Pope declares video games evil

[taolurker]

Gamespot

Catholic News complete with popups

[stray]

I'm pretty sure that buggering little kids + coercing them to keep silent about it is much worse than even the most tastless video game.

That being said, some games are bad for kids, yeah. That's what ratings are for.

[taolurker]

“Any trend to produce programs and products – including animated films and video games – which in the name of entertainment exalt violence and portray anti-social behavior or the trivialization of human sexuality is a perversion, all the more repulsive when these programs are directed at children and adolescents,” Pope Benedict said.

Or more what the Pope said is game developers are evil.

[HaemishM]

So how many Hail Mary's is playing GTA worth?

[Paelos]

Meh he's right about pandering murder4fun games to kids. I'm not sure he's entirely wrong about the kind of people producing overly violent games as having a shakey moral compass. However, I do know he's doing the typical religious institution crap of speaking in absolutes about society that have no base in scripture.

[tazelbain]

He's the freaking Pope.  He doesn't need a basis in scripture.

[Yoru]

“Any trend to produce programs and products – including animated films and video games – which in the name of entertainment exalt violence and portray anti-social behavior or the trivialization of human sexuality is a perversion, all the more repulsive when these programs are directed at children and adolescents,” Pope Benedict said.

I'm pretty sure that buggering little kids + coercing them to keep silent about it is much worse than even the most tastless video game.

The irony, she is delicious. :-D

[taolurker]

Just finished reading the complete version of what he spoke about for the 41st World Communications Day, in its entirety at the Vatican's website (which is predicting the future and has the wrong date at the top).

The main part of his message was directed at media in general, and of course parents, and their responsibility to protect children.

I didn't say I disagreed either, just heard this blurb on the news terming video games and media that portray violence or sexuality as perversions and then wondered what the board community would think of being called pervs.

[stray]

Anyways, most of these games AREN'T targetting children (or movies, or music, etc..). Someone should clue him in on the average age of gamers. Link

I will say that I'd actually prefer more games that uphold positivity (not "religious" mind you.....I mean, Mario and Kirby are bubbly and positive, right? Or hell, even Star Trek games are positive). Not everything should revolve around blowing off people's limbs or ripping out the spinal cord of your opponents. But adults are adults. Adults are self guiding creatures. And the Catholic church (and evangelicals for that matter) pretty much has zero "moral" credibility to speak to the public about anything at this point (maintain your own house....then come back in 20 years. Maybe people will forget your douchebaggery by then).

[WayAbvPar]

He must have been pissed when I tried to whack him in M II:TW.

[Jayce]

Anyways, most of these games AREN'T targetting children (or movies, or music, etc..). Someone should clue him in on the average age of gamers. Link

You guys are reading a hell of a lot into what he said.

He didn't say that all games are aimed at children and furthermore all games are evil.  He said essentially, games that are evil* are bad, and especially when they are aimed at children.

So how many Hail Mary's is playing GTA worth?

Interestingly, he doesn't say not to play them.  He says not to make them.  Presumably (if this communication were in a vacuum) you are free to play all you want once they're made.


*ie, promote evil as the Church sees it; to wit, trivialization of sexuality and anti-social behavior.

[Sky]

Religion is the bad kind of silly. Stop it, already.

[Nebu]

Violent video games exist because there is a market for them.  It all goes back to the consumer.  As for kids playing them, I blame parents... whether they be the child's parents or the parents of the child that my child is sneaking over to the house to in order to play them. 

Video games (TV and dvd's) are entertainment, not babysitters. 

[HaemishM]

then wondered what the board community would think of being called pervs.

I'd say we're all pretty used to being called pReVert degernate scum.

[Signe]

I know I don't mind anymore.

[Strazos]

He must have been pissed when I tried to whack him in M II:TW.

Ho Ho! 

[CmdrSlack]

Religion is the bad kind of silly. Stop it, already.

Way to contribute to the thread, hoss. 

Edit -- quotes are hard

ETA -- Just so I actually contribute and whatnot....I don't see the big deal.  The Pope (who is kind of a crap Pope) has said, "Hey, aiming violent games and shit at kids ain't cool.  Cut that out."  It's kind of hard to refute.  Kids are curious about games.  People with kids should probably keep an eye on what their kids do.  At the same time, people who aim that kind of shit at kids aren't doing anyone any good.  Meh.  I know games are a sacred cow and all, but I really don't see the big deal.  If you're not Catholic, why should it matter what the Pope says?  Do the Catholics have some kind of stranglehold on the games industry of which I'm unaware?

