f13.net

I didn't see that anyone started this, so what the hell.

Chelsea got quite a gift from the ref today with that questionable penalty kick.

We had left the conversation in the Fantasy league discussion, but this will get a wider audience.

To sum up:

Fucking Spurs.

God damn spurs.

Thank Christ, about time Spurs.

Also, Beckham threadjack repeated, for no other reason than it was the most entertaining game I saw this weekend. And again, entertaining, not best played.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt1vioaJYBo

Don't I know it. I was screaming at the TV. What the fuck was wrong with that ref? He was fucking awful, is what. He got card happy and just couldn't stop himself. Liverpool outplayed Chelsea plain and simple. Of course, once Chelsea got that gift pen, they got up to their usual douchebag tricks of pestering the ref every single time the whistle blew. But how telling is it that on the supposed foul that led to the penalty, not even Chelsea were arguing for the pen? Hell, the only person on the pitch who thought it was required was the goddamn ref. Btu at least Torres scored that goal, which was fucking fantastic. If you haven't seen it, you should, it was a great sign of things to come.

Man City beating Man U? That's so lovely. Guess without Ronaldo or Rooney, they really are an average team, which is quite strange considering how much money they piled into Nani and Tevez. 1 goal in 3 games is brutally bad for them.

Arsenal is looking particularly vulnerable in goal. In the both their games, Lehman has let in some seriously soft goals. The one against Fulham was a goddamn crime, and the one against Blackburn he should have had without trouble.

I guess all Sven needed was a few less Brits on the team.

In Man Utd's defense they are without Solkjaar or whoever you spell it Saha hell they dont even have Smith anymore.  Its not just no Rooney its no strikers period.

Nani wasn't supposed to be starting until after xmas and Tevez will take some time to settle like he did with West Ham.  Do I think they can contend for the title after dropping 7 pts in 3 games?  Not really.

It should be really fun to see that squad in the Champion's League if they already know the league is out of reach though.  I wonder what kind of odds I could get right now on them winning it.

So who wants to give odds that Arsenal drops out of the top 4 this year? With the shaky way Lehmann is playing, it's a wonder they haven't lost both their games. However, I don't see many credible challengers. Bolton has been total shit. I thought Everton might have been in there with the way their offense was clicking, until they ran up against Reading. Tim Howard vs. Marcus Hahnemann was a damn fine game. It should have been Tottenham challenging Arsenal, but they've already shown that without Dawson and King, their defense is awful. Could Newcastle have gotten that much better from Big Sam's influence?

And does anyone think Man City has what it takes to contend the whole year?

It may be more than two of the usual suspects out of contention.

But it's a marathon, not a sprint, that's the thing that kills teams.

Honestly I like Arsenal this year.  Lehman is a crazy bastage but they play the best football in England and have only gotten younger, faster and more talented over the last two years from where I'm sitting.

This thread isn't about Eastern Plaguelands?

*Goes and wikipedias EPL*

Well, man utd is gonna face spurs next. It could be their first win of the season, thinking of just betting on that. But will see the injury list before doing so.

Spurs will win this one just to fuck with their fans.

They play pretty football, but not the best football. They have serious problems with heading balls in the box, and they still look for the perfect pass too much for my liking. They lack a killer instinct. Chelsea is the only team in the top 4 I see with that killer instinct SO FAR, the ability to just turn it on and put an opponent down even when they are behind.

I forget, are Spurs playing at home or at Old Trafford? If it's at home, I give it a 50-50 chance at a 0-0 draw, if it's at Old Trafford, I'm thinking 1-1 or 2-1 Man U.

It's at OT.

Probably a win for United, but I'll watch all the same.

It's sunday, FYI.

Well said.  Watching Arsenal move the ball down the pitch is the closest a Euro team gets to Brazilian precision passing.  Lehman needs to get his head together if Arsenal wants to make a run this year.  He's solid until some constant pressure is applied or a goal is scored against him.  After that he looks like his brain goes on vacation.


Aye.  As noted in the postgame show that call was in effect a 6 point swing in the standings.


On a side note.  Is La Liga and the Bundesliga not welcome in this thread?  EPL is probably the most well known league but frankly I can't agree they have the best futbol. 

I would welcome it, I can't get anything but Seria A & EPL on TV myself so I would love to hear about La Liga and hell even L1 (the French one) in this thread.

By "best futbol" do you mean club strength or entertainment value for spectator?

Since I got all these soccer channels (FSC, Gol, and another that escapes me at the moment), I've enjoyed watching all the different leagues and I would put EPL at highest level, though I confess I'm not much of a soccer aficionado, it appears that after World Cup competition, the best of the league play is EPL where MSL is like near the absolute bottom of the list (and I hate watching American soccer matches on painted American football fields…). Bundesliga and Spanish leagues (as well as all the South American leagues which are very fun to watch…) are good too. The Italian league (at least in terms of style of play), I not so enamored with…

I'm not too familiar with Le Championnat other than they are renown for low scoring affairs, even by soccer standards.  However with players like Ribberi, Henri and others populating Euro leagues, not to mention their World Cup performance they can hold their own.  Same for Serie A in Italy.


EPL is definately top tier but personnally I don't see them being head and shoulders above the Bundesliga and definately not above La Liga.  Serie A in Italy also can compete.  Club strength in all of these are on par with each other in their top 10 clubs.  There are a hanful of really, really good South American clubs who basically buy players from competing clubs that pose a threat.   The clubs from, say, Paraguay can't compete salary wise with the SA powerhouses.  I completely agree about watching MSL on painted fields, it sucks.  I might break down and get Setana this season, I think that may be the channel you are talking about.  It's $15 monthly on DTV.  I've got FSC and GOL which is decent but Setana offers alot of matches.

Setanta is WORTH IT. I ditched HBO for it and have never looked back.

As for leagues, I think La Liga probably has the "best" league, in terms of quality of football, followed by EPL and Bundesliga in that order. The Spainish game is usually just so free flowing but not because of poor defensive play. The players are top-drawer for the most part, even down into the mid-table. EPL is second, IMO, but is still my favorite league for a whole variety of reasons, the main one being Liverpool. EPL is also a lot more physical. The Bundesliga has some decent quality, but is hampered by a lack of creative play from many of the sides. I fear for my Werder Bremen side this year, because without Klose (and with Frings being down for a month), they just don't have a guy to get the ball in the net consistently. Sanogo looks decent, but he's not even half a Klose. I actually rank the Scottish Premier League alongside the Championship in quality and entertainment value (both are shown on Setanta). The Champsionship last season was just a fight from start to finish, and it shows in the sides that got promoted. The SPL is just a physical league, lots of hard tackles, small pitches but some quality as well.

I don't watch Le Championat, and Italian style defensive 4-5-1 football bores me to tears. The MLS is definitely down there in terms of quality, with lots of the games looking like a "Chinese fire drill" because of poor defensive and possession play. But I watch because it's my country, and I want football to gain a little respect here. Beckham's presence sure will help.

I warn you, though, if you go for the Setanta and have a Tivo, prepare to while away many hours watching the footie. I can easily manage 7 games a weekend, with some bleedover into the week from the MLS and SPL matches.

The official UEFA rankings can be found here...

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2008.html

Germany really has fallen away in the last few years, probably not least because their TV rights are all fucked up and the the winner of the Bundesliga takes about the same as last place in England.

The Spanish, Italian and English leagues largely stomp on everyone else, which is best amoungst the big 3 is debatable, personally I don't think the Italians have the depth of clubs that Spain and England have, but at the top end you can't squeeze a cigarette paper between them.


Romania have been growing surprisingly strong lately.

Sold me on Setanta, calling after the ENG vs. GER friendly.  My Tivo will finally get some use. 

I agree on the MLS.  My wife gets tired of me yelling things like "Pass it, don't just kick it you fool!"   

I caught the recap of the SWE vs USA friendly.  Defense sucks.  Offense anemic.  Howard in goal was a bright spot.  Speaking of 4-5-1.  I'm still bitter USA went with 4-5-1 in their last World Cup game.  They needed 4 goals  (and some outside help) to have any chance to advance and they still wouldn't put in the extra striker.  As it turned out even if they'd scored four they wouldn't have gone on but damn, at least give yourself a fighting chance.


eldaec -

Never seen that before.  I like the modifiers like AC Milan losing 2 points for "crowd trouble" in 1995. GOIng to have to digest this after the game then get back :)


edit: eldeac posted sametime I did, edited instead of going for post count +1.

GAH!  Spoilers, hellooo?!    :-D

Sooo... are you saying I don't need to watch it or... ?

DVR'd both the ENG GER and SWE USA action for after work.  (west coast)


Oh, and I've been drooling about Setana since I found out about all the stuff they show that FSC doesn't.  But I don't think I'm ready to ditch the whole otherwise sweet cable package I'm getting for a dish just to be able to get Setana... give me a few years to stew on that one; and hopefully my cable provider will get wise in the meantime.  And FSC is pretty good with the EPL stuff.

Damn sorry Mr_Peach.  I'll keep that in mind

FSC carries about 4 EPL games a weekend, Setanta does another 4. With both packages, you can generally see every single big 4 game, and a good selection of the other teams each weekend. And I think only Directv carries.

Plus, SPL and more international Europe matches. And Le Championat and the English Championship, and sometimes even English League One and Two. And FA Cup ties, and UEFA Cup and Champions League as far back as the group stages as well.

Fuck, they should be paying me for the good things I'll say about Setanta. It also carries Rugy and Australian Rules Football if that's your bag as well.

If you're not demanding  absolute perfection and had a fast connection, Setanta broadband pumped out to a standard definition TV does well for me. It's a little washed out and you get  a little bit of the old artifact bug from time to time,  but  if the alternative is no Setanta, I'd at least try it out.

Setanta has also upped their quality of production and gotten some new ads as well. Good for them.


Going back to yesterday, the US had two significant problems to go with some promising things in the midfield and goal.

We need a striker. Now. I think it's time to blood Altidore. Get him in against Brazil. in the US.  Maybe even the European swing  later this year.  Even still, we're going to have severe trouble with a team like Sweden with  6'.5" guys on the back line.  I'd like to point out that one of those 6'5" Swedes also outran "Speedster" DMB in game situations.

Second, if Jonathan Bornstein is our one great hope for left back, we're truly fucked.

It's not always the coaches fault.


As a side note, Spurs seem to be handling their vaunted run for  Champions league in  true Spurs fashion, with a shaky start and a Coach looking like he's going to get the sack from a backstabbing front office.  Also, Robbo is  shit, but stands up for his club.

The USA team's biggest problem is going to be on the back line for quite a while. We have two great goalkeepers in Howard and Hahnemann. But just looking at the MLS, we have no Euro quality defenders, which is why the MLS suffers as a league. Defense is just terrible, and it's why Becks got 2 assists against the Red Bulls the other night. MLS and American defenders have NO CLUE how to handle that level of quality service.

Yet.

As for strikers, yeah we need to put Altidore in there with Eddie Johnson. Those two could burn the eyebrows off most defenses.

Did they play Justin Map(p?) for 90 minutes?  If not fucking shame on the US soccer org as usual, he was the only interesting new player besides that guy who did a good imitation of a solid center attacking mid throughout the entire gold cup.

I didn't watch any of the friendlies myself, but LoL@England.  God I can't wait for them to draw Israel at home and be truly fucked out of Euro '08.

Justin Mapp should be playing A LOT more for the US team. They didn't get him nearly enough minutes in the Copa America or the Gold Cup. Faehlhaerber (or however it's spelled) is decent, too.

Copa America showed why Mapp shouldn't play more  for the Nats.

His tricks work well against second string Danes and  CONCACRAP, but he was getting owned by los Sudamericanos.

Here is the US dilemma:
1: The standard is now set, Qualification to the world Cup is no longer  sufficient. We want advancement. and to guarantee a good shot at advancement means seeding, Seeding means we dominate  as much of the world as possible.

2:We're young. We're  thin and worse, we're losing top american prospects to other nations. I'm looking at you Mexico and Italy.

As much as folks like to rag on MLS, if you want the nats to ever mean anything, you better start hoping   the MLS academies start digging up good talent to fatten up the pool. That and the cool new school Brad Friedel opened up over here  and a dozen others like it.

Fortunately, good soccer talent can have a different body type and skill set from the other sports, so it's not like it's a total lost cause.

I think in about 5-10 years, you're going to start seeing a result from those academies. Soccer has gotten almost as big as football and little league for the young (pre-10 years old) kids, starting in the 90's, and those kids are about to become adults. The biggest hinderance is that high schools in many places don't have soccer programs.

Not EPL but...

Anyone watch the much ballyhooed L.A. Beckhams v. Chivas USA "Super Classico" (!!!) match on ESPN Soccer Night in America last night?  Boy, Becks sure got his side fired up with the nice stare-down at the end of the half; so much so that his side forgot to play any defense in the 2nd.  Most exciting part of the night was getting to see the end of the WNBA 1st round playoff game going into triple OT before they would cut over to MLS.

Back to EPL; looks like a good slate of games on FSC this weekend with Arsenal hosting undefeated ManCity, a good Everton team hosting Bolton and of course the ManU - Tottenham match on Sunday.  With lots of 'stars' like Berbatov, Ronaldo and Rooney all out the match still has a lot of significance as both teams are off to lousy starts.

As much fun as it is to laugh at the Galaxy, let's see their injury list.

OUT: DF Troy Roberts (R ankle); DF Chris Albright (R hamstring); MF Kelly Gray (R calf); DF Abel Xavier (L knee); DF Quavas Kirk (L foot);

PROBABLE: MF Cobi Jones (R hip); DF Kyle Veris (R hip); MF David Beckham (L ankle); FW Edson Buddle (L Achilles)

All four starters out. one backup questionable. One Defensive midfielder out.

Harmse has been moved from the bench to the midfield, because Becks doesn't play enough D right now.

Becks had to get Xavier to lend a hand second half. No anchor in the back against Galindo, Rastov, marsch and Klejstan? Hello 3-0.

A team with a thin d that gets hammered by the injury bug on their d line? Goodbye playoffs.

What is wrong with these pictures?

(http://www.soccer.com/bcast/soccasts/082407mlsposters/mlsposters.jpg)

Hmmm, I bet Landon Donovan is about ready to stab a motherfucker over that Galaxy poster.

The great irony is that unless the Gals get a second DP slot, Landon has to leave or take a massive cut in pay this year. Originally it was thought that Houston would be giving up the slot to their sister team, Now it appears that the Dynamo will do their own thing, leavng the gals to scramble. San Jose would be open, which would complete the circle, since LD left San Jose for LA because he didn't want to be out of SoCal.

Meanwhile Houston keeps on keeping on. Dallas signed Denilson as their DP.

The other thing wrong is there's no Luciano Emilio or Fred on DC Uniteds poster. Without them , United sucks ass.

I'm recording (vhs old skool) the Juve game on Saturday & the Utd game on Sunday, going to watch most of if not all the Arsenal and Blackburn games on FSC live'ish.

So fucking spoiler boxes on the Utd results at least until Monday heathens, also none of this Spurs gah ooooh  wooo DAMN edited posts stuff either, that counts as spoilers.  I'm going to try to stay away from the thread but I will want to post about the Saturday games since they are really interesting match ups that will tell us a great deal about the four teams involved.

Although Yakabu to Everton = I hope they challenge for a CL spot this year.  I already loved their team w/ Cahill and Arteta this only pushes them into super badass.  Which is surprising considering how much I hate English strikers, but Johnson is my favorite out of the bunch until I see this Bent kid do something consistently.

On another note...

Anyone been able to figure out why Villa is pussyfooting around so damn much this year in the xfer market?  I mean have they signed anyone but Harewood and Reo-Coker (both signings I like, fuck WHU that org is poison to players) this year?

Scouts honor, no spoilers here.

Hell make it like BigSoccer and have [R] in the supject ;)

Hope you all caught the morning game on FSC and are catching the afternoon game.  Great great stuff.

Second half of the later game was indeed fantastic.

I watched Liverpool lazily dominate Sunderland. It should have been a lot worse than 2-0, but the Reds floundered a bit without Gerrard.

Chelsea-Portsmouth wasn't quite as lazy, but neither side really put together much offense. Portsmouth needs to get Nugent in there more, and Benjani in there less.

Everton-Blackburn was a fun match, making me think Rovers are going to be much more important to the top half of the table than I thought they would be. McCarthy disappeared during the game, and Santa Cruz seems to be taking the lead. I think any hope of McCarthy repeating his goal-scoring form of last year with Cruz in there is a vain hope.

The ManU-Spurs match was fantastic. I swear Berbatov looks like he's about ready to shiv his midfield. They just can't get him any good service, something Darren Bent isn't going to help them with either. Was picking up a Nani too much for them? And it's a telling indictment of United's team that they barely managed one goal, and that from an absolutely brilliant strike from outside the box. Tevez is getting nothing into him without Ronaldo, and the team just isn't very threatening. Why can't Liverpool play them NOW?

Everton:  Seriously with Yakubu and Cahill playing for them I like them to comfortably pick up a UEFA spot.  They need to use Johnson differently though, he's a great spark plug but I really like him coming off the bench or being benched after 60 min.  He just doesn't have any real brilliance to his play.  Also Baines is going to have a great impact as anticipated by many pundits but I really don't trust their goalie, I can see why he didn't get that contract extension he wanted.

Blackburn:  Awesome uniforms, I'm putting on one order this week.  Also they played a great game.  Benni did get lost, although whenever he touched the ball he did something cutsey and his touches excepting 2 heavy ones were beautiful.  The problem was he just doesn't seem to know how to flow with the rest of the team.  If the manager is worth a damn he'll sort that out and if that happens watch out.  Blackburn should do some damage.  Sadly though I'm worried it will not get sorted out and Benni will have a wasted season not enjoying himself because he's not the type of force the game to come to him.

Arsenal:  LoL @ RVP, stupid Dutch fucker.  Cesc is the man though and that was a fun game to watch.  Honestly I'm a bit dissapointed in Arse.  Where the hell did Adebayor go?  Wasn't he starting?  I swear he was on the pitch for the first 15 and then he just went to the stands or something...

Their defense was messed up and I still can't really stand Hleb but I still think they play great football, too bad they didn't do much in the transfer market.

Man City:  I was immpressed, I've always hated city because baby blue is a fucking ugly color and they've always been such an ugly boring team last 2-3 years.  I'm still thinking they are a risk to fall apart but I wish them the best after watching them play.  Too bad Petrov isn't a little bit more skilled they should have gotten a 1-1 draw out of that game.

Man Utd:  We'll see how much Saha and Anderson help them, as long as they pick up 3 points they will be fine as Ronaldo returns after the Sunderland game and I've got a good feeling about that..

Chelsea:  At least Essien gets to play midfield again?  Seriously what a waste of talent this team is.  I wish they had loaned Sheva back to the Ukraine, woulda made the CL more interesting.

You don't trust Tim Howard? You should, you really, really should. He was money last year, pretty much neck and neck with David James for best goalie in the EPL. If he had the back 4 of a Liverpool, he'd be even better. His problem in that game was from Yobo's inconsistency. Everton with Yakubu and a healthy Cahill will be the one to challenge Arsenal for 4th place, IMO.


QFT. They spend WAY too much money on offensive guys, and not nearly enough on defense. Their back 4 is suspect even with John Terry in there, even worse without him. If they didn't have such a strong offensive streak, they'd be hosed. I'm surprised they haven't transfered Schevchenko out, he's going to be wasted with Drogba and Pizarro healthy.

Howard is the man, and  will definitely  do even better with a more solid Everton back four.

Spurs get Fulham next, If they don't get a result there, it's going to get decidedly ugly.

Yeah, I thought Berbs was going to burst a vein there; I gather the ref had enough of him too and issued him a yellow at some point.   I thought Bale was magnificent; his first start, hope not his last.  And obviously this was a ManU team w/o Ronaldo and Rooney but I thought they Spurs) played really well for most of the game.  Woe be unto Fulham next week.

I literally fell asleep watching the middle of the game. I nodded off on the coach, because it was so dreadful. I woke up again about 60 minutes in and finally saw a good match.

Berbatov is bailing on Spurs next year definitely. Maybe even winter. Hopefully he'll even come to Old Trafford, I'd like that a lot.

I forgot about Gareth Bale. Yes, this kid is golden. I watched him play for Southampton a few times last year, and you could tell he had the EPL quality. He's not much defensively, but damn does he have a great left foot and desire to get forward. Playing him in midfield was a great idea. I think Berbatov is going to get better, he just starts slow.

My bad about cracking on Tim Howard, I was thinking of the Fulham v Bolton game and Jaaskalinan for some reason, that guy is a pud.

Yeah Howard is a solid keeper dunno how I forgot when they were mentioning the two USA keepers fact every other minute until the game got going.  Oh, I know how I forgot its Monday and I'm tired as balls, fucking work...

Speaking of keepers, how fun was it when Man City's kid ran up and almost put the header end as the game ended?  He's fucking awesome, his dad was amazing too.  If you've never watched any history of football / world cup dvd sets you should.

Honestly I have no idea wtf you are talking about w/ Chelsea, we agree but for different reasons.  I think their defense is fine, esp if you factor in Essien as the greatest defense midfielder in football.  Terry is awesome in the middle (second only to Puyol in the world for my money), Carvalho is no slouch and Cashley Cole is pretty damn good when he's not being a bitch (read: almost never).

My issue with them is all the talent in midfield and attack that never results in good looking play.  Chelsea these days makes Liverpool seem exciting.  They get their goals through brute strength and overwhelming pressure.  Which is the type of play I can stand from top half England/German club sides but not a fucking roster with like 8 WC national team captains on it.

A new challenger has been appeared on the Tottenham Jol deathwatch. Incidentally, it's the same name that's now appearing very strongly in the smoldering ashen crater that is  the LA Galaxy.

This man:

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41767000/jpg/_41767336_klinsmann_getty300.jpg)

All sorts of wild crazy talk from LA. Dumping half the team, starting from scratch, removing of Lalas as well as Yallop (who used to be a decent coach)

Even trading Landon Donovan. Which suddenly makes all that talk from Landycakes wanting to head to England a lot more realistic. Maybe he could go to Fulham as well ;)

It's fun to troll the message boards and blogs of galaxy fans. Unlike Man U, who can calim with some realitisc conviction that they'll turn things around and  top the table when it's said and done, Galaxy fans can only choke on their own miserable fate. At least there's no relegation, or  we could have our American Leeds appearing right before our eyes.

A pity, that.

Essien's a GREAT midfield player. He's just not a great back, and too often Mourinho puts him in the back when one of his fullbacks or centre halfs sprains a vagina. Which happens all too often. Their entire back corps is fucking fragile as fine China. Terry is a great defensive player, but when he's not there, that back 4 loses its fucking mind. Watch the Birmingham game from the start of the season to see what I mean. Cole is a good defender, but he's a better attacker from that position. Maybe it's the fact that the Special One sends all the backs as far forward as he can, but they get beat on plays they shouldn't way too often. And Carvalho? He's not that fucking good by himself. He needs Terry back there or he forgets how to defend. Wayne Bridge is decent but he's either hurt or doesn't flash enough offensive skill to get Mourinho to play him. Chelsea is a worse team period when Essien is in the backfield, because he's such a huge presence in the midfield.

As for the Galaxy, that team is just awful. Beckham has brought their play up significantly, but outside of him, there's just not much there in open play. Landon has flashes of brilliance followed by bouts of invisibility. They are better when Cobi Jones and Xavier play, but pretty awful without them. Klensmann won't help, because they don't have enough good striking talent. There's no Klose in that team, no Podolski. LA should benefit from extra money off the Beckham ticket and merchandise sales, so they should be able to afford some good players. I really hope they don't shed talent, GM or coaches, just find some good talent and sign them. Who wouldn't want to sign to play with Becks?

Oh their all fucking bitchasses (esp Terry) and I'd take players like Dunn(e?), Ottl, Puyol & Vidic over them because at least I know my backline aren't fucking pansies.  Fuck I really liked Chimbonda and Primus last year for that matter.  Also everyone who plays for Italy's national squad is solid.  :-P

Essien is like Owen Hargreeves but with actual talent.  He plays smart and blunts and breaks attacks while controling tons of space and can slip into attack and lay the ball off well.  While Hargreaves just runs around w/ pace and makes ugly tackles and gets stuck in.  But can't find a foot to pass the ball with let alone find open space and do something useful on offense.

