05/04 SpiderMan 3

[Riggswolfe]

Anyone picking this up for whichever system? I've been debating it as Spiderman 2 was quite fun with the open ended aspect of the gameplay.

[schild]

It has to be better than the goddamn movie.

Ugh. Still bitter.

[Morfiend]

I enjoyed the hell out of the last 2 games. Spider-Man 2 and Ultimate Spider-Man. Im going to pick it up baring any major reviews saying its really really really bad.

Ill post impressions here later.

[Ironwood]

Please do - I loved the hell out of Spiderman 2 and wanted to know if it's worth it for my PS2.

[Murgos]

It has to be better than the goddamn movie.

Ugh. Still bitter.

Not according to IGN.

[Morfiend]

Humm.. I said I would hold of if it got really really bad reviews. IGN just blasted it. Hard.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/785/785643p3.html

That page 3. Scroll down to the bottom for 2 reviews, both saying DO NOT BUY!

O think Ill hold off for a few days at least.

EDIT

Here are two conclusions.

If you're desperate for a Spider-Man game, this one fills your need for webs, but other than nailing what web-swinging should feel like, this game is a bust. We were promised a Spidey experience that was next-gen and expanded on everything Spider-Man 2 did right, but we were given a buggy game that's just Spider-Man 2: Special Edition. Combat is brainless button-mashing, the bosses are frustrating and cheap, the visuals are far from spectacular, and although the random crimes aren't the same events over and over, they definitely reuse the same ideas.

Anyone hoping that Spider-Man 3 the videogame somehow enhances the feature film will be sorely disappointed. The storyline makes little sense in the game, with random clips and unexplained circumstances the norm rather than the exception. After facing some of the seemingly impossible bosses, you may not even want to keep following the story. It never gets easier and it never becomes fun. Aside from swinging around the city, there's little else good that Spider-Man 3 has to offer. So, yeah, don't get it. Take the advice of your friendly neighborhood editor and resist the temptation.

[stray]

Well, it wasn't made by Treyarch (Spidey 2 and Ultimate). I was afraid of this.


Strangely though, I heard the Wii version is the best of the bunch.


But that could just be desperate owners looking for anything on a system without many options at the moment (just a thought). And/or people easily amused by the Wiimote, and not the actual merits of games.

[Velorath]

Well, it wasn't made by Treyarch (Spidey 2 and Ultimate). I was afraid of this.


Strangely though, I heard the Wii version is the best of the bunch.


But that could just be desperate owners looking for anything on a system without many options at the moment (just a thought). And/or people easily amused by the Wiimote, and not the actual merits of games.

If that was the case, PS3 owners would be saying lots of good things about Spider-man 3 also.  More likely it's fact that the Wii version was done by a different team (Vicarious Visions, who typically handle ports to portable systems).

[Riggswolfe]

See, this is why I post here. You guys just saved me $60

[stray]

If that was the case, PS3 owners would be saying lots of good things about Spider-man 3 also.  More likely it's fact that the Wii version was done by a different team (Vicarious Visions, who typically handle ports to portable systems).

This may blow your mind, but just between Resistance, VF5, Motorstorm, HD movies, and the PS2 library, I could be content with the PS3 for another year (which I won't have to do, of course). Take a look at any site with a large number of PS3 owners and you'll find them enjoying the same things.


I don't feel the same about the Wii. It has maybe two compelling titles (one of which is overrated like a motherfucker, and neither of which are replayable), a smaller number of "decent-ish" titles, inferior BC options, and then nothing else.

I'm not trying to hate or anything -- I have the Wii too -- I would like it to be better -- but from what I've observed, many people who only have a Wii give a lot of undeserved praise to titles that would be COMPLETE CRAP on any other system. I mean, I've heard more than a few times where people praised Rayman, Blazing Angels, and the Godfather like they were system sellers. I do not hear anyone say the same about Godfather or Blazing Angels on the PS3. Because they don't have to.

[Morfiend]

Stray, not another console war derail please. 

Anyway, a funny thing, in that review, they said the PS3 version has the worst problem with framerate. Which is odd.

[stray]

Stray, not another console war derail please. 

Anyway, a funny thing, in that review, they said the PS3 version has the worst problem with framerate. Which is odd.

It's not a console war. Why would I start a war about two systems I bought and paid for? Besides that, I tried to make a simple, polite comment about what I thought about the Wii praise. Velorath replied. I replied back.

There was nothing more to it than that.



