Vanguard: Round 1 - FIGHT!

[Sky]

I remember back in EQ when I was Pling an alt in Guk.  This must have been early-PoP.  There was this level-appropriate, untwinked guy, I think a paladin, in there trying to solo.  We chatted a while and it turns out he was a bona fide new player, but had never grouped because there just weren't any players his age.   I PLd him a while with my twink, but he didn't really want to be PLd, he wanted to play.  But he just couldn't.  I don't want to be that guy.

That's kinda how I felt this weekend in EQ2. I was trying to do some quests in blackburrow, and kept getting slaughtered. But I kept on, trying different tactics, hoping maybe at some point I'd figure out a way to overcome the game's anti-solo bias. I mean...there has to be some class that can take on ^^^ Heroics, right?

Guess not.

Meanwhile, the place was a ghost town (and that's ok in my book, if it weren't for the anti-solo code) except for a few twinked-to-hell alts. And I don't mind twinking a bit, I think it makes the game more fun when you've already been through it all once. But I simply couldn't compete. Finally had to give up.

I can understand wanting players to work together, social retention and whatnot. But turning away players? That seems crazy. I'd have played WoW a lot longer if it hadn't been for their anti-solo dungeons. Playing an rpg with dungeons but only seeing one ever pretty much sucked.

[Nebu]

That's kinda how I felt this weekend in EQ2. I was trying to do some quests in blackburrow, and kept getting slaughtered. But I kept on, trying different tactics, hoping maybe at some point I'd figure out a way to overcome the game's anti-solo bias. I mean...there has to be some class that can take on ^^^ Heroics, right?

Guess not.

I'm not sure how helpful this is, but my brigand could kill blue ^^^ if they were alone but it required me to have VERY good gear, the best poisons, and all of my toys up.  Funny actually since 4 standard blue mobs could do me in.  Some classes are very good at killing single targets but suffer when having to deal with numbers.  I agree though, I ultimately left EQ2 when I couldn't see the content until it was all green/gray to me. 

[Afropuff]

Geldon is just another example of Vanguard-liker that chose to go the solo road.
It kills you.

Right now, the only way to enjoy Vanguard is being in a Guild (and that must be why I am still enjoying it). Exactly like it was in EQ1.
So mission accomplished for Brad.

Wait a minute, Geldon was going on and on for pages about the virtues of manditory socialization . . .  and that Vanguard has a soul -  A SOUL I tell you!

[Falconeer]

Can't talk for him, but that's a soul that has to be shared. If you try to take it alone, it'll burn you from the inside.

[Engels]

Its all our fault anyway. If we hadn't been mean to him, and had liked Vanguard like he asked, he'd have had a guild to play with, and he'd not quit so soon. Shame on us!

[palmer_eldritch]

I remember back in EQ when I was Pling an alt in Guk.  This must have been early-PoP.  There was this level-appropriate, untwinked guy, I think a paladin, in there trying to solo.  We chatted a while and it turns out he was a bona fide new player, but had never grouped because there just weren't any players his age.   I PLd him a while with my twink, but he didn't really want to be PLd, he wanted to play.  But he just couldn't.  I don't want to be that guy.

That's kinda how I felt this weekend in EQ2. I was trying to do some quests in blackburrow, and kept getting slaughtered. But I kept on, trying different tactics, hoping maybe at some point I'd figure out a way to overcome the game's anti-solo bias. I mean...there has to be some class that can take on ^^^ Heroics, right?

Guess not.

Meanwhile, the place was a ghost town (and that's ok in my book, if it weren't for the anti-solo code) except for a few twinked-to-hell alts. And I don't mind twinking a bit, I think it makes the game more fun when you've already been through it all once. But I simply couldn't compete. Finally had to give up.

I can understand wanting players to work together, social retention and whatnot. But turning away players? That seems crazy. I'd have played WoW a lot longer if it hadn't been for their anti-solo dungeons. Playing an rpg with dungeons but only seeing one ever pretty much sucked.

I don't know how WoW can have an anti-solo bias when it has so much solo content. Even EQ 2 has a lot of solo content. It sounds as if you are complaining that the game has any group content at all. As a serious question, how could this be dealt with in a perfect world? Make content which is both suitable for groups and suitable for soloists at the same time? I don't think it would be possible.

If a game puts in lots of solo stuff and also puts in lots of group stuff, and says "here is the group stuff, see it says "elite" or three up arrows, that means group" and you go and seek out the group stuff to try to kill it solo, it's kind of unfair on the developers:)

I guess one issue is loot - in WoW you might solo up to 70 but you wouldn't get the cool stuff from the dungeons. Maybe solo mobs could drop loot which is as good as the stuff that comes from the group mobs. But even a dedicated soloist would find that a bit odd if they ever grouped up for a change and took on the dragon of uber-groupwiping only to come away with something that could get solo, even in a very difficult solo fight, I think.

(even a lot of group stuff can be soloed if you wait until it is very low level to you, but ok, that's not fun so let's agree that is group-only content).

Edit: If you are only really talking about locations - how about having some cool, dangerous, interesting dungeons for soloists instead of making them only do exterior areas - then I see your point.

[palmer_eldritch]

The story of the EQ paladin brings up another issue with Vanguard I think - if the supply of newbies dries up, it will be really horrible to play for the rare newbie that does join. Right now, I can do a fair number of quests that I try simply because when I turn up at the location, there is a very good chance one or two other people will already be there and we can help each other.