With Essien as a centermid playing a holding defensive roll and their actual starters behind him that's a formidable defense for my money is what I'm trying to say.

Chelsea is mindnumbingly boring to watch. For a team like that, with the star power they've aquired,  they shouldn't be.

I wonder who Roman will move for next? Schevchenko won't be staying. Heck, he's even being linked to DC United of all places. Ballack?  I see that team being in flux the next off season.

DC United? Schevchenko is too young to move to the MLS yet. :) Unless he goes to the Chicago Fire, in which case WELCOME! I'm surprised they haven't moved Ballack so far, other than he costs entirely too much for what you'll get in return. His best days are behind him.

You're right about Chelsea's play, they really are pretty annoying to watch. Everytime the ref blows the whistle, 5 guys in blue are camped up his ass. God forbid a card gets pulled out, we'll waste 5 minutes on the afters. For all the quality their players have, they are still irritating as hell.

No to the Fire, as they have their DP in Blanco.  He's picking apart the weaker teams, we'll see what he does against more solid defending.
 Her family live in the DC area. Schevie has talked about going over to America sooner rather than later in the same line of thought as Beckham. He's looking at starting his own Academy over here. United is the team with the deepest tradition  and history of actually doing something, albeit not a lot, outside of America.


There's a lot and I mean a lot of money to be made  in the Youth Soccer market in the States. Has been for a while.  But he may just do what Beckham did originally and set  that up and play in Europe. But I can't see him playing at Chelsea. It's not a good fit and he's being wasted there.

So I'm watching Arsenal vs. Sparta Prague right now on the internet. The game's pretty droll so far, but that's not my point. I'm actually watching it on the internet! A Swedish friend showed me this website (http://www.myp2p.eu/index.htm) that catalogs television streams from different channels around the world in a Peer2Peer setup. You can watch pretty much any game from any league, whenever it's on. Check it out. It's great for those midweek games, or ones you can't find on TV anywhere.

Champions League draw is on tomorrow. Did Chelsea get seeded this time, or will they get drawn with Liverpool again?

That website is extremely handy. So handy that I keep wondering when it's going to go dark.

Group A: Liverpool, Porto, Marseille, Besiktas
Group B: Chelsea, Valencia, FC Schalke 04, Rosenborg
Group C: Real Madrid, Werder Bremen, Lazio, Olympiakos
Group D: AC Milan, Benfica, Celtic, Shakhtar Don'tsk
Group E: Barcelona, Lyon, VfB Stuttgart, Rangers
Group F: Manchester United, Roma, Sporting Lisbon, Dynamo Kiev
Group G: Internazionale, PSV Eindhoven, CSKA Moscow, Fenerbahce
Group H: Arsenal, Sevilla or AEK Athens, Steaua Bucharest, Slavia Prague

Arsenal lucked out there.

CL picks, first I'm going to put the groups in order of strongest to weakest, then my predictions for who advances and who gets 3rd and goes to UEFA.

B:  Chelsea & Valencia, will come down to the games between Schalke & Valencia.
-Schalke to UEFA

A:  Liverpool & Marseilles are the obvious choices but I like Porto to keep this group interesting.
-Porto to UEFA

D:  Milan & Shakhtar I'm taking Shaktar as my surprise pick of the group stage.  The hoops are too damn inconsistent but could cost Benfica points, also I want to get on the Ukraine bandwagon sooner rather then later.
-Celtic to UEFA

E:  Barca & Stuttgart here's my other surprise pick, because Lyon hurt my feelings when they limped out of the CL last year after I had believed all the hype.  I poo poo French Football.  Plus you have to think somebody from Germany will represent and I like Stuttgart's chances the best.  Bremen's gutted roster and Shalke's harder group being the reason mind you, I haven't seen a lick of German football so far this year.
-Lyon to UEFA (sorry Rangers)

C:  Real & Lazio, I think Lazio plays best versus a Real Madrid team that loves to under achieve so I'm giving them the nod in a very interesting group but one with only one team (madrid) that can make an impact in the knockout stages.
-Bremen to UEFA

F:  Utd. & Roma, honestly I want to pick Roma to do well really badly after their great play until the wtf pwnage by United in the second leg of knockouts.  But I really like Sporting as well...
-Sporting to UEFA

G:  Internazionale & Moscow, although I'll be happy as long as someone other then PSV gets 3rd place and the UEFA cup spot.
-Fenerbahce to UEFA (if I was putting money on these picks I would have PSV overachieving and advancing to knockouts)

H:  Sevilla & Arsenal, this is a no brainer, I'm very happy for Sevilla that they will move into the CL.
-Steaua to UEFA


*edited meant the Rumanians to UEFA as Athens is already out once they play their second leg vrs Sevilla*

*edit #2 had G & H mixed up*

I think Porto are a stronger team than Marseilles. I'm looking for them to squeek by instead of the frogs. Admittedly, I've become smitten with Portuguese footballers since their run at Euro 04. It will be fun to see Cisse smack a few goals in against Liverpool, if he gets the chance.

Having watched Bremen twice this season, I think they might be lucky to make the UEFA spot unless they sign another goddamn striker. It isn't that they will get beat, but scoring is going to be a problem even against Olympiakos.

Fucking Valencia getting Chelsea in the groups sucks it, but I think they can beat Schalke or at least send Schalke to the UEFA Cup.

Porto will get through the groups over Marseilles. I just don't trust French football much either.

Celtic will get through the groups, as they are getting better than you think, but if they don't Benfica will be the one advancing, not Shaktar.

Group G is definitely the weakest, I think. For what I know about those teams, any of them or none could make it. 

Don't be so hard on Group G. Fenerbache is going to be hell to play at home. PSV tends to play at a higher level here and could make it on to the knockouts,  Haven't seen enough about CSKA to make this a solid prediction, but I feel it's going to be inter and probably PSV, with Fenerbache possibly sneaking on with one of those two getting the Parachute.

Man U is in a tough group. But Rangers? They're fucked.

Oh hey, Zat Knight got picked up for Narcotics distribution. I wonder how Villa feel about :that: signing?

Who's the current favorite to win it all and what're the odds they are giving?  I'm not sure what the good uk betting sites are.

Here's the latest odds from Coral.uk For the outright winner:

Barcelona   5/1
   
Chelsea   7/1
   
Inter Milan   7/1
   
AC Milan   8/1
   
Man United   8/1
   
Real Madrid   8/1
   
Liverpool   14/1
   
Arsenal   20/1
   
Sevilla    20/1   
   
Lyon   28/1
   
Valencia   28/1
   
Roma   33/1
   
Lazio   66/1
   
Marseille   66/1
   
PSV   66/1
   
Schalke    66/1
   
Stuttgart   66/1
   
Werder Bremen   80/1
   
Benfica         100/1
   
Porto   100/1

CSKA Moscow   150/1
   
Celtic   150/1
   
Fenerbahce   150/1
   
Sporting Lisbon   150/1
      
Besiktas   200/1
   
Shakhtar Donetsk   200/1
      
Olympiakos   250/1
      
Rangers         250/1
      
Dinamo Kiev   300/1
      
Slavia Prague   500/1
      
Steaua Bucharest   500/1
      
Rosenborg   1000/1
      
AEK Athens   2000/1
   

Lets get some random predictions in this thread so we can look back later and mock.

First, I still think Utd has a shot at the title and will make top 2 if they pick up another striker at some point. I think the top 4 will remain the same this year too. Talk of Arsenal falling off it just a little silly.

Man City will fall off in a big way. Sunderland will stay up. Tottenham will fail and have a new coach by Christmas (which I think is a bit unfair). Everton will possibly get 5th.

I've never rated Moyes, but it's time I admitted I'm wrong and that he's done a great job year in year out. If he can keep it up a little longer that might even start being able to get a few bigger names in and retain them. Imagine if Rooney had stayed with them all this time. The way I see it the only thing that saved Liverpool is Gerrard staying - they would be so much worse without him, not only on the park but in being able to convince players they had the talent to actually sign for them. If Everton had retained Rooney who knows how they might have been doing today.

My table is going to look like:

Utd (I'm a Utd fan)
Chelsea/Liverpool (can't split them)
Arsenal
Everton
Newcastle
Blackburn
Tottenham
Pompey
Villa/City/'Brough
Reading
West Ham
Sunderland
Birmingham
Fulham
Bolton
Derby

Big Sam has doomed Bolton.

Man U have an important season in Europe, if they don't make the final, or at least make the semi winning almost every match along the way, they are very unlikely to be pool A seeds next year.

Roma will be stiffer resistence than they were in the QF last year.

Man U and Roma have to be favorites as you suggest, but Roma top, Lisbon 2nd, Buccaneers off to the UEFA cup isn't out of the question.


I don't see Barca as even near favourites.

Last year's semi finalists, Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool, and Milan are crazy good odds.

I really have trouble seeing beyond those four for an eventual winner.

Sevilla at 20/1 might be worth a look as a team to come from nowhere.

HAHAHAAHHHH eat shit spurs!
fucking Robinson

That was pretty sweet goal by Diomansy.

It's always easy to spot a Gooner.

Tottenham van driver used to amuse himself by running over every Arse*** Fan he would see strutting down the side of the road in their ubiquitous red and white colours. He would swerve to hit them and there would be a loud"THUMP" and then he would swerve back on the road.

One day, as the driver was driving along, he saw a priest hitchhiking. He thought he would do a good turn and pulled the van over. He asked the priest "Where are you going, Father ?"
"I'm going to Mass at St Joseph's church, about 2 miles down the road" replied the priest.
"No problem Father ! I'll give you a lift, climb in !"

The happy priest climbed into the passenger seat and the van continued down the road. Suddenly the driver saw an Arse*** Fan walking down the road and instinctively swerved to hit him. But, just in time, he remembered the bloody priest, so at the last minute he swerved back to the road, narrowly missing the bastard. However, even though he was certain he missed the glory-hunting shite, he still heard a loud "THUD". Not understanding where the noise came from, he glanced in his mirrors and when he didn't see anything he turned to the priest and said "I'm sorry Father, I almost hit that Arse*** Fan"
"That's okay" replied the priest. "I got the bastard with the door !"



But yes, another day to hang the head. Jol will not be around much longer.

 :-D dead wrong. I hate England team mostly. Spurs have awesome attack, but their defense is just being let down by this fella at the moment.
But man, Liverpool really looks tempting to win the league, but no. Not this year. It can't be their year.

My apologies then ;) Their midfield is weak, especially with the injuries, and their D is becoming a joke without King. Who pretty much stays injured now. :(

Deja Vu?

How can you pin that loss on Robinson; those last two goals were uncanny... the deflection off of Rocha's leg and then that absurd bicycle kick both going in perfect arcs just over and out of Robinson's reach?  That being said, I'm pissed at Jol for taking his foot off the gas when we were giving Fulham more than they could handle the first 70 minutes and trying to 'play it safe' just to piss it away at the end.  The best defense for Spurs is a good offense and they looked great at times.  But Fulham got crazy shots to drop and ours were going off of the posts or being deflected by defensemen when the goalie was 15 yards out of position.  Gareth Bale continues to impress, doesn't he?

Taking a crack at lamaros' suggestion...

I don't think the Spurs are in ruins and will still finish top 6 and maybe still top 4 although they are definitely off to a bad start and probably just cemented Jol's fate for what that's worth.  (But then that's my team.)

Arsenal OUT of the top 4.

Sunderland stay up and Everton top 6 (agreeing with lamaros on both of those).

Derby County don't win a game.  :)

Pool
ManU
Spurs  :roll:
Chelsea
Everton
Newcastle
Arsenal, ManCity, Bolton and Pompey round out my top half.

I think Liverpool has a damn good shot to win the title this year. Two straight games without Gerrard, and yes, they were against newly-promoted sides, BUT... they took care of business. They MANHANDLED Derby. Meanwhile, Man. U. was lucky to score a goal against Sunderland. Man U will get better with Ronaldo back, but neither Tevez nor Anderson seems ready to step up and hold water for Rooney. It took SAHA to come in and give the team a lift.

I think with Yakubu, Everton is going to unseat Arsenal. Arsenal have played well, but Lehmann in goal is just unpredictable this year, and the guy they got playing there now isn't much better. The real tester will be how Arsenal plays against Liverpool and Chelsea. But Everton is crazy good defensively and Yakubu and Johnson seem to be a damn good partnership.

Gareth Bale is the real deal. Spurs, however, may not be. They started off like this last year, and if they kick Jol out, I'm not sure if Spurs will come back like they did last year as well.

David Nugent seems to have completely forgotten how to score goals since coming to the top flight. He looked lost against Arsenal. Maybe they should have sold him to Derby.

I don't know what the fuck has happened to Reading, they seem to have lost all nose for the goal as well. I really hope they don't fall down to the sophmore slump.

I've always rated Saha. People forget about him because he's injured so often, but he's the kind of player who works really well with Rooney Ronaldo and Giggs. If he can stay fit and string some games together it'll make a big difference to Utd retaining the title.

I kept saying how much I wanted to see Torres at Utd all last year and he's showing every indication that he would have been a great investment. Unfortunately they couldn't push the deal through last time and the Spanish and Liverpool connections got him over to the wrong team this year.

Arsenal is a really tricky one. Many people seem to think it's a safe bet to write them out of the top 4 this year with the departure of Henry and the trouble with Dein, but I think it's a lot of media noise. Henry was not that big a deal last year and they still found their place comfortably - he's always been over-rated as far as I'm concerned. They do seems to lack something in their team; they have too many players of a similar type and dont have enough of a rough edge or experience for me, but I don't think that'll catch them out in the Premier League. I think their class is enough for them to overcome those issues and that it's in the Champions League where they're going to come unstuck.

Chelsea
Liverpool
Utd
Arsenal
Everton
Newcastle
Blackburn
Man City
Spurs
Aston Villa

yep sounds about right, i just put a small wager on chelsea to win the premiership. It sounds solid at 2.50, and I hope spurs continue to leak and score like crazy so I can keep placing Spurs game: Total Goals over 2+ all the time. (Aside from Man United's game that is)

Just curious, why does everyone seem to rate Liverpool lower than Chelsea? Is it just lack of faith in Benitez to not tamper when things are going well, or do you really think Chelsea is a better, deeper team? Is it just the last 18 years of bad luck or something else?

I think Liverpool is better defensively than Chelsea, even with Carragher hurt, and that they can now match up offensively with the Blues. Gerrard is more than a match for Lampard, but the rest of Chelsea's midfield is a bit better than Liverpool's. I think they are even on strikers, with the way Schevchenko has bit it in the EPL. I'd rate Pizarro and Drogba on par with Torres and Voronin, and Kalou doesn't impress me.

I think it's going to be down to the wire.

Chelsea is deeper and plays with the right level of mental toughness to get through a more competative season.  You are sleeping on Kalou, he's solid.  I'm just sure 'pool will find a way for injuries or just sloppy play to ruin their aspirations.  Plus I fucking hate Liverpool.  Also I still say Chelsea is a stronger team top to bottom even if it doesn't look it so far this season.

If I was a Chelsea fan I would wish they had loaned out Sheva and they should have kept Robben (even though I fucking hate him) shipping off Ballack and picking up Alves would have been money too.

Also I can't believe Barca still have all those strikers, fucking criminal nobody went for Eidur or Eto'o.

I bet all those teams who begged for Eto'o are pretty happy now, what with him being out for months.

As for Chelsea/Liverpool, I honestly don't think Chelsea's deeper anymore. Chelsea's only marginally deeper in the midfield, but they are thin at the back. Liverpool has plenty of depth on the back line, enough that there really isn't a dropoff if Riise or Finnan can't start. They have just as many good strikers are Chelsea does, if you take into account Schevchenko's lackluster performance in the EPL.

ManUtd
Liverpool
Chelsea
Arsenal
Everton/Newcastle/Spurs

I think United still has the best attacking squad, and a reasonably solid defence to keep them secure. Tevez, Andersen, Nani... they all just need time to gel with everyone. I have no doubt Tevez will kick some ass later in the season.

Chelsea could win it, easily. But Ambramovich is hampering their success by forcing Mourinho to play Arsenal style, wide, one-touch football. They have a solid squad, but it's built up on totally different tactics of smothering games in the middle, and forcing your will on the other team, not dancing around and through them. Be careful what you wish for, Roman.

Liverpool will get a strong start, and then choke at the end. But I expect them to show well.

Arsenal has "rebuilding season" written all over them. There's a chance that with pretty much no pressure or attention on them, they could really surprise everyone, but I wouldn't bet on it. Too many new faces and no menace up front. They sure look pretty when they spin their wheels though.

I think Newcastle could have a resurgence if Owen stays fit. They made some decent signings, and Allardyce is a good coach to retool a team into a new image, which is exactly what they need.

Sunderland are going to have a relegation battle the last month or two, but they'll squeek by.

I do think, no matter how the tables sort out, it will be an actual competition this year. The top 3 will be within 7 or 8 points of each other all season, and 4th-6th will be equally close throughout. I can't see anyone steamrolling ahead out of reach of everyone anymore.

I think Jol will be out by Christmas, yeah. And Mourinho gone in the summer.





England won't qualify for Euro 08. If they do, they're going out the first round.

I really want them to fall apart on the cold ugly plastic in Russia.  That would just make me laugh and laugh and laugh.

Also wtfux channel is the Brasil game tonight versus the US?  I couldn't seem to find that info listed anywhere.

I don't think Owen matters all that much, with Martins, Viduka and Smith in the squad I think they'll find goals without him. I've never liked Owen much - if he wasn't english he'd just be another average forward.


Just because Torres has bagged a couple of early goals in the season doesn't mean he's as good as Drogba. He isn't. He still has a lot to prove to get to that level and while he might make it it might not get the whole way there - this is after all his first season in the Premier League. Or he might not just make it. I think he's quality and probably will get there, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still just the start of september. Voronin I havn't seen that much of, so I can't comment, but Pizarro is seasoned and Sheva might turn it around this year. Meanwhile Crouch and Kyut have showed us what they're able to do for a little while now (though I think Kyut is very handy) and they aren't going to play much better than last season if Torres isn't up every week.

Gerrard is quality. Alonso is very decent. Mascherano (sp) is decent. Then what? Pennant just isn't that good and Riise is a bit straightforward. I personally think a fit Kewell would help Liverpool a lot. On the other hand I think that Chelsea's midfield is superb across the park. The only worry is the absences of Essien for the African Cup of Nations and extended injury breaks for Lampard.

Basically it comes down to the fact that Chelsea has done it consistently for the last few years. While Liverpool has had a good start it still has a lot to prove. It's a long way to go.

Pennant has actually been playing way above what anyone could expect of him for the last 6 months or so. He still goes through minutes of invisibility, but he's been consistently good this season so far, whether he plays on the right or left. Babel seems even better, but only when playing from the right. Babel has better finishing skills as well. Sissoko and Mascherano are both quality defensive mids, though I think Mascherano is a bit more consistent. After that, you still have Benayoon and Riise(who can also fill up the back) and Kewell is waiting in the wings somewhere. Compared to last year, where the choices after Pennant were Garcia and Zenden, I think that's a huge improvement.

Chelsea's midfield has Lampard and Essien. Sidwell is good, but he's not going to be starting ahead of those two. Mikel has never impressed me. Ballack is OLD and showing it. You never know what you're going to get from Ballack anymore. On the wings, I think Cole is still recovering from his injuries, so will be inconsistent. Malouda is quality. You may be right, in that Chelsea might have an edge in midfield, but I really don't think it's that big an edge, especially not with the depth Liverpool added.

Crouch proved last year that he can score, he's just going to struggle to get starts. Kuyt is becoming the perfect center forward to Torres or Voronin, sitting just behind and providing decent service, continually working his ass off and getting those loose rebounds. He might score 10, or he might not, but he'll make it easier on Torres. I think you are underestimating Torres' ability. He certainly won't dive as much as Drogba, but I think he's just as physical as Drogba and has better feet. Drogba's probably better with his head. Voronin is solid.

I'm fanboi-gushing, I know. It's early yet and they could have a significant letoff. But they deserved to beat Chelsea at Anfield, and DID beat Villa who beat Chelsea. The telling game will be their first away game against the other big 3.

Nothing tonight.  US v Brasil (friendly) Sunday, Sept. 9, 5PM ET/2PM PT  Oh, and on ESPN2 or Univision.  ;)

I've been so fucking tired this week so far, goddamn 4 day weekend took a lot out of me.  I saw the lineups being announced and somehow thought that meant the game was today...

Retarded am I.

after euro n internationals it's back to leagues.

let's see uh.
Liverpool should win
Chelsea as well
Sunderland v Reading. 6 point relegation battle. Reading will sink imo.
Everton v Man U is a hardpick. Hopefully they crash n burn.
Another good match is Spurs v Arsenal - A must watch.

It could say a lot about how the tow teams will fare this year.

Hopefully a good win to utd.

I've been trying to catch up on matches via TiVo for the past couple of weekends (good call on Setanta HaemishM) and I've got a few more to watch before I can join in on the pontificating.  However, while catching up on some of the matches on GOL I've been paying particular to Ray Hudson.  Hudson is not on the pitch, he is the color commentator in the broadcast booth. 

It started while watching ITA vs. FRA while he was talking about Zadane's absence.  I swear he said something about Zadane's "magical behind".  Since that I've been paying attention to what he actually says and he has been a source of great entertainment.  He gets so wrapped up in the game I'm not sure he knows exactly what he saying. 

Scotland > France.

Ray Hudson is the bee's knees. That guy makes any match way way more entertaining, especially when he's with Phil Schoen. He has almost a gay man-love fixation on some of the players, and is so goddamn passionate about the game it's coming out of his ears. The game when Real Madrid won La Liga last year was incredible. It was a good game, and he just lost his freaking mind when Madrid went ahead. Tom Cruise was in the stands (friend of the Beckhams) and Madrid scores and Phil says something like "Even Tom Cruise is happy."

Hudson went the fuck off. "Will you shut up about the bleeding actors!? Can you not appreciate the majesterial performance of these... warriors of the football field..." or something to that effect. It was fucking hilarious. He's like Tommy Smith amped up about 300 degrees and with more flowerly language.

Also, though Man. U. may have Ronaldo back, I would not rule out Everton this weekend. With Yakubu they have scoring punch, and you know their defense is solid. I'm actually leaning towards a draw or Everton win.

And do not count Reading out.

OCH AYE!  Only wish I could have seen this match; even on delay but it doesn't appear that FSN carried it.

Portugal, France, Spain <---their coaches can't keep their mouth shut
These guys piss me off in international matches. I don't understand how they suck so much. Just like England before they suddenly revert to the old team play of Owen and Heskey. Predictable, but it works.

Having a job where you are forced to talk to the press often, combined with possessing a personality, makes it rather hard to keep ones mouth shut.

man united was really lucky lol
liverpool nearly lost 1 point. Idiot missed penalty lol.
Spurs are performing to expectation. Taking a lead by 1-0 Halftime and letting in 3 goals on second half. Jol's head gonna roll soon.
Reading is sinking, the way they lost their players were unexpected but I guess when people just jumped ship near deadlines, they can't find decent replacement.

Spurs seem dead set to blow this year. :(

Liverpool seemed out of sorts most of the middle of that game. Reina certainly saved their asses. I still don't know why Rafa feels the need to switch lineups from game to game when shit is working. Torres should have started alongside Crouch.

Man. U. got really lucky, but that was a great corner and a great header.

Reading just can't seem to find the right lineupthese days. They shouldn't have gotten rid of Seol.

Someone needs to wake Bent up before inserting him into the game.  Sonofabitch!

Chelsea v Blackburn was a great 0-0 affair.  I couldn't get the Utd game.  LoL @ Spurs.  Champion's league starts this week!

Champ. league this week.

Still not a good excuse. He needs to ride the fuck out of Torres. Kid's young enough to handle it. Gerrard and Carragher I could understand leaving on the bench with injuries, but Torres? That motherfucker needs to have his lineup spot engraved in stone.

Also, someone needs to dickslap Tomas Schaff at Werder Bremen for not spending some money on a decent striker after he sold Klose.

