Guitar thread

[Ingmar]

List badly needs Skunk Baxter too.

[Sky]

I love watching people get upset by those lists. They're awful.

At best, it's about what Ingmar mentions: spotlighting some guys who didn't get the spotlight. Tom Verlaine, Eddie Fucking "Play it like yo mama just died" Hazel; having spotify links for the artists to turn on folks to new stuff. James Burton but no Albert Lee? Also, a lot of cult of personality going on there (but ironically, no Vernon Reid).

And as someone who plays classical, just a general lol. At the very least you have to split it out by genre or you're going to get bizarre shit like 'minimalist' players outranking technical geniuses like Yngwie (was he on the list?).

No Zakk? BERSERKER RAGE

[HaemishM]

No Zakk, no Yngwie, no Satriani, no Vai, no Hammett, and guys like John Lennon (who was known as a bass player and songwriter more than he ever was as a guitarist) high on the list. Total fucking idiot list. They might as well have called it "Guitarists we think are awesome that you should totally listen to."

[Nebu]

How about "Guys that hold a guitar and sell lots of records"

Keith Richards? Please.

[Ingmar]

I'm not sure that's the whole story, given the voters are... a bunch of guitarists.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, but guitarists are weird. 

[Sky]

Lol pop guitarists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx7vOb7GNBg

[Raph]

Holy shit, I'm 4 guitarists into it and my head just exploded. Lifeson is 98 below STEVE FUCKING JONES from the Sex Pistols? REALLY?

EDIT: PAUL SIMON? What the fuck is wrong with these people?

Once upon a time, he was actually a pretty phenomenal fingerstyle player, back when the style barely existed. You can go back to tracks like "Anji" to see that. Times have moved on some.

Also, I don't know if you have ever noticed this, but even in his later stuff, it's all arranged on guitar. The horn shouts, the piano parts, the bass line, everything. He always backgrounds the acoustic in recording and concerts these days, and just strums, but if you try to do all the parts at once on a guitar, you'll find that in fact it's all from one guitar part.

Haven't read the whole list, but he's made this list before... not surprised to see him on there.

[Raph]

Bah, Fahey but not Michael Hedges... that guy redefined acoustic guitar for just about everyone since.

[HaemishM]

My point about Paul Simon is that he's not known as a guitarist anymore than Lennon is known as a guitarist. In fact, they are known as songwriters. Just because they happen to write it on a guitar doesn't make them a great guitarist, in my mind. The list was about great guitarists and those two just don't make the list to me.

[Sky]

So we're going to see Stephen Wrembel at the Egg next week. Just got in the promo email for it and turns out he's doing a free guitar workshop that afternoon...SO TEMPTING to try and get the time off and go sit in. Unfortunately, it's two hours away and I'm listening to our scheduler try to call in subs for THIS week, so I don't think my fiancee can get the day off to go.

For reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9YNKRwI5aU

You guys should keep and eye open for Stephen, he's getting a bit more notoriety now that he's done the soundtrack for that Woody Allen flick (Midnight in Paris), we saw him here in my nowhere town at the college just after he had cut the tracks (front row ftw). Kruno Spisic is another good one in that vein, but watch your lady friend, his voice tends to make them swoon a lilbit. Reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tji0YEc15yY

I would put Paul Simon on a great guitarist list, but there are a lot of guys not on that list that would be on there before him on mine. The two guys I just mentioned. Hell, was Brian Setzer on the list? He played a gypsy jazz set in the last show I caught.

[Raph]

http://www.raphkoster.com/music/IdEst.mp3

On page 155 of Theory of Fun for Game Design there is some sheet music. This is that song, played on solo acoustic guitar.

The song is played in DADGAE tuning, one of my favorite “weird” tunings — basically DADGAD with an added 2nd. As usual, I miked up like crazy: two condenser mics aimed at the guitar (one at the soundhole, the other at the 12th fret) plus a bigger diaphragm mic sitting a couple of feet away. I also used a pickup on this one, a Dean Markley Promag Grand.

I have the sound space set up a little weird… the ambient mic is “in the back,” by applying a fair amount of reverb to it. It’s panned around 36% to the right. The fretboard mic and the pickup and panned hard left and right, with much lighter reverb. And the soundhole mic is dead center, with a dry signal.

This has been knocking around the house since 2003, but I just got around to recording it right before the holidays. Enjoy!

