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Morat20
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on: April 28, 2007, 11:43:10 PM

Okay, I'm playing with the leagues -- I've tried a straight up 9e "five booster + 1 per week" and managed a solid middle, mainly by playing all 5 matches each week. I rarely managed two wins.

I'm doing some sealed deck + two something booster thing now, and I'm having the same results.

Part of the problem is just rememebering the rules and trying to use the interface -- I just worked out this week how to untap a land I accidentally tapped. I didn't know you could up until this week.

Second problem is desk design -- I realize with the leagues I'm in that is going to be a problem, but the total ass-raping I habitually recieve indicates I don't have something right.

I've been trying for two-color decks that have decent synergy -- with the current one, I've got a white/green duo that should do well -- I just can't quite seem to finish them off, getting them down to 5 or 6 in general. Possibly because I don't have quite enough low-cost creatures for a true weenie, but always seem to have poor luck with mana. Too much, too little, too much of one color, etc. I'm running a 40% mana deck, balanced between lands on color but it's still a problem.

I notice a lot of three-color decks -- that's something I always avoided when I played 60 card decks, but maybe things are different in the 40-card leagues. Is three color viable? What sort of mana distribution are we talking?

At least some of the problem is that my deck design views -- in my head -- are still based on my old limited decks and the breadth of possibilties there. Frankly, I miss my old black weenie/denial deck. :) It was fun to both weenie someone and keep forcing them to discard. The few times they managed to wall off the massive weenie assault, I just ran them out of deck. Cheap -- but fun. Protection from black kicked my ass, though.

Anyways -- trying out this new time-spiral stuff, trying to figure out suspends and having to check Wikipedia every five freakin' minutes to figure out what madness, storm, echo and all that does is a problem to boot.

I'm thinking I'm just not seeing synergies that should be obvious to someone else, because I'm still not familiar with the cards. Any tips? Thoughts?
Margalis
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Reply #1 on: April 30, 2007, 02:20:04 AM

Getting used to the interface and how the rules technically work takes a while. When I first started playing I messed up a lot, did silly things like waited until after a creature was dead to regenerate it, etc.

2 colors with a splash is pretty standard in limited. The splash is typically for a couple of cards that are powerful and can be cast later in the game when you are more likely to have the mana available. Blaze is a good example of this in 9th - powerful card and you naturally want to cast it later giving you plenty of time to cobble up the red mana.

I suggest playing more than 5 games per week. Playing sealed is a cost-effective way to get up to speed on rules and get some practice while having fun. Play your 5 games then play some more - why not? Pay attention to what your opponent does, what synergies they use, etc.

I suggest reading the old "Limited Information" articles on wizards.com, the ones done by Scott Willis. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/columnarchive&column=LimitedInformation)

Maybe you could post some of your decks as well as your card pools?

Creating decks and playing properly are both important skills. I can't say much about play issues without watching but if you post your decks I can go over them. I'm more familiar with Time Spiral than 9th myself.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Morat20
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Reply #2 on: April 30, 2007, 09:31:38 AM

Allright -- when I get home I'll run a post of my cards, and the white/green deck and maybe the tri-color one that I'm trying to get to work. Although, I must admit to great love of the card "Ignite Memories". I managed to play that after dropping two one-mana instants, and obliterated someone. It's cheap shit, but it was fun as hell. :)

You're right about the interface -- I just yesterday worked out what it truly means that interrupts are gone, and I was a bit stunned to watch someone block with a creature THEN use it's tapped ability. I didn't know you could do that -- there's a lot I didn't know.

