Five Thoughts on the Nintendo Wii

[Yegolev]

I think people are missing the point with being a hardcore gamer, sometimes confusing it with being a hardcore line-stander or money-spender or bad-planner.  In my opinion it is more about how much you like games, not how much you spend or whatnot.

My wife is a good study here.  As far as games go, she is only hardcore about The Sims.  She isn't the most hardcore Sims player out there, not by a long shot, but compared to most of you in the scope of a single game she outstrips the average by far.  The time, effort and money she puts into The Sims 2 right now makes WUA look like one of those Wii-playing grandpas by comparison.  However, she's not a hardcore gamer, just a hardcore Sims player.

Me, I love most every game genre to a certain degree.  Space Quest, Nethack, Diablo, StarCraft, Super Mario Blank, Baten Kaitos, GalCiv, Freespace, X-COM, Fallout, Half-Life 1/2, Vagrant Story, Disgaea, Sam+Max, Daggerfall, Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Metal Saga, Shin Megami Tensei: Blah Blah Blah, Chibi-Robo, Katamari Damacy, Ico, Phantom Dust, Armed-N-Dangerous, Eternal Darkness, System Shock, Thief, Twisted Metal.  I could go on.

I'm not a hardcore FPS player, but I love a good one despite my burnout there, and it should not matter that I suck at them since it's really just a matter of practice.  I'm constrained by time and cannot play, but I can still differentiate between a good and bad FPS.  I can make the call between a good and bad JRPG, and I can tell you why it sucks much like a movie critic can tell you why Failure To Launch was a horrible blight upon moviemaking with lots of technical terms.  I can tell you why Blaster Master was a superior platformer.  I can pick out the few flaws in FFXII and I can expound on the specific design mistakes in Rogue Galaxy.  Maybe you won't agree with me on my points of why San Andreas is awesome, but I will have specific points even if they are hinged on opinion.  Furthermore, I'll make an effort to appreciate your salient points.

I don't mean to sound like I'm being pompous or something, but I think I'm a hardcore gamer.  I just don't have the free time required to play all of the games I love.

[stray]

So I ended up finding myself in another opportunity to get a Wii. So this time I bit. 

Almost bought that DBZ game (guilty pleasure), but I didn't go that far. Standard Wii + Zelda purchase for now. And a gamepad for VC.

[CmdrSlack]

So I ended up finding myself in another opportunity to get a Wii. So this time I bit. 

Almost bought that DBZ game (guilty pleasure), but I didn't go that far. Standard Wii + Zelda purchase for now. And a gamepad for VC.

Damn man, share the luck...I'm still looking for one as my "finished the bar exam" reward....I was even willing to fly one home from SF if I coulda found one out there...but no dice.

That makes two major cities and their burbs that are Wii-free.  Sucks.

[HaemishM]

Wii (and the DS) still kicking all other hardware sales asses:

According to independent sales data released by the NPD Group, the Wii™ from Nintendo was America's best-selling video game console in the U.S. again in February, with consumers snapping up virtually every system available in America totaling more than 335,000 units.

Only one game system sold more in February, the portable Nintendo DS™, with sell-through of 485,000 units.

Together, Nintendo systems represented 54 percent of all hardware sales in February, more than those of all other manufacturers combined.

"We're gratified that the explosive appeal of Wii, in terms of both new players and new ways to play, has created unprecedented demand, substantially beyond supply," says Reggie Fils-Aime, president, Nintendo of America. "But we also understand that there are hundreds of thousands of consumers still waiting to get their hands on the system so we continue to both ship more units to retail every week and work non-stop to build capacity."

Reports from households across the country indicate that Wii has become the centerpiece for weekend parties a new method for improving athletic technique and losing weight, and a landmark product for generating cross-generational fun.

The strength of Wii and Nintendo DS was also apparent in monthly software sales where three of the top four best-selling games for the month (Wii Play™ and The Legend of Zelda®: Twilight Princess for Wii, and Diddy Kong® Racing DS for Nintendo DS) play exclusively on Nintendo systems. In addition, so far this year 10 of the top 20 best-selling games are exclusive for Nintendo hardware.

Oh yeah, and they are selling software too. Anyone still wanting to doomcast the Wii? I'm sure you'll be able to.

[Rasix]

Did anyone even doomcast the Wii in this thread at all?

Still not a damn thing on the system that makes me want to buy it.