Regardless of whether the Church has issues (and it does), his point is valid.  People who make violent/sexual games AND market them to kids are shitty people.  See, part one of that statement needs part two to equal "shitty person."  So, yeah.  The knees can stop jerking.

[stray]

I'm having a hard time thinking of one potentially "evil" or "corrupting" game that's targetted at kids though.

Even the kids games that some might consider excessively violent (say, the Ratchet and Clank series), by virtue of them have weapons and shooting, are still pretty innocent. It's very cartoony, in a Wile E Coyote way.

Sure, instilling in children the idea that beating on a bad guy with a Plasma Whip isn't exactly what St. Francis would do, but c'mon...It's not GTA or Soldier of Fortune, and those games were never meant for kids anyways.

[WindupAtheist]

Who gives a fuck what the pope says about anything?  Fuck him and his "quickly becoming strictly Third World" religion.

[CmdrSlack]

I'm having a hard time thinking of one potentially "evil" or "corrupting" game that's targetted at kids though.

Even the kids games that some might consider excessively violent (say, the Ratchet and Clank series), by virtue of them have weapons and shooting, are still pretty innocent. It's very cartoony, in a Wile E Coyote way.

Sure, instilling in children the idea that beating on a bad guy with a Plasma Whip isn't exactly what St. Francis would do, but c'mon...It's not GTA or Soldier of Fortune, and those games were never meant for kids anyways.

Well, meant for and marketed to are two different things.  I don't particularly think that they were marketed to kids but I can see how someone NOT a gamer would see it as such.  (Kids like games, violent games appeal to kids (not just video), all games are at the same store, ergo marketed to kids.)  Also, keep in mind that this dude is from Germany...and they have a bit of a hangup about violent games over there right now.  So this is also likely a cultural difference.  I just don't see the big newsflash, I guess.  He's an old dude saying that something he's not entirely informed about is uncool.  He's partially right and partially off-base.  Whether he's the Pope or a politician or a crazy old coot on his front porch shouldn't matter all that much, IMO.

[stray]

Whether he's the Pope or a politician or a crazy old coot on his front porch shouldn't matter all that much, IMO.

I think he falls under the category of all three  :-D.

[CmdrSlack]

Whether he's the Pope or a politician or a crazy old coot on his front porch shouldn't matter all that much, IMO.

I think he falls under the category of all three  :-D.

I'd tend to agree, but I've been non-thrilled with this guy since he was chosen to replace JPII, who was rather kickass, IMO.

[stray]

I don't think he's Palpatine or anything, but yeah, JPII was much more....Hmm, what's the best word? Millenial? Progressive? Not completely out of touch? Heh.

I mean, he was an ex actor, and very well read. Just being in touch with the arts like that, no matter how insignificant, says something. And he wasn't archaic about it either. Like the Dalai Lama, supposedly he was a big fan of cinema and Hollywood too.

[Calantus]

ETA -- Just so I actually contribute and whatnot....I don't see the big deal.  The Pope (who is kind of a crap Pope) has said, "Hey, aiming violent games and shit at kids ain't cool.  Cut that out."  It's kind of hard to refute.  Kids are curious about games.  People with kids should probably keep an eye on what their kids do.  At the same time, people who aim that kind of shit at kids aren't doing anyone any good.  Meh.  I know games are a sacred cow and all, but I really don't see the big deal.  If you're not Catholic, why should it matter what the Pope says?  Do the Catholics have some kind of stranglehold on the games industry of which I'm unaware?

Regardless of whether the Church has issues (and it does), his point is valid.  People who make violent/sexual games AND market them to kids are shitty people.  See, part one of that statement needs part two to equal "shitty person."  So, yeah.  The knees can stop jerking.

Actually he doesn't say that at all. From the vatican's website (also here, but I checked the website to be sure):

Any trend to produce programmes and products - including animated films and video games - which in the name of entertainment exalt violence and portray anti-social behaviour or the trivialization of human sexuality is a perversion, all the more repulsive when these programmes are directed at children and adolescents.