There was nobody left to buy once the dust had settled on fucking Bayern's spending spree

Shit, there had to be SOMEBODY willing to play in Germany. Either their scouts aren't doing enough Latin American searches or they just weren't trying hard enough.

Just a reminder, no Champions League spoilers on this thread until at least Thursday. I'm Tivoing the Liverpool/Porto tie today.

Just to be safe I'll go for friday - timezones get the better of me.

Agreed.  No CL talk until Friday then.  I'm pulling for every Portugese and Scottish team...  Hell I'm pulling for every non England team except Aresenal, I do love the way they play and now they are scoring too.  Cesc is the fucking man.

Mourinho is out at Chelsea. (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=464751&cc=5901)

Don't click the link if you don't want to know about CL results.

Hopefully this will completely derail them for this weeks game v Utd.  :-D

I can't say I liked Chelsea's style, but I do think the Mourinho was a decent coach. Abramovich needs to get over himself or sit down and do the coaching himself.

Then again, it's worked for Real Madrid so far this season, so what do you know...

placed a small wager on real madrid winning champs league.  :-P

My first reaction is, "HAHAHA, Suck it Chelsea!!"

My second reaction is where is he gonna go? Who are they gonna get to replace him?

My third reaction after awhile is a touch of sadness. He really was a very good coach, and brought a renaissance of form in several of his players. It will be bad for the Premiership to lose him, and watch his protege's potentially suffer from it.

Maybe he'll coach Portugal and Scolari and come coach England?

i think the correct reaction is to bet on Man United to kick Chelsea's ass over the weekend.

You're forgetting that teams typically bounce back to form under a new coach.

Not this time though, I hope.

true. but i had a funny exchange with a friend of mine who is crazy about football but clueless about world affairs over sms.

'wow mourinho's gone, i wonder who the fuck is the new coach'

'vladimir putin  :-D '

'who the hell is that'

'it's the russian prime minister ffs'

' :-o omg he'll surely pick shevchenko to start everytime then'

Wow, I'm still not going to believe its true that is so fucking crazy.

I just pray they aren't going to grab Juan Deramos or w/e the name of Sevilla's coach is and ruin his life.

Terrible call, I hope he goes back to Porto they have quality enough players to do better.  Or if he winds up coaching the Portuguese or Spanish national teams that'd be awesome as well.

Hilarious.

You know, this shit is exactly why Liverpool, Arsenal, and Buccaneers fans never feel their position at the top of the game is threatened.

Nearly-big-3 clubs come and go all the time, and many outspend the big 3 (Spurs, Newcastle, Leeds, Blackburn, have all gone through these phases along with Chelsea over the last decade or so), but give them a little success and they always go and commit an act of such abject stupidity that I end up laughing so hard milk comes out of my nose.

See also:

Newcastle managers having nervous breakdowns, then the club going through 16 managers inside of 8 weeks.
Leeds betting the business on finishing in the top 2 every single year.
Spurs firing Martin Jol for no fucking reason besides the fact that keeping your manager would be too easy. (oops, that's the future)
Freddy Shepard.

etc etc.

Wahooo! Fuck that douchebag. Well, both him and Abramovich. A gaggle of assholes, and they turned everyone they recruited to Chelsea into assholes as well. If this means that every whistle doesn't bring 10 Chelsea players glommed onto the ref's ass, this is a good thing.

EDIT: I still think Chelsea will beat Man. U. this weekend. United seems in a bit of disarray at the moment.

I agree totally with your statement, Arsenal, Manchester United and Liverpool have one thing in common, they stayed faithful to their managers. Liverpool's Gerrard Houllier left on his own even then he left a team with a solid defense albeit with a predictable attack. Stability is key to build strength season after season. The other clubs seems to be in a hurry to achieve success that they forgot what made the big 3 up there in the first place. Newcastle is very guilty of that, and it appears Spurs are suffering from the same thing this season.

I wouldn't be so quick to throw Aresenal into that mix. Their troubles are coming.

Hard to say. If they do get taken over I think it'll be more along the lines of Man U than City or Chelsea. And as Utd showed under Ferguson, if you have the manager there and give him support then the 'troubles' of such a changeover can be highly imagined.


Man Utd is misfiring in attack. This is not a fundamental problem and will change. To call it disarray is silly.

Meanwhile Liverpool drew in the champ league (it's friday here now - spoiler time is gone) and United got another 1-0 victory, away. If they can keep grinding out these victories in the hard times then when they get a little more sorted it's going to be fun for the whole family.

Chelsea have made that duffer they put in to police Mourinho the new coach. Abramovich is clearly getting too many fingers in the day-to-day pie and may well ruin it.

But, and this is a pretty big but when you try to concieve the long term goals, as the Rosenburg game showed despite Mourinho's success they havn't been able to build up the kind of support base they wanted. Abramovich clearly thinks that attacking football is the only way to do it. To compete with Real and Utd on the world stage they have to do more - they don't have the kind of support there at home that clubs like Liverpool and Newcastle can rely on.

I will be interested to see who they bring in an coach. If it's someone like Capello then I'll cede any rational defense of this sacking.

Liverpool may be in for a funk soon. Or I should say for this current funk to continue. Both Alonso and Agger are going to be out for a month or more with busted feet. Which means Hyppia in central defense getting run rings around him. I'm not too concerned for the midfield defense, since Mascherano and Sissoko can handle that, but those front guys are really going to miss Alonso's service.

I think United are in disarray. The injuries and suspensions have shown they are not nearly as deep as one would expect a title-contending side to be. Tevez will get better, but it won't be against a side like Chelsea. I just hope Liverpool gets a crack at United before Rooney gets back.

This season should be interesting though it doesn't look good that both Everton and Blackburn couldn't do dick with their UEFA ties.

I sort of hope that BB gets knocked out now so they can focus their efforts more and avoid the fucking giant waste of games that are UEFA group stage.

Which is why Rafa tried to poach Man Utd's defender. Fergie knew and stopped him  :evil:
Edit: Postmatch

Liverpool held to a draw. Yawn. Arsenal boot-stomping Derby "We aint scared of the Big Clubs" County. I think Newcastle deserve a smack on their face for losing against Derby last week.

I'm going to enjoy it when Liverpool fails yet again this season. I've tried to be nice about it, but all the crap talking I've heard from their various fans (not just Haem) at even the slightest sign they're doing ok, and the arrogance of Benitez, has just shitted me up the wall.

Meanwhile Arsenal continue on their merry way as I expected.

If Utd beat Chelsea later tonight then we might be moving to a 3 horse race earlier in the season than expected.

If anything it looks like the biggest surprise so far is that West Ham has actually managed to shrug off last season and play like the team their list suggests they are capable. I still don't think they'll be able to keep it up like Blackburn and Everton have in the past seasons (Curbishly has a history of playing in bursts) but if they do then we might see them in Tottenham's place and Spurs in mid table instead.

City will fall fast.

This point stands as far as strikers are concerned. Everywhere else on the pitch? Hello? Liverpool has nowhere near the depth of the Utd squad.

Look at the midfield options... Giggs, Scholes, Hargraves, Carrick, Ronaldo, Nani, Andserson, Eagles, (Park), (Fletcher)

Yes Utd needs another striker, preferably one in the Saha mold, but to say they are in "disarray" is just stupid.

I agree that Man U aren't in disarray or anything, but you are being way too positive about that midfield.

Top class plyers on that list:

Giggs (If rather decrepit and past best)
Scholes (ditto)
Hargreaves
Ronaldo

That's it.

Carrick: Not complete shit, but not actually done nothing. Anywhere. Ever.
Nani, Anderson: Look ok, but Man U have clearly overpaid, and they will need several months to get good.

I'm not even going to discuss the others in any serious way.

I'd much rather have LFC's midfield.

Gerrard
Pennant
Babel
Alonso
Mascherano

...are genuine international class without any real reservations. Then in the Carrick/Nani equivalent range you get...

Sissoko
Kewell
Levia (I'm surprised he hasn't played more than half a competitive match, he's looked great whenever he's on the pitch)
Benayoun


Liverpool have a lack of cover in defence, and still have problems with strikers not called Torres, but drawing attention to the midfield as an example of inadequate depth is not a great argument to make.

I'm still smugly saying I like the way Arsenal plays football more then anyone else in the EPL BY FAR.  Finally they seem to be netting goals from their wonderfully creative and flair-filled play.  Also Cesc has put me top the table in the fantasy league so, go me and shit.

United will figure it out, or just be the Chelsea of this year, winning a bunch of ugly 1-0 games.  They have too much talent to not do well and they play with confidence.  Liverpool often look lost, Rafa is nowhere near the manager SAF is and the culture at Liverpool just doesn't seem to be on par with the other three now that Arsenal is resurgent.  Heaven forbid that that stupid fucker RVP ever starts playing to his potential (is it wrong I hate all dutch players after the mistreatment of Kluevert? -no idea on spelling).

The only thing that could derail Utd would be Ronaldo getting injured or getting fed up with his teammates and deciding to offer less then 100%.  As long as he's at his best and Clichy and him are running at people they will create opportunities.  Also I think Tevez will find form come winter.  Here's hoping we see Tevez & Saha up front and Rooney's stupid ass on the bench.

First, the ones you left out:

Park is injured but is a decent player when he's in.
Carrick is quality but needs consistency. Hopefully it will come.
Nani has showed a whole heap of promise and will only get better.

Fletcher is serviceable but nothing special I agree.
Eagles I've hardly seen play but he looks like a tosser with that haircut.
Ansderson will also take a while to judge to potential.

Meanwhile at liverpool:

Gerrard is as good, or better, than Ronaldo. No question.
Alonso is genuine quality, but all he has going for himself compared to Scholes is age. Scholes is a better player on his day.
Pennant. Don't make me laugh. He tries had but he has serious issues. To compare him to Giggs is insulting.
Babel looks like he could be really good. But he has to sustain it first. He's just come in so there's no reason one should get excited so soon - no more than they should about Nani.
Mascherano is not better than Hargreaves

Sissoko - Sometimes great, sometimes meh.
Kewell - I love Kewell but he's always injured. Until that changes he cant be counted.
Levia - Yawn. Lets talk about players who'd played.
Benayoun - Nothing special so far.

The only thing Utd have been missing on that area of the park is a strong holding player, this was shown by AC Milan last year when they got bullied around, and in Hargreaves they now have that. Otherwise the midfield is very very strong. Even discounting Nani, who is very frustrating atm but has oodles of skill, in Ronaldo and Giggs Utd still have two of the best wingers in the game. Pennant is not a quality player.

Meanwhile in defence, Brown, O'Shea, Neville, Ferdinand, Vidic, Siilvestre, Evra... Utd have more quality and depth there.

Like I said, they just need another non Tevez/Rooney-ish striker.

Anyway:

Villa wins, annoying. Newcastle bounce back against the hammers and Utd get the result with Tevez on the board. Saha scores another. Pompey pops up with another good result. Pity Kanu missed that penalty the other week.

Spurs can't get over Bolton. How much longer can Jol last? Jol out before the new year and Berbatov to Utd, please.

Edit: Pity my fantasy league doesn't count assists, N'Zogbia had another good weekend.

A couple of interesting articles regarding Mourinho in the weekend papers, it looks like Abramowhotsit will be pulling the strings a bit more blatantly under the new coach.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story/0,,2175208,00.html

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2175101,00.html

It is (almost*) always amusing when a chairman decides that he can do a better job at managing a team than the professionals he hired to do it for him.


*Disclaimer: Only when it's happening to some other team. ;)

All of which means shit if those guys don't actually play. And they haven't been. How many games has Hargreaves gotten? Anderson? Both have been used so sparingly, it's no surprise that the midfield lacks chemistry. And they seriously lack chemistry this year, even with Ronaldo out there. Nani can be quality, but again, he's not getting the playing time. Ferguson has played people like Eagles, Park and Fletcher OVER Carrick, Hargreaves and Nani and I can't fathom why. None of those 3 are as good as any of the Liverpool midfielders.

Which is exactly the problem Liverpool is having (or was before the injuries), only they are having the problems up front because Rafa can't stand to not fix what ain't broke. I watched both the Liverpool and Man U games this weekend. Liverpool should have had Torres on from the off, and I can't think of one good goddamn reason he wasn't. As the announcers said, you aren't saving him for Reading in the Carling Cup. So why is he on the fucking subs bench? Kuyt and Torres have shown great chemistry, if you are going to start Voronin, then start Crouch as well. Kuyt and Voronin are just too similar.

Whereas with Man. U. they put out a side that wasn't their best but they at least won their game. I think if Mikel hadn't have been sent off, that would have been a draw. The sending off was ridiculous, though. I am happy to see Chelsea floundering and I'm becoming convinced they will be the ones to drop out of the top 4 and not Arsenal. Somehow, Arsenal's just taking care of business like they should be. Chelsea lost that game because of their defense. I expect them to keep dropping points because Abramovich is going to insist on Schvechenko being out there.

Arsenal may just run away with it, and I totally can't see how. I expected them to have big time trouble scoring goals, but they have been tearing it up. So that shows what I know about football.  :-P

*cough* I pwn *endcough*

They play with the flair Man Utd had last year.  Their problem is that they dont have anyone who can really handle the "stuck in" mentality of many English teams.  There is a reason Wenger was so unhappy after the Rovers game, that style of play is dangerous to his team both mentally and physically.  They will not win the title I'm afraid because they dont have a super deep team and I expect teams to start tackling them harder and harder as the year goes on esp considering the pathetic job most EPL refs do of protecting attacking players from ugly tackles.  See SAF's comments about Joe Cole's bullshit challenges on Ronaldo.

7-4


!!!!

It's like an LA Galaxy game broke out there :)

that sucks. that's gonna ruin the betting odds on total goals for Reading in the future.  :-(
Chelshit is struggling at the moment, and Man United grind yet another 1-0 result. Arsenal is slowing down on goals as well, it could be the champions league factor.

Fucking Setanta Sports dicked me over on my Liverpool game this weekend. Showed the game only once at 8 pm, then fucked up the tape at 10 minutes in, skipping ahead to the 2nd half. Then showed the 2nd half AGAIN after that. Luckily I got to see Benayoun's fantastic goal. The Reds are really missing Alonso in the middle.

Saw the Everton game, and Middlesborough just had no real punch. Now that Howard's back, maybe I'll get some fucking points out of goal in the fantasy league. I've no idea what the hell is wrong with Reading this year.

Damn even w/ Christiano scoring I still slipped to second in the fantasy league...  My goddamn strikers have been leaving much to be disired, if only Benni would remember that he's supposed to want to play football...

The weekend went perfectly for me almost.  Blackburn & Everton got max points, Arsenal still tops the table.  I wish Liverpool would lose more, now that Spurs have been crushed I need the reds to fall apart so I can laugh at all your misery.

They're not dead yet.

This was the game they celebrated their 125th anniversary.

In a funny bit, the Villa fans, having gone 4-1 up on Spurs, started singing happy birthday.

Spurs came all the way back to tie.

Spurs are done, Jol will be sacked before the winter break and they will spiral into mediocrity.  I will laugh.  Say what you want.

....coming back from 4-1 down is no slouch, but to let that happen in the first place...at your homeground. on anniversary even, there's almost nothing right about it. Jol's gone.

Spurs have no defense. Their offense can be awesome, but if they are always playing on the backfoot, they'll never get above mid-table.

I bet Mourinho could do it. If he fancies coaching another London club mired in historic under-accomplishment.

If Sven can make Manchester City play well.... there's still hope for Spurs. 4th place hope though, let's not get ahead of ourselves.






p.s. Liverpool got frogstomped! hahha, pathetic

Pathetic is right. I'll have more to say once I'm done crying my fucking eyes out over the double of Liverpool/Cubs from yesterday.

For those Americans who think that Sakkah is a game played by diving primadonnas the prosecution presents exhibit A - Dida from AC Milan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h213GJo76sQ

The general consensus is that the fall wasn't because he was slapped but because the Celtic fan got upwind of him.....

Hope Dida gets sanctioned just as much as Celtic.

Man Utd - Roma was a good game to watch, despite what the scoreline might indicate.

The fucking Liverpool game was a motherfucking travesty. Marseille is NOT that good a team, but Momo looked like he'd never stepped on a pitch before. The number of sheer fuckup plays in midfield was insane. The announcers said Liverpool were sleepwalking through the first 90 minutes and they are right. Dreadful, fucktastically awful performance and they should have been running laps until they puked on Thursday.

Utd goes top!

Besides the fact that half our team is now injured I am pretty pleased. Players are finally beginning to gell (the first half was still bad) and some of the lesser names are putting in some performances. Anderson was woeful in the first half but he really picked up in the second and it was good to see. Coming off Nani's performance against Roma it's another good thing to see.

And Ronaldo was my captain in the fantasy league this week! :)

Yeah Pique was woeful at fullback for Utd, don't think he passed the half way line once. Once Vidic went off and he slotted in at centre back he was a lot more comfortable and as a bonus the young lad they brought on ( for his debut I think ) played very well and set up Rooneys goal.

Liverpool draws to Spurs. What... the... fuck? Literally, WTF? Sometime from about 40 minutes in to about 80 minutes, Liverpool looked like the same team that played Marseille. They lose concentration and suddenly balls are bouncing all over the place, they can't hold possession for shit and they get scored on. The defense just fell asleep on both those goals (which were fantastic goals from Keane). If Torres wasn't so good, they'd have lost all the points.

FUCK.

Breathe.

International break.

Form in this part of the season tends tyo go in runs between international breaks.

Liverpool will be a different team in two weeks, as will most everyone else. They might be a different shit team, but this one is gone thank god. If they come back and beat Everton and Arsenal, everyone will be writing about how they're the saviours of mankind once again.

Liverpool are a different team every time they run out to play, which is the problem ( as everyone but Rafa has noticed )

:rimshot:

www.fantasyrafa.com

Goddamnit, that's both funny and heart-wrenching in equal doses.

Dida banned for two matches. Amen.

lol can liverpool get any luckier. Tough luck to Phil Neville, but the first red card was retarded. You're 1-0 up, don't risk it all like that; it aint a fucking cup tie.

Rooney is tearing it up.

I wanted him in my fantasy team two weeks ago but had used my transfers up.

It's games like the last few that illustrate how much fun being a Man Utd supporter are.

If you're the last man in defense and you're going to do something questionable then at least do it outside the box, no need to get set off and give away a penalty.
Entirely undeserved win by Liverpool if you ask me. Ref was really ordinary.

Benni grabbed a brace, go south africa!  Also fuck liverpool and my fantasy score took a beating w/ Ronaldo sitting out the whole game and Essien on my bench due to the earlier injury.

Liverpool was super lucky in that game, but I'll take the 3 points anyway. Unfortunately, I can't refute any of the controversy about the game. Yeah, Kuyt should probably have been sent off and Everton DEFINITELY should have had a penalty at the end. But 3 points is 3 points.

On another note, Blackburn is quietly becoming one of my surprise teams this year. I really didn't expect them to do as well as they have. They are also fun to watch.

Poor Reading just looks hapless out there.

-The league should be worried because Tevez looked fucking awesome for chunks of the United game.  I mean really he was a part of every piece of the highlight reel except the Giggs goal which was a solo effort.

-Arsenal continues to roll, making me look and feel smart, also good for them they play such a pretty game of football its so un-English.

-Blackburn is a favorite of mine, I love their black and red uni's and the name has always sounded cool to me.  Also Benni = 4tw.  So their success is nice.

-Hopefully Yak is going to find form for Everton and pull them back into the top half with authority.

-Man Citeh continues to impress, who would have thought that Italians and Brazilians are good at football?   :roll:

-I just wish Wiggan would get it together, ditto for Fulham who were terribly unlucky at the start of the year but now just seem to be playing mediocre games.

Finally I would totally grab that Jones kid from Sunderland for my fantasy team if they didn't have one of the worst defenses in the EPL.  Its a shame that Gordon got totally unlucky, they deserved 3 pts on several levels from that game.

Wigan and Fulham are both mediocre teams, and have been since they came up. Mediocrity is the best they can really hope to achieve.

I continue to be amazed by Arsenal's success this year.

I'm glad to see my support for Arsenal has been shown to be true, but I wasn't expected them to be doing so well. Even I have to admit that.

Though I think Utd is just as impressive at the moment. Tavez Nani and Anderson are starting to gell. I think other teams will be looking at them and worrying. There could be some more 4-goal-plus defeats on the way.

The only game I've seen Man City play, vs Utd, they were really ordinary but managed the win anyway. I assumed that their lack of class would show after a bit, but it seems that they might have just been a bit down on that day. More power to them.

If you can, try and watch Arsenals game from last night, they were on a different planet *Warning - Hyperbole incoming* That was the best team display i've seen since the Van Basten/Gullit days of AC Milan back int he 80's. Man Utd would have looked awesome on any other day but playing the highlights after the Arsenal game you just shrugged your shoulders 'meh they only scored 4'.

Then you watch the Rangers 9-0-1 formation against Barcelona and wondered if you were still watching football.

liverpool  :heartbreak:

liverpool   :-D

Die, you cumguzzling thundercunts.

can't blame us can't we? lol
Sami Hyppia, 2 Own goals in 2 games.  :-P Tough on that old man, but he should be put down like an old dog.

Annnd, Down goes Jol.

Berbatov is sulking and will be  at ManU sooner or later. I can't help but think they're so going down this year.


Jesus Christ they're driving me to drink.

Something is rotten at spurs. You can't lay all the blame for the season so far at Jol's feet.

Somebody besides Jol signed off on buying Darren Bent when they already had two fantastic strikers and needed midfielders. I'm sure whoever that is won't take credit for it.

As for Hyppia, there's a reason Agger is the normal starter. I can't believe Rafa didn't buy someone else to back up Agger and Carragher. Both have gone down with injuries this year and the best they've got to cover is young Jack Hobbs.

But that game in Turkey was just a fucking nightmare. Just like at Marseille, they couldn't hold possession for shit. They lost it in the midfield and it puts the back 4 at a severe disadvantage. It's like they've never received a pass in their lives.

That something rotten is the director of football development, a former Arsenal scout, that ignored Jol's pleas for some cover to the ever broken down Ledley king and added what was seemingly the four thousandth striker in their corps.

It's not that Spurs can't score, They just can't stop them. The more I hear coming out of it, the more it sickens me. Spurs are really only a couple players away, but  they're not going to be able to keep what they've got.


Thing is, trade out bent for a top quality center back who can play and coordinate the defense and Spurs would probably be top four right now.

In Colaship news, Watford are kicking ass. Looks like they're in the runnning to be relegated back next year :)

Fucking Spurs.

Speaking of the Championship, I watched Hull City and Barnsley from last weekend. Hull City has a kid to keep your eye on, Frazier Campbell. He's a striker on loan from Man. U. and this fucking kid is fantastic. I know it's only one game, but he's got all the physical attributes to make him a big-time striker. I'll be interested to see if Sir Alex pulls him back in January or if he stays the whole year in the Championship. He scored 2 goals and was inches from a 3rd. The second goal he scored had him just manhandled in the penalty box by 3 guys and he broke away, kept the ball and scored around the keeper. Fantastic stuff.

Fantastic game between Liverpool and Arsenal.  Jamie C is a cunt, 'pool got lucky, Crouch should get more playtime for England & Xabi is wasted on such a boring team.  Fucking Mascherano bailed them out so many times...  Hyypia looks so terrible.

Arsenal looked good but their weakness was showing, they are going to struggle at times versus hard-tackling, high-pressure up-tempo English opponents.  Also they have very little depth, with the current injuries if it gets worse (it usually does for them) they are in trouble.  Beautiful football at times, in fact from both sides even because there was so much space.

It was a great game. I still can't figure what the fuck Rafa is thinking, EVER. You have Babel and Benayoun and yet you start with 3 forwards, one of which is too hurt to be playing. It made Voronin fucking useless, and ensured they couldn't really use any width. Xabi apparently shouldn't have been playing because he's going to out another month with the metatarsal. Arsenal is known as a fast team, and yet the only speed on the pitch that Benitez used was Torres (hurt) and Gerrard. Shiba shiba whuuuuu??? It's like he HAS to prove he's a tactical genius instead of just putting out a winning side. Liverpool got LUCKY they only allowed one goal, because Arsenal's speed put them past the midfielders before the slowass defenders were ready way too many times. And then he put ARBELOA in the game towards the end at midfield. He's a fucking defender. Why not put Riise on wing and Arbeloa in back, or better yet, PUT ON  BABEL, YOU FUCKING CUNT and go at the Gunners.

