AoE damage and City of Blasters

[jpark]

I believe along with my mates that AoE damage rules this game - giving any class with this powerset great advantages.  Blasters are obvious - they are simply out of balance in relation to other classes.  As a healer (33 Empathy), I can actually have a blaster tank some of my missions - his damage output is just that strong.

Recently we have been using AoE damage for melees using the Spines power set (scrapper) as "Grind" has already posted.  Anyway, I thought this comment on the CoH boards is on the money about why the AoE / Blaster issue will not change:

"This is why they won't change anything. This game is a self-described 'entry level' massively multi-player game and they've eliminated a lot of the intricacies (trade skills, economy, etc) to make this a very noob friendly game. The guys who want to play blasters and mindlessly mash buttons for huge exp? They want these guys in the game, it's more money. The game is targetted at younger people as well, so gumming up the works with.. eww.. balance.. won't let kids have fun with their blasters. They don't want them to require strategy and teamwork. "

The more blasters you have in a group the less relevant other classes are.  I still enjoy the game, but i am hoping for tougher combats requiring real healing and tanking and crowd control to address this point.

[AOFanboi]

The imbalance and utter simplicity was the reason I canceled; it's basically ToonTown without the fishing or other subgames.

It's EVE and AC1 for me now.

[Mesozoic]

I don't see it as an entry-level game* and I don't think of it as "n00b friendly," per se.  N00b Friendly games don't have intricate character development that makes even veterans restart their characters several times.  Nor is there anything about tradeskills or an economy that would have made the game n00b-hostile, so I don't see their exclusion as pandering to some 12-y/o demographic.   What the quoted player sees as simplified, I see as focused.

And if Cryptic wanted button mashing-power characters as a rule, then that playstyle would not have been limited to two (3 if you count ice) blaster types and one scrapper.   Clearly, if they foresaw that playstyle dominating, then more (if not all) of the ATs would have had that capability.  No one sets out to make classes/ATs that suck.  Its a waste of time.   So I think its safe to assume that the players showed the devs a flaw in the game's character balance - just like, ya know, pretty much every other game out there.

In short, the quoted player is mad and chooses to see a conspiracy against him and his preferred AT, rather than simply see the development mistake.  Then he haphazardly speculates that Cryptic won't do anything** and, typically, blames things like "the bottom line" and probably "the suits."  Ironically, his rant seems to be aimed at 12-year olds.


(* At least not any more than any other MMO is trying to be accessible to first-timers to the genre)
(** In fact Statesman posted that Devices is due for a nerf.)

[jpark]

What the quoted player sees as simplified, I see as focused.

In general I agree with you - on this specific point I am not so sure.

And if Cryptic wanted button mashing-power characters as a rule, then that playstyle would not have been limited to two (3 if you count ice) blaster types and one scrapper.   Clearly, if they foresaw that playstyle dominating, then more (if not all) of the ATs would have had that capability.  No one sets out to make classes/ATs that suck.  Its a waste of time.   So I think its safe to assume that the players showed the devs a flaw in the game's character balance - just like, ya know, pretty much every other game out there.

You'r probably right, and until recently I would have thought this to be self evident.  Now it is not so self evident to me.  I play a group dependent class - knowing full well there are easier paths.  I don't seem to be alone in this play style - so arguably you could say Cryptic has successfully targeted two segments: those who want no holds barred soloing and those who like to interact with others even if that means forfeiting comparative balance.

Milestones to this argument:

1.  Will the next feature update in the fall give us tougher scenarious requiring some actual strategy in group combat?
2.  Will AoE damage be adjusted to encourage more strategy and balance across classes?

EDIT:  I understand Cryptic is working on it - I will be very interested to see what their tradeskill / economic framework turns out ot be.

[Phred]

They recently said they are upping minion hp a lot past 30, which will directly target aoe damage. They also claim they will up the exp for those minions but time will tell. They seem to be ignoring how much this will hurt low damage soloing at's like defenders and a few controllers.

The quoted poster is just being pissy. It actually takes some basic thinking to line up a group of mobs for a cone ae in order to manage to get a significant number of them in the hit cone, so it's far from the mindless button mashing he wishes it was. I switched to a fire/dev blaster after getting totally bored with my scrapper post 35 and it's not quite as easy as the forum morons make it out, though smoke grenade definately needs a nerf. Once you get to SO slotting your ae powers you can almost take out a group of even minions with the cone followed by fireball, the only two ae that fire gets. The area of the blast on trip mine is kind of small I found, and tends to blow mobs out of range for a good cone shot so it's a mixed bag using it. It does do high damage though, though I never got far enough to slot it up. I still am somewhat dubious on claims of soloing large groups of +4 including bosses and lt's. I know I sure couldn't do that kind of damage fast enough to take anything more than +2 down and even then I had to run away a lot from the stragglers.

The most fun I had with that blaster was organizing and teaching people how to do ae groups at lower levels when my powers weren't slotted with enough damage to solo effectively. The fact that the purple patch has pretty well made large groups the least effective way to play was a lot of the reason I let my subscription drop. I like playing with large groups of people, and my supergroup became a ghost town in the two to three weeks I was a member so I guess a lot of people burned out fast.

[HaemishM]

If one of the stated goals of the game is that combat should be fast, furious and involving lots of mobs attacking the players, doesn't it stand to reason that AOE damage would rule the roost? Maybe it's out of whack, but again, I saw a lot of people play blasters just because it was the fastest, most efficient means possible to level.

What makes me giggle about that is that these are the people who burn through content then bitch, whine and complain when there is nothing more to do at level 50. Well, duh shithead, you just blasted through the game on easy, thanks for missing the point, you drooloron.

[Shockeye]

Well, duh shithead, you just blasted through the game on easy, thanks for missing the point, you drooloron.

Can you submit a definition for "drooloron", please? It seems Urban Dictionary is lacking in that word.

[kaid]

Frankly the aoe blasters don't hurt my game play at all. I will just continue to group my force field defender with my friends tank and her dads controller and we will continue to have a blast.


Kaid

[Phred]

What makes me giggle about that is that these are the people who burn through content then bitch, whine and complain when there is nothing more to do at level 50. Well, duh shithead, you just blasted through the game on easy, thanks for missing the point, you drooloron.

I used to love to ask in broadcast what kind of moron would want to be powerleveled in a game with no end game when someone was begging to be powerleveled in zones I was in.

Unfortunately, at least for me, the only real fun in the game was being able to try out new powers as I leveled, so when the pace of new powers slowed down and the experience curve went ballistic I ran out of fun.

[CmdrSlack]

Well, duh shithead, you just blasted through the game on easy, thanks for missing the point, you drooloron.

Can you submit a definition for "drooloron", please? It seems Urban Dictionary is lacking in that word.

I'm guessing it's a fusion of "drooling" and "moron."

[HaemishM]

Yes, it's my attempt at witty. Stretch it out longways and it stands for "drooling retarded moron with a bib and plexiglass covering his eyes to prevent fork stabs" but thought "drooloron" worked better.