I do appreciate the help. I enjoy the game, but the constant ass-raping is getting wearisome. :)
Raging Turtle
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Reply #3 on: April 30, 2007, 09:35:26 AM

Please seperate your cards by color when you do post them - makes it a lot easier to help.  smiley

A league or some sealed deck tourney's with the full time spiral set sounds pretty fun. Hmmm.
Morat20
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Reply #4 on: April 30, 2007, 09:50:22 AM

Please seperate your cards by color when you do post them - makes it a lot easier to help.  smiley

A league or some sealed deck tourney's with the full time spiral set sounds pretty fun. Hmmm.
It wasn't -- it's something like a starter deck of some sort + two specific boosters. PLC? PLS? Something like that. I'll run the cards out by color, then describe the decks I designed and the strategies I was looking for. Also, I know that damn Sengir Vampire is useful for something other than a flying 4/4, but I think my clumsy understanding of the stack mechanics is blinding me to it's awesomeness.

Oh, and I freaking HATE stuffy dolls. I finally worked out one way of ending it's existance -- a -1/-1 counter still sends it's indestructable ass to the graveyard.
Margalis
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Reply #5 on: April 30, 2007, 03:35:35 PM

Stack tricks take a while to get the hang of. In the case of the Vamp you can block with it, replace it with a token, then swap it back in so that it does not have summoning sickness on your turn. I'll post a detailed explanation of how that works later tonight.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Morat20
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Reply #6 on: May 01, 2007, 09:52:25 AM

Stack tricks take a while to get the hang of. In the case of the Vamp you can block with it, replace it with a token, then swap it back in so that it does not have summoning sickness on your turn. I'll post a detailed explanation of how that works later tonight.
I ended up a bit too busy too post last night -- short version: Final today, real paper (as in 'intended to be submitted' paper, not 'for class' paper) due in the next week, and a huge project due a week from today. And then there's my actual job, where they expect me to work too.

I have found that the Greatcloak Cavalier is pretty fun. :)
Morat20
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Reply #7 on: May 02, 2007, 04:17:58 PM

Here's my draw for the league:
Artifacts/Lands
1,Calciform Pools
1,Jhoira's Timebug
1,Prismatic Lens
1,Tormod's Crypt


White:
1,Amrou Seekers
1,Celestial Crusader
1,D'Avenant Healer
1,Dawn Charm
1,Divine Congregation
1,Gustcloak Cavalier
1,Icatian Crier
1,Ivory Giant
1,Momentary Blink
1,Mycologist
1,Pallid Mycoderm
1,Poultice Sliver
1,Saltblast
1,Saltfield Recluse
1,Sidewinder Sliver
1,Sunlance

Green:
1,Citanul Woodreaders
1,Essence Warden
1,Fungal Behemoth
1,Giant Dustwasp
1,Glass Asp
1,Greenseeker
1,Herd Gnarr
1,Might Sliver
1,Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
1,Primal Forcemage
1,Search for Tomorrow
1,Uktabi Drake
1,Vitaspore Thallid

Red:
1,Bonesplitter Sliver
1,Dead/Gone
1,Empty the Warrens
1,Fiery Temper
1,Firefright Mage
1,Flowstone Channeler
1,Fury Charm
1,Ghitu Firebreathing
1,Ground Rift
1,Ignite Memories
1,Needlepeak Spider
1,Reckless Wurm
1,Shivan Meteor
1,Sudden Shock
1,Sulfurous Blast
1,Word of Seizing

Blue:
1,Cancel
1,Coral Trickster
1,Dreamscape Artist
1,Errant Ephemeron
1,Eternity Snare
1,Gossamer Phantasm
1,Piracy Charm
1,Primal Plasma
1,Sage of Epityr
1,Spell Burst
1,Tidewalker
1,Voidmage Prodigy
1,Wistful Thinking

Black:
1,Brain Gorgers
1,Corpulent Corpse
1,Deathspore Thallid
1,Demonic Collusion
1,Imp's Mischief
1,Muck Drubb
1,Pit Keeper
1,Rathi Trapper
1,Ridged Kusite
1,Sengir Nosferatu
1,Skittering Monstrosity
1,Skulking Knight

Any suggestions?
Margalis
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Reply #8 on: May 02, 2007, 10:39:38 PM

Cards in each color that I would be fairly happy to play:


