APB: Finally, I Can Be A PUNK!

[LK]

Every user who talks about the game in a reviewing fashion too early will be banned.

You mean...

No formal reviews of the Beta. This means:

* No posts about the Beta in the BiiF forum
* No grades/points in your posts (e.g. graphics = A/90, gameplay = B/80, overall=B/80)
* No non-personal play/don't play statements. It's okay to say to say you will or will not play at release but no blanket statements about whether you think other people should play or not play.

Your statement and what's put there is very different. I think the keyword is "No formal reviews of the Beta."

[HaemishM]

Jesus christ you need a god damn handbook to keep track of all the shit in this game. I am not OCD enough to play this...not to mention just uninterested in general, but all the stuff they packed in all the little nooks just makes it seem very tedious to keep track of everything just to play.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I like it when they pack lotsa stuff.  Keeps me coming back for more so I can learn more :)!

Quantity does not equal depth, and I think they have made the mistake of thinking it does.

[Mrbloodworth]

This is going to get me flamed.

First, how many people can't get in the game right now? If you can't, check out MMORPG.com where 10,000 more keys have been released today. Second, we had a RTW representative allow us leeway on the beta NDA, how many games do that (Retroactive beta loosening)? How many sites have they done this for? Third, any one right now can write a preview of the game, hell you can write a review right now... go for it, it just can't be based on the beta (KTTC is not under NDA). There are already ones all over the net.

Does this really sound like a company trying to be the sole source of info? Does it really sound like they are trying to hide things when they allow beta videos all over the place? Once open beta is done, everything will be wiped, all the customization players have come out with, all the fancy cars. The game relies on users as content. The letter clearly states they can write previews, you can post screen shots and videos, but if you use the provided key, let the user content build up before writing a review with a score.

Lastly, the request was for official reviews using provided keys, not previews, not individual users or even open beta players (KTTC). A good number of us here have shared our views, good or bad. I haven't seen the gestapo yet.

Granted, I don't think the PR hit will be worth it, but I think people are over reacting, and that "journalist" is simply using this as a way to grab reads.

To be honest, its been pretty dam open for a bit now, so I think a good deal of this is over reaction. I fully expect the previews, reviews and the like to be similar to what we all here have been saying, good, bad, middle road. This won't stop this.

Of course none of the logic in the world, right or not, will stop people from saying "OMG they are hiding a shitty game and this proves it!". So, in this respect, they should not have even asked. I can see in a game where so much of it is user made, they would LIKE to have some time for it to ramp up, but you dont always get what you want. With the current crop of reviews that sound as objective as a forum post thees days, I can't say I blame them, but I think the cost was to high to even attempt.

[LK]

Real Time Worlds has stated through this action that they aren't confident in the product they are providing to the public on Day One. They want the extra time for reviewers to see player customization and the such, which I think they believe will balance out a review because of the overwhelming positive that can be said about the customization (which has zero impact on gameplay, where the bulk of the complaints are).

Only consolation I can see with regards to MMOs: A respectable information source will understand when making a review that network issues can impact Day One performance, and minimize in their reviews the impact network performance has on enjoyment of the game, focusing instead on the game mechanics and other aspects. "Hey, just remember every MMO goes through this" type stuff.

But this makes it too obvious that the press is out to serve the companies instead of the consumer, just like the Kane & Lynch debacle. I suppose that's true of any website that features advertisements regardless of the source. It's why I have some mad respect for the Penny-Arcade guys, because they're honest, they don't advertise unless they believe in the game (Tycho retracting his praise for Blur being a recent example of how they acknowledge their unique position in the industry), and the fact I'd know they'd look at this embargo and mock the shit out of it.

Oh, I guess I forgot to say something about Bloodworth: You should really stop giving RTW the benefit of the doubt. If they knowingly put in suck in their game, and instead of fixing the suck, pointed people towards other areas that don't suck, that's just business / PR tactics instead of competence in game production. I don't believe they intended for their game to be bad, but something happened, here they are, and the marketing and business aspect of shipping a game has taken over to try and gloss over the many, many cracks in the veneer.

