VA Tech Shootings

[stray]

Maybe if he got to meet a few cheesy 80's celebs, that would cheer him up.

Say, Charro, Mr. T, and Hulk Hogan. I can't think of anything better to brighten my day.

[Strazos]

It might be more ironic if he was a big CS fan. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/17/AR2007041700563.html?hpid=topnews

Several Korean youths who knew Cho Seung Hui from his high school days said he was a fan of violent video games, particularly Counterstrike, a hugely popular online game, in which players join terrorism or counterterrorism groups and try to shoot each other using all types of guns.

I hate being right. 

And Dr. Phil? WTF does Dr Phil know about anything?

[stray]

It sounds like they did what they could. How do you help someone like that? The guy was so antisocial that he didn't even care to acknowledge anyone or even write his name.

Prozac or some other happy pill?  I mean, if the new thing is to keep an eye out for people like this and yet there is nothing anyone can do once they are spotted then what is the point?

Maybe report him to the INS, brown shirts or whatever they are called now?

Hmm, turns out he actually was on anti-depressants. Seeing it on news headlines now. Only quote from an article I can find is here:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-070417vtech-shootings,1,176236.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

Investigators believe Cho at some point had been taking medication for depression.

One more thing that article sheds light on:

School officials said Cho posted a deadly warning on a school online forum: "im going to kill people at vtech."

*sigh*

[NiX]

And Dr. Phil? WTF does Dr Phil know about anything?

Well, if you read the quote it sure doesn't sound like he's directly blaming video games. Not to say it isn't silly, but what he pretty much says is that if you mix a metric fuckton of violence with a psychopath or sociopath, you're going to end up at trouble. Which is just common sense, but yeah, he's not totally pulling away with Jack Thompson. Not that I don't think Dr. Phil is full of shit. Doesn't he have a doctorate of english or something?

[Fabricated]

This kid was too clearly batshit insane for any sort of specific finger pointing at media to really be discussed seriously. The gun control debate and the discussion of the police's response will be much more of a focus than the fact this kid played CS. Those two points are believe it or not, more "sexy" for newscasters to discuss.

[Tale]

I don't understand why people are treating him like a guy from South Korea. His family emigrated to the USA when he was aged 8.

He was only South Korean by citizenship. For all intents and purposes, he was an American kid. He was raised in US schools, lived in US suburbs and attended a US university.

He majored in English, not as a second language, but in the same way as an American citizen might consider majoring in English, because he had pretty much always lived in the USA and spoken and read English.

How do I know so much about what it's like to emigrate into a culture? Because I emigrated to Australia from Scotland at the age of 9, one year later in my life than this shooter. I'm basically an Aussie, and my sister who was aged 7 when we emigrated, is totally Aussie.

I've been back and lived in my Scottish homeland for two years. But to everyone there, I was an Aussie. Even though I consider myself Scottish-Australian, to Australians I'm also an Aussie. I sound like one, I basically am one. I contextualise everything as an Aussie. I know Australia better than I know Scotland, because this is where I grew up.

He may have had a Korean name and statistically be Korean, but I assure you this is an American massacre by a person brought up in America, not a Korean.

[Murgos]

He was South Korean and played video games?  Particularly Counterstrike?

There's a surprise.

(rest of this snipped to avoid being shipped off to politics)

[Ironwood]

People need to externalise the foe, Tale.  It's nothing more than that.

[WindupAtheist]

Today is one fruity day!

[tazelbain]

I don't understand why people are treating him like a guy from South Korea. His family emigrated to the USA when he was aged 8.

He was only South Korean by citizenship. For all intents and purposes, he was an American kid. He was raised in US schools, lived in US suburbs and attended a US university.

He majored in English, not as a second language, but in the same way as an American citizen might consider majoring in English, because he had pretty much always lived in the USA and spoken and read English.

How do I know so much about what it's like to emigrate into a culture? Because I emigrated to Australia from Scotland at the age of 9, one year later in my life than this shooter. I'm basically an Aussie, and my sister who was aged 7 when we emigrated, is totally Aussie.

