Anyone bought the Oblivion expansion yet?

[Riggswolfe]

I work for government and get paid by the month so I'm getting it next week. Anyone else have it or getting it?

[raydeen]

I'm tempted but will probably hold off due to the fact that I'm nowhere near completing the original game and I'd also rather wait for the inevitable uber-pack that they'll release at some point.

[Miasma]

I have it sitting on my desk but have not installed it yet, I want to do a few things in WoW before I become hopelessly addicted to Morrowind.  Man I hope I can find the disk I used to back up my characters.

[Yegolev]

Waiting on the patch.

[Bunk]

Too caught up in Jade Empire right now. Also, the whole issue of never getting past 10th level in Oblivion before I start over again...

[Signe]

Oh right, Oblivion.  I played it for a half hour and then promptly forgot about it.     It was the day I moved all my video game desktop icons into their own little folder.  NWN2 and Gothic III are in there, too... barely played. 

[WayAbvPar]

According to Xfire, I played it for 8 hours. I think I started over 3 or 4 times in those 8. I will probably go back and check it out someday, although some of the design decisions really irk me (scaling encounters so you have the same encounter all game long first and foremost).

[schild]

After I stopped playing Oblivion - which was for like a hardcore 30 or 40 hours - I realized how boring it was. Very MMO-ish in that respect. Which means, one day, I'll get bored and download it on XBL.

[Sky]

I found Oblivion pretty bland after my first play-through (didn't finish). When I built the new pc, I loaded it up and it was just 'bleh'. Bethsoft is making me sad panda with the series (I was a big fan of Arena and Daggerfall). If I ever finish Oblivion, I'll consider the additional stuff. I didn't finish Morrowind for strikingly similar reasons, though.

Meanwhile, I've finished Gothic 1 & 2 and 3 looks like more goodness. I find Oblivion way more boring and bland than mmo. I guess I could dick around with add-ons to remove a lot of the consolization, but it won't make the gameworld any more interesting.

[Morfiend]

I enjoyed Oblivion, after I got a mob for the crappy ass leveling system. I am planning on getting the xpac, but my characters are gone, so I hope the xpac lets me create already badass characters. I also hope all the good mobs work for it.

[Bunk]

(scaling encounters so you have the same encounter all game long first and foremost).

There are two different major mod packages out there that address that and a variety of other balance and gameplay issues. Do a search on the Elder Scrolls Oblivion Mods fourm for either OOO or Francesco.

A great source for Oblivion mods is actually here: http://canadianice.ufrealms.net/forum2/index.php
Much less spam and churn compared to the official boards.

There are replacemnent packages out there that have redone every texture in the game. Entire new cities added, new factions, companions, tons of new equipment and monsters. Hell, one group didn't like the fact that they made all the cities in to seperate zones in order to appease console memory - so they manually transplanted all the cities back in to the main game world (called the Open Cities mod).

[Calantus]

(scaling encounters so you have the same encounter all game long first and foremost).

There are two different major mod packages out there that address that and a variety of other balance and gameplay issues. Do a search on the Elder Scrolls Oblivion Mods fourm for either OOO or Francesco.

I've never been a fan of fixing a game via third party modifications. Additions are good, small fixes for bugs are fine too, but if the game is broken then the game is broken.

[grebo]

Cripey.  You can't please all the people all the time. 

I'll say it again.  You can't please all the people all the time.

Plenty of people like it broken... er, the way it ships...

Bethesda created the game to be easily moddable.  If you don't like the way something works, chances are there's a mod to make it better.

[schild]

If you don't like the way something works, chances are there's a better game out there.

Mods are not a reason to play a game. So sorry.

[Strazos]

Agreed. I refuse to ever give any Elder Scrolls game a chance ever again. I've found the past 2 games to be dreadfully boring.

[Tebonas]

Sometimes I get the feeling Bethesda uses the modability as an excuse for their own laziness.

I bought Knights of the Nine, didn't find my old savegame and had to play the Expansion with a new character. I had no problem at all, the Expansion was finished at Level five. While that is certainly practical, it feels like nothing in this game matters, neither level nor skills nor needed equipment, all scales for your character. That took me out of the game in such a way that I don't think I will buy the second expansion. The story itself is not THAT compelling in Elder Scrolls.

[Ironwood]

The prettier the Elder Scrolls become, the worse I find the actual game.

Sad but true.

