f13.net

harbringer of the next expansion

You mean playable class ?

My Prediction  : That's Rubbish.

What are the features of the new expansion?

Wrath of the Lich King builds on the rich foundation established in World of Warcraft and The Burning Crusade, providing a wealth of new content for players to explore. The harsh, forbidding continent of Northrend, home of the Lich King and his undead minions, will be uncovered on the world map, and to contend with the new challenges found there, players will be able to advance to level 80, acquiring potent new abilities and talents along the way.

In addition, Wrath of the Lich King will introduce the death knight hero class to World of Warcraft. Once certain criteria are met, players will be able to create a new death knight character, which will start at a high level. Furthermore, player-vs.-player battles will reach a new level of intensity with the addition of siege weapons and destructible buildings, not to mention a new battleground. There will also be an abundance of new quests, dungeons, monsters, items, and recipes -- as well as a new profession, inscription -- for players to try out. The expansion will include some additional character-customization options for players as well. We'll be going into more detail on all of these features in the months ahead.

How will the death knight class fit into the game?

The death knight combines martial prowess with dark, necromantic energies. Players might be familiar with the death knight from previously released Warcraft games -- most recently, in the campaigns for Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos and the Frozen Throne expansion, the former paladin Arthas became a death knight and wreaked havoc across Azeroth and Northrend before fusing with the spirit of Ner'zhul to become the Lich King. The death knight is the first hero class in World of Warcraft; once certain criteria are met, players will unlock the ability to create a new death knight character, which will begin play at a high experience level. We're currently exploring various options for how the death knight will play and the types of abilities at its disposal, and we'll be revealing more information about this new class as we get further along in development.

Will the death knight have any abilities from previously released Warcraft games?

The way we portrayed death knights in past Warcraft games is certainly a source of inspiration, but we are still determining how best to capture that feel within the mechanics of World of Warcraft, and haven't made any final determinations on specific abilities.

What role will the death knight play in groups and raids?

In general terms, the death knight can be considered a type of class that combines damage dealing and tanking, but naturally it will have an array of unique abilities as well.

What races will be allowed to play death knights?

We haven't yet made a final determination about which races can be death knights. However, the class will be available to both the Alliance and the Horde.

Will there be additional hero classes in the future?

Yes, we do intend to add more hero classes in the future, but right now our focus is on the current expansion.

What is the story background of the expansion?

Players last visited Northrend in the Warcraft III expansion, when Arthas Menethil fused with the spirit of Ner'zhul to become the Lich King, one of the most powerful entities in the Warcraft universe. He now broods atop the Frozen Throne, deep in Icecrown Citadel, clutching the rune blade Frostmourne and marshaling the undead armies of the Scourge. In Wrath of the Lich King, the greatest champions of the Alliance and the Horde will do battle with the Scourge amid Northrend's howling winds and fields of jagged ice, and ultimately face the Lich King himself.

Will players actually get to encounter Arthas himself?

Players will be skirmishing with the minions of Arthas from the moment they set foot on Northrend. He will be a constant presence as players progress through the expansion content -- which will culminate in a showdown with the dread Lich King himself.

Can you discuss some of the new talents and abilities that will be available from level 70 to level 80?

As with character advancement up to level 70, players will gain access to an array of potent and exciting new abilities and talents as they make their way from level 70 to level 80. However, it's still too early to get into specifics on these.

How long will it take to advance from level 70 to level 80?

We were pleased with the pacing from level 60 to level 70 in The Burning Crusade, and we intend to take a similar approach to pacing character advancement in Wrath of the Lich King. However, the specific amount of time that it will take players to reach level 80 will vary widely based on play style.

What can you reveal about Northrend?

The first area of Northrend we're showcasing is the Howling Fjord, a region of grasslands overlooking massive cliffs at the southeastern edge of the continent. This, along with the Borean Tundra, is the front line of the war against Arthas, and players will come face to face with his minions as soon as they set foot on Northrend. Eventually, as players progress further, they will explore the Grizzly Hills, Dragonblight, and more. We'll be showing off some of these new areas in the months ahead.

What's the level requirement to enter Northrend?

Players of any level who have purchased the expansion can visit Northrend. However, all of the content is designed for players level 68 and up.

How many new dungeons will be in the expansion?

The first dungeon players will enter is Utgarde Keep, which is intended for five players around level 70. Utgarde is inhabited by the Vrykul, a Viking-like race bent on proving their strength to the Lich King, who will raise the most worthy of their warriors to serve him beyond the grave. We intend to provide a variety of dungeons comparable to that in The Burning Crusade and will be revealing more details about some of these in the months ahead.

Do you plan to continue with the 25-player model for raids?

Yes, we've been pleased with the tactics, intensity, and variety of the 25-player raid model, and plan to continue with it.

In what ways will players be able to further customize their characters in the expansion?

In addition to the numerous new character-customization options that will be available with all of the new weapons and armor added by the expansion, we'll be offering some fun ways to alter both existing and new characters with regard to dances and hairstyles, but we're not ready to go into more detail just yet.

What can you reveal about the new profession coming with the expansion?

Inscription allows the player to permanently enhance their spells and abilities and to create mysterious items of power to use, trade, and sell.

What can players expect with regard to player-vs.-player combat in the expansion?

