War

[lac]

Don't be so lucid. It's depressing.

Anyway, if CVA presses a renter in Provi, does -A- react? Or do you face the proverbial Providence blob?

[rand]

Resetting people and going back to farming belts is not an especially bold strategy.  For real changes to come all the mega coalitions need to die, among other things.  Since big resets did not happen no noticeable shifts will emerge.  Let me know when AAA attacks IT or Atlas or someone who might threaten their space.    

for 'real changes' to come eve would have to be reset back to 0 with no sov, no isk and everyone having to start from scratch. the proliferation of isk, caps and supercaps has made mega coalitions inevitable.

the only option other than that would be to nerf caps and supercaps into the ground because smaller groups stand next to no chance otherwise.

[Stabs]

The crucial thing seems to be the tenacity of some of the alliances. Bob lost all its space, came back. Goons too, and they're on their way back.

It seems that once you're seen as a major space-holding alliance you attract a critical mass of people that ensures you're capable of becoming a space holder again if you're utterly defeated.

[rand]

The crucial thing seems to be the tenacity of some of the alliances. Bob lost all its space, came back. Goons too, and they're on their way back.

It seems that once you're seen as a major space-holding alliance you attract a critical mass of people that ensures you're capable of becoming a space holder again if you're utterly defeated.

not really. even if goons make a comeback it'll be as NC pets they really don't have the numbers to defend themselves without NC backing.

[ajax34i]

Defend themselves against what / who?

[rand]

anyone attacking their shit like CH/Evoke did in cloud ring?

[Endie]

not really. even if goons make a comeback it'll be as NC pets they really don't have the numbers to defend themselves without NC backing.

What you're describing (innacurately, given the actual nature of the relationship) is the bit before we make a comeback. The whole point of "making a comeback" will be that we'll be able to play a fully independent role.  Or as independent a role as anyone can in Eve right now.

Also I pled your case in Illum to get access back RP, it's nbd.  But then, along with Vile rat, I also pled the case for the defence for TRez so you may want to view the whole thing in the light of that.

[Phildo]

Oh, you're that Rand.  Cool.

[rand]

not really. even if goons make a comeback it'll be as NC pets they really don't have the numbers to defend themselves without NC backing.

What you're describing (innacurately, given the actual nature of the relationship) is the bit before we make a comeback. The whole point of "making a comeback" will be that we'll be able to play a fully independent role.  Or as independent a role as anyone can in Eve right now.

Also I pled your case in Illum to get access back RP, it's nbd.  But then, along with Vile rat, I also pled the case for the defence for TRez so you may want to view the whole thing in the light of that.

thanks, but i was just using goons as an example of how smaller groups (which is what waffe is) can't make any headway in eve due to supercap, cap and isk proliferation. CH/evoke fucked goons in cloud ring with supercap use for example.

[Endie]

thanks, but i was just using goons as an example of how smaller groups (which is what waffe is) can't make any headway in eve due to supercap, cap and isk proliferation. CH/evoke fucked goons in cloud ring with supercap use for example.

Yeah we've learned our lesson over supercaps, and I think it's a well-recognised fact that we need them available in decent numbers to us, now.  As regards numbers, I suspect that we'll have a managed increase, although we booted out a worthless DJ addition already: Rus-Saga were a 60-man Russian corp who we knew virtually nothing about, and whom most of us were surprised to hear had actually been there for weeks.

[Fordel]

I'm sad that the Goons are a small group now, they were always most entertaining when their Rifters would block out the sun!

[Stabs]

Well that was my point. they're not really a small group they're a large latent pool of players who stopped playing because their leaders were a bit shit.

Looks from the outside like they're on their way back, they certainly have the potential to be a major force if morale becomes high again.

[Comstar]

I got on 2 Carrier kill mails, page and a half of others though I missed another carrier and failed to shoot the CSAA fast enough. 900+ ships destroyed in the last 24 hours in J2-PZ6 and the battles show a k/D ratio of 10 to 1.

CoW's fleet was destroyed in system by PL/NC/RA/Curse(?)/GSF and others. ATLAS's fleet hid in their POS outside the system and watched their pets be destroyed by an NC HAC gang who took no losses. AAA sent 50 ships but only arrived to kill Primary's fleet who then got out of there before they lost more ships to their so called allies. CoW lost about 65 billion isk today, which if my calculations are correct, is worth more than $3000 US.

[Sir T]

Just to clue people into what Comstar is talking about, COW had a POS with a CSAA coming out last night, and from the frantic efforts to get help to save it it was building a supercap of some kind. Anyway the Bigstars of the Notanapfestreally showed up.