[WindupAtheist]

The time, effort and money she puts into The Sims 2 right now makes WUA look like one of those Wii-playing grandpas by comparison.  However, she's not a hardcore gamer, just a hardcore Sims player.

Wait, what?  Since when do I carry the banner for the hardcore?

[squirrel]

Did anyone even doomcast the Wii in this thread at all?

Still not a damn thing on the system that makes me want to buy it.

Yeah there's not many titles on it. But to be honest I tried to buy one today - I had the day off and some spare $$$ - and I couldn't get one. Took all day to try. I just want it for Wii Sports which my girlfriend and son really enjoyed on a friends Wii. For the $250 or so that and a couple other games is enough for me - anything else is game gravy really.

Anecdotally on console availability here in Vancouver, BC (and plz - i'm not bashing PS3 or wanting to totally derail here): I called 17 stores today (EB's, Best Buys, Future Shop, Toys R Us, London Drugs, Sears and a few independent resellers.) Every time I asked: "Do you have any Nintendo Wii's in stock? Do you have any PS3's in stock? How about Xbox 360's?" (my 360 is in repair hell)...

Every store had 360's.
15/17 had PS3's.
0 had Wii's - most were getting a shipment for tomorrow/sunday, but expected total sell-outs by end of day.

Just interesting.

[stray]

I'm not doomcasting. Just unimpressed with the usual "Grandma likes the Wii" news.

Having a little buyer's remorse though. I could have waited longer to get one. I'm not even sure if Paper Mario will win me over, and there isn't much in sight for awhile after that.

[Sairon]

Okay, so I finally got the opportunity to play me some Wii sports and super monkey ball the other day. I must say, seriously, this might be the most over hyped thing ever created in the history of gaming. Seriously, what's so impressive? For example golfing doesn't feel even a tiny little bit like golfing, there's a hundred diffrent ways to move the controller in order to affect the power meter. Swinging it like a golf club doesn't tell anything about how good of a swing you just performed. Boxing is very much the same way, the actual actions performed reflect very little how you've moved the controller. If Wii sports somehow should show me the potential of the controller it fails miserably.

And so does monkey ball. Most of the games would be A LOT easier and more precisely controlled with a standard controller.

Is it just extremely poor demonstration of the capabilities of the controller or is it that the controller simply isn't very precise?

[Strazos]

I wouldn't exactly hold up Wii Sports as the definitive example of the control scheme capabilities. Also, I wouldn't head into any of these games, especially sports games, thinking they're going to control like anything resembling the real sport or whatever.

[Margalis]

The golf is really fun if you play competitively and turn off meters.

I also love tennis and boxing, and baseball even. Bowling just seems really boring.

[Azazel]

Okay, so I finally got the opportunity to play me some Wii sports and super monkey ball the other day. I must say, seriously, this might be the most over hyped thing ever created in the history of gaming. Seriously, what's so impressive? For example golfing doesn't feel even a tiny little bit like golfing, there's a hundred diffrent ways to move the controller in order to affect the power meter. Swinging it like a golf club doesn't tell anything about how good of a swing you just performed. Boxing is very much the same way, the actual actions performed reflect very little how you've moved the controller. If Wii sports somehow should show me the potential of the controller it fails miserably.

Well, golfing on the Wii certainly feels a lot more like actual golfing than carefully-timed button presses and/or thumbing the analogue nub. I was disappointed with the boxing once I realised that tilting the wiimotes in various directions was more effective than my actual-real-life fighting stance and blows. I don't know that any of the sports are accurate simulations of their real-world sports (outside works for that) but they're certainly moreso than, as I said, the various button-and-dualshock methods.

Also, the Wii sports games are fun, but I feel deliberately rough and lacking in options. The better to sell you Mario Golf, Super Punch-Out, Mario Tennis, with tighter controls and tons of options later on down the track.

So yeah, fun console, but not much to buy as far as software goes. Last thing I bought was Monkey Ball, 2 months ago, which I still haven't played.

[Sairon]

Okay, so I finally got the opportunity to play me some Wii sports and super monkey ball the other day. I must say, seriously, this might be the most over hyped thing ever created in the history of gaming. Seriously, what's so impressive? For example golfing doesn't feel even a tiny little bit like golfing, there's a hundred diffrent ways to move the controller in order to affect the power meter. Swinging it like a golf club doesn't tell anything about how good of a swing you just performed. Boxing is very much the same way, the actual actions performed reflect very little how you've moved the controller. If Wii sports somehow should show me the potential of the controller it fails miserably.