Bottom line: I'm saying that if a game is crap, then it's crap. There isn't any way around badly designed software, no matter how endearing the hardware is to you. If the opposite was the case, then there'd be no point in reviewing games ever again for all history. You could just praise hardware forever and leave it at that.

But the truth is, games come down to more than just how you move your hands. Namely, level, mission, and enemy design, combat mechanics, etc., etc..

[Morfiend]

But the truth is, games come down to more than just how you move your hands. Namely, level, mission, and enemy design, combat mechanics, etc., etc..

I couldnt agree more.

[Velorath]

If that was the case, PS3 owners would be saying lots of good things about Spider-man 3 also.  More likely it's fact that the Wii version was done by a different team (Vicarious Visions, who typically handle ports to portable systems).

This may blow your mind, but just between Resistance, VF5, Motorstorm, HD movies, and the PS2 library, I could be content with the PS3 for another year (which I won't have to do, of course). Take a look at any site with a large number of PS3 owners and you'll find them enjoying the same things.

And other people like Zelda, Paper Mario, Wario Ware, Wii Sports, and whatever.  Looking at Gamerankings, even review scores (as opposed to possibly biased console owners) don't seem to back up your argument that the PS3's current lineup is any better than the Wii's.  Bringing up your personal preference is one thing, but trying to make a generalization that PS3 owners actually enjoy their games will Wii fans are just deluding themselves just makes you seem biased despite your protests of "hey I own a Wii too so I can make these kind of comments".

Some people like Spider-man 3 for the Wii.  Vicarious Visions might have put more effort into making a good game than Treyarch did.  I don't know, I'm not really going out of my way to play any version of the game right now as I've found most of the Spider-man games to be worth no more than a rental.

Edit:  Also note that IGN gave the Wii version of Spider-man 3 a score that's slightly worse than the PS3, and I've seen user reviews at some sites praising the PS3 and 360 versions.  Most critics seem to agree all the versions of Spider-man 3 suck, and there are some people (who obviously can't have put too many hours into the game yet) who are saying it's the greatest ever.  Self-delusion and odd personal tastes aren't console specific.

[stray]

And other people like Zelda, Paper Mario, Wario Ware, Wii Sports, and whatever.  Looking at Gamerankings, even review scores (as opposed to possibly biased console owners) don't seem to back up your argument that the PS3's current lineup is any better than the Wii's.  Bringing up your personal preference is one thing, but trying to make a generalization that PS3 owners actually enjoy their games will Wii fans are just deluding themselves just makes you seem biased despite your protests of "hey I own a Wii too so I can make these kind of comments".

Point to me where I said TWP, Paper Mario, or Wii Sports shouldn't be liked.

I said what I said because of the kind of praise titles like Blazing Angels and Godfather get -- games that can be judged with or without a Wiimote. They're shovelware crap, and anyone who tells someone to go out and buy them is a disingenuous prick, and trying to make the system more appealing than it is.

Just for that, I'll take anything they say about this Spider-Man game with a grain of salt.


As for the rest, I already said that it had two compelling games -- You don't have to tell me that Twilight Princess and Paper Mario belong in another category (despite me thinking that Zelda does not deserve the extreme scores it gets).

That being the case though, it's still less than what the PS3 has in the "compelling" category, and as I said, neither offer much in the way of replayability. And when you're not occupied in a good, replayable game, you're out seeking for new games. This is where desperation begins, and where people start giving too much praise to games that either suck, do nothing new, or at best, are merely decent.

Some of the titles in this category are shared between both systems. Like Marvel Ultimate Alliance, NFS Carbon, Double Agent, Godfather, Blazing Angels, Call of Duty 3, Tiger Woods, or Madden. Some are titles that the Wii shares with similar PS2 games. Like DBZ: BT2 or Rayman Raving Rabbids.

I hate to get longwinded here, but instead of listing all of those, lets break down the games that are for the most part unique to both systems (not counting the 360), and that aren't broken or don't outright suck.

Wii Sports, Sonic and the Three Rings, Cooking Mama, SSX, Trauma Center, and Excite Truck

vs

Oblivion, F1, FEAR, NBA2K7, NHL2K7, MLB 2K7, NBA Street, Fight Night Round 3, Ridge Racer 7, Virtua Tennis


Care to list more? Either way, I think the PS3 has an advantage in both it's best games, and in it's second tier games. The Wii has things I wish the PS3 had -- Like a good Sonic game, and a good SSX game, but I still think the PS3 wins out. And not only that, every single game on that PS3 list has a lot of replay value, except Oblivion (and even that's debatable, what with DLC).


