So, About That Nasty SOE/Sigil Thing

[Strazos]

I would pay hard cash to watch Brad bitch and moan and cry at this point.

The tears of that kind of agony and infinite sadness...they probably taste good, too.

[Xerapis]

Think of the epic-level armor polish those would make!

[Murgos]

Brad probably made enough money in the 5 years of Vanguards development that the only tears he's crying are the tears of joy when ever he looks at his bank statement.

[HaemishM]

SOE isn't hurting for money, despite multiple failures. I'm sure EQ1's profit is enough to keep it floating for a while. And Gods and Heroes should be out this year as well, which is likely to do decent if not stellar business. I'm quite sure they paid diddly-squat for Vanguard: Brad essentially sold them the publishing rights for 9 months worth of dev money.

[Simond]

http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=8569

It's all ultimately good news, but complicated enough to justify one of my verbose postings :)  I should have my first Sigil/Vanguard update up tomorrow and then look for regular updates as to the future of the game here and on the affiliate sites (probably weekly or so, depending on what's going on).  I will post here first and then immediately copy the post to a set of the Vanguard affiliate sites.

 thanks,

-Brad

[Trippy]

It's all ultimately good news, but complicated enough to justify one of my verbose postings :)  I should have my first Sigil/Vanguard update up tomorrow and then look for regular updates as to the future of the game here and on the affiliate sites (probably weekly or so, depending on what's going on).  I will post here first and then immediately copy the post to a set of the Vanguard affiliate sites.

 thanks,

-Brad

I can hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth starting up already.

[schild]

I don't like being vague, but sometimes it really is best when coming out of the horse's mouth.

I can't wait to hear how he spins things. There's no doubt this was all part of The Vision or sommat.

[Etro]

ah but the trainwreck of a game is the vision: "..almost every aspect of what we sat down and envisioned when we were two guys in a garage talking about the game we wanted to make, has been realised..."

Still, i'm amazed that they have job openings on the company website

[Hutch]

Big long post, supposedly containing a quote from Brad Himself. VNBoards. Scroll down.

Same topic, linked from FOH, so omg slow to load.

Also, the "new home" of Brad McQuaid at SOE. He's scheduled to make an official post on Monday.

[Engels]

Oh lord, tell me they haven't completely lost their minds. A Console Programer listing on Sigil's openings page.

Qualified candidates will be faced with a bleeding edge platform with which to stretch the boundaries of console gaming.

Emphasis mine. Other duties will include stretching a 22A cup bra around Rush Limbaugh.

[schild]

Hm.

Why would anyone allow him to continue making games?

[Trippy]

Hm.

Why would anyone allow him to continue making games?

Why are people still giving money to developers like, say, NetDevil?

[Trippy]

Same topic, linked from FOH, so omg slow to load.

He still doesn't get it. A 2400+ word post and nothing in there about actually making the game fun to play. It's all about "oh we need better marketing" and "we need everybody to buy completely new machines so that they can play our game".

[schild]

Does this mean an acquisition? I can’t say at this point.

Does this mean more or less people at Sigil? I can’t say at this point.

Does this mean management changes at Sigil? I can’t say at this point.

Lol.

Edit: Should have read through the end before posting:

So what does that mean again? Again, I apologize for not being able to go into details and it’s the details that need to be worked out. But I think it’s safe to say that both Sigil and SOE see the potential of a mind blowing game by the end of the year. It's just not this one.

Hohohohohohohohohoho. Oh man. Ohhhhhhhhhhhh man. Too funny.

[Velorath]

So what does that mean again? Again, I apologize for not being able to go into details and it’s the details that need to be worked out. But I think it’s safe to say that both Sigil and SOE see the potential of a mind blowing game by the end of the year. It's just not this one.

Hohohohohohohohohoho. Oh man. Ohhhhhhhhhhhh man. Too funny.

The funniest part was the line that followed:

And so I still see a 500k+ game, I was just off by a year for a variety of reasons, some under my control, many not.

Does he have any sort of understanding of retail at all?  You don't really get do-overs.  A year from now this game will be in the bargin bins and isn't going to have the shelf presence required to add a few hundred thousand subscribers.  They won't even be able to justify working on an expansion pack anytime soon in order to keep a box on the shelf because the core game is still so unfinished.  I'm sure they'll eventually offer free downloads of the game, but even that isn't going to create the kind of leap in subscriber numbers he's thinking of.

[Trippy]

So what does that mean again? Again, I apologize for not being able to go into details and it’s the details that need to be worked out. But I think it’s safe to say that both Sigil and SOE see the potential of a mind blowing game by the end of the year. It's just not this one.