[Falconeer]

Bloodworth, you are not shilling. You are possessed.

[Mrbloodworth]

Real Time Worlds has stated through this action that they aren't confident in the product they are providing to the public on Day One.

Day one was when the open beta started, as many here have pointed out a number of times.

[Nija]

Bloodworth, before you post, say this out loud: "Nobody cares about my opinion."

After saying that, if you feel differently, hit the back button and continue reading and, essentially, stop posting. Thx.

[LK]

Day one was when the open beta started, as many here have pointed out a number of times.

Day one was when the open beta started

Day one ... open beta

open beta

 

[Mrbloodworth]

Day one was when the open beta started, as many here have pointed out a number of times.

Day one was when the open beta started

Day one ... open beta

open beta

 

Yeah, the KTTC is open beta, that many have pointed out here, in practice is a demo, that wont be much different from release.

Did it magically just become not the case?

Bloodworth, before you post, say this out loud: "Nobody cares about my opinion."

After saying that, if you feel differently, hit the back button and continue reading and, essentially, stop posting. Thx.

I can do that. I guess I need more group think.

[FatuousTwat]

Honestly, if you just play, it all kinda happens.

The problem is, it seems to take 10-15 hours to finally get a handle on most of what is going on, and by that time your preview time is up. 5-10 hours was a huge fucking mistake.

[LK]

You're all over the fucking place.

Yes, open beta is a demo period. Yes, KTTC is an open beta. Yes, KTTC is a demo.

I think you missed the part where I was pointing out how you called the Day One for this game an Open Beta. If I recall, KTTC characters are wiped, it's an OPEN BETA, and Day One's are when the game is available for sale, people start subscribing, and that miraculous patch that developers work their ass off to make between Gold Master and Ship (Day One) comes out.

However, I fully expect APB to be equivalent to an open beta on Day One, just like Frontiersville is. It's still a beta! But we'd like your money.

Edit: Also, Day One's are a good time to post or start working on reviews of the game since some consumers would like an independent opinion of the product before making a buying decision.

Double Edit: I'll be blunt. Beta changes to Retail / Live on Day One.

[Mrbloodworth]

Honestly, if you just play, it all kinda happens.

The problem is, it seems to take 10-15 hours to finally get a handle on most of what is going on, and by that time your preview time is up. 5-10 hours was a huge fucking mistake.

Yeah definitely. Soon it wont matter, but 5 hours isn't enough, especially with the tutorial/info as it is.

You're all over the fucking place.

I'm not. Pages back people were going on and on about how this is the demo, and how all opinions will be formed, right now. This is day one, where any one can join, and there is no NDA. Now suddenly, this isn't the case. Some how, they are hiding everything, and are trying to be the sole source of info.

[FatuousTwat]

Do you have a link to the mmorpg.com key giveaway? I might have had an idiot moment, I can't seem to find where they are giving them away.

[LK]

The word of mouth campaign can't be quashed. They are trying to regulate the mainstream. The mainstream has very concrete definitions on what's a preview and what's a review.

Yeah, impressions will be formed by this demo. But mainstream will call them previews. The game shouldn't be considered "done" (emphasis on quotes, I understand the MMO development cycle) until Day One. Closest comparison I can make is movies: Reviews come out early for movies because they aren't making last minute changes right before the reel hits the projector in the movie theater. It's DONE (note: no quotes). We have a shifting terminology for the things we're describing, but too often companies are throwing out "Beta!" after something is publically available and Retail / Live. So Day One seems more fitting a term.

You can get a very good idea about the game from the demo, people will talk like it's the final product, there's enough signs to indicate it is the final product, but until it's actually out there for sale, Day One, Retail / Live, RTW is well within their right to remove the product from the shelves, keep the servers offline, and put another year or two into the game. It would destroy them if they did that. But they have that right until it's up for sale. The game as it stands has many systems designed poorly that a miracle patch won't fix it. We're talking complete redesign to fix, and if they fucked it up the first time, there's no telling they'll get it right the next.