[Lantyssa]

I don't know how WoW can have an anti-solo bias when it has so much solo content. Even EQ 2 has a lot of solo content. It sounds as if you are complaining that the game has any group content at all. As a serious question, how could this be dealt with in a perfect world? Make content which is both suitable for groups and suitable for soloists at the same time? I don't think it would be possible.

CoX does this pretty well.  Distribution of "loot", too.

[Calantus]

I don't know how WoW can have an anti-solo bias when it has so much solo content. Even EQ 2 has a lot of solo content. It sounds as if you are complaining that the game has any group content at all. As a serious question, how could this be dealt with in a perfect world? Make content which is both suitable for groups and suitable for soloists at the same time? I don't think it would be possible.

The 1-70 game is soloable. The endgame is not. That is where WoW is biased against soloers. Compared to the industry as a whole it's very solo friendly, but not when taken in a vacuum.

[Azazel]

Geldon quit Vanguard 2 weeks ago.

About catasses, please remember what spawned the term: maybe Vanguard is the game that can ONLY be played if you are a catass, but at best it holds 100k catasses.
WoW on the other hand will probably entertains 5 millions casual/regular players/human beings, but you can stay assured that it retains a good amount of catasses that I would consider in the 3 millions range.
WoW made some of my "sane" friends into rabid catasses and made people buy new computers just to ruin their life on raiding Molten Core and beyond. Tyra made an episode in her talkshow about a major wow catass exactly as it used to happen back in the EQ days with people losing jobs to raid all day and Southpark's WoW episode is all about catassing, not the game.

So you could be happy that all the crazies are probably firmly in Vanguard's hands, but for the biggest amount of catasses, even statistically, you have to look at WoW. Should that ever collide (and it won't) there would be a MAJOR catass invasion in the online world.

I'll clarify that. Every game, as you point out is full of catasses, and yes, by sheer numbers, WoW has more than most. I meant people who think that they are hot shit because they are catasses.  I wanted Vanguard to be successful enough to act like a giant toilet flush and clear all the catasses out of WoW that think they are "hardcore".

As well as all the people on the Vanguard boards that want everything to be harder with long grinds and long camps and ong travel times and so on and so forth. Fuck, give them their game, I don't care. Ideally Vanguard would have been successful enough to get all of those people the fuck away from me. The fact that it's failing even to do that is what really saddens me about this entire trainwreck. And despite my harsh words for the VG playerbase, you do come across as an intelligent and thoughtful guy, and I do understand your "explorer" bent, I just can't imagine putting myself through that hell to explore their world. Hence my semi-recent comments about only being willing to play it if it were in godmode with a flying mount and a variety of firearms...

As for Geldon...

GELDON! PLEASE COME BACK!

No Mea Culpa required. I just want to hear about why you stopped playing Vanguard, and I know you're still reading these threads. 

Seriously, there must have been something interesting to see you turn from such an ..ardent supporter of the game to quitting so quickly. Did you last the entire included month?

[Trippy]

Cut it out. If you really want him to post something about Vanguard tell it to him on his blog.

[Azazel]

places like Stratholme and Blackrock Spire

Actually, those are the specific dungeons in WoW I'd compare most of VG's dungeons to.
<snip>
Er, but yes VG isn't the first, its just refreshing to see these kinds of dungeons even at the lower levels.

And much like Falconeer's story of dungeon delving and bug wiping, I had a realization a couple days back that hit me in the face like a truck. I logged four hours into a dungeon (Early holiday morning, not much else to do), and I had gained something like 15% of lvl 18. Hah, I just have so much better stuff I could do with my time.

My opinion on these I guess would be that I honestly like both kinds, and I prefer a mix. I like being able to run through Deadmines or Ramparts in a linear fashion sometimes, just as I like to be able to go into a deep instance and do a bunch of stuff even if we can't clear the dungeons. I think that's my major reason I like instanced dungeons. It really does feel much more old-school pen-and-paper roleplaying to go into a dungeon with your group of mates, work your way whereever YOU wanted to go through at your own pace without worry about backspawns and camp checks and all of that other EQ1-style bullshit. That was one of the best parts about EQ1's Lost Dungeons of Norrath expansion - despite being made up like tile/lego sections, those nstances brought back the old-school PNP feeling which was missing from EQ until that point.

And yeah.. 4 hours into a dungeon is a bit too much for me these days. That's what I'm hearing WoW's "heroic mode" instances are like, and to be quite blunt, I'm not going to bother with that kind of shit. Even when I can be arsed playing for a 4-hour stretch in outdoor zones, that's punctuated with numerous AFKs and when solo, I even wander off to do other things then forget I'm still logged in from time to time. Even old-skool EQ1 raids you could afk or be more relaxed most of the time than you can in a 5-man, since everyone in a 5-man needs to be ON in a heroic instance, while sleeping through a few (or a few dozen) trash mobs doesn't matter so much when you're in a 30-40-50-man raid.

Silence prevents a mob (or player in PVP) from casting a spell for X seconds. This isn't even a bug. So, if you levelled to 20 fast, you now have a spell no other druid has or will have.

That's SO old-school "vision-era" EQ1 that I can't even laugh. Reward the people there first, then nerf it for everyone else in the game. Catass FTMFW.


 

I was interested in VG only to see what kind of world McQuiad would come up with.  An oft-overlooked thing about EQ was that it really felt like you were going through a world that actual designers and artists handcrafted with love.  WoW is the only MMO I've played that comes close in that aspect.

There was this level-appropriate, untwinked guy, I think a paladin, in there trying to solo.  We chatted a while and it turns out he was a bona fide new player, but had never grouped because there just weren't any players his age.   I PLd him a while with my twink, but he didn't really want to be PLd, he wanted to play.  But he just couldn't.  I don't want to be that guy.