Players will be able to take control of siege weapons and use them to destroy opposing buildings, adding a new layer of complexity to PvP battles. Naturally, we'll be providing some fun places to put these new tools to good use, and we'll be revealing more information about them in the months ahead, in addition to the new battleground content being added.

Can you give a sneak peek at the new recipes and items in the expansion?

There will be hundreds of new recipes and thousands of new items available, but we're not ready to discuss specific examples just yet.

Will there be any graphical enhancements

There will be hundreds of new recipes and thousands of new items available, but we're not ready to discuss specific examples just yet.

How many zones will be in the expansion?

Northrend will be roughly equivalent to Outland in terms of size and scope.

Will there be any new cinematic scenes?

Yes, our cinematics department is hard at work preparing a new intro movie for the expansion.

Release/Availability

Do you need to own the expansion to play with friends who have it?

There will be many aspects of the expansion that will be available to all players. However, in order to experience certain content, such as Northrend, or be able to play as a death knight, players must purchase the expansion.

Will there be an open beta test of the expansion?

We have not yet determined whether the expansion will require an open beta test. If we do decide to conduct a beta test, details will be posted on the official World of Warcraft website once we've gotten further along in the development process.

When will the expansion be released? How much will it cost?

We have not yet announced a release date for the expansion set. However, we expect to announce further details, including the release date and price, on our community website in the months ahead. Please stay tuned to [link] for more information.

Will there be a collector's edition?

We have not yet made any determination about whether there will be a collector's edition of Wrath of the Lich King. We'll be announcing details such as this closer to release.

Will a Mac version be available simultaneously with the PC version?

Yes. As with all of our games, Wrath of the Lich King will be compatible with and optimized for both the Windows and Macintosh platforms.

What are the system requirements?

We'll continue to ensure that the game is playable on a wide range of hardware. However, we have not made a final determination on the system requirements as yet.

Will the expansion be released globally at the same time?

We recognize that players throughout the world will be eager to experience all of the new content being added with Wrath of the Lich King, and we will make every effort to release the expansion simultaneously worldwide. However, there's always the possibility that unforeseen circumstances could delay the launch in any given region. We'll share the launch timing with players in each region as soon as the plans have been finalized.

What is the ESRB rating for the expansion?

The expansion has not yet been rated by the ESRB. However, we anticipate that it will receive the same rating that the original World of Warcraft received -- "Teen."

new class - Death Knight.

In addition to the numerous new character-customization options that will be available with all of the new weapons and armor added by the expansion, we'll be offering some fun ways to alter both existing and new characters with regard to dances and hairstyles, but we're not ready to go into more detail just yet.

I can guess at the answer to this question before I aske it, but I just have to do it.  Has there really been a lot of uber guilds making it through The Black Temple already? 

Man, my guild is still choking on Karazhan and will be throughout the rest of the summer and well into Fall.  We are having fun, but I can't even list the  amount of content I haven't even begun to think about.

I agree.  Make one huge uber dungeon, but create more of the Karazhan types and lower.  Us casuals can feast on those for a very long time.

Interestingly a few people in my guild who are going to Blizzcon got an email telling them they'd have the chance to copy level 68-70 characters to a special event realm for some new content demo at Blizzcon.

Deathknights in the Alliance make absolutely no sense.

Neither do warlocks. v:|v

Yeah, sounds like time for an expansion.  :roll:

That would be my position, Raiders haven't gone through all the raid dungeons? I care why? Average Joe has gone through all the TBC five mans a dozen times each by now, and is starting to attempt the heroics and possibly Karazhan. He's probably gotten his second 70 by now as well. By the time the new expansion comes out, Average Joe will be just sick enough of all the TBC content to be ready to move on.

"Oh No, I'll never see the Black Temple before the new expansion!" is not a concern for the overwhelming majority of WoW players.  :-P

So um...why make it?

Amazingly, I was hoping it'd be longer before another expansion myself. Shit, it took forever and a day for BC to show up and I still hadn't set foot in BWL more than once.

My guild is just now doing Karazhan semi-regularly and getting in on alliance Gruul/Mag (neither of which I've even seen in game). I'd like to actually see this content before moving on.

I just can't imagine an expansion that increases the level cap - like MC/ BWL with the advent of TBC, existing raid content would again become trivialized and ignored.  A real shame.
[/quote

Frankly, I don't care, as a non-raider.  It's not like I ever will see the raid content anyway. 

Whereas, raising the level cap and putting in new instances is content everyone will see.


 :dead_horse:
The whole raiding mechanic - gathering 25 people nightly to learn an instance, and 5 pieces of loot drops - is flawed, in my opinion, which is why I don't do it.

As a general note, if, and I really mean if, they make hero classes "unlockable" through doing stuff in game, they better make very, very sure that whatever you need to do can be done solo by a player in AH greens each and every step of the way. That's assuming they ever actually make the hero classes.

We'll find out tomorrow anyway - or today, if the leaks from the previous Blizzcon are repeated. ;)

A few things. Didn't Blizzard say sometime in the last year that they ultimately scrapped the idea of hero classes? That the talent system really ended up superseding it?

Here's the fucking deal :  If we actually get Hero Classes within the next TWO expansions, I'll Fly over there and buy you all drinks.