White:
1,Amrou Seekers
1,Celestial Crusader
1,Icatian Crier
1,Ivory Giant
1,Momentary Blink
1,Saltblast
1,Saltfield Recluse
1,Sunlance


Green:
1,Citanul Woodreaders
1,Fungal Behemoth
1,Giant Dustwasp
1,Herd Gnarr
1,Might Sliver
1,Search for Tomorrow

Red:
1,Bonesplitter Sliver
1,Dead/Gone
1,Empty the Warrens
1,Fiery Temper
1,Flowstone Channeler
1,Needlepeak Spider
1,Reckless Wurm
1,Shivan Meteor
1,Sudden Shock
1,Sulfurous Blast
1,Word of Seizing


Blue:
1,Cancel
1,Coral Trickster
1,Dreamscape Artist
1,Errant Ephemeron


Black:
1,Corpulent Corpse
1,Deathspore Thallid
1,Pit Keeper
1,Rathi Trapper
1,Sengir Nosferatu
(I left out Imp's mischief because I forgot what it does)


Blue is often a thin color in sealed play. Your blue is not deep at all.

Your white is not bad and has some fairly playable guys I left out.

Red is deep and has a lot of removal including Sulfurous Blast which can be pretty sick.

Green is also not bad and is somewhat deep, I left off some playables.

Black is not deep at all, although it does have Sengir which is a bomb.

I'm including red for sure. Looking at red one problem we have is almost no early drops at all, and few creatures in general. I don't think you can make a two color deck here, there are not enough quality creatures in two colors.

So I'm looking at red/green/white. You have a Lens and green also gives you a search for tomorrow.

Something like:


Creatures:
1,Bonesplitter Sliver
1,Empty the Warrens
1,Flowstone Channeler
1,Needlepeak Spider
1,Reckless Wurm
1,Amrou Seekers
1,Icatian Crier
1,Poultice Sliver
1,Sidewinder Sliver
1,Citanul Woodreaders
1,Giant Dustwasp
1,Greenseeker
1,Herd Gnarr
1,Might Sliver
1,Saltfield Recluse


Spells:
1,Dead/Gone
1,Fiery Temper
1,Shivan Meteor
1,Sudden Shock
1,Sulfurous Blast
1,Word of Seizing
1,Sunlance
1,Saltblast
1,Search for Tomorrow


Other:
1,Prismatic Lens


The problem now is that getting the mana to work out is going to be very tough. I want to move either towards RWg or RGw, right now I am split into thirds.

+1 Primal Forcemage. (Works well with Icatian Crier)
-1 Sidewinder Sliver (want to de-emphasize white)
-1 Saltblast (WW in cost may be too much)
+1 Fungal Behemoth (another creature would be nice, a suspend creature works well with Primal Forcemage and +1/+1 counters can help us survive a sulruous blast)

I would have to lay this out by mana cost to figure out if it made much sense, but I think this is pretty close to an ok build. Uktabi Drake might be a good fit as it works well with Primal Forcemage as well, maybe put in the Drake and take out Amrou Seekers.

Let me do that and lay things out based on the turn I want to play them.

1,Search for Tomorrow
1,Greenseeker

1,Giant Dustwasp
1,Prismatic Lens

1,Saltfield Recluse
1,Citanul Woodreaders
1,Flowstone Channeler
1,Icatian Crier
1,Poultice Sliver
1,Uktabi Drake
1,Primal Forcemage

1,Bonesplitter Sliver
1,Needlepeak Spider
1,Herd Gnarr

1,Reckless Wurm
1,Fungal Behemoth
1,Empty the Warrens
1,Might Sliver


Not too bad. The early turns are a little sparse but that is what your removal is for. It is a little hard to do this without having the MTGO UI in front of me so I can drag things around but this is probably pretty close to what I'd turn in.

It isn't great by any means. It has very few bombs and legitimate win conditions. However in the long game you have woodreaders drawing you some cards, behemoth putting +1/+1 counters on your guys, regenerating slivers with high attack power, Herd Gnarr being pumped up by Ication Crier and Saltfield Recluse dominating combat math.