Yeah, I'll give Norrath that. It's just a shame that the 90% of the whole lore and history of the old world was hidden and that even if you tried to seek it out, you could barely find anything, even offline. Later expansions became an endless stream of "new gods, new hidden continent discovered". And yeah, there were lots of people like that in EQ by the PoP stage. The game had matured(?) so much by that stage that all the old zones were empty and a new player would be in an empty world. I logged in a couple of weeks ago, and freeport, ro, neriak, commonlands, even lavastorm were all totally empty.

WoW is getting a little that way as well. Outside of guild-alt-groups, most people's experiences of under-60 instances seems to be getting a level 60 to run them through the place, because there are no groups. They'll be filled again with Dranei and BEs for another month or so, then they'll be back to being wastelands. At least you can solo your way through Westfall without much hassle..

Geldon has a blog? I never noticed. I don't see the harm in asking him to post it here though assuming he's not banned from the admin side. After all, I don't read his blog, but I do read this forum.  

[shiznitz]

another issue with Vanguard I think - if the supply of newbies dries up, it will be really horrible to play for the rare newbie that does join.

This is already a problem.

[Falconeer]

To be fair to Geldon, he didn't quit out of boredom apparently, just his usual need to wander off different games.
Like the most of us I'd say.

[Azazel]

After that amount of evangelising and hyperbole though?

[Simond]

The lack of newbies in VG can be explained by looking at, say, the Amazon PC games sales chart.

[Falconeer]

Characters created are now at 420k according to VGplayers.com

Just a number, not saying much. But I am keeping track of that number out of curiousity.

[Falconeer]

Patch day in Vamguard-land.

Highlights:
- Quest experience significantly increased. (!)
- Rogue revamp and Bard heavy tweak.
- Some major bugfixes (Mobs disappearing, chunking to death, disappearing items and titles).

Build 1758 February / 22 / 2007

Vanguard Build 1758 Patch Notes 2/22/2007



GAMEPLAY NOTES
- Player chance to sneak past even level NPCs without detection has been significantly increased.
- Infineum Affliction is no longer quite so debilitating.
- NPCs - NPC’s with “Timemage” abilities are now immune to charm.
- NPCs - Overland and Dungeon bosses are now more resistant to various status afflicting spells such as charm, fear, clone, stun and mesmerize.
- NPCs - NPC Heal-over-time spells have had their duration significantly reduced.
- NPCs - Additional NPCs now see invis throughout the world, beware
- Quests - Experience rewards from quests have been increased by a fairly large amount
- Players should no longer get stuck at 251 skill in Spell Identification or Tactic Recognition.
- Fix for charm "wars". You should no longer be able to start wars between npcs by charming them allowing charm to break, and then leashing them.
- The bug causing mobs to disappear during combat has been fixed.


ADVENTURING NOTES
- Protective Fighters – Rescues are now usable out of combat.
- Bard - Tynen's Chant of Chains is now a verse.
- Bard - Illestine's Epic Substitution should now increase Cold Resistance in addition to Fire.
- Bard – Mellarian’s Melody of War now correctly stacks with the Paladin’s Aura of Divine Power.
- Bard – Greatly reducing the energy cost of Calming Lullaby.
- Bard - Suann's Entrancing Trill now has a 2 second cast time.
- Bard - Suann's Call of Slumber now has a 2 second refresh time.
- Bard – Fence now has a 10 second refresh timer, down from 20.
- Bard – Hinder now has the proper amount of upgrades.
- Bard – The lyric, Hazoc's Magical Aria is now available at level 25.  It was inadvertently left off trainers.
- Bard – Striking the Mountain now exploits armor chink.
- Bard - Cleave the Mountain I, II, III, and IV have been added to the trainer lists, and are available (at levels 22, 30, 38, and 46).
- Bard - Humming Blade - Would turn off after 72 minutes, this is fixed.
- Blood Mage – Quickening Symbiote now requires 1 Vial of Blood, 1 Still Beating Heart and 1 Quivering Brain to create. On the brighter side, these symbiotes can actually be created now.
- Blood Mage – Organs for creating symbiotes now stack
- Blood Mage – The assembly for Controlling Symbiote now correctly states you are making a controlling symbiote and not an animation symbiote
- Blood Mage – Vitalizing Symbiote now requires 3 Vials of Blood and no other components. These symbiotes can be created once again.
- Dread Knight - Armor of Darkness should now increase mitigation as intended.
- Dread Knight – Scourge will no longer get resisted as often.
- Disciple - Gift Of Vitae now adds endurance instead of subtracting.
- Disciple - Gift Of Vitae should no longer spam the caster.
- Monk - North Wind Breaks the Trunk should now cause the target to hurt itself upon attacking rather than healing itself.
- Monk - Form of the Spirit Dragon has been renamed Aspect of the Spirit Dragon.
- Monk - Aspect of the Spirit Dragon now grants invisibility.
- Monk - Soaring Leap should now actually cause you to leap.
- Necromancer – Fixed a bug with Ravaging Claw II, putting it inline with the rest of the claws.
- Necromancer - The wraith version of the plague bringer will now cast “Soul Vex” instead of “Soul Blight”. This should be considerably less confusing.
- Psionicist – NPCs now consider Time Stop to be a mez and not a stun.
- Ranger - Windsong now costs 10 endurance.
- Ranger – Your Talismans should no longer wear off after 4320 seconds of continuous playing.
- Ranger – Your Tiger Talisman now correctly gives a bonus to your auto attacks as well as your special attacks.
- Rogue – Relentless Thrust is now attainable at level 10 and has no refresh.
- Rogue – Drub has been increased in effectiveness
- Rogue – Drub now costs 10 endurance, down from 17
- Rogue – The Drub line of abilities has had some level changes.  This gives it a more gradual hate reduction progression.  New levels are 12, 20, 28, 36, 44
- Rogue – Clout now lasts for 6 seconds or 5 hits, up from 3 hits.
- Rogue – The Backstab line of attacks has had some level adjustments.  New levels are 4, 12, 20, 28, 36, 44
- Rogue – The Shank line of finishing attacks has had some level adjustments.  New levels are 12, 22, 32, 42.
- Rogue – The advanced version of shank are now actually upgrades.
- Rogue – The Wicked Strike line of attacks has had some level adjustments.  New levels are 1, 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48.
- Rogue – The Last Ditch Strike line of attacks now deals increased damage, costs no endurance and does not incur global recovery.
- Rogue – Lacerate once again exploits Armor Chink.
- Rogue – Slightly increased the damage of the Lacerate line of attacks.
- Rogue – Note: There is a bug that is causing the damage display of lacerate and hemorrhage to show as much smaller than the actual damage done.  The debuff tooltip (the one beneath the target’s display) is correct.  This will be addressed soon.
- Rogue – The damage of Death Whirl has been increased.
- Rogue – Death Whirl now exploits staggered.
- Rogue – Slightly increased the damage of Ravage.
- Rogue – Ravage will now stun for 3 seconds on a critical hit.
- Rogue – Relentless Thrust have been renamed to Vicious Strike.
- Rogue – Vicious Strike (the attack formerly know as Relentless Strike) now deals additional damage on a critical hit.
- Rogue – Deadly Strike has been added to trainers starting at level 26.
- Rogue – Impale has been added to trainers starting at level 18.
- Rogue – Shiv has been added to trainers starting at level 22.
- Rogue – Knee Break has been added to trainers starting at level 4.
- Rogue – Revenge has been added to trainers starting at level 6.
- Rogue – Dazzling Flechette II and Advanced Dazzling Flechette II no longer function.
- Rogue – Dazzling Flechette I and Advanced Dazzling Flechette I now have a different function and have been moved to level 15.
- Warrior - Devastating Blow now correctly displays that it roots the target for 3 seconds.
- Warrior – Roar of Fury now states the correct amount of hate it adds instead of stating it increases hate by 0.


