Bethesda gets Fallout

[Yegolev]

God, you fuckers are hell-bent on making me reinstall these games, aren't you?

[schild]

God, you fuckers are hell-bent on making me reinstall these games, aren't you?

You know, the new Metal Gear Solid 4 trailer says "War Has Changed" like 10 times in 14 minutes (long trailer...).

I'm all like "WAR HASN'T CHANGED, YOU ASSHOLES!"

[Wolf]

War? War never changes.

[CmdrSlack]

God, you fuckers are hell-bent on making me reinstall these games, aren't you?

Ah hell, I broke down and bought the fallout collection just because I can't find my Fallout 1 disks and I never played Tactics. That should help me fill some time 'till Fall 2008.

[lesion]

I bought the Interplay 15th anniversary collection solely for the Fallout disc and vowed to guard it with my life, and now I can only find the second CD which of course only contains gems like Redneck Rampage, MAX and virtual pool

[murdoc]

God, you fuckers are hell-bent on making me reinstall these games, aren't you?

Ah hell, I broke down and bought the fallout collection just because I can't find my Fallout 1 disks and I never played Tactics. That should help me fill some time 'till Fall 2008.

Where'd you buy it from? I'm thinking I really need to play these games.

[MisterNoisy]

Amazon has a DVD compilation for $20 or so.

[murdoc]

Sadly, I don't have a DVD drive in my PC. I really need to upgrade that puppy.

[MisterNoisy]

Sadly, I don't have a DVD drive in my PC. I really need to upgrade that puppy.

$32  :D

[Wolf]

Copy/paste from a GAF thread, the guy got the info from a GI Article -

The article is based on an hour long demo GI was given. I'll list the high points

- Game runs on an evolved version of the Oblivion engine. Third person view has been reworked since the verdict was that the Oblivion version sucked balls.

- Game starts with your birth and your mother's death in a vault hospital. This is essentially the character customization part of the game. Your father hands you up to have your DNA analyzed and you get to pick out all your character traits. Your dad takes off his mask to reveal similar traits to the ones you picked.

- You grow up in the vault and as you grow you get your first book titled "You're Special" which allows you to choose you baseline stats for each of your 7 primary aptitudes. You'll also get your first weapons and wrist computer (menu) as you get older you'll take tests to determine the initial layout of your skills and traits.

- Every aspect of character creation is based on S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system. Of your 14 skills you can tag 3 to grow at a faster rate than the rest as you level up.

- Battle system is called the Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System (V.A.T.S.). The article states. "While you'll certainly be able to tackle enemies in real time using first person shooting, V.A.T.S. lets players pause time and select a target at their leisure". Battle system still uses action points, but once you've used them up you'll still be able to fight targets in real time while they charge back up.

- Game is still violent and gory. One of the featured screens is of a guy's head exploding in super gory detail. Apparently all gory deaths in the game will be in slow motion.

- More than one way to play the game. Go balls out and kill people, or sneak past situations, or perhaps talk your way out of situations.

- Enemies can target you just like you can target them, so you can get injured in very specific points on you body. This is in addition to an all new health/radiation system. This new system has you measuring how radiated certain things (like water) are and how they affect you when you consume them.

- Karma system returns

- XP based system, most XP comes from quests

- Level cap is 20

- 9 - 12 possible endings based on your actions in the game

- No level scaling like oblivion, you walk into a high level area, you die horribly.

- There are NPC's you can hire, but this is not a party based game.

Sounds... promising... dare I hope? :)

[NiX]

I sure hope you can toggle the slow-mo. That shit is annoying.

[Murgos]

Yeah, but can you make an NPC explode from too much sex?

[Yegolev]

Can you get a job as a fluffer?

[Riggswolfe]

Yeah, but can you make an NPC explode from too much sex?

I must have missed this one. Sounds like a glitch. Heh.

[squirrel]

God, you fuckers are hell-bent on making me reinstall these games, aren't you?