Hero Classes is the fucking carrot in front of the donkey.  Except the Donkey is a screamingly stupid fanboi who remembers WCIII with all his penis and the carrot is fucking IMAGINARY.

It's comical how people complain about slow development but also complain when content comes quicker than expected.

WoW: Wrath of the Lich King Revealed
New Hero Class, new continent, new level cap, and more!
By GFW Staff, 08/03/2007
It's official: The next World of WarCraft expansion is coming; it's called Wrath of the Lich King, and will open up the continent of Northrend to players of level 68 and above. This second expansion will focus on the return of Arthas Menethil, a.k.a. the Lich King, ruler of the Scourge, and one of the most powerful beings in all of Azeroth. This semi-sequel to the saga of Arthas (from WarCraft III: The Frozen Throne) is intended for experienced players with a couple level 70 characters in their pockets.

The September issue of Games for Windows: The Official Magazine (on sale soon) has tons of details, but for now here's a quick rundown of what's in store....

    Level Cap: 80
    Skill Cap: 450
    Continent: Northrend
    Number of Zones: 10 (tentatively), for levels 68 and above
    Profession: Inscription
    Class: Death Knight (first-ever Hero Class)
    Features: Outdoor PVP zone with siege weapons and destructible buildings.
    Release Date: You're kidding, right?

The biggest news for existing players is the introduction of the Death Knight, the first new class since WOW's launch -- and, coincidentally, its first Hero Class, too. Other big new features include the introduction of siege weapons and destroyable buildings in both a new Battleground and a brand-new outdoor PVP zone. What Wrath of the Lich King won't have is any content for new characters: no new races, no new level-1-to-20 zones back in the old world, and little change to the old world.

Here's what we know so far:

The Story
Having cleaned up Outland (or at least having set things in decent enough order for now), the Alliance and Horde turn their heads northward to the continent of Northrend, where a terrible threat has gone unchecked for far too long: that of Lich King and his undead army, the Scourge. On the day Wrath of the Lich King launches, players will be able to set sail from various points in old Azeroth and join the fight against Arthas Menethil.

New Continent: Northrend
Having learned a valuable lesson about funneling 8.5 million players into once single starting zone with The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King lets players pick a zone on either side of the continent to start from: Borean Tundra in the west or Howling Fjord in the east. Each zone has level-equivalent quests (appropriate for approximately level 68 through 72) and one Hellfire Peninsula-style instance hub with multiple dungeon wings for level 70 characters, level 80 characters, and raiders. While Northrend immediately calls to mind ice and snow, Blizzard doesn't want to make those themes dominate Northrend completely-expect as much variety as ever, only not quite as weird and wild as Outland.

Northrend's indigenous inhabitants include a Viking-like race called the Vrykul: 15-foot-tall humanoids with a strong Norse influence. Most Vrykul you encounter will be your enemies, as they've been in Northrend so long that the Lich King holds a lot of sway over them. Another friendly race -- the walrus-like Tuskarr -- will serve as a cute little counterpoint to the lumbering undead-loving oafs.

New Zone Type: Outdoor PVP
One of Northrend's 10 new zones (final count still tentative) is an outdoor PVP zone that introduces the concept of siege weapons (Meat Wagons, Steam Tanks, etc.) and destructible buildings. Blizzard describes the outdoor zone as basically a "non-instanced Battleground" where completing objectives earns world-wide bonuses for your side (Think Spirit Shard buff in Auchindoun instances). The PVP zone is entirely avoidable (if you're the carebear type), and seige weapons won't be useable outside their designated PVP area.

New Hero Class: Death Knight
World of WarCraft's first Hero Class is a plate-wearing tank/DPS hybrid that works a little something like this: When players hit level 80, they'll be able to embark on a quest (similar in difficulty to the Warlock's epic mount quest, back before the level cap was raised to 70) that unlocks the ability to create a Death Knight character. The Death Knight starts at a high level (somewhere around 60 or 70, though Blizzard isn't certain yet), so you won't have to grind your way back up all over again. It's intended as an alternative, advanced class for end-game use only.

Rather than using rage, energy, or mana, Death Knights have a special "rune sword" displayed beneath their health bar, onto which the player can etch six different runes (choose between Frost, Blood, and Unholy). Different abilities require different mixes of runes, and using abilities consumes the requisite runes until a cooldown timer causes them to be available again. Stuff like talents, spells, and other specifics are still being finalized. So are key questions like what races can be a Death Knight (start a Gnome petition now) and whether unlocking the Hero Class on one server means you can create a Death Knight on any server.

New Profession: Inscription
Wrath of the Lich King will introduce a new profession called Inscription that will let players customize individual spells and abilities in their spell book -- to change the cooldown timer on a Fireball, for example, or alter the crit rate of a healing spell.

There's lots more in the upcoming September issue of Games for Windows: The Official Magazine, on sale in the next couple weeks, including candid insight from the developers, details on some of the new dungeons not shown at BlizzCon, and word that The Burning Crusade ain't over yet...there's more BC content coming beyond Zul'Aman.

"It's intended as an alternative, advanced class for end-game use only."

A special class for the raiders? This sounds like a giant shitstorm. I hope I am misinterpreting this.

"It's intended as an alternative, advanced class for end-game use only."

A special class for the raiders? This sounds like a giant shitstorm. I hope I am misinterpreting this.