CRAFTING NOTES
- The Learning Apprentice Shingles quest can now be completed.
- Higher level blacksmith recipes have been added to most blacksmith instructors in Kojan.
- More advanced work orders are available in Leth Nurae, Lomshir, Martok, Mekalia, Tanvu, and Tursh.
- Quests added: “Best Artisan Ever”, “Grodek’s New Hammer”.
- Experience rewards for amateur tier quests have been increased.
- Experience rewards for apprentice tier quests have been increased.
- Experience rewards for initiate tier quests have been increased.
- Experience rewards for journeyman tier quests have been increased.
- The warring crafting factions of New Targonor now have more work orders available.
- Thestran Blacksmith lower level great axe recipes are now available.
- The quest “Gregan’s Demand” now asks for a grip instead of a shaft.
- Fixed a lot of work orders that were giving out wrong recipes and items.
- Crafted shields should now be recognized as shields by abilities.
- Deconstruction tables have been updated and fixed. Please report any instances of empty deconstructed parts.
- You can no longer deconstruct legendary or ultra rare items.
- Fixed issues with armor-smith work orders being mislabeled.
- Updated robes with continental effects. Tooltip still does not display attached effect.
- Shield proc effects should work properly now.
- Work orders for the crafting organizations in New Targonor should give faction for the appropriate group and remove it from the opposing factions.
- Ballista parts work order in Shaletooth Tower has had its rewards changed.
- The quest “The Swordsmiths Apprentice: Craftsmanship” should now ask for the proper resources to complete the recipe.
- Additional higher level secondary recipe have been added to certain Kojan trainers.
- Fixed an issue with the “The Swordsmith’s Apprentice: Craftsmanship” quest that may cause you to get the wrong recipe or get no recipe at all when accepting the quest.
- Upped drop rate of upgrade recipes a smidgen
- Fixed bug that was showing two tooltypes on some etching knives
- Added slot amount to description of all saddlebags
- Fixed issue causing tier 4 barding to have same stats as tier 3
- Fixed issue causing some rare armors to give the improper reward when deconstructed
- Increased chance to get orb from deconstruction across the board
- Fixed description of loose clamp to display effectiveness penalty.
- Some work orders were repeatable when they were not intended to be. This has been fixed.
- Fixed display name of attuning powder of energy
- Gwartak Clan recipes now provide more weapon/armor options sooner.
- Adjusted duration of rune of force to what the description said
- Fixed rarity of all crafted expendables
- Adjusted required level of crafted expendables to look at adventuring level
- Reduced required level of martial sword recipes
- Increased level of crafted martial swords (this change is retroactive)
- The crafting advisor now talks about titles. If you are missing crafting titles, talk to any crafting advisor about titles in the dialogue tree and he or she should fill in any titles you are missing.
- An artificer refining table has been added to the barn in the Renton Keep area.
- Fixed a lot of recipe descriptions that listed unusable refined items as acceptable.
- Harvesting – Amateur tier rare harvesting tools have been increased in power.
- Harvesting - Greenback Spiders are no longer harvestable.
- Harvesting - Harvestable Treants in the Marsh of Peril will now despawn properly.


