Vanguard: Round 1 - FIGHT!

[Sky]

They slowed it down 3 days into release, as they stealth nerfed XP by one third, apparently to slow down powerlevelers that was about level 35 already and the content for those levels is still locked.

"Hardcore" players will always ruin multiplayer games for casual players. Enjoy killing an extra 33% more rats because Drisst Duh-urden has a box full of poopsocks.

[HaemishM]

They slowed it down 3 days into release, as they stealth nerfed XP by one third, apparently to slow down powerlevelers that was about level 35 already and the content for those levels is still locked. Boards are still screaming for that.

Holy codfuckers. From the first reply to that thread:

*I* disagree with you. I felt I was leveling too fast. And relying far too much on quests to get me through levels, now that I think about it. Yeah.

/boggle

Relying on quests to get through levels was BAD. How the fuck do you even have a mindset like that? Are you saying that you PREFER camping? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

VG is hovering around 100k subs. LOLERS.

[WindupAtheist]

Seems I was way too generous in the prediction thread.  I saw it getting up to 200k before being abandoned and sinking to less than 100k.

[Falconeer]

The outpost near my hunting ground - Veskal's, a major quest hub for 10-15 - has neither mailboxes nor broker/AH NPC.

Veskal's Exchange? There's definitely a mailbox there. Forgive me if you are talking about a different place, but there is a mailbox in Veskal's (Exchange). It's just by the stairs to Veskal's Palace (Main Building). I used it to send away my money as lots of PvP happens there.

[shiznitz]

The outpost near my hunting ground - Veskal's, a major quest hub for 10-15 - has neither mailboxes nor broker/AH NPC.

Veskal's Exchange? There's definitely a mailbox there. Forgive me if you are talking about a different place, but there is a mailbox in Veskal's (Exchange). It's just by the stairs to Veskal's Palace (Main Building). I used it to send away my money as lots of PvP happens there.

I am an idiot then. I looked all over, convinced there HAD to be one and couldn't find it.

[Falconeer]

They slowed it down 3 days into release, as they stealth nerfed XP by one third, apparently to slow down powerlevelers that was about level 35 already and the content for those levels is still locked. Boards are still screaming for that.

Holy codfuckers. From the first reply to that thread:

*I* disagree with you. I felt I was leveling too fast. And relying far too much on quests to get me through levels, now that I think about it. Yeah.

/boggle

Relying on quests to get through levels was BAD. How the fuck do you even have a mindset like that? Are you saying that you PREFER camping? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

VG is hovering around 100k subs. LOLERS.

And there are some "interesting" gentlemen that are loudly asking for a switch to turn off experience...
Those guys scare me.

[Engels]

Fairly common with groups of people that have some members too high for the main group, and want the others to catch up. It was available in EQ, and I believe EQ2 as well.

Veskal's Exchange does have a mail box. What it doesn't have, despite the name, is an exchange broker.

[Oban]

It would be awesome if they made it so that players were punished for killing non-player characters, flora and fauna. Sort of a karma penalty with negative experience points.  I would definitely subscribe to a game like that.

How can any sane person ask for more grind?

[Engels]

Personally, I want Sigil to design a hardware interface for my personal testicle electrocuter so every time I level, I am sharply reminded of how bad and wicked of me it is to do so.

[Quinton]

The irony is that this is Vanguard's own doing. If their banking system had actually been implimented correctly, and after implementation hadn't been buggy as crap, people wouldn't be forced to transfer their coin to placeholder toons.

Also, the sum of 7 gold isn't that high. A crafter guildmate of mine, who, admittedly is grinding like a starved peasant in an internet cafe, has made 3 gold on his own in the last 2 weeks. Considering Vanguard catered to catasses in organized uberguilds specifically 7 gold is a meaningless sum.

The thing I find the most amusing about those threads regarding the "too much gold" suspensions is all the people rushing to defend them.  I mean *obviously* these accounts must mostly be goldsellers and nobody would ever have a reason to have that kind of vast wealth on an alt if they weren't trying to ruin the economy.

Broken game.  Broken playerbase.

- Q

[Oban]

Personally, I want Sigil to design a hardware interface for my personal testicle electrocuter so every time I level, I am sharply reminded of how bad and wicked of me it is to do so.

Dong-gratz

[Margalis]

Why not give people a personal slider that allows them to adjust their XP gains downward? Everyone starts at the same level but if you are levelling too fast just dial it back.

Oh wait, I know why. Because those same players are often passive-aggressive competitive pricks that don't want anyone else doing "better" than they are.

---

The money thing is funny. How about ask for an explanation first, *then* ban?