A couple of other changes to consider:

Essence Warden is another early drop and works well with Icatian Crier. You may be able to drop something like Greenseeker for Warden instead. You have some other madness outlets and I think the mana here should be ok.

For some of this I forgot about Saltfield Recluse so my spells/land ratio is a bit off and I don't feel like correcting it. Basically in white I am interested in these cards:

Sunland
Saltfield Recluse
Icatian Crier

The first two are just plain great cards, the last looks good in a deck with Herd Gnarr, Essence Warden and Primal Forcemage. Poultice Sliver is ok but I don't want too much early white since white will be my splash color, so I might drop it.

If you want to know why I didn't consider certain cards feel free to ask.


vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Morat20
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Reply #9 on: May 03, 2007, 10:38:14 AM

That looks like a much better white/green/red deck than I was toying with. Much slimmer and more focused. I can see leaving out Ignite Memories -- it's fun to play when you can drop a couple of one-mana cards, but that's really a rare situation (admittedly, it's fun to drop that when Storm gives you three copies and the guy's holding a hand full of high-value cards -- but that's cheap and rare. Not enough bang for the buck).

I had a lot more saproling producers in my white/green/red -- Mycologist and another one -- but frankly they tended to get nuked early.

I think I can see how that design should work -- I think I get a new booster tonight, but I'll assemble that deck and see what I can do with it. If nothing else, I can tell which new cards should fit.

Thanks. I'll see how it goes.
Margalis
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Reply #10 on: May 03, 2007, 01:34:04 PM

There are really only two good Thallids: Deathspore and Sporesower Thallid.

4/4 for 4 is just plain good, and the saproling stuff is a bonus. Deathspore has the best ability. The others are generally not cost effective and saproling production is just too slow overall. Thallid Germinator (2/2 for 3) is playable but nothing special.

Ignite Memories is ok but the problem is you don't have enough suspend cards or cheap spells to make it work that well. It is also one of those cards that does not affect board position at all, which is a problem. Most games, especially league games, are won or lost based on who develops the dominant board position. Cards that don't affect the board are generally not that good.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Morat20
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Reply #11 on: May 03, 2007, 06:27:49 PM

Hmm. This came out of my new booster pack:

Artifiacts, Land
1, Saltcrusted Steppe
1, Lotus Bloom
1, Jhoria's Timebug
1, Dreadship Reef

Black
1, Mindslash Sliver
1, Dark Withering

Blue
1, Viscerid Deepwalker
1, Sage of Epityr

Red
1, Ironclaw Buzzardiers
1, Basalt Gargoyle

Green
1, Search for Tomorrow
1, Thallid Shell-Dweller

White
1, Divine Congregation
1, Soltari Priest
1, Icatian Crier


Oddly, both my new green cards just disappeared. They're not in my deck choices. Odd, that. Probably show back up on reboot.
Morat20
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Reply #12 on: May 03, 2007, 06:29:45 PM

What do you mean by "splash color" by the way?
Margalis
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Reply #13 on: May 03, 2007, 08:15:53 PM

A splash color is a color you only include a couple of cards from.

Typically these cards are cards that are powerful, have a single colored component in their mana cost, and can be cast later in the game when you are more likely to have the correct color available.

In your RGw deck, say you are playing 18 lands. You don't want to play 6/6/6, you probably want something like 8/7/3. If you only have 3 plains in your deck you probably won't start with one in hand, which means early drops that require plains are not owrth that much because you often won't be able to cast them until later.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Johny Cee
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Reply #14 on: May 03, 2007, 10:25:10 PM

Not a bad booster for the colors you're already in.