Hyypia is past his sell-by date. I hope they move him in January, or at least get someone younger and more competent to back up Agger. Sami just doesn't have the physical skills anymore, and his decision-making has been crap.

Yeah its really bullshit that it ended 1-1 there easily should have been five or six goals in that game.

Some fucking fantastic sliding tackles though by Arsenals defenders, some terrible finishing by Arsenal players, Adabayor had a generally bad game and fucking Mascherano seriously saved at least one goal if not 3 by breaking up countless attacks.

It will be interesting though to see if Cesc can be pushed out of the game versus United by Scholes and Hargreaves or if the shitty EPL refs will actually protect skill players for once from bullshit blundering tackles (I'm looking at you Scholes) and give the yellow early before anyone has been carted off the pitch.  Its a shame Gilberto can't get more playtime, I feel like he would be an effective protective enforcer for Cesc.  As it is now, Eboue might be the "toughest" player the Gunners field in the first team.

PS  I bet I've got some names spelled wrong, sorry bout that.

Yep, that's Javy's game. It used to Momo Sissoko's game, but he has lost all fucking concept of how to take a pass these days. Everything I've seen him touch turns to shit lately. If Mascherano had half the passing skills of Alonso, he'd be a gold mine. As it is, he's still a damn good defensive midfielder, but having to use him instead of Xabi means Liverpool's service to the strikers suffers greatly.

Scholes is out for three months, so don't worry about him hacking the Gunners up.

I expect Sir Alex will go with Ronaldo, Giggs, Nani and Hargraves.. or Anderson in there. Maybe O'Shea or Fletcher if we're playing it more defensive. Personally I'd rather see us give them a go. Two of the best teams to watch in Europe right now... the game will be a letdown.  :cry:

I'm biased, but I think Utd is the stronger team and the fact a win will take them top will bring their best out of them. If Hargraves can keep Cesc out of action and Hleb is closely watched I don't think Arsenal will have as much against us as they do with others. Van Perse is the kind of player I'd be worried about, but luckily he's out.

Alonso and Torres out for Liverpool again. If they can't get Xabi back on the field for most of the season they won't come close to the title. As far as I can see it a fit Xabi, Kewell, Gerrard (The only other truly decent attacking midfielder Liverpool has when he's fit) and a firing partnership between Torres and Kyut is the only thing that can make them a force.

Meanwhile Chelsea has so many players that I feel like giving up on them in my fantasy league. It's so hard to work out if he's going to play Malouda, Wright-Philliips, Mikel, etc each week. The only things you know are that Drogba, Terry, Lampard and Carvahlo will always play if fit. Lampard showed everyone up this weekend and City finally got the pasting they deserved.

If Alsono had half the tackling and holding skills of Mascherano, he'd be a gold mine. As it is, he's still a damn good midfielder, but having to use him instead of Masch means Liverpool's ability to control the middle of the park suffers greatly.


Between the two of them, there is a world beater in there somewhere. Sigh.


EDIT: Actually, Masch does have the technical passing skill, it's just about picking the right option. Masch always picks the simple pass to keep the ball, which is better than the other extreme (Gerrard on a bad day), but when chasing a game, he needs to stretch himself and find the pass that pushes the team on.

I'm still more bothered about the front line. Kuyt is off form, and while I respect the effort Voronin puts in, he's never been on form when it has mattered. Crouch needs to start or not play - he is not and never will be an impact substitute, meanwhile Babel looks better up front than on the wing.

Xabi is a fucking genius, but he is still an Iberian, same problem Cesc has but he suffers from it less ditto Ronaldo but he plays on the wing where space is at less of a premium.

Mascherano was just disgusting though, he not only made brilliant tackles but he tracked everything so well.  Arsenal really suffered from the fact that their right side width plan was Eboue, who is a great player but why the fuck would they send him instead of Sagna was confusing to me.

re:  The United game next week.

I think United have a deeper team and more mental fortitude and tough/rough/english-style players.  Which will mean they will most likely win the title with all the wierd shit going on at Chelsea and Arsenal stilll looking young frail and not having that deep of a squad.

If Hargreaves shuts down Cesc it will only be because English ref's suck dick and refuse to ever give a card in the first 30 minutes.  Hargreaves is a fucking piece of shit in my book who I hate based purely on the WC performance (I make a point of never watching German football) I fucking hate him.

Liverpool should sell Crouch, I think he would really shine as a top striker on a middle tier club.  Similar to Anelka, Kanu, Benjani etc.  He might even earn some much deserved play time for England over fucking Owen.  Stupid limeys.  With the cash they can pick up a decent off-the-bench winger and some then all they need is some defensive cover to not suck. 

I hope they do none of the above because I hate Liverpool for reasons unknown even to me.

Final thought:  Benni may decide he wants to play football this year after all, Yak got a nice goal as well.  Everton/Blackburn for 5-6th kplzthx!!

I think the contest for 5-6 is going to be incredibly close this year. I'm even hoping Liverpool drops out and makes it a contest for that last Champ. League place. Looking forward to it.

Arsenal's defence is going to have a harder time dealing with Tevez and Rooney. Toure can keep the pressure on them, Gallas has some pace to keep up with them, but past that I don't think they will cope. I expect some pessimistic tackles from Eboue and/or Sagne.

I don't think United's defense will have as much problems with Arsenal's attack, especially with Adebayour playing up front alone most of the time. They can match their speed in midfield and the wings pretty well, and their buildup is just as creative, albeit with less flair. It will be all about the forwards, IMO.

Voronin has been off the boil the whole season. I think he's just not being used in the right spots or with the right set of players providing service. He sure as fuck isn't a wide player like Rafa tried to use him on Sunday. Same with Kuyt, he can do the wide thing better than Voronin, but it's not his strength. He needs to work on his finishing.

Crouch just needs to start. With Torres out, he SHOULD be starting, with either Voronin or Kuyt playing just behind. Crouch was the Reds' best player when he came on Sunday, getting more chances than all 3 strikers had previously. He really needs to be starting in the Champions League games, because he shines in Europe or at least did last year. And yeah, without Xabi, Liverpool is going to struggle to challenge for the title.

What fucking channel and what time is the Arsenal v United game on Saturday?  I see its not on FSC which means I'm borderline fucked but someone help me out?

It's on Setanta Sports at 8:30 a.m. EST. if you have Directv or Dish. If you don't, I think you're fucked.

If you have broadband and want to see it on the computer, Setanta Broadband (http://play.www.setanta.servecast.net/setanta/us/default.aspx?aff=1) has a monthly subscription fee, or pay per view packages.

Did you check PPV? Last year, you had to pay for the Arsenal - Utd matches.

Here's hoping it's the best game ever, and Utd wins!  :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real:

:(
was so close. darn it.

The Arsenal-United game was a great game to watch, with the best possible result for me. Fabregas scores a goal (for my fantay team) and neither team won.

Of course, then Liverpool comes out and Rafa again tries to prove he's the smartest fucker in the world. I just don't understand him. Crouch is left on the bench, he uses 2 holding midfielders with Gerrard playing up and surprise, they can't get behind Blackburn's defense. Then for subs, he takes off all the pacey players and puts in Kewell and Crouch. Yet somehow, despite having the slowest fucking team on the planet, they actually start making progress. Why is Crouch not fucking starting? Every time he's come in the games, he's made a difference. He should have taken Sissoko off, put Crouch up front and used Babel and Benayoun down the wings to get service into Crouch from the get go. Sissoko still hasn't proven he's worth a starting spot anymore.

I'm aware that there are people reading this thread who won't see tonight's matches till later in the week.

So all I'm going to say is 'Champion's league - lol'.

there are 8 reasons to be happy about it in Anfield I guess. but fuck, About time Crouch. Good man.

Yeah, amazing what can be done when you start the motherfucker, ain't it?

I'm all for Torres and Voronin and Kuyt getting playing time, but Crouch REALLY needs some Premier League love.

To be fair though, we must state just how awful the opposition was. Every time their goalie touched the ball he knocked it out in front of an attacker. Two more comfortable winning performances will go a long way to remove doubt this was just a good day against a bad team. And this might sound a bit much, but I found their attacking play rather simple, it certainly wasn't as good as the scoreline would make you think.

Which is possibly why he doesn't play Crouch that much, despite him being a more effective player.

Well, Besiktas DID beat them in Turkey, so they aren't that bad a side. It didn't help them that they had their star player out with an injury.

I think Liverpool could benefit from focusing on some more simple play with Crouch. More complicated play like that fucking 4-3-3 against Arsenal sure as fuck isn't working.

Question is what you do when Torres is back.

I don't think Torres/Crouch really feels right.

Torres/Voronin or Crouch/Babel seem the partnerships of the moment.

Torres/Kuyt, or Crouch/Voronin or Kuyt/Crouch for my money. Voronin's regular season form really hasn't shown up at all, and I can't quite figure out where or when his skills are going to start to work with the side. Babel definitely needs to get more starts, preferably on the right wing, with Benayoun on the left. Riise really does need to be at left back and not in the midfield.

I don't buy Babel on the wing.

His crossing isn't that great and he doesn't seem willing or able to run down the line or work with a full back.

Torres, Kyut  or maybe / Kyut, Crouch / Torres, Babel
Kewell, Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard
Riise Agger Carragher Arbeloa

If they had that team on the park I might be bothered watching.

Gerrard on the wing is a no go, or at least, it fucking should be.

Babel's actually decent on the right wing, as he seems more willing and able to run at people. On the left, he seems a lot more timid, or just plain uncomfortable. His crossing may never be great, but if he can shake people at the edge of the box and either get a shot himself or pass it off to the feet of a striker, I think he'll do fine.

Kewell has shown he should definitely be starting, provided he is match fit for 60 minutes or more. But so has Crouch, and we see what Rafa's done with that.

I'd play Gerrard on the right with Babel in the same area and try and get them interchanging with Arbeloa, not playing as out and out wingers. Not sure if they're are strong defensively though, so it might be trouble that way.

A decent weekend of games. I'm very happy with the win over Blackburn. Utd should now get the next three after the break and put the pressure on the Gunners, and then Rooney should be back. Chelsea has got to be close to being written off as a contender at this stage, so many points down with Liverpool Arsenal and Utd ahead of them makes it pretty impossible.

Bolton and Wigan... who'd have thought hiring shit managers would prove useless!

Liverpool won convincingly at Newcastle, but really it should have been 6-0. Torres just kept missing. Newcastle were completely lost the whole game.

Also, BOLTON? BOLTON?????? WTF? Le awesome.  :awesome_for_real:  :awesome_for_real:  :awesome_for_real: And that's who Liverpool has to play next week, at Anfield. I guess I shouldn't take Bolton for granted.

I still can't figure out what's wrong with Reading. Or why Steve Bruce would want to leave Birmingham for WIGAN of all places. And another one bites the dust in Derby. What a strange season.

Spurs are going to finish fifth or sixth again, just to fuck with people.

And wait until the end of the season just to twist the knife into their fans some more.

Bolton was an away game with Tevez tired, Ronaldo rested, Rooney injured, and Vidic out. I guess in hindsight the upset is not the biggest shock in the world. But I was surprised, I admit. I wonder if we'll try to buy Anelka in jan.

I'd expect Liverpool to take them easily.

We can only hope.

Though I heard that Ronaldo and Vidic are coming back soon, so if they are playing, things will be much harder. I hope that while Alonso is gone, Liverpool play Lucas more, as that kid seems to have some nice passing skills. Just please stop playing Sissoko, his confidence is completely shot and he needs to be shipped off somewhere in January. He's not getting enough playing time in Liverpool these days, so when he does, he looks like he's never stepped foot on a pitch before.

I didn't know real pain until I adopted Spurs.

Um, this doesn't look so good for Harry at Pompey. (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=485714&cc=5901)

Woops.  :ye_gods:

I say again: fucking Spurs. *cries bitter tears of angst*

Liverpool looked good against Bolton. Granted, it's Bolton, who looked pretty terrible. Anelka missed an EASY shot at an open goal. But Liverpool were better with Crouch and Torres up front than they were against Newscastle. They didn't miss as many easy chances as they did last week. Now if Fulham can just beat Man. U., I'll be quite happy.

Goals scored while Kewell has been on in the last two matches: 6

Goals scored when he was off: 2 (and one against)

Utd wins, Ronaldo scores twice.

Kewell definitely needs to stay in the side. With Benayoun on the other wing if possible. I've also been impressed with Lucas as the holding midfielder. He's got a bit more passing skill than Mascherano, though probably not quite as good defensively. I think Rafa needs to sell Momo Sissoko in January, as he's got 3 guys ahead of him in the depth chart.

C'mon Newcastle, beat the Gunners!

Fuck that.  Only someone who hates good football would want a pos side that wastes the careers of quality players to beat the best looking EPL team for partisan reasons.  If anyone besides Arsenal or Utd win the league this year I'll be annoyed.

I want Newcastle to beat Arsenal, but the Gunners would have to have a rash of broken legs before I'd believe it's even possible. Newcastle has looked rubbish the last month or two.

Fixed.  :rimshot:

Newcastle done good.

Now to see if Utd can crush Derby as expected.

Kewell rested, Liverpool loses.

Oops.

The Reading game was a fucking nightmare. I cannot fathom for the fucking life of me what Benitez was thinking putting Voronin on the wing. Everybody just tried to squeeze right up the middle, surprise, Reading beat the piss out of them. By the time Benitez pulled his finger out, the game was over. Why is Sissoko playing still? He's pisspoor in possession, useful only to break up a good run up the middle every now and again. Sissoko needs to be loaned out in the January window.

I haven't yet seen the Marseiile game (it's on the Tivo) so don't spoil it.

Marseilles looks fucking fruity in their third uniform. the pink with the baby blue swirl.


it looks like someone got some bleach on a Houston dynamo jersey.

North London Derby tomorrow.

And since I'm afraid to say anything about possible outcomes. I'll leave it at that.

Liverpool get Inter in the Champions League knockout. Not a great draw, but at least it wasn't somebody like Barca or AC Milan. Poor Celtic. Hope they get legitimately beat this year, instead of getting jobbed like they were last year in the knockout.

Also, Liverpool pretty much lost any hope of the title this past weekend. I'm surprised none of you United fuckers rubbed it in.

Not here to rub it in about Liverpool's changes for the title but...

WTF got into Crouchy the other day?  Nice two-legged-full-bodied tackle there mate.

Liverpool was never title contenders to begin with, the current generation relied too much on a few key players to perform, if they don't they're out. Simple as that.
More like title pretenders.

I find it remarkable how much people enjoy saying this, because if there is an enormous gulf between Liverpool and ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea to go alongside the self evident enormous gulf between Liverpool and fifth place, the implication of just how shitty teams 5-20 of the EPL are compared to Arsenal et al must be depressing you all beyond words.


Personally I think people overstate how far back Liverpool are. When they play the rest of the big3+chelsea people keep telling me how they never compete.

Last 3 matches vs Chelsea : Lost, Won, Drawn (on the basis of a patently wrong ref decision).
Last 3 matches vs Arsenal : Lost, Won, Drawn
Last 3 matches vs Man U : Lost, Lost, Lost

Whiskey-nose seems to have the measure of Benitez, which is intensely irritating, but that aside, people overstate the case.

they're a one-off team that's all I can say, it explains a lot why even during Houllier era, the only titles they get are final ties. Even benitez came close to winning 2 finals or three. That's all and good, but for premiership race, you need consistency that you can only by gelling the team together often.

Or, to look at it another way, the others are just a bunch of bottlers on the big occaision.


In fact the one off, cup-tie team accusation has never made much sense to me tied with the 'can't do it against the big teams' jibe that always comes after a loss like the one vs Man U.

Ho hum.

In practice this sort of nonsense gets rolled out whenever the big3+chelsea lose a couple of matches.

Ho hum. Liverpool wont win the title again.

If Inter has one of their 'on' days Liverpool will get ruined in the champ league too.

If you've got any of Inter's game recently you would be saying "if Ibrahimovich can be bothered Liverpool should be doomed" fuck if I can spell his name but when he's awake and playing his form this year has been disgustingly good.

Benitez is a great one-off coach, but his rotation system is fucked. He reminds me of Mike Martz in American football. It seems like he wants so badly for everyone to consider him a genius that he tries to put square pegs into round holes. Like playing Voronin on the wing. Fuck that, play him forward or put him on the subs bench, you twat. I like Rafa, but he just overthinks things too much and doesn't let his players play to their strengths. 2-1 to DERBY? FFS, that should have been a walk game. But Gerrard seemed to hold back until the 60th minute or so, and I get the feeling it wasn't his idea.

Speaking of asshead coaches, has anyone been watching La Liga this season? Valencia is my team and they are fucking PAINFUL to watch. The team has a ton of talent, but they sacked their coach, Flores, earlier in the year. His replacement was Koemen from PSV Eindhoven. I can't imagine why. Watching last year's second leg of Eindhoven and Liverpool was painful as none of PSV players looked in anyway enthused to be playing what was a lost cause. They just drifted through. Well, that's how he has Valencia playing.

He's told 3 of their longest standing vets to go find other teams, including their #1 goalie and their captain. And these guys weren't playing bad. He's insisting on playing the team with a lone striker up front and the team isn't built for that. Hell, he's making players like Silva and Joaquain look ordinary, and these two are world class. The team has no inventiveness in his system, and yet he's blaming the players. I also don't think he's named an unchanged side since he got there. Oh, and they haven't won since he got there either, not in Europe, the Copa Del Rey or the league.

Raffa needs to do less rotatin' and more resting. Like Arsenal and Utd.

I read that as roasting. and was thinking that  ManU does well enough with the amount of roasting that they do, well except for that one girl who pressed rape charges.

Liverpool can't beat Wigan at home.

Seriously, what the fuck?

Speaking of Liverpool.  You see the game at Kenilworth Road vs. Luton Town?  Sucks for Liverpool fans, but damn, what a great match.  By the end of the first half the crowd in front of the broadcast booth was really enjoying the match and their beer. 

No, Setanta didn't have the Liverpool FA Cup games. In fact, I haven't seen a football match in almost 2 weeks. I'm jonesing.

Big Sam fucked right off. I'm still not sure why he couldn't make things work at Newcastle, but I bet Bolton is wishing they'd waited a bit longer to hire Megson.

I have no sympathy for Big Sam. He talked himself up to hell and back -was pissed off that he wasn't made the English manager and all- yet when it came down to it played the same boring style, couldn't get results, and couldn't handle the criticism that came with the job.

They should get Jol if you ask me. They say and Englishman, but there are no fucking decent ones I'm aware of, and recycling the same old useless shit and then sacking them after 6 months-2 years is getting old.

Jol would be a nice change of  pace for a fucking dreadful and dire team.

Spurs biggest problem this season was the fact that they had no force in the defence to hold things together. King being hurt  was not Jol's fault, Picking up Bent wasn't Jol's fault either.

And there are no good english coaches right now. LOL Bruce Arena for Newcastle! Someone who speaks like Sylvester the cat in the land of the Geordies. That would  bring a smile to my face.

Frankly I'm ready to write off the season for Spurs. My Dynamo will start up the Pan Pacific Tourney in a few weeks. Concacaf Champions Cup starts in March.

Thing is, he was making things work.

11th is an entirely appropriate position for Newcastle.

The problem was he provided insufficient comedy. The purpose of Newcastle is to give the rest of the country something to laugh at.

NUFC, plus Ant and Dec, sums up Newcastles contribution to British comedy.

Bets on the next liverpool coach?

Until a month or so I'd have responded with 'LFC are not Tottenham or Newcastle'.

The really frightening thing is it's impossible to be sure what the new owners are thinking.

Fucking hell. Liverpool... I just don't know what to say. They can't beat Wigan at home, can't barely tie Boro on the fucking road. If it hadn't been for one bit of brilliance from Torres, they'd have lost. And I can't say I'd blame it in any way on Benitez, that team was total shit yesterday. They couldn't pass to save their fucking lives, couldn't hold possession, their defense got constantly run past, and until Babel came on, they made no fucking attempts to get down the wings on offense. Riise is not a winger, he's a back and lately not a great one. He's way too slow to play on the left midfield, you might as well put Alonso out there. Benayoun is good, but he's not a true winger. He tends to cut into the center way too much, and can be good at it, but when your entire team just compresses into the center, the defense just contracts and suddenly there are no shooting lanes. If there was anything Rafa needed, it was some faster defenders and a pacy winger. Babel is not that winger. I'd actually like to see Rafa sell Voronin and use Babel to play off of Torres up front. Then buy a goddamn winger to play the other side of Kewell. Voronin has been a complete disaster, and I can't figure out if it's just the English game, he's over the hill, or he's being played in the wrong manner. But it just isn't working.

Title hopes were gone weeks ago, now I'm just hoping they can get their thumb out long enough to stay in the top 4.

Welcome to the Mediocrity FC Division of the Premiership.

Spurs have style in their mediocrity, and Newcastle are funny to watch. What will LFC bring to the party?

LOL, LFC=Loser Football Club.

He's an average player taken in on a free because rafa knew he was likely to be one short on strikers.

He tries hard, but should really be 5th choice out of the 5.

Fucking hell.

I honestly don't know which is more retarded:

a) Believing that Jurgen Klinsmann is a potential Liverpool manager.
b) Publically admitting to talking to him.

Either way, these are the two most retarded things to happen at Liverpool football club in over a quarter of a century.

I honestly didn't think I'd see 'Souness as manager' being beaten into third place for at least a generation.

klinsmann is taking over at bayern at the end of the season, have no fear.

you'll get someone even worse.

Bah, Klinsman made the German team play a really fun, uptempo sort of game. At the very least, he'd have probably stuck with one goddamn lineup as opposed to Rafa's "throw darts at a roster card" method.

My contribution to this thread is to point out that I'm a huge Newcastle fan.  You can just derive my opinions and suicidal attitude from there.

Bruce Arena For Newcastle, I'm telling you  :awesome_for_real:

Arena would be only slightly worse than Maurinho, snide bastard.  Shearer screams desperate short-term attempt to hold onto fans.  I liked Allardyce.  He should have had more time.

Part of the problem is that most Toon fans think they're entitled to a top 5 finish, and aren't going to be willing to spend any time rebuilding.  This isn't that team anymore.

Shearer is a tosser. Sitting around like a dickhead with no experience and making no effoert to get it, yet unwilling to rule himself categorically out of contention and hanging on to the dreams of certain fans and dicking with the authority of the manager at the time.

They should just appoint him, see the failure and then move on properly.

Allardyce is a good manager, he just plays boring boring boring ass football. Toon fans want Tottenham play style with Bolton level defense, which you aren't going to get without spending like the Big 4 (or hell, Big 3 these days).

Not true. Look at how much certain clubs have paid for players recently. There is only really a big 2 in that regard. And the gap below isn't such a huge one.

Allardyce coaches boring because he cut his teeth trying to keep a Championship team in the Premiership, and he got good at it.  Doing well with a bad team requires a lot of boring, defensive play.  It's possible that he's not cut out for running a (theoretically) good team.  But I'm inclined to think he would have adapted, and anyone that can take Bolton to the UEFA cup has chops.

Everyone who supports premiership teams outside the big 3 have had decades to get used to the fact that their clubs are run by fucking clowns. Maybe there are a couple of exceptions, Middlesborough, maybe Reading, that's about it. This sort of shit isn't supposed to happen at Liverpool. That's the whole bloody point of being Liverpool.


As for people trying to suggest Klinsmann would have been anything other than the most fucked up managerial appointment since, well, anything Newcastle do, just no. Seriously. No. Fuck, even Souness had a few weeks for which the crowd was behind him.

There's rumours about that DIC are interested in making another bid - I seriously doubt it's anything other than a rumour - but we can live in hope.

