Five Thoughts on the Nintendo Wii

[HaemishM]

I own 2 games for the Wii. That's more games than I owned for my X-Box in the same time frame, and I bought that one years after release. I've played to completion 2 other Wii games (rentals), played 2 others that weren't great, and I currently have 3 VC games on the system. I'm not feeling the drought of games for the Wii, at all. I owned a total of 7 GameCube games (still own 4 of them), and RE4 alone was worth the price of admission. No, there hasn't been a new Wii release since Super Swing Golf that I want, but there are at least 3 games in Quarter 1 I wouldn't mind owning (Tiger Woods, Prince of Persia and Medal of Honor Vanguard) or at least renting.

I don't buy the PS3 because I refuse to pay that much for a console. Period. It's too expensive. Luckily, it's made easier by the fact that there's really nothing on the system I give a shit about either. I'll look at the 360 when they decrease the price.

Oh, and ZOMG, someone's making a Zorro game for the Wii. Swashbuckling swordfighting 4tw.

[lovecraft]

If I wanted a visceral feel of playing tennis, I'd play tennis. Ditto golf, etc.

I play games because I want to sit on my couch and not do stuff. If I want to do stuff, I do stuff.

Whatever.

That killer topspin shot not even he could explain? We call that exploting AI.

I have known a dozens of guys who are total jocks, athletically inclined, whatever, who still play Madden.  Go fig.

[Margalis]

I can't play Tennis now that it is 20 degrees outside with a 3 inch sheet of ice on the ground...

Anyway knocking someone for buying any system is kind of silly.

[Yegolev]

Bushido Blade?  Whoa, whoa, whoa.  First of all, do any of you fuckers remember Bushido Blade 2?  Second, if you make a game like that using the Wiimote, it won't be Bushido Blade any more than Bushido Blade 2 or Super Monkey Ball was Bushido Blade.  The best thing that could happen is if someone simply updated the graphics; no added "modes" or "characters" or "haptic motion-sensitive sound-emitting ergonomic fresh-scent HID".

[Margalis]

Apparently Sonic for the Wii looks pretty good and plays better than the other next-gen versions.

Of course, it is still a Sonic game...the last truly good one was probably SA1 for DC no?

[stray]

Oh, and ZOMG, someone's making a Zorro game for the Wii. Swashbuckling swordfighting 4tw.

That could be cool. I might be the only guy on earth who prefers the rapier and dueling tradition over Japan's. It's also a sport I'm not too shabby at.

Though Zorro himself isn't even close to as cool as Sanjuro.

[stray]

It's not wrong on the Wii because a) it's way less cash, and b) people just don't play as much on it.  They don't want to, not becuase they dislike it, but because they're not that "hardkore".  They like gaming on a Wii, but they like other things too, whether that be another console or another hobby.

Nintendo needs people who buy at least 20 games. They will live or die by that kind of customer (the very customer who will also buy that many games on other systems as well). Not some guy or gal who liked Wii Sports and then goes about their way and shoves the console under their bed. Why even talk about them here? That's the kind of crap that should be in a NYTimes article. Not here. This is a gamer's market, and nothing is going to change that.

[EDIT]

Also, everyone has other hobbies. Don't be silly.

[Big Gulp]

It's targeted for more casual players, so the games you do get are likely to last longer in relative terms even if they're about the same in absolute terms.

By casual players I assume you mean "children and non-gamers".  That's who is being targetted here, not people like us.  Nintendo has fully adopted the lame-ass party game as it's money machine.  It's working very well for them, but I don't see them actually doing much to target real, catass gamers.  Right now those types of gamers who own Wii's are still mollified because it's a new system and all they see ahead of them is possibility.  I personally see a whole bunch of Warioware clones with the occasional crazy, innovative game coming from Capcom.

[Margalis]

God, you guys really don't get tired of repeating the same points over and over and over and over again do you?

Yeah, the Wii has a lot of garbage party games right now. And the PS3 has a lot of garbage games in general. (Although now VF5 is out, but I know you "hardcore gamers" prefer DOA because DOA is really hardcore )

Seriously, how long can you guys go on with:

"I like this system better."
"Well I like this other system better!"

Oh rlly? This is quite an exciting discussion.

You guys look like retards. This is Mac vs. PC territory.

[stray]

"I like this system better."
"Well I like this other system better!"

Oh rlly? This is quite an exciting discussion.

You guys look like retards. This is Mac vs. PC territory.

You're reading way too much into this. I already said I like the Wii. Like a couple dozen times now. If I'm repeating the same thing over and over again, it's that. Just because I disregard the so called "casual gamer" doesn't mean I dislike the Wii. Or has it gotten to the point that both of those things are the same?