You will notice that the bold part added by myself (EDIT: as in, the bold was added by me, the actual words were already there) is in addition to the statement of perversion. The "fact" that they are "directed at children and adolescents" only adds to the perversion. He also didn't specify marketing, just that they are "directed". I'd like to see him come up with a so called perverted game that is, you know, actually directed at kids. I know when I was beating hookers to death with a baseball bat in GTA3 my character wasn't an 8 year old (but I couldn't sleep with them until GTA:SA, because sleeping with a hooker and then killing her for the cash is a SEX CRIME and thus not allowed in Australia... or was, whatever, I can't be expected to understand stupidity).

[CmdrSlack]

Oh wow.  You caught me.  A man whose job it is to teach tolerance, love and peace has a problem with violence and sex being sold as entertianment.  Stop ye olde presses.

Newsflash, he even hates it more when it's directed at kids and adolescents.  Adolescents, you know, teens....the kind of people who play console games a ton.  Wow.  Shocker.

This is such non-news I don't even know why it got its own thread.

[taolurker]

Oh wow.  You caught me.  A man whose job it is to teach tolerance, love and peace has a problem with violence and sex being sold as entertianment.  Stop ye olde presses.

Newsflash, he even hates it more when it's directed at kids and adolescents.  Adolescents, you know, teens....the kind of people who play console games a ton.  Wow.  Shocker.

I actually had a laugh when I first heard the newsperson say behind me the Pope saying things about perversion. This of course was the message that was appropriate, from the Pope celebrating Communications Day in Europe, but what is the shocker and what makes it news is that the purile, ignorant religous types already have a confused and bias view of video gaming.

I didn't think the Pope calling it a perversion was incorrect, in fact some of the games I enjoy like FPS shooters and paganistic magic RPGs (+MMOs) are not proper for kids, but do I feel unclean or perverted for enjoying them (or R rated movies). Answer is HELLS NO!

Creating the games that fall into the category of violent or sexual may cross an imaginary line, but are they a perversion if say.. I am recreating history battling in Call of Duty 2 on the front lines of an actual violent event of our history? (or like in WayAbvPar's response about Medievil 2 Total War, and killing the Pope) Games are already having enough bad press, where the ratings and parental responsibility are what should be discussed.

So the Pope saying this to me is funny, especially when you become an observer of religion from the outside. Belief is where religion finds it's begining, and believing the media images one views(enjoys?) and not being able to seperate oneself from them, is where possibly it is a perversion. Do I need to ask forgiveness of anyone, or myself for viewing/enjoying them? I don't think so, because I'm a responsible adult.

This is such non-news I don't even know why it got its own thread.

HAHAHA Why does Vanguard deserve 3 threads (one of them with some 30 pages)?? I really think you should've kept with your original sentiment about if you're not posting something to contribute to the discussion, but that would make sense (or something). Honestly, I debated whether this should've been possibly in "Politics", but other than that, I think it's totally relevant, and freedom + speech or something.

[Samwise]

ratings and parental responsibility are what should be discussed.

The pope is discussing them -- why aren't you?

How is this common good to be protected and promoted? Educating children to be discriminating in their use of the media is a responsibility of parents, Church, and school. The role of parents is of primary importance. They have a right and duty to ensure the prudent use of the media by training the conscience of their children to express sound and objective judgments which will then guide them in choosing or rejecting programmes available (cf. Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation Familiaris Consortio, 76). In doing so, parents should have the encouragement and assistance of schools and parishes in ensuring that this difficult, though satisfying, aspect of parenting is supported by the wider community.

There are basically two main thrusts to his statement.  The first is that the people who are responsible for raising children (parents, with assistance from school and church) should keep an eye on what they're watching and playing.  The second is that the people who produce media should try to cut back a bit on glorifying sex and violence, especially if that media is likely to be picked up by children.  Many of us probably disgree with the second part of his statement, or at least view it with a concerned/skeptical eye, but is the first part that objectionable?

Note also that he aims the statement about media production at media producers, NOT governments.  Which makes it okay with me.  I don't mind in the slightest if someone verbally encourages someone to produce less violent media (even if I do personally enjoy the violent media), as long as they aren't pushing for legislation against it.

(edit) Other things that set this statement apart from the usual anti-video-game rhetoric:
1) Video games are not being picked on to the exclusion of other types of media, like movies.
2) He is not saying that all video games are violent.
3) He is not saying that all video games are marketed exclusively at children.

Compare and contrast with, say, the usual Jack Thompson tirade.