Eh I'd say Newcastle peaked during Robson + Shearer era. But ever since those two had a fallout; it all just went downhill. At least it wasn't as fucked up as Leeds United. A club that went to Champions League semi final going down 2 divisions?  :uhrr:

Liverpool will never sack their manager. That's just the way it is, until they can get a manager who knows when to gamble and when to use a 'big guns' consistently, they'd never make it to the top. Just look at Arsene, the guy juggles vets and youngsters; he threw his skilled youth in cup competitions for experience and were never let down. When Henry left them, people thought Arsenal was done for, but they're still doing great for a team with no Number One Man.

Yeah, Arsenal has continually impressed me. I was one of those that expected them to fall hard when Henry left. Shows what the fuck I know.

The problem is that Liverpool IS better than they've shown. Even with some of the scrubs they have in that team (or players just playing out of position), their roster is better than they've shown in some games like the last two league games. WIGAN AND BORO? Come the fuck on. And Rafa seems intent on outthinking himself constantly. I think if they don't win the Champions Leauge, he may get sacked or "choose to move on" in the offseason.

So, "Grown Ass Man"  and perennial slacker Eddie Johnson of MLS's Kansas City's Wizards is in serious negotiations with a premiership club.


I could tell you which club, but I'm sure everyone who follows knows instantly which club would be interested in the American Striker.

Man City or Fulham?

 Of course he's going to Fulham.

Seriously, that will make five yanks on the team.

Keller, although God knows what he's actually doing there.
Bocanegra, swings from hero to Goat a :lot:
Dempsey, who's actually doing pretty well
and McBride (McHead) who is long in the tooth but has done well for the Cottagers.

I wonder if Deuce will kick Johnson's ass for slacking, which has been Eddie's main fault.

I'm suprised to see this on the BBC...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7197675.stm  (DIC making an offer on LFC)

...because while I'd heard the rumours along with everyone else, they smelled like complete bollocks. The beeb usually stay clear of this sort of rumour unless they really mean it.

If it does happen I suspect it'll be the end of the very cool stadium design HKS put up (and which was looking iffy anyway). But it would at least be the end of assclowns talking publically about Kilinsmann.

I don't see it making any difference to the transfer budget. Last time around, both Gillet/Hicks and DIC were clear to anyone willing to read what they were actually saying, that they were happy to fund the stadium, but transfers were still only to be funded from sustainable profit. Meaning the budget stays at 20-25 million per year.

Goddamnit, I fucking hate Tom Hicks. He pays $25 million a year for fucking Alex Rodriguez, then worms out of the deal a few years in to trade him to the Yankees because he didn't want to pay more money for good fucking pitching for the Rangers. Now he wants to skullfuck my football club too by nickel-and-diming bullshit with loans and shit.

Fuck him. I'm tired of this shit and I've only been following Liverpool for two years. It's sad when a DUBAI company looks better than a pair of American robber barons.

title pretenders did it again.  :ye_gods:

Is anyone surprised?

Benitez has to go.

Yes. And he can take Hicks and Gillette with him. Oh and Aurellio as well.

I just don't get it. It's like Liverpool gets 1 goal up and they immediately go into a shell. They won't attack, and when they do, they miss everything. The only time they seem to hit on a regular basis is when there's no score or their backs are against the wall. It's infuriating.

Oh sweet Jesus Lord,

If you're up there, please do not let Spurs fuck up  3-0 to Arsenal in the second half.

*prays*

Destroyed.

This was a red letter day.

5-1, and it could have easily been 8-1.

Total Spurs dominance over the Gooners.

That sounds so sweet to say.

Lets not get carried away quite yet eh? I think you'll lose in the final no matter who you will play, as the final is more than 2 months away ensuring that Ledley King will have another long term absence by then.

Didn't know Adebayor and Fabregas were  reserves.

Someone should tell Arsene.

Hleb too, but he doesn't count.

It was great fun watching Adebayor and Bendtner scrapping towards the end.

C'mon now, don't be a raging douche just cos your team won. Did Adebayor and Fabregas start? In fact it was 4-0 before Adebayor got introduced. From the starting line up only 2 people in the Arsenal team were regulars this year - Gallas and Hleb with Gilberto Silva being the only other senior squad member, but he has hardly played a game this year.

I missed the Glasgow kiss at the end though, i'll need to go youtube hunting

To hear a Gooner describe anyone else as a raging douche is comical.

I'm just glad the Hoodoo is over. That's a long time to go.

I'm sorry, but calling  that lineup "reserves" is pushing it a bit.

OMG hooligans.  I can only assume the Burberry and shivs will be out shortly.

Also, it'd take Arsenal a season and a half to overcome a 4 goal deficit.  Too busy passing. 

If Spurs could just keep King in one piece I'd feel much better about their chances in all competitions.

As it stands, I'm just looking forward to seeing  them at Wembley.

Woodgate to Spurs. :drill:

Well, now they have 1 defenseman. Might only give up 2 goals a game.

one and half.

You forgot King. :)

and with a solid center, perhaps Chimboda will improve as well.

No, since his vagina will be sprained 20 minutes into whatever game he plays in.

It's 45, thank you.

And that's why I said half.

isn't he getting sold to newcastle?

perhaps, but never let the possibility of a quarter decent Spurs back line get in way of the facts

We Had them.

had them
 
had them

Fucking HAD those United Cocksuckers.

I'll live with the draw but that was two points Spurs wasted.

Cheaters! :(

don't remind me. . .

Crouch starts, Crouch scores. Hmmmm, I wonder if maybe Crouch should be starting more. Granted, it was against Sunderland, but he did it against Aston Villa too. I really can't understand why Rafa refuses to start him.

It's because he's shit.

What  he said.

It's just Sunderland.

He scored against Villa too. They are a much better side than Sunderland.

This is the same Villa that lost to Fulhamerica on Sunday, right?

Liverpool lost to West Ham. I mean, really, any side could lose to any side these days, no matter how unlikely. Fuck, Bolton beat Man. U. at one point this season.

I'd agree with that, Derby County excluded.

Well, Newcastle can certainly lose to any side these days.  I can attest to that with some confidence.

You neglect the extenuating circumstances.

And yeah. Liverpool losing to someone isn't really an argument. They're not exactly top 3 material.

Liverpool has enough extenuating circumstances of their own, beyond just that half of their players don't seem to know why they are playing the positions on the pitch they are.

Oh, and West Ham beat Man. U. too.

Only vagely related, and mostly due to Fulhamerica and Derby County, but National Piss on Mexico day is today.


USA - Mexico at 9PM eastern on the Deuce.


Anyone been following Michael Bradley here? He is absolutely tearing it up over in Holland for Heerenveen.

I'll be in houston tonight to watch it in person. You folks should check it out.

Sooo...?

How was it in person?  I watched most of the first half in real time and later scanned through the second half on DVR.  Seemed like a well fought game on the pitch and pretty great atmosphere (by US standards?) in the seats.

As for the Dempsey off-sides call... WTF?  Lame.  Also at one point one of the announcers rightly commented that the game was beginning to resemble an all-star event where nobody wants to play any defense.  The US had no business letting in that set piece goal by Mexico; dreadful.

It was a hell of a lot of fun. Packed house, mostly pro Mex, but not as bad as it used to be.

Lots of Dynamo shirts in the house, that warmed my heart.

My observations:

Drew Moor  can't cover for shit. But he can serve a hell of a cross. We need a fucking right back. On the left, Corrales is hust holding Bornsteins spot  while he recovers from injury.

Bobby Convey, I know I heard his name, and I think I saw him  for a second or two, but he did jack shit out there.

Landon doesn't need to play right side any more. It's a waste of his skills and it's not his thing.

Dempsey got hosed on that call, but he was the most skilled guy out there on either side. BUt skill couldn't get him the ball when it wasn't coming to him and he didn't do much to get to it himself.

Edu looked Good. Clark looked rusty. Bradley didn't mesh well. Feilhaber looked  especially good since he hasn't gotten a sniff at Derby.

But the one thing I'll come away from that game, other than it was one of the most enjoyable times I've had in some years, is Josy Altidore.

If you're reading this thread and you live in the US or Toronto. Take the time to go see Red Bull New York  when they come around. Go watch Jozy Altidore in person before he leaves for Europe. He's absolutely phenomenal. He does so many things so well, things that you just don't see forwards do. His runs off the ball are fabulous. HIs ability showed in going toe to toe with Marquez and not just hold his own, he flat out beat him on many occasions. Rafa is one of the best in the world, and  An 18 year old kid made him look silly on at least four occasions.
 
There was a foul called on a breakaway that was nonexistent. Josy just ran by him. He powered that header home for the second goal, holding off multiple defenders and deuce as well.


This was a young team that did better than I thought. If they can come together, solidify and fix that awful  right back and find a true number 10, they could be really, really good at the next World Cup.

Altidore is the real deal. He'd look so much better if he wasn't playing on that shitty turf for home games.

I only saw the 2nd half.

-The coach's kid looked out of place, he has no business playing centre mid from what I watched, fucking pathetic.
-Dempsey didn't quite look comfortable in his role, he has the skills to start somewhere on the US team but hopefully its either not there or somebody gives him some coaching.
-I didn't think Convey did too terribly in the 2nd half before he was removed.  But I'm a huge fan of his, him and Hejduk were the best guys on the US team for so many years (fuck you Donovan).
-Edu did look good, Adu looked solid as well, hopefully he's getting some playtime in the BWIN league, he also looked stupid running up into his teammate's space
-I like this Altidore kid, the sooner somebody swoops him up in Europe the better
-The entire backline looked like shit, except the LB who started to look like shit as he got tired.
-Feilhaber did look awesome, but I think that was partially how much ass Bradley sucked and the announcer being all up on his cock.  Srsly though, he showed well as a sub.
-Where the fuck was whathisface with the Italian sounding name?  That guy looked so promising in the WC, is he hurt?
-Onyewu still looks like a big oaf on the pitch, fucking clown, even if he did score.  He also missed the frame terribly in the 2nd on a free header.


Mexico had some serious cutting edge to them considering how easily they cut through the midfield and delivered pressure straight down the center of the pitch forcing the defense to collapse, its criminal they couldn't do more with it after the attacker would draw two and put a touch pass to the corner of the penalty area for a winger to run onto.

Several of those good runs were shut down by Bocanegra. And we have other central defenders than gooch. it's the wings that make me nervous.

Altidore can still learn from Angel,  and MLS is not  so substandard as to be a waste of time for him to stay here another year or so.

FA Cup - 5th round
Liverpool - Barnsley

Don't read if you don't want to know...







************ SPOILERS ************************







Holy shit, what an amazing finish!  Barnsley's keeper must have stopped 7 or 8 shots in the final 30 minutes.  Just on fire in front of his net.  And then... THEN!  That finisher in extra time.  What the hell, Liverpool?  Feel free to play some defense there Alonso.  Amazing game.  Unbelievable drama.

Fucking amazing... and Arsenal getting kicked in the balls in the early going by ManU just warms my heart.

Got to find a way that I can catch the carling cup final.

I know there's out on DVD at spurs' shop, but  anyone seen a torrent of the 5-1 semifinal beatdown?

Fucking Barnsley.

Really? You can't beat fucking Barnsley?

Cockles. To be fair, the Barnsley goalkeeper and right back (Steele and Hassel respectively) were fucking monsters all day. But really, this shouldn't have been a problem. At Anfield, the Reds should have been able to put 3 goals up easy.

But it's like they've done all year. They get 1 goal and they take their foots off the pedal and try to cruise to a 1-0. When that doesn't happen, they are out of ideas.

The video of the guys in sky sport's  studios reaction was tremendously  funny.

I understand the goalie, Steele, had only joined Barnsley mid-week on loan and this was his first appearance with the club.

Sigil - Spurs-Chelsea for the Carling Cup final on Sunday... you got anything on who if anyone is going to carry it in the states?

Carling Cup is Setanta.

Spurs won  their UEFA fixture last weekend, and  Woodgate will be available for the Final, as Boro freed him up.

Let's see if Ramos can work some Cup magic for us.

Heh.

No spoilers, but:

Very silly ref. Very boring half. Very surprised to see the final scoreline.

SPOILERS





Yes. Though not on the boring part, but yes on the ref. Sending off Materazzi for those two fouls... hell, booking him for either of those fouls was silly. The second one I could have understood getting his first yellow for cumulative fouls, but both fouls were really ticky tack fouls to be handing out cautions. Not to mention the fact that the ref just had no clue what a handball was, or was just refusing to call it. That Belgian crew was pretty terrible.

The scoreline was a beautiful thing. Again, why isn't Crouch starting? Why put Lucas out on the wing and leave Pennant on the bench? Rafa just seems to have no respect or understanding of what makes a good wing midfielder. Either put someone with pace like Babel and Pennant, or put a passer like Kewell there. Babel really doesn't thrill me as a winger, since he loses the ball too much when trying to charge into the box, and Lucas is much better in central midfield.

Kewell was injured (again!).

I think he felt Pennant isn't that good defensively and would get exposed. I thought Lucas did ok from what I saw (only saw the first half).

Lucas did fine, but he didn't really provide much out there, either. He's just better as a center mid, a la the Alonso role, than he is a winger. It's not the first time Rafa has used someone like that on the wings. He's done it with Voronin, which did not work at all, and he's doing it with Babel with mixed results, IMO. It's just silly to put Lucas out there on the wing when you have good enough options on the bench in Pennant.

Funniest thing about the Liverpool game is the press reporting today.

Everyone had quite clearly written 80% of their reports before the goals, half of them in a '0-0 is a good result' mode, half of them in 'Rafa is the anti-christ' mode.

There is no sensible reporting on LFC at this point. It is fricking hilarious. The media is equally split between Rafa lovers and haters.


As for why Rafa played with no wingers at the start, I suspect it was because he felt being able to switch play from side to side, and interchange players to break up inter's defensive organisation was more important than being able to run at inter in a conventional manner, and as a plan it seemed to work pretty well. In all probability Pennant, Kewell, Benayoun etc would have been much less effective from the start.

Incidentally, having been through countless games of frustrating rotation earlier in the season is what makes this sort of thing work when it really counts. See also, Barca 07, Chelsea 07, Juve 05, Chelsea 05 etc. Inability to change their plan is a big part of why Chelsea, Arsenal, and ManU choke so often in this situation.

I don't think it's that so much as an inability to control this own game.

Remember the Utd teams of the past? The way they would have a whole different game to play when they needed to? It is the same with AFL teams here in Australia. In 2000 my team lost the one game for the year only. In all the other games they looked solid, not always just because of the scoreline, but because that had that other gear to go to.

"Other gear" has now become a bit of a cliche, but the great teams still have it and know when to use it. Without it you get caught playing a predictable game too often. Watching the City game vs Utd I felt this. They didn't have another gear to go to, all they could do was try to play faster, which is not the same. Faster just means you rush things and your approach play isn't as solid. However with the right side on the park I think they can play like this (For me I think that side includes Carrick (passing), Saha (pace, different forward threats) and Nani (less Ronaldo centric)--SAF disagrees)

Liverpool has some serious big game players and always need to prove itself in Europe. I don't think it's necessarily an indication of Rafa.

SPURS get the cup!


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

*dancing and  shouting at the house at the moment*

/faints

That Carling Cup final was a good game. In your face, Chelsea, you sea of raging douchebags.

yeah always hated setpiece goal winner, especially chelsea specialists at that.
Was so close to FT too.

Hooray for Spurs!

Didn't get to see it and succeeded in not spoiling myself until the FSC could deliver me the highlights on Sunday night and then some nice analysis on Monday.  And now I cannot WAIT to see the next installment of the Fox Football Fone-In to find out from Steven Cohen how it tastes to have fat, lillywhite, Tottenham cock rammed down his throat.  Joy.

You'd think with a name like Cohen he'd be all over Spurs.

Yid Army all the way

A song from the ever classy Villa fans at the last match.

What's that sticking out of his sock,
Is it his ankle, is it his ankle

Eduardo Wwooooo
He had some silky skills,
Now he walks like heather mills wwooooo wwooooo

he used to run down the left
he used to run down the right
That boy Eduardo will run in circles for life

You stay classy, Villa.

Here are my predictions for the return legs of the champ. league:

Utd by 3 goals.
Liverpool through on away goals.
Milan 2-1.
Schalke through by one goal (a draw away).
Roma through (draw or one goal up away).
Chelsea by 2 goals.
Barca comfortably.
Sevilla by 2 (at home, by one overall).

How wrong will I be? Time will tell.

(Here's who I'd prefer go through: Utd, Liverpool, Gunners, Schalke, Roma, Olympiacos, Celtic, Sevilla)

Hmm, I'm quite pleased with the results so far.

This may not be new to many of you but it's a new discovery for me.  If you run Firefox go get the FootieFox extension. 

Fanfuckintabulous.    :awesome_for_real:

lol Chelsea.

Lolz Chelsea AND Man. U. But at least Man. U. lost to a decent Premiership side.

Barnsley.

I've followed the EPL for years, and I will never understand the hiring and firing practices.  With Americans sports I understand the conditions under which a coach or manager is going to get fired, and it rarely comes as a surprise.  You have to be performing under expectations, for a period long enough to demonstrate that it's not just bad luck, and the length of the period the owners will tolerate is proportional to just how far under expectations you perform.  If a playoff team comes in at the bottom of the division, you might get one more year to turn it around.  Getting only one season is rare.  Getting less than a season requires being caught with both of your mistresses at the same time on a mound of coke.

When Newcastle booted Allardyce I was like 'WTF?'.  He hadn't even been there long enough to put a system in place, the team was only underperforming if you have your head so far up your large intestine that you think Newcastle is worthy of the top 4, and he'd demonstrated with Bolton that he knew what the fuck he was doing.  In a major American sport, that means you give him at least a full season to sort it out.  Instead, they dump him halfway through the season and now they're fighting to stay out of the fucking drop.  And the weird thing is, it wasn't just Toon ownership being douches (although it was definitely that as well), all of the European press anticipated it, and to a large extent called for it.  Like firing a competent manager 3 months into his reign for doing an above-average job is just the thing to do over there.  Fucking amateurs.  I'm glad more US owners are taking over EPL teams.  Teach them how to run a fucking franchise.

Liverpool fans would likely point out that needs to be in green.

Fans. Expectations. Boring to watch. Big big club. People who don't just care about money. Etc. Stupid to get rid of Big Sam? Maybe. But if Man Utd. ever played like Bolton I'd complain even if they won the league time and again. Fucking boring.

Bolton was really abysmal to watch (still are, but only because they suck now) under Big Sam. But he got them into Europe, which cannot be said of his successor or of Newcastle. The Toons might have made it under Big Sam, maybe next year but that team needs such an overhaul on the back and front lines that it would have been just as painful to watch. Owen just doesn't have it anymore and their defense is shit.

Maybe Newcastle, it's fans, and Mike Ashley need to simply realize they aren't a big club, and haven't been in 15 years (barely... more like 30). Wishing really, really hard and repeating it as often as they can isn't going to change that. Top 4 expectations of any manager they bring in is ridiculous.

Right now Tottenham are a bigger club than Newcastle. And that ain't saying much.

Right now Wigan are a bigger club than Newcastle.

Speaking of the drop, how bout that Fulham?  There goes about 80% of the US players in the Premiership.

Dempsey will relocate, but the rest of them are fucked

maybe we can juggle between  Fulham and Watford

Jay DeMerit and the Fulhamerica boys alternate locations.

And Benny Feilhaber needs to come off his high horse and get some playing time in MLS. RBNY could use him. So could the Quakes.

DC Wouldn't, Neither would Houston, but he could find a nice home.

Although sign Feilhaber and trade Clark to another club for a striker. . . that could work for Houston. Although I still contend that if Dom Kinnear can make Paul Dalglish, Nate Jaqua and Joe Ngwenya look great, he can do pretty much anything he wants in MLS.

Seriously, those of you who follow it at all, name me a coach who's been as dominant in a league as Dominic Kinnear has been in MLS.

 :grin:

Inter still had a few injured players and a coach that seems to have no idea, yet despite it if Ibrama could have hit the target (which many--of us even--expected him not to be able to do, as he often fails in these games) then we might have had a close game.

Liverpool can say what they like, but as far as I'm concerned as a utd fan I'd like to get these semi-final matchups, in order:

Schalke
Fenerbache
Liverpool
Roma
Arsenal
Chelsea
Barca

I think everybody is chomping at the bit to get Schalke or Fenerbache.

I want to see Fenerbache do well if for no other reason then to see wide open attacking ball at the end of one of these things.

I'd agree with that, except you are overrating Barca, and for Schalke or Fenerbache you could make a case either way around..

Man U have a solid record against Liverpool, and I'd expect them and Arsenal both to be comfortable drawing us, wheras Man U will want to avoid Roma, and Arsenal avoid Barca for historic reasons. For what it is worth, I'd view Man U as clear favourites vs Schalke and Fenerbache, and narrow favourites vs everyone else if they meet them in the QFs. Man U's odds start to lengthen if they meet Barca or an English side in the SF or Final, as they've been croaking too often in the late rounds of this competition.

From a Liverpool perspective I'd put them in this order...

Fenerbache
Schalke
Roma
--------
Chelsea
Barca
---------
Arsenal
Man U

In a QF, if we get any of the first three I'd see us as clear favourites, next two - narrow favourites, against Arsenal and Man U we'd be narrow underdogs.

If we reach the final, I'd see Liverpool as narrow favourites against anyone. But I hope to god it isn't a Liverpool v Man U final. Both the press and the Man U fanbase would be so fucking tiresome (I'm sure the LFC fanbase would be no better, but they wouldn't be irritating me).

Berbatov is $$$

I can't remember the last time Utd played Barca, so I'm erring on the side of caution. We tend to do much better when we have a bit of history with the clubs; Fergie seems to judge better from games than from imagination. And we sometime have trouble breaking down even bad defenses in big games.

We have looked better than both Liverpool and the Gunners in direct matchups recently, so I'm reasonably comfortable against them. Roma we have played a bit recently, and come out on top (havn't lost to them in the last three games, and looked comfortable in the group stages) so I'm not that worried by them. We should win it.

Chelsea is a probably the biggest worry for me. They have done well against us recently from memory (1-0 when Grant had just taken over at home, late in the game, is not a great win IMO) and have quality players who know us and can perform on big occasions. However, they have been stuffing up those big games of late, so maybe I shouldn't fret too much.

Double penalty blows for the english in Europe. Hard luck.

Champion's League thoughts:

I'm rooting for anyone who isn't English.  Too bad I can't see anyone but Barca having the quality to make the final of the non-English sides.

Barring that I'm rooting for Arsenal or United because at least they play decent looking football most of the time.

I really would be so fucking sad if it was a Liverpool v Chelsea final.

The Spurs fan in me wants him to stay, but there s a part of me that would love to see him go to someplace other than Arsenal and show just how special he is.

He's really freaking special.

-Apr 1 & 2 First Leg
Arsenal v Liverpool
Fenerbahce v Chelsea
Roma v Manchester United
Schalke v Barcelona
-Apr 8 & 9 Second Leg


It is a moral imperative for Pool to kick Arsenal's ass.

Arsenal? Well, fuck. And even if we win it, we get Chelsea in the semis again.

Fuckity fuck fuck.

No redraw for the semis?  I always get confused about which rounds they redraw for

Watch! As Eldaec teh PREDIKTAR dooms clubs forevar by predicting their success.....

Arsenal v Liverpool
Fenerbahce v Chelsea
Roma v Manchester United
Schalke v Barcelona


Liverpool v Chelsea
Manchester Utd v Barcelona



Liverpool v Barcelona


Barcelona.

They draw for all of them except the semis.

Liverpool won't make the final.
Utd can beat Roma, but I'm not sure about Barca (as I've said earlier). We have the quality, but it could be a close one. Should be exciting if it turns out we play each other, anyway.

I think Chelsea is looking good for a final at last.

I don't know that Barca will beat Man. U. in the semis. They have been a bit stumbly of late. Hell, they couldn't even beat Valencia at home in the King's Cup (drew 1-1) and Valencia has made a habit lately of really shitty, flat performances. Thanks Ronald Koeman! Let's bench 3 veterans, change the 4-4-2 to some kind of weird 4-2-3-1, play only one striker and bench the other leading goal scoring striker as well as big money signing Zigic, make Silva play in the central midfield where he's not comfortable and put a striker in at right back. It's not like Valencia was winning before you got there... oh wait, they were.