Battle report

BR from NC view:

We formed up BroFistFormation Hacs and fleet peaked at 112. ( including 1 vigil )

After portaling to Geminate and reminding WIDOT how shitty they are for losing the region we preceeded to Scalding Pass while getting more and more intel about ~the enemy~ forming fleets to come defend that CSAA Tower.
After losing half of our Ceptor Backbone ( 1 ) to a Bomb ( Vigil survived ) we arrived at 1 Jump out of destination where already 110 Atlas sat inside of a JB Tower.
OFC Atlas doesnt fight 110 vs 110+vigil ( remember, 1 ceptor died ) because its not fair for NC ( we normally need to fight 3:1 ). Good move Atlas, good move.
So we wait on the J2 gate for Atlas to grow balls ( speak: get 135 pets and 65 -A- into system ). Fine with me. 110 Atlas still sitting inside JB Tower. 65 -A- 1 Jump out. 135 Atlas Pets on a Jumpbridge that leads into our system.
Cant find the logs but our conversation in a chat that helped coordination ( for KSC guys: this is something like a channel where you can plan stuff with your allies so you dont fail at working together ) looked like this:

DBRB ( goon dude with a flu atm ): Hey NC, we are sitting in j2- everything is allright
Spy dude: Hey NC, you have like 135 more dudes coming your way
Me ( middle name: chuck ): Don't worry I got this
Spy dude: Hey NC, those 135 are not the 110 Atlas dudes that are already in system
Me ( last name Guyver ): Let me open calc.exe 110+135 = 245.... I GOT THIS... anything else ?
Spy dude: I forgot to mention 65 -A- that got batphoned
Me : Sorry closed my calc.exe but isnt that like 300 dudes Against 110 NC ? ( 111 Including vigil )
DBRB: J2 looks awesome we are owning empty space
Spy dude: NC, you better get into J2 and lets fight them here

I started drinking, was already a bit hammered so I thought: Hey, we have 300 and they have 100 lets 0wn. ( I would never engage with less than 3:1 ratio )
Unfortunately our enemies ( around 300 within 1 jump ) still didnt have the balls to fight our mighty BFF fleet chillin on the gate.
So we said fuck it.

When the 135 Atlas Pets portaled in we warped to the JB, bubbled and started to engage.
Atlas came quickly out of the forcefield and -A- jumped into system and warped in at range.

So we had a situation where 110 NCs ( Vigil died on warp-in ) fought 300+ bad dudes on a bad dude's deathstar. Sounds fair, ain't it ?

Meanwhile in the Convo:
Dbrb: Hey Imperian we just killed a Rifter, look how awesome we are
Me: Mumblemumblemumble MUST...KILL...HOSTILES
Dbrb: Seriously, we killed another Kestrel, we are awesome
Me: Hey Boat why don't you come over and help us, we are like 1:3 outnumbered
Dbrb: Sorry afk dinner
Me: Sigh

Ok, calling targets ( lol not really because enemies went down before I was able to call them, somehow my fleet KNEW what I was gonna call )
We lost some Hacs under the Alpha of 300 hostiles on grid and a deathstar but w/e.

We raped 4-5 dudes for every ship we lost. I had no idea how many we had left and I really didnt wanna go back 20 jump to Tribute because I was tired. So we stayed on the field and fought LIKE LIONS ( Jogyn would be proud ).
After we killed like a hundred bad dudes we had to re-position because we were out of bad dudes in closer range. While we warped out our enemies already celebrated victory ( lol ) with "GF"s in local just to see us coming back on grid and start applying the fist again. This time slightly out of range of the posguns. What can I say, after re-warping I think we lost one more hac for killing 40-50 (?) more dudes ? Whatever it felt like grapegrapegrape. Atlas retreated. -A- retreated and we remained lonely on grid waiting for hostiles to warp back in ( they didnt )

Suddenly the convo lights up:
DBRB: Imperian, you really need to test this chinese turtle soup, delicious !!!
Random PL dude: TOWER DOWN
DBRB: Where are the hostiles at ?
Me: sigh
DBRB: WAIT IMPERIAN, DONT MOVE WE GONNA BAIL YOU OUT
Me: sigh, pls dont come and screw up our battlereport on the killboard with 300 dudes showing on our side ( our k/d backbone !!! )
DBRB: Sorry what did you say ? got disconnected, we are warping in.
Me: sigh ( boat starts to whore on mails with 300 dudes to screw up our battlereport )
Jogyn: RUS ?

SO the final BR of the "REAL ACTION" is

NC: 110 ( +- Vigil ) vs KSC: 300 (+- 10 )

NC Kills: 170
NC Losses: 60 ( 20 Hacs, 1 Guardian, 20 Pods )

View from the other side

I hate to put a damper on the joyous occasion of NC engaging superior numbers (which you did), but if you look at the Atlas, -A-, GC and Cow KBs, it looks like they were losing as many ships to each other as they were to you.

You need to teach the KSC the art of shared comms/fc channels so that you can get the ~!!8*goodfitez-!~~ we know that you want.

[Meester]

In other news BURN EDEN have joined AAA - http://www.a-kills.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=379599

[eldaec]

Seems NC are losing half a dozen titans this evening because :ccp:.

Jumped out and got killed after they jumped out but hadn't jumped out or some such crap.

[Comstar]

NC has lost 8+ Titans, 12+ supercaps vs White Noise in the north.