[taolurker]

When the tagline on the news ignores the obvious parental responsibility slant and only includes the single perversion of violent/sexual video games and movies, makes it a perversion of the Pope's message too. Perversion is everywhere!! UNCLEAN.

All of you who are reading this thread suffer from perversions. The intraweb R 3vil too! Ans Foosball is the debil.

Edited to clarify a pronoun and correct my perversions

[Paelos]

He's the freaking Pope.  He doesn't need a basis in scripture.

That one made me chuckle. Kudos.

[CmdrSlack]

Oh wow.  You caught me.  A man whose job it is to teach tolerance, love and peace has a problem with violence and sex being sold as entertianment.  Stop ye olde presses.

Newsflash, he even hates it more when it's directed at kids and adolescents.  Adolescents, you know, teens....the kind of people who play console games a ton.  Wow.  Shocker.

I actually had a laugh when I first heard the newsperson say behind me the Pope saying things about perversion. This of course was the message that was appropriate, from the Pope celebrating Communications Day in Europe, but what is the shocker and what makes it news is that the purile, ignorant religous types already have a confused and bias view of video gaming.

I didn't think the Pope calling it a perversion was incorrect, in fact some of the games I enjoy like FPS shooters and paganistic magic RPGs (+MMOs) are not proper for kids, but do I feel unclean or perverted for enjoying them (or R rated movies). Answer is HELLS NO!

Creating the games that fall into the category of violent or sexual may cross an imaginary line, but are they a perversion if say.. I am recreating history battling in Call of Duty 2 on the front lines of an actual violent event of our history? (or like in WayAbvPar's response about Medievil 2 Total War, and killing the Pope) Games are already having enough bad press, where the ratings and parental responsibility are what should be discussed.

So the Pope saying this to me is funny, especially when you become an observer of religion from the outside. Belief is where religion finds it's begining, and believing the media images one views(enjoys?) and not being able to seperate oneself from them, is where possibly it is a perversion. Do I need to ask forgiveness of anyone, or myself for viewing/enjoying them? I don't think so, because I'm a responsible adult.

This is such non-news I don't even know why it got its own thread.

HAHAHA Why does Vanguard deserve 3 threads (one of them with some 30 pages)?? I really think you should've kept with your original sentiment about if you're not posting something to contribute to the discussion, but that would make sense (or something). Honestly, I debated whether this should've been possibly in "Politics", but other than that, I think it's totally relevant, and freedom + speech or something.

So, basically, you're off your meds again, eh?

The man wasn't even trying to dictate rules for Catholics let alone the world.  He was expressing an opinion.  The media chose to only report one part of his opinion.  No shocker there.  So who is a bigger asshat?  Him for saying it, or you for being so knee-jerk that you assumed the two-second sound bite was the entire statement?  Games are just another boogeyman, just like heavy metal was in the 80s.  Sooner or later they'll be replaced by something else for people to worry about.  That's why this is non-news. 

As to why Vanguard got three threads, I'd assume it's because people started them.  It doesn't really mean that they're necessary.

[taolurker]

So now you want to contribute actual discussion to the thread you called not worthy of a thread? Make up you're fucking mind. And you called me psycho and off my meds over on Corpnews. Hypocrite lawyer much?

You should've just used Boog's tactic and said something about my missue of bias in my reply that I left on both forums for you.

[CmdrSlack]

So now you want to contribute actual discussion to the thread you called not worthy of a thread? Make up you're fucking mind. And you called me psycho and off my meds over on Corpnews. Hypocrite lawyer much?

You should've just used Boog's tactic and said something about my missue of bias in my reply that I left on both forums for you.

Don't you have a dev to stalk?

[Paelos]

Who would have thought a religious-toned post in the Gaming Forum would cause a flame war?

Shocked, I am. 

[Signe]

The pope is hawt.

[geldonyetich]

The headline says, "Pope decries video games, films that exalt violence, trivialize sexuality" not "The pope things moving pixels are the work of the devil."

I've been playing computer games all my life, and will probably continue to do so as long as I'm able to send the necessary nervous impulses to make this happen.

I've come to understand that sex and violence are just this: Dressing.  They don't make better games.  In terms of artistic impression, they're two very limited channels, nothing more.   

What good are they?  They seem to bring a lot of stigma down on my little obsession.  They might even promote wrongful thinking. 

No, I don't think I'll lose much sleep if games that "exalt violence" and "trivialize sexuality" are put under much heavier restrictions.