Oscars 07

[HaemishM]

No, I just don't think Scorcese is all that talented a director. He's no hack like Burton, and he's made some decent flicks (GoodFellas and Taxi Driver come to mind), but for the most part I've always felt he was overrated. His best talent has been in picking good scripts and bankable actors.

[stray]

His actors have never been bankable until Cage and Sharon Stone. Not DeNiro, not Keitel, not Burstyn, not Pesci, not Griffin freakin' Dunne. Not even Day Lewis.


Picking good scripts.

Umm, that's what directors do. He's not a writer. He's a photographer, an editor, a fairly detailed storyboarder, and has always been in the vein of old stage directors - a communicator. But not a scriptwriter.

Besides that, he hasn't even "picked" good scripts as much as you think. He's had a longterm relationship with one particular writer (Paul Schrader).

[Abagadro]

Calling Goodfellas "decent" is like calling the Grand Canyon a small ditch.

[Murgos]

So, it's a pretty good trick to take written words and turn them into a compelling and believable VISUAL scene.  Brag on your writing all you want but most of the details of what makes a story good are in the imagination of the reader, not written on the page.

Scorsese is a genius.

[ahoythematey]

I like Gladiator for what it is: Spectacle.  Russel Crowe won the best actor award because the academy fucked up when he was in The Insider.  Not sure why the movie won, though.  Can't say I care anymore, Shakespeare in Love beating Saving Private Ryan was pretty much the breaking point for me.

EDIT: Leo DiCaprio is a fantastic actor, he just looks too pretty for some.

[Rasix]

Who was it that beat Daniel Day Lewis in '02? Ohh yah, Adrien Brody.  That's when the Oscar's died for me.

[Engels]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but I'm with Haemish. I like Scorcese, but I get more excited by a new Eastwood film than one of his. There's always something approaching the dear with Scorcese, something just a bit too flat, a bit too pat. Sorta like Bruce Springsteen. He -tries- for grit, but it comes out a bit too safe, a bit too polished. Don't get me wrong, I think he made good movies, including Goodfellas and Taxi Driver, and he definately is single handedly responsible for DeNiro's career. I think he's also a great chap, more likeable than Eastwood or Kubrick, but he's a bit too joe bloe to be a genius.

Edit for typos that make me look stupid for saying Scorcese isn't a genius :P

[stray]

Tries for grit? Taxi Driver pretty much inspired an attempted presidential assassination....And more realistic violence in films from the moment forward. A little too much, I might add. It was Notes from the Underground in cinematic form. Doesn't get much grittier than that. And he accomplished that grit by barely having a scene of violence until the very end. Just steam filled New York streets, a mohawk, and a cab driver hating the world. It was so gritty that that imagery has pretty much become a cliche at this point.

On the other hand, he can switch from that to comedy (After Hours, King of Comedy), colorful and highly stylized period pieces (Age of Innocence, Aviator), religious/philosophical interest films (Last Temptation, Kundun), and concerts and music docs (Last Waltz, Bob Dylan doc, the Blues, upcoming Stones doc). So really, most of the time, he doesn't even attempt grit.

[EDIT] I will agree on not getting excited about Scorsese films though. At least I did at one point. He almost lost me completely with Bringing Out the Dead. I thought he was going through menopause or something. Nothing about the pacing in that film was right. And it just came off totally phony (can't really think of a better word). Gangs of New York only blew me away because of the actors really (Day Lewis of course, as well as Gleeson and Reilly). The rest of it kind of left me hanging.

Then he won me over with the Aviator again. And his music docs.

[Paelos]

Who was it that beat Daniel Day Lewis in '02? Ohh yah, Adrien Brody.  That's when the Oscar's died for me.

The guy from Jaws?

[stray]

No, the Pianist.

[Jeff Kelly]

Shakespeare in Love beating Saving Private Ryan was pretty much the breaking point for me.

Saving Private Ryan is typical Spielbergian crap. The first 20 Minutes are pure greatness but after the Invasion of Normandy scene everything else is just cliche and the typical "americans great, rest evil" stupidity. We get it, all french are cowardly weasels that run at the first opportunity all germans are backstabbing bastards that even try to kill you after you have saved their lives and all the americans are heroic avatars of justice that do not run or falter even when facing certain death. That is what I hate about Spielberg, Movies like Schindler's list or the first twenty minutes of Saving Private Ryan clearly show that he can achive great things when he actually tries but more often than not he just falls back to typical hollywood cliche, well executed but nevertheless not award worthy.

Most people I know only think that Saving is great because of the first 20 minutes.

The thin red line was hands down the better war movie.

[Zar]

Shakespeare in Love beating Saving Private Ryan was pretty much the breaking point for me.