Hohohohohohohohohoho. Oh man. Ohhhhhhhhhhhh man. Too funny.

The funniest part was the line that followed:

And so I still see a 500k+ game, I was just off by a year for a variety of reasons, some under my control, many not.

Does he have any sort of understanding of retail at all?  You don't really get do-overs.  A year from now this game will be in the bargin bins and isn't going to have the shelf presence required to add a few hundred thousand subscribers.  They won't even be able to justify working on an expansion pack anytime soon in order to keep a box on the shelf because the core game is still so unfinished.  I'm sure they'll eventually offer free downloads of the game, but even that isn't going to create the kind of leap in subscriber numbers he's thinking of.

SOE aka Sony has enough pull to get/keep boxes onto the shelves. I can still buy a box for SWG at a local store for gosh sakes! I also recall seeing a "Station Pass" package that had multiple games in it so that sort of thing is an option as well if they want to keep the number of SKUs down.

I do agree another year from now isn't going to make a difference, especially if SOE is running things. Though they have improved EQ2 substantially since launch, they have not been able to improve the number of subscribers. That lack of marketing ability bodes poorly for Vanguard.

[schild]

Pretty sure SCEA ain't paying for SOE's shelf space.

[Velorath]

SOE aka Sony has enough pull to get/keep boxes onto the shelves. I can still buy a box for SWG at a local store for gosh sakes! I also recall seeing a "Station Pass" package that had multiple games in it so that sort of thing is an option as well if they want to keep the number of SKUs down.

SWG has had a few expansions, plus it has the SW name on it which I imagine must still sucker people in from time to time.  How many places do you think you'll find Planetside or even Matrix Online at though?  Station Access is a possibilty, but selling the game as part of a package isn't going to do a lot for Brad when he wants to claim sales and subscriptions are up.

[schild]

MxO was pennied out in EBStop. Planetside, eh, you see that around every now and then for $9.99.

[Velorath]

MxO was pennied out in EBStop. Planetside, eh, you see that around every now and then for $9.99.

And that's pretty much the fate that awaits Vanguard.  It's the game in the slightly worn box you see on the shelf for a few bucks, and ask yourself if you're bored enough to pick it up and play it for the free month.  SOE pushed this thing out the door rather than throw money at it until it was ready.  If Brad thinks SOE is going to want to relaunch the game in a year with a big marketing blitz he's in for a bit of a shock.  At most, maybe they'll fly you out there and tell you about all the dramatic changes they're making to the game.

[schild]

Or they'll bundle it with an expansion of EQ2. Oh that would be so rich.

[Trippy]

I was thinking about the ramifications of SOE taking over Vanguard and it dawned on me that the way SOE has handled things has been so cunningly evil EA is probably going "damn we wish we had thought of that first!". SOE forced Sigil to release the game early knowing the game sucked and would tank, and now they are in position to scoop up what's left of the flaming wreakage for a song. If they had given Sigil the money to let them keep working on the game for another 6 months (okay another year, at least), the game might have done better at launch and then Sigil would have some leverage to negotiate with SOE instead of basically being forced to give SOE whatever it is SOE wants.

BTW, AFAIK Sigil still owes Microsoft a crap load of money. MS basically allowed Sigil to write them an IOU to get back the rights to Vanguard -- that's how badly MS wanted to get rid of that thing. That's one of the reasons why Sigil went looking for VC money -- they needed to pay back MS. And now they are in a deep deep hole and the only one around looking down to see what's at the bottom is SOE.

EA, at least, buys up successful development houses before sucking all the life out of them by making them do endless sequels, working them like slaves, and forcing them to uproot their lives. Of course the fact that Vanguard sucks is not SOE's doing -- Sigil did that on their own -- but SOE cunningly took advantage of an opportunity that presented itself and sabotaged any chance the game had at doing well initially, as I said above, to minimize the acquisition cost.

As schild would say, "Well played, Mr. Smedley, well played."

[Ironwood]

That Sir Bruce translation by Itzena is comedy gold.

[schild]

Here's the thing about Sigil and why I'm not really in the SOE is evil camp.

Vanguard wasn't going to be a good game. We knew that when we first heard about it, and every step of the way they proved us right.

That development, arguably, wouldn't have made the game any better had they had another 6 months to a year of money left. In fact, I'm not even sure that anyone in that development should be in gaming. The art is terrible, the concept art was terrible, the performance was shit, the optimization was shit, the music and effects sounded stock, the design was - at best - amateur hour. I'd like to see ANYONE, including members of the dev team prove me wrong.