Basalt Gargoyle is a house.  Buzzardiers is playable.  Search for tomorrow helps thin your deck and fetch out that splash color,  as well as accelerate your mana.
Margalis
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Reply #15 on: May 03, 2007, 11:11:07 PM

Yeah, some more evasive threats is always a nice thing. Another suspend card also works well with Warrens.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Morat20
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Reply #16 on: May 04, 2007, 11:06:23 AM

The Solari Priest looks interesting -- decent cost 2/1 with shadow. I put in Lotus Bloom, added in the Priest and the other Search for Tomorrow. Have to figure out which cards to cut to get it back down to 40 to 42. I was thinking of putting in the other Crier. I was iffy on the Gargoyle.

However, I did manage to win a match yesterday (only had a chance to play one) which is a significant improvement. Something of a shutout, so I'm not sure how good the other opponent was.

I noticed he/she nuked the Crier, the Herd Gnarr, and whatever that card is that makes new creatures +3/+3 the turn they're summoned. Fun match the last time. I had out the Might Sliver, and the Sidewinder Sliver and "Word of Seizing" in my hand (and a few other cards). He/She had out two creatures (which attacked) and dropped a 2/2 Sliver at the end of his turn. I seized the Sliver, and obliterated him.

I think both games we managed to reset the creature field entirely at least once.

So I was thinking:

White:
2, Icatian Criers.
1, Soltari Priest.
1, Amrou Seekers
1, Poultice Sliver
1, Sunlance

Green:
2, Search for Tomorrow
1,Fungal Behemoth
1,Giant Dustwasp
1,Herd Gnarr
1,Might Sliver
1, Primal Forcemage

Red:
1,Bonesplitter Sliver
1,Dead/Gone
1,Empty the Warrens
1,Fiery Temper
1,Flowstone Channeler
1,Needlepeak Spider
1,Reckless Wurm
1,Sudden Shock
1,Sulfurous Blast
1,Word of Seizing

Lands, Artifacts:
Lotus Bloom
Prismatic Lens

So 23 cards, 17 lands. About 50% red. So probably 8 Mountains, 4 plains, 5 forests. Or maybe 7/5/6 instead.
Margalis
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Reply #17 on: May 04, 2007, 04:30:00 PM

The problem with Lotus Bloom is that it is a mana accelerator and you don't have much to accelerate into. You don't have many expensive cards that require that extra 3 mana.

In a well-crafted constructed deck one-time acceleration can be very valuable, but most limited decks are not tuned enough to take advantage of it. It can help you cast a big Warrens but that is about it.

The problem with Soltari Priest is that it costs WW. Let's take a look at your ideal play scenario:

Turn 1: Forest, Search for Tommorow
Turn 2: Huh, Soltari Priest

To cast Priest you need WW. If you are playing 4 or 5 plains the chance of having that in the early game is low, and the early game is when you want to play Soltari Priest. In addition even if you start with 2 plains in hand it means you can't cast Search For Tomorrow on turn 1, which is ideally when you would play that.

Saltblast is not a bad card because it costs 3WW. By the time you have 5 mana you have a pretty good chance of having WW, and you have enough other removal that you aren't counting on Saltblast early. By comparison Soltari Priest costs WW, ideally you want to play it on turn 2 but the chance of doing that is low and it messes up your start.



vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Morat20
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Reply #18 on: May 04, 2007, 06:08:20 PM

Ah, I see your point. Hmm. I'll have to tweak my deck a little more, but I actually might win more than one match this week. I've been spoiled by "the old days" when the game was a bit different, and I had a lot more card variety.

I hate leaving the Priest out -- shadow creatures are annoying, but you're right about the mana issues.
Johny Cee
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Reply #19 on: May 04, 2007, 06:21:19 PM

A tricky thing to key onto is the difference in playability between cards with a single or multiple color requirements.

Benalish Cavalier is a 2/2 for 2, with flanking.  The 2 casting cost is only one W though,  which means he has a much better shot at seeing play early (when he's effective).

Playing a 2 or 3 color deck with the majority of spells having only 1 specific color required mana will flow alot better.  With multiple color cost,  you'll find yourself getting stuck unable to play cards.