I've been back and lived in my Scottish homeland for two years. But to everyone there, I was an Aussie. Even though I consider myself Scottish-Australian, to Australians I'm also an Aussie. I sound like one, I basically am one. I contextualise everything as an Aussie. I know Australia better than I know Scotland, because this is where I grew up.

He may have had a Korean name and statistically be Korean, but I assure you this is an American massacre by a person brought up in America, not a Korean.

Who are you talking to?  No one here is trying to blame "foreigners."  The only question was his legal status and whether he could legally own a gun.

[Azazel]

I don't think Tale is referring to "here" as in f13, but to the broader picture. Remember, he works in a newsroom.

[HaemishM]

Let the mass media finger pointing begin!

Goddamnit, Dr. Phil should have his piehole shown shut with 20 copies of Hello Kitty Mass Murder Spree as a gag. Fucking twat. He's been on CNN this whole time spouting his pop psychobabble twaddle.

This is one case where there were distinct, clear signs that here was a guy likely to go out in a mass shooting spree. He was referred to counseling, which was either completely ineffectual or was hamstrung by legalities that they couldn't do anything. I'm sure they couldn't have him committed, because he hadn't actually acted on any violent impulses with suicide or attacks on others, and the cops investigated him for stalking chicks. Teachers and students were frightened of him. But what else could have been done to prevent this? The best counseling could do was apparently put him on anti-depressant drugs, which should not be considered a viable solution at all.

The kid had help available, he just chose not to take it.

As for hindsight being 20-20 on the school not locking things down, I don't buy that. When there's a shooting on campus, you lock it down. You don't have class, period. Even if it's just a suicide, you give the kids a break from classes to protect their fragile little minds. It's common courtesy to the friends of the victims, not to mention the whole potential to save other lives if there is a mad gunner on the loose. What you don't do is send out an email and let the majority of your students, the ones who don't live on campus, walk into a potential crime scene and danger zone. If it was a high school, you'd lock the place down, so why not a college?

[Abagadro]

If it was a high school, you'd lock the place down, so why not a college?

Scale. The place is 2600 acres and 25,000 students. It's basically a small town. If the circumstances look like it is an isolated incident, I can see not doing it.  With a person still "at large" you would want to increase patrols and whatnot, but I don't know about going into full lock-down mode.

[Lantyssa]

This is one case where there were distinct, clear signs that here was a guy likely to go out in a mass shooting spree. He was referred to counseling, which was either completely ineffectual or was hamstrung by legalities that they couldn't do anything. I'm sure they couldn't have him committed, because he hadn't actually acted on any violent impulses with suicide or attacks on others, and the cops investigated him for stalking chicks. Teachers and students were frightened of him. But what else could have been done to prevent this? The best counseling could do was apparently put him on anti-depressant drugs, which should not be considered a viable solution at all.

The kid had help available, he just chose not to take it.

Unfortunately true.  From personal experience, and seeing it plenty of other times, if someone does not want help no amount of trying is going to get it to them.  The kid may have been on anti-depressants, but from the personality I've seen described he probably gave no input if they were being effective so there was no way to know which meds were working.  And it is not uncommon for an individual to stop taking them when they're feeling better because "They did their job.  I'm fine now."

As for hindsight being 20-20 on the school not locking things down, I don't buy that. When there's a shooting on campus, you lock it down. You don't have class, period. Even if it's just a suicide, you give the kids a break from classes to protect their fragile little minds. It's common courtesy to the friends of the victims, not to mention the whole potential to save other lives if there is a mad gunner on the loose. What you don't do is send out an email and let the majority of your students, the ones who don't live on campus, walk into a potential crime scene and danger zone. If it was a high school, you'd lock the place down, so why not a college?

Locking down a college campus that is mostly a commuter school is not that easy.  Nor is it a high school.

