EW's Top 25 Sci-Fi of the last 25 years

[lariac]

I kinda liked the dog...made me hate that floating bloated turd even more.

Giant Worms though that was cool.

[WindupAtheist]

All I remember of Dune is a white haze of pain, and Sting in some crazy armor screaming "I WILL KILL HIM!"  If I think about it too hard, my nose bleeds.

[Chenghiz]

I agree with most of the people here.. a lot of that stuff isn't even scifi. Scifi is Foundation, the Ender Saga, Dune, Ringworld.. not Star Wars, that clownshoes Starship Toopers movie, or really even BSG. I'm not even sure if Firefly would qualify. That's not to say I don't like non-scifi, but come on. Spaceships and lazers don't make it scifi.

[Simond]

That depends on your definition of 'sci-fi' ;)

Anyway, the list needs some anime - LoGH or Voices of a Distant Star or something...or even the usual cliched Akira/Evangelion/GitS.

[schild]

Honestly. And I'm just throwing this out there. I'd ALMOST be willing to allow Higurashi on the list. Probably Porco Rosso as well.

Granted, they were both pretty untraditional sci-fi, I'd still classify them - or at least parts of them - as sci-fi.

[Chenghiz]

That depends on your definition of 'sci-fi' ;)

Anyway, the list needs some anime - LoGH or Voices of a Distant Star or something...or even the usual cliched Akira/Evangelion/GitS.

I think it's important to make a distinction between the setting and the genre of media. Just as MMORPG is not a genre, scifi is not a setting - it's the use of a premise (high technology) to discuss or expound upon social issues. Most of what people would call scifi I would call fantasy, because it uses high technology for escapism rather than as a lever for commentary.

And yeah, Ghost in the Shell and Evangelion probably belong on there. Eva might be a bit tenuous as 'Top 25' material but it's close if not there.

[Righ]

Yes, but that's because you're being an art-school snob. Sci-fi includes pulp space opera because its the masses that get to define genre labels, not indignant fans of serious science fiction. If there were any justice, we'd be discussing the top 25 science fiction novels rather than which half dozen mainstream TV series or movies ought to top an idiotic and ill considered list. But there ain't. TANJ.

[schild]

Ghost in the Shell doesn't f'ing belong on any lists. Except for Most Overrated. And what's funny is it's usually the elitist (as in the MOST elite, rather than folks who are simply elitist) of the snobs who talk about it like it's good.

Fucking style over substance. Ghost in the Shell is Bruckheimer with a thesaurus.

[Murgos]

Ghost in the Shell doesn't f'ing belong on any lists. Except for Most Overrated. And what's funny is it's usually the elitist (as in the MOST elite, rather than folks who are simply elitist) of the snobs who talk about it like it's good.

So, what you are saying is that you're not elite?

[schild]

Ghost in the Shell doesn't f'ing belong on any lists. Except for Most Overrated. And what's funny is it's usually the elitist (as in the MOST elite, rather than folks who are simply elitist) of the snobs who talk about it like it's good.

So, what you are saying is that you're not elite?

Completely not.

[Strazos]

Oh noes, I must be elitist because I find part of GitS to be pretty interesting.

[Evil Elvis]

GitS is a great movie.  Period.

[schild]

GitS is a great LOOKING movie, much like Final Fantasy Spirits Within.

Here's the thing, like, in a vacuum, none of GitS is really "bad" per se. But when you look at other anime - including sci-fi anime - and other anime movies, it just doesn't stand up. At all. And I'm pretty damn forgiving when it comes to anime. I bought the Love Hina Perfect Collection. Hell, I have the BoogiePop Phantom limited box set.

[Strazos]

I've actually only seen the original movie once. I saw Innocence as well. I was mainly referring to SAC.

[Margalis]

scifi is not a setting - it's the use of a premise (high technology) to discuss or expound upon social issues

That definition is far too narrow. Sci-fi has to be allegorical?

Dune is only about social issues in a very loose sense. The same is true of the three rules of robotics books. There are tons and tons of great science fiction short stories that have nothing to do with social issues.

That is very much your pet definition.

Pew pew lasers is sci-fi. You may not like it, but it is sci-fi. Lensman anyone? You are going to seriously claim that the Lensman books are not sci-fi?

[Evil Elvis]

Personally, I don't like 99% of anime, but that's just me.  Lodoss War, GitS (tv shows, movies), ninja scroll, princess mononoke, cowboy beebop, fullmetal alchemist, etc is the type of stuff I've found enjoyable.  I can't get into stuff like Naruto or Bleach.