The other factor with the Priest is his 1 toughness.  This makes him fragile,  even with his Protection ability.  There are dozens of ways to kill a 1 tough creature,  and it scales down from there as the toughness increases.  4 and higher tough creatures generally only get killed by a few spells (mostly black destory effects),  or gangblocking.

A 1 tough creature will die to pingers, or misery charm,  or a weenie block, etc.

Ironclaw Buzzardiers appears,  at first glance, to be kind of shitty.  3 casting cost for a 2/2, a drawback, and you have to pay for some minimal evasion??  When you factor in that R doesn't have much evasion,  people don't like to trade their smallish W or U fliers for a Buzzardier, etc.  he starts to look better.

Margalis has actually watched a couple of my league games where Buzzardier pretty much went the distince against opponents who had to keep creatures untapped because of my beefier non-evaders.


On mulliganing:  Generally,  if you're unsure about a hand, throw it back.  Even if you have 3 land,  throw it back if you have all 1 color mana sources and a different color spells.  Tempo (being able to do effective things at the right point in the game) is greater than starting the game down a card or two.

Mulliganing is the toughest part of the game to pick up, I think.
Morat20
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Reply #20 on: May 04, 2007, 09:16:23 PM

Ugh. So annoyed! I went 2-0, 1-2, and then was down the first game to a guy. The guy had to leave in the second game (he conceded, giving me the match) but what was annoying was the situation.

I had out two 4/4s, the Herd Gnarr and the Icatian crier. I had this trampling wurm 4/4 thing with a madness cost in my hand.

Now, here's the question (I was about to find out). Madness lets you pay the cheaper cost when you discard a card, right?

So if I used Icatian Crier and discard the Wurm, I'd get two 1/1 white creatures -- pumping the Herd Gnarr up to 6/6. Then I could pay the madness cost of the Wurm and get another 4/4 out there and push the Gnarr to 8/8. Does that work?

So I was about to play -- I hoped -- Two 4/4 attackers and an 8/8. 16 points of damage.  . *sigh*. It would have been nice to win that one outright. First time I got such a good setup.
Johny Cee
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Reply #21 on: May 04, 2007, 09:58:22 PM

Ugh. So annoyed! I went 2-0, 1-2, and then was down the first game to a guy. The guy had to leave in the second game (he conceded, giving me the match) but what was annoying was the situation.

I had out two 4/4s, the Herd Gnarr and the Icatian crier. I had this trampling wurm 4/4 thing with a madness cost in my hand.

Now, here's the question (I was about to find out). Madness lets you pay the cheaper cost when you discard a card, right?

So if I used Icatian Crier and discard the Wurm, I'd get two 1/1 white creatures -- pumping the Herd Gnarr up to 6/6. Then I could pay the madness cost of the Wurm and get another 4/4 out there and push the Gnarr to 8/8. Does that work?

So I was about to play -- I hoped -- Two 4/4 attackers and an 8/8. 16 points of damage.  . *sigh*. It would have been nice to win that one outright. First time I got such a good setup.


Yah, it'll ask you if you want to discard or discard using madness.

What's your screen name?  I'll add you to my buddies list and, if we're on at the same time,  I could use a couple of my saved league decks to play you in a few open games.
Morat20
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Reply #22 on: May 04, 2007, 10:14:08 PM

Morat20. :) I'm inventive that way. I'm doing better -- I think I won two matches (as opposed to none) and I won at least one game in every match but one. (I lost against the guy ranked 20th for the league, out of a full 256. I figure a shut out against him wasn't too bad).

I had a few bad hands -- just a big handful of nada without any good draws. I had one game where I killed a guy with 4 1/1 goblins and 2 1/1 Citizens. I didn't have any other creatures in my hand -- just a bunch of direct damage. I killed a 1/1 creature he played with a Shivan Meteor, and another with a Sunlance. (Couldn't target him, after all, with those).

