VA Tech Shootings

[Big Gulp]

Interesting that he's a foreigner, considering that he had two handguns on him.  You can't legally purchase a handgun unless you're a citizen.

"One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol."

If he's not a citizen then whichever dealer sold him the weapon fucked up in a big way by not running the federal background check.

[Righ]

Okay. I just checked. In Pennsylvania, I can still legally purchase a handgun (as many as I want in fact) as a resident alien. Provided that I'm over 18 and pass a NICS check (no federal crimes listed) I can pick up a gun without permit, training, or anything else. For concealable weapons, I'd have to provide a name and address for local police records. That's it.

If you renounce citizenship you can't buy or own guns. But if you never became a citizen, that's just fine. Buy what you like lad.

[HaemishM]

Gun control wouldn't have stopped this asshole since his guns were illegal to begin with.

This statement I agree with, although I really don't think CCW's would have helped much. Maybe a few less dead, maybe not. This guy appeared to be one helluva good shot.

The only real gun control measures I think ought to be enacted are that every person purchasing a weapon be required by law to attend training classes on the proper use of firearms (paid for as a tax on the firearm), as well as having yearly refresher sessions in which they must present their weapons. Each weapon should also have ballistic information on file.

Neither will help the problem with the use of illegally purchased weapons, but it will hopefully cut down on gun accidents as well as tracking the use of weapons. Gun ownership should be considered a sacred trust with the society that allows gun ownership, and as such, the gun owner owes a responsibility to maintain the weapon, his skills and to track the weapon's use.

[Big Gulp]

Okay. I just checked. In Pennsylvania, I can still legally purchase a handgun (as many as I want in fact) as a resident alien. Provided that I'm over 18 and pass a NICS check (no federal crimes listed) I can pick up a gun without permit, training, or anything else. For concealable weapons, I'd have to provide a name and address for local police records. That's it.

If you renounce citizenship you can't buy or own guns. But if you never became a citizen, that's just fine. Buy what you like lad.

Are you shitting me?  I thought non-citizens could still buy longarms, but definitely not handguns.

[Righ]

Not shitting you. Here's Virginia's law, which is tougher than PA, but not heaps:

Lawful Alien Status

Federal law requires a transferee (buyer) who is not a citizen of the United States to provide additional identification in order to establish that he or she is a resident of a State. Such a transferee must provide a valid government-issued photo-identification to the seller that contains the buyer’s name, date of birth, and residence address. The Alien Resident identification number or INS Admission Number must be recorded on the Virginia Firearms Transaction Record (SP-65) form. In addition, such a transferee must provide documentation such as a utility bill or lease agreement that would establish that he or she has resided for at least 90 days prior to the date of this sale.

[Triforcer]

Clearly, the solution is to ban immigration instead.

[Damn Dirty Ape]

It reminded me that in 1973 Hawkwind released their single to follow up on their chart-topping Silver Machine, a track called Urban Guerrilla. No sooner had they done so, the IRA restarted its bombing campaign on central London. The BBC refused to play the single, and the record company reluctantly withdrew it.

[Derail]Damn, "Urban Gurrilla" popped into my head too when I heard of PT's dillemma.  Not that I'm a big fan of Hawkwind, though Live Chronicles has the dubious honor of being the cheesiest album in my collection.[/Derail]

[Righ]

An ape ought to be able to spell guerrilla.  :-D

[Damn Dirty Ape]

That said. I think it's odd that they are postponing the Gonzales hearing due to this. What's up with that?

As much as I despise Bush and his minions, the postponement is showing manners in the face of a national tragedy.  Besides, they're picking back up on Thursday.

[Damn Dirty Ape]

An ape ought to be able to spell guerrilla.  :-D

Ook.

[Miasma]

That said. I think it's odd that they are postponing the Gonzales hearing due to this. What's up with that?

As much as I despise Bush and his minions, the postponement is showing manners in the face of a national tragedy.  Besides, they're picking back up on Thursday.

I doubt it has anything to do with manners, the senators were probably pissed off that they wouldn't make the news last night due to this taking up all the airtime so they postponed it.

[Damn Dirty Ape]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the manners issue, but the Gonzales issue does need the nation's full attention.  So, hurray for the postponement.

[bhodi]

sounds like bush is going to be making a "surprise" visit:

There will be two large 30-nautical-mile-radius temporary flight restrictions (TFRs). The first will be centered on the ROA VOR's 107-degree radial at 5.3 miles, extending up to Flight Level 180. It will be in effect twice today.

--12:20 p.m. until 1:15 p.m.
--3:35 p.m. until 4:40 p.m

[Righ]

Well spotted.

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_7_8397.html


edit: and here's the press:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070417/NEWS07/70417008/1138/BLOG

[NiX]

Just thought I'd share the e-mail that went out to my entire school today:

Subject: Virginia Tech

By now, you have heard about the latest shootings at Virginia Tech. This morning, the Sheridan community again shares a deep pain and sadness that always follows such events. It is incomprehensible how mere months after the shootings at Dawson College, we are once more confronted with so many victims again gunned down during the pursuit of education in what should be a safe and secure environment.

