortage, but I like my guardian a lot. Haven't tried any other class, though. I like the KBs and shield sweep abilities.

Take this as you will, but I hear in the upper levels they are very powerful right now. They have the best defense and the best offense of all the Soldier classes. Its something that will *probably* get fixed.

I'm only 27, but I'm finding the same issue here.  Either I kill them very quickly, or I die.  I doesn't help that I always forget to use the root ability to run away.  Not sure that I'm going to take the char any further as I'm finding it frustrating to play compared to the ToS or the Templar (or the Barb).  The demon form is just disappointing, I know it's a power boost, but it doesn't/hasn't been able to turn a situation were two mobs become four mobs from defeat back to victory.  It's good for beating a boss + 2, and then because I do it in advance.

Still not sure if it's because I've spec'd/am playing it wrong, or because it's meant to be group class dps.

No, Guardian is great fun. If you don't like your Dark Templar I'm not sure how you will like Guardian, but we got massive damage output at the moment and expect massive nerfs on some skills. It is very fun to play and I like the though of being an immovable object with a shield, but thats me. However if you go Aquilonian, what about Priest of Mitra ? Or even Barbarian ? Both classes are awesome. So is Guardian, so good luck in your choice.

EDIT: To the one who heard  :pedobear: Shamans are awesome in PvP at higher levels. You heard correct. They are machines, solo or group. Me and my BS leveling buddy can take out 3-4 opponents of same + higher level classes. (Barbarian here). Heck throw in some clueless players and we'll take a train of 5-6.

EDIT2: The different between a Bear Shaman healer and a PoM/Tempest of Set, in group PvP you can't really leave your Priest / Tempest alone in some battles. Once Repulse / Cobra Stare / Quicksand is used you are mostly required around to defend and have to be very aware of your surroundings and enemies. You know a Bear Shaman will hold his ground and will not fall easily and can do perfect solo versus multiple opponents so you can play more offensive.

You say that like its possible to "defend" a caster with a melee character, do you mean by dropping root/snare/stun on them or something else?  How is it exactly that you can defend a squishy target in pvp.

Yeah it is. First the caster needs to actively block while under pressure and switch shields based on which class he fights. This is the great thing about playing all classes to 40ish cause you will learn what classes got most lethal combos on which side. Like on my Barbarian all my combos end on top or upper right. So if you fight barbarian switch the shield to 1 on top and 2 upper right. There you got much more survivability already. Second I have to save my Clobber / Stunning Punch / Earth Shatter / No Escape combos so basically that is roots / snares / stuns I use to help them. As a squishy caster it is always of highest importance to stay close to walls / trees / objects that can be used for line of sight and it is very important to use abilities on turn for the CC, so that means Clobber -> Knockback immunity, next oh shit situation -> Earth Shatter -> by this time knockback immunity gone -> Repulse etcetc. Also in AoC it is very important to never stay still while fighting. Always be on the move as it is all targeted and as melee do combos in the air and land the combo on targets. The white damage is nothing compared to combo damage.

Apart from all that theres the simple matter of collision detection, getting in front of your healer actually helps.