Meh, i read it as an alternative to raiding personally. 

Meh, i read it as an alternative to raiding personally. 

Level Cap: 80

I read it as "You won't need to level up through STV again" :)

I'd rather level up form 1 again than deal with the shit you'll have to do to unlock it. I don't give a shit "that it won't be any harder than the warlock epic mount when the cap was 60". I demand something that's not any harder than picking "Death Knight" on a character creation screen, finding a name that hasn't been taken on a release server, and clicking "create Character". Or make it like DAoC so when you have one guy to level 80, you can start a new Deathnight off at 70 or whatever. Anything harder than that and the fucking thing better solo raids like I'm playing Diablo.

Jesus, WAR can't go open beta fast enough. This piece of stupid shit announcement effectively ends WoW for me forever when it's made official.

I am so glad they finally got the guild halls and shared bank stuff in. Phew. As important as guilds are in this game, and seeing as how everyone is part of one, it's a relief to know they really focused on the nagging bits that should have been part of the game since release.

Wait, what?

Some interesting info on wowinsider's current liveblog http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/08/03/liveblogging-the-blizzcon-expansion-demo-panel/ (http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/08/03/liveblogging-the-blizzcon-expansion-demo-panel/)

Looks like you definitely won't have to raid to get the DK.

Here's something stupid I never thought about: So, are Death Knights going to be more powerful than regular classes? I mean, does "hero class" simply mean they're a special class you gotta unlock first, or does it mean "hero" as in "way fucking stronger"?

Looks like more powerful, but over a shorter time period with longer cooldowns. Which, if you're dealing with arena PVP is fucking stupid.

The preview vid shows the DK calling-down undead from nowhere, and it was mentioned in that liveblog as well.  Plate + Healing nullification + Druid Trees.. what else can they toss in there?  Who knows, i'm probably just overreacting but it's still insane.

Oh, and you think 5-man SMV quests are bad, try getting a 60-69 instance group together.  If you don't say "Heroic" people pretend you don't exist.  I'm very ready for WAR to come around.  Despite still liking the overall mechanics of WoW, BC is broken in some pretty big ways.

1:41pm: Q&A Time. More work done towards midlevel content? Yes, we may do more of that before the expansion, but we want players to roll up. Will be changes coming to speed up 1-60 and 1-70.

I've never been at a shortage of people wanting to hit non-heroic Ramparts, BF, Slave Pens (rep, remember)...

Yeah, sounds like time for an expansion.  :roll:

Deathknights in the Alliance make absolutely no sense.

That whole faq sounds bogus though.  I don't believe they'll raise the level cap unless they think it'll take a long time to finish the expansion.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/faq.xml

Ok.  I'll go from 'That'll never happen because it's retarded' straight to 'that's retarded.'

Fuck Sake.

Damn I was wrong about the Hero Class being fake. As long as there are other Hero Classes that'll come in time, it won't be so bad maybe.

When's this launching? Next spring? Looks like a lot of the world stuff is done, but not enough details on the one or hopefully-future Hero classes.

Anyone getting that same contraction of the scrotum we all felt around the time that Planes of Power was announced? No, Signe, not you.

One question: why does everyone seem to think WAR is going to be robot jesus?  The next big thing never are.

As a general note, if, and I really mean if, they make hero classes "unlockable" through doing stuff in game, they better make very, very sure that whatever you need to do can be done solo by a player in AH greens each and every step of the way. That's assuming they ever actually make the hero classes.

I've been off of WoW since January but eager to come back when the next content rolls out. Maybe I'll even finish the last third of a level I need to hit 70.

I demand something that's not any harder than picking "Death Knight" on a character creation screen, finding a name that hasn't been taken on a release server, and clicking "create Character".

Jesus, WAR can't go open beta fast enough. This piece of stupid shit announcement effectively ends WoW for me forever when it's made official.

even more ridiculous shoulderpads.

Which anyone who skipped raiding can surpass in the first questing zone of the next expansion, while the shoulderpad dungeon becomes instantly irrelevant. And no, that's not how other dikus work.

They don't care about your "demands". Neither does anyone else. Maybe you can pay p3ons4hir3 to unlock it for you, as long as they don't use any addons to do it, it won't be "cheating".

Sorry Iron - had to quote you in light of the recent release info :)

Tom Chilton and Jeff Kaplan must be the dumbest motherfuckers in the whole goddamn MMOG industry; they're *giving* WAR and AoC the openings needed to become the Next Big Thing, all for the sake of subsidizing the raiding lifestyle of their old gaming buddies.

Blizz did say that all future games would be MMORPGS and so we are likely seeing the last table scraps of pre-MMORPG thinking at this company with SC2. 

Considering things like D2, or SC1 are still selling boxes quite happily, there may be a difference of opinion between Blizz and their ant overlords...

I got to 70 in BC and saw no reason to play until levels 71-80 are available, if I can catch up to the raiders that easily.

But why are D2 and SC1 still selling boxes?  I'd argue largely because each game has social components.  How many SC1 boxes are selling because of the single player game, versus the multiplayer game: I have no numbers, but my guess is the vast majority of boxes are sold because Korea is krazy for SC1 multiplayer.

My wild unfounded theory about DK's is that the Lich King is corrupting willing Alliance and Horde characters to become Scourge, more or less.