P.S. Again, it isn't my choice to have a "console war" debate here. I'm just responding to your little challenge. You think PS3 owners are game starved or something, when not only does it have more decent games, but almost every single one of them is replayable to boot. And like I said in my first response to you, I also have a HD movie player and a PS2 library to fall back on.

"hey I own a Wii too so I can make these kind of comments".

Yeah. The only time I mentioned anything close to that is when Morphiend thought I was trying to start a war or something. I then said: Why would I want to a war between two systems I own?

It has fuckall to do with the context you'd like to place it in.

[EDIT] Forgot to mention the PoP game. ;)

Haven't played it, but it looks cool.


Anyways, sorry to everyone for muddying up the thread. I don't apologize for my opinion, but I do apologize for the derail.

[Velorath]

I said what I said because of the kind of praise titles like Blazing Angels and Godfather get -- games that can be judged with or without a Wiimote. They're shovelware crap, and anyone who tells someone to go out and buy them is a disingenuous prick, and trying to make the system more appealing than it is.

And schild liked Genji, and there are even people out there who liked Untold Legends.  Anecdotes are fun.

[schild]

I said what I said because of the kind of praise titles like Blazing Angels and Godfather get -- games that can be judged with or without a Wiimote. They're shovelware crap, and anyone who tells someone to go out and buy them is a disingenuous prick, and trying to make the system more appealing than it is.

And schild liked Genji, and there are even people out there who liked Untold Legends.  Anecdotes are fun.

To be fair. Genji isn't shovelware crap. It's just terribly generic and the combat could have used some heavy tweaking. Mostly, I thought it was beautiful. Ninja Gaiden Sigma - or even Genji 1 - it is not.

[stray]

I said what I said because of the kind of praise titles like Blazing Angels and Godfather get -- games that can be judged with or without a Wiimote. They're shovelware crap, and anyone who tells someone to go out and buy them is a disingenuous prick, and trying to make the system more appealing than it is.

And schild liked Genji, and there are even people out there who liked Untold Legends.  Anecdotes are fun.

It's not an anecdote when I observe those opinions on a "scale larger than just some guy named Schild".

Shall I quote you two dozen Wii opinions on the Godfather. How about three? Maybe four? Give me a number. I'll attempt to do it if you want. How much further shall I fuck up this thread, just so you can amuse yourself and act like Roac?

Alright, this game ROCKS!!  I got this along with Sonic: Secret Rings and Super Paper Mario, and this is my favorite of the 3. Sonic is awesome too, surprisingly, SPM was disappointing to me. Anyway, I'm about 3 hours into this game and it's amazing how much you can do in it....I'm enjoying the hell out of this, and probably because it is my first GTA-style game.

Love it!

This was the first game I picked up with the Wii and it's awesome so far. Graphics are pretty solid and motion controls are excellent. So satisfying to beat someone down with the bat or punch them out.

The reason Godfather went from mediocre->fantastic was the melee controls on the Wii in the first place, and I really hope the Scarface team expands upon that while they're putting a fair bit of effort in the Wii version.

It's about 10 million times better than the 360 version (and not from the extra additions - just from the fact that the motion controls are done really really well

The Godfather on the Wii is probably the most insanely fun game I've played since RE4. I mean, I don't think I've cackled like a mad bastard after garotting some goomba this much since I last let Leon get his face melted off by a Novistador.

This game is sick! Everyone who owns a Wii NEEDS to buy this game... and if you don't have a Wii, get one just for this game (if you can find one)! Okay maybe not just for The Godfather, but I'm sure there are a few other games you'll want too. Anyway, this is the most satisfying and immersive game I've played in a long time, even though the graphics suck (except in cinema scenes). Seriously, if anything can show how motion controls can add to and improve the traditional gaming experience, THIS is that game.

BUY BUY BUY! Go out and get it right now!

I just got it. Holy crap this game is fun as hell!  I stayed up till 6:30 am extorting businesses.

I had the chance to play the game for a few more hours (11, IIRC) and it rocks hard.

Random scene #1: four picciotti waiting outside of a shop; I'm in the car slowly cruising around (IROC: Italian Retard Out Cruising) and notice that the four are all waiving their fists at me and there are no innocent bystanders around. So what do I do? Put in reverse gear and kill them all at once!  I get out of the car and in the shop, grab the shopkeeper by the shirt and he says, "hum, I like the idea of being protected by you". I bet you do! 