DIPLOMACY NOTES
- Glendryl Owlskeen is now a Soldier in Ca’ail Brael.
- Negotiating the Point now correctly gives only one copy of the card “Poetic Truths.”
- New Targonor - The repeatable quest “Monk for Hire” is available now at the New Targonor docks for diplomats of at least 201 skill to build faction with New Targonor
- New Targonor - The repeatable quests “See to Our Guests” and “Unruly Adventurers” are available in the Remniol District of New Targonor for diplomats of at least 301 skill to build faction with House Remniol.
- New Targonor - The repeatable quest “Out of Towners” is available in the Heartsworn District of New Targonor for diplomats of at least 301 skill to build faction with House Heartsworn.
- New Targonor - The repeatable quest “Improving Standards of Dress” is available in the Hilthorn District of New Targonor for diplomats of at least 301 skill to build faction with House Hilthorn.
- New Targonor - The repeatable quest “Deliveries for Caberton” is available in the Heartsworn District of New Targonor for diplomats of at least 301 skill to build faction with House Heartsworn.
- New Targonor - The repeatable quest “Ghost-ese” is available in the Hilthorn District of New Targonor for diplomats of at least 301 skill to build faction with House Hilthorn.
- New Targonor - The quest “Cleaning Out The House” has been added in Wharf Rat Downs in New Targonor. Seek out Dockhand Nash for more information.
- Tanvu - Tanvu’s Clergy and Academic levers are now operational.
- Tawar Galan - The quest “Smuggler’s Delight” is now available from Raisoor the Navigator on the sky bridge between Ca’ail Brael and Tawar Galan. It requires 50 Diplomacy skill and very low Presence.
- Tawar Galan - The follow-up quest “Secret is in the Sauce” is also available from Raisoor the Navigator for those who have completed “Smuggler’s Delight.” It features two alternate endings (“Stop the Smugglers” and “Secret is in the Sauce”) and will affect various factions accordingly. The reward for this quest series includes a belt that stores stacks of Information.
- Tawar Galan - Contraband-sniffing tigers added to Tawar Galan.
- Tursh - Merchant Civic Diplomacy Levers have been removed from Tursh.
- Veskal’s Exchange - Maret Djash is now willing to give out “Foreign Affairs” in Veskal’s Exchange.


WORLD POPULATION NOTES
- Ceros Isle - Added a mailbox and a shaman trainer to Hauyen’s Outpost on Ceros Isle (a level 40-44 area north of Tanvu)
- Craigwind Ridge - All overland camps in Cragwind Ridge have undergone an itemization pass
- Dahknarg – The quest “Specialized Training” is now not available until level 2. (when you can actually train)
- Dahknarg – various grammar/spelling errors have been fixed in many Dahknarg quests
- Karrus Hakrel - Hrukstraz is now more difficult and will respawn less often.
- Loot - World cash drops have been added/tweaked; all valid races should now drop cash loot if they weren’t before
- Marsh of Peril - Quest rewards in the Marsh of Peril have been tuned
- Martok - Fleet Commander MagUthor will now drop his head for players on the quest: Crippling the Fleet
- Northern Highlands - A group of Treants now inhabits a secluded valley in the Northern Highlands of Thestra
- Pantheon of the Ancients – Victims of Ghalnn will no longer fight back, but rather cower in fear during the trial “By the Shieldmaiden”.
- Tar Janashir - There is a new delivery quest in Tar Janashir.
- Tar Janashir - There is a new quest line available in Tar Janashir for players around level 36. Speak to Farra Djengh by the water in Tar Janashir and take the quest “Swiftfoot Shanty” to get started.
- Temple of Dailuk - Not all of the overland creatures are bloodthirsty anymore, only certain ones want to see you dead.
- Qalia - Much of the blue Qalian world loot has been tuned, more to come.
- Quests - Directions have been corrected for the quest, “Spoilcrawlers of Zoth Uluus.”
- Quests - The number of troll kills required for the quest, “Tolls for Trolls” has been increased.
- Quests - Agent Under Cover: You are no longer required to have the shadowhound illusion activated upon you in order to get the waypoint updates.
- Quests - Agent Under Cover: Azara Shahab will now give you another ring if you lost the first one she gave you.
- Quests - Crush The Defenses: Fixed bug where Xarkrafil Flarehounds were not giving quest bits.
- Quests - In the quest “Invoking Ghalnn’s Will”, the Enraged Ghostfang Okami should once again attack the Tanvu Prisoners.
- Quests - Fix to A Light So Bright - this should solve the issue of players not being able to click on the offering stone.
- Quests - The quest “The End of Innocence” has been marked more appropriately as ‘Small Group.’
- Quests - The Captain event in the Infineum quest line should be more playable
- Quests - The Bounty Hunter quests in the River Palace and Seawatch Coast areas will now properly reward quest completion with badges that can be redeemed for rewards. Additionally, any players who already completed these quests should seek out Marius Steelwind in Strandan. He will reimburse badges that should have been awarded by bounty hunt quests already completed.
- Quests - Invoking Ghalnn’s Will – Quest should now be able to be completed, and there should no longer be a barn full of panicked Tanvu Settlers being chased around by an angry wolf (comical as is was to see).  This quest is still, however, limited to one player at a time.
- Riftseeker’s Torrent - Altered the location at which characters teleport into the ‘Utaalk’ portal of The Temporal Fortress of the Riftseekers (Riftseeker’s Torrent). This should fix the problem where players were sometimes being teleported out of the dungeon.
- Riftseeker’s Torrent - Replaced the Monk/Disciple specific drops from Riftseeker’s Torrent with more Thestran friendly attire. If you have already obtained the old Monk/Disciple specific items, fear not as they have not been removed from game.
- Silverlake - Zar should now only spawn as a male, never as a female.
- Skawla Rock - Fixed the statistics on the heavy item rewards for the Skawlra Rock quest lines.
- Tanvu - A Cleric trainer has taken up residence in Tanvu.
- Trengal Keep - Interior population of a section of the Ruins of Trengal Keep has been modified
- Thelaseen Dungeon - True Blood Caretakers will no longer flee when low on health.
- Thelaseen Dungeon - Yalsyl Vonalys is no longer immune to auto-attack and will no longer flee when low on health.
- Veskal’s Exchange - Spinthra should be a bit less common
- Vol Tuniel - Players above the adventuring level of 34 can now teleport into the Lair of the Vi’Rak (Vol Tuniel) via the vortex found inside the Vi’Rak poisoned pit in Marsh of Peril.
- Vol Tuniel - Lesser named in the Thelaseen and Vol Tuniel dungeons now have a chance to drop a higher quality armor rune.
- Vol Tuniel - Ancient tome overland spawns are now correctly spread across both the Thelaseen and Vol Tuniel regions.
- Vol Tuniel - The ancient tome spawn rates and total spawns have also been very slightly increased.
- Vol Tuniel - Increased the power of a sub boss to a boss in the ruins of Vol Tuniel, his loot has also been adjusted upwards
- Vol Tuniel - If a named in the Thelaseen or Vol Tuniel regions can drop an armor quest rune, it will now drop a rune 100% of the time.
- Vol Tuniel - Adjusted the location at which players teleport to when using the Vortex to the Lair of Vi’Rak in order to prevent players from falling through the terrain.
- Zaraj Arena - High end rewards for the Zaraj Arena have been tuned