Well, golfing on the Wii certainly feels a lot more like actual golfing than carefully-timed button presses and/or thumbing the analogue nub. I was disappointed with the boxing once I realised that tilting the wiimotes in various directions was more effective than my actual-real-life fighting stance and blows. I don't know that any of the sports are accurate simulations of their real-world sports (outside works for that) but they're certainly moreso than, as I said, the various button-and-dualshock methods.

Also, the Wii sports games are fun, but I feel deliberately rough and lacking in options. The better to sell you Mario Golf, Super Punch-Out, Mario Tennis, with tighter controls and tons of options later on down the track.

So yeah, fun console, but not much to buy as far as software goes. Last thing I bought was Monkey Ball, 2 months ago, which I still haven't played.

Yea it feels more golf like than pressing a button, I can certainly agree with that. The games are boring though, most NES games are better as actual games. So if it's supposed to be some technical demonstration of the Wiimote of what's to come, then it's unimpressive. It leads me to doubt the actual precision and resolution of the controller, which will be crucial to make good games. Can anybody suggest a game I should play which demonstrates what the controller is capable of?

[Samwise]

I don't think the Wiimote is sensitive enough to give you any more options than a standard controller does.    It's just different is all.

Raving Rabbids is probably the best game I've played so far as far as making the Wiimote worthwhile.  It's just plain fun to whirl the controller around in the air and have that correspond to swinging a cow by its tail.  I suspect the Wii's strongest point is going to be party games like that.

[Margalis]

Here's the thing: you *can* just flick your wrist for the same effect- but why would you?

Plus all the games suck single-player other than boxing.

[Samwise]

Here's the thing: you *can* just flick your wrist for the same effect- but why would you?

A very important component of the video game experience, for me, is that I feel like what I'm doing with the controller matters to what's happening on the screen.  If what I'm doing doesn't make any difference, then I'm just playing make-believe with myself.  I can do that just as easily without shelling out the money for a Wii.  I might as well play a tennis game with a conventional controller and swing it around like a tennis racket.  Or maybe watch a tennis match on TV while swinging a real racket around.  Then I'd get better force feedback.

(edit) Here's another way of looking at it.  Suppose that on the Guitar Hero controller, the fretboard buttons were purely decorative, and success in the game was measured solely by the timing of the strummy bit.  You could still try to match the tab on the screen with your left hand, and pretend that what you were doing was a bit more like playing a guitar, but it wouldn't matter as far as the game was concerned.  Would it still be as fun of a game?  Would you even bother with the fretboard once you'd figured out that it didn't do anything?

[Sairon]

I agree with Samwise, if I have to pretend that much I might as well swing my dual shock or whatever around while pressing the buttons.

[Azazel]

Yea it feels more golf like than pressing a button, I can certainly agree with that. The games are boring though, most NES games are better as actual games. So if it's supposed to be some technical demonstration of the Wiimote of what's to come, then it's unimpressive. It leads me to doubt the actual precision and resolution of the controller, which will be crucial to make good games. Can anybody suggest a game I should play which demonstrates what the controller is capable of?

I guess it comes down to taste then. I quite enjoy the Bowling. I don't mind the boxing/golf/tennis though they're not mind-blowing. Monkey Ball (which I rented before I bought) was fun enough to buy, though as mentioned, I haven't gotten around to playing yet since buying. Rayman is an alright collection of minigames, and Wii Play has a fun 2-player air hockey game, and only cost a few bucks more than a controller (and was discounted on top of that).

Red Steel, CoD3 tried something new in FPS land, but it didn't work for me. Zelda took too long to get interesting so I fucked it off, and most everything else appears to be lame ports with a Wiimote scheme tacked on. Since the thing is still selling very well though, I'm hoping that by Christmas there will be a bunch more good games that really use the console.

So, yeah. Not much to buy right now.

[Azazel]

I agree with Samwise, if I have to pretend that much I might as well swing my dual shock or whatever around while pressing the buttons.

*shrug* might just be that this isn't the console for you guys. At least at the moment. I'm sure you can find other uses for the money in the meantime...

[Samwise]

Oh, I think the Wii is worthwhile.  The ability to play GC games and download classic NES/SNES games is worth half the purchase price on its own IMO.  And I bet there'll be plenty of good games that use a more conventional control scheme.  And a few that use the Wiimote in creative ways, like goofy party games and stuff.  Also, Excite Truck is fun even if it would work just as well with conventional controls.

