Reefer Madness? No, really.

[Murgos]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070501/ap_on_he_me/marijuana_mental_health

Maybe that movie was on to something after all.

[Miasma]

Those results are tainted by the fact that only a psycho would sign up to have medical testing done on them in the first place.

[FatuousTwat]

I can attest to the paranoid delusions and hallucinations, but it only happened to me once out of maybe 50 times, and I quit soon after it happened.

On the other hand, I don't believe it affected me permanently, as they seem to trying to say in the article, and I would suggest it over alcohol any day of the week.

Edit: Oh man, only 15 people were tested? What bullshit.

[Damn Dirty Ape]

*15* whole people were tested?  How titanic!

Psychotic symptoms:  Dude!  I think Roger Waters is trying to tell me something during "Comfortably Numb"!

[Sky]

Pot enhances paranoia? ORLY.

Hallucinations? No. I've smoked massive pounds of it in my time and never seen anything hallucinatory. I know hallucination, I've also taken a lot of LSD, mescaline and psilocybin. /That/ is hallucinating, and even a lot of that is visual/cortex trickery. Like breathing walls or moving tree branches, your eyes are so dilated that minute movements are overlapping, giving the impression of movement. We used to study that stuff and it kinda takes the fun out of it after a while. I can count on two hands the actual 'holy shit' hallucinations I've seen (and they were great! :P).

Anyway. Yeah, schizos will have enhanced paranoia and that's a bad thing. But for normal folks, education is key. Know that you're more paranoid than normal and you can compensate.This study will no doubt be jumped on by the drug czars to keep marijuana illegal longer, because it will of course turn your children into psychotics, unlike your lack of attention or medicating their problems away.

[Yegolev]

If pot can make you hallucinate, I think I have been smoking something else.

I am very paranoid when sober.  Gets worse when stoned, which is probably why I don't smoke anymore.  Makes me CRAZY.

[Damn Dirty Ape]

Makes me CRAZY.

Made you vote liberal, didn't it?

[Yegolev]

Made you vote liberal, didn't it?

Never!  They are out to get us!

[Murgos]

I knew a guy in college who made some pot brownies.  He had bought 8 lbs of pot, it came in garbage bags, and striped all the stems and crap out of it.  He boiled those stems in cooking oil and then used the oil to make the brownies.

People complained of hallucinations.

Interesting aside, this guy is now president of a small company.

[HaemishM]

*15* whole people were tested?  How titanic!

15 people is barely a good-sized football club, much less enough of a sample size for any kind of credible medical study. Maybe the researchers were sampling their own wares and just couldn't be arsed to get more volunteers.

[Damn Dirty Ape]

Interesting aside, this guy is now president of a small company.

Ah, George W. Bush.  I thought there was a common thread here.

[Sky]

I knew a guy in college who made some pot brownies.  He had bought 8 lbs of pot, it came in garbage bags, and striped all the stems and crap out of it.  He boiled those stems in cooking oil and then used the oil to make the brownies.

People complained of hallucinations.

Interesting aside, this guy is now president of a small company.

Firstly, depending on when you went to college, that's upwards of $8k in weed. Coming in garbage bags, he probably knew a grower so maybe less depending on how good a friend. Nonetheless...a good friend to have around, eh? You can learn a lot of solid business skills, no suprise he's in the business world, really.

Secondly, there is almost no THC in stems, seeds or leaves, though oil is a good mechanism to bind to. People who complained of hallucinations from watered-down (oiled-down?) stems are delusional.

[Murgos]

Not going to argue with you about it Sky, people complained about having minor hallucinations.  Not 'special' people, or light-weight pussies just normal college people (i.e. not entirely inexperienced).

[Nebu]

Psychoactive substances always have some chance to evoke a psychological response in people that are predisposed to abnormal psychological disturbances. The findings in this article are things that have been known in neuroscience for decades.  Targeting something as benign as marijuana is probably part of some political agenda.

[Furiously]

Hmmm... We'll lets see what the DEA says...

Prices of marijuana show wide variation by country of origin. Using wholesale prices per pound and mid-1991 prices, the price of marijuana of Mexican origin varied between $350 and $1600. For Colombian marijuana, this figure was $800 to $1,000 and for marijuana from Thailand, the price ranged from $2,000 to $3,000 per pound. Jamaican marijuana brought $1,500 to $2,000 per pound for commercial grade and $2,000-$3,000 for sinsemilla (BJS, 1992, p. 54). It is estimated that United States consumers of marijuana spent $9 billion in 1990 (BJS, 1992, p. 36).