The details are unclear, including the motivations of the gunman, his precise actions and the response of the school's administration and security personnel.

As always, however, we try our best to learn from tragedies such as this to better prepare and ensure the safety and security of our students, faculty and staff.

Our own procedures have been updated after extensive consultation with local and regional police forces. The installation of public address systems is underway in a phased approach to enable us to broadcast lockdown procedures. We are finding that appropriate balance to clearly and concisely communicate lockdown procedures to follow in an active shooter situation without contributing to an atmosphere of fear and anxiety.

As the details and media reports unfold, I can anticipate the analysis which will identify the forces of alienation that breed exclusion, which fosters anger and rage.

Which is why at this critical, sometimes stressful point in our academic year, I urge you to please look after each other, and look after yourselves. Seek out counselling, find support if you're feeling the pressure. Reach out to those who may be at risk and again, let's find reason to strengthen our community on the midst of theses perverse tragedies.

Rob Turner

[Ironwood]

Nice.

[WindupAtheist]

You can learn a lot about urban warfare and police tactics from video games, actually.  Not that I'm blaming them, but they are good training tools for psychopaths.

I'm going to rob a guy, then go down to the river and stand in just the right position relative to the docks.  If video games have taught me anything about police tactics, the cops should end up zooming around a corner and driving into the water one car at a time.  If I just lie down in that spot and take a nap without moving, I should be able to kill the entire police department in a matter of hours.

This is in keeping with other authentic police tactics I've learned from games, like attacking a rampaging tank by driving your car under the treads, and confronting a sniper by running across a wide open field to shoot at him with a handgun.

[Murgos]

This is in keeping with other authentic police tactics I've learned from games, like attacking a rampaging tank by driving your car under the treads, and confronting a sniper by running across a wide open field to shoot at him with a handgun.

You forgot the hopping.  If you're not hopping he's going to get you.  Hop little bunny hop!

[WayAbvPar]

You can learn a lot about urban warfare and police tactics from video games, actually.  Not that I'm blaming them, but they are good training tools for psychopaths.

I'm going to rob a guy, then go down to the river and stand in just the right position relative to the docks.  If video games have taught me anything about police tactics, the cops should end up zooming around a corner and driving into the water one car at a time.  If I just lie down in that spot and take a nap without moving, I should be able to kill the entire police department in a matter of hours.

This is in keeping with other authentic police tactics I've learned from games, like attacking a rampaging tank by driving your car under the treads, and confronting a sniper by running across a wide open field to shoot at him with a handgun.

Gold.

[Sky]

Dolphin diving irl ftw!

(In a related note, seriously...I hate online fps because of sploiters)

[Roac]

Interesting that he's a foreigner, considering that he had two handguns on him.  You can't legally purchase a handgun unless you're a citizen.

"One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol."

If he's not a citizen then whichever dealer sold him the weapon fucked up in a big way by not running the federal background check.

Yes, you can purchase a handgun if you are foreign.  It's a pain, but doable. 

[WayAbvPar]

Crappy play authored by the shooter.

Wow. I hope he was failing as an English major, because that is some shitty writing.

[Riggswolfe]

This whole thing makes me angry and sad at the same time. I'm not from that area, but that myspace page someone linked to really brought it home. Most of the survivors I'm hearing about were shot multiple times and I am guessing that's how he killed so many. He filled people with bullets.

The two hour gap is what gets me. The first two could almost be considered crimes of passion, but what happened in that engineering hall is downright evil.

[Slayerik]

This whole thing makes me angry and sad at the same time. I'm not from that area, but that myspace page someone linked to really brought it home. Most of the survivors I'm hearing about were shot multiple times and I am guessing that's how he killed so many. He filled people with bullets.

The two hour gap is what gets me. The first two could almost be considered crimes of passion, but what happened in that engineering hall is downright evil.

Yeah the myspace page really got me thinking more than anything else. The song name on her profile, "Overkill",  is horribly ironic. :(

Fuck that heartless son of a bitch that did this. I hope he burns.

[Ironwood]

Crappy play authored by the shooter.

Wow. I hope he was failing as an English major, because that is some shitty writing.

No need to hit him where it hurts, he's dead now.

Unless that's what actually sparked him off.  "CRITIQUE MY PLAY, WOULD YOU ?"

Who knows.  Who cares.

[Righ]

Yes, you can purchase a handgun if you are foreign.  It's a pain, but doable. 

When you say that its a pain, thats because I can't use my Amazon.com one-click to buy it, isn't it? In PA I can just buy it by handing over my drivers license and waiting for a minute while they do the same Fed & local criminal background checks that everybody gets.

[HaemishM]

Crappy play authored by the shooter.

Wow. I hope he was failing as an English major, because that is some shitty writing.

Fuck. That was an affront. I'm surprised someone didn't kill him first.

[CmdrSlack]

It really hits you when you can put just one face on it.....Even if it is a stranger's. 

http://www.myspace.com/super_sneaky_ninja

I felt really strange looking at this myspace page, but the comments really drove home the point.

