Battlestar Galactica (spoilers/speculation)

[Triforcer]

Were there clues as to the identity of the fifth?  I wasn't paying attention to who else in the episode would mysteriously stop and look around.  

EDIT: @ Evilelvis:  William Shatner as a Cylon would be total gold. 

[Evil Elvis]

Were there clues as to the identity of the fifth?  I wasn't paying attention to who else in the episode would mysteriously stop and look around.

Edit: Blah, I can't remember how to make tiny text.  Quote me to see who.

[size=0pt]Miss IveBeenToEarthAndIBroughtAMap, aka starbuck[/size]

[Abagadro]

I remember how pissed people were with the "jump forward" at the end of the last season, which ultimately set up one of the coolest episodes of sci-fi T.V. ever (the rescue) so I will put my faith in Moore.

[Yegolev]

What Lum said.  Also Lee finally did something cool in his own whiny way.  But in the end, and I know I've said this before, but this time I really mean it: I don't get it.

My wife says that they aren't, they just think they are.  I think I agree.  As for the song, we are both confused.

At least they have NINE MONTHS to write themselves out of this.

[Surlyboi]

My take on the song is similar to the way the original series ended, with them getting a transmission of the Apollo 11 landing and no one there to see it. I have a feeling they're starting to hit Earth's radio wake.

Spoliage possibly below

Of course, where that puts Earth timeframewise is anyone's guess. All Along the Watchtower was released originally in '67. This version is obviously not that one, but something newer. That said, who knows how long it's been floating out there and exactly how far away they are from Earth. From the looks of the zoom-out, zoom-in, they're a spiral arm over. Of course I could be wrong.

[Yegolev]

Just pulling a year out of my hat... 1980?

[tazelbain]

In the 4th season, they run into this guy.

[Abagadro]

Just pulling a year out of my hat... 1980?

Flying motorcycles!

[Roac]

Surlyboi, not everyone uses the black background, fyi :P 

[Surlyboi]

Well, they should 

[Bunk]

Were there clues as to the identity of the fifth?  I wasn't paying attention to who else in the episode would mysteriously stop and look around.  

EDIT: @ Evilelvis:  William Shatner as a Cylon would be total gold. 

Well, the obvious guess, and what I assumed, was that the person who had the last line in the episode = five.

Lum - you are brilliantly witty as always.

Personally, I loved it. Third act completely caught me off guard, everything seemed to be leading to a rather lack luster ending, but damn did they pull some fucked up shit out.

I decided to watch Battlestar's finale first and then Rome second. I picked the wrong order I think. Mind you, my PVR cust Rome off at the one hour mark, and it seems there was a bit more to go, so I'll need to get filled in on the closing details.

[Kitsune]

Wait just a goddamn second, that doesn't make sense.  The alleged fifth of the final five had a childhood.  And not a fake one, but one that other people had witnessed.  Cylons don't grow up, they get popped out as adults.  As for the other four, on top of it making no sense that Bob Dylan songs were involved, age becomes a weird factor for one.  The Cylons haven't shown any inclination towards aging; they seem to be fairly fixed at the 'age' of their design, but there would've been no way to get around arousing suspicion in that case.

[Merusk]

I don't buy who y'all are speaking of for the 5th.  There was another hint in the episode, much earlier.  That's who I was betting on.

As for "Watchtower,"  I always think of Hendrix, not Dylan.  Most folks do, I'd wager... even Dylan.  Besides, that'd make the Cylons much more PC... the token black Cylon!  :-D

[Roac]

Wait just a goddamn second, that doesn't make sense.  The alleged fifth of the final five had a childhood.  And not a fake one, but one that other people had witnessed.  Cylons don't grow up, they get popped out as adults.  As for the other four, on top of it making no sense that Bob Dylan songs were involved, age becomes a weird factor for one.  The Cylons haven't shown any inclination towards aging; they seem to be fairly fixed at the 'age' of their design, but there would've been no way to get around arousing suspicion in that case.

I was flipping through the web Q&A on the scifi website, and two of the ones with Grace (Boomer) stuck out.  One, she flat out denied the idea that Cylons had only been infiltrating the colonies for "a few years" (this was in response to a Q about who couldn't be a Cylon because of that rule).  It seems that what we think the rules are, aren't the rules.  The other one was where she let slip that Kara was possibly a Cylon.  She said it so quick, covered it up, and was vague enough that I don't think I'd have picked up on it if I'd seen the interview before Maelstorm, but I think that's where she was going with her answer. 

[Jayce]

As for "Watchtower,"  I always think of Hendrix, not Dylan.  Most folks do, I'd wager... even Dylan.  Besides, that'd make the Cylons much more PC... the token black Cylon!  :-D

There's already a black Cylon - the doctor guy from "The Farm".  Speaking of the farm, they (the Cylons) were certainly barking up the wrong tree in that one.

[Roac]

Well, maybe.  I mean, we don't know for sure. 

[Yegolev]

So far, any scenario I have come up with in which those four are not Cylons is just batshit insane.  However, one is that the Final Five are not actually Cylons.  I will fill in the rest after I find some drugs.  The notion that the known fleshies don't have any idea who those guys are means that they really could be anything.  I had assumed prototypical models, but now I'm remembering the Data/Lore nuttiness in ST:TNG and thinking those five could be something else entirely.

As for the end of the end, I'm not convinced.  Yeah, there's the dradis blip... I don't know.  It's fucked up.  Lucy has some splainin to do.