(Although now VF5 is out, but I know you "hardcore gamers" prefer DOA because DOA is really hardcore )

Where the heck did that come from? Everyone knows VF is the best 3D fighter, and "hardcore" is still Capcom to this day. DOA is for the titties.

[EDIT]

And the PS3 has a lot of garbage games in general.

More like a ridiculously small amount of mediocre games, and one fantastic game.

[Roac]

Nintendo needs people who buy at least 20 games. They will live or die by that kind of customer (the very customer who will also buy that many games on other systems as well). Not some guy or gal who liked Wii Sports and then goes about their way and shoves the console under their bed.

Who is shoving it under the bed?  The people I know who've bought one *are* getting other games.  Zelda alone has (or had) something like an 80% attachment rate.  Wii Sports is just the gateway drug for Nintendo. 

Also, who the hell is buying 20 games per console?  Just looking at the PS2 we've got 115 million consoles sold, with 1.2 billion games sold, so you're looking at on average around 10 games per console.  Original PS is less, at around 9 per console.  Gamecube was slightly less than either, with 189m games and 20.9m consoles.  They're doing quite well without your figure; Nintendo just upped their profit estimates by 20%.

[stray]

Just looking at the PS2 we've got 115 million consoles sold, with 1.2 billion games sold, so you're looking at on average around 10 games per console.

Something closer to the truth would be that casuals buy as little as less than 10. The others are buying 20, 30, and more. Just the fact that you could even say it has a 10 per average across that many systems shows how many hardcore customers there really are (i.e. that's a lot of hardcore players picking up the slack for casuals).

Secondly, it's nothing to compare the Wii with. The PS2 is a system with both a large hardcore fanbase, as well as a casual one. Nintendo, on the other hand, is banking a lot on just casuals. Nintendo could very well sell as many units as the PS2, but if they hold on to that casual philosophy (and I hope they don't), I can guarantee that the number of games sold won't even be close.

[Stephen Zepp]

Quick comment now that the Wii is out, etc, etc:

Developers "aren't spending the time to make graphics better" because the Wii graphics technology is several generations old. Developing for the Wii requires a very smart set of design constraints from the beginning:

A) Spend most of your development budget meeting out dated graphics capabilities to get that extra 5% of shiney.
B) Spend most of your development budget leveraging Wii strengths to sell your game.

Min/Maxxers should certainly understand this--hell, you created the idea: accept the mins, and maximize the maxxes. You aren't ever going to make even a highly polished Wii game look like an un-optimized XB360/PS3 game...so focus on what you can do better.

Early on when we heard about what the Wii dev kits had hardware wise, pretty much our entire dev side of the house said "eww, that's gonna suck...hope the controller lives up to expectations"....

[Roac]

Secondly, it's nothing to compare the Wii with. The PS2 is a system with both a large hardcore fanbase, as well as a casual one. Nintendo, on the other hand, is banking a lot on just casuals. Nintendo could very well sell as many units as the PS2, but if they hold on to that casual philosophy (and I hope they don't), I can guarantee that the number of games sold won't even be close.

That's why I also included GC sales.  For 6th generation, it's a difference of about 1 game/console, or ~10% fewer games/console.  Of course, the PS2 games library was also many, many times larger than the GC library so certainly that's helped.

It isn't going just casual though.  I don't think grandma is playing Zelda, and neither will Metroid.  Then there are the shooter ports already there and soon to be there.  Plus other exclusives/ports like Midnight, Sadness, RE, Orb, Prince of Persia, Manhunt 2, etc.  It would be an easy bet to say that the library is going to wind up far more casual than either the PS3 or 360, but Nintendo has never really cutout hardcore players.  Anyone who really likes mature/hardcore games is unlikely to be satisfied with just the Wii, but there's still going to be a lot to like.  And if the Wii has similar sales points as the GC with hardcore gamers, but also sells crates of units to casuals, they're still comming out ahead.

[Roac]

Min/Maxxers should certainly understand this--hell, you created the idea: accept the mins, and maximize the maxxes. You aren't ever going to make even a highly polished Wii game look like an un-optimized XB360/PS3 game...so focus on what you can do better.

I don't think there are any complaints about the Wii not rising to the standard of the 360 or PS3; that was a known from the outset by just about everyone.  If anyone didn't know, they are also the type that wouldn't be aware even after seeing/playing the Wii.  The complaints are that for some games it looks like devs aren't even trying to polish at all, let alone "highly" polish.  A few titles actually look underrated even for the DS, let alone the Wii.  We know it can look nice, because there are games which do, but also several that really, really don't.  It's like several guys figured they didn't even need to try and make things look alright.