It's like they are trying to drive away subs.

[Afropuff]

Personally, I want Sigil to design a hardware interface for my personal testicle electrocuter so every time I level, I am sharply reminded of how bad and wicked of me it is to do so.

Dong-gratz

Vanguard fun - YAY!

[Simond]

The funny/sad thing about Brad's vague* 100K number is that he seems to think that VG is going to follow the EQ subs curve - slow & steady increase to a certain point, then a plateau with a gradual decline. Thing is, that'll only work if there's good word-of-mouth (see: EQ back when their competition was UO & AC, WoW now, EVE-O to a certain extent although that's probably gone now) whereas it's a pretty good assumption that the majority of people who were interested in playing the game have already bought it and subbed. The game might scrape up another 25K-50K subs (although I sort of doubt it), but it's going to be downhill from there. Go ask Smed how EQ2 did post-launch.

*Brad never specified whether it was 100K subs, or 100K box sales.

[Engels]

I think its a little bit too soon to tell. If they are working like fiends over the next few months to not simply fix glaring bugs, but also do such things as provide more than 3 stock hair graphics for all humanoid races, code in the helm graphics, provide MUCH better newbie Diplomacy and Crafting tutorials, we may see the steady increase hoped for by Sigil. If on the other hand they are lacadaisically resting on their unearned laurels and only patching critical game stopping problems, current players' patience is probably going to wear thin within a month.

[ajax34i]

So they'd be working like fiends for several months for exactly how big of an increase in pay/profit?   Will it even return the investment after the increase?

EDIT:  Nevermind, they could be as masochistic as their playerbase is.

[Simond]

*Brad never specified whether it was 100K subs, or 100K box sales.

Over on FoH, Nino clarifies. Over 100K box sales, no word on subs.

[Lt.Dan]

What would the difference be at this stage? Digital downloads?  Surely in the first month box sales = subs (since you have to provide a CC number to activate your account).

[Simond]

What would the difference be at this stage? Digital downloads?  Surely in the first month box sales = subs (since you have to provide a CC number to activate your account).

You'd think so, but MMOGs always have more box sales than subscriptions.

[Oban]

Yes, a lot of people do not realize that the majority of new online games require a broadband connection and/or a monthly recurring fee.

[Hound]

*Brad never specified whether it was 100K subs, or 100K box sales.

Over on FoH, Nino clarifies. Over 100K box sales, no word on subs.

So I assume Nino is Brad or a Sigil employee? Once again I look at the Vanguard players database and call BS since there are only 76K characters at lvl 11 or above and a few of those have to be buddy keys. Only way they sold 100k boxes is if 50K of those people played to level 5 and said fuck this and uninstalled it.

[Rodivar]

This title will have even more "Box sold no subscription" due to the hardware issue.  Some (allot) of people with full intentions of playing the game just won't be able too due to the hardware requirements. 

In the end it may not be slow leveling, tedium, death punishment, spawn camping, broken boats or empty landscapes that hurt the game most, in the end it may  be something as pedestrian as people not being able to play the game with their hardware. 

Blizzard is looking smarter all the time, swallow your ego, reduce the eye candy and eleminate hardware as a potential veto vote for your game. 

[Morat20]

What would the difference be at this stage? Digital downloads?  Surely in the first month box sales = subs (since you have to provide a CC number to activate your account).

You'd think so, but MMOGs always have more box sales than subscriptions.

Lots of people buy it, play it, never sub. You get that "free month" after all.

[Azazel]

That was my DAOC experience too. Though as noted, you do need to put in a CC number. Because, you know, BUYING their fucking games isn't a good enough reason to let you play....

[Merusk]

What would the difference be at this stage? Digital downloads?  Surely in the first month box sales = subs (since you have to provide a CC number to activate your account).

You'd think so, but MMOGs always have more box sales than subscriptions.

Lots of people buy it, play it, never sub. You get that "free month" after all.

Several times Raph's mentioned that there's folks that buy it, and never even install it or hit their server for a login. IIRC he mentioned it happening to SWG as well as UO. 

[Trippy]

That was my DAOC experience too. Though as noted, you do need to put in a CC number. Because, you know, BUYING their fucking games isn't a good enough reason to let you play....

Yup, companies like to take advantage of the "inertia factor" in human nature by making customers do extra work to opt-out of things knowing that many people won't or will delay doing doing it for a myriad of reasons. With paid subscriptions companies couch this as a "convenience" to users so that their service is "uninterrupted" but really they are just interested in sponging that extra money off of people who don't cancel in time.

[Cadaverine]

That was my DAOC experience too. Though as noted, you do need to put in a CC number. Because, you know, BUYING their fucking games isn't a good enough reason to let you play....