[Abagadro]

You guys are overlooking the fact that there is an obvious schism in the cylons as the "seven" don't even know who the "five" are. Thus trying to apply the same "rules" doesn't do any good.  My guess is that the 5 are evolved as far away from the 7 as the 7 are evolved away from the mech units. Picking up on my earlier theme, I would bet they don't resurect into copies, but instead resurect into individual people through spiritual awakening and thus the "five" are more metaphysical than corporeal and can thus be far more than just five people. 


Or, I'm talking out of my ass.

[Soln]

maybe Earth is the Cylon homeworld?  heard it here f1rst!

[Lum]

I don't buy who y'all are speaking of for the 5th.  There was another hint in the episode, much earlier.  That's who I was betting on.

If the show still gave a crap about internal consistency and logical mysteries, then I'd say a character who had a visceral reaction just before the Mysterious Power Outage would be a strong clue. But hell, man, Bob Dylan. Why bother.

[Nevermore]

Hey, it could have been worse!  Just imagine if the Cylon radio tuners were picking up Britney Spears instead of Dylan.  Just imagine Tigh humming along to 'Oops, I did it again'.

[Roac]

If the show still gave a crap about internal consistency and logical mysteries, then I'd say a character who had a visceral reaction just before the Mysterious Power Outage would be a strong clue. But hell, man, Bob Dylan. Why bother.

That's why I mentioned what I did about not knowing for sure.  I wonder if this character isn't the last Cylon.  I doubt it, because it seems out of place for the background but.... *shrug*.  I figure this one or the other (obvious) cannidate.

Oh, for those interested - MAJOR SPOILERS - read this link.  Ron Moore answers some questions about this episode.  

[Numtini]

For once I watched this when it aired rather than the week after so I'm not dodging spoilers. Count me as having loved the episode. Though the courtroom annoyed me. (I believe there's an unsettled motion for mistrial?)

I've joined the 7 and 5 are two different cylon civilizations club and I'm with Soln, just substitute "a" for "the"

[Yegolev]

We're dusting off the flying motorcycles, man. We have some great ideas for those babies.

keke

[Riggswolfe]

R: We've never seen a child in Cylon society. Am I right that there are no pure Cylon children?

RM: That's true.

This would seem to rule out errr..the suspect from the final scene. Do we know for certain this character had a childhood? Did any major character know this person before they were in the fleet?

[Jayce]

R: We've never seen a child in Cylon society. Am I right that there are no pure Cylon children?

RM: That's true.

This would seem to rule out errr..the suspect from the final scene. Do we know for certain this character had a childhood? Did any major character know this person before they were in the fleet?

We saw her hallucinate her childhood self in the cockpit of her viper in her "final" episode.  But that could have been implanted memories.  But I have another theory, which I'll expound upon shortly.

[Evil Elvis]

(I believe there's an unsettled motion for mistrial?)

Yes, and it annoyed me as well.

[Abagadro]

Lee refused to tesify about what Admiral Adama said so there were no grounds supporting the motion. They could have said "motion denied" but after his testimony there wasn't really any need for it.

[Yegolev]

WHAT SYSTEM!? YA'LL'S GOTS TA BE FLEXIBLE, MANG!

I took that as a limp attempt at deux ex machina to end the trial.  A courtroom version of jumping into New Caprica's atmosphere, if you will.  Can't say I'm sorry to see the trial plot go, I kept imagining Colin Baker on the stand, episode after episode.

[Riggswolfe]

In regards to Jayce:

That is why I asked if anyone currently on the show knew this person as a child. We've seen fake memories before.

[Bunk]

Well, based on the history presented already about some of the characters that were revealed as Cylons, we know that at least one of them has been around for at least 20 years in the presence of other humans, and has visibly aged in that time frame. I can't think of any references to anyone knowing any of the revealed characters as children though.

I don't think they have ever actually said if the 7 Cylons visibly age or not, but I had assumed they don't noticlibly, since the clones all appear the same age. I will have to assume that the original five do age however. Which is plausible given that they are fundimentally different from the 7.

[Lum]

Well, in case you were still trying to rack your brain over whether or not Bob Dylan was a Cylon, you can stop. From the soundtrack composer's website:

I happened to catch Ron Moore in the hallway at Universal and, in a brief conversation, got everything I needed to know. I learned that the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters' universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics. Perhaps this unknown performer and Dylan pulled inspiration from a common, ethereal source. Therefore, I was told to make no musical references to any "Earthly" versions, Hendrix, Dylan or any others. The arrangement needed to sound like a pop song that belonged in the Galactica universe, not our own.

Ooookay then. So, obviously Ron Moore believes we can suspend somewhat more belief than is credible. Suspend disbelief that the denizens of the Colonies have similar clothing, oddly familiar laptop computers, the same written language... these things we are trained to suspend disbelief in with shows set in alien cultures, because otherwise it's a lot of work to try to figure out totally alien variants (and get in the way of storytelling). But expecting us to just take a song that's a key part of the plot, and that's something most of the audience is familiar with already, and just expect us to buy that it's a part of that other universe... oooookay then, Wachowskis, you go!

[Daeven]

I don't think they have ever actually said if the 7 Cylons visibly age or not, but I had assumed they don't noticlibly, since the clones all appear the same age. I will have to assume that the original five do age however. Which is plausible given that they are fundimentally different from the 7.

Well, obviously they age until they remort as a newer model

[Fordel]

Slightly off topic, but have they ever explained why books/paper in BSG have no corners?

[Ironwood]

Oh, for those interested - MAJOR SPOILERS - read this link.  Ron Moore answers some questions about this episode.  

Wow.  I think I'll just give up watching where I am.

Sigh.