But I like GitS beyond just the art.  It might not be the bestest story ever, but I found it solid, interesting, and overall extremely well executed.  I loved every bit of it, from the music to the introspective moments to the action sequences.  In comparison, I've found lots of other "shiny" anime completely unwatchable.  Spirits Within stunk.  I thought Advent Children was incomprehensible and unwatchable.  Evangelion became a complete mess with seemingly random biblical references thrown in to make it seem deep.  I don't even like FLCL, despite really enjoying the artistic style.

[Simond]

There was a reason why I included GitS with Eva & Akira in the 'cliched' part. I like all three, but I'm not a 'ZOMG best anime ever' fan of them.

(Now Utena, OTOH....)

Anyway, thinking about it, I'd rather see either Haruhi or Nanoha in the list; Haruhi could quite easily have been based on a 50's or early 60's era sci-fi story or a Twilight Zone episode or something similar (Spoiler)Teenaged girl has the power of God; and a time-traveller, a psychic and a manifestation of a transdimensional group of AIs try to observe & potentially manipulate her (End Spoiler), and the 'magic' in Nanoha looks suspiciously like "sufficiently advanced technology" to me.

[Strazos]

Personally, I don't like 99% of anime, but that's just me.  Lodoss War, GitS (tv shows, movies), ninja scroll, princess mononoke, cowboy beebop, fullmetal alchemist, etc is the type of stuff I've found enjoyable.  I can't get into stuff like Naruto or Bleach.

Derail, but from the sound of it, you should give Black Lagoon a shot if you haven't already.

[Evil Elvis]

Personally, I don't like 99% of anime, but that's just me.  Lodoss War, GitS (tv shows, movies), ninja scroll, princess mononoke, cowboy beebop, fullmetal alchemist, etc is the type of stuff I've found enjoyable.  I can't get into stuff like Naruto or Bleach.

Derail, but from the sound of it, you should give Black Lagoon a shot if you haven't already.

Thanks, I'll try to check it out.

[stray]

The only thing that puts me to sleep faster than sci-fi anime is the intro theme song to MASH. Almost all of it is boring, overly cerebral, and dialogue heavy. Just not my kind of storytelling really.

Besides stuff like that, there's giant robots. Which can be OK and all, but I can only take so much. Also, many robot animes are just repeating the problems I mentioned above as well.


I would, however, say that Arcadia of My Youth is the shit. Captain Harlock, while dated, is still good.

Fist of the North Star could be considered sci-fi (in the Mad Max, post apocalyptic sense), and that's pretty much some of the best anime ever.

I'd also recommend Spriggan.

[Murgos]

Suicide is painless,
it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please

Is he asleep yet?

Good now we can all rag on him for saying Sci-Fi Anime puts him to sleep and then going on for a paragraph about how much he likes Sci-Fi Anime.

[Megrim]

You might even say he, strayed, off course...

[stray]

I mentioned one sci-fi anime (Harlock). The other two are a stretch. That I even suggest them should illustrate the low opinion I have of science fiction in that medium.

[EDIT]

Goin' to sleep now btw ;)

[Chenghiz]

Well whatever, I'm not going to attempt to force my definition of scifi upon the masses. I think space opera falls pretty solidly under the category of fantasy though.

[schild]

Oh, space opera is no doubt fantasy. But space opera isn't an all encompassing genre the way sci-fi is. Which is to say, I *think* it would be possible to be both.

[angry.bob]

Escaflowne was great sci-fi anime. Seriously. More people should like Escaflowne. So was LoGH if you can find watceable, subbed copies of all 9 million episodes. ***** of the Stars were generally good too. Strange Days was good Sci fi as well I thought.

[Margalis]

Personally, I don't like 99% of anime, but that's just me.  Lodoss War, GitS (tv shows, movies), ninja scroll, princess mononoke, cowboy beebop, fullmetal alchemist, etc is the type of stuff I've found enjoyable.  I can't get into stuff like Naruto or Bleach.

Your taste sound similar to mine.

Things like Naruto and Bleach are very formulaic, and also very slow. I would like them if they were paced about 5 times faster maybe. They come from a long line of "hero levels up, learns special moves that he has to yell out the name for, etc etc" style Anime. I wonder where that stuff started. Dragonball is the oldest one that I'm aware of but I don't know much about it overall.

[Merusk]

I think that whole spiel goes even deeper than Anime and into Japanese Myths and legends, Murgos.  Kind of like how in Eurocentric myths the solo hero who is tutored by the old man who gets killed always pops up. 

[Murgos]

That was Margalis.  But, if it matters, I agree completely.