[Azazel]

I found it interesting, but it didn't run that well on my machine. Slightly later, I found it boring, and played less. Then I stopped. I think it's uninstalled now. I'd have to check though. And yes, the default levelling system sucks royal arse.

[Dren]

I agree on it being boring.  I played the heck out of it for about 2 weeks before realizing it.  I stopped and never looked back.  Once I got my character to the level of enchanting weapons with crazy spells, nothing could stop me.  At that point, all I had was story, which was missing, and gameplay, which wasn't all that inspired.  I think I explored all the maps to satsify the explorer in me and then stopped playing.

I am sad that such a well engineered game had so little appeal.  It would be nice if somebody took that system and made something of it, but that never happens.  Oh well.

[Bunk]

If you don't like the way something works, chances are there's a better game out there.

Mods are not a reason to play a game. So sorry.

This is one thing shall respectfully decide to disagree with you on.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the assessment that the game should have been better. We are not talking about a situation where mods were needed to correct game crashing bugs though. We are talking about a game that came with tools easy enough to use that the modding community could change the general feel of the game to suit different playstyles. This is a good thing. It also doesn't hurt that its a very sandboxy game, which makes it easy to mix in new content and ideas.

They released the game tartgeted at the console crowd - which, lets face it, expects very linear progression in their RPGs. This was the biggest thing that disappointed the previous Elder Scrolls fans. So, the modders targeted that exact issue.

I love the fact that I can come back to the game every couple months and find something entirely new to play with from the community. On a similar note - I wouldn't be a fan of the Sims 2 without the modding either.

[Azazel]

I'll go along with that. The end experience is what matters. Games shouldnt need to be modded to be fun, by any means, but sometimes a mod will make the difference, or even be better than the original game. DC for example.

[Kitsune]

Now wait a second, here.  These mods exist primarily to adjust things to personal taste; they're hardly mandatory, and certainly shouldn't count against the game.  If the mods were written by players so the game wouldn't format their C drive or because monster AI was so bad that it kept walking into walls, then I'd agree with putting it down, but replacing the 'hand-drawn' map with a color one isn't addressing a failing of the game, it's tweaking aesthetics.  Same with the mods that alter the game's leveling mechanics and other rule sets.  You don't need them to play the game, the game works just fine as-is.  Some people just like the other system better, so they're free to toss in a mod to make it so.

It's as if a mod came out to make WoW into a skill-based leveling game.  Rather than people saying, 'Those fuckers at Blizzard, I have to mod their game to play it like I want!', maybe they should be glad that Blizzard put mod support in the game to let enterprising players change it.

[Calantus]

I'm not going to say that Oblivion is broken at the core, well no, I will say that, but I will concede that you could actually like the broken bits. The advancement system and leveled loot/mobs kills the game for me though, and I've never been comfortable with fundamentally changing the core game systems. Adding new shit, putting in new little rules or tweaks or bug fixes are fine for me, but changing the core just isn't my bag. The game ships with the system it's got and that's that, if it doesn't appeal to me I'm not going to mod it into a game I would like (exceptions are total conversion mods as I treat them like a new game). Maybe that's crazy, but I can just load up another game and play something that I like as shipped instead.

[NowhereMan]

I don't know, you could claim that the game they shipped isn't one you like but if they've provided people the tools to make it better I don't see how that provides a massive strike against it. I can see the whole point that if games like this all do well it could encourage developers to half ass all the gameplay elements for their games and just leave that to the fans but I'm not convinced that's what happened. I think it's far more likely the developers took the game in a direction they wanted to on the grounds that fans who really didn't like it could change it if they wanted to. I'll admit I think that the levelling system and the auto-leveling mobs is sucky but I don't see the issue with a mod that alters those for me.

That and, yeah, a lot of mods are just aesthetic things like the maps or making the armour you get at the end look uber awesome. Or even something as simple as making arrows lighter so you don't need to think about how many you're carrying or whether you'll be able to get loot as well.

[Sky]

Now wait a second, here.  These mods exist primarily to adjust things to personal taste; they're hardly mandatory, and certainly shouldn't count against the game.  If the mods were written by players so the game wouldn't format their C drive or because monster AI was so bad that it kept walking into walls, then I'd agree with putting it down, but replacing the 'hand-drawn' map with a color one isn't addressing a failing of the game, it's tweaking aesthetics.  Same with the mods that alter the game's leveling mechanics and other rule sets.  You don't need them to play the game, the game works just fine as-is.  Some people just like the other system better, so they're free to toss in a mod to make it so.