Sorry, a bit of a La Liga tangent. In short, don't count on Barca beating Man. U.

The only game I care about in that draw is Liverpool being crushed by the more interesting, fun to watch and more skilled side in Arsenal.  What odds are they giving Chelsea to win it all?  Might be a good bet to make, fucking hate them most days but still $ is $.

Big weekend coming up.

We've only played Chelsea 3 times this year.

It is preordained that Liverpool will play Chelsea 5 times a year.

Mascherano... what an idiot. Truly you could see that comming from the moment he got his yellow card (have they forgotten their game against inter? Materatzi got sent off for much less that that foul) and wouldn't shut up.

Why the hell would you run across to a ref who has just given a yellow for dissent, then get waved away and still hang about and give him even more dissent. You stupid idiot.

Annoying, as now the news will all be about the sending off and not about the fact that liverpool was being dominated and should have been 2 down if it wasn't for rooney being off form.

agree with you there, no point shouting at the ref for bad decisions, I can hardly recall any decisions being overturned just because the player shout louder.

I don't disagree that Mascherano deserved the second booking for one second. But I lose sympathy with refs when they don't go on to hold everyone else to the same standard. Most obviously Ferdinand and Carragher in the second half, or John Terry in every single match.

As for Man U 'dominating' anyone, meh, if either team played like they did today for the rest of the season, they'd be competing with Newcastle.

What the fuck were you watching? Before the sendoff Liverpool had nardly a sniff at goal and Rooney missed two great chances, one which would have been a penalty to anyone else. And we also scored. After the sendoff Utd completely and utterly dominated play and missed a further 4 good chances. You could say that if we finished like that for the rest of the year then fair enough, but we outplayed Liverpool, no doubt. Gerrard wasn't in the game at all.

To compare Ferdinand or Carragher in the second half to Mascherano in the first would be daft. (and Ferdinand was booked for a marginal foul too). Mascherano was behaving like a little kid. Turning his back to the ref after his first foul, running his mouth nonstop from then, running across the field and getting involved when clearly told to desist; there is no comparison.

(http://i32.tinypic.com/23wp9h5.gif)

He really is a tactical genius isn't he?

Mascherano should have gotten sent off for being a dumbass. He had no business coming up to the ref when it wasn't even him who'd gotten the card. Frankly, I am sick to death of watching a ref get mobbed by players every time he calls a foul, whether it be players bitching about the free kick or players trying to get the ref to hand out a booking. Chelsea is usually the worst offender of the lot, but I've seen it in too many games. Stop holding up the game and get on with it. I'd be quite fine with restricting discussions with the ref to captains only. Really, if anyone should have been bitching to the ref about Torres' booking, it should have been Gerrard. Since he wasn't, Javier should have shut his festering gob.

As for Liverpool being dominated before the sending off... no. Not really. Yes, Man. U. was having the better run of play, but it was hardly a domination. The biggest problem the Reds had was Reina. He looked completely lost out there, from kicks to deciding when to come out and when to sit still. That first goal shouldn't even have gotten close, but Reina just didn't seem to have any clue what he was doing out there. I still don't think Liverpool would have won with 11 men, but they wouldn't have lost 3-0.

ROFL at that pic.

If you have Drogba out there, and he gives a shit, you could climb on top of the divider and jerk off on to the pitch and be considered a tactical genius.

Agree, but it won't change with occaisional random bookings, when the ref is confident he can pick off a single player.

Rule needs to be hard, fast, and consistent, anything more than one immeadiate shout, and anything involving foul language or advancing on the ref = booking.

The Masch sending off didn't even affect the players in that game, who presumably just put it down to randomness.

People in the UK keep talking about some stupid suggestion where only the captain can talk the ref. Wouldn't work because refs won't enforce it.

At that point, the FA should then just start awarding players yellow cards AFTER the game. Once fuckheads started getting 1-match bans for an accumulation of cards, they might learn to STFU.

Sepp Blatter says you aren't allowed to do that.

In other news, Sepp Blatter is a twat.

If you can award extra suspension time because of egregious tackles, like in the Thatcher incident at the beginning of last season, you can sure as fuck award extra yellow cards.

Thatcher was about setting the length of a suspension triggered by a red card. Which for whatever reason, is allowed. So long as you base the decision on the referees report and not on evidence.

You can't do shit if the referee saw it at the time but chose not to send a player off.

And Fifa frown and harrumph and suggest you'll never get a world cup if you push the point.



Looking at TV pictures in any context during or after a game is considered poor form by the idiots at FIFA. On one occasion a few years back at a Bolton game, a 4th official spotted a player cheating on a replay on a monitor at pitch side. All hell broke loose. The guy in question had to swear he saw the offence first hand, no one could do anything about it because they weren't allowed to look at the video evidence of the official staring at a monitor. It's funny shit.

FIFA really does have their head up their ass about using technology to improve the game. They seem to throw a shit fit everytime anyone brings up anything about video replay or goal mouth sensors. I definitely wouldn't want to see replay used like it is in American football, but somethings are just common sense good things.

you talk of FIFA and common sense in the same breath?



The only common sense that matters to Sepp and his buddies is the cash that lines their pockets.

Ronaldo will have to win player of the year. Only some sort of miracle play by Fabergas in the Champ. League will be able to stop him at this point I feel.

I concur with my earlier assessment.

Seconded. God damn if he isn't looking like one of the best to ever play. right now

I think I would take the time to point out I called this way back in the 2006 WC which was before the bandwagon was really rolling and was the first time I'd personally seen him play.  Except I'm not 100% I called it here.


*hahaha you didn't quote it, pig fucking asshole!  Now you can never prove I edited my post to say 2006 WC instead of 2004!

I must have missed the 2004 World Cup.  :grin:

Goddamnit, what a great game. I won't post spoilers for those haven't seen it, but you have to admit no matter which team you rooted for, that was a classic for the ages.

good, entertaining, but I don't think it a classic.

Today will be an interesting day for American Soccer, can they show that MLS has arrived on the continent, or are we still stuck at almost  there.

What's going on with MLS today? I must have missed the news.

second leg of Concacaf Champions cup

DC at home to Pachuca down 2-0.

Houston in San Jose, score tied at 0-0.

DC has everyone but will have to make up the deficit, which CAN be done.

Houston is missing, Onstad, Robinson and Holden. I will be absolutely shocked if they can advance in light of the  situation.


I've got to say It looks like there's a noticeable improvement in the overall quality of play in the league. I also never thought I'd say that the best looking teama right now are The Kansas City Wizards and The Colorado Rapids.

The Rapids looked awesome against the Galaxy, and I'm happy to say that the Fire looked great against New England even before Larentowicz got sent off.

Sidetracking this thread for the moment, it's now not out of the realm of possibility for MLS to actually be a big time league.

You've got some really deep pockets calling the shots. It's just a matter of getting the butts in seats and eyes on the tube. Attendance continues to climb. We'll see about ratings this year. We need good matchups and more Beckham and Blanco games on the Deuce.

The potential is there. There's enough fans of the sport in this nation to make for a very profitable league. You just have to make a product that's of sufficient quality  to attract the followers of South American and Latin American soccer to realize that there's good games here locally. Getting eurosnobs would be nice as well, but frankly I think the Eurosnob isn't going to be bothered with it until  people left europe in their prime for MLS in numbers, which isn't going ot happen. But what can happen is Argentine and Brazillian players making their way here in gradually larger numbers and quality.

 DC United  :ye_gods: was the trailblazer on how to make this happen. Harvesting good talent from  South America and Latin America and bringing them here gives a boost to their quality and  gives followers of those leagues something they can latch on to. The league is starting to develop a rep for hard charging and fast, if not  very technical soccer. But you do see flair showing up in fits and starts. It's better than what it was five years ago by a long shot.

Chicago's got a good balance and a good coach. Blanco amazingly is taking the league very seriously. In fact, all of the DPs I've seen come in  are taking it seriously. It's not Beckham's fault that Alexi Lalas make Isaiah Thomas look like Billy Beane.

Champions League :  :drill:

Anyway, I know we aren't supposed to spoil results until 15 weeks after the matches because some people seem to be waiting for the signal to be reflected off Alpha Centuri. But anyhow, I will say that I wish all matches between the English big 3 + Chelsea were half as good to watch as the Liverpool Arsenal match this week, and I wish they could be played somewhere near the same spirit, and I wish the fans of any of the sides would remain as positive an influence.

Fact is the semi final will be an awful experience, and the potential all English final remains a throughly depressing prospect.

One of the semi-finals will be awesome. One won't.

5 more years and a lot of the kids who are right now playing youth soccer will join the ones who played youth soccer 5 years before that. The youth programs that started popping up everywhere in the late '90's are what's going to be the real driving force behind MLS in the future. MLS will never reach the heights of the big 3 in America, but it can get bigger than the NHL because it can be played anywhere in the country without special rinks or equipment. The NHL really fucked itself with the strike, and that will give MLS a leg up. Hell, it's already a leg up for having a weekly game on ESPN.

I've been trying to watch MLS games when here and there, and I think "not very technical" is a woeful understatement. I'd love to watch the games, but I get disgusted watching teams not able to string together 4 passes before losing possession. It's very aggravating. I can only hope you are right and all those foreign players from South America show everyone how to play properly.

The only saving grace is Manchester United will be the other half of the all English final. Imagine if Chelsea-Liverpool were the final? Ugh. I hope Chelsea beat them. I'm so damn sick of seeing Liverpool flounder about like turds in the EPL and somehow justify making it so far in the CL every year.

If only Barcelona were the team they were last year, the game at Camp Nou at the end of the month could potentially have been an epic game for the ages. Now, not so much I'm guessing.

In the games I've watched so far, the play in MLS has been better this year. It's still butt ugly when you compare it to someone like Arsenal's play, but it's getting there. Beckham being healthy helps a lot. Of course, what would also help is getting every team off that goddamn turf shit they play on in New York and Salt Lake. That shit has got to go, it's like watching a fucking foosball game. I think both teams are getting new stadiums next year. Strangely enough, the turf New England plays on doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as those two.

Holy Shit, actual MLS talk.

Stadium situations are rapidly improving. Salt lake opens in their new stadium I believe in the fall of this year.

(http://www.rslstadium.com/images/RSL_stadium_2008.jpg)
http://www.rslstadium.com/webcam.html


New York's will open next year
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/RedBull-Aerial-People_copyright_SM.jpg)
That one's going to be niiiice.

Houston are in the final stages to get one made right next to Minute Maid Park Downtown.

Seattle will use Qwest field in its soccer configuration, but at 15,000 season tickets and counting they may open up the upper bowl.

New England's turf is FIFA approved. it's the same field as Toronto.

Philly will open in their own park.

If they continue to grow the league the right way and put  the attention on the product like they're focusing on now, long term -30 years MLS will be top three and a premier league in the world, the western hemisphere's counterpart to Barclays. And the US will still not be a world power in soccer :D

When is Philadelphia supposed to start playing? I know about Seattle next year, but hadn't heard about Philly.

Also, I don't think the MLS will be a top 3 World League in my lifetime.

Well here's the rationale behind it.

American Demographics continue to shift more hispanic.

American billionaires continue to build the league (which is now consistently turning out an overall profit) and start to increase salaries.

high profile transfers keep the league in the public eye while the slow build continues.

The key will be when the quality of the teams is such that they can consistantly win the continental competitions. We've been close for a few years now, but the teams need the increased depth from a bigger salary structure. Houston showed that perfectly last night. 1-11 they're pretty good, but when people get injured things can go south in a hurry. Caig was shite between the pipes and the defense is one player deep

but improved performances will draw interest. which increases revenues which increases the depth of the salary pool and so on.

I'm thinking I'll be an old man before it will happen, but I think it's a generational thing.


Remember, fifty years ago nothing was going to knock down horse racing and boxing.

Hey, I'm one of those.  And we even got the ownership to table the dreadful 'Seattle Alliance' and use the Sounders name, which has a lot of history here.

MLS play is always going to look shitty if you're just coming off watching EPL or La Liga.  It looks fine if you've just been watching South American domestic leagues (except the top of Brazil) or J-League.

In my lifetime, I think it's possible MLS will be top 3 (my lifetime is a longtime dontcha know), but I don't think it's likely.  You're talking about passing up the Bundesliga or Serie A and football is by far the number one sport in those countries.  I'd be happy if we got up around 6th.  I've honestly never seen a ranking of domestic leagues that wasn't completely subjective, so you could reasonably argue the current MLS ranking is anywhere from 10 to 40.  Personally, I'd put it behind the top 20 UEFA leagues plus about 5 South American leagues and maybe Mexico.

Congrats on being a Sounders ticket holder. May your team not suck hard right out of the gate.

I think putting the MLS long term as the best league in this hemisphere is what they should shoot for and seeing where you put it sounds about right.

However, I'd like to see us beat some mexican league teams consistently, and that's just not happening right now.

That free kick by Hargreaves was just sick today.

As for the Salt Lake stadium, they really built it in the wrong part of town based upon some bullshit wheeling-dealing.  They may have a hard time surviving out here.

define wrong part of town?

part of the problem with some of the MLS solutions is that they're putting them out in the boonies. Like Frisco for Dallas and Bridgeview for Chicago, but it's better than lines on the field. and sixty thousand empty seats That's what makes me so gung-ho about Houston.

Fulham may still be going down, but damn if they didn't do a hell of a job against woeful Reading.  Damn them for giving me hope.

Most of the fanbase is in the ethnic areas of downtown Salt Lake City. Because Salt Lake City is despised by the rest of Utah as it is perceived as being full of brown people, academics, homos and Democrats (not to mention at the time being run by the Anti-Christ Rocky Anderson), the State Legislature did a back room deal with the suburb of Sandy to put it there while allocating county-wide tourist taxes against the wishes of the county government. Sandy is only slightly less white-bread/Mormon as Provo is. It makes it a big journey through lousy traffic to a place with no place fun to go after the game.

I think the wall was focusing on Ronaldo so much they forgot to jump. Pretty silly when you consider exactly the same thing happened (Hargreaves scoring from that position with Ronaldo over the ball) in a game a little earlier in the season.

If I had to have my house on a penalty I'd want Ronaldo taking it.

Arsenal were really good today though. If they buy a decent Center Back and Forward then they'll be a lot better next year.

Oh it was most definitely successful because of the surprise factor but the dude practically buried it in the side netting. Well disguised and no chance.

Yes, yes it was. Congrats on putting Lehman in there, Arsene, seeing as how it didn't seem to make a lot of difference when it counted. Almunia could have missed that shot just as well.

But really, Adebayor lost them that game. Arsenal looked like Liverpool with the amount of open net shots they missed. Another fucking title to the Red Devils. Fuckers.

Reading losing to Fulham was a heartbreaker. I just don't know what it is about Reading this year, they can't seem to stay consistent. Hopefully Mr. Madjewski spends some money in the summer window.

Chelsea are still just about in it - I hope to hell they beat Man U, because...

1) It just devalues a competition when Man U win.
2) Avram Grant might keep his job - and he is easily the second funniest thing in English Football.



Don't try and reason with me on point 1.

Almunia was injured.

Lehman made two good saves and didn't make a single mistake from what I could tell.

Go Heskey!!!

I didn't realize Almunia was injured, but really, it likely wouldn't have made a difference either way. He can't score 'em.

Also, Avram Grant beating out Sir Alex for a title would really be laugh out loud funny, if it didn't involve Chelsea and Roman Abramovich winning a title as well.

As a side note, I find it quite humorous that the Henry to Seattle rumors continue.

Thierry Henry to SEATTLE?

That's actually more LOL funny than Schevchenko to LA. Henry seriously does not have the body to take the kind of pounding he would take from the MLS's crude defenses. He's barely able to play in La Liga where they have some actual defense.

Gotta love my friend

"This is so much better than bank's annual rates dude!" :drill:
"what are you talking about?"  :uhrr:
"Chelsea v Wigan. Chelsea win 1.20!"  :grin:

We all know what happened.  :awesome_for_real:

In this post massive spoilers:
AND YOU'LL NEEEEE - VERRRR WALK ALONE!!!!
YOU'LL NEEEEEEE- VERRRR WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh SHIT!




Riise is a dead man.
 

ROFL

 :ye_gods:

He's gonna need therapy.  Lots of it.

Sheesh, that was a brutal faux pas…

sheesh, this scheme of alternating shades just owned the hell out of me. . .


belatedly fixed

Who knew the absence of one player could ruin what was meant to be an exciting game?

I can't believe I got up at 4:30, missed sleep and work and got this bloody headache, for all that. Should have snoozed when I saw the team-sheets.

Yeah, Riise. Fuck me. Boring as hell game for 94 minutes, then he shits the bed. Thanks, JOHN! He's had a really poor season all year long. Just atrocious form.

The Man. U. - Barca game was pathetic. Everyone on both sides must have taken the anti-finish pills, from Ronaldo on down.

The Rangers-Fiorentino UEFA Cup match was more entertaining than either of the Champions' League ones.

I haven't seen that many Chelsea games this year, but that was typical of their performance against Liverpool in the other matches.

I believe Liverpool will play better next week.

And if Chelsea don't improve, Liverpool will get through.

Man U - Barca is tougher to predict. But Man U will have to play better next week.

Man Utd - Chelsea was a good game.

Hope it's a one off and Chelsea falls asleep for the rest of the season though.

Fulham keep teasing me, bastards.

Also, This. (http://whoareyadesigns.bigcartel.com/)

There's six shirts here that I will probably get.

Also, just to put it on the radar of some of you.

ESPN2's Thursday game should be a pretty good game. Toronto hosts Red Bull New York in a game that has a decent amount of story lines. Toronto is on a winning streak and has one of the leagues best midfields, while New York is getting several people back including  Angel. Guevara plays the team that traded him out of the league, Altidore looks to be in great form. Combine that with a packed stadium and more thrown paper than anything short of Times Square on a New Years Eve and it should make for a decent couple of hours.

That El Nino shirt is tempting.

I'm really digging the MLS play this year, currently watching the Chivas/Galaxy game from this weekend. Boy those defenses are leaky. I love the Toronto crowds. The damn field always looks like a parade just went through and they pack those seats every damn week no matter how bad the team is. I'm glad to see the team is actually decent. Even San Jose is putting it together.

GO FIRE!

Fire? Fucking Fire?

Oh yeah, Mapp is from there, and they actually play there.

Quality of play is definitely up. Columbus have adapted to Schelotto and that deal is looking more and more like freaking genius.

Anyone who makes Alejandro Moreno look like a great player has got to be strong.

The East is brutal, The west is weak, but  Houston is better than their record suggests.  They need a goal scorer, as it looks like ther D is starting to Gel. Also, Onstad.

And I think more people are going to develop the Deep Love/HATE relationship about Landon Donovan this year.  Also, The Galaxy as the Raiders of MLS. Flashy stars, people with serious personal issues on the starting XI, weird managment and a solid, if unconventional coach. That game against Chivas was great fun to watch.

Poor Brad Guzan went from being signed by Villa to giving up a five spot to the Gals in about two months. He's got to be drinking heavily by now.

Justin Mapp is the man. Ok, maybe he isn't international quality, but he's a good fit for the MLS and he's from about 20 miles away and does bring the Fire down for an exhibition every year. One year I'll actually make it to the game.

I have no worries about Houston, they will put it together. They started the exact same way last year. I actually think Dallas is a better football team, with crisper, more European passing style. Cooper and Toja are awesome. The Galaxy as the Raiders of the MLS is an apt comparison. No one else would have Abel Xavier, I think. And Guzan is better than that, he just needs some help back there.

Going to Houston for three games this year, would be more, but I'm not looking forward to shelling out the gas money.

I keep forgetting about Dallas because they are Dallas and the enemy, but yeah, they're pretty good. Davino has really solidified that back line and Toja, Cooper and Alvarez always make me nervous.


Don't forget that LA picked up Joey Franchino, he of the all night benders and drunken public urination with Gary Flood at the Red Sox Game a few weeks ago.  Guillit didn't even know he'd been picked up, never saw him play even on film until he went to his first  practice and then stuck him in at halftime in his first game. Amazingly, Joey's been great in his time there. Just amazing, though.

It's like MLS is entering that awkward Puberty stage, where you have moments of magic mixed in with the mediocre and occasionally just plain bad.

Also, we've got a real mix of styles going as well. You've got  some real south american/ latin flavor ball in Columbus, Kansas City and DC and almost retro English style (Send 50 Driven crosses into the box and eventually one will be put in) in Houston. Which, if you think about it, is all kinds of fucked up.

I need these

(http://whoareyadesigns.bigcartel.com/account/15876/189402/175.jpg)(http://whoareyadesigns.bigcartel.com/account/15876/173195/175.jpg)(http://whoareyadesigns.bigcartel.com/account/15876/133064/175.jpg)

As a Spurs Supporter, The Magic Juande apeals to me. :)

I'd buy the nutmeg one if it wasn't $20+shipping.

I watched Bolton v Spurs this weekend, wow, that was bad.  I haven't seen any football really in awhile.  Thanks to Basketball/Hockey/general tiredness towards sports...

Spurs have a definite case of not giving a shit right now.

I wouldn't give a shit either if I'd lost Gareth Bale for the season.

Of all  possible ways to emulate Ledly King, Bale seems to have picked the typical Spurs choice of being injured. Why couldn't he pick up "be an annoying drunk at victory party" ?

I'm convinced that the current situation is one of the reasons that European football baffles Americans. Chelsea and ManU are battling for the Premier championship which will be decided based upon the points generated by two games each against scrub teams. Meanwhile, these two teams are set to go head-up for the UEFA Champions League final (played in Moscow even though between two English teams in the same league), which is different from the FA cup which was most recently also a game between Chelsea and ManU, which has nothing to do with the UEFA Cup, which has nothing to do with the World Cup. So Chelsea and ManU within the space of a year are battling for three completely separate "championships."  It makes the head spin if you aren't familiar with the entirety of world-wide football.

I think a lot of sports are like that when you don't grow up with them.

Take the AFL here in Australia:

We have 16 teams in the competition. 10 are from one State, Victoria. The competition takes place over 22 rounds, in which each team players each other at least once, but sometimes twice (always twice if you are one of the big four Melbourne based team - Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood and Richmond) within those 22 rounds. However there is no fixed order from year to year as to when you play a team, or where, and in some cases one team will play another team four times over two seasons before they play another team once. Popular Melbourne clubs like Essendon and Collingwood play interstate only 4 or 5 times a year, while the teams in NSW, QLD, SA and WA will play half or more in other states. After the 22 rounds are complete those teams in the top eight of the ladder will play each other in a finals series to determine that years winner. Those in the top four play each other, with the winners going on to the lest round. Those in the bottom four play each other with the losers going out and the winners go on to play the losers from the top four. The winners of those games then go on to play the winners of the top 4 games for the right to play in the grand final. The winner of that is the years champion. And that's without even getting to the rules of the game itself...


Not sure what you mean by that? Goal difference is the difference between goals scored and goals conceded in all 38 premiership matches.


You forgot to add: Both privately owned, one by a Russian and the other an American. One coached by a Scot, the other by an Israeli. And the two teams between then have only 9-10 players, out of 22, expected to play in the final who are English.

EDIT: P.S. Try and find an explination of how the soccer league in Brasil works if you want something really confusing. It's such a complicated mess that even SI's Football Manager game, which thay've done for 16 years and research carefully and extensivly for every iteration (so detailed that it's databases of players are used as reference points by real life scouts), cannot properly provide a simulation of how they work.

The fact that Chelsea and Man. U. be in the Champion's League final just makes me sick. I'm not sure I even want to watch it after seeing last year's excruciating FA Cup tie. It was almost as bad as the first league of this year's Liverpool-Chelsea semi.

Also, fuck you Rafa for taking Torres out to put in Babel.

Barcelona needs some finishers.

Messi is amazing.

As someone who watches the soccer channels now after a lifetime of non-soccer (maybe playing an occasion in high school gym class like once or twice — basically just running around and kicking the ball as far as I could…) and taking in World Cup every four years (used to be only time soccer would be on TV and even then it would be PBS hourly game caps), I find all the cups and league play and all the different national leagues to be really interesting. It means I can watch games on tape with interest as I have no clue who won them.