Items
- Living Rune Of Flame is now soulbound
- The effect on Yanvil, Shock of Ages, has been tuned
- The effect on the Infineum Rod and Staff has been tuned
- Infineum crafting items now require an immunity to Infineum in order to be equipped


GUI NOTES
- The work order window will no longer always say "You currently have no work orders."
- Negative coin values will now appear correctly in the UI. This mainly affected the Building Infomation window and Upkeep values.


CODING NOTES
- Fixed a memory leak in the rendering of markup strings.
- Players will no longer die again if they chunk while dead. This commonly happened on boats but could also happen when dieing right at a chunk border.
- Players will no longer die again if the region they are in goes down while they have they release dialog up.
- If you chunk while dead, your time remaining to release will reset to 10 minutes.
- Fixed a bug that would sometimes cause unequipped items to go into limbo until you relogged.
- Titles will now display properly after changing regions.
- Players that are missing harvesting titles should get them automatically the next harvesting skill up they get.
- In some cases, players doing diplomacy would have to log out and back in to see their new titles. This should no longer be the case.


~The Vanguard Team

[Sky]

I don't know how WoW can have an anti-solo bias when it has so much solo content. Even EQ 2 has a lot of solo content. It sounds as if you are complaining that the game has any group content at all. As a serious question, how could this be dealt with in a perfect world? Make content which is both suitable for groups and suitable for soloists at the same time? I don't think it would be possible.

WoW dungeons are group-only. That's rather anti-solo imo. WoW was fun to solo, but totally missing out on all the cool dungeons sucked. How could it be different? They are instances. Make a solo version of the instance. How? Just remove the stupid elite/^^^ garbage. Leave everything else. I'm not asking for it to be easy, just not artificially impossible.

If a game puts in lots of solo stuff and also puts in lots of group stuff, and says "here is the group stuff, see it says "elite" or three up arrows, that means group" and you go and seek out the group stuff to try to kill it solo, it's kind of unfair on the developers:)

I don't mind group content. It's when you do things like make dungeons exclusive of soloers and in EQ2 make most named and interesting mobs (that drop better loot, of course) group-only.

I guess one issue is loot - in WoW you might solo up to 70 but you wouldn't get the cool stuff from the dungeons. Maybe solo mobs could drop loot which is as good as the stuff that comes from the group mobs. But even a dedicated soloist would find that a bit odd if they ever grouped up for a change and took on the dragon of uber-groupwiping only to come away with something that could get solo, even in a very difficult solo fight, I think.

Well, I've often said this is where EQ1 got it right, at least in the pre-kunark era. I'm not asking to solo Nagafen or Vox or the Planes. But most of the rest of the game, with effort, was fairly soloable. At the very least, it wasn't put out of reach of solo players by virtue of a hard-coded anti-solo system that seems to be the way of all mmo these days.

Edit: If you are only really talking about locations - how about having some cool, dangerous, interesting dungeons for soloists instead of making them only do exterior areas - then I see your point.

Yes, but why not let soloers get good loots, too? Why should grouping be rewarded over a talented soloer who can take on stuff without a healer, tank and mezzer to ease the way? Soloing things is often more difficult, more risk, less reward. It's kinda messed up imo.

The 1-70 game is soloable.

Can you solo Scarlet Monastery? The motherloving newbie dungeon, even? I don't even give a shit about the endgame raid stuff. Put in catass raid-only content until your dreams get wet for all I care. I'm more about the journey than the destination, and as time goes on, I'm being told by developers that I'm a second-class citizen in online worlds. But hey, I should enjoy being exluded from dungeons and named mobs because I can solo an_orc086. Thanks.