[Salamok]

So even though I have not touched one in 20 years I have been pining for a guitar for a few years (midlife crisis?), anyway I finally gave in and snapped up a copy of Rocksmith and an intro level washburn on clearance for $180.  I was thinking I will be wanting an amp in the very near future but since I already spent more than I should have It needs to be cheap (preferably a modelling amp).

Currently wondering if this is a total waste of money (ie crap) or maybe a deal I should hop on while it is there:
Behringer V-TONE GMA106 on clearance for $30.

Or should I wait a month spend a bit more and get something like this:
Line 6 Spider IV 15 - Combo Guitar Amplifier (15 Watts) for $80.

Or go out of my comfort zone $$ wise and spend twice that and go for a full featured modelling amp:
Vox Valvetronix+ VT20+ for $169.

My guess is headphones most of the time and occasionally play over the speaker, but either way I can't have it too loud.

[Nebu]

My 2 cents:

1) An acoustic guitar will help you develop better technique.  An electric will be more fun to play.  I also suggest that people start with an acoustic unless they are younger.  It doesn't require an amp, the strings are harder to break, and it's completely portable.  I keep a guitar and a bass in my office at work for when I need to clear my head.  Think about which you'd enjoy playing more and plan to spend about $300 on a decent quality, entry level instrument. If you can't afford that, consider used.  I've bought a number of used guitars on eBay for half of their new price.  Many arrived with professional setups. I did get stung once... but that's bound to happen with eBay.   

2) If you do want to buy an amp, I'd suggest an inexpensive modelling amp.  I bought the Vox that's a couple of steps above the one that you linked and I absolutely love it.  It has an endless variety of tones and allows me the flexibility to try things.  As you improve, the amp will definitely grow with you.  It's well worth the extra $100 if you play for more than a year.  

3) Use youtube when you hit the wall.  You can find tutorials for about any common song that you want to learn and it brings a great sense of accomplishment to play through a complete song.  After a long day at work, I still love to go home and crank out "you shook me all night long".  It's a great stress release.  It's also a fun way to learn new chords and find new chord shapes in different neck positions.  

[stray]

I've owned Beheringer, Vox, and Line 6 amps. I'd definitely go with the Line 6. They're popular for a reason. Vox is OK, but they're better off making tube amps. Beheringer is cheap shit. It's ok if that's all you can afford, but I don't know.. something about their models and software doesn't sound very realistic. At least, last I checked, it just sounded very thin and tinny.

[Sky]

the strings are harder to break

  I'm going to have to start building custom sets of nylon strings like I do with my electric. The high E on a nylon set is absolutely way too thin for me. I use a thicker than stock set of 11 nickels for electric, excepting the low E because it's a bit too big and smacks the pickups which are set pretty high on my SG.

As far as acoustic guitars go, these were recorded on a $70 el-cheapo classical (a display model, no less). I'm a fan of not spending a lot of money up front, then make the shortcomings of that gear a challenge to practice until I'm worthy of decent gear. Of course, that's said with a couple decades of experience behind me, so I don't get discouraged by the bad equipment, ymmv.

Instead of a tiny amp, you might think about getting something like the line 6 pod and putting some decent headphones into it. If you decide to get more into it, you have a decent bridge into the amplified world using the pod as your effects loop.

I had a little gorilla that bit the dust last year, it was nice for a fix (with my Boss GT6), but it pretty much sucked. I'd either surf hock shops for a decent tube amp or stick with the pod. You'll probably want some effects once you get an amp anyway, unless you're buying a pro rig and can play it at volume.

[Raph]

My daughter, after years of ignoring the little student classical 3/4-sized guitar she begged for when she was seven, suddenly decided last night that she wanted to learn. So I started he out with five songs that are only D, G, and A ... the simplest (Clementine, Iko Iko) just D and A. They are mostly songs she knows, a few she loves, which I suspect will help a lot. I got her started with he own fake book in a binder and a chord chart. We'll see what comes of it, but she was willing to sit for two hours last night and practice.

Her "stretch" song has an Em in it... soon as she masters switching chords in time, I can try her on more stuff in Em.

[Selby]

I'm a fan of not spending a lot of money up front, then make the shortcomings of that gear a challenge to practice until I'm worthy of decent gear. Of course, that's said with a couple decades of experience behind me, so I don't get discouraged by the bad equipment, ymmv.

Seriously I can relate to this.  My first and favorite guitar was a cheap piece of crap that I learned how to tune myself and work with its shortcomings.  I didn't even have an amp for the better part of 4-5 years on my electric, I was just learning to make it work and play without it.  I actually scared myself when I got a nice amp with a nice set of adjustments after 11 years, made it sound like someone decent was playing rather than me.