What we got goes beyond disappointment and into something else that necessitates harsh language to drive home just how far off the mark this game is. The customization angle isn't a strong enough positive to overwhelm the other areas. Hell, because customization is so good, it may be fueling rage for how dreadful the other aspects of the game are, because you'd love to have that customization in *a good game*.

[Morfiend]

Are the vehicle physics and damage model superior to GTA3? The one before vice city.

I don't think so.

[Mrbloodworth]

Do you have a link to the mmorpg.com key giveaway? I might have had an idiot moment, I can't seem to find where they are giving them away.

Yeah man, NP.

The word of mouth campaign can't be quashed. They are trying to regulate the mainstream. The mainstream has very concrete definitions on what's a preview and what's a review.

Yeah, impressions will be formed by this demo. But mainstream will call them previews. The game shouldn't be considered "done" (emphasis on quotes, I understand the MMO development cycle) until Day One. Closest comparison I can make is movies: Reviews come out early for movies because they aren't making last minute changes right before the reel hits the projector in the movie theater. It's DONE (note: no quotes). We have a shifting terminology for the things we're describing, but too often companies are throwing out "Beta!" after something is publically available and Retail / Live. So Day One seems more fitting a term.

You can get a very good idea about the game from the demo, people will talk like it's the final product, there's enough signs to indicate it is the final product, but until it's actually out there for sale, Day One, Retail / Live, RTW is well within their right to remove the product from the shelves, keep the servers offline, and put another year or two into the game. It would destroy them if they did that. But they have that right until it's up for sale. The game as it stands has many systems designed poorly that a miracle patch won't fix it. We're talking complete redesign to fix, and if they fucked it up the first time, there's no telling they'll get it right the next.

What we got goes beyond disappointment and into something else that necessitates harsh language to drive home just how far off the mark this game is. The customization angle isn't a strong enough positive to overwhelm the other areas. Hell, because customization is so good, it may be fueling rage for how dreadful the other aspects of the game are, because you'd love to have that customization in *a good game*.

I agree (perhaps not in severity). Thank you for posting that. In fact, it aligns with things I have been saying. So, we have little disagreement, other than i think aspects of the game are rather fun. I tended to discuss with others pros and cons, rather than one long post and be done with it. The thing that got me is the fact that due to this, responses have made it sound like they want to hold all info for a week. So they either  really suck at that, or are absolutely brilliant in scrubbing the web of anything said about the game.

Yes, mainstream needs to wait a week and review the released product, however RTW has been very open about the game.

[FatuousTwat]

Do you have a link to the mmorpg.com key giveaway? I might have had an idiot moment, I can't seem to find where they are giving them away.

Yeah man, NP.

Thanks, for some reason it wasn't appearing in their list of APB news.

[HaemishM]

Does this really sound like a company trying to be the sole source of info? Does it really sound like they are trying to hide things when they allow beta videos all over the place? Once open beta is done, everything will be wiped, all the customization players have come out with, all the fancy cars. The game relies on users as content. The letter clearly states they can write previews, you can post screen shots and videos, but if you use the provided key, let the user content build up before writing a review with a score.

Yes, you will get flamed. This is a bullshit paragraph and you know it. User content? SERIOUSLY? User content has fuckall to do with whether or not the shooty parts are good, whether or not the driving is a lag-filled piece of trash, or whether or not the GUI is seriously confusing and overly complex. You can write a review of this game which has nothing to do with user-generated content.

The embargoes are about keeping millions of gamers whose only game news is delivered through IGN, Gamespot or some of the other bigger name gaming web sites (quality not withstanding) from hearing about the flaws from game reviewers as opposed to typical flaming asshole on the Internet that can easily be written off as cranky Comic Book Guy.

[Mrbloodworth]

Does this really sound like a company trying to be the sole source of info? Does it really sound like they are trying to hide things when they allow beta videos all over the place? Once open beta is done, everything will be wiped, all the customization players have come out with, all the fancy cars. The game relies on users as content. The letter clearly states they can write previews, you can post screen shots and videos, but if you use the provided key, let the user content build up before writing a review with a score.

