f13.net

Aye, unfortunately it's THAT time of the year again :(. So onward with the usual, lame weekly list we get every damn year.

100-91 (http://top100.ign.com/2007/ign_top_game_100.html):

100. Archon
99. Rayman 2: The Great Escape
98. Quake II
97. Silent Hill 2
96. Wave Race 64
95. Bionic Commando
94. NIGHTS into Dreams
93. Ultima VII: The Black Gate (yeah, right)
92. WipEout 3
91. Pilotwings

90-81 (http://top100.ign.com/2007/ign_top_game_90.html):

90. Okami
89. Alone in the Dark
88. Star Wars (Atari)
87. Advance Wars
86. Perfect Dark
85. Mafia
84. Maniac Mansion: Day of the Tentacle
83. World of Warcraft
82. Syndicate
81. Space Invaders

80-71 (http://top100.ign.com/2007/ign_top_game_80.html):

80. Ninja Gaiden Black
79. Secret of Mana
78. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
77. Star Fox
76. Final Fantasy VII
75. GoldenEye 007
74. Sam & Max Hit the Road
73. Resident Evil
72. MechWarrior 2
71. Planescape: Torment (yeah right)

70-61 (http://top100.ign.com/2007/ign_top_game_70.html):

70. Tecmo Bowl
69. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
68. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
67. Mega Man 2
66. Burnout 3: Takedown
65. Thief II: The Metal Age
64. Total Annihilation
63. Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution
62. Wolfenstein 3-D
61. Phantasy Star IV

60-51 (http://top100.ign.com/2007/ign_top_game_60.html):

60. Prince of Persia
59. Command & Conquer: Red Alert
58. Mike Tyson's Punch Out!! (nice)
57. ICO
56. NHL '94
55. Final Fantasy 2
54. Contra
53. Rome: Total War
52. Dune II: The Building of a Dynasty
51. Sonic the Hedgehog

50-41 (http://top100.ign.com/2007/ign_top_game_50.html):

50. Super Smash Bros.
49. Guitar Hero II
48. Shining Force II
47. God of War
46. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
45. Battlefield 1942
44. Panzer Dragoon Saga
43. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
42. The Legend of Zelda
41. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island

40-31 (http://top100.ign.com/2007/ign_top_game_40.html):

40. Gran Turismo 3 A-spec
39. Super Mario Bros. 3
38. Final Fantasy Tactics
37. Pokemon Blue Version
36. Grim Fandango
35. Grand Theft Auto III
34. Deus Ex (IGN sucks)
33. Fallout (yeah, right)
32. Halo: Combat Evolved
31. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

30-21 (http://top100.ign.com/2007/ign_top_game_30.html):

30. Metroid Prime
29. Dragon Warrior
28. Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness
27. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
26. Half-Life
25. Sim City 2000
24. Street Fighter II: The World Warrior
23. Super Mario Kart
22. System Shock 2
21. X-Com: UFO Defense

20-11 (http://top100.ign.com/2007/ign_top_game_20.html):

20. Metal Gear Solid
19. Doom
18. Chrono Trigger
17. Super Mario World
16. Shadow of the Colossus
15. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
14. Pirates ! (1987)
13. Ms. Pac-Man
12. Star Wars: Tie Fighter (Collector's CD-Rom)
11. Starcraft

Countdown to Doomsday Mario (http://top100.ign.com/2007/ign_top_game_10.html)

10. Resident Evil 4

9. Final Fantasy III
8. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
7. Super Metroid
6. Half Life 2
5. Super Mario 64
4. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
3. Civilization II
2. Tetris
1. :pedobear: :pedobear: Super Mario Bros. :hello_kitty: :hello_kitty:

I want to know if this list in any way jives with their prior lists, but am too lazy and just disinterested enough to not bother looking it up.

There needs to be rules for this shit. If a seque, like Q3A has come out that blasts the original into oblivion, there's no reason to include the predecessor - for example: Quake II.

Also, Rayman 2?!

They're just making this list to put Galaxy or some shit at the top anyway. I hate IGN. >_<

You could, conceivably, make this point about nQ/QW and Q3. You can't really make it about Q3 and Q2. The games are incredibly different at the core level. Also Q2 had "singleplayer" that was considered as decent at the time it was released.

The list will, of course, be shit :)

I'd like to see a list of 100 games that people Might Still Be Playing. Too many of these "Lists" fail the test of time. Maybe f13 should take a queue from BBC whatever that brit newspaper is and do 100 or 1000 games you have to play before you die.

Nah, because several of us would want to put Super Mario Galaxy on it.  Including me.

That is quite a nice idea: well, maybe not 100, but it would be nice to have a topic about it: from time to time, I fire up the good ol' Steem (Atari ST emulator) and while I find some of those games barely acceptable (umm, Purple Saturn Day, Captain Blood), there are others which I can still play for hours (Seven Gates of Jambala,many CRPGs and others).

I would have no problem with Mario Galaxy being on the list.

At no. 1!!!


Actually, i'd love for us to put a list together of the top 20 games that need to be graphically updated and released to the new generation.

A top 100 list with one game per page makes me cry.

You suck, IGN.

I am pretty sure everyone needs to play System Shock, Deus Ex and Thief.  Note that there are no numerals after those titles.  Also Blaster Master, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Ico and at least the original Ratchet & Clank.  Also Shadowhearts and Phantom Dust.  Maybe ActRaiser, but it's been a while so I might be looking at it through gauze.  Super Mario World.  Final Fantasy IV or VI or VII or XII, I will let you pick one.  Adventure and Combat.  Day of the Tentacle.  At least one Sam & Max game, for Christ's sake.  X-COM, in memory of the Gollops.  SimCity Something... 2000?  Civ II and/or Alpha Centauri.  Master of Orion II, and I'll even say Ultima VII.  Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time, once again letting you pick even though I think OoT edges out LttP.  Super Mario Galaxy, Super Metroid and Metroid Prime.  Eternal Darkness.  StarCraft, if only to see where the genre peaked.  Fallout.  Diablo II: Lord of Destruction (see StarCraft comment).