[Jeff Kelly]

hope the controller lives up to expectations"....

does it?

[schild]

hope the controller lives up to expectations"....

does it?

Nope. If it didn't I'd be stoked about the possibilities. The technology just isn't there yet. Not for any sort of serious gaming at least.

[Margalis]

When did I sign up for the Vault?

I'll say it again: you guys all sound like retards.

[schild]

Wrong. People on the vault don't have the perspective to make these opinions and do anyway. I've probably played more Wii games than anyone else on this board and I really would have liked it to kick ass.

But there aren't enough games. Honestly, I'm very close to taking it out of the videogame sector and comparing it to boardgames. I mean, that's who it's in competition with, right? It just happens to be sold at EBGamestop.

[Trippy]

Wrong. People on the vault don't have the perspective to make these opinions and do anyway. I've probably played more Wii games than anyone else on this board and I really would have liked it to kick ass.

Fortunately for Nintendo the general public disagrees with you making the Wii the top selling console in the US in January.

[naum]

Fortunately for Nintendo the general public disagrees with you making the Wii the top selling console in the US in January.

Surprised to see XBOX 360 not selling, and explains the tall stacks of XBOX 360 boxes at retailers…

As far as games go, maybe because of my already packed schedule, I've not even dented the limited Wii game suite of my own. Played Wii sports extensively, a little of Zelda, Wario Ware, Elebits and some Trauma Center, but haven't even popped in Madden 07 or done a VC game yet…

Wii is going to be very successful -- it's a crossover hit, and not because of the graphics, but the controller deal…

[Margalis]

ZOMG NO IT SUX!!

Continue on...we can make this 50 pages of the same 2 points, I know it!

[schild]

Wrong. People on the vault don't have the perspective to make these opinions and do anyway. I've probably played more Wii games than anyone else on this board and I really would have liked it to kick ass.

Fortunately for Nintendo the general public disagrees with you making the Wii the top selling console in the US in January.

Top 10 SKUs

1. 360 LOST PLANET: EXTREME CONDITION 329k
2. PS2 GUITAR HERO 2 W/GUITAR 224k
3. 360 GEARS OF WAR 212k
4. WII WARIOWARE: SMOOTH MOVES 201k <--
5. WII LEGEND OF ZELDA: TWILIGHT PRINCESS 189k <--
6. PS2 MADDEN NFL 07 156k
7. GCN LEGEND OF ZELDA: TWILIGHT PRINCESS 144k Gamecube! Only 40k less than the Wii one. I mean, comeon.
8. PS3 RESISTANCE: FALL OF MAN 144k
9. 360 TOM CLANCY'S RAINBOW SIX: VEGAS 135k
10. NDS NEW SUPER MARIO BROS 125k

What? Like I said, it's going to come down to games.

And just for reference:
Playstation 2 299k, 37.4mm
Xbox --, 14.5mm
Gamecube 34k, 11.7mm
Xbox 360 294k, 4.8mm
Playstation 3 244k, 937k
Wii 436k, 1.5mm
GBA 179k, 35.3mm
Nintendo DS 239k, 9.4mm
PSP 211k, 6.9mm

And Margalis, you're gonna have to fuckin cope with it for 5 years. You can go post the same shit in EVERY THREAD in the MMORPG forum. But you aren't. So simma down.

[schild]

I just noticed the PSP closing the gap on monthly sales with the DS. I wonder why. Boosted by strong PS2 and PS3 sales maybe?

[Sairon]

I don't know if I should be impressed by those Wii sales considering that nintendos big gun already has been fired, ie Zelda, when PS3 hasn't released any of their big ones yet.

[stray]

Margalis, this is a pretty civil discussion by most standards. Are you reading a completely different thread?

I would really, really like to talk about consoles just once, without anyone coming in and interpreting just the intent of wanting to talk about consoles to be some kind of attack on them. Just one console thread where nobody gets hurt, and where nobody pops in and makes occassional "this thread is retarded" one liners.

I mean, come on. It's bad enough that few at this site even want to talk about these games at all. At least allow the ones who do the small luxury of as little interference as possible. Would that be OK? Or are we that retarded to you that we can't even TALK? I don't understand, man.

[Big Gulp]

I mean, come on. It's bad enough that few at this site even want to talk about these games at all. At least allow the ones who do the small luxury of as little interference as possible. Would that be OK? Or are we that retarded to you that we can't even TALK? I don't understand, man.