More than likely it would only have changed where people were shot.  He would have gone to the dorms, or one of the food places, or gods forbid a group grief session taking place in the commons.  Two hours seems like a lot, however the police and authorities were still trying to decipher what occurred and probably in the middle of discussing what actions they should take and how to disseminate the information.

[Azazel]

But what else could have been done to prevent this? The best counseling could do was apparently put him on anti-depressant drugs, which should not be considered a viable solution at all.

The kid had help available, he just chose not to take it.

I agree completely.

I was prescribed antidepressants once. I read up on the side effects before taking any. (yeah, I know it's wiki, but it's 2am right now)

Almost all SSRIs are known to cause either one or more of these symptoms:

nausea
drowsiness or somnolence
headache
clenching of teeth
extremely vivid and strange dreams
dizziness
changes in appetite
weight loss/gain
may result in a double risk of bone fractures and injuries
changes in sexual behaviour (see the next section)
increased feelings of depression and anxiety (which may sometimes provoke panic attacks)
tremors
autonomic dysfunction including orthostatic hypotension, increased or reduced sweating
akathisia
liver or renal impairment
thoughts of suicide
depersonalization (derealization)

So. I decided not to take them.

There's a lot of stuff there that could make someone as fucked-up as Cho even worse, though. Either on them, or afterwards. I'm not blaming the antidepressants, but I don't really think of them as an answer.

[Bunk]

Without getting in to the whole gun control thing, doesn't it seem a bit wrong that a guy who had been refered to counselling and was on anti-depressants can just go in to Wal-Mart and buy a hand gun by essentially showing his ID? I know there's know easy answer here, but it would be nice to think we could keep guns out of the hands of people who are being medicated for mental issues or personality disorders.

Yes, I know he still could have bought a gun in a back alley from a guy named Gino, thats not the point.

Anyway, no real need to respond to that - I'll leave that for politics.

Here's hoping that anyone who had friends at the school was able to confirm they are all right.

[HaemishM]

Background checks do not include psych evaluations, unless of course, the person has actually been arrested for something to do with his psychosis. Background checks are all about the criminal record, and nothing else, AFAIK.

[Abagadro]

The nutbag that shot up my wife's office building 8 years ago had a long history of mental illness and was able to walk into a gun shop and buy a weapon. You have to have an affirmative adjudication of metal illness by a court (which is often difficult to get) before it restricts the ability to purchase a gun.

EDIT: Oh, she also had a criminal record, but not a felony which is what tips the balance.

The firearm used in the shooting was attained legally at a Taylorsville gun shop hours before the shooting. Despite being treated for schizophrenia through an outpatient mental health treatment program, and accumulating a criminal history that included stalking, disorderly conduct, interfering with an arrest, and illegally carrying a concealed weapon, Duy was not prohibited from buying a firearm. Her mental health treatment had not been involuntary and all of her arrests were misdemeanors, therefore Duy was not prohibited from purchasing a firearm.

[Xanthippe]

I just found this tshirt.  Seems appropriate.

[Sky]

My girlfriend's mother is a nurse and she's long been appalled at the lack of good mental health care in this country. Here, take a pill (that will make you worse off than you were!). We used to have a major psychiatric institution in the area (that's now one of several jails/prisons). Toss all the insane in little houses (except those that got tossed on the street, of course), then cut the funding.

I guess it beats drilling holes in their heads or hooking them up to electrodes...

[ClydeJr]

Heh.

Jack Thompson a "Person of Interest" in VA Tech Shooting

"Before we were even able to identity the shooter, Thompson revealed an insider's knowledge of the causes of the massacre to television audiences across the country," local Sheriff Ian Bridges told reporters. "It stands to reason, then, that Thompson must have known the shooter personally if he was able to inform viewers the individual played video games."

Officials point out that Jack Thompson has no prior history of psychic investigation or hands-on experience with augury, palmistry, cartomancy, entrail-reading or any other forms of divination. Supporters of Thompson, however, point out that the lawyer has experimented with the art of Gyromancy in the past. Gyromancy is a form of divination based on whirling around rapidly until the querent is dizzy and falls down, which some believe may be the basis of many of Thompson's theories about gun violence.

