Why I can't take organized religion seriously #1001001SOS

[bhodi]

I'll be opening a new store called "Give your fat to me!" -- it's easy.. we transfer fat from you to me for a nominal cost so that we can both live normal lives.

[Dren]

It has been awhile, but the last time I looked into what made the BMI tick was pure statistics.  They basically take all the deaths and look at their weight and height.  They found that people live longer on average when they weigh less.  That's it.  Nothing more technical than that.

It doesn't take into account your muscle mass, your lifestyle, your race, your life quality.  You could be a 90 year old man weighing 132 lbs. at 6'0" for the last 30 years of your life not able to hardly lift a pencil, but when you die the BMI will state, "See he lived for a long time and he was very light!"

The BMI is very misleading, but as with any public information they keep it dumb because most people just want to be told what to do.  The reasoning behind it is unnecessary to them.  Tell them a goal and they'll fast and exercise towards it without question.

That gets a lot of people into trouble.  Body fat percentage is a much better guide.  Use it if you need to.  To me, it is about life quality.  If you feel that you are missing out on things in life that you wished you could do because of your weight/health, then work on fixing that.  It is about enjoying the life you have while you have it.

I'm not going to starve myself everyday to look like a skeleton and miss out on activities because I'm always busy working out (my brother-in-law is like this now.)  I'm not going to do that just so I can stay in the nursing home an extra 5 years at the end of my life.  Is that really my reward?!  I figure if I keep my body in a shape that pleases myself and my wife and allows me to play with my kids to my fullest, I'm doing well.  If I can keep my bloodwork in the "AOK" range so I don't run into any early life disasters, I'm doing great.

I'd rather live this way to 70 than live like the BMI wants me to so I can reach 80.  I eat modestly and excercise around 8-10 hours a week.  I'm satisfied with that schedule and with my health as it is.

[voodoolily]

BMI is being used in some public schools (in Arkansas?) to track childhood obesity. In this case I think it's a very effective tool because children don't have a huge range of bone densities and muscle mass like adults do. The main problem with using it as an adult is that most people use the cheat-calculator by just dividing their weight by height and multiply by some number instead of measuring everything you're supposed to, like wrist circumference, forearm length, etc. to account for one's frame. I weigh more than many women my height and dress size but I have a pretty Teutonic build, and will always be heavier than I look. If I stay within my healthy BMI range, I tend to look a bit thinner than others with the same BMI because I have more muscle and thicker bones.

But yeah, body fat % is most effective, it's just more time consuming to take a Vernier caliper to 5 different body parts than to do simple math.

Tell them a goal and they'll fast and exercise towards it without question.

Naw, people just get a gastric band so they don't hafta to get off their fat asses and actually move. And they only even do that when a doctor says "if you don't lose weight you will die".

[Nebu]

I'd rather live this way to 70 than live like the BMI wants me to so I can reach 80. 

We'll see what you think when you're 70.  I watched my father die last year from right side heart failure due mostly to a life of smoking, poor diet, and a lack of exercise.  He wasn't content at all with the decisions he had made.  I'm certain that, barring a tragedy, he would have lived at least another 5-10 years had he taken even slightly better care of himself.   

Edit: You sound like you lead a healthy life so I wasn't really directing this at you so much as the statement itself.  I hear the same thing from many people and it's just plain untrue for the majority of them.  It's my opinion that most Americans could do a lot to improve their quality of life just by cutting back a tiny bit and learning to get some exercise at least 3x a week.  Seems like an investment in the future rather than a major lifestyle change. 

[Strazos]

The problem is that exercise for its own sake, for some people, can be really, really boring.

[bhodi]

The problem is that exercise for its own sake, for some people, can be really, really boring.

It is for me. I hate the gym. Fortunately, I love rock climbing.

[Paelos]

The problem is that exercise for its own sake, for some people, can be really, really boring.

What are you saying here? Personal health isn't supposed to be a dance around the Maypole. Cutting a television show out of your day to move off your ass, and eating one less fast food meal a week isn't asking a lot to add another 5 years to your life. Hell, just walk. Doctors are actually having to convince Americans just to use their legs. It's embarrassing.

[Merusk]

There's all kinds of activities that get you the required amount of exercise.  If you find ALL of them boring, well then crap, your genes were flawed and needed to be expunged.

