At least Evangelicals' have nice closets.

[Paelos]

I agree with you if the people involved want to be forgiven.

At the risk of driving this thread to the Politics forum (which I avoid for my blood pressure's sake), my opinion is that it comes down to hating the sin while loving the sinner.  Jesus didn't say to forgive those who sin against you ONLY IF they ask for it, he said to just forgive them.

Or maybe if your religion had been more forgiving of him and accepted the fact that the 'new' woman made him (and her, she's a person too) happy the boy could have still held a good relationship with his father and the mom would have been able to move on to someone who appreciated her without the stigma of being a spurned woman ruining her life.  Because then, you know everyone might have been ok.

/agree.  This sounds like the definition of preemtive forgiveness to me.

edit to quote Paelos more pertinently

You mean well, and your points make logical sense, but you're wrong.

When regarding other believers Jesus said, "If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector."

That's a direct quote from scripture right before he says in relation to how often we should forgive, "No, not seven times,” Jesus replied, “but seventy times seven!" He then goes into the parable of a man who begged for forgiveness from the king, but he wouldn't forgive a man who begged him to give him time on his debt.

The point is that you have to confess your sins before they can be forgiven by God. Man has similar steps to help lead people back into the flock. Some things, like adultery are expressly wrong, and you have to remind people about that fact. However, sometimes they don't listen to one person, a group, or an entire church. You can't accept people into the church who wish to continually sin and want to have everyone accept it. Perhaps you can forgive them, perhaps you can open your heart in the hopes for them, but you can NEVER accept that what they did had no consequences. Jesus teaches forgiveness, but it's not without consequence for actions.

Time after time, Jesus forgives people and tells them to sin no more. That's the point, you have to actually want to change. You can't just try to rationalize away your issues and never repent your sins. At it's heart, the only forgiveness that matters is between you and God, and I know from his teachings that he will never forgive you unless are repentant before him.

[Ironwood]

Assplode.

[Tebonas]

At least in the Catholic church its a deathtrap. Adultry is a sin, but also is divorce forbidden. So if you fall out of love you are shit out of luck. Loveless marriage till the end, which is ridiculous and unfair to the children as well. Thats not a healthy household to grow up in.

It was easier when the average person died around 30. It was almost guaranteed that "Til Death Us Part" wasn't THAT far away.

[HaemishM]

No, he was just almost completely heterosexual, and that small gay part of him made him get it on with a male hooker.

Maybe I'm just a cheap bastard, but one doesn't pay for gay sex if he isn't gay. It's a waste of money. What, was he trying to assfuck some guy just to decide whether he was gay or not? You don't pay a hooker for that. You pay a hooker for discretion.

Of course, this hooker wasn't a very good one, because he blew that whole discretion thing out of the water. I wonder if Haggard can get a refund.

[Ironwood]

THAT'S NOT ALL HE BLEW, EH ?  AM I RITE, HAY ?  RITE ?!!

LOL!!!!111.


 

[HaemishM]

See, I thought about going there, but didn't.

[Morat20]

No, he was just almost completely heterosexual, and that small gay part of him made him get it on with a male hooker.

Maybe I'm just a cheap bastard, but one doesn't pay for gay sex if he isn't gay. It's a waste of money. What, was he trying to assfuck some guy just to decide whether he was gay or not? You don't pay a hooker for that. You pay a hooker for discretion.

Of course, this hooker wasn't a very good one, because he blew that whole discretion thing out of the water. I wonder if Haggard can get a refund.

To quote a very old trope -- you pay the hooker to go away after.

Although I suspect that unless you are paying really well, you're not going to keep your gay meth-buddy hooker quiet when you go on TV loudly condemning him daily. You gotta pay extra for that shit.

[Jayce]

You mean well, and your points make logical sense, but you're wrong.

When regarding other believers Jesus said, "If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector."

For some reason, you seem to think that when I said forgiveness, I meant it as being equivalent to zero consequences.  I did not say that.

[Paelos]

You mean well, and your points make logical sense, but you're wrong.

When regarding other believers Jesus said, "If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector."

For some reason, you seem to think that when I said forgiveness, I meant it as being equivalent to zero consequences.  I did not say that.

Yeah the more I look back on it, you were just using the original post I disagreed with in your own points. Touche.