These are just the ones I have played.

Plus SSX3, Natural Selection, Freespace 2, Uplink, Riddick, Tyrian (2000), Star Control 2 (souceforge as ur quan masters, play it now now now), Ninja Gaiden, Shadow of the Colossus.

Pilot Wings brings back some great memories. :oh_i_see:

OH FUCK FUCK I FORGOT PORTAL!

What?

When I was at OBX learning to hang-glide last weekend, I made a joke that it was just like pilotwings, so I should have a leg up. I got a laugh, someone knew what I was talking about. I was surprised.

Note: It really is just like pilotwings.

Yah, and you should really mention to people to ignore Shadow Hearts 3.  Pretend the series ended on 2 (the high point).


 :ye_gods:

I hate these top 100 lists.  Lets just hope that something unreleased doesn't make the list.  Always fun when that happens.

Your type of list is definitely more useful (never played SS1 though.. SS2 was a real revelation to me).

Everybody knows the best game of all time is SensiSoccer, anyway.  :oh_i_see:

System Shock and System Shock 2 were rather different in my mind, and SS2 doesn't make the list since I put Thief in there... not that Thief is a horror-ish FPS but those zombies in Thief almost caused my heart to stop, several times.  The SS2 midwives do win the Creepy Common Enemy award, though.  I'd put the original System Shock into the "groundbreaking FPS like Half-Life but better" category.  Rollerskates in a FPS sounds retarded, but it's not.  Now I'm going to have to see if my rig and a new version of DOSBox can run it, so there goes my weekend.

About Shadowhearts, I figured #2 was better than #1 but sadly I have not finished it, and I cannot suggest it in good conscience.  Also forgot Riddick.  My bad.

I was trying to decide if I should put Half-Life on the Must Play List, or HL2 except that I can't just put HL2 on there by itself.  Still not sure.

I want to put Vagrant Story on there but I'm really not sure that most people would like it.

Bushido Blade.

Shadow Warrior better be on that list, comedy GOLD in there.

Balls of steel, squiiiiiiishy penis!

Every time I see the picture of the guy standing in front of the tank in tienamen square, thats what I hear. (in the Lo Wang voice)

Edit: Also, Privateer, pure awesomeness and my 286 ran it like butter.

Have to praise Terra Nova - Strike Force Centauri (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4qEwkliCVE).  Now that was a great game, easy to command squad actions, good graphics (for its day) just plain fun gameplay.  Hell you play a armored jump jet equipped soldier launching rockets down on your enemy.  Only crappy thing about it was the FMV cut scenes that apparently were all the rage at the time   :roll:

I like that they put a good C64 game at #100.  The Black Gate belonged on there somewhere.  However, aside from those, I'm not super-impressed with the list.  Pilot Wings may have been a pretty neat Super Nintendo game, and there was that certain Nintendo-esque charm to it, but what they were going for was a flight simulator that used Mode 7 graphics, and the result was a cheap knockoff that wouldn't impress anyone who had played an actual flight simulator.

Great game. Also featured fairly open gameplay, you could tackle missions in different ways, kind of the FarCry/Crysis vibe.

Why no Bomberman 2!  40K Dawn of War series (Yeah it's worth top 100).

Mild derail.  How many expansions to Dawn of War?  I have the original box but I'm not sure how many other boxes I need to buy.

Game had alot going for it that's for sure.  Customizable weapon loadout for the entire squad.  Good mission variety too, don't remember getting stuck in a rut of same ol same ol.  The mission to hi-jack one of the enemy armored suits was just about as intense a mission as anything in recent memory. 

Crap, now I gotta get a damn dos box running, maybe play through Privateer 2 again too (yes I loved the sequel damnit and it's not like they make any space sims anymore, fuckers). 

Winter Assault & Dark Crusade.

2 Boxes. Should be a gold or platinum or collection or whatthefuckever also that probably costs less than buying them seperately.

I forget, can you pause and give orders (Bioware style, I guess we'll call it?) in DoW?

Zet: get Ultima 7 and 7.5 up and running on that dos box. I should dig mine out, it still has everything installed, saves and all. I think it needs a sound card, though...and of course it's the Season of Motherfuck Invasion, so not for a while...

Yes, to a limited extent.  You can pause and give single build commands or single attack commands, but you can't chain them together like you can when time is flowing.  The only thing you can chain while the game is paused is move commands. 

Fuck you guys, Baldur's Gate Saga. Where was the PC RPG genre before the first game came out (save Fallout)? I remember it being near the dumpster.

Also, Fallout. I also put FFT on there, but I'm odd.

Due to Aperture Science Regulation, you have to list Planescape: Torment before Baldur's Gate. This isn't about popularity. This is about quality.

Can I use both?

Baldur's Gate for rezzing the genre, PS:T for Invading our Motherfucking?

What about using Exult?  Its designed to run Ultima 7 and Serpent Isle under Windows/OSX and such.   And to make em nicer for modern folks.  And no Voodoo memory madness.