I keep forgetting I have a land that takes tokens and pays out whites and greens -- I sat on green cards for a few turns before I remembered I could have just stuck a token or two in that land instead of twiddling my thumbs.
Margalis
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Reply #23 on: May 05, 2007, 09:29:11 PM

When you choose to discard, you can choose (with right click I think):

"Discard"
"Discard using madness"

After the action you were performing, you can then play the card you discard using madness. So in your case yes, you use the Crier, it makes 2 1/1s and your Gnarr gets +4/+4. If you discared the Wurm with madness you can then immediately cast it and your Gnarr gets another +2/+2.

Also note that you can do this at any time, not just your main phase. For example you attack with the Herd Gnarr whch is a 2/2. Now your opponent blocks with a 6/6 creature. After he assigns blockers you can use Crier to make him 8/8 total.

This is much better than doing it before the attack phase because you aren't giving away info. He might forget about the Crier entirely, but even if he doesn't he doesn't know that you can cast another creature as well.

If you make the Gnarr an 8/8 and then attack he may choose to chump block. If you attack with it at 2/2 he may decide to block with a 6/6 thinking he'll trade even if you use crier. So then you use Crier AND cast the madness Wurm and he has now lost his best blocker for free.

In general you want to use pump spells as late as possible. Don't give away information before you have to.

About mulliganing - it is very hard. The main thing to ask yourself if what do you need to draw to make your hand work and what are the chances of drawing that? If you have all plains and green spells in hand you need either a white card or a forest to do anything, and even if you draw a white card you then need another white card or forest to continue or you are in the exact same boat next turn.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Morat20
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Reply #24 on: May 05, 2007, 10:47:06 PM

Three games -- not for the league, I already did my five -- and three total 2-0 assrapings. I got fucking slaughtered. I probably would have put up MORE of a fight but just outright conceding the entire match.

One guy had a similar deck design to mine -- just about 10 times better. I couldn't do shit without him wiping my cards off the face of the map. The next guy -- I could get creatures out, but he could get out more. And his were fucking flying, or 6/6, or had the ability to make my own creatures turn around and kick my ass or something.

The last guy -- he crushed me while obviously struggling with mana problems.

I had one game -- I drew 7 mana. I mulliganed. Drew 6 cards, no mana. Mulliganed again. Drew 5 cards. 4 red spells and a fucking white mana. It was a mess.

I don't even know why I play this game, after an asskicking like that.
eldaec
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Reply #25 on: May 06, 2007, 02:08:12 AM

One thing to remember is that leagues (outside of release leagues) are not a casual format or full of beginner v beginner matches.

They are good for new players because you they give you an unlimited number of competitive matches, and because you can adjust your deck as often as you like, and because getting beat is probably the only way to learn to play better.

But they are very hard to do well in to begin with.

On the bright side you usually only need to win 4 or 5 of your 20 counting matches to get into the prizes. Sometimes less.


You are probably more likely to win in a draft - but drafts are over quickly, can be more expensive, and are more luck based (imo), so you learn less.

Quote
When you choose to discard, you can choose (with right click I think):

The really important thing to take from this is to use right-click a lot.

Right click always brings up the list of possible actions, so even if there is only one possible option, at least you get to confirm that you understand what it is you are doing before you make the choice.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 02:10:01 AM by eldaec »

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
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Margalis
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Reply #26 on: May 06, 2007, 06:10:06 PM

Yeah if you get used to left click you can get screwed if you say click on a Basal Sliver and it sacrifices itself immediately.

When you play league games later in the week you are more likely to play against people playing for tie-break points- better players with better decks. So it isn't unusual do do worse.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Morat20
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Reply #27 on: May 07, 2007, 10:36:51 AM

Yeah if you get used to left click you can get screwed if you say click on a Basal Sliver and it sacrifices itself immediately.

