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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: "Rethinking the MMO" article on GamaSutra 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: "Rethinking the MMO" article on GamaSutra  (Read 5215 times)
Hutch
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Posts: 1893


on: March 26, 2007, 02:04:02 PM

Found this on slashdot.

Gamasutra article by Neil Sorens

Not finished reading it yet.

From the article: "Neil Sorens is the CEO of Dancing Robot Studios, where has worked with clients on more than a dozen titles of various genres for both handheld and console systems." So he's not actually an MMO dev.

Apologies if it's already been posted. I searched on Gamasutra and Sorens and didn't find it.

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shiznitz
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Posts: 4268

the plural of mangina


Reply #1 on: March 26, 2007, 02:13:31 PM

Reading it now, but I disagree with

Quote
Fifteen years ago, the central gameplay mechanic in popular adventure games like King's Quest was brute-force puzzle-solving, with a heavy helping of instant death by trial-and-error. Despite the crude and frustrating gameplay, these games sold very well because they offered better graphics and storylines than games in other genres did at the time. As other games began to offer those same compelling features and combine them with more palatable gameplay mechanics, the adventure game genre became a niche market.

The mechanics had nothing to do with it. The puzzles just became the same eventually, so storytelling ruled the day (Grim Fandango, Sanitarium) and good storytelling is hard.

I have never played WoW.
Woody
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Reply #2 on: March 26, 2007, 03:16:15 PM

I agree with some of his ideas, but I still have a problem with guys like him who insist MMOGs become essentially single player games that you pay monthly for.  The "every man" MMOG can't exist, you make it too simple or easy to play and you end up with kids only, make it too much of a spreadsheet and you only get die hards. 

Have there always been people who want the trendy game type to morph into something else or are these just popping up with MMOGs?  I can't imagine too many people sat around during Doom's hayday writing articles on how it should be more like Myst to make it more fun for middle aged gamers.
JoeTF
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Posts: 657


Reply #3 on: March 26, 2007, 03:29:09 PM

First and foremost, character advancement and achievements is why people pay 15$/month for mmorpgs. Without those, it's just another free CS/Quake. Suggesting throw it out of window by prioritizing fun will not get you paid.

Second, I believe that time-played dependency is one of biggest of mmorpgs. In real world we are limited by our mental and manual skills, connections and place of birth. In mmorpg, you can really be that super-hero if you just put enough time and effort into it. It's also easier than in real life (becoming a raid/guild leader vs. project lead).

Those two also kill the idea of making combat more luck and skill dependent - as Guild Wars proved 1% most most gifted will win all the time, while rest gets to eat the dust no matter how much effort and time they put into their play. You cannot have achievement an illusion of equal chances without time-based grind.

To sum up: Yes you can make game he described. It much more expansive and it won't be mmorpg (more like online single player game).  The real challenge will be getting people to pay for it.
HRose
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Reply #4 on: March 26, 2007, 04:27:24 PM

First and foremost, character advancement and achievements is why people pay 15$/month for mmorpgs.
Call it persistence.

-HRose / Abalieno
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Venkman
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Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 05:46:55 PM

Nothing that hasn't been said before while flying in the face of the obvious truth that the market actually likes this stuff or it wouldn't have doubled in size last year.

Plus I hate when people wontonly invent acronyms so they can make an article their own. Who's ever going to use "PEG" again.

It's nice to see an expose on the travesty of sameness that is popular MMOs, and it's probably a good article for the Gamasutra set that may not be living this stuff hourly. But in the end you can't solve the problems using RPG conventions. And if you want truly engaging games, you need to find some way to shift away from the reliance on loot and time-based advancement.

Those alternatives exist, but nobody's figured out how to monetize them as effectively as diku.
Krakrok
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Reply #6 on: March 26, 2007, 10:35:15 PM

as Guild Wars proved 1% most most gifted will win all the time, while rest gets to eat the dust no matter how much effort and time they put into their play.

Guild Wars proved everyone can win 25% of the time.
Margalis
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Reply #7 on: March 26, 2007, 11:20:41 PM

Most of the article was just common sense and things that have been said here 1000 times.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
schild
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Reply #8 on: March 27, 2007, 04:10:14 AM

There was an article guest-written on some site by a developer that basically said what I said in an article talking about previews and how they're a plague on the industry. My article came out nearly a year ago. Shortly after that, another journo wrote an article that may have well as plagiarized mine. Now fast forward to now, a developer says that shit and BAM, it's all over websites across the net.

So, what do I say to comments like "things that have been said here a thousand times?"

No one wants to admit we've ever been right about anything. Hell, no developer wants to admit ANY website has ever been right about anything, as they know they can say the same thing in an interview or article and it'll actually hold some weight.

This industry is broken.
Faust
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Reply #9 on: March 27, 2007, 09:15:52 AM

This industry is broken.

OMG!  I whined about that in an article in 1993!!

Kin Rha
DataGod
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Reply #10 on: March 27, 2007, 01:03:23 PM

I am so much more punk rock than f13!  j/k :)

Interesting article but mostly a *yawn*

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