Battlestar Galactica (spoilers/speculation)

[Riggswolfe]

D'Anna(Model 3) saw all the Cylons in the Temple of Jupiter.  Baltar isn't one of them.

But if memory serves we, the audience, don't know what she saw so it could still be Baltar.

[tazelbain]

D'Anna(Model 3) saw all the Cylons in the Temple of Jupiter.  Baltar isn't one of them.

But if memory serves we, the audience, don't know what she saw so it could still be Baltar.

Dammit you are right!  I thought D'anna confirmed he wasn't a Cylon just before she died.  But it'd be a punk move to make Baltar a cylon. Season 4 could get real ugly if they start pulling out hack moves like this.

[Riggswolfe]

D'Anna(Model 3) saw all the Cylons in the Temple of Jupiter.  Baltar isn't one of them.

But if memory serves we, the audience, don't know what she saw so it could still be Baltar.

Dammit you are right!  I thought D'anna confirmed he wasn't a Cylon just before she died.  But it'd be a punk move to make Baltar a cylon. Season 4 could get real ugly if they start pulling out hack moves like this.

I don't think he will be one simply because it is too obvious. I am also ruling out any of the Adamas. Other than that it's a wide open field. I would relish the irony if President "Kick them out of the Airlock" Roslin was one though.

[Yegolev]

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Que. Eff. Tee.

[Yegolev]

No, see the Cylons are adjacent to the leaders, not one of them.  Tigh to Adama, Indian Girl to Roslin, Anders to Starbuck.  I attribute bad math to the chief.  So Adama can't be one.

[Riggswolfe]

No, see the Cylons are adjacent to the leaders, not one of them.  Tigh to Adama, Indian Girl to Roslin, Anders to Starbuck.  I attribute bad math to the chief.  So Adama can't be one.

I hadn't thought about that. So who would that leave as the final one? *thinks* Gaeta maybe? Lee?

[Jain Zar]

Baltar is the Cylon messiah.

Baltar is a pimp.  And that's why it worked for me.  He is genuinely trying to redeem his worthless self serving ass, yet he is more than happy to get some lovvin from the flock at the same time.
He had a look on his face like "Shit, these people are crazier than I am!  HAY BOOBS!  YAAAY!".

[croaker69]

The one element of the "Final five" that I don't get is Tigh.  Adama has known him since the first war.  So there have been humanoid cylons since around much longer than the humans realize even at this point in the story.

Another dangling plot point (for me at least) is the relationships between the factions of cyclons.  We have the original group at war with the humans during the first war.  Were there other groups already in existence at this point or are all the known and suspected factions a result of a schism after the cylons disappeared when the first war ended.  At this point I'm suspicious that humans may not have invented the original cylons at all.  Perhaps a humanoid model invented or directed the invention of the first machine models while posing as a human.

[Lum]

Ron Moore has said that the final Cylon is NOT in the pic posted last page. Mind you, he could be lying.

Could be Gaeta? Not really that high impact, though. Could be Tom Zarrek. I like that theory, and Zarrek could be the Count Iblis/Lucifer figure from the original series. I know Richard Hatch would LOVE hamming it up like that, but I suspect they have Starbuck earmarked for that role based on the heavy handed spolier at the end of Razor.

Also, one of the actors (think it was Katie Sackhoff) says that they'll find Earth much sooner than anyone expects, so I strongly suspect that they will end up in orbit in the mid-season cliffhanger, and that Something Is Wrong with it -- it's a post-apocalyptic wreck, or devoid of life, or Cylon raiders fly up from the ground to meet them, or something similarly *clevah*. I absolutely do NOT expect them to show up all Galactica 1980 style flying motor scooters over California. Although that would be AWESOME.

Also, my guess on the end of the series is a massive Crossing of the Streams and the Good Cylons and the Good Humans (Adama, Roslin, Caprica 6, Boomer) fight the Bad Cylons and the Bad Humans (Baltar Manson and his Flower People, remnants of whatever bad Cylons are left) over New New Caprica on Earth, and they all go off to make 12 new colonies at the closing credits. All happens before, all happens again, etc.

[Lum]

Another dangling plot point (for me at least) is the relationships between the factions of cyclons.  We have the original group at war with the humans during the first war.  Were there other groups already in existence at this point or are all the known and suspected factions a result of a schism after the cylons disappeared when the first war ended.  At this point I'm suspicious that humans may not have invented the original cylons at all.  Perhaps a humanoid model invented or directed the invention of the first machine models while posing as a human.

There were zero Cylon factions prior to the series timeline - they were machines, after all.