[Sky]

The biggest shock going from a $50 Cort reject to the SG was that it STAYED IN FUCKING TUNE.

I mean WOW. Game-changer.

Back to a cheap guitar, it's never in tune for long and the intonation is garbage. Really looking forward to getting a nice classical...the one Joe Walsh played at the Grammy's would serve nicely!

[Salamok]

Instead of a tiny amp, you might think about getting something like the line 6 pod and putting some decent headphones into it. If you decide to get more into it, you have a decent bridge into the amplified world using the pod as your effects loop.

Thank you, awesome advice!  I am pretty sure I will go with a line 6 pocket pod.

[Salamok]

So new guitar got here and the 3rd fret is slightly loose at the edge under the 6th string (can see about a hairs width of vertical movement between pressed and unpressed) it also feels jagged when running my hands down the edge of the neck.  At first the guy on the phone said it was just dry and a little humidity would tighten it up, I didn't sound very convinced so they are supposed to call me tomorrow with an RMA.

[Sky]

Loose fret bad, not worth fixing on a cheap guitar. RMA would be good imo.

Cheap fretwire hanging over the side, yeah, cheap guitars have that pretty often.

[Salamok]

On closer inspection it was hanging over because the fret slide a little, I slid it back and it seems to be staying in place. I suppose it would tighten up if the wood absorbed some moisture.  I will probably still RMA it.

[Sky]

Frets are supposed to be glued in, you should not have to rely on humidity to hold it in place. Otherwise, there would be no guitarists in Arizona! Definitely RMA. I bet that's why it's on clearance.

I would have a hard time buying a guitar online. Go to a local music shop so you can actually put your hands on the instrument. Even with good guitars, there is a ton of variance in construction.

[Nebu]

I would have a hard time buying a guitar online. Go to a local music shop so you can actually put your hands on the instrument. Even with good guitars, there is a ton of variance in construction.

Even that is tricky business.  A cheap guitar with a good setup will feel better than a good guitar with a lousy setup.  I always tell new players (or returning players) to buy an instrument that they are excited to play.  After a few hundred hours on it, they'll know what they want/like.  Good call on the pod.  All this new tech is really cool. 

On a side note: I buy quite a few guitars online, but mostly because I know what I want/like and have experience working in a guitar store.  I also buy low.  If a guitar shows up and I don't enjoy it, I put on a new nut, a new set of strings, set the action low, and resell the thing for a couple hundred bucks more than I bought it for.  I should probably have said bass guitars, because 6 stringed instruments still mystify me. 

[Sky]

How do you sell? I've tried listing my old Alvarez on craigslist but even at a bargain price I got no interest.

Not to mention it probably needs some work, since I really have never gotten into doing setups and need to learn how to do so (maybe before I die would be nice). I think it's just a structural thing, in certain levels of humidity it's worse: where the neck meets the body the fretboard moves up slightly enough to make for some major buzzing. I guess I could raise the action or maybe look at restting the neck, but for a guitar I paid $400 and wouldn't get much out of, not sure I want to bother.

Maybe I should look at it as a project guitar to learn on...

[Salamok]

I would have a hard time buying a guitar online. Go to a local music shop so you can actually put your hands on the instrument. Even with good guitars, there is a ton of variance in construction.

I totally agree and if I at all knew wtf I was looking for I would do as you say.  Also, if I didn't live in Austin (aka the land of over priced used instruments) I would buy used.

This is basically my $180 learning guitar if I play it for 2 years and it holds together I'll consider it a job well done then hopefully proceed on to guitar #2 which I will buy in person.  Other than the fret issue I like it very much (so far) and even with the fret issue which hasn't moved since I slid it back into place) I would have paid $180 for this if I saw it in a shop.  

I tuned it once yesterday, dorked around with it + the pod (awesome) for an hour or so, then rocksmith arrived in the mail (even more awesome) and I screwed around with that for another few hours and the guitar stayed in tune the entire time.  My only complaints really (other than the fret) are the fact that it is a set neck so if the neck goes bad replacement isn't really an option and there wasn't a manual or documentation covering the switch positions/knobs, probably pretty standard stuff but how's a noob to know.

[Nebu]

How do you sell? I've tried listing my old Alvarez on craigslist but even at a bargain price I got no interest.

eBay. Find a similar guitar and price yours slightly below it with a solid "Buy it Now" price.  