Same. I had to go find the OS X versions - my old disks no work any more. But now I am rejoicing. And you know what? I'm only a little ways in but the first one is every bit as good as I remember it.

[WindupAtheist]

- Battle system is called the Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System (V.A.T.S.). The article states. "While you'll certainly be able to tackle enemies in real time using first person shooting, V.A.T.S. lets players pause time and select a target at their leisure". Battle system still uses action points, but once you've used them up you'll still be able to fight targets in real time while they charge back up.

Wait, what?  This sounds confusing as shit to someone who hasn't played Fallout.  So you're fighting in some typical faggoty pseudo-strategic RPG fashion, and when you run out of "action points" you play it like a shooter until they regenerate?  I hope this is some sort of misbegotten code for "Yeah, it has real-time combat like a real videogame, but you can pause it and fuck around with movement points if you're some kind of homo."

God I hate RPG combat in general.  We're way past the point where an RPG ought to just be an action game with deeper gameplay and character customization, but this particular aspect of this particular genre is fucking dysfunctional.  Put down your dice, developer assholes.  I don't give a shit what my agility stat is.  If the model of my sword intersects with the model of some guy's head and he doesn't yell "Ouch!" then your game is horseshit.

[Murgos]

Wait, what?  This sounds confusing as shit to someone who hasn't played Fallout.  So you're fighting in some typical faggoty pseudo-strategic RPG fashion, and when you run out of "action points" you play it like a shooter until they regenerate?  I hope this is some sort of misbegotten code for "Yeah, it has real-time combat like a real videogame, but you can pause it and fuck around with movement points if you're some kind of homo."

God I hate RPG combat in general.  We're way past the point where an RPG ought to just be an action game with deeper gameplay and character customization, but this particular aspect of this particular genre is fucking dysfunctional.  Put down your dice, developer assholes.  I don't give a shit what my agility stat is.  If the model of my sword intersects with the model of some guy's head and he doesn't yell "Ouch!" then your game is horseshit.

It took me a while to figure out what you were talking about but I finally got it.  So, to keep other people from having to spend a lot of time deciphering random internet spew I will just rephrase it for them into a coherent thought:

HAI, I AM A TROLL.

[Tebonas]

The problem is with you, because you obviously play a genre you don't like. Which is kind of retarded when there are enough ego shooters you could play instead.

Plus, find somebody who helps you out of the closet. Your abundant usage of homosexual terms in a completely unrelated topic shows you deny yourself some deep seated desires.

[Calantus]

RPG != Action

It's hard to pin down because RPG as a term has been so abused it's lost almost all meaning. Since we're using RPG in game terms I'll use that and ignore the whole role-playing side it developed from (and I could care less about TBH). A pure RPG is more like a strategy game than anything else, you build up your character and have it fight the battles for you. The game itself is in the choices you make and the work you put into the character before battles, and to a lesser extent the decisions you make during the battles themselves. Action or FPS RPGs add onto RPG framework or merge the genre or are a different sub-genre, they aren't a part of the pure RPG.

So when you say RPGs should strip out all the mechanics that make them RPGs... I have to assume you're either off your rocker or are misusing the RPG term. What you're describing is an FPS game with the fallout setting, a story, and character interaction.

I do agree that the system they're using sounds weird as hell though. I'll have to see it in action before I get exactly what they mean I think.



I don't use "pure" in a condescending sense to imply that anything that isn't "pure" is less, just using it as a descriptor. I added this because inevitably someone would otherwise accuse me of being an RPG snob or somesuch.

[Sky]

I love action games, but I also like the turn-based combat of a lot of rpgs. I think there is plenty of room for both action-rpgs and tactical-rpgs, and I'll play both. Of course...bethesda is kind of killing the concept of action-rpg with ever iteration of elder scrolls and the great action-rpg Bloodlines killed troika...

So there's that.