Saving Private Ryan is typical Spielbergian crap. The first 20 Minutes are pure greatness but after the Invasion of Normandy scene everything else is just cliche and the typical "americans great, rest evil" stupidity. We get it, all french are cowardly weasels that run at the first opportunity all germans are backstabbing bastards that even try to kill you after you have saved their lives and all the americans are heroic avatars of justice that do not run or falter even when facing certain death. That is what I hate about Spielberg, Movies like Schindler's list or the first twenty minutes of Saving Private Ryan clearly show that he can achive great things when he actually tries but more often than not he just falls back to typical hollywood cliche, well executed but nevertheless not award worthy.

Most people I know only think that Saving is great because of the first 20 minutes.

The thin red line was hands down the better war movie.

Careful, your anti-american bias is showing.  It's ok.  I'm biased against americans and I am american  I will say that you're fucking retarded for comparing the thin red line to saving private ryan though.

Scorcese is a great fucking director, and anyone saying otherwise has some sand in their vagina.  There's only a few great directors around, really, and you want to say that Scorcese isn't one of them? Make your own fucking movie then, blowhard.

Likewise, Dicaprio has more than proven himself as a respectable actor since his Titanic days.  If you don't want to make the effort to see an actor mature and develop, its your own damn loss.  He's better than 95 percent of the actors out there in terms of range and talent.  Write him off at your own risk.  I'm sorry his baby face makes you feel gay in your pants.

[Ironwood]

Well, this thread is done.  What a death spiral.

Rabidly retarded.

[stray]

Fuck that Ironwood. It matters, damnit. 

And if it doesn't, nothing else at this site does, and your whole time spent here is a complete waste.

[Roac]

And if it doesn't, nothing else at this site does, and your whole time spent here is a complete waste.

 

[stray]

No seriously, I hate being reminded that certain subjects or arguments are pointless. Of course they are. And so is everything else. Even politics. Nothing you say matters here. Nothing. Even if you're talking about changing the world, it doesn't matter.

[Murgos]

Shakespeare in Love beating Saving Private Ryan was pretty much the breaking point for me.

Saving Private Ryan is typical Spielbergian crap. The first 20 Minutes are pure greatness but after the Invasion of Normandy scene everything else is just cliche and the typical "americans great, rest evil" stupidity. We get it, all french are cowardly weasels that run at the first opportunity all germans are backstabbing bastards that even try to kill you after you have saved their lives and all the americans are heroic avatars of justice that do not run or falter even when facing certain death. That is what I hate about Spielberg, Movies like Schindler's list or the first twenty minutes of Saving Private Ryan clearly show that he can achive great things when he actually tries but more often than not he just falls back to typical hollywood cliche, well executed but nevertheless not award worthy.

Most people I know only think that Saving is great because of the first 20 minutes.

The thin red line was hands down the better war movie.

What the fuck are you talking about?

There were no French soldiers in Saving Pivate Ryan, running away or otherwise.  In case you didn't notice, the Germans STARTED WWII and were by overwhelming unanimity considered to be acting pretty evilly at the time.  Besides, letting prisoners go and having them be back in the line was a REAL problem.  The American guy, Upham, was such a coward that he got his buddies killed by his lack of ability to do anything at all.  And yes, in the battles across France there were several instances of brave soldiers making a stand against ridiculous odds and actually making a difference.  Not just Americans but British and Canadians and all the other allies too.  It just so happened that this was an American movie, by Americans and about American soldiers.

You want to watch a movie about the British glider troops that held that bridge for three days after D-Day against half the German Army?  Go make it.

You're a tard and The Thin Red Line sucked in comparison.

[Ironwood]

No seriously, I hate being reminded that certain subjects or arguments are pointless. Of course they are. And so is everything else. Even politics. Nothing you say matters here. Nothing. Even if you're talking about changing the world, it doesn't matter.

No, there is NO subject nor argument that is pointless.  There are merely pointless ways of going about it.

[Kenrick]

Is it pointless to argue the pointlessness of a subject?

[stray]

I'd rather hear why Ironwood likes Glory so much.

Not a bad choice at all, I'm not saying that. It's just interesting to me. Do you like that part of American history too, or is just the film itself?

[Llava]

Glory is just a damn fine film.  I saw it for the first time as part of a class in the 8th grade and even as part of school it was amazing.

(btw, feel old yet?)

[stray]

I was in the 7th grade when it came out, but I know I'm at least 5 years older than you.

[Furiously]

I hear a lot of people had problem with the moustaches and beards in Glory. Like they were on crooked half the time.

But I'm in the camp that thinks it's a great film.

[Llava]

I was in the 7th grade when it came out, but I know I'm at least 5 years older than you.

I mean the teacher brought it in on a video tape and showed it in class.

[stray]

Yah, but you're not saying what year you were in the 8th grade. It was probably several years old by then, I guess? :)

And yes, you do make me feel old. I'm pushing 30. I don't like it.

[Abagadro]

Shaddup you yougin'.

[Riggswolfe]

I'd rather hear why Ironwood likes Glory so much.

