So. Building a new 'puter.

[SnakeCharmer]

The boss (read: wife) gave the go ahead to build a new comp if I was so inclined.  I've no longer got the desire to be on the bleeding edge, just something to get the job done.

So far:
SAMSUNG Black 18X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 18X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA DVD Burner With LightScribe Technology
Antec PERFORMANCE TX TX1050B Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case w/ 500W ATX12V v2.0 Power Supply.  I was SOOO tempted to get the Corsair modular one, but meh.  This should do me okay, yes?
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive.  MIGHT bump this up to 400 GB or so.
ASUS M2N-E Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 Ultra MCP ATX AMD Motherboard.  Won't be going SLI for a couple three years or so. 
EVGA 512-P2-N635-AR GeForce 7950GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 KO Video Card
Kingston ValueRAM 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory .  I've heard that WinXP doesn't recognize past 2 GB.  True?  Or urban legend?  If NOT true, would it be worth it to jump up to 3 GB or even 4 GB?
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Windsor 2.2GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor.  Two questions:  Would I notice ANY difference between the 4200+ and 5000+?  And is it REALLY worth it to step up to the Intels? 

Added in a couple extra fans for good measure....

Couple things:
I won't be going SLI / Crossfire for AT LEAST 3 years. 
I won't be putting Vista on it for AT LEAST 2 years if I can help it.

Am I creating bottlenecks with any of the above setup? 

Thoughts on the above?

[Strazos]

Why are you going with AMD? Intel's e6600 is where it's at right now. Can also put you in line for a future Quad-Core upgrade.

[SnakeCharmer]

Why are you going with AMD? Intel's e6600 is where it's at right now. Can also put you in line for a future Quad-Core upgrade.

I've used AMD's for the last 4 or 5 comps, and I guess I'm comfortable(?) with them.  Never had one crap out on me.

Is it really worth the ~$350.00 more for the proc and comparable mobo?

Edit:  Besides, by the time the quad-cores come down in price (as well as games that take advantage of the tech), it'll basically be time to upgrade the whole system.  I rarely upgrade by component (with the exception of possibly adding a stick of RAM or vid card), and instead just wipe the slate clean and start over.  I've been lucky that I have not ever had a HD failure, a proc die, or any other catastrophic event.  I've never even had a stick of RAM die on me.

(Having said, that my computer is going to go boom any minute now)

[Strazos]

Well, you could step down to a e6400.

The systems built around a e6400/e6600 are pretty slick and sick.

[Trippy]

Antec PERFORMANCE TX TX1050B Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case w/ 500W ATX12V v2.0 Power Supply.  I was SOOO tempted to get the Corsair modular one, but meh.  This should do me okay, yes?

Unfortunately Newegg no longer sells the SLK3000B which is just a case without a power supply. If I had to get an Antec case in that price range and I didn't need an SLI power supply I'd go for the P150:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129166

It's a much quieter case design and a better, though lower total wattage, power supply. Of course having a quiet case doesn't help you a whole lot if you don't take steps to quiet the CPU and video card fans.

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive.  MIGHT bump this up to 400 GB or so.

Good drive.

ASUS M2N-E Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 Ultra MCP ATX AMD Motherboard.  Won't be going SLI for a couple three years or so.

Looks okay.

EVGA 512-P2-N635-AR GeForce 7950GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 KO Video Card

If you are going to spend that much on a video card you might want to consider the 8000 series like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133193

That'll give you full DirectX 10 support if you ever move to Vista unless you are going to get a new machine in two years again in which case it doesn't matter all that much though you might want to check out some benchmarks to see how they compare.

Kingston ValueRAM 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory .  I've heard that WinXP doesn't recognize past 2 GB.  True?  Or urban legend?  If NOT true, would it be worth it to jump up to 3 GB or even 4 GB?

WinXP recognizes up to 4 GB but depending on the situation any single app may only see 2 GB. If you are going the dual channel memory route it's better to buy a "kit" that has matching memory sticks. And that Kingston is quite expensive for being a single stick. I would get something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145590

or this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220144

if you wanted something with faster timings.

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Windsor 2.2GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor.  Two questions:  Would I notice ANY difference between the 4200+ and 5000+?  And is it REALLY worth it to step up to the Intels? 

AMD just cut the prices on the A64s so you might want to reprice them and move up a few places. The Intel Core is the better design at the moment but with the new price cuts the A64s may be competitive again when you compare price to performance (the Intel's are still better in terms of absolute performance). Also to take full advantage of your memory you need an A64 that has a clock speed evenly divisible by 400 though it's not that big a deal if you don't.

[Morfiend]

To tired to go in to it all right now. But price for performance, c2d is way better. Also, that Corsair modular PSU is awesome. Its got some killer reviews. Dont mess with SLi and stay away from 680i boards.

Thats a brief rundown.

[Trippy]

To tired to go in to it all right now. But price for performance, c2d is way better.

No:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=2963

Pricing is a major focus of the desktop CPU industry these days, and believe it or not, CPU prices will get even more competitive by the end of the year. Thanks to AMD's recent price cuts the Athlon 64 X2 line is finally competitive, across the board, with Intel's offerings. The Athlon 64 X2 6000+ is a realistic alternative to the E6600/E6400, the 5600+ competes well with the E6400/E6300 and the 5000+ can hold its own against the E6300/E4300. At these prices, you really can't go wrong with either AMD or Intel. If you want the absolutely highest performance, Intel is still your only option, but at the sub-$300 mark both companies are quite competitive.

Taking the Intel price cuts in two weeks into account the E6600 is still better than the 6000+ in price/performance but the 5600+ is competitive if not slightly ahead of the E6400.

[schild]

What's wrong with 680i boards, I was looking at this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131073

earlier tonight.

[Trippy]

What's wrong with 680i boards, I was looking at this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131073

earlier tonight.

What happened to the computer Cheddar was building for you? As for the 680i it has issues with the SATA part of the chipset on some motherboards:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/680i_hotfix.html

[schild]

Ok. So the Asus didn't. Cool.

[Trippy]

Ok. So the Asus didn't. Cool.

Yes. I would avoid all of the "Designed by NVIDIA" 680i motherboards (basically the 680i reference board design) even post BIOS update, though apparently the ASUS boards have other problems as well:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Nvidia-Still-Has-Some-Problems-with-680i-42944.shtml

[SnakeCharmer]

Unfortunately Newegg no longer sells the SLK3000B which is just a case without a power supply. If I had to get an Antec case in that price range and I didn't need an SLI power supply I'd go for the P150:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129166

It's a much quieter case design and a better, though lower total wattage, power supply. Of course having a quiet case doesn't help you a whole lot if you don't take steps to quiet the CPU and video card fans.

St00pid n00b question:  What steps can be taken to quiet down the CPU and vid card fans? 

I'm not married to Antec cases, just had good luck with them - well, mostly their power supplies - and decided to stay 'brand loyal', for whatever that's worth.  I figure if their PSU's are quality, then their cases should be?

If you are going to spend that much on a video card you might want to consider the 8000 series like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133193

That'll give you full DirectX 10 support if you ever move to Vista unless you are going to get a new machine in two years again in which case it doesn't matter all that much though you might want to check out some benchmarks to see how they compare.

In all honesty, I will probably just build a new machine in a 2-3 years, so the DX10 can wait.

WinXP recognizes up to 4 GB but depending on the situation any single app may only see 2 GB. If you are going the dual channel memory route it's better to buy a "kit" that has matching memory sticks. And that Kingston is quite expensive for being a single stick. I would get something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145590

or this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220144

if you wanted something with faster timings.

Hrm.  I thought I had linked to the dual sticks thing for $215.47.  Oh well.  So, worth it to go ahead and plug 3-4 gb in, or is 2 gb with xp completely sufficient?

AMD just cut the prices on the A64s so you might want to reprice them and move up a few places. The Intel Core is the better design at the moment but with the new price cuts the A64s may be competitive again when you compare price to performance (the Intel's are still better in terms of absolute performance). Also to take full advantage of your memory you need an A64 that has a clock speed evenly divisible by 400 though it's not that big a deal if you don't.

Interesting.  In layman's terms, why does it benefit to be evenly divisible by 400?

Thanks for the help!

[Trippy]

Unfortunately Newegg no longer sells the SLK3000B which is just a case without a power supply. If I had to get an Antec case in that price range and I didn't need an SLI power supply I'd go for the P150:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129166

It's a much quieter case design and a better, though lower total wattage, power supply. Of course having a quiet case doesn't help you a whole lot if you don't take steps to quiet the CPU and video card fans.

St00pid n00b question:  What steps can be taken to quiet down the CPU and vid card fans? 

Get a heatpipe CPU cooler that can fit a slow spinning mondo fan on it. Something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118019

or this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185038

Video card noise is harder to solve. Some come with a cooling design that's quieter than average. Some you can fit with a 3rd party cooling solution that may be quieter. This sort of design (not an NVIDIA card, just an example):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161059

tends to be more efficient than this sort of thing:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814122010

A quieter 3rd party cooler would be something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118001

or this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186002

but those require you to remove the stock cooler and install the new one yourself.

If you really want to learn how to build a "quiet" PC read http://silentpcreview.com.

I'm not married to Antec cases, just had good luck with them - well, mostly their power supplies - and decided to stay 'brand loyal', for whatever that's worth.  I figure if their PSU's are quality, then their cases should be?

I like their cases more than I do their power supplies but the NeoHE is good. The older SmartPower PSes were just okay. The newer type like the one that's included in the case you linked sounds better but it's still only one notch above the bottom of their PS line (only the Basiq line is lower).

Hrm.  I thought I had linked to the dual sticks thing for $215.47.  Oh well.  So, worth it to go ahead and plug 3-4 gb in, or is 2 gb with xp completely sufficient?