Hell, even working out in your yard for an hour or three is more exercise than some folks get in a year.

[Selby]

The problem is that exercise for its own sake, for some people, can be really, really boring.

Hell yeah it is.  That's why I game for one hour while I ride the stationary bike for 16 miles.  Passes the time and I don't feel so bad about grinding since I'm technically multi-tasking and helping my heart\weight out at the same time.

[stray]

6' and 203 lbs I'm off the chart. When he realizes that I'm about 8% body fat, he usually corrects his statement.

I never imagined you being built like that. Good job, man :).

I'm the same weight as you, but 4" taller. Not sure about body fat %, but I'm working on losing about 10-15 lbs of it. Getting soft around the edges. From there, I'll reshape a bit, but I don't care to get bigger. I'd like to remain skinny, but muscular. Heh, if I had an ultimate goal, it'd be Bruce Lee -- But I don't how the hell he did that.

[Strazos]

Maybe I'm a bit of a hedonist, but if there's something that I really don't want to do, and I don't have a compelling reason to do it...chances are that I won't.

Like weightlifting. Yeah, I get that some people get some kind of enjoyment out of it. Bores me to tears, so until I have a reason to do it, I won't. And walk? Walk where, around the block? Pass (and don't you dare say walk to...anywhere; there's nowhere to walk to). I'd rather pass the time by...well, suffice to say I'd rather do absolutely nothing. I'm stubborn like that.

Maybe you guys are different I suppose....I've always been athletic, but never an athlete; organized sports were far too much of a bother to deal with (though to be fair, none of my schools ever had a hockey team, so I guess I'm being a bit disingenuous with that statement).

[bhodi]

There's only one reason people go to the gym:

They want to look good naked.

I think it's an admirable reason.

[stray]

Maintaining yourself should be good enough reason. Your body is a machine, and the only thing you truly own at that. If you don't care to keep it in at least workable shape, then you're worse than a guy who buys an Enzo and uses it as a porta-potty.

No one says you have to be perfect or anything, but just plain fucking movement should be something you should aspire to at the very least. Very few are going to reach the peak of physical fitness (at least I know it's something I fail at). We all have something to work on. But I find it sickening that someone can't even mentally want it. That's just a terrible attitude.


[EDIT] Must. Appeal. To. Strazos'. Inner. Spartan.

[Samwise]

Personal health isn't supposed to be a dance around the Maypole.

Dancing around a Maypole isn't exactly a dance around the Maypole either.  That sort of thing used to be how I got the majority of my aerobic exercise, until I fucked up my knee doing it.     I've gained about ten pounds since then.  Sucks.

[Strazos]

Apathy is easy.

Also:

Bores me to tears, so until I have a reason to do it, I won't.

Incidentally, that time is, hopefully, fast approaching. A few months at the most. But that's beside the point. Point being:

But I find it sickening that someone can't even mentally want it. That's just a terrible attitude.

[EDIT] Must. Appeal. To. Strazos'. Inner. Spartan.

I won't care until given a reason to do so. Sorry.

EDIT: And in a sorry attempt to put this thread back towards the original topic, I could say the exact same thing about religion.

[stray]

Just the simple fact that you even have a body is reason enough.

[Samwise]

Stray, you should know better by now than to get riled up when Straz says silly things.  It's what he does.

[Endie]

There's only one reason people go to the gym:

They want to look good naked.

I think it's an admirable reason.

No, the one god reason is:

They want to look like they would look good naked.

By the time it's verified or disproved, the hard part is over (fnarr, snurk...).

[Merusk]

I won't care until given a reason to do so. Sorry.

EDIT: And in a sorry attempt to put this thread back towards the original topic, I could say the exact same thing about religion.

Funny thing about both: by the time you have 'a reason' it's too late, the damage has been done.

[Endie]

I won't care until given a reason to do so. Sorry.

EDIT: And in a sorry attempt to put this thread back towards the original topic, I could say the exact same thing about religion.

Funny thing about both: by the time you have 'a reason' it's too late, the damage has been done.

At least with Voltaire's precautionary principle, both of their negative outcomes are easily avoided, at little cost, by keeping on the safe side and taking some care.

[Riggswolfe]

We'll see what you think when you're 70. 