During the series, the humanoid Cylons became more 'human' - and with that came fighting. First "Caprica 6", the only model to have an individual name, and her 'faction' of let's not actually nuke the humans until they glow, instead let's hug them and pet them and call them George. That didn't really work out. Then you had the rogue 3 model that went all trippy suicidal, and the one played by Dean Stockwell that's literally blaspheming all over the place from an overdose of cynicism. Apparently, based on previews, this is all going to break out into a flat-out shooting war between the Cylons once it hits them that the human fleet contains the Final Five models (well Final Four, anyway).

[Margalis]

I've watched about half of the BSG episodes, couple questions for someone to answer:

1. What is Earth? Is it just myth? Is it some place they colonized a long time ago but then forgot about somehow? Is it the birthplace of humanity? From watching it seems to be pure mythology. How do they know there is an Earth at all?

2. Why don't the main cylons know who the final 5 are?

[Ookii]

Yeah, Mr. Moore apparently said it won't be any of the more notable characters, in fact he said, "Even if you guess correctly it was still only a guess".

I think it's Doc Cottle.

2. Why don't the main cylons know who the final 5 are?

You'll know in the first episode of season 4!

[Johny Cee]

D'Anna(Model 3) saw all the Cylons in the Temple of Jupiter.  Baltar isn't one of them.

But if memory serves we, the audience, don't know what she saw so it could still be Baltar.

Dammit you are right!  I thought D'anna confirmed he wasn't a Cylon just before she died.  But it'd be a punk move to make Baltar a cylon. Season 4 could get real ugly if they start pulling out hack moves like this.

Wait, wait.

I distinctly remember Baltar interrogating a D'anna who knew/could see the final five cylons,  and asking if he was one.  Baltar knew that if he was actually a cylon,  he wouldn't be a traitor to his species who had collaborated in genocide.

Being a cylon was Baltar's way out of the guilt.  D'anna told him he wasn't. 


Baltar being a cylon would completely fuck his character arc, especially since he's entering the redemption phase of it.

[Lum]

1. What is Earth? Is it just myth? Is it some place they colonized a long time ago but then forgot about somehow? Is it the birthplace of humanity? From watching it seems to be pure mythology. How do they know there is an Earth at all?

Short version: Earth is scriptural myth that turns out to be true.

Long version: Earth is the "lost tribe" colony that went in one direction from Kobol (the "birthplace of the gods") while the other 12 colonies went the other. Many (including Adama, most of the time) believe Earth to be a fairy tale. As part of the miniseries opener (which you really should watch if you haven't), Adama tells the fleet "we're going to Earth to link up with the final human colony, because as a commanding officer I have the secret location!". Which he promptly tells Roslin that he doesn't, he's lying his ass off to give people a reason to keep going. However, as part of the first season, the fleet finds Kobol, which is the supposed birthplace of humanity (which, btw, is straight from Mormon scripture, which Glen Larson based the original Galactica on), and finds clues that the scriptures actually are all that and humans left for Earth. Since then they've followed the occasional clues and portents to keep them moving in the right direction.

Wiki version: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Earth_%28RDM%29

[tazelbain]

And Earth was shown at the end of season 3.  It looks like our Earth, at least from space.

[Lum]

I think it's Doc Cottle.

Ooh, that's a good one. Especially considering Number 3's "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know" line. The only human she was shown screwing with on air (other than Baltar, hurr hurr) was Cottle. Of course, that assumes the writers actually knew that when they wrote Season 3, which is a HUGE stretch these days.

[Venkman]

Ok episode but yea the Starbuck thing bothered me with it's Bermuda Triangle thing. But what bothered me most is that she's trusted enough to have a light escort around the ship but not trusted enough to be given a Raptor and some accountable witnesses to try the route again.

My own guess on the 5th is the Richard Hatch character.

Apparently, based on previews, this is all going to break out into a flat-out shooting war between the Cylons once it hits them that the human fleet contains the Final Five models (well Final Four, anyway).

I think this last episode confirmed all five are on the Galactica, but I just erased it from the DVR so can't confirm.

There were zero Cylon factions prior to the series timeline - they were machines, after all.

Do you include Razor in that timeline? I ask because that included the "Faction" (if you will) of the genetically engineered cyborg guy.

[tazelbain]

Three knows Anders from his time as a terrorist on Caprica.

[Margalis]

You'll know in the first episode of season 4!

I watched it, must have missed that part, was doing work at the same time. So again, why don't the Cylons know who the final 5 are?

[Samwise]

I thought the memory of the final 5 had been erased from the rest, as well as the reason that the memory had been erased. 

In other words, the writers probably don't know yet, but hopefully it'll all be wrapped up once the last one is revealed and we start getting some inkling of what their purpose is.

[Triforcer]

I smell an M. Night Shymalan-style twist coming up.  It will turn out that in the last Cylon war, the Cylons got ALL humans.  But the Final Five (smartest of the bunch) reasoned that they needed enemies to keep them sharp.  So they produced the colonial fleet, seeded themselves into it, and then erased the memory of the true end of the war from everyone. 