Random scene #2: my first war between families. I am frantically trying to reach an FBI agent but dozens of mobsters kill me all the time. In the end, I manage to get to him at the last moment by creating the most devastating traffic trap ever devised and taking a shortcut on foot.

A fav pastime of mine is grabbing a mobster and throwing him in the arms of a group of his friends, possibly from above, and then throwing a molotov onto them. Time to party!

Okay, someone change the name of this thread to "Godfather Wii: It rocks my socks."

PEOPLE MUST KNOW ABOUT THIS! EVERYONE MUST KNOW!

I would just like to say that sneaking up from behind someone and choking them to death is entirely way too satisfying.

That is all

Wow, I just got this game from Gamefly. Wow. I am another convert. I can't see GTA style button controls surviving after this. Wow. Wow. Wow.

I've been playing it for the past week now, and it just so good. This is how I envisioned GTA IV (visuals are decent, but still nowhere near the level of PS3/360). Controls take a little time to get used to, but it is just so fun to play. So many ways to beat a guy up...and you're really making the motions. Anyone else like holding the powerful punch option like you're gonna hit the guy, then ease off, only to do it a second later and actually hit the guy? The game is just so fun.

That's one dozen. My treat. I'll go much further if you want (that was only from one site and one thread).


P.S. Say no. 



 

[NiX]

Please do! You two are making me feel good about not doing fuck all today. At least I can say I didn't get bitchy over a console.

[Velorath]

I said what I said because of the kind of praise titles like Blazing Angels and Godfather get -- games that can be judged with or without a Wiimote. They're shovelware crap, and anyone who tells someone to go out and buy them is a disingenuous prick, and trying to make the system more appealing than it is.

And schild liked Genji, and there are even people out there who liked Untold Legends.  Anecdotes are fun.

It's not an anecdote when I observe those opinions on a "scale larger than just some guy named Schild".

Shall I quote you two dozen Wii opinions on the Godfather. How about three? Maybe four? Give me a number. I'll attempt to do it if you want. How much further shall I fuck up this thread, just so you can amuse yourself and act like Roac?

So acting like Roac is disagreeing with you because you made a stupid generalization that Wii fans generally trick themselves into liking crap games and that this phenomena is more prevalent on the Wii than any other system?  The only mistake I made in replying to this is that if you've already convinced yourself that you can read peoples' minds and discern their motivations for liking something, there's probably nothing I can say here that's going to change your mind.

Edit:  By the by, Godfather for the Wii apparently got fairly positive reviews.  Get me a few dozen quotes from people who like Wing Island or Far Cry Vengeance and you might have something there.

[stray]

So acting like Roac is disagreeing with you because you made a stupid generalization that Wii fans generally trick themselves into liking crap games and that this phenomena is more prevalent on the Wii than any other system?  The only mistake I made in replying to this is that if you've already convinced yourself that you can read peoples' minds and discern their motivations for liking something, there's probably nothing I can say here that's going to change your mind.

OK man, I gotta go in a minute, but lets rehash this for a sec.

I made one very uncontroversial comment about Wii owners being beholden to certain games easily because of the control scheme. I also said that when it came down to the actual games (i.e. the software), they're starving more than everyone else.

You took issue with that, and thought that the PS3 was in just as bad shape. I then did my best to list both systems' standout games for you.

My verdict was that 3 good replayable games in VF5, Motorstorm, and Resistance, plus a good handful of decent replayable titles, HD playback, and a PS2 library > an unreplayable TWP, SPM, and it's smaller share of mini game compiliations, ports, and unreplayable (albeit good) titles, Gamecube BC, and the VC stuff.


Do you disagree with that or what? You never said.

...

The other point was about the unusually high praise for a game like the Godfather... I used that to illustrate that even a game that many Wii owners would say is great never got that kind of praise on other systems. This was also used to tie in my point about what some are saying about Wii Spider-Man 3, and how their opinions should be taken with a grain of salt.

There was nothing more to it than that. That you keep making a big deal about it is why I compared you to Roac. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, it's a pretty simple point. Yet, you treat it like I've dropped a bomb or something.

Why?

Despite what some here may believe, I really dislike these kind of arguments. They're pointless, and I wish I didn't have to be dragged into them (but I have to defend myself somehow). If I can't make comments like the above without someone zealously engaging me about it, then just tell me. Someone warn me now, and I'll keep myself in check next time.