What's fucked up, besides of course that this subhuman fuck decided to take out his rage on others, is how the campus authorities and local police seemed to have handled the first shooting. The email message was not enough. The school should have been closed, locked down, classes cancelled and no one allowed in (students who were driving into class and not able to get email) until they could figure out what went on. Shit, even if it had just been the two students in the dorm who shot and killed each other, you cancel class for the psychological impact alone, the whole day of mourning thing. But instead, they let classes go on, while it appears the cops tripped over their own dicks. Maybe if those classes were canceled, less would have been hit by the second shooting.

I could certainly be wrong, but as an outside asshole observer, it seems like some serious culpability lies on the school.

Hindsight is 20-20 man.  I watched the press conference they gave yesterday and while we know now that they messed up, locking down an entire school for what seemed to be an isolated incident probably seemed like a non-option to them.  Heck, when you think about the role of most campus cops, homicide investigations and criminal profiling aren't really their forte.  Add to the equasion the fact that the main shootings took place about two hours after the first two and I can see why they did what they did.  It's a campus of 26,000 students, with only 9k living on campus.  Sure, in hindsight, they dropped the ball -- why didn't they at very least have the off-duty guys come in and patrol the campus?  The story they told at the press conference was that they had reason to believe the shooter had left teh campus and was trying to flee the state. 

If things like this were easily avoided, they wouldn't be tragedies when they happened.

[croaker69]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/17/AR2007041700563.html?hpid=topnews

Several Korean youths who knew Cho Seung Hui from his high school days said he was a fan of violent video games, particularly Counterstrike, a hugely popular online game, in which players join terrorism or counterterrorism groups and try to shoot each other using all types of guns.

[Azazel]

ah, there we are.

[stray]

Unfortunately, that's what the media is going to latch on to.....While ignoring the real problem --- that he was simply a deranged sociopath.

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/

When I first heard about the multiple shootings at Virginia Tech yesterday, my first thought was about my friends, and my second thought was "I bet it was Seung Cho."

Cho was in my playwriting class last fall, and nobody seemed to think much of him at first. He would sit by himself whenever possible, and didn't like talking to anyone. I don't think I've ever actually heard his voice before. He was just so quiet and kept to himself. Looking back, he fit the exact stereotype of what one would typically think of as a "school shooter" – a loner, obsessed with violence, and serious personal problems. Some of us in class tried to talk to him to be nice and get him out of his shell, but he refused talking to anyone. It was like he didn't want to be friends with anybody. One friend of mine tried to offer him some Halloween candy that she still had, but he slowly shook his head, refusing it. He just came to class every day and submitted his work on time, as I understand it.

A major part of the playwriting class was peer reviews. We would write one-act plays and submit them to an online repository called Blackboard for everyone in the class to read and comment about in class the next day. Typically, the students give their opinions about the plays and suggest ways to make it better, the professor gives his insights, then asks the author to comment about the play in class.

When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare. The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of. Before Cho got to class that day, we students were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter. I was even thinking of scenarios of what I would do in case he did come in with a gun, I was that freaked out about him. When the students gave reviews of his play in class, we were very careful with our words in case he decided to snap. Even the professor didn't pressure him to give closing comments.

More accounts of his behavior:

"Neighbor Abdul Shash said the gunman played basketball and wouldn't respond if someone greeted him.

He was "very quiet, always by himself," said Shash.

Those tendencies carried on into college, where Cho apparently made it through nearly four years without making many friends.

Classmates said that on the first day of an introduction to British literature class last year, the 30 or so English students went around and introduced themselves.

When it was Cho's turn, he didn't speak.

The professor looked at the sign-in sheet and, where everyone else had written their names, Cho had written a question mark.

"Is your name, 'Question mark?'" classmate Julie Poole recalled the professor asking.

The young man offered little response.

Cho spent much of that class sitting in the back of the room, wearing a hat and seldom participating. In a small department, Cho distinguished himself for being anonymous.

"He didn't reach out to anyone. He never talked," Poole said. "We just really knew him as the 'question mark kid.'"

A Virginia Tech professor said Cho's work in creative-writing class was so disturbing that he had been referred to the school's counseling service.

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said she did not personally know the gunman.

But she said she spoke with Lucinda Roy, the department's director of creative writing, who had Cho in one of her classes and described him as "troubled."

"There was some concern about him," Rude said. "Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be. But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

[Oban]

A Virginia Tech professor said Cho's work in creative-writing class was so disturbing that he had been referred to the school's counseling service.

Um, huge red flag there.

So he was sent for "help" but still acted out?

[stray]

It sounds like they did what they could. How do you help someone like that? The guy was so antisocial that he didn't even care to acknowledge anyone or even write his name.

[Llava]

Let the mass media finger pointing begin!

[Oban]

It sounds like they did what they could. How do you help someone like that? The guy was so antisocial that he didn't even care to acknowledge anyone or even write his name.

Prozac or some other happy pill?  I mean, if the new thing is to keep an eye out for people like this and yet there is nothing anyone can do once they are spotted then what is the point?

Maybe report him to the INS, brown shirts or whatever they are called now?