But that's the point. Some of us have been fans of the series for over ten years and the core gameplay is suffering. If I have to use a mod to remove the consolization and make the game enjoyable (mob scaling for instance), then it's a pretty crappy game. I had to download patches for Daggerfall, sure. But that bug-ridden game was so much better than the more polished MW and Oblivion. Maybe Oblivion is great after you've hunted down and installed a gaggle of mods. I didn't pay $$ to then have to waste my time finding ways to make the game not suck because the developer is more interested in console $$ than in continuing to improve their franchise in ways that don't involve the graphics card.

No, after all this time, Bethsoft is officially dead to me. That makes me sad, my favorite dev houses are all but gone, now.

[Bunk]

I think the big point for me here is that Oblivion is a somewhat consolized game that was rather quickly modded to remove all of the various consoley issues. It doesn't mean I'm not mad at them for consoling it, I am. Let's look at another title that was consolized in comparison though - Deus Ex. No amount of modding is ever going to bring that game above smoldering monkey turd status.

[Riggswolfe]

But that's the point. Some of us have been fans of the series for over ten years and the core gameplay is suffering. If I have to use a mod to remove the consolization and make the game enjoyable (mob scaling for instance), then it's a pretty crappy game.

All this consolization stuff is bullshit. Mob scaling, and quests with better directions have nothing to do with consoles. They are responses to player complaints that Morrowind quests weren't very well guided, and that travel time took forever. Mob scaling was due to complaints that after awhile the games got to easy.

The only console tweak is how the menus work. That's a legitimate gripe for PC users, but blaming consoles for mob scaling and quest guidance is beyond stupid.

[Strazos]

I'm of the mind that if I don't like the game to begin with, I'm not going to be interested in hunting down mods that will possibly make the game fun for me.

Then again, I don't really mess with mods in any games to begin with.

[Calantus]

I don't know, you could claim that the game they shipped isn't one you like but if they've provided people the tools to make it better I don't see how that provides a massive strike against it.

Oh I have nothing against mods, I just think that a bad game (for me) is a bad game, whether or not mods exist to remove that which made it a bad game.

Bad Game + Mods = Bad Game + Mods

Instead of:

Bad Game + Mods = Good Game

[Azazel]

Not to derail the already-derailed thread, but whet did people here think of Dark Messiah of Might and Magic? I know there's a lot of love for HoMM around here, so as far as fantasy FPS/RPGs go, there's got to be something better than Oblivion out there..

[NowhereMan]

I found it to be more of a fantasy FPS though that could just be some inherent bias based on the fact that it's really pretty fast paced for an RPG. Patched with most of the bugs out I thought it was fun and certainly (especially with multi player) provided enough entertainment for the price. I'm not sure how I'd compare it to Oblivion, I guess it's a lot more in the action range than RPG.

[Azazel]

Does it still have the looting/buying/selling/equipment upgrade features of most diku's RPGs? And how linear is it? Standard-FPS linear or, say, Diablo linear?

[NiX]

Dusting off my copy of Oblivion to try the new expansion. Any suggestions for mods? I know there were a few that made the inventory and such look a hell of a lot less cluttered.

[NowhereMan]

It's got equipment but no selling buying at all. You find stuff lying about (usually in chests, secret areas, etc.) and either keep your gear or replace it. You also get all the standard stuff carried by enemies you can take. Plot line is fairly linear, there's some choice towards the end but apart from that it comes down to whether you choose to do the odd side quest or not. Combat is really good fun but the game doesn't do much more than that, if you want something faster paced than Oblivion and arguably more hack n' slash fun, it's a good choice just be aware that there's not much more to it.

That said triggering a trap and landing a massive stone column on top of a gang of skeletons is really satisfying.

[Morfiend]

Oh I have nothing against mods, I just think that a bad game (for me) is a bad game, whether or not mods exist to remove that which made it a bad game.

Bad Game + Mods = Bad Game + Mods

Instead of:

Bad Game + Mods = Good Game

Except that wasnt true in Oblivions case. I bought the game, cause I like the Elder Scrolls games. The leveling was stupid, and easilly lead to gimping yourself, and the mob scaling was stupid, you could beat the entire game at level 2 if you wanted, and that just felt wrong.

I spent 10 minutes searching, found 2 mods, one that fixed each thing. Boom. Its the game I wanted. Yeah, it sucks that the game shipped with those bad design choices, but 10 minutes of searching for mods, and I have the game I wanted. I proceeded to have a great time playing the game, and actually finished it.