When you play league games later in the week you are more likely to play against people playing for tie-break points- better players with better decks. So it isn't unusual do do worse.
Don't get me wrong -- I've learned some new tricks. The absolute joy I felt when I had a Herd Gnarr out, used Ication Crier (made the HG 6/6), dropped some spell that gave Herd Gnarr +1/+1 and trample -- so 7/7 trampling), then dropped "Empty the Warrens" and had it pop four goblins (stormed off of something -- I think the +1/+1 trample spell, although I may have had a creature come out of suspend that turn) making my Herd Gnarr a 15/15 trampling creature when the guy had a single 4/4 creature out.

Well, that was love. Killed him the next turn, seeing as I had something like 6 1/1 creatures out, my Herd Gnarr and something else.

Most of the time, it doesn't go that way.

I could see making a very fun deck built around Criers, Herd Gnarrs, and direct damage spells.
Raging Turtle
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Reply #28 on: May 07, 2007, 01:05:36 PM

You might already know this, but alt-u is the 'undo' feature, good for fixing those game-ending misclicks.
Morat20
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Reply #29 on: May 07, 2007, 01:24:27 PM

You might already know this, but alt-u is the 'undo' feature, good for fixing those game-ending misclicks.
I can only seem to get that working on lands. Most of my problems amount to stack mis-timings. Doing instants or abilities too soon or too late, getting the order wrong on which cards to play if they're coming out of suspend, etc.
eldaec
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Reply #30 on: May 07, 2007, 03:44:06 PM

Yeah, it only works on lands.

And of course, because you are good upstanding citizen who clicks on the spell or ability before he taps for mana, you don't even need undo for that, as you get a cancel button which puts back all the lands you tapped so far and puts that card right back in your hand.

Never tap for mana before announcing the spell, it can only lead to mistakes and mana burn; plus some weird corner cases where you end up paying more than you should.

The act of tapping for mana after you select a spell gives you time to think 'am I sure?'. If you tap first, then as soon as you click on the wrong spell, it's gone and it is not coming back.

And most important of all, the cool kids you play against will snigger at you if they detect a pause between the last mana tap and the spell going on the stack.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2007, 03:48:51 PM by eldaec »

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Morat20
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Reply #31 on: May 11, 2007, 09:37:00 AM

Well, my last draw was -- okay. I got some sort of black/blue casting cost Sliver that makes all slivers defending. (Not exactly a good card for me). I got an odd red enchantment that lets me just play cause a point of damage to every creature and player in the game for every red mana I cycle through it.

Nothing truly awesome for my deck. I made a few changes, and went 1-4 for the five games this cycle. The one match I won I crushed my opponent 2-0. Of the other four, two were against top-ranked league players (I lost to the number 8 guy 0-2, and lost to the number 3 guy 1-2 -- but the both losses I had the guy down to 2 or 3 points of life. All three were close matches).

A bit more fun than usual.
Margalis
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Reply #32 on: May 11, 2007, 11:42:27 PM

Is the red card Pyrohemia? Pyrohemia is a reprint of Pestilence and a very good card.

Ways to use Pyrohemia:

Deal the last few bits of damage.
Kill your opponents small creatures while your bigger creatures survive.
Allow your little guys to block their big guys and trade 1 for 1.
Kill everything on the board then drop a new creature on the same turn for a tempo advantage.

Pyrohemia is good in most decks if you are running enough red to support it and if your deck isn't the kind of deck that gets way behind early.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Morat20
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Reply #33 on: May 12, 2007, 09:04:36 AM

Is the red card Pyrohemia? Pyrohemia is a reprint of Pestilence and a very good card.

Ways to use Pyrohemia:

Deal the last few bits of damage.
Kill your opponents small creatures while your bigger creatures survive.
Allow your little guys to block their big guys and trade 1 for 1.
Kill everything on the board then drop a new creature on the same turn for a tempo advantage.

Pyrohemia is good in most decks if you are running enough red to support it and if your deck isn't the kind of deck that gets way behind early.
That's it. I had it in and took it out -- I have too many little creatures. Lots of 1/1 tokens, that sort of thing. I get the right Slivers out and I have a lot more 4/4 stuff, but the league deck just isn't quite right for it. I'd be wasting a card slot I could use for something better.
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