Goonswarm, TEST, Cursed just lost our entire fleet in a doomed attempt to kill 3 CSAA's in Immensea. We never got to the system. IT lost one carrier.

Complete and utter victory to the SC and their allies - all due to lag and the system unable to load.

[slog]

NC has lost 8+ Titans, 12+ supercaps vs White Noise in the north.

Goonswarm, TEST, Cursed just lost our entire fleet in a doomed attempt to kill 3 CSAA's in Immensea. We never got to the system. IT lost one carrier.

Complete and utter victory to the SC and their allies - all due to lag and the system unable to load.

I'm completely convinced that CCP doesn't care enough about the Lag to actually invest the resources necessary to fix it.

[Endie]

It was an Initiative Mercenaries carrier, not IT.  And we had abandoned the idea of killing any CSAAs by the time we decided to fight (the CSAA towers were already repped) and were just looking for a fight in a different system.

[Meester]

White Noise certainly have a lot of supercaps.

[Sir T]

CCP are on the case!

CCP Zymurgist

Hi guys, we are aware of the issues and are looking into it. Hold on tight should get better soon.

[tgr]

And by "soon" he means "as soon as everyone leaves that system".

[slog]

CCP are on the case!

CCP Zymurgist

Hi guys, we are aware of the issues and are looking into it. Hold on tight should get better soon.

Honest we care a lot!!  Ignore the last 6 months of inaction!

[TheDreamr]

Honest we care a lot!!  Ignore the last 6 months of inaction!

Not so much inaction as methodically clutching at straws during their Singularity load tests which have mostly been on-par with Tranquillity to date.

[Sir T]

CCP gave back 4 titans, 3 moms and 30 caps to the NC after yesterdays clusterfuck

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4715/20100617142629.jpg

Of course, bieng CCP they didn't do something simple like, I don't know, drop them into peoples hangers or even sending the NC a mail telling them. Instead the empty hulls simply reappeared where they were jumped to. This resulted in people not knowing what the fuck followed by a mad scramble and one of the Titans was stolen by CO2.  

[Gets]

~emergent gameplay~

[Pezzle]

:CCP:

[Sir T]

Post Server upgrade scrap

http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?6452-providence&p=97114&viewfull=1#post97114

-A-, Atlas, U'K and Co2 vs. CVA, PL and associated CVA pet alliances in F-Y.

Server almost totally unresponsive, I think the last Atlas hotdrop finally took the field, but honestly, I can't even say because it's so lagged out and dead in system. Fight has been back and forth for what seems like hours... tons of -A- in system trying to smacktalk which is probably causing half of the lag.

Edit: 407 in local as I write this.

Edit x2: Since I'm stuck on a gate unable to do anything, CVA went in to contest the F-Y sov-handover from -A- to Co2. Co2 called in 100+ -A- who duked it out with the CVA fleet of 110 or so. At some point, U'K fleet arrived on the scene and things were bloody for both sides, but -A- and pets were taking the field. Then PL hotdropped and things turned against -A- and pets. Atlas fleets arrived/dropped (have no idea where they came from, honestly) and everyone duked it out in a big old ball until the server died. I think Atlas/-A-/U'K held the field at the end... maybe, not sure. CCP took most of us out.

Edit x3: -A- smacking PL for being blobbers. Stay classy, paper tiger.

The results are in! The lag has been upgraded.

[tgr]

tons of -A- in system trying to smacktalk which is probably causing half of the lag.

*sigh*.

[slog]

tons of -A- in system trying to smacktalk which is probably causing half of the lag.

*sigh*.

Everyone knows that IRC chat clogs up gigabytes of bandwidth.

[Kitsune]

Oh CCP, I had faith that you'd manage to keep your game unplayable.  Bless you for not letting me down!

[Sir T]

This thread is lonely

Ltd SpacePig said:
This just in.. RA dropped 3 sbus in C-J in insmother.. and 360 in local.. pew pew coming up...

Shadoo said:
360 support and 50+ capitals sieging Insmotherrussia.

ATLAS undocking bombers, PL getting popcorn while playing WoT.

In unshocking news

Atlas dude:

Aurora148 said:
atlas wont defend insmother

[Endie]

Also I got Goons a region.  It's nbd, I just do this stuff.

[Stabs]

Is it Scalding Pass? The alliance I'm now in (Gentlemen's Club) is in full retreat from a coalition of Goons and NC.

[Endie]

Is it Scalding Pass? The alliance I'm now in (Gentlemen's Club) is in full retreat from a coalition of Goons and NC.

Heh I have lost count of how often I've been offered Scalding Pass.  Not to mention that we could just take chunks of it right now.  I did arrange our involvement in the region back in the second half of April, and the Insmother situation at the moment is a kinda spin-off of that, too, but no: the region is Deklein.

GC were actually OK: I genuinely liked their schtick/gimmick, and they were fun to fight with our roams.  CoW and Primary. made the mistake of dedicating their very identity to proclaiming just how much better than goons they were (even having killboards full of images of dead bees), which was dumb when they couldn't deal with our presence.  Same mistake that BoB made.