Exactly.  I've got a massive gripe list for all three of these consoles, and enjoy bitching in general.  That okay with you, Margalis?

Wii
- Lack of HD support
- Lack of real online play (nope, the convoluted number system they have set up doesn't cut it)
- The Wiimote appears to be sort of half-assed, considering that for the most part it doesn't translate 1-1 movement offscreen to movement onscreen.
- Fixation on party/"cutesy" games.

Xbox 360
- Crippling, persistent hardware problems.  Upgrade your QA department, fucksticks!
- Live Arcade sucks.  Root Beer Tapper anyone?  Cut the dross, and start releasing games quicker.  Scrap your weekly release cycle, already.
- Lack of HD space.

PS3
- Nickel and diming the consumer, ie, seperate HDMI/component cables need purchasing.  When you market your console as an HD monster this is inexcusable.
- Kinda-sorta implementing online play.  Better than the Wii, leagues behind the 360 still.
- Unnecessarily high price point due to Sony leveraging itself into the Blu-Ray market.
- Lack of games, or more specifically, lack of exclusive games due to corporate hubris.  This is a self-inflicted wound that should never have happened.  They let MS eat their lunch.

[schild]

I'm so used to the nickle and diming since the dreamcast era that I don't really notice that sort of shit anymore.

[Margalis]

I don't mind console talk, my problem is every console thread devolves into "which console I like best" with the same two points repeated over and over again.

How about mentioning what games people actually find fun for the different systems...kind of the point of games right? People who own the PS3 - what are you playing?

[schild]

Virtua Fighter 5.
flOw.
Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection.

[stray]

I don't mind console talk, my problem is every console thread devolves into "which console I like best" with the same two points repeated over and over again.

How about mentioning what games people actually find fun for the different systems...kind of the point of games right? People who own the PS3 - what are you playing?

Well, if it makes you feel better, I've had more fun on the 360 and even the Wii than I have on the PS3 so far. Though I've played neither extensively (probably wouldn't make much of a difference though).

Comparing it to the 360 isn't fair though. It's obviously better. It's been out longer.

As for Nintendo, I'd happily take Zelda over Resistance right now. Resistance is a great game, don't get me wrong, but I'm pretty burned out on shooters at the moment. I played through it, I'll give it the praise it deserves, but it wasn't something that really appealed to me personally. I've had more fun moments playing Wii Sports and Zelda on a friend's system.

I also have Project 8, MUA, Ridge Racer 7, and had NBA 2K7. None are bad games, but nothing unique to the system or special in any significant way. I've had more fun with Rogue Galaxy (PS2) and playing through older Capcom games than any of those.

I got fucked all day trying to find VF5, so I can't talk about it yet...

Blu-Ray movies are cool, but I suppose that would be cheating if I mentioned that (or is it?).


All that being said, making a judgement on games is kind of premature at this point. I still think talking about the systems, in and of themselves, is a valid point of discussion. They all have their unique schtick, it's sort of clear what direction they're taking in the near future, etc... And as far as future games go, we can all get an idea of each system's 2007 lineup.

[CmdrSlack]

flOw

So is it any different than the version I have on my hard drive?  I mean, if the only difference is that it's on the PS3 (and then, I guess potentially on a bigger screen), is that really a shining endorsement for the system?  Maybe that was your point. 

[stray]

I don't think he was endorsing anything. Margalis asked what he was playing. He answered.

[naum]

I don't know if I should be impressed by those Wii sales considering that nintendos big gun already has been fired, ie Zelda, when PS3 hasn't released any of their big ones yet.

Well, considering that the Wii is still unavailable from online retailers like Amazon and bestbuy.com, along with that fact that the units that are shipped are stilling being scoffed up in a snap, and the demand is still greater than the supply, don't know if I'd pronounce that just yet. Best Buy is still struggling to keep Nintendo Wii in stock. And yet, it was the biggest selling console last month…

Another sad Wii story…

[Sairon]

I don't know if I should be impressed by those Wii sales considering that nintendos big gun already has been fired, ie Zelda, when PS3 hasn't released any of their big ones yet.

Well, considering that the Wii is still unavailable from online retailers like Amazon and bestbuy.com, along with that fact that the units that are shipped are stilling being scoffed up in a snap, and the demand is still greater than the supply, don't know if I'd pronounce that just yet. Best Buy is still struggling to keep Nintendo Wii in stock. And yet, it was the biggest selling console last month…

Another sad Wii story…

I thought they had that shit sorted already hehe, most of my mates who gets a turn on by the Wii has managed to get them now