I'd stick with 2 GB for now.

AMD just cut the prices on the A64s so you might want to reprice them and move up a few places. The Intel Core is the better design at the moment but with the new price cuts the A64s may be competitive again when you compare price to performance (the Intel's are still better in terms of absolute performance). Also to take full advantage of your memory you need an A64 that has a clock speed evenly divisible by 400 though it's not that big a deal if you don't.

Interesting.  In layman's terms, why does it benefit to be evenly divisible by 400?

Just because :-D. If you really want to understand you can try reading this:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=8140.msg226969#msg226969

[Strazos]

Another quiet CPU cooling option: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835101002

[SnakeCharmer]

(snipped stuff about making a silent PC)

Good stuff. 

I like their cases more than I do their power supplies but the NeoHE is good. The older SmartPower PSes were just okay. The newer type like the one that's included in the case you linked sounds better but it's still only one notch above the bottom of their PS line (only the Basiq line is lower).

If I wasn't going to put my old PC to use in the garage, I would just cannabilize my old stuff from it (case and TruPower PSU).  Hm.  I must ponder this....

I'd stick with 2 GB for now.

Roger.  Adding more memory is always an easy and cheap upgrade later on, I suppose.

Just because :-D. If you really want to understand you can try reading this:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=8140.msg226969#msg226969

Heh.  To quote Kendrick "Head asplode" but I think I understood it.  I was looking for an excuse to go a bit higher on the proc, so looks like I'm going to order the AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Windsor 2.6GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor or the AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Brisbane 2.1GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor.

All things considered, am I really going to see any sort of noticable difference between the 5200+ with 2x1mb L2 cache versus the 4000+ with the 2x512kb L2 cache?

[Strazos]

Yeah...that's about a +20% increase in clock speed.

[Trippy]

All things considered, am I really going to see any sort of noticable difference between the 5200+ with 2x1mb L2 cache versus the 4000+ with the 2x512kb L2 cache?

Take a look at the AnandTech link I posted above. It doesn't benchmark those exact CPUs but you can extrapolate from the ones it does.

[Trippy]

Ixnay on the Zalman cooler I linked above:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118019

I just read the SPCR review here:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article727-page1.html

and you are better off getting its little brother:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118004

[SnakeCharmer]

Question about DX10....

Will you (or do you) have to have Vista to use it?

[Trippy]

Question about DX10....

Will you (or do you) have to have Vista to use it?

Yes.

[SnakeCharmer]

Was that always the case with DX9?  I *THINK* DX9 was usable with WIN98, yes?  Or am I smoking some serious crack?  Or has DX9 been out THAT long?

[Trippy]

Was that always the case with DX9?  I *THINK* DX9 was usable with WIN98, yes?  Or am I smoking some serious crack?  Or has DX9 been out THAT long?

DirectX 9 works with Windows 98 and was first released in 2002.

[Torinak]

DX10 is a "selling point" of Vista.  Once the majority of developers switch to it, you can either "upgrade" to Vista or give up PC gaming.  Gotta love progress!

[Stephen Zepp]

DX10 is a "selling point" of Vista.  Once the majority of developers switch to it, you can either "upgrade" to Vista or give up PC gaming.  Gotta love progress!

I have to admit, having to always stay backwards compatible really does limit tech advances. The things we're able to do with Torque X for example ("from scratch" engine) blows away using our main engine development line, simply because we could scrap backwards compatibility--both hardware and old customer projects.

I don't like Vista myself (at all tbh), but having heard the dev buzz around the shop regarding DX10, 2-3 years from now we'll never look back (at DX9).

[Sky]

I also like the way they are shedding the past with dx10. But I'm bummed about Vista (and EAX getting the shaft, though with Creative's longtime disdain for digital 5.1, I guess I should just say 'fuck 'em').

[Morfiend]

I want to upgrade to vista, I have a dx10 card, and I LOVE "ohh shiny" in my OSes. Just waiting for them to iron out the bugs a bit more.

[Jimbo]

So I got this 42" HDTV (8MS response time) that is just screaming for a new gaming system or new computer (would be 3rd one in the house).  I was thinking of building one like I have now with a dx9 system (AMD, 4GB ram, 2 SLI video cards 7950's, winXP PRO 64) for a pretty decent price.  But should I just wait a year, and build a dx10 machine with Vista?  I guess I could get an XBOX 360 and just run the cables down from one of my computers, but I want the XBOX that has all the bells and whistles...that or get the PS3...or maybe the Wii.

[schild]

42" HDTV and you'd get a Wii? Now, comeon.

Get a 360 elite in 3 weeks.

[Yegolev]

Depends on your budget, Jimbo, and what you like to play.  If you are into building a deskrocket like that, I'd guess you take PC games seriously so I'd suggest making that a priority, or the 360.  If you like all the crazy shit I like, I will suggest the PS3.  If you like party games and/or are bored with your various versions of Monopoly, get the Wii.