If you are going to run Ultima 7, you have to get Exult.  There is no other reasonable way to do it, plus you can see to the fucking horizon.  :awesome_for_real:

Liie schild said, the Must Play list isn't about popularity, rather about games that were true Moments in Gaming History.  If you were making a college course, let's say, like a gaming version of Film Appreciation.  Which would probably leave Baldur's Gate out.  Not sure, my film teacher had me watch Roger & Me so there's probably a lot of leeway.  BG could have made the PC RPG more popular, I'm not sure there, but I think before then it was stuff like Ultima VIII and Might & Magic VIII.  I wouldn't recommend those at all.

Civilization. And Nethack. Core designs of much that follows.

Civ II was better, and I think the rogue-type games peaked with Nethack 3.2 , but that's just nitpicking.

I'd agree with Nethack.  People need to play it at least once.

freespace 2?

I see nothing from the * Quest series here. (King/ Space/ Police.. I only played a few so I can't speak as to which was 'teh best.')

Also missing are more flight/ space combat games (I nominate TIE Fighter)

I also think Civ II was the best of the series. Brian Reynolds ftw (Colonization and SMAC both > Civs of their time, with great improvements that never made it back to Civ, goddamn Sid).

BG..Eh, I wasn't a big fan. Liked 2 alot, but the first one never clicked for me. But I also liked Ultima 8 (post jumping patch!).

Can't mention space games without Wing Commander. I always like to give honorable mention to Sacrifice, for having the best spell effects evar. Ultima Underworld, the 3d game real gamers were playing while kids were donking around with crappy Doom deathmatch headless chickenism. Battlefield 1942 for doing a large-scale combined arms battle right (BF2 made tons of improvements but also brought in twitchier bunnytard gameplay). GTA is another amazing series.

Since nethack was mentioned, I'll toss in the old mainframe version of Adventure/Colossal Cave. Sure, I've played Zork, but it's not the real deal. Adventure has a hold on me because I could only play it when I went to work with my grandfather and he had lots of meetings, I'd log into a terminal and run through a game. I don't think I had save privs, so I had to start from scratch every time and I'd print out my results to study until next time I could play. The SA loved having his big central printer clogged up with my game when they were running payroll or something important ;)

On Exult. Sure, I've used it and it's great. But I also have my 486/100 loaded with 16MB RAM that runs it great, voodoo MM or not. I think I've still got my eight or so System Shock disks lying around. Also treasures of infocom. Someone mention retrogaming after the holidays when this bountiful release season is behind us!

These are some of the games that friends and I played endlessly in thier day, and everyone should have had the chance to try.

Utopia (Intellivision)
Archon (C64)
M.U.L.E. (C64)
Paradroid (C64)
NHL 94 (Sega)
Earl Weaver Baseball (PC)
Hockey League Simulator (PC)
Empire (PC)

These are all games I'd likely still enjoy today.

I'm in the Wing Commander camp here too... Tie Fighter is cool too, but it's just an offshoot. I don't really care about any other space games though. It's the dog fighting aspect that's thrilling. Don't really care for trading.

 :heart: Archon. Played that to death on my buddy's Atari 800, and later on my C64.

Pure Love.  This game so Invaded my motherfucking.  I still boot it up every now and then.  If only the campaign wasn't so bloody short.  There was supposed to be a Freespace 3 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/FAQ/general.html)...

I think the rogue-type games peaked with Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction.

Along with Diablo 2 and in the turnbased category, it would be epic failure to not include Shiren the Wanderer. In fact, I'd say Shiren is more important than Nethack on this list. If you haven't played it, you simply can't know why.

I disagree with that opinion. Diablo is dumbed down in gameplay and possible interactions with the environment, and the real-time component takes away battle options.

It evolved Roguelikes into another category and is important in its own right. But not as a Roguelike. It plays completely different.

The game I just listed, Shiren, takes Nethack to a new extreme. It's also a lot more intuitive. And imo, harder and less absolutely ridiculous. There's one coming out for the Wii (and the DS). I will play both until the consoles DIE.

Good to know, I will look into that once (if) it reaches my neck of the wood. Yes i'm still mad for never being able to secure a copy of Etrian Odyssey.

You want me to get a copy and mail it over the ocean?

You know, I never thought about direct importing it because our import taxes would likely eat me alive. But that might just work if customs doesn't get too noisy.

I'll just turn the cover inside out if you don't mind it being open and call it a review copy. ^_^ Value: $0.00

There is only one game I play (and beat) at least once a year, every year...Crono Trigger.  I used to be the ultimate FF6 fanboy, but the story really flags in the world of ruin (still the best video game villain evar, though).

Crono Trigger is immensely enjoyable each and every time I play it.  Besides BG2, I can't think of any other RPG from now until then that is even close to being as good.  Its all about five minute animations to let emo kids call comets from the sky now. 

But what about...umm...Jagged Alliance 2?
I still play it. It's got personality and a dedicated mod with no high hardware demand.

Jedi Knight series was pretty shiny cool that time as well.

Gah, most of the low hanging fruit's been picked. From a "Game Appreciation" course standpoint I'd add SMB3 (shocked that's slipped by), Disgaea 2, SMAC, and Tribes.

Personally though I'd definitely have: Klonoa 2, FF5, KotOR, Rise of Nations, you almost have to put a GH game up there too, and UT is another series that needs a mention up there. There are people here that are much better versed in fighters that definitely need to throw some names out.

Tribes!  Good catch.

Nethack is good, but I've always felt that ADoM's (http://www.adom.de/) balance and general aesthetic is better.  Nethack only pulls out ahead in the 'crazy situation you didn't expect' department.

I had a blast playing the first Quest for Glory.

Loved that series.  I must have finished "Quest For Glory 2: Trial by Fire" about 6-10 times and all the other games in the series (except the last one) at least three times.  Dragon Wage was a bit of let down, though, I didn't finish it once.