Not to be disrespectful or anything but yeah, 70 is about right for me. Honestly, I've seen old men and women, and some, like my grandmother are very healthy and active. Some like my other grandmother are feebly holding on to what little is left to them. I'd rather die suddenly of a heart attack at 70 than be feeble and in pain at 80 and asking God to kill me. (which if he exists, he won't because of my attitude at my current age.)

I basically live by the whole Dennis Leary ideal "Smoking takes ten years off your life. Well it's the ten worst years, isn't it folks? It's the ones at the end! It's the wheelchair, kidney dialysis, adult diaper fucking years. You can have those years! We don't want 'em, alright?"

While he was being a smart ass and talking about cigarettes it is pretty much my view. Now, I'm trying to lose weight and exercise but not so I'll live 10 more years, but so that the years I'm living now will be better.

[Dren]

I'd rather live this way to 70 than live like the BMI wants me to so I can reach 80. 

We'll see what you think when you're 70.  I watched my father die last year from right side heart failure due mostly to a life of smoking, poor diet, and a lack of exercise.  He wasn't content at all with the decisions he had made.  I'm certain that, barring a tragedy, he would have lived at least another 5-10 years had he taken even slightly better care of himself.   

Edit: You sound like you lead a healthy life so I wasn't really directing this at you so much as the statement itself.  I hear the same thing from many people and it's just plain untrue for the majority of them.  It's my opinion that most Americans could do a lot to improve their quality of life just by cutting back a tiny bit and learning to get some exercise at least 3x a week.  Seems like an investment in the future rather than a major lifestyle change. 

Well, what I meant was being healthy and having a good quality of life to 70 rather than being really skinny, weak, and on years of bedrest until 80.  If I die at 70 while still healthy and active, I'll be happy with that.

My goal is to be healthy right up to the point I die.  I believe it is entirely possible and an admirable way to exit this world.  Yes, dieing in the hospital like your father did (no disrespect intended,) is not my idea of the best, but I avoid all those things he did too for that reason.

My only vice is drinking beer and I only do that to the level that actually is reported to be healthy.  Very moderate.  I only drink "good" beer or my own homebrew (which can be good.)  So that keeps my consumption to a minimum from cost and slow production (homebrew.)  :-D  

Moderate for me = 1 12 oz. bottle per night on average.

[Murgos]

Heh, if I had an ultimate goal, it'd be Bruce Lee -- But I don't how the hell he did that.

8 to 12 hours a day of intermittent bursts of intense physical activity would be my guess.

[Ironwood]

Heh, if I had an ultimate goal, it'd be Bruce Lee -- But I don't how the hell he did that.

You mean the mysterious dying and becoming his own conspiracy theory ?  That's a hell of a goal.

[Endie]

We'll see what you think when you're 70. 

I basically live by the whole Dennis Leary ideal "Smoking takes ten years off your life. Well it's the ten worst years, isn't it folks? It's the ones at the end! It's the wheelchair, kidney dialysis, adult diaper fucking years. You can have those years! We don't want 'em, alright?"

Trouble is, most people don't die of nothing.  You stil get the shitty years of ill-health where you and the world know you're dying.  If your lifestyle is crap then you just get them ten years earlier.  Don't exercise?  Eat crappy food?  Be a lardass?  Sure, but it just means you get late-onset diabetes earlier.  Or you have trouble walking up hills without taking a dozen stops a decade earlier than it would have been otherwise.  And I'll bet by then you're a bit less keen to have God strike you down with a heart-attack tomorrow than you are to have it happen a couple of decades later.

[HaemishM]

You want exercise? Get a big-ass inside dog, like my Snow Beast. Either you'll live in a shitpiled, pee-infested warren, or you'll get a half-mile worth of walking a day taking the beast out. It's fun for everyone and gets your heart pumping. The heart pumping may be from fear that this monster of a dog will drag you under the wheels of a passing semi, but still, the blood is GOING.

[Riggswolfe]

Trouble is, most people don't die of nothing.  You stil get the shitty years of ill-health where you and the world know you're dying.  If your lifestyle is crap then you just get them ten years earlier.  Don't exercise?  Eat crappy food?  Be a lardass?  Sure, but it just means you get late-onset diabetes earlier.  Or you have trouble walking up hills without taking a dozen stops a decade earlier than it would have been otherwise.  And I'll bet by then you're a bit less keen to have God strike you down with a heart-attack tomorrow than you are to have it happen a couple of decades later.