[Falconeer]

I agree with Sky. Better than that, I said the same things so many times now.
WoW it's not solo frendlier to me than other games. It's just that rewards (and XP, and levels) come sooner than other MMORPGs.
So as soon as you are starting to feel the grind, a reward, a level, an item just comes.

You can't do dungeons alone in WoW (EDIT: Yes, I know you can do those when you are about 8 levels higher than mobs. Big deal), EQ2 or Vanguard. You can stay overground and level with quests and mobs in all those games.

Slowly in Vanguard, faster in EQ2, very quickly in WoW.
That's the soloability of World of Warcraft.

[Simond]

Well, I've often said this is where EQ1 got it right, at least in the pre-kunark era. I'm not asking to solo Nagafen or Vox or the Planes. But most of the rest of the game, with effort, was fairly soloable. At the very least, it wasn't put out of reach of solo players by virtue of a hard-coded anti-solo system that seems to be the way of all mmo these days.

I'm sorry.. are you claming that you could solo LGuk/SolB at L50 in pre-Kunark gear? Pre LGuk/SolB gear, for that matter (read: junk from MM/SolA/UGuk).

That seems...unlikely to me.

[Valmorian]

Well, I've often said this is where EQ1 got it right, at least in the pre-kunark era. I'm not asking to solo Nagafen or Vox or the Planes. But most of the rest of the game, with effort, was fairly soloable. At the very least, it wasn't put out of reach of solo players by virtue of a hard-coded anti-solo system that seems to be the way of all mmo these days.

Dungeons in EQ1 were only "soloable" in the same sense that dungeons in WoW are.  People seem to forget that after a while in EQ1, ALL mobs were "elite".  You can take elite mobs in WoW if they are a few levels below you with most classes.  In this sense you can solo dungeons in WoW in the same way you can in EQ1. 

Because if you're suggesting that you could go all the way through an EQ1 dungeon Solo when the creatures in it WEREN'T trivial to you, I'd love to hear how. 

[Sky]

Well, maybe not top to bottom solo the entire dungeon. But invis in and solo a room, sure. We used to do it all the time, I don't think I did SolB, though. I liked lower guk. Guys like the frenzied ghoul and the sage (was he the one with the robe? That was the room I was camped in when I quit playing) were tough, but do-able. Don't think I ever quite pulled off the Lord's room solo.

I played a necromancer. Sometimes I'd duo with a wizard, before the eqholic moved away. My gear sucked for the most part, despite grouping a lot more in EQ1, because I seemed to always group with lootwhores or have bad dice rolls.

I'm suggesting I can't do that in any modern mmo, but I could in EQ. Hell, I'd give the pet the executioner's axe when I was soloing that whole area waiting for other camps to open up.

[Valmorian]

Well, maybe not top to bottom solo the entire dungeon. But invis in and solo a room, sure.

I can, and have, done this in WoW.  My Rogue can take a single green elite pretty easily, and if I wanted to I could stealth into an instance that was mostly green elite mobs and yank and kill the mobs one by one.  It's just more effective for me to go solo outside the dungeon.

The difference between EQ1 and WoW mob strengths wasn't that WoW made dungeon "elite" mobs tougher, but rather they made NON-dungeon mobs WEAKER.

[Sky]

But these were blues (before there were 'light blues'). Maybe it's that I was a hunter? Shoulda played a pally, newb? I dunno.

Also, more effective how? Surely not in loot?

[Morat20]

Well, maybe not top to bottom solo the entire dungeon. But invis in and solo a room, sure. We used to do it all the time, I don't think I did SolB, though. I liked lower guk. Guys like the frenzied ghoul and the sage (was he the one with the robe? That was the room I was camped in when I quit playing) were tough, but do-able. Don't think I ever quite pulled off the Lord's room solo.

I played a necromancer. Sometimes I'd duo with a wizard, before the eqholic moved away. My gear sucked for the most part, despite grouping a lot more in EQ1, because I seemed to always group with lootwhores or have bad dice rolls.

I'm suggesting I can't do that in any modern mmo, but I could in EQ. Hell, I'd give the pet the executioner's axe when I was soloing that whole area waiting for other camps to open up.

Sky, your position is pretty much the inverse position of the hard-core catasses who demand everything -- even taking a piss -- should require a full group. You bitch because there's group-only content in a game, with no way to solo it. 

What amazes me is that you dislike WoW, which goes further than any game I've ever seen in allowing a solo-player to collect group-quality gear through solo-means. Faction grinds, BGs, long-chain quests -- especially now, with the BC expansion.

Not to mention that you can, in fact, solo a lot of instances -- once you outlevel it. (My 60 Hunter happily soloed instances all the way to ZF -- although I didn't try some of the boss pulls there).

[Valmorian]

But these were blues (before there were 'light blues'). Maybe it's that I was a hunter? Shoulda played a pally, newb? I dunno.

Also, more effective how? Surely not in loot?

There are no blues in WoW.  Green mobs are the WoW equivalent to EQ1's blue and light blue mobs.

Also, It's arguably even easier for a hunter to go through a "green" instance than a Rogue. 

And EQ1 was FAR more restrictive about what classes could go into dungeons solo.  My Paladin had a VERY rough time with light blues and blues, not to mention my friend's warrior (which was basically fight, wait 20 minutes to get to full health, fight)..

There are good quest items that rival the loot from instances, at least while you are levelling up.  At 60, not so much.

But then again, were there ANY dungeons in EQ1's endgame that could be effectively soloed?  I mean sure you could do LGuk or Solusek B, but the high end stuff?