Obviously, I'm just about the biggest BG fan around here.  :grin:

I'm wondering what kind of games you guys would put up for the beat 'em up genre. I know something like Super Battletoads or Double Dragon and such are easy choices, but I loved me some Streets of Rage (specifically 2).

Tri do you play the SNES cart, the PSone port, or a ROM? Used to have it in cart form but it went on an adventure to parts unknown and has yet to return. And the loading times on PSone before damn near everything seriously invade my mother fucking.

Mechwarrior 2 (NetMech specifically) would get my vote. It was the first real 3D game and First online game for lots and lots of people. Probably one of the first games to spawn organized ladders and leagues based around it and the base IP. Fighting for your Clan/Merc/State unit was infinitely more interesting then a random DeathMatch.

The Leagues really got in depth and complex, EVE before EVE really. Except all of the spreadsheet game play was actually done in Excel and our 100vs100 battles were decided by dozens of 2v2 and 4v4 matches, with map location based around the planet you were fighting on and your Mech choices limited by your sides faction and resources.


Probably one of the first games to really have a ModScene (especially If you include Mech2:Mercs) and it had it's own anti-cheat police program made for it. Also had a strong RP scene around it, people really got into character on the forums and in chat.

All of this happening at a time when to most everyone AOL = Internet, should net it a spot on the list I'd say.

I'm a great fan of Adom and I play it more often than Nethack at the moment, but I would still rank Nethack higher on the To-Play list. Its the better all-around package, and tile graphics help along on the first time player front.

Another game I would rank to drive a whole genre into a new direction would be Dungeon Master. The first 3D-RPG with direct interaction environment interaction.

Damn you.

I'm reading down the list and wondering at DM not being mentioned.  Finally, I thought, I'll be able to contribute.  They've forgotten DM !

Damn you.

Lords of Midnight.


Actually, Edited to Add :  If we're talking about games that you ought to play, you should probably stick the original Lands of Lore on there.  It took DM and simplified it while at the same time making it more complex.  A great game.  Get the one with the voice (like System Shock) and it's an even better package.

I never liked Dungeon Master.  Didn't enjoy it on the PC, got some modest amusement out of Theron's Quest on the Turbo Duo, and didn't get into whichever one got ported to the Sega CD.
Real time icky combat with ugly graphics and no character generation made me sad.  Eye of the Beholder kicked its ass.

Some games I would put on the list:  (* titles are ones that maybe should be more honorable mentions)  Im listing personal favorites not likely to be on any top 100 general list.
Atari Star Wars - Vector graphics arcade fucking PERFECTION.  Probably the best arcade game ever made.  Accessable, yet with a great difficulty curve.  Too bad its virtually unplayable on anything but an actual cabinet.
Ultima 5 - Best of the series.  Probably the first game to really try to do a living virtual world and do it well.  Clocks told time, seasons changed, and you could literally do anything anyhow and any way you wanted.  Sandbox gaming.  IN 1988!
 * Defender of the Crown (post Amiga versions..) - One of the first interactive movies.  And it was fun!  Mix Risk with cinema sequences and minigames and you have a winner!
Master of Orion 2 - There ARE NO OTHER CIV GAMES BUT MOO2.  The best exploration, tech research, civiization construction game ever made.  It also had an outstanding ship to ship combat system, something most other Civ games ignore.  Combat strategy mattered!
Adventure Construction Set - The best game construction set for non programmers ever made.  Easy and fun to use, and much more wide open than anything since.
* Phantasy Star 2 - Forget Sonic.  PS2 was the Genesis' killer app (until PS4 anyhow) for the RPG player.  Well written, great looking, and a complete revelation in early 1990.
Star Control 2 - Take Spacewar on steroids.  Add in an outstandingly well written and FUN adventure campaign in the style of Starflight on top.  Be totally awesome.
Pathway to Glory - The best turn based RPG/Tactics game since X Com.  Except nobody played it because it was on the N Gage.  A game and sequel worth buying the machine for.
* Wasteland - take Wizardry styled combat, put it in a top down post nuclear world.  Add in a decent level of freedom and options many modern RPGs don't have.  Get excellence.
* Wizardry Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord - Abusively hard by modern standards.  However, it was so well done it pretty much CREATED a modern standard to have alongside Ultima 1. 
* Ultima 1 - By modern standards its simplistic and dated, but alongside the above game, it created the RPG genre as we know it.  And its a heck of a lot of fun anyhow. 
World Class Leaderboard/Links - THE series of Golf videogames.  Usually years ahead of the competition, and done in a manner befitting the sport!  Possibly the best "realistic" sports game series of its time.

Which begs the question - when did you play Dungeon Master? When it was released its graphics were top notch. We are talking 1987 here. Of course, the PC port could have been years later and already dated.

Lands of Lore was an revolutionary step upwards, but I prefer to give credit to the parent of a line of games. Plus, it had quite some riddles going for it - I missed that somewhat in Lands of Lore.

Two more "must play" from the coin-op/computer crossover: Moon Patrol (http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=un4mTkNsBiM) (watch the C64 "longplay" you can spot on the right) and Punch Out (http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=BtTmIBQmTc8) (this is with the original coin-op sounds, which is also the best version: some arcade rooms were set-up with a monitor on the top, similar to Dragon's Lair).
----
While a LOT of horizontal scrolling games came out through the years, probably a lot better than Moon Patrol, I think Punch Out should be included among an ideal top 100 of all time. I think it's still the best boxing game ever, even tho "Final Round" (http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=jBx8hbhmYoM) comes close.

You have to bear in mind that the US computer market either missed out on a bunch of classics or had delayed ports because 'home computer' there meant "expensive ms-dos system with crappy graphics and sound".