I find cheap guitars to be discouraging.  They don't hold tune well and often have uneven necks due to cheap truss rod design.  Pawn shops were my best friend when I started playing guitar more.  You can play them on site and haggle when you find one you like.  Plus most pawn shops have a ton of them that they're dying to get rid of.

[Sky]

It's been tough for me the last few years being broke with the truck payments. There was a really nice flamenco guitar at my local music shop for a couple hundred bones last year. Would've taken some work to get back up and running, but it played really nice. So I've been avoiding music stores :)

On ebay: how do you handle boxing/shipping (mine doesn't have a case)? There's one on Amazon for $530, I guess I could try to sell through there. On the bay there's one with a case for $375 BiN with no bids....I am a bad capitalist, because it's a pita.

[Nebu]

On ebay: how do you handle boxing/shipping (mine doesn't have a case)? There's one on Amazon for $530, I guess I could try to sell through there. On the bay there's one with a case for $375 BiN with no bids....I am a bad capitalist, because it's a pita.

One of the graduate students working for me has a small eBay business.  He does everything for me and I give him a cut.

In other words, I'm an idiot when it comes to eBay.

[Sky]

Had to stop by the bank at lunch...that  guitar is still there. There's an Alhambra label in it, but the excessive gluing inside and rough fretboard have me concerned. The tag says $300, so I must've talk the owner down on it once already, and it's been sitting there a year since then.

Even at $200, I hesitate to spend that kind of money on a guitar in such rough shape. I'd probably have to at least sand the fretboard and refinish it (with no idea of how!). And the fret wire is too long and would need to be filed down. I'd also have to put in some cheater dots on the side of the fretboard, because it's hardcore no markings at all. Not a problem in the middle of a piece, but I like my crutches.

But it does play nice.

They also had one with a bizarre body shape, kind of a pear cut-away lutey kinda thing. But the fret wire was /really/ messy on that one. Wish I had grabbed the name off it, or at least got the price.

[Raph]

Was given a pair of comped tickets by a friend to go see the Guitar Masters tour here last night. Andy McKee, Antoine Dufour, and Stephen Bennett. It was fantastic, and reminded me that I am within reach of playing a lot of the "modern guitar" sort of stuff if I just set my mind to it. I ended up buying 10(!) CDs, so it worked out as much as the tickets in the first place, but it was just fantastic. We were in fifth row or so, and got to go backstage and meet them after the show...

[Miguel]

I just finished up a new microphone build - basically a Neumann U87 copy in design, but only about $180 in parts (replacement capsule, transformer, new FET with a proper bias adjustment, etc):



I did a test recording of a cheap acoustic guitar with it:

U87 - Guitar Test Recording

This guitar was from Costco for about $100.  You don't need an expensive guitar to either sound good or get good recordings.  This is the main guitar part for a song I'm writing for my 3 year old daughter, and the sound is very usable in a mix.

One thing the more expensive guitars do give:  better playability and better construction.  This guitar is constantly needing to be retuned, and the tuners aren't exactly smooth.  But the sound is fine.

[Mrbloodworth]

Flattus Maximus custom Schecter electric guitar ( Ebay )

Proceeds go to his family.

[Sky]

So I was at a meeting at our system building a month ago, talking about that guitar in my last post to a colleague who is a folky. She mentioned she had a hand-made spanish classical with case, looking for $250. I thought it was a bit too good to be true, but she's a super-honest person so I told her I wanted to check it out. Out of the blue yesterday she dropped it off for me to play while I was in a meeting. I couldn't stop pulling it out to play, then played for three hours last night. It's still a fairly low-end instrument, but at least it's not rock-bottom like the one I've been playing.

Reviews say pony up for the next model, which has rosewood back/sides; but I actually like the tone of mahogany thanks to the Baby Taylor. With the cedar top it's got a really nice punchy warm tone without a lot of top end (I guess I'll always favor my old bass sound!). Even so, it's a much deeper yet crisper sound than the el-cheapo. Might look into replacing the tuners and nut at some point, but it plays really well. Definitely the guitar to get me through until I can afford a 'real' classical or flamenco model. Even the case is nice, a kind of solid/gig bag hybrid with an inch of rigid foam.

Very odd to play something with no fret markers. I don't need fretboard markers, but I've always had the cheaters on the side. Going totally marker-less was really rough when playing from memory because I tend to watch myself play and kept getting lost. Playing from the sheet music was much better, since I tend to ignore the fretboard while I do that. Bizarre.



I just noticed Miguel said he BUILT that mic. Sheesh! Nice job, man.