[Azazel]

But these were blues (before there were 'light blues'). Maybe it's that I was a hunter? Shoulda played a pally, newb? I dunno.

Yeah, well, you do realise that blues in EQ back then are the same as what greens are in WoW today, right?

Also, that as a necro you were one of the ultimate solo classes. Try doing that shit at that time in pre-kunark gear with a shadowknight, or a warrior, or a ranger, or etc. Even as a druid you'd have been fucked indoors like that.

Morat makes an excellent set of points as well, notably with the fact that "all the good gear" isn't cut off from you since you can do any number of overland quests (yes, including pre-BC) that net you some fucking good gear for levelling. In WoW it's not all about the dungeon drops (unlike, say, EQ1 was...)

[Rasix]

Well, maybe not top to bottom solo the entire dungeon. But invis in and solo a room, sure. We used to do it all the time, I don't think I did SolB, though. I liked lower guk. Guys like the frenzied ghoul and the sage (was he the one with the robe? That was the room I was camped in when I quit playing) were tough, but do-able. Don't think I ever quite pulled off the Lord's room solo.

There's this type of situational soloing that's possible.  One instance of this is a rogue in BRD.  There's a weapon in BRD, the Barman's Shanker.  A rogue with a key (granted this key was from a pretty easy group quest) could pretty much run a personal assasination mission to go after a pretty decent (for the time) blue weapon drop.  You'd stealth your way into a bar and take on a somewhat dicey fight with a mage named Plugger.  His rare drop was the Barman's Shanker. Often it would take many runs to get it and could be quite frustrating (kind of like the monk's Raster camp).  But, it was seen as somewhat of a rogue's rite of passage. Many did it even if they'd just bank or shard the weapon.   

Rogues and druids by extension (hey, stealth is powerful!) could also take on a number of other named mobs in the dungeon for some fairly decent drops.

Otherwise, I know warlocks that solo in Dire Maul. Duo of mages that can clear Scholomance.  Mages that are now soloing pretty much the entire undead portion of Strathome.

WoW is just a different beast when it comes to soloing dungeons.  It's possible, just not very lucrative or (like was mentioned) efficient.  You could exp in certain parts of old world EQ dungeons when you got 50+ and in some cases for pretty good exp.  WoW's elite hit too hard and have too many HP to make them slow kills with long downtime.  WoW's dungeons also have longish respawn rates, so you just can't park yourself in a room you've got mastered and pull away for hours.  WoW's dungeons also rarely lend themself to solo or even duo pulls, which was a required for any soloable situation in EQ.

I sometimes go solo Scarlet Monastery for fun.  It's always a good benchmark to see how well I'm progressing with my gear/spec/level.

[Azazel]

There are good quest items that rival the loot from instances, at least while you are levelling up.  At 60, not so much.

In WoW? Pre-BC, I take it you mean? Because in BC the outdoor quest stuff (at least up to 70) very effing good. Not to mention random green drops 60-70 (or 58-70).

[Sky]

I should mention exp isn't really even on my list of concerns. If I'm having fun in an interesting dungeon getting a decent variety of drops every now and again, that's all I really care about.

I never said I didn't like WoW, it's the elite mobs I don't like. WoW is a fun game, I did play to 58 after all. When BC isn't the price of a full game, I'll jump in and play another character up through the ranks, most likely. I should mention, in playing WoW 1-58 (with a few alts up to maybe 20s), my hunter got a single blue drop from some random basilisk in Stranglethorn. That was it for blue drops. One.

Also, that as a necro you were one of the ultimate solo classes.

Exactly my point. That's one reason I chose necromancer (though the whole Lord of the Undead and disease is kinda cool...until you become a mana battery...different rant).

In fact, I'd go so far as to say games should incorporate a solo class that's overpowered, intentionally. Make it so they can't group, can't buff or be buffed by others. Can't trade with others to remove any evil nasty twinkers (I have no problem with twinking). Solo-only class.

I don't consider doing out-levelled content. For games like EQ2, you won't get any drops (and often you will get your ass handed to you for no exp or loot....how exactly does that fit into this vaunted risk vs reward bullshit that passes for anti-solo theory?).

[Azazel]

With all of those caveats in place, I'd suggest you're really after a single player game. Perhaps a SP game with integrated MSN-style chat. Ot alt-tab between them.

[Hound]

Characters created are now at 420k according to VGplayers.com

Just a number, not saying much. But I am keeping track of that number out of curiousity.

I like watching the rollover from 14 to 15 and above myself. At todays was less than 1K. Today there were 39615 players between 15 and 50. 10 ro 50 is 133K. I figure most people actually who have been playing since release  and are still active in the game should have at least one character over 14, not all but most.

[Valmorian]

In WoW? Pre-BC, I take it you mean? Because in BC the outdoor quest stuff (at least up to 70) very effing good. Not to mention random green drops 60-70 (or 58-70).

Yes, I mean Pre-BC. 

[Calantus]

With all of those caveats in place, I'd suggest you're really after a single player game. Perhaps a SP game with integrated MSN-style chat. Ot alt-tab between them.

One thing I've thought I'd really like to see is where the game defaults to solo, but you can bring friends along if you like. If you're solo there are X mobs with Y abilities, and those numbers and abilities scale upward as you add extra players, as do the drops. That to me would be perfect. I like the interaction in MMOGs, even though it often puts me in direct contact with total morons, but I don't like the forced grouping. MMOs are different from lobby games in that you can run into people while out in the world. A lobby game could also have forced grouping and it would still just be a lobby game.