Oh, and some proper home computer games that need to be on the list: Populous, Lemmings, Worms, Turrican 2, Elite, Exile, Alien Breed.

And of course the Great Giana Sisters.  :grin:

Syndicate? It was really spiffy the first time I played it, it's by Bullfrog.

I must say that, beside the AWESOME times I had playing them, I kinda "owe" a debt to the great "classics" of CRPGs (there are lots more than these, but let's say the triad: Ultima IV - Bard's Tale I - Dungeon Master), because I started learning english in a "playful" way thanks to them back when I was 5. My father, which is still passionate about videogames nowadays at 52, basically sat next to time all the time translating the conversations and what not in italian; so when I began studying english in junior school, I approached it with a not-so-serious and enjoyable manner.

But ok, that was on a more personal note :)

By the way, I updated the first message of the topic with the other two brackets IGN posted. I'll continue to do so 'til the first position: somehow I thought this was going to be a weekly thing so I didn't think about checking it out more often.

Hell, that deserves to be in the top 20.  Damn that game ruled.

There are minor games like the Exile series and other things by Spiderweb that I thought were amazing. Also, if we are talking about great predecessors of the genre, some sort of MUD would have to be thrown in.

Oh, yeah. Jagged Alliance 1/2. Great games! Putting the arab bomber with the wimpy medic was always fun, at some point tensions were sure to boil and he'd blow up the wimp. Goddammit, there's a game in need of a reskin.

I'd say Double Dragon because at one point it was the most played game in existence around here. There were two machines in town, both with different handling. My singer and I were kings of the bowling alley machine, some other guys ruled the supermarket machine.

But I would also add X-Men Legends 2 or Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Great Gauntlet descendants. I guess Gauntlet gets a nod, too.

Won't even bother to sift through that weak spam exhibit, but here goes my top 10 not in any order…

1. Nethack
2. Civilization (either Civ II or the 2+ year old patched Civ III)
3. SimCity
4. C&C the original
5. Age of Empires
6. Kohan
7. Road Rash
8. Virtua Fighter (2 or 3)
9. Paperboy (the original arcade version, yeah I'll get bashed for that)
10. Dominions 3

Gotta agree with C&C the original.  Fucking masterpiece that shitty RTS games these days can't even hold a candle to.  Including, oddly enough, the latest C&C games.

 :uhrr:

If I made a top 20 list or somethin', I'm sure half of them would be Adventure games..

Hmm, you have at least 3 RTS games in that list....

What? No one mentioned any of the Monkey Island-games yet? *Disappointed*

For beat 'em ups, I was tossing up between Final Fight and Golden Axe. I settled on Final Fight because it did a lot more interesting things and I don't think beat 'em ups have really improved from that point forward. Got better looking, sure, but I don't think the gameplay formula really moved on much or any new mechanics (i.e. wall jumps, special moves, throws, etc) were added.

From earlier, I'd go Paradroid 90 (Amiga) over Paradroid (C64) - it was just a smoother game and you didn't have to memorise the bot numbers.

2D platformers - well, Monty on the Run (C64) was a childhood favourite, but I think Bubble Bobble (arcade) is an essential inclusion. EDIT - on the subject of Monty on the Run someone has too much time on their hands (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYSbPthEfAg).

From the RTS perspective, Myth II (PC) had an awesome storyline and real feelings of tension when playing. You couldn't just churn out another unit - you actually had to manage the ones you had.

Deus Ex is an easy choice, as is System Shock 2 (both PC). So is CounterStrike (PC) for what it did for online FPSs.

Horror games - Silent Hill (PS) should be on any essential games list, while Silent Hill 2 (Xbox) is a little less certain. Clive Barker's Undying (PC) was a great horror / FPS mix, but I think I was more scared playing Fatal Frame (Xbox) (or at least had more jump starts from that one).

I also loved the Quest for Glory (PC) series. Also Wing Commander (PC) - the first one was the best, imo. Or at least held my interest the longest.

RPGs - I played Vagrant Story more than I should of and I still didn't max out my weapons and armour.

As I said, half of my list would be adventure games...

I might put Trust and Betrayal: The Legacy of Siboot on the "should be played" list, but not on the "all-time classics" list, if that makes sense. It was an interesting try to do something very different at an early stage of the evolution of digital games.

ROM.  I've never played it on the PS1.  Of course, I beat it in less than 24 hours and then delete the ROM from my computer, as federal requires.   :hello_kitty:

Interesting (?) bracket from 70 to 61: Wolfenstein 3D, Total Annihilation and Thief II (updated my first post).

Btw, regarding beat-em up, I'm torn between Final Fight, Double Dragon 1 and Golden Axe...hmm...

Can we consider good ol' Shinobi (great game, imo) a beat em up?

Heroes of Might and Magic 3 (compete edition, of course). Game was fucking epic.

Also, the Max Payne games. How many others have shamelessly ripped the bullet-time mechanics from these guys? And who has done it better (hint: no one).

Red Dead Revolver

...

Yes.

While I myself loved Red Dead Revolver, I'm not sure it's exactly the same thing (or at least I only remember it being mainly for duels).

Deus Ex earns a WHOPPING (:P) n.34 spot, followed by Fallout 1 at n.33. Meh.

Um, you could figure out that the list was going to suck from the placement of Quake 2 and Syndicate. IGN are duds, news at 11.

So when all this is over, someone's going to type up the list so I don't have to hit "next page" about a hundred times, right?

Check the first message of this topic :P

This thread is interesting cause there is a lot of good ideas bing thrown out.