The price of marijuana has been increasing on both a per pound and per ounce basis. During the early 1980s, a pound of commercial grade marijuana sold in the United States for between $350 and $600. Sinsemilla brought a higher price per pound, in the range of $1,000 to $2,000. In 1989 the price of a pound of commercial grade marijuana was between $350 and $2,000. An ounce of the same quality cost between $30 and $250. For sinsemilla, a pound cost between $700 and $3,000 and an ounce sold for between $100 and $300. A pound of commercial grade marijuana, in 1990, sold for between $250 and $3,000 and an ounce sold for between $25 and $300. For sinsemilla, the price ranges were $400 to $4100 for a pound and $80 to $350 for an ounce. The year 1991 saw commercial grade marijuana being sold for between $400 and $3,000 per pound and for between $40 and $550 per ounce. A pound of sinsemilla brought a price range of between $500 and $6,000 and an ounce brought a range of between $100 and $450. In the year 1992, a pound of commercial grade marijuana sold for between $300 and $3,000. An ounce of commercial grade brought between $40 and $450. The sinsemilla, in 1992, brought between $650 and $9,600 per pound and between $125 and $650 per ounce (BJS, 1992, p. 62). Figures on marijuana prices collected by the Community Epidemiology Work Group in June 1994 show essentially the same price structure (NIDA, 1994, p. 48). The range for a pound of sinsemilla in June, 1994 was between $650 and $9,000. For commercial grade marijuana, the range per pound was between $350 and $3,000.

According to a user survey conducted by Chalsma and Boyum (1994) for the ONDCP, the average price of marijuana in the United States was $55 for a quarter ounce. This amounts to about 8 dollars per gram which is very similar to the price charged for marijuana in Dutch coffeeshops.

To state the obvious, the cited prices demonstrate dramatic upsurge and offer tremendous potential for profit to the cultivator/trafficker of marijuana. Using indoor, high grade sinsemilla as an example, the DEA calculates the typical domestic marijuana grower to have approximately 250 plants per growing cycle. Using an estimate (which DEA purports as conservative) of one pound per plant and an average price of $3,000 per pound, the revenue generated would be of the magnitude of $750,000 per quarter (DEA, no date, p. 36).

My guess would be if people were hallucinating he threw some lsd in to be "funny".

[Nebu]

Using an estimate (which DEA purports as conservative) of one pound per plant and an average price of $3,000 per pound, the revenue generated would be of the magnitude of $750,000 per quarter (DEA, no date, p. 36).

Amazing how much tax revenue the government is willing to give up in order to win an election.  The tobacco lobby is to blame for marijuana being illegal and that costs us all. 

[Big Gulp]

I'd just like to point out that the term is "reefer", not "refer", unless referring is now considered an act of madness.

[Damn Dirty Ape]

Define "minor hallucinations", por favor.

[stray]

Hmm... They must be pricing pounds of weed according to the street prices of a quarter bags or something. And then scaling it from there. But that's not how it would work if you were to actually go out and buy a pound. I could get a pound of Mexican weed for about $400. Kine bud would be about $1200.

[Damn Dirty Ape]

Maybe the researchers were sampling their own wares and just couldn't be arsed to get more volunteers.

Naw, they just tested these guys:

[Murgos]

Define "minor hallucinations", por favor.

Very slight blurring and shifting.  Like if you focus it goes away.

[Samwise]

Define "minor hallucinations", por favor.

Very slight blurring and shifting.  Like if you focus it goes away.

It turns out beer is a hallucinogen too.

[Ironwood]

And, it turns out, tiredness.

Seriously, somewhere I hear the sound of barrels being scraped with this 'research'.

Sigh.

[Murgos]

Define "minor hallucinations", por favor.

Very slight blurring and shifting.  Like if you focus it goes away.

It turns out beer is a hallucinogen too.

Yeah, alcohol poisoning causes hallucinations too.

edit: also, Ironwood, sleep deprivation does cause hallucinations.  There's only about 25 jillion studies showing it.

Why are you guys such turds about this?  Am I stepping on your dicks?  Making you feel all defensive because in my experience an extremely strong marijuana high caused some people some slight hallucinations and you just don't anyone actually pointing out to you that fucking with your brains receptors is probably not really a good thing?

Pot, the wonder drug!!!  Or maybe it's just a drug?

[Trippy]

edit: also, Ironwood, sleep deprivation does cause hallucinations.  There's only about 25 jillion studies showing it.