Though, the boy taught by the master who then has to avenge his masters death is very common in oriental themes too.  I do know that in some classic Japanese tales they do follow that wandering sort of path where the tale seems to be what's important, not that they get anywhere or accomplish anything.  The Tale of Gengi for example.

[stray]

Personally, I don't like 99% of anime, but that's just me.  Lodoss War, GitS (tv shows, movies), ninja scroll, princess mononoke, cowboy beebop, fullmetal alchemist, etc is the type of stuff I've found enjoyable.  I can't get into stuff like Naruto or Bleach.

Your taste sound similar to mine.

Things like Naruto and Bleach are very formulaic, and also very slow. I would like them if they were paced about 5 times faster maybe. They come from a long line of "hero levels up, learns special moves that he has to yell out the name for, etc etc" style Anime. I wonder where that stuff started. Dragonball is the oldest one that I'm aware of but I don't know much about it overall.

That particular formula is probably the greatest guilty pleasure for me, but I don't know the history behind it either. One of the common threads (though it isn't completed limited to it) is that most of those stories come from the same comic publishing house (Shonen Jump). And it isn't all fantasy or martial arts either. Slam Dunk and Prince of Tennis contain some of the same storytelling elements, except they apply it to sports. Other series, like Initial D (not a Jump series though) are about street racing, and apply the formula to cars somewhat. There's also "Beck: Mongolian Chop Squad", which is about a kid who wants to make the "greatest rock band", and all the obstacles he has to face along the way.

Another thing: Most of the time, character progress isn't really about learning "special moves" so much as it is about perseverance. Naruto has such a strong determination to "become the Hokage" that he never gives up a fight. Ichigo from Bleach is obsessed with protecting friends and family, and in turn, always manages to muster enough energy to get up and kick ass again. No matter what the theme or motivation is, all the protagonists in these different cartoons have a completely unshakable, superhuman-like will. Maybe there's something in Japanese culture to explain that, but I doubt it (I mean, having a strong will is probably a treasured virtue no matter where you go).

Besides that, all opponents/protagonists/enemies have a gimmick power that must be figured out and overcome. I don't think that's really anime specific though. One could say that the same formula has been used in action movies for a long time. At least since James Bond.

[EDIT] Heh. Sorry for being a bit longwinded there. Didn't realize how long it was until I finished it.

[Tebonas]

Can we return from your various Asian fetishes to Science Ficion movies again?

Saw Sunshine yesterday. That was damn good Science Fiction, and completely out of the left field. Suspected a Popcorn Flick and was very positively surprised.

[stray]

Is it an Asian Fetish if you're actually Asian? =|


Anyways, if something was to top my list, then I guess it'd be Aliens. The Road Warrior is off by one year (1981), but that'd be my favorite sci-fi film ever.

Runners up: Blade Runner, The Terminator, Total Recall, the Thing, Spaceballs, and *ahem* the Matrix (only the first one, of course). TV show wise, there's DS9, Futurama, and the X-Files.


Pretty standard choices, I guess. I think the only unconventional sci-fi film that'd make a top 25 for me would be the Re-Animator (speaking of that, I need a new avatar....). There was also this little Kyle McLachlan flick called the "Hidden" (kind of a Terminator meets the Thing deal) -- B movie for sure, but for the first 15 minutes alone, it's some pretty funny shit.

[schild]

Guys, the best spin on the "hero levels up, yells some bullshit" is Yakitate Japan! Also, if you want a series that Doesn't do that for the most part, and is more memorable - watch Hunter X Hunter. Neither of these shows have been licensed, go grab the fansubs or pirated "import" dvds (ya know, hong kong/taiwanese crap) and enjoy them. They're both very easily in my top 10.

/...derail

And speaking of Kyle McLachlan. What would Twin Peaks fall under? Sure, it's mystery, but that whole little place is like a world in a bottle. Fantasy maybe? You gotta admit, it gets really fucked up. Calling it sci-fi is questionable though...

[stray]

That's hard to say. Twin Peaks, as well as Mullholland Dr. and Lost Highway are all kind of unclassifiable.

Though if I were to file them by generic Video Store standards, I'd just say Drama.

/shrug

That probably doesn't cut it either.


[EDIT]

I forgot to put Buck Rogers on my list.

Seriously, I love that shit. If there was ever show needing a remake (which, I guess, would be the third time?), then that would be it. There's just too much serious sci-fi out there. We need more intergalactic disco space pimps -- with intergalactic disco space whores. And penis shaped robots.

[Margalis]

Twin Peaks is surrealist drama I guess...