I have to jump in on Beat-Em-Ups though. Cause I love those fuckers. Best brawlers for me are the Streets of Rage series, and Alien vs. Predator. We can throw in some Sengoku 2 and some Kunio Kun stuff.

I really don't think that Golden Axe, (God bless its soul) can hang with those games.

Double Dragon was way good, especially Super DD and Double Dragon Advance.

Gaurdian Heroes is up there too. (Saturn)

Shinobi is not a brawler. It is a side scrolling arcade action game. But I think that Shinobi 2 and 3 are WAY THE FUCK UP THERE in quality. Shinobi 3 was a goddamn monster. It was a great game. That is just a fantastic series. All the games were good. Even the Game Gear games. They were crazy hot. (Note the GBA shinobi doesn't count!)

Last. I fucking LOVE Red Dead Revolver. Seriously one of my favorite games. I played so much multiplayer on that game. It is really fun.

Now that's service!

Sadly, the genre stagnated…

Not sure if its been mentioned, but if i were to make a list, on the top somewhere would be

Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Underworld:_The_Stygian_Abyss)

A personal favorite of mine was Cadash. It was a 2D side scroller with RPG elements. The classes all played fairly differently and it didn't have too many fights where you were guaranteed to have to shove quarters in the thing. It was also one of the first games I saw to allow linking cabinets so four players could play with 2 screens.

Another game I'd put in my top 100 is Mutant League Football for the Genesis. That was a damn fine sports game.
 

Heh, I surely think so: "Ultima Underworld II: Labyrinth of Worlds" tops my personal all-time chart (but the first chapter was good too).

My two favoritest games ever.

IMO , the first chapter was the best. 2 was disappointing to me. BTW, anyone got a emulator running any of thies?

Regarding sports games, what do you guys think about Cinemaware's efforts? I only played TV Sports Football and Basketball, but I think the former was quite great. Am I also the only one in here who enjoyed the old "street" titles on C64? I remember countless hours spent on Street Sports Basketball.

A bunch of names that should be on any top 100 games list: Q*Bert, Gauntlet, Tempest, Jet Set Willy, Knight Lore, Elite, Populous, Game & Watch 'widescreen' Fire...

How many would argue against Starcraft being #1? I know this is a moley post, but I've never played such a polished game, ever. I still fire it up every now and then and marvel at its amazingness.

Starcraft has no business being number 1. That spot is reserved for things like Mario Bros, Tetris, Pac-Man, etc.

And that's not even because they're necessarily better games (though arguably, they all are), but rather because they changed the fucking world. S.Korea was already crazy before Starcraft. It didn't change much anything.

In fact, I wouldn't even put Starcraft in the Top Ten. Top 20? Definitely. Either that or Warcraft 2.

I guess you're right. I logged countless hours playing SMB3/SMB. Sometimes I forget where I come from and where games have been in the past.

I've got 4 days off work. I'm going to try and put together a top 100 for myself.

LOL, three or fours days ago I turned on Steem (Atari ST emulator) again, and actually enjoyed a lot re-playing Bombjack, Arkanoid and Pacmania.

Bombjack, specifically Mighty Bombjack is one of my favorite games ever made. I've been looking for a decent arcade kit of it for a while.

Also, Solomon's Key.

I think it would be cool if we all did like a top 20 games. I am sure we would get some surprises in there. We could try to say away from the whole, importance to the gaming industry /community and stay more at the personal tastes level. I would like to see that.

But with rules like, only 1 entry from a series perhaps?

I'd want to put SMB3 and Mario64 and possibly Zelda OoT and LttP in there. I've broken your rule twice already!

Ok. I'm just going to make the topic. two pms and a buncha ims have broken my shift key.

You know, I'm not that sure about that, it depends on the genre and on the series. For example, it's largely inapplicable for the Ultima saga, while it may be reasonable for other genres and series. I say leave it free.

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=11500.new#new <- JOIN IN THE DRAMA.

Neg.

You have to pick.

Super Metroid or Metroid
Half-Life 1 or 2
Final Fantasy IV or VI (or... VII?!)
SMB or SMB3

These will give me harder numbers to datamine as it makes the decisions more exact. People can look back and say, holy shit I picked SMBW over SMB3. Or, wtf? LttP was Better than OoT.

My entirely cliche list:

Thief
Dune2
Medievia (a MUD) - Of course this is impossible now. The MUD has changed so much and the old fun and population will never be recaptured.
Betrayal at Krondor
Syndicate Wars

STOP POSTING LISTS IN THESE THREADS, OK. THINK HARD, THINK LONG, HIT UP THE OTHER THREAD.

I can't remember 90% of the games I played a year ago (even the good ones) let alone all time.  I would need to find a list of games grouped by system that included screen shots so I remember wether or not I played it...

mobygames.com

Is this the official "WTF were you thinking???" thread for the top 20 lists now? Because I'm sure Moraff's World is going to get plenty of WTFs. :p

No, I'm making that thread later.

Starcraft isn't even a number 1 RTS, much less number 1 game.

Command & Conquer Red Alert and Age of Empires 2 are far more deserving.  Just because Korea loves it doesn't make it good.  They also really liked Lineage. 

Oh Age of Empires 2. How I loved thee.

I fucking hate Red Alert.

I think Starcraft is a great game but to be the best game ever you have to do a bit more to impress me than make minor refinements to an existing genre. It didn't invoke any special feelings in me. It's not the most fun game to play and it's not the most influential, even among RTS games. In fact I would claim that Starcraft carried very minor influence even among RTS games. You certainly can't look at it as any sort of turning point.

I guess flying, mobile buildings....warping in buildings...and some weird creeping terraforming as well as 3 different unit sets, each with unique attribute is not good enough?