You have to give some credit to the Chelsea team for achieving what they have without a manager for most of the season. It's just such a shame they all put on that tiresome affected aggression the whole time - no wonder everyone hates them.

As for Liverpool, if at the start of the season someone had told me our champions league campaign would involve breaking the record for the biggest win ever in the competition, beating Inter home and away, and beating Arsenal in a fantastic 4-2 victory at Anfield, only to play well in a semi but be knocked out by a freak own goal (and another offside goal in normal time second leg), I'd have been happy enough. Plus a Man U - Liverpool final would be the only thing uglier and nastier than a Man U - Chelsea final. So all in all, it's hard to get too upset.

Plus having the season end a couple of weeks early can only help shift the ownership situation along.



As for the Torres -> Babel switch, apparently Torres was feeling his hamstrings. Some managers make that shit up, but I'm inclined to believe Benitez since he has a history of just biting reporters heads off if they suggest he made a bad tactical sub, rather than lying about it. Plus Torres hasn't been rotated or subbed off in 'live' matches since the first couple of weeks of the season - so I doubt Benitez would start now.

It better have been some tight hammies, otherwise it makes no sense. Torres needs to be out there for every second until his legs fall off.

While the particular details of each competition can get complicated (and you didn't even get into shit like Latin American Aperturas vs Clausuras), I think it's pretty nonbaffling, even for stupid Americans, once they get over the hump of understanding that football clubs have an identity out of any particular league.  In US team sports it's universally recognized that a team only exists within a single league at once, and without the league, the team goes away.  If you explain that FCs are more like golfers or tennis players -- who exist outside of a single competition and can be and often are involved in more than one competition at once -- the rest of it falls into place.

Chelsea v Utd on the weekend was a good game, maybe the finla will be as good. Hopefully everyone is fit and firing for both teams and Utd wins 5-3.


I think you have to give some credit to Grant too.


If I had told you at the start of the year you would have been nowhere near contention in the premier league and under pressure for the 4th spot for most of the way, had only just scraped in to the knockout stage in the champions league and then beaten serialy underperforming (in the champions league) Inter over two legs when they had players sent off and injured, then won a great game against an Arsenal side having trouble with injuries and having recently been kicked out of the permier league, and then losing in the semi-final after being unlucky in the first leg but easily outplayed in the second, all while going out in the FA cup to barnsley and having the whole season dogged by issues with the club managment...

I think Liverpool fans should be annoyed at the season. They should have done better in the premier league and FA Cup and they were clearly not deserving of being in the Champions League final if you rank teams according to how well they've played in that competition.

Were you to do the same as this year next year everyone will be very very pissed off. If it's not a good result, why accept it this time around?


Still doesn't excuse him for not subbing Babel or Crouch on in the second half when Liverpool had the momentum (but not any chances) and could have won the game in normal time if you ask me. Pennant on for Benayoun is hardly brave stuff.

Unfortunatly for Liverpool Benetiz doesn't know how to actually win games all that well. It's well and good to get draws and sneak by in the Champions League on penalties (2005, 2007), but it does shit all for you in the league (13 draws, 4, losses against Utd's 6 draws 5 losses).

If I was a Liverpool fan the only reason I'd still want to hang on to Benetiz is for consistency sake, a new manager now wouldn't really help considering the off-field position. That and his ties with Torres (imagine if Utd had managed to get Torres one of the many times they tried!).

On a betting perspective:

Man Utd v West Ham
West Ham is United's bogey team. I could be wrong but it's been a few years since they beat West Ham. Quite surprising and why Fergie is really tense with 2 matches to go and level on points with Chelsea. They want the three points but probably won't take risk since their goal difference too high for the blues to beat. Definitely take West Ham with +2 goal advantage (Pretty bullshit handicap imo). Tevez to start against his previous club, he'll probably score and United will hold on to 3 points to pressure Chelsea who plays much later. If they don't, this could be the end.  :grin:

Utd have to win. West Ham in shocking form. Utd on the up after the win this week.

I think Utd will win easy.

Utd hasn't beaten West Ham for 3 games.

Conspiracy Theory:

Last year West Ham had to beat Utd to stay up. Utd had already won the title. West Ham won.

This year West Ham is safe and can't make the top 10. Utd needs to win to keep the title in their hands. Curbishly (the coach last year) has commented in the media about how Utd "deserves" to win the title and that he is good friends with Sir Alex.

Will Curbs return the favour of last year?  :grin:

this isn't serie A , Lamaros :awesome_for_real:

if you look at italian weekend, Parma (19th)  is in a must win game vs Genoa  (9th), but Parma has 7 players unavailable (they lost the last games from a combination of 4 red cards and shit load of injuries). I don't know wtf is up with the bookies on this, but Parma giving 1.25 goal handicap to Genoa who is still chasing intertoto cup spot? Not to mention their remaining two games are against Inter ( VS AC this weekend) and Fiorentina, Parma is probably doomed. Even if Genoa lost by a goal, punters who ate the 1.25 ball handicap still wins half of their wager. I put my weekend entertainment money on this shit, it'd be gut-wrenching if this goes wrong but Parma is such a trainwreck, they haven't won't their last 5 games and it's past 10 games they've won by 2 goal margin. So fuck parma.

Oh, the Juventus affair last season actually was the only reason Parma still remained in the Serie A, so this relegation should come as a no surprise.

It's been a funny year in the CL, but I grant you Chelsea deserve to do well - but only given they have no manager, otoh, Man U had possibly the easiest run to the final in CL history. So on CL performances alone, I'm not really sure what you mean. On overall performances across all competitions, it's hard to argue with Man U, and it's nice to see the teams without the big European history getting their shot at the big prize, even if it could cost me my favourite line about Man U being just as successful in Europe as Nottingham Forest.  :grin:

I'd agree that on performances before the QF, Arsenal deserved better than drawing Liverpool.

As for the premier league, it is obviously disappointing to drop back to forth, not least because it was down to the same problem as prior seasons (albeit to a lesser degree) of not getting shit together early in the season. But fans have to realise that it happens, and that Liverpool are improving, the chavs played out of their skins this year, and Man U and Arsenal just improved more than us. Anyone who begrudges Man U and Arsenal's success this season is just being a dick. I think Man U and Arsenal are both incredibly well positioned for next season, so while I rather hope we can continue to improve on first half of the season performance, I'm not that hopeful of anything beyond about 80 points, another clear CL qualification, and a more consistent first half.

Man Utd is clearly the best performed CL team. Has not dropped at points at home for 12 consectuive matches. Has not lost away this season.

Liverpool can blame their run on the fact the finished second in their group, so can Arsenal. They made it hard by losing games they shouldn't have lost. (Arsenal at least had the excuse of being up against Seville).

Utd knocked out Lyon, French Champions. Roma home and away, who are second in the Italian league and who knocked out run away Spanish Champions Real. And Barca who everyone acknowledges was playing their best football for the year and was undefeated in the Champions League to that point (and who is second in the spanish league).

Chelsea had a much easier run, Fenerbache and Olympicos, then Liverpool. Chelsea's run is piss easy in comparison, you'd have to be daft to deny that.

Barca had Celtic and Shalke. Liverpool had Inter (who never do anything in Europe) and Arsenal (who were tough). The Gunners at least had to deal with AC Milan, champions league specialists.

Best performed teams in the Champions league in the group stages: Man Utd, Chelsea and Barca - All undefeated.
Best performed who made it to the semis: Man Utd (undefeated), Chelsea & Barca (lost once). Liverpool (lost 3 times).

Easiest runs in order of easy to hard: Barca, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool. But when you consider the fact that Liverpool had that hard run because they didn't win their group liek the other three it ceases to be an excuse.

On basicly any measurement you can make the best performed team is Utd. Followed by Chelsea or Barca. Liverpool's form was restricted to 5 games. The four against Inter and Arsenal and the first game against Chelsea.


Arsenal hasn't had any success this year :)

Liverpool needs at least 3 decent signings I think, and you don't have the money for it. Arsenal needs at least two. Chelsea can do anything, depends if Drogba, Lampard and others leave. Utd will possibly sign another two players.

I think Liverpool can improve next season but I think that the league is still out of your contention. One of Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal will probably improve, the chances they all drop off a low, and Liverpool is still a way behind them all.

ahahah gg.  :awesome_for_real:

You're goddamn right we do, if for nothing other than the front office bullshit. I place the blame quite squarely on Tom Hicks, because he's a complete douchebag of an owner going way back. He fucked up the Texas Rangers and now he's fucking up Liverpool by being a completely classless assmunchkin. They should have done better all through the way, but three things have fucked them up:

1) No true top quality winger - Pennant is inconsitent, Benayoun is more of a central midfielder, and Babel is still learning how to play both midfield and in the English league. Kuyt has done well in this new formation, but he isn't an ideal player for it, imo. He does great defensive work but his offensive output suffers and Babel has no defensive skills and his crossing/passing is weak, as is his possession. They need to get a true right wing midfielder, and maybe play Insua instead of Riise next year. Riise has had a horror show of a season, and I'm just not sure his skills are up to the English game anymore.
2) Benitez's rotation system - Pick a fucking side and stick with it. He's done that pretty well in '08 since he came up with this 4-2-3-1 system, but the early part of the year there was just way too much chopping and changing. Voronin has been a complete wreck, and Crouch has been badly used (as in not at all).
3) Fucking Tom Hicks' ego - nuff said.

As for Man U.'s road to the Final, in specific Barca, they were NOT playing at their best when they faced Man. U. Have you watched them in La Liga this season? They gave up a 2-0 lead to Bilbao for fuck's sake. They've been a nightmare show all season. Ronaldhino has been hurt and is on the way out of the door. Henry has been inconsistent and hurt. They have seriously underperformed, and never even gave Real Madrid a good run at the title. Schalke has not performed that well this year, especially in comparison to the previous year's run that got them into the Champion's League. Celtic actually gave them a run at Park Head but laid down at the Neu Camp. Chelsea DID have the easiest run, but you cannot put Lyon or any French team in the same league as even Barca. Hell, Celtic or Fenerbache could have beaten Lyon, and Liverpool certainly could have. Roma doesn't scare me either but at least they aren't Lyon.

Liverpool's performance was shockingly mediocre to bad most of the year. Their best run was against Arsenal. 

What I meant was that their two games against Utd was their best form for the season, not that they were in good form this season. Look at the weekend, 6-0 drubbing, Utd has played them in to form!

Lyon is a good team with a good recent record in the champions league. Roma is a quality team too. Utd catching them without Totti was handy though, but we had managed them even with him before. Lyon was clearly harder than Celtic, Shalke and at least on a level with Fenerbache. If it wasn't for our history with Roma I'd have put them just as hard as Inter (because Inter has never impressed in the Champions League).

That was not Barca's best form against Man. U. It just wasn't. They couldn't finish for shit, and it wasn't down to United's defense or goalkeeping. There were chances Barca just didn't take or didn't hit.

As for Lyon, no, they are not as good a side as Celtic. Schalke and Fenerbache, maybe. Celtic, nope.

Celtic better than Lyon.  :oh_i_see:

Anyway, who cares now.

Arsenal could drop off next year. Helb and Fabergas to leave, no quality looking like comming in. The squad still too small.

Transfers before next season will be interesting. Looks like Utd is getting the Portugal right back and a striker.

So, we've got Stoke and WBA with the playoff to go. Wouldn't mind seeing Crystal Palace back up in the premiership, although my heart pulls for Jay Demerit and Route 1 Watford to give it another crack.

They are losing Flamini too, but I'm not ready to write them off yet. Hell, I did that this year, and they should have won the title. They might actually have won the title had they not lost Eduardo and their nut with it.

Yeah they should have, I feel like I called Arsenal pretty damn well.  Best looking football, should win title, might not due to lack of toughness/depth and the brutality of the English game/schedule.  I didn't realize just how inept the Arse medical staff appear to be though.  Fucking clowns over there.  Can't believe how good Chelsea's uninspired all-star squad still is w/out Jose.  Hoping for a Utd double because I can't stand watching Chelsea play.  Also praying they lose some fucking talent to wherever Jose turns up.

I get the feeling Drogba will be gone after this season at Chelsea, as well as Schevchenko. Lampard will probably stay. It would probably be a shame if they shitcanned Avram Grant, but if he doesn't win the Champion's League, he's probably gone.

Regarding Arsenal, it is worth remembering that practically every member of the team will be a better player next season; they are almost all younger than their peak. Despite the talk I'll be a little surprised if Helb leaves, and I really doubt Fabregas is going anywhere (though if one leaves I guess you could argue more players would consider their position).

Wenger needs to buy one or two players, but he's not exactly alone in that.

Top 4 next season will still be the big 3 + Chelsea. Though as with Liverpool this year, and Arsenal last year, at some point in february one of the teams will end up with 2 games in hand and only a couple of points ahead of 5th, and the media will get overexcited, like they always do.

I have no doubt man united will win the title next year.
Chelsea: Meddlesome owner, Questionable manager
Liverpool: Same old story
Arsenal: Adebayor, Flamini, Hleb, if they keep losing their talents like these, they'll be a high class West Ham.

I'm already readying my wager on Man United to win the Premiership next year.  :oh_i_see:
This season finale should be quite exciting!

Yeah that was a typo! I meant to say Flamini. Hleb I don't know. Looks like a good chance to go.

I was secretly rooting for Wolves to make the Premiership, just because I think their logo is fucking awesome and Hennessey is a tits keeper.  It would have made for a fun next season.  Their losing out on the playoffs on GD sucked.

Edit:  Should add that I think it's awesome Stoke are going up.  The Promotion/Relegation system is at its worst when the same 5 or 6 teams just churn back and forth between the two leagues (like West Brom and Birmingham).  All that does is create a sort of "Premiership Jr" division that those teams are in and everyone else gets locked out.  Seeing a team that was in League 1 in '02 steadily rise through the Championship is much more satisfying.  Here's hoping they stay in the Premiership next season.

If Arsenal loses Fabregas, they will fall out of the top 4. He's just that fucking good of a playmaker. Adebayor and Eduardo would have been about half as effective without Fabregas this year.

EPL thoughts:
-I don't know why Arsenal would lose so much talent, but I haven't quite started following all the xfer gossip, I'm going to wait until the window actually opens.
-I'm sad that the Gunners couldn't keep their team together enough to challenge/win the title.
-I'm sad that Chelsea's talent buy has proven so effective, in other sports teams like Chelsea (Redskins, NY Rangers etc.) typically suck, I hate it when they are so good.
-I'm glad Ronaldo won all sorts of honors, he is an amazing player, I've been saying that forever.
-I wish Middlesborough had gone down, I hate them, but if Fulham's stupid squad can stay up that'll make me happy.
-I wish Blackburn the best of luck keeping their current players and improving the squad a little, with a bit more depth and one or two more good players they would be another team with a credible chance at top 6.  Ditto to Everton, I think the world of Cahill and Yak is the man so here's hoping I see more of both of those teams on FSC and that they dont have their rosters raped by the bigger clubs, or even worse their players stolen by stupid clubs like Newcastle and Spurs.
-Man it was fun watching Spurs fall apart.  I felt bad for Chimbonda and Keane but fuck the rest of Spurs.  I guess I sort of have to root for Ramos because I got a huge kick out of his Sevilla teams for the last few years.
-I wish Wigan wasn't such trash, for some reason they are my underdog team of choice but god every game I saw of them was pretty terrible.
-Credit to Sven for making everyone in England look like a shit talking chump idiot.  Also for proving that Italians and Brazilians are just better footballers then their English counterparts.  I hope he continues to do crazy shit and sign people I've never heard of and that Citeh make another run next year.
-Props to Haem for being such a Portsmouth backer, didn't see that coming at all.
-I hope Watford make it back up, they tried hard the year before this & I thought they had a good manager from his post match comments.  I'd like to see them have another crack, but they better revamp the roster a little more this time around.

What the fuck time/channel do they show the Championship playoffs on in America so I can try to catch them?

Setanta Sports has them, and they are usually live so it's likely going to be in the morning. I think they play the 1st legs during the middle of the week and the 2nd on the weekend, but couldn't tell you the date.

More than Chimbonda and Keane to root for on Spurs, but even I'll admit there's some douchebags in that team that I'd love to see dissappear.

Finally watched the final Championship game of the season last night. Damn shame my Wolves didn't make it into the playoffs... by one fucking goal. Blearg. As for the playoffs, I'm hoping either Palace or Hull City goes up. If it's Hull City, I'm afraid Frazier Campbell will get recalled by Man. U. He is so damn fun to watch, that kid WILL be playing for a top flight side next season. Of course, I wouldn't have a problem with Bristol City going up as well... from League One to the Premier League in 2 years would be pretty damn impressive. As long as it's not Watford. We've seen what they can do.

Damnit, both Reading and Birmingham are in the drop zone and Bolton is safe. But at least it looks like Reading has a better matchup than Fulham for the final weekend, Derby. If Reading can't even beat Derby, they deserve to go down. Fulham plays Portsmouth and Birmingham play Blackburn, so I'm going to predict Reading survives while Fulham and City drop.

Also, Man. City management is fucking retarded to get rid of Sven. Prepare for City to drop to the bottom of the table next season.

I missed this?  When/why/who/wtf?

If that has happened I hope Citeh fucking gets dropped out of the prem, what a fucking assbackwards move.  If West Ham pick him up they might actually challenge for top6 in a year or two.


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/   Fucking lulz.   Good I like Benfica/Porto/Sporting.  Hope he can give them more of a chance in European football.

Sven was told about 2 weeks ago that he would not be asked back to City, but he chose to finish out the season. So he's gone and signed a 3-year deal with Benfica.

Sven now crosses paths with Freddy Adu.

Just saw this: MLS just got its first  international brand shirt sponsor.

DC United's kits will now sport a Volkswagen logo. Signed a five year, 14 million dollar  sponsorship deal.

If the papers are to be believed, it is all about wages.

Arsenal's wage structure tops out at around £60k/week whereas Liverpool, Man U go up to around 100k, and Chelsea to 140k.

Despite that, and despite the relative lack of depth, Arsenals overall wage bill is broadly the same as Man U (less than Chelsea, more than Liverpool), and their revenues aren't really keeping up (behind Man U and Chelsea, though a good bit ahead of Liverpool).

It looks like they are paying too much money to reserve players, and can't afford to keep the first team in the style to which they would like to become accustomed.

Rumors are Flamini was on about 10k a week before he left. Milan is going to be giving hmi 60k or so...

They live! They live!

God Bless Fulhamerica

But as a side note, what a beating by 'boro.

hahah derby didn't even do anything. fuck em i really won't miss them at all. Useless club like that is just point fodder.
Man city though was a disaster. There was a rumour they were topping the Fairplay table that ensures a UEFA cup spot should they not get a single card at all in the last match.  :grin:  :heartbreak:

Yeah, this is breaking out slowly now, but The red card on Citeh, combined with the fight in the stands on the city side, might just be enough to knock them to third in Fair play.

Should that be true...
Everton already has entry...

meaning it would go to the next one.


LOL FULHAM GETS A UEFA SPOT.

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

I'm pissed that Reading went down but Fulham stayed up AGAIN. That team should so be relegated. Fucking Pompey... can't even beat Fulham on the last day at home. What the fuck was that?

And how the hell did City lose 8-1 to BORO?

Sven probably wanted to be sure he was out, so he could get a job at a club not run by a nutbag. 

What a final.

indeed.

I couldn't make myself watch it. I just hate both teams so much. I Tivoed it, then fastforwarded to the best bits, including Drogba's sissy slap and the penalties. The penalties were good. Ronaldo... ROOFLES.  :awesome_for_real:

My fucking Tivo ran out right when they started the 2nd extra time period. Godfuckingdamnit. At least the good guys prevailed in the end  :grin:

Found this around the net-

(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8854/terryuo1.jpg)

I like Terry, but that is just too funny not to share.

and it's so fucking frustrating, because if he hadn't slipped, the memorable moment would be that fuck CR being too cute for his own good and being  bitchslapped by Cech.

I found this one to be too classic to not link to. It IS work-safe.

http://soccerlens.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/f-funny-cat-3539.jpg (http://soccerlens.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/f-funny-cat-3539.jpg)

 :oh_i_see:  You must be English?

A guy getting a penalty saved obviously conjures a lot of emotions...

Of course, the amazing header he scored, the goals Tevez, Carrick, and Giggs missed wouldn't count? It'd be open season on the "Ronaldo sucks because Cech saved a penalty" season?

Not English, just find CR to be an annoying  little bitch , whose obvious mountain of talent is marred by  by the  general level of douchiness.

Also, I was in Haemish's group. I was hoping W would have launched a sneak attack on Moscow, with both teams being lost in the fray.

With an argument this well thought out what can I do but agree.   :awesome_for_real:

I'm guilty of feeling the same way about some players, its just something that happens with sports.  The problem is though, with people who hate CR or TO or Kobe..  I don't trust that.  If you dislike player X on your own for your own reasons - go with god.

I hated Reggie Bush until he did so many good things for New Orleans because of the games against Fresno State and Hawaii where I watched a top 5 draft pick talk shit to walk on safety's for daring to hit him hard.  I try to never let ESPN tell me who doesn't deserve respect, because ESPN is a bunch of bullshit. 

The CR hate is just trendy bullshit, driven by the English "media" spin machine.  They've never fully gotten over the fact that he had something to say about Rooney stomping on his teammate on the ground.  Fuck that.  Did he need to mature some?  Hell yes but you'd be hard pressed to convince me that he hasn't in these last two years.  He's a hell of a player who honestly works pretty hard in big games.  He was back on defense a ton in the CL final, because I think he wanted to win.  The PK was silly and stupid but its just so damn trendy to hate on him that it pisses me right the fuck off.

I just don't like the schick.

I accept that he's got loads of skill.

Physical gifts are fine, but I've always appreciated professional reserve over "Loook at MEEEE" on the field.

if that makes me trendy, fine.

However, after seeing Terry unload his nose on  Tevez after Drogba got  his red for that sissy slap, I get the feeling that a lot of karma came home to roost yesterday.


Now, time to focus on ML... crap my Dynamo suck right now... ok Euro  and then World Cup Qualifiers it is :)

I am a MU fan and I can totally see why people hate CR. He is the epitome of everything I hate about soccer- the whining, the melodramatics, the incessant diving, etc. God it is infuriating to watch, and downright embarrassing when your rooting interest benefits from unsportsmanlike plays. Rooney is embarrassing in a different way- he is just a dim thug. Watching them actually use their talents for good football is pure joy, however. The play they made together that ended in two brilliant Cech saves in the final was one of the most exciting, beautiful things I have ever witnessed 'live' (was watching on TiVo, but it wasn't a highlight/replay).

You are a fucking tool.

For a Man Utd. fan you must never watch them play. Incessant diving?? Complaining about the fact he gets hacked down every week? Sure, some people just get on with it and don't thrown their hands up in complaint, but that doesn't make someone worth hating.

Avram Grant has been sacked as Chelsea "manager".

Im Shocked. Shocked!!!

Grant never had a chance, especially once he lost the Champion's League. I expect to see a lot of different players on Chelsea next year.

As for Ronaldo, it's the bitch diving I hate. The man is a pure joy to watch from a footballing perspective, but every fucking time he's fouled he gets that whiny bitch face on, and it annoys the piss out of me. He gets fouled just as much as Torres does, probably more, and Torres only puts on the bitch face about half as much. I get real sick of the diving. Some of the Valencia players in La Liga have the same problem, as does Diego in the Bundesliga. But I don't think I've seen it anywhere as bad as Ronaldo except maybe on the Italian national ballerina team.

POSSIBLE ENGLISH PLAYOFF SPOILERS BELOW

Anyway, the lower division playoff finals have been fantastic this weekend. Hull got a much deserved win against Bristol, and goddamnit if you DON'T look forward to seeing Frazier Campbell in the Premier League (whether with Hull or Man U), you hate football. That kid is fucking gold. I really hope Man U either sells him to Hull or let's him stay on loan there next year.

I'm disappointed that Leeds didn't win their playoff, but Doncaster totally deserved that win. J.J. Price looks like a winner in the making.

Are you his fucking mother or something?