[Llava]

tremors

Antidepressants can cause earthquakes?  Damn, that's some Looney Tunes shit right there.

[Xanthippe]

Had a discussion with a much-younger friend (she's 32) today about the rash of school shootings and violence in general since 1950.  She has this idea that history began when she was born, and is sublimely unaware of much that happened previous to that time, a common malady.

Anyway, this might be of interest.  I found out that the worst school massacre of all time happened in 1927 - called the Bath School disaster.

Angry crazy guy plants three bombs, two of which blow up.  Kills 45 people, mostly children, and wounds 50.

These things happen more often now because there are more people now.  I don't think the proportion of angry crazy guys is any higher than it ever was.  In other words, it's not because of availability of guns, violence in popular media culture (movies, games, cartoons, comic books), or anything else.  It's because of angry crazy people.

[Righ]

In other words, it's not because of availability of guns, violence in popular media culture (movies, games, cartoons, comic books), or anything else.

That said, I suspect that the lack of gun violence prior to the 15th century was more strongly predicated by the lack of guns.

[WindupAtheist]

tremors

Antidepressants can cause earthquakes?  Damn, that's some Looney Tunes shit right there.

That's no earthquake!

[Sky]

That said, I suspect that the lack of gun violence prior to the 15th century was more strongly predicated by the lack of guns.

Ah, ye goode auld dayes! When a gentle couldst lay about himself on yon playground with a stout cudgel!

And don't forget about the crossbow massacre of 1326, with a record 2 slayings.

[Murgos]

That said, I suspect that the lack of gun violence prior to the 15th century was more strongly predicated by the lack of guns.

Ah, ye goode auld dayes! When a gentle couldst lay about himself on yon playground with a stout cudgel!

And don't forget about the crossbow massacre of 1326, with a record 2 slayings.

They had mass murderers back in the day, they just called them 'Lord" and "Sir" so I can see why it would slip by you.

[WindupAtheist]

They had mass murderers back in the day, they just called them 'Lord" and "Sir" so I can see why it would slip by you.

[Driakos]

Apparently the douchebag sent a package to the media, between the first two shootings, and the later 31.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

[Evil Elvis]

There's a rash of bomb and death threats going on across the country right now.

Aggrandizing sociopaths in the media only makes other sociopaths want to get in on the action.  Who knew?

[Merusk]

There's a rash of bomb and death threats going on across the country right now.

Aggrandizing sociopaths in the media only makes other sociopaths want to get in on the action.  Who knew?

Yeah there's been a guy on the various "NBC's" for the last few days saying exactly that.  "How about we down-play the 'record killing' angle, as it just encourages borderline people.  Records are there to be broken."  I can't say I disagree with that line of thinking.

Then again, I also take offense at calling this the largest shooting in US history. By a single person, perhaps, but not the largest.

[Furiously]

I really wish the news media wouldn't name the killer.

I really with the news media wouldn't pander to special interest groups sujecturing about the cause. Until there was a sufficient body of evidence.

I really wish the news media would focus more on the lives taken, who those people were and whom they would have have been instead of focusing on the person who did the destroying.

I really wish they focused on the tragedy instead of the circus.

[Damn Dirty Ape]

But then speculating about his possible connection to Islam wouldn't take place:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0407/1803_vt_cho_arm.html

I was waiting for this to happen once the media circus started up.  Cynicism 4tw.

[Llava]

He has speech patterns similar to Napoleon Dynamite.

[TheWalrus]

I really wish the news media wouldn't name the killer.

I really wish the news media would focus more on the lives taken, who those people were and whom they would have have been instead of focusing on the person who did the destroying.

I really wish they focused on the tragedy instead of the circus.

Yep. I'm not thrilled with MSN plastering pictures all over of him posing like a badass with his pistols. Glorifying the killer and forgetting the killed. Stupid.