Don't get me wrong, I love C&C the original, the FMV blew me away but rts genre hardly felt fresh till Starcraft came around.

It didn't feel fresh when it was actually new? What?

C&C the original was when it was new. War2 was when it was new. Dune 2 was when it was very new.. etc.

Red Alert and Dune 2000 and such weren't about when it was 'new'.

TA and Starcraft injected a certain newness to the genre when they came out. So did Homeworld. Ground Control also if you ask me, but it was never big enough to have much influence.

I cant think of a RTS before starcraft that had as much innovation in faction design nor had such awesome multiplayer balance. As single player games, sure, there are others. But SC was the multiplayer king for a reason.

Let's not even forget about the map editor that gave rise to DotA in WC3..I'm not a big fan of Dota but the UMS multiplayer games as marines vs everspawning zerg was fun shit.

I forgot Psychonauts :(

30 left, we'll see if IGN does too.

Top 30 with, among others, System Shock 2, Half-Life, X-Com, KOTOR and Metroid Prime.

Btw, in the other topic, I saw nicer lists than "WTF" moments. Not bad.

I think one problem that's going to crop up is that games within the same IP are going to take one another's votes when the IP is the primary thing we're voting for rather than the particular game in the line.

As in, everything in the SMB line might be bumped off the Top 20 just because everyone's voting for different games within the IP. Same with Zelda and Final Fantasy.

As it stands now, the only two strong front-runners I see are X-Com and Planescape. So much love for X-Com. <3 <3 <3 EverQuest/UO/WOW are gonna be doing HARD JOCKEYIN'.

I'm really disappointed that Dragon's Lair isn't getting a ton of traction. It was such a mindblower for the arcade generation. It was literally a laser gun amongst muskets. I -almost- !almost! included Time Traveler for the same reason.

I'm pretty sure the reason for the one-vote-per-franchise was so they could be total'd back up and it would be fair.

So the end tally will have things like:

Zelda (20 votes; 5nes, 15snes, 5wii) or something like that.

If you look at it that way Mario, Zelda and FF are doing quite well.

Yes otherwise it is extremely silly to have the rule about one vote per franchise if you are going to tally the games individually rather than as franchises and have 3 different Mario games split the vote.

That said it will be interesting to see the breakdown in an individual franchise.

The point was for people to make hard decisions, pick a favorite from a series, and move to the next.

The diversity will smooth things out in the end.

If you compile a list of most popular games that list will be totally invalid, given that you artificially forced some games off the list. I might have 3 Mario games as my top 3 games of all time and you compiled list will not reflect that.

Most popular game or franchise where appropriate is the only way to perform a ranking. You have to count different games in the same franchise as one vote for the franchise as a whole or a tally is meaningless.

It doesn't matter from the persepective of just having fun goofing around with rankings but you can't present it as a definitive list because your rules are skewed to under-represent games from popular franchises. That's just simple math.

It won't? YOU'VE SEEN THE LIST? How much for a trip in the time machine?

It's not going to be definitive list anyhow because of all your fuckers who keep listing WoW and other shit! :)

Hellgate invades the motherfuckers  :hello_kitty:

I had to leave Fallout 2 behind. FF IV got left by the road too. 

IMO, it makes for more interesting and diverse lists instead of resembling fanboi vomit. I don't think this is even about crowning a champion, so who cares if Mario 3 doesn't win because you actually liked Mario 64 better but couldn't list both and other people had to make similar choices and the moon was full when you chose so technically it didn't count.. BLAH BLAH BLAH. Fuck, we all know the restrictions so we all know how to interpret the data. 

Anyhow, we're going to have a specific list commentary thread coming up soonish according to the thread.

Starcraft and Doom don't make it to the Heavenly Top 10. Tie Fighter gloriously at n.12. Ms. Pac-Man munches in.

I think it's bullshit that Tie Fighter gets that high. It brought nothing new except "Star Wars", and owes a lot to the WC games. Hell, even Luke Skywalker himself agrees.

[edit] I should probably stay silent until I see a top 10 though...

Lego Star Wars is more fun than Tie Fighter.

I see there are quite a few Fallout 2 and Diablo II on there.  The fact D2 is beating out D2LoD concerns me somewhat.

I doubt some people are making a distinction between the two.  I'm not sure I would have if I had put down D2.

I'm one of the only people I know that really loved D1 but can't stand D2.

 

Me too.

I disagree with what you said.

I noticed someone put up a spacehulk 3DO game. I never knew it existed, I've played and loved the tabletop version. Now I need to find an emulator and try it out.

That game was ace - I think it was also on the PS1 as well. You could switch from a tactical overview mode to first person view from any of your marines. I played it so much.

That Space Hulk game was originally on the PC.

Part of my concern.  I recall Diablo II being disappointing yet fun, but the expansion was tasty.  I was even tempted to specifically call out Diablo II: Lord of Destruction v1.10, but I'm weird.

No love for Commander Keen?  Used to love that game.  Best 2D platformer after Mario.  :heart: in my opinion.

...wait.  Anyone ever play Commander Keen? :awesome_for_real:

Yeah I referenced the entire DII corpus as one game in the same way as I meant Dawn of War with Winter Assault and Civ IV with Barbarians when I mentioned those games. Expansions are part of the core game and shouldn't be considered as separate entities - especially with regard to MMOs.

There are 3 commercial Space Hulk games.
The original DOS game that used Dark Angels' Deathwing Company
The Windows 9x, Saturn, 3D0, and PS1 game that used the Blood Angels
A Cell Phone game.  Apparently only one to have an actual turn based just like the boardgame mode.