When you think about it - in aggregate - arena pvp gear is easily on par with T5 gear even though some attributes do not directly compare.  For all intents and purposes - not sure about you guys - but as I knew no one who made it into Naxx at 60, I don't expect anyone I know to make it into black temple at 70.  That is likely true for most players making raiding a waste of time compared to arena rewards.

I still don't get how gear you raid for/quest for/whatever is a waste of time if invalidated by the next expansion.  Are you trying to get your final set of armor and weapon and then just login to look at yourself ever day?

If you're not having fun obtaining it, then you need help.

Yeah I don't get this mentality either. It's like people I knew that left our alliance when we were raiding MC to go get BWL gear with a group that had it on farm. Then, they got all their gear, and I never saw them again. Raiding isn't about the gear, because once you actually have it, the game becomes really really stupid. You have literally nothing to do at that point. The only reason I raid is because I like the new challenges, I like hanging out with ~20 of the 25 people I raid with, and I enjoy having a schedule so that I know I'm going to be doing something fun immediately when I log on. The gear is just really a side-effect of success, and nothing more than a stepping stone to the next wave of raiding content. That's why I don't give a shit if it's replaced in the expansion or not. I wasn't using it to become awesome forever, I was using it to beat the next guy in the line.

But why are D2 and SC1 still selling boxes?  I'd argue largely because each game has social components.  How many SC1 boxes are selling because of the single player game, versus the multiplayer game: I have no numbers, but my guess is the vast majority of boxes are sold because Korea is krazy for SC1 multiplayer.

I still don't get how gear you raid for/quest for/whatever is a waste of time if invalidated by the next expansion.  Are you trying to get your final set of armor and weapon and then just login to look at yourself ever day?

If you're not having fun obtaining it, then you need help.

My past diku gaming experience says if you haven't managed those achievements in one expansion, you will not be able to tackle the high-end challenges in the next expansion. It was all one big journey along a path of perceived progress. Therefore in past games, the reward for sticking with one game was significantly greater. But in WoW, it seems there is no need to prepare for the next expansion. All the old raid dungeons became pointless on the launch of BC. There was no need to have made any progress between dinging 60 and entering the gate to Outland.

I found that bizarre. I enjoyed playing BC, but in the knowledge that skipping the WoW raid/PvP game won't change anything, a variety of fun is the spice of life. My character will apparently be equal to yours with no effort on my part, so any progress you make in the meantime will be meaningless. It would be wonderfully ironic if we discover that is not the case on the launch of WotLK and you all laugh at me for not having played through BC.

He just wants to achieve Final Uberness, beat the game, and quit, but those bastards at Blizzard just keep adding more crap.  It's like they don't want him to quit or something.

I found that bizarre. I enjoyed playing BC to 70, but in the knowledge that skipping the WoW raid/PvP game won't change anything, a variety of fun is the spice of life. My character will apparently be equal to yours with no effort on my part, so any progress you make in the meantime will be meaningless. It would be wonderfully ironic if we discover that is not the case on the launch of WotLK and you all laugh at me for not having played through BC.

Yep, their decisions so far have cost untold millions of subscribers.  It's only up to 9 million now instead of the ONE THOUSAND MILLION it could have been.

I think you people are mildly insane. They said the content spread of the new expansion would be similar to BC and it was 80% solo and small group content or more. How in the world is that catering to raiders?

You are saying the effort is meaningless like people only raid to become powerful forever. They don't, we just explained that.

They raid because they want to be the best they can be during the current time period. Then, they shed those trappings at the expansion reset and sort of start over, except now they are a coordinated unit with gear advantages in the early leveling pool, and they know how to work together in raids for the next set of instances.

Besides, Why the hell would you want to play a game where a set of gear you got in the last expansion would never be upgraded in the next one by the first raid?

The missing link in your question is my point above - a first raid in the new expansion would only be feasible for people who have already geared up in the old raid content (if you don't have good enough gear, you can't win), so yes there are upgrades on the first raid.

The gap between a non-raider's gear and a raider's gear was very large at the end of original WoW. There was plenty of room to keep new non-raid gear weaker than old world raid gear, but stronger than old world non-raid gear, while offering upgrades to raiders from new raid zones.

Instead, they obliterated most of the existing raiders' achievements by making giant upgrades easily available from levelling quests, allowing new raiders to step right into the new raiding content, starting a whole new progression line and abandoning past raid content.

Then of course, there's also the "new shiny" factor.  Much like the hopes for AoC, despite it being run by what used to be seen as the largest bunch of inept twits ever to launch an MMO.

I subbed to WoW for three months, had fun, and quit when I was done.  I beat the game.  The catass who grinds his soul to dust so he can be the ultimate in uberness for a little while until the expansion is beaten by the game.

Yeah ...
... one.

Because that 80% isn't the Good Shit.

The best rewards, best boss encounters, and majority of the development dollars are strictly reserved for the Catassing Few.

Death Knight will needs a quest to unlock, about the same as the warlock mount quest, and will start at level 60 or 70, its for end game content only. A bunch of classes got existing talent tweaks (Enh shammy get aggro drop).

The stuff you can't get will always be the Good Shit.  This follows from a saying about grass being greener somewhere.