Normally, I'm willing to bend over backwards to defend a dev team or game. But only 2 games in history have garnered as much distrust and anger as this one. Everything about the game, head to toe, was karaoke night at Applebees. It was a goddamn joke, and honestly, SOE should gut that team to hell and back and keep only the MAYBE talented but misguided few on board. And McQuaid should be sent to the London f'in Tower.

Edit: Just for the record, I'm sure a lot of blood, sweat and tears were put into Vanguard. I'm SURE there are talented people on board on the title. I'm SURE those people would and may still do great stuff elsewhere. Unfortunately, blood, sweat, tears and unrequited love don't make a good game. You have to know what fun is first, and the design team behind Vanguard doesn't have a fucking clue what fun even means let alone what it "is." And it's utterly fucking astounding that the person who is often credited as the brain behind Everquest couldn't make a fucking diku clone. COULDN'T CLONE HIS OWN DAMN PRODUCT WITH MICROSOFT BACKING. That man should be quarantined.

Oh, and get him off the internet, his posts are filled with more bullshit than anyone else's I've ever read. And I read some pretty arrogant, pompous trash.

[Ironwood]

What are the other two games ?

[Hutch]

What are the other two games ?

I was wondering the same thing.

Also, this seems like as good a time as any to drag this back out.
One year later, Brad is still SOE's bitch.

[Mesozoic]

And as I mentioned in my last lengthy post, this group of people who played but don’t anymore could arguably be put into two sub-groups – those who look back fondly at those months and even years and those who don’t.

Brilliant.  Someone please give this man more money.

[Yegolev]

What are the other two games ?

I am going to guess Daikatana and Battlecruiser.  Perhaps SoulReaver 2, but that may just be me.  No, wait, Blood 2... I am reminded of that one thanks to playing F.E.A.R. recently.  Stupid Monolith.

[Engels]

I'm still playing Vanguard. Am I enjoying it? Yes, I am. Why? Because amidst the continuous crashes, the nonsensical quest progressions and unprepared content, there's still a lot of love found within the game. Its easy to overlook when the whole process of playing the danged thing is so daunting to the average end user.

Can Vanguard be salvaged? In other words, is there enough in the game right now to warrant a salvage operation? That's hard to say, since I have no idea how endemic the problems are within the coding.

New Targanor, the main Thestran city, crashes and quite routinely kills dozens of players in it on a hourly basis. Its been dubbed the Targanator in my guild. This has been going on for months now, without any word from the dev team regarding the problem.

There are huge dungeons that are not strategically placed. There's an entire level 18 theme park area, complete with Diablo-like villagers wanting your help to rid the area of the evil denizens, in the middle of a mid 20s zone. Noone plays there, because some moron at Sigil didn't place it within the area designed for the teen levels. Its this kind of unbelievable mismanagement that has one scratching one's head. The area itself, however, is well developed, has a plot line, a decent mini story, etc. Its just completely unused.

Toons still routinely get a complete make over due to random server crashes. You can log in one day and find your toon looking completely different. There's no reset button, either. You have to go to the character select screen and remake your toon to your original specs. As if aware of this problem, Sigil hasn't bothered to fix the problem, but provided a 'save customization profile' feature at the char gen screen.

Its nearly as if the entire dev team at Sigil is operating at 1998 level of customer expectations, and has been blissfully in the dark for the last 9 years.

My only hope, since I personally want Vanguard to survive, is that SOE goes in there and busts some serious chops.

[Ironwood]

Well, you've sold me.

[McCow]

words words words

[Simond]

That Sir Bruce translation by Itzena is comedy gold.

Thank you. :)

[Trippy]

That Sir Bruce translation by Itzena is comedy gold.

Indeed:

LoTR Online is an x-factor – reviews from beta testers seem to indicate that the game is more casual like WoW, a small game, and that it looks really good but can run on a lower end system much better than Vanguard (just as WoW can). So at least for a time the more casual bored WoW player may migrate to LoTR Online. How sticky (e.g. how long that game will hold onto players) is unknown, but I think it’s safe to say that a significant percentage of the more casual bored WoW player will head to LoTR – at least first, given the franchise around it.

Trans: I cannot believe I just got curbstomped by motherfucking Turbine.

:-D

[Ironwood]

That Sir Bruce translation by Itzena is comedy gold.

Thank you. :)

If you're subtly hinting that this was you :  Write more HERE.  That piece made me laugh long and hard and I don't do that much these days.

[Simond]

I am very rarely on that sort of form, unfortunately.