[Teleku]

Err, yeah, I'm pretty confused on this battle system thing.  Is the game in 3rd person Isometric view, like the old ones?  Or maybe just 3rd person with the camera floating around which ever way you want?  It did seem to say there was 3rd person, but that you could also switch to FPS mode in real time.....  Does that mean you actually shoot and based on where you shot depends if you hit?  And not on your stats?  I really really hope not.  How the hell do you work action points into that?  This isn't making any sense.  They really need to release some gameplay footage, heh.

[MrHat]

Game Informer has a spread this month w/ some in game screenies.

[Kail]

It took me a while to figure out what you were talking about but I finally got it.  So, to keep other people from having to spend a lot of time deciphering random internet spew I will just rephrase it for them into a coherent thought:

WindupAtheist:"HAI, I AM A TROLL."

Personally, I'm kind of wondering the same thing WUA is, I think.  What the heck is this VATS thing?  I never played Fallout, either, so it makes zero sense to me.  It sounds like you can play the game either in a Oblivion-ish, real-time action mode, or you can pause to switch it to a turn-based strategic mode, but when you use up your movement points for a specific turn you can continue to fight in real-time?  Wuh?  So it's a game that plays in real time while it's paused, and you're assigning action points until you run out but then you keep going anyway?  Either I'm really not getting this, or this system is truly bizarre.

[schild]

If a system is hard to explain, that normally means it sucks. Even the most complicated systems of parry and counter in 2D fighting games can be explained easily. Hell, I can explain how the meta games in Disgaea work in plain-speak. Doesn't mean it's easy in action though.

[WindupAtheist]

Everyone has come to associate the term RPG with shitty transparently number-crunching combat, and not with anything vaguely resembling roleplaying.  So let me explain what I'm talking about.

Take KOTOR.  Tear out the combat system and have all the fighting play like JK2 or something.  Have my character stats, and the items which buff them, just influence things like how quickly I can move and how much damage I can take.  Replace the "+5 to hit chance" and "+1 to critical chance" special moves with action game moves that take actual skill to land properly.  Redesign the combat locations to accomodate this new system.  Make the party members bots.  Good ones, that you can quickly give orders to by tapping a hotkey.

Keep the character depth, the story, the quests, the non-linearity, and all the other things besides shitty combat that make it an RPG.  Keep the classes and levels if you must have them.  Just replace the combat with something that makes a non-RPG gamer go "Hey that looks fun!" and not "So are you controlling this?" whereupon you sheepishly reply "Sort of."

I like roleplaying games a lot more than shooters, but I like them in spite of their combat systems, not for them.

[Big Gulp]

I like roleplaying games a lot more than shooters, but I like them in spite of their combat systems, not for them.

This from the guy who still plays UO.

Any opinion you have regarding RPG's and their merits is inherently worthless.  Thanks for playing, though.

[WindupAtheist]

I love how every dipshit who wants to rebut me in some way, but who can't actually think of anything cogent, will automatically go "LOL U PLAY UO" like it's fucking news or something.  Yeah dumbass, I like me some UO.  It does things other games don't.  Try again.

[Tebonas]

Take KOTOR.  Tear out the combat system and have all the fighting play like JK2 or something.  Have my character stats, and the items which buff them, just influence things like how quickly I can move and how much damage I can take.  Replace the "+5 to hit chance" and "+1 to critical chance" special moves with action game moves that take actual skill to land properly.  Redesign the combat locations to accomodate this new system.  Make the party members bots.  Good ones, that you can quickly give orders to by tapping a hotkey.