Every time I have seen CR play, be it club soccer or national team or what have you, I have seen him dive and bitch and whine. Every. Single. Match.

Apparently I am too American to be able to appreciate the subtle grace of watching a grown man trip over a blade of grass and then throw a fit worthy of a 2 year old.

I feel so freaking good about next year. Luka Modic,  possibly Gio Dos Santos,  So much hope.

MLS and American news...


The US is going to put together a bid for the 2018 cup. It's rumored to be a maassive one, as in gigantic. The purpose as told by Gulati will be to finish what 1994 started. And I think that he would be right. also in the short term this puts a whole ton of pressure on Jack Warner, who just basically accepted ahuge bribe for England coming over to Trinidad to play a game in return for his support on the English bid. Well now, with the US putting up his confederations bid, one that he'd make a mountain of cash from, it's suddenly not in his interest to honor his commitment to the English. Good on Sunnil for putting the screws to the bastard.


Seattle Sounders FC has a shirt sponsor before they field a team. Microsoft. 20 million dollar contract to put XBOX 360 LIVE on the front. Microsoft's first major venture into sports branding.

zzz just give 2018 to Australia. America had it 14 years ago and England is full of hoods.

Can I get a fuck yeah? Not on the Microsoft part, but just on the excitement that team is generating. That sounds to me like they'll have an inaugural season similar to Toronto's in terms of fan support. That's got to be one of the best venues for seeing an MLS game live in North America.

I watched the final and thought it was a great match, but deciding things by penalty kicks just sucks all the awesome out of it for me. I played keeper for 13 years, and I've always thought it was a bullshit way of deciding matches where the teams played that hard. Still, it was a solid match all the way around.

Dan Loney of Big Soccer described it as "After 120 minutes of play, the winner will be decided by an essay contest"

McBride is coming back to America.

Jesus, him at Chicago. with Blanco feeding him, or at  Columbus with Schelotto. . .

McBridge's coming to CHICAGO!??!?!? GO FIRE!!

That's some seriously good news. Hell, they already have a plethora of decent developing strike options with Barrett, that Polish guy and Carr. Adding a good target man like him with Euro experience would be le awesome.

Alll that's clear is that McBride is coming back to America while he still has a good season or two left in him.


It will be up to MLS where he goes.

And that was pretty quick in working out. McBride will be coming to Chicago. Single entity for the win this time.

Le awesome.

Funny thing about FC Seattle Sounders- the last incarnation of Winning Eleven I played, I had a team with the same name, and with almost the identical colors. Now, if they will just sign me to play striker, it will be identical.

You Spurs fans should be happy to note that Richard Dunne is rumored to be heading to Spurs. Of course, he could also go to Newcastle or West Ham, but he'd sure make Spurs a much better team.

There's so much good news from spurs right now that I'm just waiting for it  all to be a dream. Promise promise promise. The promise of  a Huddlestoneless midfield among other things

More non EPL news, but pretty big American news.

Jozy's heading to Villareal. 8 million transfer fee.  (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/sports/soccer/05altidore.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin)

Damnit. I was kind of hoping he'd stay stateside, but no one with his kind of talent is going to turn down playing in Europe. La Liga will be interesting next year. Barca's in a bit of a retooling phase, Valencia is full of good players and a horrible front office, and Villareal was good this past season. Adding Jozy will be money.

plus his team is shit and he's playing on the felt on a concrete slab at Giants.

Yes. He has no real reason to stay, especially not in New York. But still.

Anyway, Mark Hughes to Man. City? Fuck. Not only do I hate Man. City because they play boring football and their owner is a tit who fucked over Sven for no good goddamn reason, but now I really, really hate them because I liked how well Mark Hughes did with Rovers. I'm very afraid Rovers will now fall into shit because he's gone. I was hoping that team would push into UEFA contention next year, but I don't see that happening, especially if they lose Santa Cruz, Bentley and some of their other talent. But if Bentley goes to Liverpool, that will be good.

Villa is going after Friedel

Gio Dos Santos confirmed he will be joining the youth brigade at Tottenham.

Man, I hate that Liverpool has jacked up the price on Scott Carson. He's done damn fine work at Villa and Liverpool is really being dicks about his transfer value. $10 million? Sunderland overpaid for Gordon last season at $9 million. I think Carson is really good, but I'd put James at $10 million before him. If Rovers lose Friedel, Bently AND Santa Cruz, I just don't see how they'll stay top 10.

Dunne's heading to Pompey.

Damn. IF they managed to keep Sol Campbell and James, that team is going to be HELL to score against. Not like they weren't already tough. If they also get Crouch... that team could easily poke into the top 5.

On the Berbatov front, no bids as yet for him. However, if CR heads to Real Madrid, expect SAF to snatch him up in a heartbeat.

Why? Not exactly the type of player Utd needs. We need a forwad like Torres, not Berbatov. And if Ronaldo goes (better get SHITLOADS if he does) then we'll need a winger. Berbatov would be nice, but he's the kind of guy who takes Tevez's place, not fills a gap.

Might as well put it in the EPL thread but is anyone keeping track of Euro 2008 now that it has begun?  Everything is going to form so far but the group of death starts today.  I gather Italy and France would be favored to come out of it but Holland and Romania could make it dicey.  I'm backing France for the whole tournament and rooting for the Czechs, Croats and Greeks to advance respectively.

Also took in the US-Argentine friendly last night... fine effort from our side; a bit flat in the first half and Howard kept them in it with a number of good saves.  But we came out like gangbusters in the second half and in my mind outplayed Argentina.  Ended in a 0-0 draw so there you go.

Watched a bit of Aus/Croa and Ger/Po, and all of USA/ARG. I gotta say, I am sick and fucking tired of watching matches where the surface and/or the incompetent ref are a major story. The Mastroeni red card was bad enough to preclude that joker from ever working a FIFA game again.

Glad I  get to tele-commute Mondays and Tuesdays- some great games in Euro 2008 both days.

The Yanks had the better chances in the second and the run of play. Tim Howard just slammed the door on Guzan getting a sniff for the next cup and then some. I want to see Altidore with a little more development along with Adu up top with Donovan playing behind them with Beasley, Dempsey and maybe Robbie Rogers. The card was horseshit, but I think it's Mastroeni's reputation doing him no favors.

Dolo, maybe Bornstein and our center backs and I think we could do quite well.


Euro 2k8. I was thinking about making a separate thread, but I missed the first day. Austria should feel like they gave a solid effort, but Croatia have to do better or they won't be around long. I do loves me some Luka Modric though, and he's  Spurs now :) So far so good for Spurs' offseason, wouldn't you say?

Eagerly looking forward to todays action.

I wont get to see today's games, because no TiVO and I forgot to record a steam.....   :ye_gods:    I wonder if ESPN is doing a rebroadcast tonight?

Euro 2008:

Group A
Portugal v Turkey:
Simao needs to not suck from the word go, I wanted to see much more of Queresma but I dunno if he's been in bad form or what lately.  There were huge holes in their defense and they did not defend corners well.

Czech Republic wont be able to play that poorly and get an easy win from Turkey, but they could also upset Portugal without me being shocked, this is a weak group.

Group B
Germany v Poland:
Germany is the only team that has played so far that looks like a contender, even they had some obvious weakness.  Their back line and midfield isn't very fast, Klose needs to remember that he's the goal scoring wizard & Jens is going to fuck them at least once.  Poland needs to regroup and recover and they should make it out of the group if Croatia doesn't get better.  There were a great deal of positives and one big lesson (your trap sux, dont do that) to take from that game.

***

USA v ARG:

I feel really good about this game, lots of guys I didn't know who played well.  Messi was too much for our shitty defenders though.  The coach still makes terrible lineup calls.  Fucking why on earth would his son start, quadruple why the fuck doesn't Edu start???  Dempsey played like a fucking c*nt and for once I appreciated the effort of Beasley and Donovon.  I think Freddie needs to start, he's obviously got the raw talent but it took him awhile to get into the game coming off the bench.  I really liked that kid with the long hair that they sub'd in way late, which MLS team does he play for?

If only Altadore had been playing..  Or if Eddie Johnson could have had a better game, he was getting caught offside on every fucking run.  Also our service sucks ass as usual though Landon's corners were better then they often are.  Fucking Tim Howard is the man though.  Once Argentina scores they often become even stronger in attack.  That game could have been 3-0 if he hadn't stood on his head and cut down angles so brilliantly.

Can't believe Argentina is ranked #1 by FIFA, they really need to figure out a better system...   

I think you're referring to Sacha Kljestan. He's at Chivas USA. That's another decent attacking squad. They also have the Cuban defector Mykel Galindo and the 19 year old who won Sueno MLS (the win a job as a player on the team reality show), Jorge Flores, who  came out of nowhere and is playing some great ball right now.

Only in american soccer could you get some guy show up for a TV tryout and not only win, but actually stick, start, produce and be looked at for a transfer to Europe and possible national team time in the span of a year.


Right now, we're England without the talent, but some of the new blood has a decidedly non english playing style. Things like having Robbie Rogers working with Barros Schelotto  and Altidore working with Angel and now Villareal and Adu at Benfica will advance that.

I think you will see a better lineup when WC qualifying starts. 6 subs for friendlies allows BB to tinker and test to find out how different combos work. I would be surprised not to see Adu and Edu start come Barbados. Adu is still a little headstrong, but he is so creative that they almost HAVE to play him. I am not sold on Eddie Johnson up front- he doesn't seem to have the speed on the ball to really break out, and isn't big enough to be a target on crosses in the air (Sasha is a better choice there, imo). Haven't seen Jozy play yet, so I am clueless as to how/where he fits in.

Euro spoiler in small print-


Romania fought France to a draw. Not a ton of chances either way. Italy/Holland up next. Go Orange!

Sacha Kljestan is just a good playmaker, and it helps that his club plays a fluid passing style of offense. The US has some good talent, it's just putting it together on the same field. I think part of it is we may be holding on to some legacy guys like Pablo Mastroeni who just aren't up to their historical form. I find it hard to watch friendlies, so I could be totally off-base.

I want to see who we play against Barbados. Yeah, I know it's fucking Barbados and we should win 6-0, but I think that's when we'll see Altidore and Adu up top.

Altidore has size 6'2 and growing, speed, agility, footwork and one hell of a shot. Pretty good with his head as well. You combine that with the fact that he's extremely well grounded and just turned 18 and it's easy to see why so many people are forecasting great things for him.


I soooo want to read that small print but I have both games set to be Tivoed. My TIVO schedule is slam packed with games to record.

Oh, I forgot who asked but ESPN 360 has the US ARG game  on demand.

Glad I made it small!

More Euro spoilers-

Less than 10 minutes to play, and The Netherlands is just kicking the everliving shit out of Italy 3-0. I am overjoyed! Their first goal was a hideous non-call on a blatant offside, but the 2nd goal was an absolute joy to watch. The 3rd was just insult to injury, which suits me just fine. I HATE the Azzurri.

GAH, you taunt me with your tiny tiny words.

JUst watched it, that was supreme joy to watch. The happiness and warmth as the Dutch just kept  charging and charging and charging.  But he was completely  and totally offside EXCEPT if you think the guy off the field was staying off the field on purpose  Since I say Fuck italy, I  fully support the official decision

Amen.

Uhh what's with the dislike. I hope there are reasons.  :heartbreak:
 
I heard Portugal looked very impressive but didn't see the match myself.

Not liking some of the players personally, well as much as you can do that sort of thing to milllionaires that you'll never meet in person.

Not liking the style of play.

the reputation being  based on some very real incidents.

and then finally, who they are, a little nationalism never hurt in these things  :-)

Hardly, unless you rate Turkey highly.  Their defense looked shakey at times, leaving lots of space for attackers to run onto them and not handling that very well.  Beyond that they also defended set pieces like U-14's.

On offense w/ Turkey rolling their midfield to CR's side (he had 3 people on him quickly almost every time) Simao proved that he just doesn't quite have it.  He often beat the first defender and then wouldn't find a pass, or his service sucked or he lost it to the 2nd one.  Nuno Gomes should have had a goal if he had the finishing of a top tier national side's striker.  He'll need to be better, both at getting open/staying involved and finishing if they want to beat top teams.  All in all they deserved their win and the goals were both very nice but they didn't immpress me enough to want to put money on them making the final four..

Now that was an entertaining game.  Much better than France's game yesterday. 

Looking forward to Czech-Portugal tomorrow night.

Thought this was interesting- Explanation of non-offside call on RvN's goal in the Holland v Italy match. (http://www.euro2008.uefa.com/news/kind=1/newsid=711341.html#uefa+supports+dutch+goal+decision).

I was impressed that for once they (the Italians) didn't bitch and moan non-stop about some stupid conspiracy against them, and how it was totally unfair. Donadoni knew his team played like crap, and wasn't about to blame one decision for his whole team folding. It's surprising progress from a team I've traditionally had nothing but contempt for.

Yeah but that's just because he know's he'll lose his job if they don't get through, so the honesty won't cost him anything extra.

Torres is good

Yes, yes he is.

My prediction is that Germany wins. Spain's offense is teh awesome, but their back line is suspect. Portugal is full of diving bitches that will fold when their vaginas get tweaked. Italy giving up 3 goals is not a good sign, but they could bounce back. I don't think anyone else is in those team's league, other than maybe France. But I can't pick the French team. I just can't.

I'm going to tie my horses to the Freaky Deaky Dutch. It will be glorious, win or lose :)

They are always fun to watch, at least until they crap the bed. They are my default Euro team if England/Scotland/Ireland isn't in.

God, just a heartbreaker for the Swiss. That was a hell of a game.

A Great day of games. And I felt so bad for the Swiss.

Some points:
-I called it right away, Portugal can't defend a fucking corner to save their goddamn lives, this will be their undoing.
-Do feel bad for the Swiss, you wanted to see one of the hosts make it out of group.
-Fuck that ugly blue Turkey has been wearing.
-I still haven't seen the Sweeden v Greece game or highlights, someone want to give thoughts on those teams?
-I don't think the Czech Republic has the overall quality to make a World Cup run, sure lots can change in 2 yrs but I just haven't been immpressed at all.

Here's another bone I have to pick, Villa makes the same facial expressions as CR, he pouts and gesticulates and looks like he's going to cry.  He seems to ask "why me" when the play was only him versus the keeper or the empty net.  Its an Iberian peninsula thing that doesn't bother me in the slightest, they play marvelous football which is all I care about.  The world is full of people who can't do the things they do (hello England national team) or do them with less flash and style.  Yet nobody around here goes on and on about what a fucking terrible twat diving bitch CR is while Villa is just a great striker.  I dont get it.  I think you all are just fucking haters who listen the English media too much and wish he was on your EPL team.

Spain's defense actually looked much worse then Portugal's unless the Russians are as good as some football mags/sites/pundits want me to think.  Also if you ignore the fact that Portugal can't defend a corner to save their lives.  Right now Germany is still a good pick (what I was thinking at the start) but if France finds an attacking edge in their game I think they'll become my pick.

It was an interesting thing I'd never heard before that Spain's national team woes had something to do with beef between Real and Barca players in the past.

There was some real underlying tension in the  US effort to play that friendly last year with Catalonia in Barcelona. That it made it as far as it did before it got smacked down is one of the underlying forces that I see continuing to affect not just Spain's national soccer team, but its national identity as well.

That shit's not over down there. A Catalonian Havel leader type could  make for some interesting politics. Alas, wrong forum for that. But  it does fit together so well.

Also, Sweeden and Greece was dreadful and dire until Ibrahimovich  caught a Greek midfielder ball watching and made him pay.

The second goal was just picking weakened locks as the Greeks started to press.

Spain and Portugal have lapses on defense, Portugal's will probably get them kicked out first.

I think more people bitch about CR is because more people actually SEE him play. The only reason I see Villa play is because Valencia is my Spainish team of choice and I catch them on GolTV whenever I can. AFAIK, Gol is the only outlet to see La Liga in this country and you have to actively seek it out on satellite, whereas Fox Soceer Channel can be gotten on some cable systems. I've always thought Villa looked like the biggest douchebag in the world for his facial expressions, he just isn't in the spotlight. If he was at Barca, Real Madrid, Liverpool, Chelsea or Man. U., you'd hear more about him. However, when he scored that second goal against Russia, he ran over to the bench and hugged Torres (who had been subbed out after an hour) in a show of comradeship. That puts him above CR to me.

Also, CR is on Portugal's team, and the only team with more divers is the Italian team and an Olympic diving team.

This.

I had never seen him play (that I remembered) until his hat trick day, and I was working with the TV on in the background and so didn't see much actual run of play stuff.

Wow at CRO v Ger. I loathe the Germans too, so this makes me happy. 

Picked today  as my day to do lots of actual work to cover for my Euro 2008 viewing, so I'll just have to wait until tonight to read that :)

Yeah, I am back in the office today and tomorrow so I can't watch live. This sucks!

Spain's defense just looked bad, the worst defensive peformance top to bottom of any of the "favorites" so far, except Italy, I guess. Hehe.

Their left back just doesn't seem to be a good player, Capavilla or whatever, not familiar with him.  Puyol is starting to ride name recognition, he's like a less annoying version of John Terry at this point.  The back line was just so damn suspect, if that black holding midfielder hadn't played a damn good game they would have been in all sorts of trouble.  Petit looked shakey a bunch in Portugal's second game but overall I thought they did a better job if you ignore the corners.  God they need to fix that.

Good point about the whole Catalan thing, I have a friend who is Basque, sometimes I think he's made me block that shit from my mind after hearing too many drunken rants.

I'm glad you all can admit that your fucking idiots who buy into the OMG! Stiff upper lip or else!  Nonsense of the English media..  Except Haemish who pretends that somehow Portugal and CR in particular are the diviest fucks that ever dived.   :awesome_for_real:

I admit nothing.

and Ronaldo tried his share of dives against the Czechs, but the were all further out and of less consequence.

I think the spat about the corner kick, the one  that had Simao lining it into the wall shows some further seeds of unhappiness with Iberian diving team A  :grin:

He also played a big part in all three Portugal goals.

I'm a big fan of CR, Deco and Carvahlo, so I'm going for Portugal this Euro (despite having much closer ties to Italy and The Netherlands by blood). I enjoy watching the team play though the diving does of course annoy me (but not UEFA's head Platini, it seems)

The only thing worse than Spain's defence was Russia's. But Russia has a good coach and should at least improve. Spain is forced to rely on the brilliance of some of their players. I love watching Torres play though, so hopefully they get it together this year and do ok.

WUP is there any country you don't loathe?  :grin:


But what does that have to do with them winning the tournament? Drogba and Ballack did worse and came within 1 match of the premier league title and only the woodwork stopped them (three times) from winning the champions league.

Spain's other center back, Marchena, plays on Valencia. He's as much of a holding midfielder as he is a center back. For some reason, Aayla (who used to be on Valencia) isn't being used and should be. He's good.


No, that would be ITALY. Those are the divingest divers you've ever seen. Portugal is just full of shitheads. That game in World Cup 2006 against one of the Nordic teams is where they get that rep from for me, the game where there were like 3 red cards and tons of almost fights. Also, Portugal isn't playing Miguel in defense, and I think he would help.

I had forgotten about that game...that was a brawl. No wonder I don't like Portugal. I do hate Italy more, however, mostly do to their gold-medal diving performance against the US in the last WC.

Err, you're not getting confused with the Portugal v Netherlands match are you?

The Netherlands is not Nordic.
Netherlands had as many players in trouble.
A large portion of the blame goes to the ref, not either side. (The game was a Farce of the worst kind).

Kinda lose credibility as an observer when you base opinons off something you can't remember properly.

Glad I didn't spoil myself yesterday for the Germany-Croatia match I DVRed.  Holy awesome, that was great fun to watch!  The final 10 minutes were gripping.  The Tablecloths are my new favorite team.

Looking forward to France-Holland today; I had France as my team originally but after watching the Dutch punk the Italians I have to admit I'm kind of hoping they'll roar out of this group now.

FUCK!!! I forgot to set my TiVo for France/Holland. That is going to be a great game. DAMMIT.

that's why I can access my tivo via yahoo and fix things like that.

I really need to get my home network set up. One of these years...

That's the one. I couldn't remember the other side. World Cup 2006 was my first soccer watching. That game was badly reffed, yes, as was most of the World Cup. But the players also have to take some serious blame for being complete cockholsters, on both sides. The only reason I don't hate the Netherlands team as much as Portgual is because I don't get to see them as much as Ronaldo or Deco.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKXq7xcnkis

I'm suspecting a Dutch v. Portugal final, so maybe we'll get a sequel!

Portugal's defense won't be their undoing if they keep scoring goals. It's like how Real Madrid played in the early 00's. Go ahead, get a few past our shoddy backline. We don't care. We're just gonna turn around and score more.

That would be very entertaining. Might be 10 goals scored!

Yeah, that's the stuff. See, you watch that video and yes, the ref was abysmal and totally lost control of that match. BUT... a shitton of those fouls were either mean, deliberate fouls or the result of complete loss of personal control by the players. That game was a huge shit sandwich.

Italy v Romania was a keeper's game. I didn't understand why the gave Man of the match to Pirlo when it's supposed to be Buffon or that Romanian keeper. They both kept their side in the game. A loss would've meant the end in this grp. Credit to Buffon for that awesome penalty save Mutu would've been crushed.

Holland was simply amazing. France had no chance. They're not the same side anymore. Nistlerooy and Dirk Kuyt was already enough to scare any defense but add in Persie and Robben on 2nd half = Massacre. I was stunned when French scored a goal, but Robben's reaction was awesome.

You know a goal is awesome when ROBBEN can't believe he actually scored  :awesome_for_real:.

The Dutch are in dreamland.  The whole exchange leading to the second goal with Van Nistlerooy flicking the ball back in to Robben's cross to Van Persie's goal was sublime and then Robben's goal mere seconds after Henry netted one was absurd.  I thought the quality of the announcers really added to the match as well.

This makes Italy v France very interesting indeed.  (The final group play matches go off simultaneously, correct... so they will be playing at the same time as Netherlands - Romania?)

I think a gritty Romania combined with a Dutch team  mentally looking ahead to the quarters equals  France and Italy saying  bye bye.

Yeah, I dunno, Dutch reserve still look strong. If Adrian Mutu can't sore, I doubt anyone else can in the Romanian squad.

Did anyone else think the Romanians shouldn't even have been given that penalty? Seemed like a shitty call to me. Good game otherwise, and the Italians didn't do as much diving as I've seen them do in the past. Mutu looked like he'd been castrated when he missed that penalty.

Romania stands some chance, they showed impressive quality in midfield and enough creativity up front to deserve to score, I can't figure out what is wrong with Italy though.  I mean they have so much talent yet suddenly NOBODY on the entire team knows how to put a header on frame?  Wtf was that.

Spain spain spain...

That game illustrated exactly why they will not win this competition.

Sweden is dangerous if they get past Russia, not to win it all but they could have a 1-0 or 1-1 pk upset in them.  That defense really maintains their positions with such patience and discipline, too bad Freddie Ljungberg just isn't that good any more, they really need two wingers since their central midfield really doesn't create anything.  They deserved to get a point out of that.

Russia will be a dark horse to get out of their group come WC2010, depends on what their group is but they honestly are solid for such a young squad.  Good riddance to Greece even if they didnt' play too poorly.  The Sweden versus Russia game will be quite fun as a result.

re:  The Dutch.   

I've seen this before, they usually stop playing this well as time wears on, but damn if they aren't in rare form atm.  Scary stuff.  Portugal still wont make it to the finals, in fact being matched against Germany (likely) is pretty cruel.  They'll need to score early because Germany will put at least one if not 2 past their woeful fucking set piece and/or aerial defence.

Sweeden. Fuck. Me. So boring. BS Sweeded deserved a point. At least Spain gave it a shot.

The Dutch will probably do an Argentina.

Villa finally showed up after 90 minutes of anonymity. That game got real boring in the mid-parts, as Spain farted about with lots of passing that went nowwhere through much of the game. But be fair, Spain deserved a penalty kick at the death of the first half. Silva just got flattened. Other than that, Sweden played pretty well, but without any real threat except on set pieces. If Puyol is out for any length of time, I'm not sure how well Spain will do. Albiol is decent, but he and Marchena are not what I'd call solid.