Indeed. Once in my youth I went over 72 hours without sleep and when driving around trees and bushes looked like animals and stuff. It was fascinating since I was still awake enough to recognize what was going on but even though I knew that my mind wouldn't stop making stuff up.

[Roac]

Indeed. Once in my youth I went over 72 hours without sleep and when driving around trees and bushes looked like animals and stuff. It was fascinating since I was still awake enough to recognize what was going on but even though I knew that my mind wouldn't stop making stuff up.

I never made it that far.  Somewhere past a full day (26-28 or so) stuff in my room began moving around on its own, which I took as a sign that a nap was in order.  Never had that happen as a result of alcohol.  Alcohol just lets me come up with very creative ways to amuse myself until getting sick.

[Endie]

I've smoked plenty of gear in my time, and used to have huge arguments with my sister (who works observation for the drugs squad in the local police) about marijuana.  I always claimed it was harmless or even positive, while she saw the bad side.  She'd say "gateway drug" and I'd say "100% of smacheads say they have drunk water.  Gateway!"  And so on.

But it's meant that I'm much more likely to spot and read articles on mj and meantal health issues, in a desperate search for evidence to cite.  For several years I've been watching the trickle of relevant studies and it's certainly been enough for me to stop smoking the stuff.

It does seem that the most vulnerable are teenagers and very heavy users, sure.  And anyone who'd been to the Dam and smoked a shitload of Thai reefers over the course of several hours knows that there are hallucinatory (though not necessarily visual) side-effects associated with acute heavy use.  But everyone knows the effects on memory, particularly short-term.  It affects your brain.  In ways we know about for sure, and maybe in others.  Maybe long-term, maybe not.  My brain matters a shitload to me, so I stopped.  That seemed to make me hella faster-thinking, especially in rugby, and got rid of the lethargy that afflicted my mid-20s.  Of course, that study comes with the warning: "Sample size 1 - statistically insignificant".

[Triforcer]

Why are you guys such turds about this?  Am I stepping on your dicks?  Making you feel all defensive because in my experience an extremely strong marijuana high caused some people some slight hallucinations and you just don't anyone actually pointing out to you that fucking with your brains receptors is probably not really a good thing?

Pot, the wonder drug!!!  Or maybe it's just a drug?

Indeed.  I'm not arguing that the most raving lunatic warnings of the Government or movies like Reefer Madness are correct, but it is amusing to see pot supporters making the claim that Pot is the ONE substance on earth with absolute no downsides.  It whitens teeth, cures cancer, resurrects your dead childhood pet, and anyone who says otherwise is in the pocket of the producers of non-magical* drugs!

*Everything else.

[Ironwood]

edit: also, Ironwood, sleep deprivation does cause hallucinations.  There's only about 25 jillion studies showing it.

Er, yeah.  I know.  That being, you know, my point and all.

[FatuousTwat]

It whitens teeth, cures cancer, resurrects your dead childhood pet, and anyone who says otherwise is in the pocket of the producers of non-magical* drugs!

*Everything else.

Haven't you ever seen Pet Cemetery? I don't think that's a good thing :P

[Ironwood]

The only thing that stars Herman Munster that's actually scary.

Oh, and Denise Crosby.

[Samwise]

Actually, know what's given me worse "hallucinations" than any of alcohol, pot, or sleep deprivation?  Guitar Hero.  Spend a few hours staring intently at vertically moving objects, then look away.  Surprise, the floor is melting!

[Roac]

Haven't you ever seen Pet Cemetery? I don't think that's a good thing :P

Evil zombie pets are still better than living pets that mess the carpet.

[Damn Dirty Ape]

Sometimes dead is bettuh.

Well, I'm convinced:  We need a War On Alcohol, Sleep Deprivation, And Guitar Hero ASAP!  Fair's fair.

[Triforcer]

Sometimes dead is bettuh.

Well, I'm convinced:  We need a War On Alcohol, Sleep Deprivation, And Guitar Hero ASAP!  Fair's fair.

As a serious takeoff on this, the argument of "Alcohol and tobacco are just as bad (or worse) than pot, therefore we should allow pot" isn't necessarily internally consistent.  You have to take into account social entrenchment.  The costs of banning alcohol or tobacco NOW may be too high, even if we should have banned them from the beginning.  Similarly, the cost of allowing pot NOW may be too high, even if in the first instance we should have allowed it. 

A simpler way to put it:  Saying pot is "just as bad" as alcohol or tobacco may mean we screwed up on allowing alcohol and tobacco.  But why does that mistake mean we have to throw up our hands now and open the floodgates to all bad things?