Not a bad choice at all, I'm not saying that. It's just interesting to me. Do you like that part of American history too, or is just the film itself?

Not speaking for Ironwood but the part of Glory I really like is watching the men bond and the mutual struggle for self respect and the respect of others. That scene towards the end where they march through the lines of union soldiers and the one white guy who had almost gotten into a fist fight with some of them earlier goes "Give them hell 54th!" is the whole movie to me in one line of dialogue. I think Denzel's character is maybe one of the most important in the whole film. He makes Col Shaw see some things he didn't before. He also makes the journey from being very sarcastic and mean and not believing in anything, to being willing to pick up the flag in that last charge and showing he understood honor and what they were really fighting for.

[Jeff Kelly]

Careful, your anti-american bias is showing.  It's ok.  I'm biased against americans and I am american  I will say that you're fucking retarded for comparing the thin red line to saving private ryan though.

It is no anti american bias, it is anti Spielberg bias. There are a lot anti war and war movies out there where americans are portrayed as heroes and most of them are IN MY OPINION (just to point that out) better than his take on it.

Hell even thin red line was better and I'd consider it an awful film. Well if you'd like to call me retarded because of that then whatever.

Maybe I can't even put it into exact words but take A.I. for example, you can feel exactly where Kubrik had stopped with the movie before his death and where Spielberg has picked up the movie. It is or at least seems to be the moment where a decent movie gradually becomes some sort of happy-ended family valued tear jerker.

I might have gotten some of the details wrong in Private because I'd seen it a few years ago but I always felt kind of manipulated by the way he presents the events following the invasion. I feel that way in a lot of his films. Well you could argue that one is manipulated a lot when going to movies but the really great ones don't need to because they leave you to think for yourself and don't need to reinforce the point for you.

I only like some of his movies, in most of his films I get out of the Cinema and feel like a very competent salesman had just sold me expensive insurance I didn't need without me realizing it. Schindlers List for example, it is a great movie where a rather unknown bit of history is presented in a very good and Oscar-worthy way (and, coming from germany I had to endure a lot of documentations and movies about nazi germany). Even there I always had the feeling that he felt that all of the gruesome things that had actually happened were not enough on their own so he additionally had to drive the point home by reinforcing it. I also though that the last scene at Schindlers grave was unnecessary for the movie and was just added sugar to add a tearjerking effect.

See I just wrote seceral paragraphs about it and I still cannot explain it. I just hate the way he makes movies. Oh and reediting movies to change all of the guns to flashlights isn't exactly great filmmaking either.

Likewise I am a great admirer of Scorcese and he very much deserved an Oscar but they should have given it to him for one of his truly great films and not just as a way to make up with him. That is a slap in the face for him and the other nominees that might have deserved it more if it wasn't "making up with Scorcese" year at the academy. Not to say that the departed was bad just that there were other movies and directors this year which were better.

It is like the way Eastwood lost against Peter Jackson because the Academy felt it had to give him all of the Oscars for his three films combined at one award ceremony just because they somehow forgot to give them to him at the time that the actual movies were made.

That is all in all bad style.

[stray]

Best WWII film. In my humble opinion.

Talk about balanced too. That was made in the 50's and had a sympathetic German character (played by the best actor who ever lived, in my not so humble opinion).

[Furiously]

Best WWII film. In my humble opinion.

Talk about balanced too. That was made in the 50's and had a sympathetic German character (played by the best actor who ever lived, in my not so humble opinion).

Something isn't working there....

Just have one thing to say....Band of Brothers and Das Boot.

[stray]

Have you seen it?

Either way, I really like it that much. Though I would admit that many wouldn't even enjoy/qualify it as a WWII film. WWII is the setting and the backdrop, and all characters participate in the war somehow -- but it's more of a psychological study, and about pointing out that everything wasn't so black and white.

I've seen Band and Das Boot too. I think they're both great. Wouldn't consider them the best though. Plus, neither had Brando or Clift.

[Furiously]

I still have no clue what you are talking about...

[HaemishM]

The thin red line was hands down the better war movie.

Uh, no. The Thin Red Line was someone trying WAY TOO HARD to be meaningful. It was otherwise a terrible, boring, obtuse movie. It was art fag writ large.

I will agree with you about much of Spielberg's work, just not Saving Private Ryan and Schlinder's List. Those two films make all the rest of his movies look average (and I loved Jurassic Park and the first Indy movie). Ryan and Schlinder's List were classics of cinema and should be studied by cinema lovers everywhere. The rest? Not so much.

[Kenrick]

The thin red line was hands down the better war movie.

Uh, no. The Thin Red Line was someone trying WAY TOO HARD to be meaningful. It was otherwise a terrible, boring, obtuse movie. It was art fag writ large.

Nail, meet head.

[Roac]

Yes to Haemish's take on Thin Red Line.  The amount of meaning is unimportant if it's not entertaining.  Which, if my take was in doubt, the movie wasn't.