Your problem is that you don't understand that while this would be a superior game for you, for others it would be inferior. You narcissism might not let you grasp this (because you repeat the exact same thing with slower words like we didn't get it the first time) but this is what you would prefer. Not what everybody would prefer. Hell, there is JK2 to play for you, and I wouldn't touch JK2 with a five foot pole anymore. Yes, I played it but I find action games tedious and they come in the way of me enjoying the story. I force myself through them to enjoy the story just like you seem to do with RPGs with tactical round based combats. Its just different kind of games. Why can't you grasp that simple truth? The fact that there are two entirely different games in the same world for our opposite tastes is an advantage. I for example like to give commands to all my party members in a combat situation one after another, I hate hate HATE boted party members. Its a entirely different kind of game and what you are wanting here is nothing more or less than every game being tailored exactly to your needs, the preferences of other people be damned.

[Wolf]

Hey Schild is it ok to link the GI scans? They're up at the usual place for fallout news :)

from the article - Fallouty Isometric is out. The options are first person and over-the-shoulder 3rd person (they compare it to RE4).

Here's how they explain the APs - "While you'll certainly be able to tackle enemies in real time first-person shooting, V.A.T.S. lets players pause time and select a target at their leisure. Once targeted, a zoomed-in view of that enemy will show all the places you could aim to hit the creature, and the percentage chance you'll succeed. This percentage is based on distance, enemy defense, his cover, as well as your ability with the weapon at hand, among other factors. Just like in the original Fallout, you'll have a set number of action points, largely based on your agility score. Every combat move you make will deplete this supply, at which point those AP will begin to regenerate in real time at a rate that also corresponds with your agility. Once you complete all your actions in V.A.T.S. you can continue to attack in real time, but this will dramatically slow the recharge of your action points"

[Ironwood]

Wow, my 'This Game Will Suck Balls'-sense is tingling.

[Tebonas]

Yeah, sounds worse from clarification to clarification.

[NowhereMan]

I'm getting a very strong sense of "Turn based games will never be big sellers" meets "The fan base for this game won't play it if it isn't turn based" meets Bethesda's attitude of "let people do whatever the hell they like".

I'm guessing there'll soon be mods out that only allow one or other form of combat and also that the system they've got going is just going to seem retarded.

[Strazos]

Again, that sounds like a TERRIBLE idea. Pick one play mode, because this combo shit is nonsense.

Also, WUA is being a moronic trolling bag of douche. Nothing to see people, move along.

[Teleku]

.....damnit, I was getting my hopes up for this game.  Why the fuck do they have to add in that FPS action shit?  It's going to kill the game (well, maybe not, they could make a fun game out of it in there own way I guess...).  Just make it a turn based action game like all the other fallouts you bastards!

And WUA, yes, you seem to be trolling.  The whole dice rolling stat based combat thing is a genre.  I happen to like it alot.  So do many.  KOTOR was about a thousand times better as it was than it would have been as yet another Starwars action game (IMO).  Your post is like me going a thread about FPS games and saying "All this point and shoot crap is Bullshit!  All of these games would be much better if they got rid of it then added in stat points and skills!"  Having said that though, I do think Deus Ex was one of the greatest games ever made ;).

[Murgos]

It took me a while to figure out what you were talking about but I finally got it.  So, to keep other people from having to spend a lot of time deciphering random internet spew I will just rephrase it for them into a coherent thought:

WindupAtheist:"HAI, I AM A TROLL."

Personally, I'm kind of wondering the same thing WUA is, I think. What the heck is this VATS thing?

We all have that same concern about the combat system.  Even more so as they release details.  That wasn't WUA's point though.  WUA was being a douche and saying that the entire multi-million selling genre of stat based RPG needs to be replaced with more FPS titles because only homosexuals like the modern RPG system.

It was a troll post.  It's not actually intended to be rebutted or argued because it's pointless and it's real intention was to rile people up.

That said, Fallout I and II were party based, turn based, stat centric RPG's complete with conversation tree and multiple ending.

I didn't anticipate that Bethesda would just stop making RPGs the way they make them (first person, real-time) just because they bought a license that doesn't fit their mold.  It's they way that they make RPGs and has been for a long time.  I don't think they should call this Fallout III though, because it's not.  It might be set in the Fallout world but it's obviously a new game and not a sequel.