I remember an old Amiga game that was a direct port of the board game - complete with dice rolling animations and everything. This would have been about 70 billion years before anyone owned a cellphone so it's likely that the cellphone game is in fact a port of that game into Java or something.

Yeah I played the Blood Angels version on 9x Windows, that was good times.  It was just you versus 'steelers right? 

D1 > D2:anything

Diablo2 was so graphically dissapointing to me that I could never get that fired up about it.  I would still go play it from time to time if I hadn't lost/broken my discs.  I still have my D1 disc in its original jewel case.

Put me in the camp that loved D1 and couldn't even be bothered to finish D2, even bought the expansion in the hopes it would change my mind but just no dice. 

I played Commander Keen! Good times... but not top 20 material.

Commander Keen was a personal choice.  One of my all time favorite games growing up. 

Never liked it.

Star Control 2 is doing surprisingly well, and I've seen Master of Orion 2 a few times as well. I see a lot of 2's in general. Second time's the charm I guess.

Of all the platform games I remember as a kid Commander Keen was ok. Captain Comic was better (http://www.dosgamesarchive.com/download/game/136). But I hate platform games for the most part. So neither got in my top 20.


Diablo 2 was awful if you ask me, and Diablo was ok just fun. So I guess I'm of similar feeling too. But without much initial love for the whole genre. Give me Nethack or Adom any day.

I'm amazed at how many people can't actually read the instructions for the contest.  It's a short list people, with the main one being:

GAME NAME DASH DEVELOPER DASH SYSTEM DASH RELEASE YEAR OPTIONAL COMMENTS

As a tech guy, instructions like that are very important, since it allows you to sort and collate lists with scripts instead of doing it by hand. Since he put IMPORTANT by that specific instruction, I fully expect people not following that format to not be counted.

That means no numbers in front (it's not a numbered list), no "Game name (developer)", or any other odd deviations. Also, if you're lazy enough that you can't even be bothered to look up the relevant information on the games on your list, I'm not sure you even deserve to be counted anyway. It's a speed bump, a curb that denotes a bare minimum sort of effort on your part.

Heh, thanks. Didn't notice my format was off.

Your format is still off. I said to put the comments at the end. Basically, that list thing is going to be a MONSTER SIZED PAIN IN THE ASS because people just can't f'ing read. I hate that. Should've made an online form.

I actually said even less than that:

I fixt mine, can I have a cookie?   :pedobear:

So I split my paragraph up.

If you feel the need, Schild, edit the stuff out of my list. :hello_kitty:

No, I think you will.

It's not a fucking job, it's something for fun. As I already pointed out the rules make it unscientific so forgive me if I'm too lazy to look up the dates so that it's easier to compile a meaningless invalid list.

If you want something really scientific I have two suggestions:

1. Don't introduce arbitrary rules the invalidate any ranking.
2. Create a web form for people to fill in to deal with formatting issues.

Guess what? I don't feel like looking up exact dates, and I numbered the list so that I could keep track of the numbers. Cry me a river.

Hey, I said the dates and developers and such were optional.

I am looking at things like trends in playing habits and favored developers. But I don't want those favored developers to come from nostalgic bullshit, like if someone bought Mario Sunshine adn just thought it was the bees knees. I want them to pick a Mario. Because honestly, you'd think most would have one on their list and it would still be one of the most popular series listed. Even without doubling up on Mario World and Mario 3.

You are thinking of a different game, Space Crusade.  It had dice rolling animations and is the same basic concept.  Except its not Space Marine Terminators vs Genestealers. Its standard marines vs Necrons, Chaos, Orcs, and Genestealers.  Cept the Necrons were known as Chaos Androids back then...  Ive got that one too.

I see Psychonauts didn't make the list.  I suppose i can sympathize seeing how I forgot to add it to mine, too.

10. Resident Evil 4
9. Final Fantasy III
8. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
7. Super Metroid
6. Half Life 2
5. Super Mario 64 SMB3 should have been here.
4. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
3. Civilization II
2. Tetris
1. Super Mario Bros.

Not a bad performance for a top ten from IGN.

Tetris? Really?  Don't get me wrong, I love the oldschool as much as the next guy, but I just can't see tetris being the second best game ever.  Galaga is infinitely more fun than tetris, although it won't help you organize your closet.

That's the trouble with Top x lists - "best in what way" remains an unanswered question.  If I had to guess. I'd say a lot of Tetris's #2 position came from, "OMG, remember when that was the game everybody played?  Yeah, Tetris is great."

Tetris is still fantastic. There's a reason I got the NAOMI board for my arcade machine.

Tons of people I know play Tetris on their cell/ti-83/insert_random_electronic_here.

I'd say it's still that game people love to play. It's just goddamn fun.

Now if I could invent a Pachinko game coupled with Tetris....  :awesome_for_real:

That's the same top 10 list as every other top 10 list.

 :uhrr:

I don't have a problem with the top 3 - Civ 2 should be there. Beyond that though - Four Zeldas, two in the top ten. Two entire games that appeared on the C64 that I can see in that list, and neither of them is M.U.L.E. This list fails.

Let's have freak children together.

'Freak' was just the word I was looking for.

M.U.L.E. remains awesome, if only because of the smooth gameplay mechanics.  I'd say obsession about it was unhealthy, but for a long time I had an avatar of a far more obscure game (http://www.answers.com/topic/psi-5-trading-company-game?cat=entertainment).

I played a game like that that was called Truckin' USA or something. I forget. It was like 1994 on old ass IBM computers.

1994 IBM? Which means you missed :heart: this :heart:  (http://www.intellivisionlives.com/bluesky/games/credits/imagic.shtml#truckin)?