Yes, you will get flamed. This is a bullshit paragraph and you know it. User content? SERIOUSLY? User content has fuckall to do with whether or not the shooty parts are good, whether or not the driving is a lag-filled piece of trash, or whether or not the GUI is seriously confusing and overly complex. You can write a review of this game which has nothing to do with user-generated content.

Yes, and? Will any of that change 10 days later? If you are of an opinion, you will put it in your review. Unless you believe in miracle patches. No one here does (i hope), so..?

Here's the thing, some people do not think the shooty parts are bad, ETC... It really really seems some people just can't get over that others may like things others don't, and its starting to look as if people skip reading things I post.

Granted, I don't think the PR hit will be worth it, but I think people are over reacting, and that "journalist" is simply using this as a way to grab reads.

To be honest, its been pretty dam open for a bit now, so I think a good deal of this is over reaction. I fully expect the previews, reviews and the like to be similar to what we all here have been saying, good, bad, middle road. This won't stop this.

Of course none of the logic in the world, right or not, will stop people from saying "OMG they are hiding a shitty game and this proves it!". So, in this respect, they should not have even asked. I can see in a game where so much of it is user made, they would LIKE to have some time for it to ramp up, but you dont always get what you want. With the current crop of reviews that sound as objective as a forum post thees days, I can't say I blame them, but I think the cost was to high to even attempt.

[HaemishM]

You are not this naive.

What will change in 10 days? Most of the gaming public who buys games will have bought the goddamn thing 10-days after. The video game industry is hardcoded to buy things within the first two weeks of release, and that's when the majority of sales happen. The mainstream gaming press, shitty as it is, will only have glowing previews available for that gaming public to judge the game, instead of reviews which may actually talk about some of the negatives.

[Mrbloodworth]

Have you looked at the previews, they already run the gambit, just like opinions in this thread.

I also already said it was a stupid move.

I'm sorry:

"My god what were thees cock gobblers thinking, this is a sham!".

[LK]

Here's the thing, some people do not think the shooty parts are bad, ETC... It really really seems some people just can't get over that others may like things others don't, and its starting to look as if people skip reading things I post.

You know, some people like having their balls crushed under a stiletto heel. Let's respect that viewpoint and not be so harsh about the negatives of having your balls crushed.

I wonder, did they have an alpha with outside input, or did they have a bunch of sycophant true believers telling them what they wanted to hear instead of what they needed to hear?

[HaemishM]

Have you looked at the previews, they already run the gambit, just like opinions in this thread.

GAMUT, GODDAMNIT.

gam·bit
   /ˈgæmbɪt/ Show Spelled[gam-bit]
–noun
1.
Chess. an opening in which a player seeks to obtain some advantage by sacrificing a pawn or piece.
2.
any maneuver by which one seeks to gain an advantage.
3.
a remark made to open or redirect a conversation.

gam·ut
   /ˈgæmət/ Show Spelled[gam-uht]
–noun
1.
the entire scale or range: the gamut of dramatic emotion from grief to joy.
2.
Music.
a.
the whole series of recognized musical notes.
b.
the major scale.

[Mrbloodworth]

Heh, my bad.

[Chinchilla]

Well I like it and I will be playing more this weekend and next week.  We shall see how my interest continues as I continue to play.  If it keeps up like it has been... it is looking good.

[Trippy]

Every user who talks about the game in a reviewing fashion too early will be banned.

You mean...

No formal reviews of the Beta. This means:

* No posts about the Beta in the BiiF forum
* No grades/points in your posts (e.g. graphics = A/90, gameplay = B/80, overall=B/80)
* No non-personal play/don't play statements. It's okay to say to say you will or will not play at release but no blanket statements about whether you think other people should play or not play.

Your statement and what's put there is very different. I think the keyword is "No formal reviews of the Beta."

Yes the above rules against formally reviewing the game here on f13.net only applies to the Beta (and earlier).

The review embargo, as I understand it, only applies to those who received/are receiving "press keys" to the released game. Those of you who actually purchase a release copy feel free to do a "formal" review of the released (not Beta) game on or after release day.