[Samwise]

So, the same shitty ending as the last couple of Matrix movies then?

I hope you're wrong, but I'm afraid you're right.   

[Merusk]

I think it's Doc Cottle.

Ooh, that's a good one. Especially considering Number 3's "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know" line. The only human she was shown screwing with on air (other than Baltar, hurr hurr) was Cottle. Of course, that assumes the writers actually knew that when they wrote Season 3, which is a HUGE stretch these days.

Ever since that episode aired, I've taken the apology to be directed at Tigh. Hell, I called Tigh as a Cylon as soon as I saw that. She was the one who took his eye, after all, and the only one she really had anything to apologize in such a manner to.

[Lum]

You'll know in the first episode of season 4!

I watched it, must have missed that part, was doing work at the same time. So again, why don't the Cylons know who the final 5 are?

They have a mental block. Six when talking to Roslin said something to the effect of "we aren't supposed to think of it.", which Roslin promply mocked in pure James T. Kirk "if you're thinking about not thinking about it, you're thinking about it" style. Three was boxed because she thought about it a LOT and repeatedly suicided/reincarnated because she thought she was catching glimpses of them between life and death.

I didn't know they clearly established Three was the one who poked out Tigh's eye.

[Ookii]

I think it's Doc Cottle.

Ooh, that's a good one. Especially considering Number 3's "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know" line. The only human she was shown screwing with on air (other than Baltar, hurr hurr) was Cottle. Of course, that assumes the writers actually knew that when they wrote Season 3, which is a HUGE stretch these days.

Ever since that episode aired, I've taken the apology to be directed at Tigh. Hell, I called Tigh as a Cylon as soon as I saw that. She was the one who took his eye, after all, and the only one she really had anything to apologize in such a manner to.

Didn't Ty serve with Adama during the Mars war or whatnot?  I thought that was way before the Cylons became a problem in the first place.  I figured they replaced him as a Cylon when he was imprisoned and took his eye to make the whole story believable.

[Margalis]

Do they actually replace people like that? They aren't pod people. I thought the Cylons had a specific look, not that they custom-built them. If they replaced him that would mean they built a new Cylon model to look like him which doesn't seem to match with anything else.

[Riggswolfe]

Whatever happened to hybrid baby btw?

[tazelbain]

Chief has a baby now so there are 2 half-cylons unless Cali cheated.

[Yegolev]

The final Cylon is on Earth already.  He has a very low approval rating.  Hoverbikes.

[HaemishM]

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Danke.

[Mrbloodworth]

Anyone but me notice that the series is shaping up to recreate some of the biblical mythos?

Baltar = jesus. Polytheistic religions going bye bye, here comes the mono.

EDIT: also someone mentioned that there were no factions before this shows time line. I recall the Hybrid cylon, adama, and the FIRST cylon war (Apparently the original series, sorta....  )

[Roac]

Anyone but me notice that the series is shaping up to recreate some of the biblical mythos?

Baltar = jesus. Polytheistic religions going bye bye, here comes the mono.

I think it would be hard not to - they were heavy handed with the Jesus motif in Baltar.  What I think is more fun is how they've broken with that notion; Baltar was up to be crucified, but he was released by Pilate (Adama).  He never died, and was not resurrected.  Kara, however, did and was.  Baltar is doing miracles anyway and has an "angel" in his head.  Kara is the herald of the apocalypse (per the hybrid), which is similar to ideas on the second comming.  Note, apocalypse isn't intended to be entirely negative; it's the end of the current world, but the beginning of a new one.  Between what the hybrid said and Kara's inner compass, it strongly suggests that she really does know the way to Earth.  Whether the fleet will want Earth once they find it is another question.  Also, 12 colonies, 12 cylons, 12 disciples, with the Baltar/Kara Jesus thing.

Nothing suggests that God is benign, though.  According to legends of the Lords of Kobol, there was one god who deigned to place himself over the others.  The trouble at Kobol was due to the gods fighting, and eventually throwing out one of their own (or one of their own leaving on its own).  If that one is the same as the Cylon God, it has a role similar to Lucifer (the Count?).  If they are not, there could be a more interesting relationship between Head Baltar and Head Six, who at the moment have taken on roles of demon and angel, respectively.  Also, creating and directing advanced Cylons that lead an army to murder tens of billions of humans and nearly exterminating the species doesn't on the surface look all that kind. 

Personally, I think half of all that is just the writers having fun with people who think too much on it.  The other half will matter.

[tazelbain]

And Jesus, by all accounts, not a complete douchebag like Baltar. 

I like the Apocalyse theme and go with Baltar as the anti-Christ, a false Messiah.

[Margalis]

Aren't the 12 tribes directly analogous to the 12 tribes of the Jews in the old testament?

[Oban]

Aren't the 12 tribes directly analogous to the 12 tribes of the Jews in the old testament?