[Velorath]

You made a snarky comment about desperate Wii fans deluding themselves into liking bad games because the selection is so sparse.  I made a snarky comment back about PS3 fans being in the same boat.  You brought up all the good games on the PS3 you get to play, indicating that the selection isn't so sparse that you have to like shitty games.  I brought up a list of good Wii games.  You post... well, a bunch of other stuff.  I make a one line response to your anecdotes of people praising terrible Wii games saying there are people who like low rated PS3 games as well.  You for some reason think that posting a dozen anecdotes of people praising a game that got good reviews proves your point.  I pretty much give up on trying to get through to you.

And now you ask why I'm making the big deal, when each of your responses is about 10 times the length of mine, and when you've gone through the effort to grab a bunch of quotes off a site somewhere from people whose big sin is apparently having the nerve to love the Wii version of Godfather.  I would have been content to just trade snark for snark and let it be done, just to point out that your idea that Wii fans can't be trusted to judge games properly was silly.

[stray]

I didn't make any snarky comments. I made as sincere a comment as I could make about it.

When I said that I'll take some of the Wii opinions of this game with a grain of salt because I've seen how some games have garnered too much undeserved praise because of the control scheme, and also, how I think they're just saying it mainly because the system could use more games than others -- I mean it.

I actually do believe that the quality of a game lies largely in software design. There's nothing snarky about it. If that part is mundane, then it'll be mundane elsewhere. A well designed game is a good game, and a poorly designed game is a bad game. Controls might help a bit, but they will not tip the scale that dramatically. Saying so is just grasping for straws. Leave the praise for games that really deserve it (and nowhere did I say that the Wii didn't have games that deserved praise btw).

And now you ask why I'm making the big deal, when each of your responses is about 10 times the length of mine, and when you've gone through the effort to grab a bunch of quotes off a site somewhere from people whose big sin is apparently having the nerve to love the Wii version of Godfather.  I would have been content to just trade snark for snark and let it be done, just to point out that your idea that Wii fans can't be trusted to judge games properly was silly.

If I make short posts to reply to you, then I'm damned and mischaracterized. So I made the big posts so that you could appreciate that I was taking you completely seriously, and that would leave less room for misunderstanding. Apparently though, I just get crap like your reply above for doing that too. My bad, I guess. Should have known that I'm fucked either way.

As for the quotes, I gave you those just to illustrate that I would have gone out of the way for you because of this. I asked you to name an even larger number --- Just because I'm fucking stupid and crazy enough to meet your unrealistic expecations, and not  interested in letting you characterize me as "generalized" and "biased". Because I'll do anything to live down whatever "fanboism" you may think that I have, and that motivates you to jump on my every little word about consoles at this site. I'd like to do whatever I can to end that once and for all, no matter how ridiculous it may be.

And if there's no way I can do that, then just tell me now. I have no interest in being in an environment where I can't communicate a little dissent without getting some breathing room -- like "normal people" do. I want to express opinions without people reading all kinds of ulterior motives and cock sucking preferences into my posts. I would rather be some insigificant chump who gets ignored completely than have to deal with that shit all the time.

[Ironwood]

Oh for fuck's sake.

You people...

[stray]

Oh for fuck's sake.

You people...

Hmm. Yeah. That used to be my line.

I wish it worked still.

[MisterNoisy]

The only thing anyone should take from this entire conversation is that it's a really good time to own a 360 right now.  :)

Oh, and the Spider Man 3 game sucks.

[Ironwood]

This thread was about Spiderman ?


It's a fucking shame it's not so good.  I actually quite liked 2, as I said.  :(

[sinij]

Do you get Emo minin-game?

[Xanthippe]

My son wanted this.  He hasn't played any of them, I don't think.

So - I'm not buying this one, but should I buy Spiderman 2?

[stray]

Spider-Man 2 is pretty cool, sure. Probably can find it cheap too.

Though it might be better going with Ultimate Spider-Man. It's made by the same guys, and is based on a comic series, starts off on a fresh slate (and isn't based on a movie sequel), and plays roughly the same (though the combat is a bit more simplified).

[Morfiend]

My son wanted this.  He hasn't played any of them, I don't think.

So - I'm not buying this one, but should I buy Spiderman 2?

No.

Buy Ultimate Spider-Man. IMO it is much much better than Spider-Man 2. Shit, I think im going to have to pull out Ultimate Spider-Man and give it another play, if it will play in my 360. I really liked it. I played through 3 times already. Fun fun game.

[Morfiend]

My Mini-Review from 2 years ago.