Yup, companies like to take advantage of the "inertia factor" in human nature by making customers do extra work to opt-out of things knowing that many people won't or will delay doing doing it for a myriad of reasons. With paid subscriptions companies couch this as a "convenience" to users so that their service is "uninterrupted" but really they are just interested in sponging that extra money off of people who don't cancel in time.

Reading through the thread reminded me to cancel before I got billed for the first month.  After I clicked the cancel sub button, it brought me to a screen that required me to put in my place of birth to cancel my subscription.  I'm just glad that I had actually entered the correct city at some point, rather than gibberish, or I'd still be trying to get my sub canceled in 2010.

[Lt.Dan]

Reading through the thread reminded me to cancel before I got billed for the first month.  After I clicked the cancel sub button, it brought me to a screen that required me to put in my place of birth to cancel my subscription.  I'm just glad that I had actually entered the correct city at some point, rather than gibberish, or I'd still be trying to get my sub canceled in 2010.

Tinfoil much?  You're buying a service, why make life harder than you need to?  It's not like you're giving your details to some shonky provider - they've done this a few hundred thousand times....

[Morat20]

Reading through the thread reminded me to cancel before I got billed for the first month.  After I clicked the cancel sub button, it brought me to a screen that required me to put in my place of birth to cancel my subscription.  I'm just glad that I had actually entered the correct city at some point, rather than gibberish, or I'd still be trying to get my sub canceled in 2010.

Tinfoil much?  You're buying a service, why make life harder than you need to?  It's not like you're giving your details to some shonky provider - they've done this a few hundred thousand times....

I routinely give every online service the wrong birthdate. (Right year, right month, wrong day). I just always use the same one. That was something of a problem when my yahoo account got phished, as apparently I'd given them the wrong city and it took me weeks to figure out the answer to me "secret question". (Here's a hint -- if you use an oblique reference to a family pet, it helps to remember WHEN you got the account. Turns out the account was at least two years older than I thought, and I was referring to my mother's dog -- not one of mine).

[Hound]

Reading through the thread reminded me to cancel before I got billed for the first month.  After I clicked the cancel sub button, it brought me to a screen that required me to put in my place of birth to cancel my subscription.  I'm just glad that I had actually entered the correct city at some point, rather than gibberish, or I'd still be trying to get my sub canceled in 2010.

Tinfoil much?  You're buying a service, why make life harder than you need to?  It's not like you're giving your details to some shonky provider - they've done this a few hundred thousand times....

I routinely give every online service the wrong birthdate. (Right year, right month, wrong day). I just always use the same one. That was something of a problem when my yahoo account got phished, as apparently I'd given them the wrong city and it took me weeks to figure out the answer to me "secret question". (Here's a hint -- if you use an oblique reference to a family pet, it helps to remember WHEN you got the account. Turns out the account was at least two years older than I thought, and I was referring to my mother's dog -- not one of mine).

I guess you could put me in the dip shit category, I had to have my credit card company issue me a new number to cancel with SOE after I typed in every conceivable way to spell my hometown ( first letter capitaized, all capitals, all lower case etc)

[Signe]

I use my name for everything and then all of Righ's info just in case he wants to use my stuff.  Things such as what city I was born in, my mother's maiden name, my father's middle name, etc,  are exactly the sort of thing he forgets.

[Stormwaltz]

So I assume Nino is Brad or a Sigil employee?

I believe "Nino" is the soundtrack composer, Todd Masten.

[Azazel]

Yup, companies like to take advantage of the "inertia factor" in human nature by making customers do extra work to opt-out of things knowing that many people won't or will delay doing doing it for a myriad of reasons. With paid subscriptions companies couch this as a "convenience" to users so that their service is "uninterrupted" but really they are just interested in sponging that extra money off of people who don't cancel in time.

Point. I have a friend who is still subscribed to EverQuest1, with I think an annual recurring sub. Despite not having played for nearly 2 years...

 

[Venkman]

I generally use a made-up birthdate too (and name/address if that's an option), but I always use the same one. Keeps things simple.

It's not so much about tinfoil hats as much as it is understanding technology just enough to know how stupid some people can be with it. There's a crapload of MMOs out there with billing systems that only vaguely remember something I built in Hypercard 20 years ago. Most times the right information isn't needed, so why unnecessarily volunteer it?

[Nebu]

Gave this game an honest second week with a friend.  I'm out.  Game-breaking bugs + grind that would make a Lineage player cry = Not for me. 

Saw much of the world... that was enough.  I gave it my best and I'm sorry I gave them my money.  I feel dirty.