[MrHat]

So I have some buds coming up next weekend and we want to play some Drunk Wii.

Any good party games?  Which one?  WarioWare, Raving Rabbids, Monkeyball?  Recommendations?  Any good driving games?

[Samwise]

Excite Truck is a good driving game, and Raving Rabbids is a good drunk party game.  I can't comment on the others.

[Roac]

So I have some buds coming up next weekend and we want to play some Drunk Wii.

Any good party games?  Which one?  WarioWare, Raving Rabbids, Monkeyball?  Recommendations?  Any good driving games?

WarioWare and Monkeyball got good reviews, but I didn't care for them.  Give them a shot if you like, though.  I love Rabbids, and would highly recommend it for any Wii Party stuffs. 

[Strazos]

Super Swing Golf?

[Azazel]

Wii Sports, Raving Rabbids, and Monkey Ball (the mini-games, not the main Monkey Ball game).

[Velorath]

Support for the Wii seems to at least be slowly growing.  Recent announcements of games like Project O, Opoona, and Treasure Island Z all seem like projects to an eye on, especially for RPG fans.

[stray]

I'll probably have fun with Treasure Island Z, but pixel hunting is a kind of step back for Capcom. They, if anyone, have been the big third party that had Nintendo's back for so long. They could do better than that.

Besides the big Nintendo titles this year, I'm actually looking forward to the Naruto game. Heh. I'd like a flashy Fighter title like that, and DBZ isn't my thing. Naruto is.

[HaemishM]

Wii Sports is a fun tech demonstration masquerading as a fun party game. You shouldn't try to expect a deep sports simulation, that's coming.

Tiger Woods Golf just came out on the 13th. There's your golf game. 2kSports is making The Show later on in the summer for baseball. The Pokemon battle game coming out later this year sounds like it'll be the Net multiplayer killer app for the system. The Prince of Persia game could be interesting, though I'm not sure it'll be more than a tacked-on port like Marvel: Ultimate Alliance was. There's rumors of Sega's Nights franchise being resurrected on the system.

By summer, there should be a decent set of games. By Christmas, there should be a really good library of games.

[Yegolev]

The time, effort and money she puts into The Sims 2 right now makes WUA look like one of those Wii-playing grandpas by comparison.  However, she's not a hardcore gamer, just a hardcore Sims player.

Wait, what?  Since when do I carry the banner for the hardcore?

I have no comeback, unless you are still addicted to UO.  I just hadn't used you in an example for many months.  I suppose it would have been more apt if my wife was playing SimCity 2000.  My bad.

[Velorath]

I'll probably have fun with Treasure Island Z, but pixel hunting is a kind of step back for Capcom. They, if anyone, have been the big third party that had Nintendo's back for so long. They could do better than that.

Well they still supposedly have that Resident Evil game in the works also, although there's still been next to nothing shown of it.  Treasure Island Z's director did Power Stone 2 and RE: Outbreak, so it's not exactly being done by one of Capcom's top teams.  Like most Wii games it seems to have the potential to either be additively fun or completely tedious.

[Yegolev]

We might get Resident Chibivil.

[WindupAtheist]

I have no comeback, unless you are still addicted to UO.  I just hadn't used you in an example for many months.  I suppose it would have been more apt if my wife was playing SimCity 2000.  My bad.

Actually, I've just gotten back into it within the last week or so.  There's a good RP community on Europa, and it makes things interesting.  But me puttering around roleplaying and building a house in UO is like the exact opposite of hardcore.  The level-grinding and face-melting I've been doing in WoW for the last few months, that was a little closer, but still nowhere near super-catassery.

[Yegolev]

It's less about staying up until the wee hours and more about your overall level of dedication.  My wife does spend quite a bit of time playing The Sims directly, but it's relative.  She usually puts it away when it's time to watch me play some console game or to try to hand me a beatdown in fake bowling, especially when she's doing the metagaming she has been for the last few days, which is manually organizing the custom content she has downloaded that the creators put in the wrong place... something about people putting houseplants in the drapery section and other asshattery.  She doesn't create her own content, not even retexturing things even though she posesses the skill and software to do that easily.  The community and EA both drive her into a rage from time to time, but she sticks with it because she enjoys the game.  The parallels to a MOG are there, so just toss in "EA" and "shitty" and you're not far from a UO devotee.