Defeating the gods of the Warcraft universe is the Good Shit compared to pushing back the Scarlet Crusade. This is true now and it would be true even if they made the Scarlet Crusade quest chain require a 40-man raid.

I hereby agree to disagree. I want the worth of WoW raiders' successes to carry over into an expansion more like they did in EverQuest, and you don't.

Wouldn't that make Shadow Labs/Arcatraz and possibly Shattered Halls "The Good Shit" since you're killing gods or decently important lore characters?

I mean fuck, Murmur is the reason that half of Terrokar Forest is a bomb crater.

Majority of the development dollars?  So you're saying that it costs more money and development dollars to come up with a harder boss?  I think you don't understand game design very well. The developers don't have to beat the boss themselves to convince it to sit still for players. They just script it like any other boss.

On your other point, I think you just entered circular-argument-land.  The stuff you can't get will always be the Good Shit.  This follows from a saying about grass being greener somewhere.  Personally, I don't consider something you have to spend 10 hours a day, 7 days a week to get to, which is no more purple than my Kara and heroic purples, to be the Good Shit.

Making each new expansion give something back to the Raiders of the previous expansion does not get more people to Raid. This is WoW"s problem, one EQ never had. So many people are at the endgame and so many people want something to do when they get there, Blizzard can't require these people go through ever-lengthening Raid progressions. It has to be start-from-scratch new for each group that hits the new level cap because only a percentage of them were Raiding before the cap went up. Everyone else quested/grinded to the new cap and quit after some rounds of faction-grinding and PvP. These people need some new reason to come back to WoW, and telling them they'd need to farm MC/BWL/Naxx for T1/2/3 (iirc) gear just to get to that brand new raid zone launched with the new expansion they came back to check out isn't it.

Yes, yes, yes. And there are tons of beginning to middle tier raiders who are absolutely fine with that status. Raiding for the masses is what Blizz has carved out for themselves, for better or worse. I know the top tier guys are going to scream bloody fucking murder over another gear rest but it works: have the middling raiders ooo and ahh over Illidan, let the big boys have a year in the sun to flaunt their dope lootz and then reset the whole thing so everyone's at the same level for three months.

Also, they mentioned that plans are to have Naxx retuned as an MC difficulty raid zone for Wrath. Good move on their part. Everyone I know who's been considers Naxx Blizzard's masterpiece and everyone I know who hasn't been still wants to go.

Apparently you have no idea how much time, effort, and testing is required to get 25-man stuff designed, tuned, and itemized, compared to solo/5-man content.

I guarantee you the outdoor zone designing/itemization of Northrend is already done, or nearly so.  The raid zones?  They started working on designing the layouts and art/models for those before the concept art was even in for the outdoor shit, and I bet, just like BC, they'll still be working on more content that less than 10% of their customers will ever see 6 months after the expansion ships.

I don't *think* that grass is greener; seeing that it IS greener is as easy as looking at the stat totals, or videos of those guilds killing the NPC on the game box (an encounter that I, and 90% of their customers, will never get to see personally). Those items are better than the shit I have access to as a 'casual' player, and I'll never get to see the actual conclusion to the story that I pay the same $/month to experience as the trash that raids 60 hours/week while on welfare.

He probably knows what you are saying but he doesn't care.   There are a lot of hardcore gamers who will make arguments against what you are saying because they will gladly accept a game catered to their tastes where 90% of the customers must deal with cockblocks.   Sadly right now the mentality in Blizzard is to remove most of the cockblocks to appease casual gamers and leave in the really important cockblocks to let hardcore gamers have their cake at least.  This is definitely not the smartest way of doing things for Blizzard but with Tigole running the show sound reason is probably not prevailing in their meetings.

It works for the most part because nobody has any alternatives and anyone who tries will probably deliver a half-assed product.  Basically you are SOL for several years till the market has less growth and people have to start fighting for customers.

Wait... I'm confused.  I think you are obliquely calling me hardcore (which is laughable) but also said that it's sad that they are appeasing casual gamers?  Whose side are you on, anyway?

Sadly right now the mentality in Blizzard is to remove most of the cockblocks to appease casual gamers and leave in the really important cockblocks to let hardcore gamers have their cake at least.

Blizzard should be aiming the story in the expansions, if not the phatest loots, at the bulk of their playerbase.  Instead, Blizzard's apparent strategy is to throw casuals just enough bones to keep them paying & subsidizing the development of premium raid/story content for less than 10% of their customers.

Quick! Somebody phone Blizzard and tell them they should change the very fundaments of their game since it's not working out for them!

Quick! Somebody phone Blizzard and tell them they should change the very fundaments of their game since it's not working out for them!

fun·da·ment      /ˈfʌndəmənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fuhn-duh-muhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.   the buttocks.
2.   the anus.
3.   a base or basic principle; underlying part; foundation.

Blizzard should be aiming the story in the expansions, if not the phatest loots, at the bulk of their playerbase.  Instead, Blizzard's apparent strategy is to throw casuals just enough bones to keep them paying & subsidizing the development of premium raid/story content for less than 10% of their customers.

I like the first 2 definitions there.   :-D  I'd change the assy parts.

Sure, it doesn't matter to THEM.  They could have more subscriptions, but they're obviously not hurting for it.  They don't need to take any risks anymore and growth likely isn't the driving factor anymore. 