Well, I think a quote from my own post pretty much sums it up:

I'm trying to lose weight and exercise but not so I'll live 10 more years, but so that the years I'm living now will be better.

Which is somewhat what you're talking about anyway. I may just be cynical. Men in my family rarely make it past 65. My dad jokes it's the stress caused by the women in the family that kills them.

[Endie]

You want exercise? Get a big-ass inside dog, like my Snow Beast. Either you'll live in a shitpiled, pee-infested warren, or you'll get a half-mile worth of walking a day taking the beast out. It's fun for everyone and gets your heart pumping. The heart pumping may be from fear that this monster of a dog will drag you under the wheels of a passing semi, but still, the blood is GOING.

Too right.  I got two border collies.  If I ever stop doing several miles a day (and up to 20 or so on weekend days when I can) with them they'll stop being delightful, obedient hounds and become hyper, neurotic bundles of unused energy.

Edit: Riggs, that's true enough and a good motivation: it was more the Leary bit that I thought was thoughtless bravado (on his part).

[Sky]

Another easy way to get exercise without exercising at a gym is stairs. I really want at least a two-story house (the stairs to my room as a kid were basically a ladder), don't take the elevator, get an upstairs office if you can (I've added about 15lbs since I moved down here :( ).

[stray]

Heh, if I had an ultimate goal, it'd be Bruce Lee -- But I don't how the hell he did that.

8 to 12 hours a day of intermittent bursts of intense physical activity would be my guess.

Apparently (from what I can tell), he had an "every other day" weight training routine, and just incorporated cardio-vascular during martials arts training on the other days.

He seemed to be pretty intense about curls and situps though. Heh.

"He was always using that dumbbell," recalls Linda in looking back on her husband's training habits. "Bruce had the unique ability to be able to several things at once. It wasn't all unusual for me to find him watching a boxing match on TV, simultaneously performing a full side splits, while reading a book in one hand and pumping a dumbbell in the other."

Chuck Norris has gone on record recalling the time that he went to visit the Lee family and seeing Bruce lying on the living room floor bouncing his son Brandon on his abdomen while simultaneously performing dumbbell flyes for his pecs and leg raises for his abs - and watching television to boot!

[EDIT] It's that cobra like physique that I find awesome though. Seems like his back and laterals were some of the few areas where he really tried to bulk up. Without them, he'd probably look like any other slim, well toned athelete.

[Selby]

I won't care until given a reason to do so. Sorry.

I got tired of looking at the fat one staring back in the mirror at me.  When you can't see your toes easily and the belly button just kinda vanishes one day, you tend to take it seriously.  300lbs and getting winded going up the stairs?  Not for me anymore.  Having my video games at the exercise station just makes it that much more enjoyable.  It's almost like a job at times, but I enjoy the results (none of my old pants fit anymore, went down to a 30" waist from a 38").

Everyone has to find their own motivation.  I had several reasons for doing it, one of which is shared above.  It's up to you to determine whether you want it or not.  No judgement here on whether you should or not.

[Sky]

That Bruce post was my motivation when I was really into working out. I was wicked wiry, couldn't gain muscle mass, so I concentrated on my back (which got a lot of work as I unloaded trucks anyway), for that 'cobra effect'. It was cool.

For me now, it's just a question of finding time. When I was single and not playing guitar, I had plenty of free time to work out. Now it's tough to find time to enjoy my hobbies at all.

[Righ]

Bruce Lee thinks you're all wankers.

[Yegolev]

I go to the gym for two main reasons.  I'd like to postpone the heart attack for as long as possible, and it gives me a reason to stare into space and evacuate my brain for 30-60 minutes.

[Endie]

I go to the gym for two main reasons.  I'd like to postpone the heart attack for as long as possible, and it gives me a reason to stare into space and evacuate my brain for 30-60 minutes.

I wish I could do that.  When I'm playing rugby or football or the like then time fies: I can easily burn 800+ calories in 80 minutes and never be bored.  I hate the gym: even though I'm burning roughly the same number of calories, it seems hard, because I am so very, very bored.  iPod, television, nothing helps.  When I'm out walking in the mountains, my mind is clear and I can go for an hour without considering how steep the hill is.  Running machines just seem calculated to stop me thinking about anything but when I can do something else.  I envy you.