[Mrbloodworth]

   The ‘Key to the City’ event is a demo event, not an open beta in the usual sense of the term. Players only have 5 hours of Action District playtime and are well aware that characters, customizations, vehicles, clothing and symbols created during the event are going to be wiped in time for launch.

    As a result anyone attempting to review the game during this period would experience a somewhat unrealistic representation of what APB is offering the user and as such it was deemed inappropriate to allow reviewers to do so.

    The decision was purely based on wanting reviewers to experience and see the full live server with players having both progressed and expressed themselves. Our service will also be down for the period between the end of ‘Key to the City’ on June 19th and the start of our ‘Early Access’ event in North America on June 26th. This too would have prevented reviewers from playing the game.

    The initial July 6th embargo date was based on the UK street date of July 2nd and on press not having access to the game until said date. We are however moving the embargo date forward to July 2nd and giving reviewers invitations to the ‘Early Access’ event in order to ensure that they are able to properly experience APB and its community in time for street date.

    Realtime Worlds is confident that APB All Points Bulletin is a great game and we have taken on board all the feedback provided to us by our community during the closed beta testing period in preparation for our launch.

    If we were not confident in the game we would not have sent out hundreds of thousands of access keys for our ongoing ‘Key to the City’ event, we would also not be encouraging players to post their own videos and screenshots online.

    The best way to make the decision for yourself is to jump in to the Key to the City. So head over to www.apb.com, grab a key and draw your own opinion.

Link.

I would also like to remind some people of this.

[tazelbain]

Bloodworth, you are not shilling. You are possessed.

How's Vanguard treating you these days?

[AutomaticZen]

So then shouldn't they have a full live beta or stress test of some sort for free?

Retail release without allowing reviews is just a horrible idea.  Makes people more inclined to listen to those bad previews.

[Nija]

Are the vehicle physics and damage model superior to GTA3? The one before vice city.

I don't think so.

So... what is better than GTA3? Right away I'd say multiplayer and character/vehicle customization. What else am I missing?

[Mrbloodworth]

E3 2010: APB (All Points Bulletin) Interview w/ EJ Moreland

[Falconeer]

Bloodworth, you are not shilling. You are possessed.

How's Vanguard treating you these days?

Are you implying that Bloodworth will come up with a public apology and the admission that the game is shit in about a month the same way I did?

Besides, I didn't mean he's possessed because he likes the game a lot, even though I am not used to these levels of rabid fanboism on the f13 boards. I said it because he can't refrain from posting, he's getting voracious and compulsive as the sane child of some famous insane posters who have their own dedicated thread on these boards. He seems out of control and unable to stop. He's haunting the APB thread as an aroused poltergeist, helping people like a community manager, fixing holes in RTW bad GUI choices like an excited producer and providing links to advertising interviews like a marketing grunt. It's only a matter of minutes after anyone posts anything in this thread before Bloodworth comes to help, link, fix, suggest, debate, point out, agree, disagree, or simply battle for APB's "right" to be appreciated in full.

I don't understand what the hell happened to him, he really seems possessed by a nasty APB demon which compels him to post and link all he can about the game right before someone finally calls an exorcist.


I have different memories about the Vanguard saga, but if this is what I did, I guess I had that exorcism and I am glad I stopped. For the apologies, use the search function.

[tazelbain]

So it comes down to your overzealous behavior was the good kind and MBW's is the bad kind?  Splitting hairs.  As to your apologies, I don't think you should have apologized. Being passionate about a game that is undeserving is hardly a transgression.

[Falconeer]

So it comes down to your overzealous behavior was the good kind and MBW's is the bad kind?

If I thought my kind was the good one, I wouldn't have apologised.

[Senses]

I find Bloodworth's enthusiasm for games a refreshing change from the rest of the pessimism and negativity that is the mainstay for this forum, even when he is completely wrong.  I also find that he generally comes off far more intelligent, and clearheaded than  the rest of you who get caught up on incorrect word usage and enjoy repeating what has been said in 5 different fonts.