However, it sure as hell matters to some of us: the people they could be retaining and seem to be losing due a lack of a complete experience for the casual player.  They're missing out on becoming a great game. 

The second I saw the Black Temple trailer I knew this game was done for me on a certain level.  An interesting trailer delivering on the primary character for the expansion and closing out a major portion of the lore.. and it's not for me.  I may come back for some PVP changes if they turn out to be interesting or for the 70-80 portion of the next expansion, but there's always going to be that portion of the game that's specifically "not for me".  The part that's "not for me" is the part you play games for.  You don't buy Disgaea and hope that your game ends at Mid-Boss, do you? 

/end_pointless_rant

I hope that someone gets this right for me.  WoW isn't going to. 

It just boggles my mind that people expect the expansion is suddenly going to be different than everything before it.

This expansion is more of the same... I'm sure I'll purchase it just like I did TBC.

Quick! Somebody phone Blizzard and tell them they should change the very fundaments of their game since it's not working out for them!

BT if it weren't for the whole "You are not prepared!" thing would have had about as much of a story leading up to it as BWL/Hyjal, as in none.

It just boggles my mind that people expect the expansion is suddenly going to be different than everything before it.

Blizzard is most likely going to have more competition for gaming dollars with this next expansion; maybe they should try and do better than 'just more of the same'.

Like, I dunno, maybe stop wasting time and money designing *any* content that 90% of your playerbase won't ever even have the chance to use.

Stupid shit like: ... just proves how goddamn stupid some of the people in this community are; how many goddamned idiots said the same stupid shit about McQuaid & Co. regarding EQ?

"Golly Gee, they're making so much money, they must be doing it right!"

And what happened?  All the dumbshits that parroted that nonsense back then look pretty goddamned stupid, don't they? 

I'm just cutting out the future hindsight and getting right to the namecalling.

How about you lick my balls, ace.How many choices did you have when EQ was around as opposed to now? This time next year? That's the difference.

Fuck sake, if you don't like  A FUNDAMENTAL ASPECT OF THE GAME why in God's name are you subjecting yourself to the torture, the horror, the abject humiliation of continuing to play and have the subliterate leet retards wave purple penises in your face?

Edit: That was to the dizzy bitch three posts up, since my quote thing went bonkers.

Theres just no arguing with this amount of nerdrage, let me just say i think you are entirely wrong about absolutely everything and whatever game it is that did the things you want would have small fraction of the subs wow had a year ago.

Let me get this straight. I play three nights a week with some light raiding and I'm the asshole

So turning off the servers is the new mark of MMO failure?

How about needlessly surrendering tens, or maybe even hundreds of millions of dollars/year to your competition?  That sounds like failure to me.

WoW's subscriber base, even at 50%, would still be... 5 times greater than EQ at its peak?  But if that's where WoW is next year, then yeah, that's some massive fucking failure on their part.

Personally, I don't think WAR or AoC has that sort of potential; but Blizz *is* going to lose $$$ to them that they didn't have to.

And btw,  I'm talking about the mismanagement at the top; I'm not saying Blizzard is in the habit of hiring retards for every position in the company (far from it).  But they have a couple of lemons in their front office atm.

Blizzard is most likely going to have more competition for gaming dollars with this next expansion; maybe they should try and do better than 'just more of the same'.

Like, I dunno, maybe stop wasting time and money designing *any* content that 90% of your playerbase won't ever even have the chance to use.

The art assets for all the Northrend zones may be done or nearly so, but I'm be surprised if they actually had any serious amount of content in them yet. Especially an amount ready for serious testing. Just look at TBC. When beta started, half of the zones weren't even in yet because they were finished the itemization and other content. Blades Edge arguably wasn't even for release.

I expect with Northrend will be paced a lot better since they were pretty eager to finally get their first expansion out after 2 years, but if all of Northrend's exterior zones are ready for beta test when we get into it, I'd be surprised. Blizzard typically seems to try to really linearly push through content from start to finish rather than slowly bring everything (even most things) up at the same time.

I have a sneaking suspicion that they're tying up loose ends from the RTS series with the expansions before launching Warcraft 4 and a new storyline, possibly tied with a WoW2. Not for several years but we've killed Illidan, Kil'jaeden is coming, Arthas will be killed... Emerald Dream is lurking as are the South Seas. Three more expansions, maybe?

The game will go into a steady slow decline just for reason of being old and outdated as time goes by. 

I have a sneaking suspicion that they're tying up loose ends from the RTS series with the expansions before launching Warcraft 4 and a new storyline, possibly tied with a WoW2. Not for several years but we've killed Illidan, Kil'jaeden is coming, Arthas will be killed... Emerald Dream is lurking as are the South Seas. Three more expansions, maybe?

- THE TITANS.  The last wrap up for anyone who completed the full storyline attached to Uldaman leads you to a statue outside of the Titan Vault complex in Tanaris, where you find out that the Titans Themselves may be headed back to Azeroth for a "re-evaluation" of their little science project, cause it seems something has been fucking with their sandbox and they aren't happy about it at all.

Edit: Anyone else find it interesting that the Azeroth humans have no origin myth whatsoever?

Yeah - from all intents and purposes, the mythos seems to indicate that they just kind of showed up, were barbaric tribes, and then all banded together for protection against Trolls under the banner of Arathor (and the great city of Strom, which became Stromgarde).

The gnomes just seem to have show up too, unless there's something I don't know.

I for one would be just as happy if they hadn't.

This thread got Sub-Geeky.

The gnomes just seem to have show up too, unless there's something I don't know.

I for one would be just as happy if they hadn't.

Hey don't be playing the "I'm in this thread, but I'm not a geek" card.  Come on.  Seriously.

This thread actually started to interst you and you know it.  You just got a bit scared, now didn't you? Eh?  Eh?



I know I am.

I just assume everything comes from Trolls unless otherwise indicated.

Trolls were the first race on the planet, then came the Aqir, which was the race that C'Thun created, which split off into two races - the Qiraji and the Nerubians.

The two major Troll empires, the Gurubashi and Amani, managed to come together and beat the shit out of the Aqir into the north and south regions, until internal squabbling made the Trolls split into different tribes.

Trolls who found the Wells of Eternity turned into Night Elves.

Feels about right.  4-5 years from now the game will look dusty and lose appeal from age and graphics alone.  I could see them launch Warcraft 4 to build up more Lore to base a future WoWx to, but launch a new MMO in the meantime.  Let WoW die off slowly while the buzz around the storyline of Warcraft4 builds up.  3-4 years after than launch WoW2 just as the new MMO (Diablo online or Starcraft online, etc.) is starting to wane.  They could easily continue to creat the ebb and flow of popularity along with using their tech. compass for predicting pushing new graphics, etc.  

...(I know I still like my old EQ1 guildies better than anyone I've met in WoW, and I haven't played EQ1 properly since just after WoW was released)...

Do you really think so? Because, you know, EQ1 is still plugging away with a pretty decent couple-of-hundred-thousand subs from all reports.

Hmm. I wonder what the market for MMOGs is like in South America? There's already a Spanish version of WoW, after all.

Blizzard is most likely going to have more competition for gaming dollars with this next expansion; maybe they should try and do better than 'just more of the same'.

They are planning a whole zone like you just described for WotLK. Its going to be a capturable city, and as people fight to retake it, they will use siege weapons to knock buildings and walls down. Once the heavy fighting is over the winning side will need to rebuild the city and its defences. who knows how well it will work, but thats their plan.

They are planning a whole zone like you just described for WotLK. Its going to be a capturable city, and as people fight to retake it, they will use siege weapons to knock buildings and walls down. Once the heavy fighting is over the winning side will need to rebuild the city and its defences. who knows how well it will work, but thats their plan.

Ah, that has some elements that I'd certainly like to see.  I need to read that information better.  I thought they were only talking about a new BG, which would be instanced and not persistent enough for what I was thinking about.

Good to know.  Thanks.

Prediction: The city will be permanently owned by Alliance on PvE servers, and Horde on PvP servers.

Prediction: The city will be permanently owned by Alliance on PvE servers, and Horde on PvP servers.

Wow my battlegroup is losing AV 45 to 360. No imbalance here.

Horde wins AV whenever they play a little bit of defense. 

I rerolled Horde after the expansion.  I have not found that to be the case.  I think Horde are on average more mature, though there are of course plenty of exceptions.

I think the reason the prediction will be true is that Horde are still more PvP focused as a side, so that gives them a slight edge on PvP servers where the population tends to be equal.  On PvE servers, the population has been shown to have twice the population on Alliance side on average, so the conclusion is foregone there.

I can't remember the last time I've seen anybody play defense in AV.  In my Battlegroup, they ridicule people that try to defend in both the raid and on the WoW forums, because it will prolong the fight, and they'd rather lose right away and start over again than to fight and win an epic battle that lasts for hours.  AV is such a shadow of what it used to be, it's kinda sad and pretty lame.

The Alliance mostly sucks at battlegrounds because they never bother to get coordinated.

On a lot of older PvE servers, this seems to be a holdover from the "World PvP" era, where it didn't matter what each individual did in TM/XR as the Alliance had enough numbers to just zerg the Horde under. So what happened was that Horde players had to organize to survive in PvP, while Alliance looked like they just ran around in circles hammering on random buttons. ;)

Combine that with the original (single server) BG queues which led to Horde players getting twice as many games as Alliance (and therefore more practical experience) and the fractionally better PvP racials for most Horde races, and all the little edges add up.

Except in AV, which has a crappy map anyway.  :-P

Amazing.  Your battlegroup clearly sucks.  Here's mine (Vengeance).

                                      Horde                                         Alliance
Alterac Valley                   139                                             108
Arathi Basin                       27                                               34
Warsong Gulch                  14                                               21
Eye of the Storm               73                                               64

Horde wins AV whenever they play a little bit of defense. 

Um, it's moreso that most of the Alliance players I know raid, so when we're doing pvp it's supposed to be a non-catassing experience. I personally just don't like going through the time and effort of throwing together groups, coming up with strategy, and leading. I do enough of that on PvE content, so when I'm pvping, I just do it to waste time. Those that take it seriously and want all the rewards are very coordinated in the Alliance, but we have more of people like myself who just do it as a side-show.

Funny thing is, on my server [Crushridge, PvP] WSGs and ABs were 50-50 before cross-realm battlegrounds.


-- Z.